There's been some discussion on other threads about McDonalds, consumer culture, and the lack of appreciation of great art. Just got back from a trip from Germany, and I have more evidence, but first, a rather disturbing photo that I took in Thailand at a shopping Mall in Bangkok, where Ronald is offering the traditional Thai greeting gesture called the "wai", where he vaguely looks like he is praying. It's supposed to be a submissive gesture (the lower ranking person is to wai first) but I don't trust him.
(http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5070/5652639287_fc4c995e02_b.jpg)
Anyway, the old town district in Salzburg Austria, which included the birthplace of Mozart, has gotten overrun with big business over the last couple decades, and many have commented on the fact that there is a McDonald's just down the blog from Wolfgang's birthplace.
(http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5144/5653197132_3dd10c73aa_b.jpg)
The first impression is that the Mozart Conspiracy may indeed be true, but instead of being manufactured by the Jesuits or the Illuminati, it may be the fact that he was created by the McDonalds Corporation.
In order to meet the zoning laws of this district, it is necessary to have a wrought-iron rail and sign that shows the type of business. At least this McDonalds has something the others don't.
(http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5190/5653200034_6e635fec0e_z.jpg)
Finally, and perhaps the most disturbing of all, was the first sight that greeted me as I got of the train at Dachau on my way to visit the concentration camp there... You guessed it...
(http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5143/5652631381_a1228737ae_z.jpg)
You're just making me hungry.
Quote from: jowcol on April 25, 2011, 01:52:12 AM
There's been some discussion on other threads about McDonalds, consumer culture, and the lack of appreciation of great art. Just got back from a trip from Germany, and I have more evidence, but first, a rather disturbing photo that I took in Thailand at a shopping Mall in Bangkok, where Ronald is offering the traditional Thai greeting gesture called the "wai", where he vaguely looks like he is praying. It's supposed to be a submissive gesture (the lower ranking person is to wai first) but I don't trust him.
(http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5070/5652639287_fc4c995e02_b.jpg)
Haha sawadee krup Ronald! ;D ;D :D
Just for the fun of it, I made a sort of tradition on my trips to Europe to stop in for one lunch at a McDonald's. The irony was especially funny after coming from a 4-hour tour of Versailles. I didn't get the impression that the large lunch crowd was composed primarily of tourists.
"The Height Gap - Why Europeans are getting taller and taller, and Americans aren't."
http://www.newyorker.com/archive/2004/04/05/040405fa_fact
(http://www.newyorker.com/archive/2004/04/05/040405fa_fact)
The short of it; you are getting shorter because you eat crap.
At least when they take up residence in the historic parts of German cities, they are somewhat discreet (forced to be, of course)--like the McD on the Hauptmarkt in Trier.
(http://photos.imageevent.com/sgtrock/jan2011/macd_trier1.jpg)
(http://photos.imageevent.com/sgtrock/jan2011/macd_trier2.jpg)
Sarge
Quote from: The new erato on April 25, 2011, 06:43:46 AM
"The Height Gap - Why Europeans are getting taller and taller, and Americans aren't."
http://www.newyorker.com/archive/2004/04/05/040405fa_fact
(http://www.newyorker.com/archive/2004/04/05/040405fa_fact)
The short of it; you are getting shorter because you eat crap.
But we
are getting fatter, so there.
There's always that track on Uncle Meat: "The Legend of the Golden Arches"
Quote from: Sergeant Rock on April 25, 2011, 06:52:10 AM
At least when they take up residence in the historic parts of German cities, they are somewhat discrete (forced to be, of course)--like the McD on the Hauptmarkt in Trier.
As I say, I heard plenty of fluent native French speakers when I went into the one near the train station in Versailles.
Quote from: Sergeant Rock on April 25, 2011, 06:52:10 AM
At least when they take up residence in the historic parts of German cities, they are somewhat discrete (forced to be, of course)--like the McD on the Hauptmarkt in Trier.
