Hello all,
I am rather ashamed to say that I am yet to listen to my first Wagner opera in full! But my time has come now to start my Wagnerian journey and I have decided to start with 'Tristan und Isolde' after being absolutely amazed by the beauty and passion in a variety of excerpts I have heard. I would like some help though in choosing a good recording, so please comment away with your favourite recordings of the work. Is it Karajan? Furtwangler? Solti? Barenboim? Pappano? Kleiber? Bohm? Bernstein? Thielemann?
Thank you! :)
Best Wishes,
Daniel
p.s Apologies if this topic has already been raised, but I couldn't find it...
The Böhm is remarkable - it sounds better than you would expect for its age, the orchestra is driven and secure and the vocal contributions, especially from Nilsson, only add to this sense of volcanic power. As much as I like Kleiber and Furtwängler (EMI), their appeal is less elemental to me than Böhm. Imagine, perhaps, the reputation of Solti in Wagner, but with a little more flexibility and more natural recorded sound - if you're looking for a poetic Wagner, this may not be the place to go, however.
Bohm. If you can sample it in DVD, sample the version with Nilsson and Vickers. Image quality is a bit less than ideal, and the staging isn't the best, and sound quality is not up to Bohm's DG set, but there is much to commend this one. Seeing and hearing Vickers in Act III is something.
If you want just the music, Bohm on DG, Furtwangler on EMI, Carlos Kleiber at La Scala (sound is not good; Caterina Ligendza is great), or Carlos Kleiber's DG set.
I recommend you get first the 1952 Karajan with Vinay and Hotter and Moedel.
If you want to explore further I recommend the 1947 live Furtwaengler (Acts II and III only) with Erna Schlueter
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51DV9FCYDQL._SL500_AA300_.jpg) (http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/61J8XiPcwIL._SL500_AA280_.jpg)
I wonder if any would mind if I asked a question in this thread.
Can someone recommend a Tristan on DVD for me? One of my main interests is the production and acting. I don't really like to see traditional settings and costumes. I prefer minimal or updated productions, with an element of regietheatre. In a way the production of Boehm's performance at Orange is perfect for me as I think that minimilism suits a work as timeless as this -- but the sound and picture quality are so bad that I get very little pleasure from watching it.
I can see these versions:
Barenboim, Meir, Kollo
Barenboim, Storey, Meier (the Chereau production)
Robert Gambill, Nina Stemme, Jiri Belohlavek
Robert Dean Smith, Iréne Theorin , Peter Schneider
West, Meyer Mehta,
Bertrand de Billy, Debroah Polaski, John Treleaven,
Levine, Hepner, Eaglen
Charbonnet, Fujimora, Armin Jordan
Felsenstein, Richard Decker and Iordanka Derilova
Gwyneth Jones, Rene Kollo, Jiri Kout
There's a Wieland Wagner production with Wingassen from Osaka in 1967 which looks very good to me -- is it available anywhere? Here's an excerpt
http://www.youtube.com/v/yojPKD1r6vU
Quote from: Mandryka on August 31, 2011, 10:35:14 PM
Levine, Hepner, Eaglen
This one is a solid production - somewhat minimal but high quality, but it's almost an olden-style "stand and sing" affair: rather dull in terms of acting. I suppose this is a de-recommendation.
Quote from: Lethe Dmitriyevich Shostakovich on August 31, 2011, 10:52:14 PM
This one is a solid production - somewhat minimal but high quality, but it's almost an olden-style "stand and sing" affair: rather dull in terms of acting. I suppose this is a de-recommendation.
I can imagine what the singing is like -- I've seen Hepner and Eaglen in it at Covent Garden.
By the way I have found the Wieland Wagner production with Windgassen from Osaka on DVD at Berkshire Record Outlet.. I am very fond of what I've seen of Wieland Wagner's art. Does anyone know what other Wieland Wagner DVDs there are?
