I finally have an opportunity to take a vacation in Europe, this August. I have at least three friends up for the experience, but none of us have ever been in Europe.
Any recommendations as far as where to go, what country to visit?
I always wanted to go to Paris but I hear it's very expensive there. I am not interested in expensive places (expensive places are some of the most boring places anyway). So any ideas would be much appreciated.
Prague. Not expensive at all (if you stay clear of the obvious tourist traps in the centre) and gorgeous in late summer. Although being born here, I might be a little biased.
Since you stated elsewhere that Oregon has no public transportation, cafes or bookstores, you may wish to experience a city that has public transportation, cafes and bookstores. In Europe, that's almost all of them :D
Seriously - you may want to refine your question a bit. As it stands, you'll probably get recs for all the standard places to visit. And if you really always wanted to go to Paris, why let money get in the way? How many times in your life will you have the opportunity?
Quote from: Rinaldo on May 29, 2011, 03:28:04 AM
Prague. Not expensive at all (if you stay clear of the obvious tourist traps in the centre) and gorgeous in late summer. Although being born here, I might be a little biased.
Also: some of the best musical life in Europe at reasonable cost; best beer to be found anywhere on earth; and some fascinating neighborhoods and sites away from the center.
As well as easy access to other attractions in Bohemia.
Paris is expensive, but it can also be done on the cheap if one plans well. Much of Europe itself goes on vacation in August, which can complicate things. But things like hostels, dorms, etc. can make for less expensive stays, and provide lots of new adventures. In Paris, for example, you can organize your visit around the days the museums are free (one day every month in Paris if memory serves). Sure, the lines are out the door (way out the door), but it is a cheap way to see some great museums. And some places will be free (most churches across Europe allow full or partial access for free). More expensive may be the transportation - so that is something to consider as well. See if you can get a deal on flights, hotels/hostels, rail, etc. London can be very expensive, but many locations are free entry (and Indian food can be quite reasonable, if you like that).
Cheaper countries will be the east and south - meaning Czech Republic, Croatia, Poland, etc. and Spain, Italy, and Greece. All of these places have wonderful places to visit (as do some I didn't include).
France doesn't have to mean Paris either, the south can be a nice place to go, although your French will need to be a bit better - perhaps beginning in Montpellier, then going east by way of Nîmes, across to Genoa and perhaps neighbouring Slovenia or Croatia (as ukrneal suggests).
Quote from: Lethe Dmitriyevich Shostakovich on May 29, 2011, 05:51:30 AMFrance doesn't have to mean Paris either, the south can be a nice place to go
Provence is a bliss.
Hi Sandra - how much time will you be there (i.e. Europe) and are you and friends wanting a 'whirlwind' tour of many places (like the capitals) or would you rather concentrate on one country or area(s) in one country?
My first visit was in 1971 & last in 1996 (both of those to Italy) and have made 8-9 trips to Europe; we've usually tried to concentrate on an area, e.g. the Low Countries, parts of France & Italy, Scotland/England, etc. Also keep in mind that August is a MAJOR vacation month in France, so closures are an issue, but have not been there in a while and this may have changed.
So, let us know about the questions at the top and also your own (and friends) preferences, e.g. art, wine, architecture, expense considerations, climate, water scenes, and so many other considerations - good luck on your selection(s)! :D
Quote from: Sandra on May 29, 2011, 03:03:48 AM
I am not interested in expensive places (expensive places are some of the most boring places anyway). So any ideas would be much appreciated.
Turkey.
I suggest you do some research on temperatures in August. If you are unused to heat, then some places will be out; Turkey and Greece, anywhere away from the coast in Spain. Rome is not easy in August.
Mike
American living in London reporting for duty here! I hope this handy photo thingy of pictures I've taken around Europe will help. :)
Top row: English countryside in Kent, a canal in the medieval Dutch town of Leiden, Peter Paul Rubens' garden in Antwerp
Bottom row: Hagia Sophia in Istanbul, Sagrada Familia in Barcelona, St Paul's Cathedral in London
NOTE I: The St Paul's picture comes from a private area of the cathedral, no tourists allowed, sorry :(
NOTE II: It's totally unintentional, I mean really it is, that the top row has flowers in all the pictures and the bottom row has all religious places.
NOTE III: These, aside from Hagia Sophia and Sagrada Familia, aren't really representative of the places you'd be most likely to visit if you were going to the countries they depict - instead they're just the best or most flattering pictures I've taken of each country.
NOTE IV: For food, my favorite country so far is Spain; for scenery, my favorite so far is England; for people, atmosphere, and nightlife, my favorite so far is the Netherlands; for chocolate, the best is Belgium
NOTE V: I still really want to visit Prague, Norway, Amsterdam, Paris, and Italy. I have plans to visit Poland next month. I was supposed to go to Croatia for a Mediterranean weekend recently but the volcanic ash cloud was a pretty serious threat at the time.
Venice !!!
There is no other city like it in Europe, really.
I second Prague as well.
Obviously, no classical music lover should miss Vienna. :)
And if you really want to see Paris, then go for it without hesitation.
I agree with Lethe about southern France, an area too few Americans visit but one of my favorite areas in the world. I wouldn't recommend it in August, though. It can be hell: the heat, the crowds.
I notice no one has mentioned my country (not even Brian plans on visiting Germany :( ) But that's typical. Most tourists ignore Germany, or just use it as a way to get to somewhere else. But that's okay. We don't need a bunch of foreigners cluttering up the place ;D
Sarge
Visit the Emerald Isle:
Éire.