I was surprised to see a MacDonalds in what seemed to be the prime location in Heidelberg's historic district, just facing the grandest looking Church. On the other hand, the other major church (just off the Hauptstrasse) had some sort of sex shop just across the way.
When I was there, I never went into the MacDonalds, but I did visit the Starbucks each evening, just for the satisfaction of knowing that it was my pronunciation of "blueberry muffin" that was correct. ;D
Quote from: (poco) Sforzando on April 25, 2011, 07:22:53 AM
As I say, I heard plenty of fluent native French speakers when I went into the one near the train station in Versailles.
Funny, I went into that very same McDonald's after a visit to Versailles last summer. And my experience was exactly the same.
Here in Moscow, the McD's near my office is always full. The Russian branch is managed by McDonald's Canada, and is generally considered to be of higher quality than the US version.
Quote from: Velimir on April 25, 2011, 09:52:34 AMHere in Moscow, the McD's near my office is always full. The Russian branch is managed by McDonald's Canada, and is generally considered to be of higher quality than the US version.
Higher quality? It's McDonald's! They're not serving fillet mignon. It's a fast food joint specifically designed to get people in and out the door as fast as humanly possible.
Quote from: Mirror Image on April 25, 2011, 09:56:25 AM
Higher quality? It's McDonald's! They're not serving fillet mignon. It's a fast food joint specifically designed to get people in and out the door as fast as humanly possible.
I would move to Canada though if their idea of fast food was fillet mignon! :D
The first picture is just creepy. That namaste gesture in India, at least, can carry religious overtones.
Quote from: haydnfan on April 25, 2011, 09:58:12 AM
I would move to Canada though if their idea of fast food was fillet mignon! :D
Not me, too damn cold up there.
Buffalo is Canada's Cuba.
Quote from: Apollon on April 25, 2011, 10:31:26 AM
Buffalo is Canada's Cuba.
:D Yes, that it is. I prefer a warmer climate. One where I can walk outside in the winter and not have body parts freeze within a few minutes.
Quote from: Mirror Image on April 25, 2011, 09:56:25 AM
Higher quality? It's McDonald's! They're not serving fillet mignon. It's a fast food joint specifically designed to get people in and out the door as fast as humanly possible.
Julia Child praised McDonald's fries.
Of course, she never tried them at my local branch.
McDonald's fries are salty and greasy. I like Braums, they taste fresh and either lightly fried or baked and you don't even have to wipe your hands off (or wash them) after eating.
Quote from: The new erato on April 25, 2011, 06:43:46 AM
"The Height Gap - Why Europeans are getting taller and taller, and Americans aren't."
http://www.newyorker.com/archive/2004/04/05/040405fa_fact
(http://www.newyorker.com/archive/2004/04/05/040405fa_fact)
The short of it; you are getting shorter because you eat crap.
They mainly gain sideway, i.e. getting fatter and fatter ...
Quote from: jowcol on April 25, 2011, 01:52:12 AM
There's been some discussion on other threads about McDonalds, consumer culture, and the lack of appreciation of great art.
What about the theological implications, McDonalds and the death of religion? Or McDonalds and the energy crisis? You could probably correlate the rise of fast food burger chains to the rise in autism, which means you should.
The postmodern angle is worth investigating, too. McDonalds fries are terrible, though sadly it's not objectively true that they are, just a social construct.
Quote from: drogulus on April 25, 2011, 10:30:58 PM
McDonalds fries are terrible, though sadly it's not objectively true that they are, just a social construct.
Their smoothies are fucking awesome though! 8)
Quote from: Philoctetes on April 25, 2011, 10:35:44 PM
Their smoothies are fucking awesome though! 8)
Thus, if the capitalist paradigm of expression holds, we have to choose between socialist realism and subsemiotic nationalism. Any number of deconstructions concerning the bridge between sexual identity and class may be found.