I wish Peter Brook would have directed this opera :)
I agree about Karajan '52 and the '47 Furtwängler - which for me is notable more for a Suthaus at the top of his form than for Schlüter, F being of course hors concours in this music. The Kna version (Munich '50) is surprisingly dramatic, though the Isolde is so-so. - I haven't seen any T&I DVDs, nor do I particularly want to. It all goes on in my head when I listen. Do you know you can find the gravestone of Tristan in Cornwall? If my memory serves me well, it says "Hic jacet Drustans, filius Connemori". Thereby hangs a tale, of course, since the opera does have very Oedipal overtones.
Speaking as a veteran Wagner freak , I would recommend that with either CDs or DVDs, , that you take one act at a time and give yourself a breather between them. This makes them easier to experience and digest. With CDs, make sure you follow the English translation along with the original German libretto in the booklet. Not all of the recordings have this, but you can easily download opera librettos at the Naxos website.
There is nothing so intoxicating as Wagner ! It;s like taking illegal drugs without any physical danger .
Thank you all for your feedback.
Quote from: Lethe Dmitriyevich Shostakovich on August 31, 2011, 01:15:07 PM
if you're looking for a poetic Wagner, this may not be the place to go, however.
But you would recommend Bohm overall? Ok. :) Which conductors are more poetic in their interpretation - as I know that Tristan und Isolde has a lot of poetic love music! :)
Quote from: Superhorn on September 01, 2011, 07:20:53 AM
Speaking as a veteran Wagner freak , I would recommend that with either CDs or DVDs, , that you take one act at a time and give yourself a breather between them. This makes them easier to experience and digest. With CDs, make sure you follow the English translation along with the original German libretto in the booklet. Not all of the recordings have this, but you can easily download opera librettos at the Naxos website.
There is nothing so intoxicating as Wagner ! It;s like taking illegal drugs without any physical danger .
Thank you for that advice! :) Yes, it is probably a better idea to take it an act at a time considering the length! ;)
I'm hardly an expert on Tristan versions, but would cast another vote for Böhm. Even though recorded in 1966 the sound is excellent, and the cast - especially Nilsson - ditto. As many have said, there was only one Birgit Nilsson, and when she does the concluding "Liebestod" it's quite an experience.
On DVD, I have seen the Levine/Heppner/Eaglen production (also live at the Met) and like it very much: the scenic design is fascinating - very minimal, using geometric shapes and light very effectively, and when Tristan dies, a landscape of miniature soldiers, cannons and castles.
--Bruce
Daniel, go with the Bohm! The Bohm is The Bomb in Tristan und Isolde! 8)
Quote from: ChamberNut on September 01, 2011, 10:27:20 AM
Daniel, go with the Bohm! The Bohm is The Bomb in Tristan und Isolde! 8)
haha ;) You certainly are enjoying your word puns today, Ray! :)
Quote from: Leon on September 01, 2011, 10:37:26 AM
I have not heard the Bohm, but I do have the Barenboim and Knappertsbusch (Munich/Live, 1950) and can recommend both.
Thank you, Leon! The Barenboim has been recommended to me quite a few times, it is very tempting considering it is with the Berlin Phil! :)
Have a nice day everyone, thank you all for the replies.
Best Wishes
Daniel
Quote from: Mandryka on August 31, 2011, 10:35:14 PM
I prefer minimal or updated productions, with an element of regietheatre.
SSSSSSssss!!!!!!! *Makes the sign of the cross*
WHAAT??? :o There's more than one recording??? :o
Bohm for me as well.
Quote from: madaboutmahler on September 01, 2011, 09:19:38 AM
Which conductors are more poetic in their interpretation
Karajan with Dernesch (a remarkably feminine and touching Isolde as opposed to Nilsson's super-human singing machine that I admire but who leaves me in neutral emotionally) and the extraordinary Jon Vickers (even if you don't like his intense interpretation, his palpable anguish, he's a must-hear at least once). Bernstein is another with, again, a very womanly, vulnerable and less than perfectly controlled Isolde in Behrens. Bernstein's tempos are slow but I find the performance mesmerizing. I like Kleiber too but not as much as Karajan and Bernstein. Barenboim I haven't heard.