(No explanation needed.)
(http://i53.tinypic.com/2vvuo3t.jpg)
And/or visit the Dutch Sheep Isle of Texel, part of the so-called Wadden. And yes: the skies are exactly the same as in those famous Dutch paintings ....
(http://i51.tinypic.com/auiiiv.jpg)
I quite agree that if you are a classical music fan then you should visit Vienna, Austria the classical music capital of the universe. ;D
Quote from: Sergeant Rock on May 29, 2011, 08:47:53 AM
I agree with Lethe about southern France, an area too few Americans visit but one of my favorite areas in the world. I wouldn't recommend it in August, though. It can be hell: the heat, the crowds.
I notice no one has mentioned my country (not even Brian plans on visiting Germany :( ) But that's typical. Most tourists ignore Germany, or just use it as a way to get to somewhere else. But that's okay. We don't need a bunch of foreigners cluttering up the place ;D
Sarge
I will stay in Halle, Weimar, Iphofen and Rothenburg on my way to Italy this year!
Quote from: Florestan on May 29, 2011, 08:24:31 AM
Venice !!!
There is no other city like it in Europe, really.
Yes..... but not in August!
Paris, I agree. There are good reasons that it is popular and expensive, though as pointed out there are ways of seeing it without breaking the bank.
On one trip to Paris we went to a hotel that is simply, with typical French insouciance, called l'hotel. It is on the Rue des Beaux-Arts. The pianist Gorge Bolet was born there and it was there in seeming poverty that Oscar Wilde died. It is exquisite, look up in the entrance hall and you see almost the interior of a stone beehive. I should die in such 'poverty'. He did remark there at one point.......either this wallpaper goes or I go.
We had a meal there in their restaurant. At the next table sat an exceptionally elegant Frenchwoman of a certain age who was clearly hosting the meal for her two American guests. They consisted of a fresh faced man in his middle 20s and a young teen girl. We had not been listening to them, but during a hiatus in our conversation while we were eating, I heard the young man say very confidently, " Well, I don't know
why Louis built Versailles, there is just so
much to do in Paris." I glanced across at the Frenchwoman. She looked like she had swallowed an apple whole. She stared down at the table and pretended nothing had been said.
So, there you go, Paris has been well advocated as a destination; but again, I wonder about August, much will be closed.
Mike
Quote from: Sandra on May 29, 2011, 03:03:48 AM
I finally have an opportunity to take a vacation in Europe, this August. I have at least three friends up for the experience, but none of us have ever been in Europe.
Any recommendations as far as where to go, what country to visit?
I always wanted to go to Paris but I hear it's very expensive there. I am not interested in expensive places (expensive places are some of the most boring places anyway). So any ideas would be much appreciated.
I've never been to Europe either, but since you mentioned Paris, and also since you said its too expensive, which I'm sure it is, why don't you visit another city in France? There's much more to France than Paris. There are plenty of places to see besides Paris, although I would still love to see Paris at some point as I'm so in love with the architecture, culture, and history of this city. Spain would also be on my to visit list after France. I don't have any interest in Germany, but I would love to visit Austria, especially Vienna, and I would like to see Switzerland as well.
Another idea: Helsinki. It is delightful in the summer, the Finns suddenly become an outdoor people. There is lots to see and the warm weather is quite fresh due to the proximity of the Baltic. You can sail from Helsinki 90 minutes to the ancient capital of Estonia, Tallinn. Full of history and old buildings.
There they literally had a singing revolution. When the Communist Block was disintegrating, their own government seemed set to hold onto power. Over a week or so vast crowds came onto the streets and sang traditional songs en-mass for hours on end. The crowds swelled day on day and eventually the Government capitulated. It is a wonderful story.
Mike
Quote from: Sergeant Rock on May 29, 2011, 08:47:53 AM
I notice no one has mentioned my country (not even Brian plans on visiting Germany :( ) But that's typical. Most tourists ignore Germany, or just use it as a way to get to somewhere else. But that's okay. We don't need a bunch of foreigners cluttering up the place ;D
From my experience on message boards, when a person is looking to visit "Europe" anything north of France is of limited interest or outright frowned upon ;)
I would prefer to visit somewhere like Copenhagen or Munich, as even Nîmes feels a little touristy - let alone some of the über-tourist traps in Italy - but the lack of anything "classical" may be seen as a black mark depending on what the visitor is searching for.
All we have up here is things like this:
(http://www.sailingyachts.com/scandinavia/s_lofoten.jpg)
(http://www.nordheim.nu/galleri/lofoten06/IMG_1898.jpg)
(http://www.visitnorway.com/ImageVault/Images/id_3716/conversionFormat_13/scope_0/ImageVaultHandler.aspx)
(http://jarle.objo.net/files/36%20N%C3%A6r%C3%B8yfjorden%20fr%C3%A5%20Bakkanosi.jpg)
(http://files.orbville.no/files/86/rg_1126386_m600.jpg)
Quote from: Sergeant Rock on May 29, 2011, 08:47:53 AMI notice no one has mentioned my country (not even Brian plans on visiting Germany :( ) But that's typical. Most tourists ignore Germany, or just use it as a way to get to somewhere else. But that's okay. We don't need a bunch of foreigners cluttering up the place ;D
Sarge
It's not that I wouldn't like to visit Germany, it's just that I have no interest in the country, though Berlin might be an interesting visit. I'm not saying you did this or implied this, but people can't fault others for not taking an interest in their country. I can understand why many wouldn't want to visit the United States. It's crowded. The people here, for the most part, are rude as hell. I remember going to New Orleans one time and I was treated like a second-rate citizen. I'm treated like a second-rate citizen in my own town!