Quote from: drogulus on April 25, 2011, 10:30:58 PM
What about the theological implications, McDonalds and the death of religion? Or McDonalds and the energy crisis? You could probably correlate the rise of fast food burger chains to the rise in autism, which means you should.
The postmodern angle is worth investigating, too. McDonalds fries are terrible, though sadly it's not objectively true that they are, just a social construct.
(http://www.venganza.org/images/PiratesVsTemp.png)
That's the spirit. (http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/Smileys/classic/smiley.gif)
If civilization is dying I'm going to get all the swag and quarter pounders with no cheese I can.
Aarrggh!!
You do have to put out of your mind how the beef is processed (http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/31/us/31meat.html). Even knowing this, I still get a burger at a drive thru very occaisonally.
Quote from: drogulus on April 26, 2011, 02:00:57 AM
That's the spirit. (http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/Smileys/classic/smiley.gif)
If civilization is dying I'm going to get all the swag and quarter pounders with no cheese I can.
Aarrggh!!
(http://svott.com/mt/archives/pacman_piechart.jpg)
Quote from: Sergeant Rock on April 25, 2011, 06:52:10 AM
At least when they take up residence in the historic parts of German cities, they are somewhat discrete (forced to be, of course)--like the McD on the Hauptmarkt in Trier.
Well, maybe those bloody capitalists are ashamed of trading in Karl Marx's native town? ;D :P
I thought the topic was about this incident in Baltimore, one of America's most violent cities:
http://www.wbaltv.com/news/27640819/detail.html (http://www.wbaltv.com/news/27640819/detail.html)
A McDonald's employee recorded the assault, rather than trying to stop it. Other employees watched and did nothing, except for giving the advice to the attackers that the police were coming, and they should leave quickly.
YouTube is ablaze with all kinds of horrible McDs fights and wotnot. An owner was run over when they had their 50,000 hiring thing the other day. Soon the cities will explode.
I can't remember if this was mcd or bk but there was a true story of someone calling 911 because they got her order wrong! :D
http://www.youtube.com/v/GfKhWzNXdEw
http://consumerist.com/2009/03/mcdonalds-apologizes-to-911-nugget-lady.html
haha! thanks Lethe, hilarious to hear the conversation. :D
This is also a classic-- check out the hair pulling. WHat has NOT been mentioned to date that the other occupant in the car was none other than "Cholesterol Karl Henning"....
http://www.youtube.com/v/lVH_Gm4fXtg
Quote from: Lethe Dmitriyevich Shostakovich on April 26, 2011, 11:17:22 AM
http://www.youtube.com/v/GfKhWzNXdEw
http://consumerist.com/2009/03/mcdonalds-apologizes-to-911-nugget-lady.html
Kyrie eleison . . . .
Quote from: jowcol on April 26, 2011, 11:30:31 AM
This is also a classic-- check out the hair pulling.
People in Ohio normally are so friendly.
There was also a well-publicized incident when a profession athlete assaulted a Taco Bel employee in Los Angeles in a dispute over a Chalupa, as I recall.
Quote from: jowcol on April 26, 2011, 11:30:31 AM
This is also a classic-- check out the hair pulling. WHat has NOT been mentioned to date that the other occupant in the car was none other than "Cholesterol Karl Henning"....
http://www.youtube.com/v/lVH_Gm4fXtg
Good god, is that what passes for a newsreader nowadays? He sounds like he can barely keep up with his script :) Thanks for the link though, that footage is hilarious :D
Quote from: jowcol on April 26, 2011, 11:30:31 AM
. . . What has NOT been mentioned to date that the other occupant in the car was none other than "Cholesterol Karl Henning"....
I'm not telling what I gave her to smash the window, either.
Quote from: Apollon on April 26, 2011, 11:38:07 AM
I'm not telling what I gave her to smash the window, either.
Police found a LeBlanc B-flat clarinet mouthpiece at the scene (with residues of "special sauce" on the reed).