Let me cast the first negative vote against Böhm. Nilsson just isn't my idea of Isolde and Windgassen is too middle-aged. But as you've noticed, mine is a minority opinion ;)
Sarge
Quote from: madaboutmahler on August 31, 2011, 01:10:05 PM
Hello all,
I am rather ashamed to say that I am yet to listen to my first Wagner opera in full! But my time has come now to start my Wagnerian journey and I have decided to start with 'Tristan und Isolde' after being absolutely amazed by the beauty and passion in a variety of excerpts I have heard. I would like some help though in choosing a good recording, so please comment away with your favourite recordings of the work. Is it Karajan? Furtwangler? Solti? Barenboim? Pappano? Kleiber? Bohm? Bernstein? Thielemann?
Thank you! :)
Best Wishes,
Daniel
p.s Apologies if this topic has already been raised, but I couldn't find it...
I have Bohm and it is great but for me the most spectacular recording of Tristan und Isolde is Furtwangler on EMI Great Recordings of the Century. This recording:
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51E-52fZvVL._SS400_.jpg)
There will never be an Isolde quite like Flagstaad, she defines that role in much the same way as Callas defines the role of Norma!
As great as the Bohm recording is I find the pace much too fast, it's a white hot recording, but much too fast to allow the music to breathe. This prevents me from entering into that all important hypnotic trance, essential for Tristan und Isolde.
Own both if you wish................. I do,............................. but please please own FURTWANGLER!
marvin
Quote from: Sergeant Rock on September 03, 2011, 03:55:37 AM
Karajan with Dernesch (a remarkably feminine and touching Isolde as opposed to Nilsson's super-human singing machine that I admire but who leaves me in neutral emotionally) and the extraordinary Jon Vickers (even if you don't like his intense interpretation, his palpable anguish, he's a must-hear at least once). Bernstein is another with, again, a very womanly, vulnerable and less than perfectly controlled Isolde in Behrens. Bernstein's tempos are slow but I find the performance mesmerizing. I like Kleiber too but not as much as Karajan and Bernstein. Barenboim I haven't heard.
Let me cast the first negative vote against Böhm. Nilsson just isn't my idea of Isolde and Windgassen is too middle-aged. But as you've noticed, mine is a minority opinion ;)
Sarge
I have already cast a negative vote against Nilsson - and agree about Windgassen - in the Collecting Wagner thread, Sarge, so the minority is growing :). Karajan/Dernesch/Vickers is my favourite of the stereo Tristans I have heard, though I prefer the '52 mono Karajan/Mödl/Vinay for its greater passion or the Furtwängler/Flagstad/Suthaus for its cosmic depth. Of other historical recordings I am attached to the Knappertsbusch/Braun/Treptow 1950, though his Isolde has obvious weaknesses, and have found moments of white-hot ecstasy in the '48 Erich Kleiber with a more dramatic Flagstad and excellent Svanholm. Sound is very dodgy though - only for Tristan-fanciers. Of all the Tristans, I rate Suthaus '47 highest (missing Act 1 though), then Melchior with Reiner or Beecham, then Vinay, Svanholm and Treptow. The greatest - unmissable - recording of the love duet is of course Coates/Leider/Melchior, best heard on that Great Conductors of the 20th Century transfer, I find.
Quote from: marvinbrown on September 03, 2011, 04:44:00 AM
I have Bohm and it is great but for me the most spectacular recording of Tristan und Isolde is Furtwangler on EMI Great Recordings of the Century.
There will never be an Isolde quite like Flagstaad, she defines that role in much the same way as Callas defines the role of Norma!
As great as the Bohm recording is I find the pace much too fast, it's a white hot recording, but much too fast to allow the music to breathe. This prevents me from entering into that all important hypnotic trance, essential for Tristan und Isolde.
Own both if you wish................. I do,............................. but please please own FURTWANGLER!
marvin
Thank you all for the opinions, very helpful! :) You are very enthusiastic for the Furtwangler! I can tell that it would be amazing - I have heard much praise of it else where as well! :) May I ask, what is the EMI remastering like?
Thank you again everyone!
Buy the Bohm!!!! The end.
Quote from: Mirror Image on September 03, 2011, 08:59:27 AM
Buy the Bohm!!!! The end.