Where are the smog and traffic jams? What about ATMs at every block? Such a backward place!
Just kidding. If I were to make my next trip to Europe, I'd certainly visit mostly smaller places, not major cities. I'd go to small towns and countrysides in Germany, Holland and the Czech republic, maybe Finland, and only stop by Vienna and Amsterdam for a concert. Oh, and London for an Arsenal match.
Quote from: The new erato on May 29, 2011, 09:32:51 AM
All we have up here is things like this:
(http://www.sailingyachts.com/scandinavia/s_lofoten.jpg)
(http://www.nordheim.nu/galleri/lofoten06/IMG_1898.jpg)
(http://www.visitnorway.com/ImageVault/Images/id_3716/conversionFormat_13/scope_0/ImageVaultHandler.aspx)
(http://jarle.objo.net/files/36%20N%C3%A6r%C3%B8yfjorden%20fr%C3%A5%20Bakkanosi.jpg)
(http://files.orbville.no/files/86/rg_1126386_m600.jpg)
Beautiful erato! Love those fjords! :) Norway seems like a beautiful place to me. I wouldn't mind visiting all of the Scandinavian countries.
Quote from: Mirror Image on May 29, 2011, 09:36:20 AM
I can understand why many wouldn't want to visit the United States. It's crowded.
The amount of square miles per person that the US has I would envy...
Quote from: Lethe Dmitriyevich Shostakovich on May 29, 2011, 09:48:01 AM
The amount of square miles per person that the US has I would envy...
No comment. :)
Quote from: Mirror Image on May 29, 2011, 09:40:09 AM
[....] I wouldn't mind visiting all of the Scandinavian countries.
Exactly.
Leave them stinking cities aside.
Get yer nose fresh &
Go wild in the country!
(And, just for one day, visit Stockholm's
Gamla Stan.)
Quote from: Lethe Dmitriyevich Shostakovich on May 29, 2011, 09:25:57 AM
I would prefer to visit somewhere like Copenhagen or Munich, as even Nîmes feels a little touristy - let alone some of the über-tourist traps in Italy - but the lack of anything "classical" may be seen as a black mark depending on what the visitor is searching for.
What?!
(http://mappery.com/maps/Leipzig-Bach-Tourist-Map.mediumthumb.jpg)
Quote from: Marc on May 29, 2011, 09:49:51 AM
Exactly.
Leave them stinking cities aside.
Get yer nose fresh &
Go wild in the country!
(And, just for one day, visit Stockholm's Gamla Stan.)
:P
http://www.historvius.com/features/roman-ruins-germany/
Mike
For me, the must-do places in Europe in no particular order are:
London (greatest city in the world along with New York, and I'm from Manchester, so I'm being a traitor)
Berlin (utterly fascinating city)
Barcelona (amazing architecture, great vibe)
Amsterdam (beautiful, laid back, although Muslim gangs are a problem these days)
Granada (stunning setting)
Venice (but not in August)
Rome (but not in August)
Prague (Europe's most beautiful city)
St Petersburg (unless you're squeamish about including Russia)
Second tier:
Brussels (seriously underrated)
Paris (very pretty, but my least-favourite major city)
Bruges (gorgeous)
Madrid (not a patch on Barcelona)
Ljubljana (tiny, but lovely; much nicer than Zagreb)
Copenhagen (probably the cheapest and most approachable capital in the Baltic area)
Helsinki (funky and vibrant)
Stockholm (beautiful, but expensive and forbidding)
Now, I've never been to Austria, Poland, Albania, Switzerland or Bulgaria, so I'm not dissing those countries. They may be fabulous; I can only talk about places I've been to.
Quote from: MDL on May 29, 2011, 11:41:37 AM
Europe's most beautiful city
IMO, the honor should go to
Seville.
Quote from: Lethe Dmitriyevich Shostakovich on May 29, 2011, 10:25:44 AM
I mean rotting Greek columns and such.
There are two Roman villas within a twenty minute drive from my house. The city of Trier (on the Mosel) was founded by the Romans and has Roman buildings, monuments, walls and antiquities, including two monstrous baths
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e3/Trier_Kaiserthermen_BW_1.JPG/800px-Trier_Kaiserthermen_BW_1.JPG)
a coliseum and of course the famous Porta Nigra
(http://karman.id.au/images/0217%20Porte%20Negra%201.jpg)
Sarge
Quote from: Florestan on May 29, 2011, 11:55:03 AM
IMO, the honor should go to Seville.
Seville is gorgeous, but the most beautiful? Prague, Venice, Barcelona, Granada and Bruges (and quite a few others) beat it, IMHO.
But a lot of my friends love Seville, so maybe I missed something.
Oh, forgot to mention Lisbon, which is wonderful.
Quote from: Mirror Image on May 29, 2011, 09:36:20 AM
It's not that I wouldn't like to visit Germany, it's just that I have no interest in the country, though Berlin might be an interesting visit. I'm not saying you did this or implied this, but people can't fault others for not taking an interest in their country.