Quote from: jowcol on April 26, 2011, 11:30:31 AM
This is also a classic-- check out the hair pulling. WHat has NOT been mentioned to date that the other occupant in the car was none other than "Cholesterol Karl Henning"....
What is McDonalds putting in those Chicken McNuggets? Crack?
Quote from: Daverz on April 26, 2011, 11:46:58 AM
What is McDonalds putting in those Chicken McNuggets? Crack?
Well, they do put caffeine in the hamburger buns.
Chicken McCrackets!
Taking a step back, who would have thought that the only thing required to destroy civilization is a cheap hamburger?
Quote from: Lethe Dmitriyevich Shostakovich on April 26, 2011, 11:37:02 AM
Good god, is that what passes for a newsreader nowadays? He sounds like he can barely keep up with his script :) Thanks for the link though, that footage is hilarious :D
He sounds like I've always imagined Sean would sound... ::)
8)
Quote from: Apollon on April 26, 2011, 11:38:07 AM
I'm not telling what I gave her to smash the window, either.
Atonal honking does drive some people to madness. ;D
Quote from: Gurnatron5500 on April 26, 2011, 12:22:36 PM
He sounds like I've always imagined Sean would sound... ::)
8)
Now I involuntarily thought of Sean saying in that relaxed voice "I rogered a few gals in Thailand, I recommend it if you get the chance."
the horror the horror
Quote from: Il Barone Scarpia on April 26, 2011, 11:42:24 AM
Police found a LeBlanc B-flat clarinet mouthpiece at the scene (with residues of "special sauce" on the reed).
I never play a LeBlanc! (Which I suppose does not mean that I could not have furnished a LeBlanc assault clarinet . . . .)
Quote from: Apollon on April 26, 2011, 12:55:01 PM
I never play a LeBlanc! (Which I suppose does not mean that I could not have furnished a LeBlanc assault clarinet . . . .)
You may not play a LeBlanc, but I'm sure hoods like you carry a "throw down".
You are in beyond your depth, and it's COMPLETELY Transparent.
You need to reach back into your past, and remember the first tone you ever made on you clarinet sounded like
pffft!
So what exactly is the "death of civilization" mentioned in the subject?
Quote from: The Six on April 26, 2011, 07:50:38 PM
So what exactly is the "death of civilization" mentioned in the subject?
E. Coli?
Quote from: The Six on April 26, 2011, 07:50:38 PM
So what exactly is the "death of civilization" mentioned in the subject?
(http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/Smileys/classic/huh.gif)
(http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/Smileys/classic/evil.gif)
You missed it, it's dead already. That last corn dog you ate killed it. Are you happy now, you selfish bastard?
That's a good question. Does anyone know the answer? (http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/Smileys/classic/angel.gif)
Quote from: The Six on April 26, 2011, 07:50:38 PM
So what exactly is the "death of civilization" mentioned in the subject?
The "McDonald's" theme had shown on as tangents on a couple of other threads-- I figured I'd move it here. But you are right, there was definitely a lot of hype in the title.
If I was in the USA, I'd definitely avoid eating any food made by McDonald's altogether. A couple of years back I read the book Fast Food Nation which exposed many disturbing facts, in particular the unhygienic practices in American abbatoirs. The book was published about 10 years ago, so (some?) things might have changed in terms of regulating the industry. I haven't updated my knowledge of that. At least here in Australia, we have quite stringent food production and handling laws. So in this country, I feel safe eating at McDonald's, but I only do it once in a blue moon. The popularity of McDonald's seems to have waned here over the past 10 years. They even had to close down a shop in Oxford Street (the gay district) because of tough competition from family owned eateries and the like in the area. As a kind of response to this, Macca's have introduced "healthy options" such as wraps, salads, yoghurts, etc. Some stores also have a "McCafe" attached. If these kinds of trends continue, McDonald's might not even be selling French Fries and hamburgers within the next decade. Consumers are being lured by other options that are just as cheap and healthier, and many of them already don't eat the (former) McDonald's standard fare when they go to a McDonald's restaurant...