The end? Hardly...not even much of a beginning ;)
The reasons, MI, you love Karajan's Ring so much are as manifest in his Tristan...to give just one example of why Böhm is hardly the be all and end all of Tristan.
Sarge
Quote from: madaboutmahler on September 03, 2011, 08:26:13 AM
Thank you all for the opinions, very helpful! :) You are very enthusiastic for the Furtwangler! I can tell that it would be amazing - I have heard much praise of it else where as well! :) May I ask, what is the EMI remastering like?
Thank you again everyone!
I am not an audio expert nor an audiophile, that said, I find the sound quality to be very good. I have never had a problem with the sound quality on that recording.
marvin
I am with Sarge here. Karajan with Vickers, Kleiber with Margaret Price and Furtwangler. Any of those will make a good start.
I have however never been able to take to Behrens; which riules out the Bernstein for me.
Mike
I don't like the recording quality of Karajan. It was an early digital recording and they overdid the dynamic range. In order to hear the quiet passages, the loud ones have to be at ear splitting levels. It might be OK on headphones, but on speakers I keep having to jump up and adjust the volume.
There is an artificiality to the sound and the balance is occasionally irritating when the voices are suddenly submerged as though into the middle distance. But I have never felt the need to keep changing the volume levels as I have with some other recordings. I had not realised digital was employed, though I can see from reading that digital was being used long before I thought, certainly by the time the recording was made in 1972. The pressing I have is within the complete Karajan EMI vocal box and it does not provide the customery digital status on any of the recordings.
Mike
1972 digital recording from EMI? Highly unlikely. I'm no expert but as far as I remember first commercial digital recordings were made by Japanese Denon in 1974 or 1975. Believe none of the majors switched to digital before 1979 or 1980.
Yes, I was trying to nail this, I also would be surprised. But can't find anything confirming the first use by EMI. However, I was surprised at how early on the technology was used.
At least as far as this set is concerned, perhaps someone who owns it in its own box with booklet will be abe to see whether it is described as ADD etc.
Mike
Quote from: knight66 on September 04, 2011, 01:42:45 AM
...perhaps someone who owns it in its own box with booklet will be abe to see whether it is described as ADD etc.
Karajan's Tristan was an analog recording. It's labeled ADD on my copy. (ADD – Analog tape recorder used during initial recording, Digital tape recorder used during mixing/editing and for mastering.)
Sarge
Thanks Sarge, that confirms my idea of what was likely.
Mike
Quote from: Sergeant Rock on September 03, 2011, 12:07:46 PM
The end? Hardly...not even much of a beginning ;)
The reasons, MI, you love Karajan's Ring so much are as manifest in his Tristan...to give just one example of why Böhm is hardly the be all and end all of Tristan.
Sarge
My suggestion was just to buy the Bohm. The reason why I've stayed away from Karajan's
Tristan is because of the audio quality. I never have liked Karajan on EMI.
A sweeping statement. Many of the EMI discs are superb for their time and do not have the kinds of odd perspectives that his Aida 2/Don Carlos/Tristan have. The discs produced by Walter Legge still stand up 50 years later. Hansel und Gretel, Rosenkavalier, Fledermaus, Bruckner symphonies, etc. The Dresden Meistersingers has glorious sound. I could go on....it is about picking and choosing. To sweep all his EMI discs off the table means you miss out on some of the best performances and recordings.
Mike
Quote from: Mirror Image on September 04, 2011, 08:24:43 AM
My suggestion was just to buy the Bohm. The reason why I've stayed away from Karajan's Tristan is because of the audio quality. I never have liked Karajan on EMI.
I have Karajan's cd of Wagner Overtures (etc) and have to say that his performance of the Prelude to Tristan sounds much less passionate than other versions I have heard... I think Karajan was better on DG with the better sound quality, yes, but some of his EMI releases like his Sibelius recordings.
Daniel
Quote from: Mirror Image on September 04, 2011, 08:24:43 AM
My suggestion was just to buy the Bohm.
I know...hence my wink after the comment. I was just messing with you.
Sarge
Quote from: Sergeant Rock on September 04, 2011, 04:07:46 AM
Karajan's Tristan was an analog recording. It's labeled ADD on my copy. (ADD – Analog tape recorder used during initial recording, Digital tape recorder used during mixing/editing and for mastering.)