I don't fault them. In fact I'm glad Germany doesn't have a tourist problem. Even the well-known places that attract some interest (like Rothenburg or Neuschwanstein or the Romantic Rhine) are seldom overrun to the extent of tourist traps in Paris and Rome and Venice. Even Berlin feels almost small town in comparison.
Sarge
Quote from: The new erato on May 29, 2011, 09:00:09 AM
I will stay in Halle, Weimar, Iphofen and Rothenburg on my way to Italy this year!
See! Proves my point. You're just passing through on the way to somewhere else ;)
Sarge
Questions that can help us:
Does anyone speak a second language?
How much walking would you want to do?
What is /are the arrival/deoarture airports?
What's the museum and cathedral tolerance?
Want to do concerts or opera? Shopping important?
There will be lots of guidebooks at Powells in Portland, Michelin Green Guides are great as are the red (one for each country, for hotel and restaurant guides)
Amiens is a useful stop in France, You can get into Paris in about 45 min by rail (the time it used to take me to get downtown by city bus), over to Rouen, Lille, and even Amsterdam I think on a fast train, or to/from London.
Pictures: Le Puy en Velay, Paris
Well all,Sandra needs to come back online to this thread and express some of her own desires and also answers to several questions that I mentioned, now a while ago. There are just too many suggestions (and granted excellent ones) for her to take in on her first trip - so need some input from the OP! Dave :D
Had a fab time in Romania in 2008; it's not in the euro zone, so it's quite cheap. Brasov in particular was lovely. The Romanians were the warmest, gentlest people I've encountered in Eastern Europe... yes, I'm making sweeping generalisations, but I can only comment on my own personal experience, not what the PC police tell me to say.
Quote from: The new erato on May 29, 2011, 09:32:51 AM
All we have up here is things like this:
(http://www.sailingyachts.com/scandinavia/s_lofoten.jpg)
(http://www.nordheim.nu/galleri/lofoten06/IMG_1898.jpg)
(http://www.visitnorway.com/ImageVault/Images/id_3716/conversionFormat_13/scope_0/ImageVaultHandler.aspx)
(http://jarle.objo.net/files/36%20N%C3%A6r%C3%B8yfjorden%20fr%C3%A5%20Bakkanosi.jpg)
(http://files.orbville.no/files/86/rg_1126386_m600.jpg)
I visited these places back in the early 90's.
Quote from: MDL on May 29, 2011, 02:12:22 PM
[....] The Romanians were the warmest, gentlest people I've encountered in Eastern Europe... [....]
No personal experiences here, but I've heard that before! :)
Quote from: Mirror Image on May 29, 2011, 09:36:20 AM
I can understand why many wouldn't want to visit the United States. It's crowded.
You don't travel much do you? :D It's crowded on the coasts. There are hundreds and hundreds of miles of sparsely populated land sandwiching those two extremes. I've lived in places where you could drive for hours without seeing a soul. :)
Malta, Cyprus, Iceland, San Marino, Andorra, Luxembourg, Faroe Islands
Again, neither of the first two in August. But our OP seems to have gone shy. All this advice poured out. Perhaps we should have a general travel advice thread.
Mike
Wow! I logged on hoping to get one or two answers here and I got three pages of them! Thank you so much for the wonderful suggestions, guys!
I was already leaning towards Eastern Europe and your posts made me narrow down on my choices.
For far, I am considering Romania, Slovakia, Poland and Italy. Because the cities in Western Europe are way to similar to the cities in US, Eastern Europe promises more experiences. My friends think the same too.
We're planning to leave on the last week of August and stay for 3 weeks and we'd prefer to stay in one country and experience it more deeply, rather than travel all through Europe and torture ourselves with flashes of quick memories.
Quote from: knight66 on May 29, 2011, 09:56:33 PM
But our OP seems to have gone shy. All this advice poured out. Perhaps we should have a general travel advice thread.
Mike
It's amazing how we've become accustomed to being online 24/7. I posted this last night and logged back on today. ;D
Quote from: Sandra on May 29, 2011, 10:31:33 PM
Wow! I logged on hoping to get one or two answers here and I got three pages of them! Thank you so much for the wonderful suggestions, guys!
I was already leaning towards Eastern Europe and your posts made me narrow down on my choices.
For far, I am considering Romania, Slovakia, Poland and Italy. Because the cities in Western Europe are way to similar to the cities in US, Eastern Europe promises more experiences. My friends think the same too.
We're planning to leave on the last week of August and stay for 3 weeks and we'd prefer to stay in one country and experience it more deeply, rather than travel all through Europe and torture ourselves with flashes of quick memories.
Italy seems the most desirable place in my opinion as there's so much history and beautiful architecture there and not to mention the food!
Quote from: Sandra on May 29, 2011, 10:31:33 PM
For far, I am considering Romania, Slovakia, Poland and Italy. Because the cities in Western Europe are way to similar to the cities in US, Eastern Europe promises more experiences. My friends think the same too.
We're planning to leave on the last week of August and stay for 3 weeks and we'd prefer to stay in one country and experience it more deeply,
Based on your stated criteria, I'll reiterate my recommendation for the Czech Republic - not just because of Prague, but also because it's compact, easy to get to a variety of other nice attractions in the country (spa towns, castles, well-preserved small towns, mountains and other nature), is still quite cheap, and has probably the best-developed tourist infrastructure of the post-communist countries. The only thing it lacks is a seacoast.