Are you talking about the meat packing industries? I think they're still bad over here (in the US). As far as McD adding healthy options, that's not specific to your local area, it was a global change to the menus in the wake of supersize me.
Quote from: haydnfan on April 29, 2011, 05:56:56 AMit was a global change to the menus in the wake of supersize me.
Really? The movie had that much influence? I would have thought it was the lawsuits, pressure from various special interest groups (er, um, public interest groups), and the attendant bad press, rather than that movie which was seen by pretty much no one. (And it wasn't very entertaining or insightful to boot.) Well, that and the need for McDonald's to offer a variety of new menu options to stay competitive, which may mean healthier fare.
Quote from: Sid on April 28, 2011, 10:37:31 PM
If I was in the USA, I'd definitely avoid eating any food made by McDonald's altogether. A couple of years back I read the book Fast Food Nation which exposed many disturbing facts, in particular the unhygienic practices in American abbatoirs. The book was published about 10 years ago, so (some?) things might have changed in terms of regulating the industry. I haven't updated my knowledge of that. At least here in Australia, we have quite stringent food production and handling laws. So in this country, I feel safe eating at McDonald's, but I only do it once in a blue moon. The popularity of McDonald's seems to have waned here over the past 10 years. They even had to close down a shop in Oxford Street (the gay district) because of tough competition from family owned eateries and the like in the area. As a kind of response to this, Macca's have introduced "healthy options" such as wraps, salads, yoghurts, etc. Some stores also have a "McCafe" attached. If these kinds of trends continue, McDonald's might not even be selling French Fries and hamburgers within the next decade. Consumers are being lured by other options that are just as cheap and healthier, and many of them already don't eat the (former) McDonald's standard fare when they go to a McDonald's restaurant...
I don't recall reading of any cases of people getting sick eating at MacDonalds, the food is mostly pre-prepared and the people working at the store don't have that much contact with it. I can't say MacDonalds food is very good, but it always amuses me that people portray them as though they are worse than Nazis.
Quote from: Todd on April 29, 2011, 06:51:50 AM
Really? The movie had that much influence? I would have thought it was the lawsuits, pressure from various special interest groups (er, um, public interest groups), and the attendant bad press, rather than that movie which was seen by pretty much no one. (And it wasn't very entertaining or insightful to boot.) Well, that and the need for McDonald's to offer a variety of new menu options to stay competitive, which may mean healthier fare.
Alot of the events you're pointing at happened right after the movie. You say correlation only, I say causation. That movie that you said nobody saw was completely rented out of the local Hollywood video back then for several weeks. It seems as if everyone was talking about it, and it brought so much attention to Morgan Spurlock that he landed his own tv show. To say that it had no influence is disingenuous.
Quote from: Il Barone Scarpia on April 29, 2011, 06:55:01 AM
I don't recall reading of any cases of people getting sick eating at MacDonalds, the food is mostly pre-prepared and the people working at the store don't have that much contact with it. I can't say MacDonalds food is very good, but it always amuses me that people portray them as though they are worse than Nazis.
That's what is always so fun about browsing the non-fiction area in my local library. It's filled with tawdry, highly opinionated books that try to convince you that the sky is falling! :D I wonder if people get their kicks out of reading those books the same way others do with pulp fiction.
Quote from: haydnfan on April 29, 2011, 07:00:56 AM
Alot of the events you're pointing at happened right after the movie. You say correlation only, I say causation. That movie that you said nobody saw was completely rented out of the local Hollywood video back then for several weeks. It seems as if everyone was talking about it, and it brought so much attention to Morgan Spurlock that he landed his own tv show. To say that it had no influence is disingenuous.
Yes, I heard about the movie, I think the media buzz was a bigger effect than the movie itself. Supposedly there is a scene where Spudloch's doctor tells him that if he doesn't stop eating at MacDonalds he will die. Seems like there should be a lot more dead people if that were possible. There were several films made afterwards where people made the same experiment and were just fine, one was called "Me and Micky-D" I think.