I just realized that I was thinking of Parsifal.
Right, that makes sense now. Not that it was all that important, just that my world has tilted back into order again.
Mike
I think the decision that madaboutmahler 8) (hey I like that name maybe I should change mine to madaboutwagner!!) has to make is sound quality vs. performance. Personally I'd choose the latter and when it comes to performance the Furtwangler is unmatched!
PS:concerning madaboutmahler 8), he doesn't know it now but Tristan und Isolde is addictive and he will soon have multiple recordings in his collection! Lucky for him recordings of Tristan und Isolde are cheap. When he gets addicted to the Ring cycle that's when the wallet starts to hurt!
£113 for the Keilberth Ring 1955......OUCH! ..........but I digress...........
marvin
Quote from: marvinbrown on September 06, 2011, 02:19:08 AM
I think the decision that madaboutmahler 8) (hey I like that name maybe I should change mine to madaboutwagner!!) has to make is sound quality vs. performance. Personally I'd choose the latter and when it comes to performance the Furtwangler is unmatched!
PS:concerning madaboutmahler 8), he doesn't know it now but Tristan und Isolde is addictive and he will soon have multiple recordings in his collection! Lucky for him recordings of Tristan und Isolde are cheap. When he gets addicted to the Ring cycle that's when the wallet starts to hurt!
£113 for the Keilberth Ring 1955......OUCH! ..........but I digress...........
marvin
haha, glad you like the name :)
Yes, recordings of Tristan do seem rather cheaper than other Wagner operas - apart from the Solti and Barenboim recordings!
haha, I am already looking for recordings of the Ring Cycle after being amazed by the power of the Immolation Scene from Gotterdammerung! They are certainly expensive. Marvin, which recording of the Ring Cycle do you recommend, Karajan, Barenboim or Solti sound the best to me from the few excerpts I have heard.... I doubt there will ever be a perfect Ring Cycle though considering the length!
Daniel
Quote from: madaboutmahler on September 06, 2011, 02:57:20 AM
haha, glad you like the name :)
Yes, recordings of Tristan do seem rather cheaper than other Wagner operas - apart from the Solti and Barenboim recordings!
haha, I am already looking for recordings of the Ring Cycle after being amazed by the power of the Immolation Scene from Gotterdammerung! They are certainly expensive. Marvin, which recording of the Ring Cycle do you recommend, Karajan, Barenboim or Solti sound the best to me from the few excerpts I have heard.... I doubt there will ever be a perfect Ring Cycle though considering the length!
Daniel
Oh far too many.....I kindly refer you to this thread........enjoy :)!
http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,3576.0.html (http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,3576.0.html)
PS: I have 6 Ring Cycles and I love each for different reasons. But Bohm, Solti and Krauss 1953 are tops for me!
Quote from: Leon on September 06, 2011, 02:58:59 AM
How much better is the 1955 than the 1952 Keilberth? The latter can be had as an Amazon download for $12.00 - although, I know that downloads are not preferred, still ....
Not sure because I have not heard Keilberth 1952 and can not afford Keilberth 1955 (in stereo!) Unfortunately I had to settle for Krauss 1953 in mono :-\........... Decca should have never sold the distribution rights of the Keilberth '55 to Testament!
marvin
Quote from: marvinbrown on September 06, 2011, 03:17:32 AM
Oh far too many.....I kindly refer you to this thread........enjoy :)!
http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,3576.0.html (http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,3576.0.html)
PS: I have 6 Ring Cycles and I love each for different reasons. But Bohm, Solti and Krauss 1953 are tops for me!
Thank you for the link, I shall get reading! :) It seems Solti is rather popular on that thread, so I would probably buy that one, or ask my parents to buy it for me as a Christmas present! ;)
Daniel
Quote from: marvinbrown on September 06, 2011, 03:17:32 AM
Decca should have never sold the distribution rights of the Keilberth '55 to Testament!