Quote from: Coopmv on May 29, 2011, 02:17:11 PM
I visited these places back in the early 90's.
Is that you in the last photo?
Sandra, Congrats on having rather more to do than sit on line here. I mean it.
Not sure that I agree that Western European cities look so much like the US; many have buildings 800 to 1000 years old. But as you can't go everywhere, then somewhere in Eastern Europe will be just as interesing and not as hot as Southern Europe.
Mike
Quote from: Velimir on May 29, 2011, 03:41:14 AM
Since you stated elsewhere that Oregon has no public transportation, cafes or bookstores, you may wish to experience a city that has public transportation, cafes and bookstores. In Europe, that's almost all of them :D
Yes. That's a big consideration. I want to know what it feels like to not have a car and still be able to go to places.
Ok, Prague sounds interesting. How about Bratislava?
Also, what would you guys recommend as far as places to stay?
I have been told by many people who regularly travel that getting a hotel room is not nearly as interesting and exciting as renting a guest-house. The closer you are to the locals, the more you'll learn about them, see how they live, what they eat and drink. That does sound fun too. If anyone has had such an experience in Eastern Europe, I'll be happy to know how it went.
FYI rail passes purchase in North America often give you great savings. Here's a Czech link
http://www.myczechrepublic.com/czech-trains.html
Quote from: knight66 on May 29, 2011, 10:43:33 PM
Not sure that I agree that Western European cities look so much like the US; many have buildings 800 to 1000 years old. But as you can't go everywhere, then somewhere in Eastern Europe will be just as interesing and not as hot as Southern Europe.
Mike
Yes, but if you're up for some exotic new experience, I think you're more likely to get it in Eastern Europe and not in the UK or France, for instance. I was born and raised in a Western culture, so even though I'm certainly going to be impressed by the architecture in Paris and London, the people and places there are (for me) too familiar and predictable... If I was from an Asian country, I'm sure Western Europe would be more impressive than the East.
Quote from: listener on May 29, 2011, 11:03:00 PM
FYI rail passes purchase in North America often give you great savings. Here's a Czech link
http://www.myczechrepublic.com/czech-trains.html
Thanks so much!
Quote from: Sandra on May 29, 2011, 10:57:53 PM
Ok, Prague sounds interesting. How about Bratislava?
Also, what would you guys recommend as far as places to stay?
I have been told by many people who regularly travel that getting a hotel room is not nearly as interesting and exciting as renting a guest-house. The closer you are to the locals, the more you'll learn about them, see how they live, what they eat and drink. That does sound fun too. If anyone has had such an experience in Eastern Europe, I'll be happy to know how it went.
I lived with locals on several occassions (across Eastern Europe), usually to great results (some fabulous experiences). There are a few nutters though, so try to find a place through a recommendation or from someone who has stayed there to avoid the real wackos. There are probably many bed and breadkfast type places, as there are so many tourists to Prague/Czech Rep. It's really the only downside to Prague - which is a relatively small city with a high number of tourists.
Slovakia and the Czech countryside makes for some intersting trips or additional days to a vacation. You could also consider Vienna and Budapest. I am not a huge fan of Bratislava myself. A little further away is Krakow, a beautiful town that was not bombed during WWII. And since this is a music forum after all, you are not too far from Bayreuth in Prague. :)
Here are Krakow recommendations provided for me by someone I trust.
Krakow Accommodation
http://www.cracowdays.com/
Krakow Tours
http://www.krakowtours.co.uk/
Mike
Quote from: mc ukrneal on May 29, 2011, 11:43:33 PM
A little further away is Krakow, a beautiful town that was not bombed during WWII. And since this is a music forum after all, you are not too far from Bayreuth in Prague.
Bayreuth
and Prague - let's avoid all possible confusion!
Quote from: Sandra on May 29, 2011, 10:31:33 PM
For far, I am considering Romania, Slovakia, Poland and Italy.
Quote from: MDL on May 29, 2011, 02:12:22 PM
Had a fab time in Romania in 2008; it's not in the euro zone, so it's quite cheap. Brasov in particular was lovely. The Romanians were the warmest, gentlest people I've encountered in Eastern Europe... yes, I'm making sweeping generalisations, but I can only comment on my own personal experience, not what the PC police tell me to say.
I am Romanian so I'm not quite neutral, but...
Romania is the most "exotic" (i.e, very unlike US and most Western Europe) and probably the cheapest of the list.
If you want old, tranquil towns, medieval castles, superb Eastern Orthodox monasteries, picturesque scenery, awesome food, plum brandy & wines and friendly and welcoming people, you should definitely consider it.
(Did I mention Dracula's Castle? ;D)
Besides staying at a hotel, you have the option of going to rural areas and stay in an agri-touristic facility, thus experiencing local life first hand --- and that is indeed radically different from everything you're accustomed to in Oregon or California. :D
Some appetizers:
(http://canberra.mae.ro/images/images_stiri/general/Sibiu_va.jpg)
(http://www.romanianlandscape.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/Sighisoara-Romania.jpg)
(http://www.1235.ro/admin/images/temp/9861259869999__brasov4.jpg)
(http://www.turismland.ro/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/Ateneul-Roman-630x472.jpg)
(http://www.avantajtour.ro/admin/uploads/3049poza1MARAMURES.jpg)
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_itdjWr7NbKw/TMrLEu0BAEI/AAAAAAAAAJk/CXTWKyrvPu4/s1600/voronet.jpg)
(http://acin.weblog.ro/usercontent/19/19889/fagaras-094.jpg)
If you decide for it, just let me know and I'll suggest you some interesting regions.