Yeah what happened in the movie was silly. I'm not defending it as a hard hitting documentary, just pointing that it had an effect even if only from buzz.
Quote from: haydnfan on April 29, 2011, 07:00:56 AMAlot of the events you're pointing at happened right after the movie. You say correlation only, I say causation. That movie that you said nobody saw was completely rented out of the local Hollywood video back then for several weeks. It seems as if everyone was talking about it, and it brought so much attention to Morgan Spurlock that he landed his own tv show. To say that it had no influence is disingenuous.
To say it had no influence is disingenuous? Well, I'd have to say that claiming that it had quite the impact you state is rather exaggerated. Contrary to what you say, everyone was not talking about it. Everyone was not renting it. And how could they? Video stores didn't stock very many copies.
It was a small movie with a small audience, at the theaters and on video.
McDonald's started to phase out supersize meals shortly before the movie came out (check the dates), and while you may want to attribute that to the movie being released and/or pre-release buzz, the reality of lawsuits and bad press had been around for several years. Spurlock was late to the party and capitalized on the situation. That he got a TV show means precisely nothing. Maybe his movie was the straw that broke the camel's back, but I wouldn't even credit it with that. Tiny documentaries have nowhere near the influence their fans want them to.
Quote from: Il Barone Scarpia on April 29, 2011, 06:55:01 AMthe food is mostly pre-prepared and the people working at the store don't have that much contact with it.
They have some. I worked at McDonald's as a teeny-bopper, and while almost all of the food is at least partly prepped, there's always contact of some sort. A particularly clumsy or mean-spirited worker could add a little extra something to the menu. For instance, during a lunch rush, I remember watching a
manager accidentally drop a burger patty on the floor, pick it up, wipe it off, re-cook it for a few seconds, and plop it on a burger to go out the drive-thru. Now that's good eating. Hey, even knowing this kind of stuff goes on, I still eat there every once in a while.
It is conceivable that someone could get sick that way, but not from the meat they use and cook. They cook all meat to the point that no bacteria humans come into contact with could live. I've yet to hear about or read about illness attributed to the meat they serve. E coli infected vegetables, yes, but not their meat.
I'm not an expert on their supply chain – hell, I don't know anything about it – but I'd be interested to know if McDonald's uses only locally (ie, nationally) produced meat in each country, or if they rely on a global supply chain that means sometimes the consumer is getting meat from some evil and/or sloppy foreign land. I would not be surprised if it's the latter, though it may not be.
Quote from: Il Barone Scarpia on April 26, 2011, 11:49:10 AM
Well, they do put caffeine in the hamburger buns.
Is that why I feel tired after eating a hamburger? Caffeine makes me sleepy (then again, so does everything)...
Quote from: Greg on April 29, 2011, 07:25:40 AM
. . . (then again, so does everything)...
Not Xenakis!
Quote from: Greg on April 29, 2011, 07:25:40 AM
Caffeine makes me sleepy depressed (then again, so does everything)...
There fixed that for you. ;D
Cancel that armadillo burger.
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/28/health/28leprosy.html
Quote from: Apollon on April 29, 2011, 07:36:53 AM
Not Xenakis!
Quote from: haydnfan on April 29, 2011, 07:37:46 AM
There fixed that for you. ;D
Good point, both of you. That's why I listen to Meshuggah in my car before work, and I think Xenakis would have the same effect. Both music has the same sense of overwhelming, destructive power, which is the only thing that can charge me up instantly (other than the usual sleeping for 10 hours and staring at the computer for 4 hours in the morning).
Quote from: madeofmusic on April 29, 2011, 07:56:42 AM
Cancel that armadillo burger.
Would you like leprosy with that?
Quote from: Greg on April 29, 2011, 07:57:28 AM
That's why I listen to Meshuggah ...