To be fair, no other label would have done so good a job with it in terms of restoration and documentation, and with a discovery like this it deserves the best - not some shabby job (which sadly even Decca would've done nowadays). It's down to around £100 now, and presumably will creep lower. Considering how high Decca have been selling the Solti ring for ever since its release, it's not all bad...
Quote from: madaboutmahler on August 31, 2011, 01:10:05 PM
Hello all,
I am rather ashamed to say that I am yet to listen to my first Wagner opera in full! But my time has come now to start my Wagnerian journey and I have decided to start with 'Tristan und Isolde' after being absolutely amazed by the beauty and passion in a variety of excerpts I have heard. I would like some help though in choosing a good recording, so please comment away with your favourite recordings of the work. Is it Karajan? Furtwangler? Solti? Barenboim? Pappano? Kleiber? Bohm? Bernstein? Thielemann?
Thank you! :)
Best Wishes,
Daniel
p.s Apologies if this topic has already been raised, but I couldn't find it...
That's great, it's very hard to find another opera which could compete with "Tristan und Isolde" for intensity, harmonic richness, sensuality and colourful orchestration!
I suggest Furtwangler's version with the Philharmonia Orchestra, the rising, emotional intensity of his conducting style catchs the wagnerian ideal of the infinite melody.
Also Karajan's Tristan is excellent, and of course there's the Berlin Phil ;)
But you've got "Der Fliegende Hollander", haven't you taken a listen to it yet?!?
Don't forget to look for both the Ring Cycle and Parsifal in future as well, they're absolutely worth listening to :)
Ilaria
Quote from: Lisztianwagner on September 08, 2011, 02:28:02 PM
Don't forget to look for both the Ring Cycle and Parsifal in future as well, they're absolutely worth listening to :)
Ilaria
Absolutely correct! :)
The famous Solti Ring cycle turned me into a Wagner fan! I love it so much, I listened to the entire Siegfried opera twice in one day, while out fishing in Ontario! :D
The Karajan/BP Parsifal is outstanding!
Quote from: ChamberNut on September 08, 2011, 02:30:49 PM
Absolutely correct! :)
The famous Solti Ring cycle turned me into a Wagner fan! I love it so much, I listened to the entire Siegfried opera twice in one day, while out fishing in Ontario! :D
The Karajan/BP Parsifal is outstanding!
Definitely agree! :)
I may say that the same thing happened to me with Karajan Ring Cycle! :D Hahaha, it's really surprising you listened Siegfried twice, you were in a good company before finishing in Ontario ;) Well, when I listened to Wagner's music for the first time, I listened to "Das Rheingold", "Die Walkure" and the first act of "Siegfried" on end in the same day, I coudn't stop myself!
Yeah, Karajan's Parsifal is the best version of that opera I've ever heard! Knappertsbusch made a great recording at the Bayreth Festival too, but pity the sound quality is not perfect.
Ilaria
Quote from: Lisztianwagner on September 08, 2011, 02:28:02 PM
That's great, it's very hard to find another opera which could compete with "Tristan und Isolde" for intensity, harmonic richness, sensuality and colourful orchestration!
I suggest Furtwangler's version with the Philharmonia Orchestra, the rising, emotional intensity of his conducting style catchs the wagnerian ideal of the infinite melody.
Also Karajan's Tristan is excellent, and of course there's the Berlin Phil ;)
But you've got "Der Fliegende Hollander", haven't you taken a listen to it yet?!?
Don't forget to look for both the Ring Cycle and Parsifal in future as well, they're absolutely worth listening to :)
Ilaria
Hello Ilaria :)
Thank you for your comments, I knew that you suggest Karajan! :) I can imagine Furtwangler would be amazing as well! :)
Yes, I think I would rather start with Tristan than Der Fliegende Hollander, I think I would enjoy Tristan more as I believe it has more emotional power and beauty. I imagine that Tristan would be a much more mature work than Der Fliegende Hollander.
I shall definitely be listening to the Ring and Parsifal sometime in the future. :)
Have a nice day, Ilaria
Daniel
Quote from: Leon on September 06, 2011, 02:58:59 AMHow much better is the 1955 than the 1952 Keilberth?
Quite a bit. Aside from markedly superior sound, the singing is better in many key roles and the band plays better. The 52 ain't at all bad though.