Quote from: Florestan on May 30, 2011, 01:10:46 AM
Some appetizers:
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_itdjWr7NbKw/TMrLEu0BAEI/AAAAAAAAAJk/CXTWKyrvPu4/s1600/voronet.jpg)
These are indeed amazing. I was lucky to have spent some time in northeastern Romania and we spent a day going from church to church. They are painted on th outside and many of them are incredibly intersesting. The scenery is nice too. There is also that cool castle a couple hours north of Bucharest (in the hills/mountains) that was beautiful too. Name escapes me just now...
EDIT: Peles castle - I think that was it. Looks like:
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/3d/Peles_Castle_-_Sinaia_-_Romania_01.jpg)
Quote from: mc ukrneal on May 30, 2011, 01:16:08 AM
There is also that cool castle a couple hours north of Budapest (in the hills/mountains)
Oh, no, not again! (http://www.dream-worlds.net/forum/uploads/100/Angry-Emoticon.gif)
Bucharest, please!!!( :D ;D :D)
Quote
that was beautiful too. Name escapes me just now...
That would be either Peleş
(http://www.romanianmonasteries.org/rom/images/castelul-Peles-Sinaia4.jpg)
or Bran (Dracula)
(http://www.destinatiidevacanta.ro/images/stories/castelul-bran.jpg)
Quote from: mc ukrneal on May 30, 2011, 01:16:08 AM
These are indeed amazing. I was lucky to have spent some time in northeastern Romania and we spent a day going from church to church. They are painted on th outside and many of them are incredibly intersesting.
More.
(http://www.radiotop.ro/media/2010/08/sucevita.jpg)
(http://media1.manastireamoldovita.wgz.ro/images/media1:49b29a55ab39c.jpg/Manastirea%20Moldovita.jpg)
(http://turism-center.ro/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/Manastirea-Humor-2.jpg)
Quote from: Florestan on May 30, 2011, 01:24:18 AM
Oh, no, not again! (http://www.dream-worlds.net/forum/uploads/100/Angry-Emoticon.gif)
Bucharest, please!!!
( :D ;D :D)
I did go back and fix it, but I was too late!
Quote from: mc ukrneal on May 30, 2011, 01:42:26 AM
I did go back and fix it, but I was too late!
:D :D
http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,9.msg518758.html#msg518758
Quote from: Sergeant Rock on May 29, 2011, 12:46:35 PM
See! Proves my point. You're just passing through on the way to somewhere else ;)
Sarge
Yes, but I have the sense to spend 5 days on route.
Quote from: mc ukrneal on May 30, 2011, 01:16:08 AM
These are indeed amazing. I was lucky to have spent some time in northeastern Romania and we spent a day going from church to church.
How do you (and others) deal with the language difficulties? I felt continually nervous even in France with my only passable grasp of the language. Italy was less of a problem given how everybody expects tourists in such large numbers.
Quote from: Lethe Dmitriyevich Shostakovich on May 30, 2011, 02:27:59 AM
How do you (and others) deal with the language difficulties? I felt continually nervous even in France with my only passable grasp of the language. Italy was less of a problem given how everybody expects tourists in such large numbers.
I try to learn at least a few words- the most important being please and thank you. Smiling is key too. Lots and lots of smiling!
Quote from: mc ukrneal on May 30, 2011, 02:35:22 AM
I try to learn at least a few words- the most important being please and thank you. Smiling is key too. Lots and lots of smiling!
Spot on; learning "hello", "please" and "thank you" in the local lingo will be a big help. I got through China unable to say anything else.
If all these cities are a bit exhausting, where's the best place to unwind? I'd say the Greek islands, the Croatian coast, Tuscany or the Lake District.
Florestan, thank you so much. Those pictures are beautiful. Romania is definitely top of the list. I got an Eastern Europe tour-guide book. I'm looking forward to read some more about these countries.
Getting to hear their national ensembles and orchestras would be another huge opportunity. I love the folk dances from that region!
Quote from: The new erato on May 29, 2011, 09:00:09 AM
I will stay in Halle, Weimar, Iphofen and Rothenburg on my way to Italy this year!
Quote from: The new erato on May 30, 2011, 01:52:06 AM
Yes, but I have the sense to spend 5 days on route.
If you have time you should travel from Halle to Weimar via the Saale-Unstrut valleys rather than taking the Autobahn. Beautiful wine country.
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/da/Freyburgburg.jpg/800px-Freyburgburg.jpg)
Sarge
Quote from: Sandra on May 30, 2011, 04:37:04 AM
Florestan, thank you so much. Those pictures are beautiful. Romania is definitely top of the list.
You're welcome. Feel free to PM me for any further information or help you might need.
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Getting to hear their national ensembles and orchestras would be another huge opportunity. I love the folk dances from that region!
Plenty of opportunities for that as well!