I've tried and I've tried and I've tried to like extreme metal but the vocals ruin the music for me.
I give up.
And this has nothing to do with Mickey D's.
Once in a while you hear about people getting sick from food. There's a recall and then everything is fine. I haven't heard about anything like "these burgers make you sick and
they refuse to fix it!". Wouldn't that be a big story, with lots of dead bodies or at least people stacked up in emergency rooms? I would think so.
Quote from: haydnfan on April 29, 2011, 07:10:26 AM
Yeah what happened in the movie was silly. I'm not defending it as a hard hitting documentary, just pointing that it had an effect even if only from buzz.
Maybe it's a metaphor, for.....something or other. Let's not be fundamentalists about it. (http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/Smileys/classic/smiley.gif)
I'm actually very disgusted with the state of food production in the US and in the world. To much unsustainable practice, too many chemicals, to many anti-biotics, too much processed, junk food. I read somewhere today that for the first time, public health officials expect young people in the US today to have a shorter life expectancy than their parents, largely due to obesity-related health problems. Micky-D is a small part of the problem.
I posted this link about ammonia-processed "pink slime" earlier, but maybe people missed it:
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/31/us/31meat.html (http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/31/us/31meat.html)
Bon appetit.
Quote from: Daverz on April 29, 2011, 05:12:02 PM
I posted this link about ammonia-processed "pink slime" earlier, but maybe people missed it:
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/31/us/31meat.html (http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/31/us/31meat.html)
Bon appetit.
Yes, that is exactly what I am talking about. Your typical American will pay large amounts of money to have a uselessly enormous vehicle which guzzles gas, to have a uselessly enormous, poorly insulated styrofoam house that costs a fortune to heat and cool, and eat hamburgers that are unfit to made into dog food.
Quote from: Il Barone Scarpia on April 29, 2011, 06:55:01 AM
I don't recall reading of any cases of people getting sick eating at MacDonalds, the food is mostly pre-prepared and the people working at the store don't have that much contact with it. I can't say MacDonalds food is very good, but it always amuses me that people portray them as though they are worse than Nazis.
There were a few cases outlined in the book that I read & was talking about above (
Fast Food Nation by investigative journalist Eric Schlosser) of people dying from e-coli caused by beef patties that were infected at the time of slaughter (i.e. in the abbatoirs). I don't think that it was a burger bought in McDonald's, it was another similar fast food chain. But basically it doesn't matter what chain you eat in, most of their meat is sourced from the same abbatoirs (the USA doesn't really have a free market capitalist system, it's more a system of big monopolies dominating the market - & sadly we seem to be going the same way here in Australia). Mind you (as I wrote above), this book was written 10 or more years back, so some reforms to the system of slaughter and processing of meat may have happened in the USA since then. What the writer basically argued is that hygiene was very lax in USA abbatoirs, because they processed huge amounts of beef cattle per hour compard to Europe (where they process less, but the quality of the final product is much better and safer). A lot of the workers in USA abbatoirs, according to the book, are virtually illiterate and many of them are illegal immigrants from Mexico and other places south of the border. The work that the trade unions did earlier in the century to ensure not only the safety of employees but also a high quality end product was eroded by changes to law (by successive governments who were influenced by the big monopolies). Basically, companies like McDonald's are not very good to workers, they are against any reforms which would potentially effect their bottom line, and things like environmental sustainablity are at the bottom of their list of priorities (but there has been much PR & spin doctoring since to cajole the consumer into believing otherwise). It's an intersting book, and may well have been updated since the original edition from the late '90's which I read a few years back...