(http://www.tribuna.ro/images-up/2009_04_13_0_7_junii-sibiului-danseaza-la-bruxelles_10364.jpg)
Some folkloric songs:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0W395ryBuqg (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0W395ryBuqg)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gLTvP67zY-s&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gLTvP67zY-s&feature=related)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xoJqF8Dd2DM (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xoJqF8Dd2DM)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DGMy2qzSPOw (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DGMy2qzSPOw)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MdLSBIjCEw0&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MdLSBIjCEw0&feature=related)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tVajUczk7KA&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tVajUczk7KA&feature=related)
Prior to WWII, Bucharest was nicknamed "Little Paris". That's the music you could've heard in his innumerable caffes and restaurants (alas, long gone since!):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mEbUtetY1yg (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mEbUtetY1yg)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kL-1Lp6y2Fk&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kL-1Lp6y2Fk&feature=related)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zp907GW38OI (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zp907GW38OI)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OTy99Dk-ZVU (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OTy99Dk-ZVU)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cdrRRGWR2us&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cdrRRGWR2us&feature=related)
I hear Greece is cheap!! ;D :P :-*
Florestan, Budapest looks rather nice. <runs away!> ;D
Quote from: Sergeant Rock on May 30, 2011, 04:42:20 AM
If you have time you should travel from Halle to Weimar via the Saale-Unstrut valleys rather than taking the Autobahn. Beautiful wine country.
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/da/Freyburgburg.jpg/800px-Freyburgburg.jpg)
Sarge
I have time. And thanks for the tip. Wine's a part of the trip. Staying some nights in Piemonte, and returning via Rhone to Chablis.
Quote from: romboid on May 29, 2011, 06:54:05 AMTurkey.
Germany ;D
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_kJarVuKMPAQ/SYGfqTU9p1I/AAAAAAAAIcw/dkMbvt6cjZw/s1600/aerdogan_tuerk2.jpg)
In Germany, I like the Allgäu most.
(http://www.bestfewo.de/uploads/pics/allgaeu.jpg)
My best choice would be Switzerland. I loved it. Many years ago I was in a small village called "Ausserberg". Pretty high and far away from the valley, just beautiful.
(http://blog.naturundbildung.at/wp/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/heidi_peter.jpg)
Quote from: mozartfan on May 30, 2011, 07:11:21 AM
Florestan, Budapest looks rather nice. <runs away!> ;D
Hey, don't run away, come back: you're right. I've visited it thrice and it is very nice indeed, it reminds me of Vienna. :)
Nice pictures of Romania, Florestan. București seems to be beautiful (but I guess in the center only, as many big cities have their rotten ares as well) :) Had a look with street view...
Quote from: Tapio Dmitriyevich Shostakovich on May 30, 2011, 09:05:35 AM
Nice pictures of Romania, Florestan. București seems to be beautiful (but I guess in the center only, as many big cities have their rotten ares as well) :)
There are some not-so-central areas that are nice as well.
Quote from: mc ukrneal on May 30, 2011, 02:35:22 AMI try to learn at least a few words- the most important being please and thank you. Smiling is key too. Lots and lots of smiling!
Same here. I always try to speak some essential words, the important stuff in their language, some kind of door opener. Works very good except maybe it's not enough in France.
People like it if you connect friendliness with the glorious speaking of 5 words in their language :)
Quote from: Sandra on May 29, 2011, 10:57:53 PM
Ok, Prague sounds interesting. How about Bratislava?
Bratislava is OK & Slovaks are generally a fine bunch but there's not that much to see there, IMO. Slovakia is worth visiting for the Tatry & Fatra mountain ranges, if hiking is your thing.
Quote from: Tapio Dmitriyevich Shostakovich on May 30, 2011, 09:14:25 AM
People like it if you connect friendliness with the glorious speaking of 5 words in their language :)
Jenny made her mind up when she was twelve
That into foreign languages she would delve
But at seventeen to Vassar, it was quite a blow
That in twenty-seven languages she couldn't say 'no'
Weill/Ira Gershwin
Mike
Quote from: Tapio Dmitriyevich Shostakovich on May 30, 2011, 09:05:35 AM
Had a look with street view...
Wow! This is what I needed! I didn't know there was street view in Europe.
Looks like today is going to fly by!
Quote from: Sandra on May 30, 2011, 03:22:22 PMWow! This is what I needed! I didn't know there was street view in Europe.
Did you enjoy your trip to Europe? ;)
There's not much at least in Germany. Maybe you heard about the discussions here. In my opinion: a) We're an old society, therefore conservative (and illiterate) in computer things... And preventing risks, which is a question of age. b) Germans do not understand business. "a Company earning money" means "evil" for many.
Even the computer geek scene is split, because traditionally it's a very left wing scene and therefore pretty anti american.
My personal favorites in Europe:
- South Tyrol/Alto Adige, Italy: imagine the best of northern Italy merged seamlessly with the best of Austria, but with fewer people and with stunning scenery and superb wines and food. That's what this region is. A few years ago I went with my wife. We stayed in Merano/Meran, a small spa town north of Bolzano/Bozen. Our typical days were: hiking in the mountains in the morning, winetasting and lunch mid day, afternoon at the spa, superb dinner in the evening. It doesn't get better than that. My wife proclaimed it the best vacation ever (even over our honeymoon to South Africa).
- Berlin: I don't understand why anoyone sharing the musical interests that would bring you to this forum would not have Berlin at the top of their European travel list. It has a classical music scene of unsurpassed richness, it is young, alive, not overrun like the other European capitals, and most importantly it is *much* cheaper than any of the other major Western European capitals. It is hard to beat the amount and quality of culture your money can buy you in Berlin. No other city compares. Yes, the people are a bit abrasive, but after a while you'll appreciate their lack of pretense.
- The Dalmatian Coast, Croatia: From Spain to Turkey, I've been all around the European side of the Mediterranean. The Dalmatian coast is hands down the most beautiful part. The water is cleaner, the scenery more stunning. And it's still cheaper than most of the other places on the Med. It's also not as overrun as, e.g., Greece, Spain or Italy. If you crave the water and a nice pebble beach by a quaint fishing town with Venetian architecture, there is no better place to be than one of the Dalmatian islands. Two places I particularly like are Opatija (a more old-style Austrian-influenced seaside resort in the north) and Korcula, which to me is the most beautiful of the smaller island towns. Dubrovnik is of course a must see.
- The Mittelrhein, Germany: as Sarge and others observe, too many tourists seem unaware of the gems hidden in the German countryside. Forget France's Loire valley! You've not seen castles until you have seen the Mittelrhein valley between Bingen and Koblenz. The area is a UNESCO world heritage site and literally has a castle per mile of river in a windy gorge. Can be enjoyed at leisure biking, driving, hiking or taking a brief train ride through the valley. Also, don't miss the wines of the nearby Rheingau, Mosel and Nahe areas.
- Sancerre, France: If I want to experience rural France, this is where I go. The marriage of local food to the wines of the terroir is perfect. And the little hilltop town gives you stunning view over the surrounding scenery. It's in the Loire, but far off from the famous castles. Only white wine lovers go here. The package tourists stay away. Also, it's not expensive and within a short drive straight south from Paris.
Thank you, Mishak!
I should have mentioned in the original post that I'm not terribly interested in nature scenes and architecture. The main purpose of our trip is to experience a culture that it different from our own. We're interested in the people, their way of life, their traditions, etc. Obviously the two aren't mutually exclusive, and if all of that is available in one place, that's even better.
From what you describe Berlin sounds like an amazing place.
I spent some says near Trier (Klüsserath) this weekend; indeed beautiful Mosel and vineyards, enjoyed wandering there. According to a friend who lives there, biking must be very nice along the Mosel.
Berlin. Well a lot of egocentric people there. But indeed I was surprised how young the population was. I lived for a few days in a nice part of Berlin (forgot which one) with a lot of old but beautiful houses; a lot of young people and children around, unusual.
Quote from: Sandra on June 10, 2011, 10:30:30 PM
Thank you, Mishak!
I should have mentioned in the original post that I'm not terribly interested in nature scenes and architecture. The main purpose of our trip is to experience a culture that it different from our own. We're interested in the people, their way of life, their traditions, etc. Obviously the two aren't mutually exclusive, and if all of that is available in one place, that's even better.
From what you describe Berlin sounds like an amazing place.
I am describing the scenery, not insisting that you appreciate nature or architecture. ;-) But the scenery and archictecture influence the people and the culture and vice versa. It's part of the lifestyle and feel of a place. That's all I was trying to describe.
Quote from: Sandra on June 10, 2011, 10:30:30 PM
The main purpose of our trip is to experience a culture that it different from our own.
All right, but different in what way? Could you please list, say, five features of your culture that you'd like to experience something different from?
Quote from: Florestan on June 16, 2011, 12:24:24 AM
All right, but different in what way? Could you please list, say, five features of your culture that you'd like to experience something different from?
Good lord, don't make it a quiz! I can say as an American in London that when you get to Europe, anywhere in Europe, the difference in cultures is truly enormous. The walkable, compact cities, the cafe culture, the sense of history about everything, the way there seems to be a significant landmark around every corner, credit cards with chips in them, waffle and gelato stands, the absence of parking lots (car parks), convenient trains, fab art galleries, and then country-specific things like all the canal cities in the Netherlands, or the amazing orderliness of the English, or going into a Basque tapas bar where nobody speaks English and ordering things by pointing, or munching on hot doughnuts in Warsaw whilst walking past a male lingerie (!) shop.
Wherever Sandra goes, it will be like nowhere she's gone. :)
My favorite "culture" in Europe so far is the Dutch - so laid-back, so comfortable with themselves, and drinking 'til midnight on a town's market square is such a great pastime - but then I haven't been to France, or Italy, and haven't been to Germany in 13 years...
Quote from: Brian on June 16, 2011, 12:50:01 AM
Good lord, don't make it a quiz! I can say as an American in London that when you get to Europe, anywhere in Europe, the difference in cultures is truly enormous. The walkable, compact cities, the cafe culture, the sense of history about everything, the way there seems to be a significant landmark around every corner, credit cards with chips in them, waffle and gelato stands, the absence of parking lots (car parks), convenient trains, fab art galleries, and then country-specific things like all the canal cities in the Netherlands, or the amazing orderliness of the English, or going into a Basque tapas bar where nobody speaks English and ordering things by pointing, or munching on hot doughnuts in Warsaw whilst walking past a male lingerie (!) shop.
Wherever Sandra goes, it will be like nowhere she's gone. :)
That's exactly my point: she could close her eyes, put a finger on Europe's map at random and go there, it will certainly be different than what she is accustomed to --- but there are certain rural areas where even what you described above might be seen as "American" and where the way of life and its pace is still pre-modern. Perhaps she might be interested in experiencing something like that. :)
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My favorite "culture" in Europe so far is the Dutch - so laid-back, so comfortable with themselves, and drinking 'til midnight on a town's market square is such a great pastime
Go Spain and you'll be drinking till dawn! ;D
Yep! Brian answered it for me.
The debate in our group is getting more and more intense... We'll see how things work out.