Quote from: Sid on April 29, 2011, 10:43:56 PM
There were a few cases outlined in the book that I read & was talking about above (Fast Food Nation by investigative journalist Eric Schlosser) of people dying from e-coli caused by beef patties that were infected at the time of slaughter (i.e. in the abbatoirs). I don't think that it was a burger bought in McDonald's, it was another similar fast food chain. But basically it doesn't matter what chain you eat in, most of their meat is sourced from the same abbatoirs (the USA doesn't really have a free market capitalist system, it's more a system of big monopolies dominating the market - & sadly we seem to be going the same way here in Australia). Mind you (as I wrote above), this book was written 10 or more years back, so some reforms to the system of slaughter and processing of meat may have happened in the USA since then. What the writer basically argued is that hygiene was very lax in USA abbatoirs, because they processed huge amounts of beef cattle per hour compard to Europe (where they process less, but the quality of the final product is much better and safer). A lot of the workers in USA abbatoirs, according to the book, are virtually illiterate and many of them are illegal immigrants from Mexico and other places south of the border. The work that the trade unions did earlier in the century to ensure not only the safety of employees but also a high quality end product was eroded by changes to law (by successive governments who were influenced by the big monopolies). Basically, companies like McDonald's are not very good to workers, they are against any reforms which would potentially effect their bottom line, and things like environmental sustainablity are at the bottom of their list of priorities (but there has been much PR & spin doctoring since to cajole the consumer into believing otherwise). It's an intersting book, and may well have been updated since the original edition from the late '90's which I read a few years back...
E.coli in hamburger meat is not a problem, our guts are full of E.coli, and if the meat is cooked it will have been effectively sterilized anyway. No piece of meat that comes out of a meat packing plant is ever going to be free of E.coli. The problem is that there are a few rare, exotic strains of E.coli that produce toxins and if one of these gets into the beef you can be in trouble if the thing isn't thoroughly cooked or because even if the E.coli. is killed by the cooking the toxin might still be there. This is a rare event and I can see that it would be difficult to entirely prevent it from happening. The last case where some people got sick from hamburger a hug amount of meat was ordered recalled by the USDA and the company that supplied it went out of business as a result, so there are other incentives for avoiding this. The problem is almost entirely limited to cheap hamburger meat, and can be avoided by buying hamburger meat that is ground in the store from a recognizable cut of beef, rather than from that garbage that is ground at the plant from scraps.
My problem with US meat production is excessive use of hormones, anti-biotics, and inappropriate feed (i.e., grain fed cattle).
Quote from: Il Barone Scarpia on April 30, 2011, 07:19:57 AM
My problem with US meat production is excessive use of hormones
That is definitely the creepiest thing. US politics are obsessed with preventing children maturing too soon, and yet pumps their food full of growth hormones and substances which makes them look 1-2 years older than an equivelent European ???
Quote from: Lethe Dmitriyevich Shostakovich on April 30, 2011, 09:38:29 AM
That is definitely the creepiest thing. US politics are obsessed with preventing children maturing too soon, and yet pumps their food full of growth hormones and substances which makes them look 1-2 years older than an equivelent European ???
Certainly not 1-2 years older than an equivalent Dutch person, though?...
Hehe, height isn't everything :)
Quote from: Lethe Dmitriyevich Shostakovich on April 30, 2011, 09:38:29 AM
That is definitely the creepiest thing. US politics are obsessed with preventing children maturing too soon, and yet pumps their food full of growth hormones and substances which makes them look 1-2 years older than an equivelent European ???
My vote goes for the ammonia treatment as the creepiest thing along with cheap corn feed for all animals whether it's appropriate or not (kind of go hand in hand). I guess I'm weird, but I just don't really care about the use of hormones.
As a former biochemist friend of mine often says when these kinds of things come up in conversation - "We're living in a chemical soup"...
Quote from: haydnfan on May 02, 2011, 12:55:06 PM
My vote goes for the ammonia treatment as the creepiest thing along with cheap corn feed for all animals whether it's appropriate or not (kind of go hand in hand). I guess I'm weird, but I just don't really care about the use of hormones.
You may change your mind when you start growing female breasts. ;D
Quote from: Il Barone Scarpia on May 02, 2011, 09:44:31 PM
You may change your mind when you start growing female breasts. ;D
Lol...good one Scarpia! :P