Quote from: madaboutmahler on September 10, 2011, 04:57:54 AM
Hello Ilaria :)
Thank you for your comments, I knew that you suggest Karajan! :) I can imagine Furtwangler would be amazing as well! :)
Yes, I think I would rather start with Tristan than Der Fliegende Hollander, I think I would enjoy Tristan more as I believe it has more emotional power and beauty. I imagine that Tristan would be a much more mature work than Der Fliegende Hollander.
I shall definitely be listening to the Ring and Parsifal sometime in the future. :)
Have a nice day, Ilaria
Daniel
There's nothing you can do about it, I'm an extreme Karajan's fan! ;)
But Furtwangler's
Tristan is even better than the Karajan's one; if you could find it at a good price, it would be absolutely great.
Yes, I perfectly understand, and I agree: it would be better to start with one of Wagner's masterpieces, where music goes so far as to touch the peak of beauty. :)
It goes without repeating what I think about
Tristan und IsoldeI can't remember who is the conductor of your
Der Fliegende Hollander, who are the performers?
Ilaria
Quote from: Lisztianwagner on September 10, 2011, 05:24:28 AM
There's nothing you can do about it, I'm an extreme Karajan's fan! ;)
But Furtwangler's Tristan is even better than the Karajan's one; if you could find it at a good price, it would be absolutely great.
Yes, I perfectly understand, and I agree: it would be better to start with one of Wagner's masterpieces, where music goes so far as to touch the peak of beauty. :)
It goes without repeating what I think about Tristan und Isolde
I can't remember who is the conductor of your Der Fliegende Hollander, who are the performers?
Ilaria
haha :) Well, Karajan certainly is amazing in the Wagner performances I have heard of his, mainly the overtures/preludes! :)
Is this the Furtwangler recording you are talking about? I can get it very cheap off amazon, only £10! :)
[asin]B0001E8C14[/asin]
The recording I have of Der Fliegende Hollander is the Vienna Phil/Dohnanyi with Hale and Behrens.
Daniel
Quote from: madaboutmahler on September 10, 2011, 07:55:22 AM
haha :) Well, Karajan certainly is amazing in the Wagner performances I have heard of his, mainly the overtures/preludes! :)
Is this the Furtwangler recording you are talking about? I can get it very cheap off amazon, only £10! :)
[asin]B0001E8C14[/asin]
The recording I have of Der Fliegende Hollander is the Vienna Phil/Dohnanyi with Hale and Behrens.
Daniel
Exactly, the Furtwangler :)
Only £10?? How beautiful!!! I hope it is the remastered version, because Furtwangler recorded Tristan in the fifthies, and I'm not sure the original version has an excellent sound quality....
I've never listened to the Vienna Phil/Dohnanyi.
Ilaria
Quote from: Lisztianwagner on September 10, 2011, 09:30:01 AM
Exactly, the Furtwangler :)
Only £10?? How beautiful!!! I hope it is the remastered version, because Furtwangler recorded Tristan in the fifthies, and I'm not sure the original version has an excellent sound quality....
I've never listened to the Vienna Phil/Dohnanyi.
Ilaria
Yes, I was surprised to see it so inexpensive! :) I think this is the remastered version, yes. :)
Daniel
I have had interesting progression with Tristan. On first listenings, I liked Tristan's act 1 best. Now I admit it has its longueurs. As I matured, my favorite act changed to II, having so intense love music it could almost be called pornographic. But now, I probably deem act III as the greatest. The high strings portraying the open sea, devoid of any ships, are sublime. Tone painting at its finest.
My first (and possibly, along with Solti's, my favorite) recording of Tristan was that of Carlos Kleiber, with Rene Kollo as Tristan and Margaret Price as Isolde. For me, Price was perfect Isolde. Never really reminded me of Mozartian, that singing voice of hers.
Up to a point the following recording might be considered specialist.
Vickers, Nilsson, Berry, Rundgren, Ruth Hesse, ORTF Nat Orch, Bohm Orange live recording 1971 Opera D'Oro label.
I have been on a Tristan splurge recently adding a live Karajan, this recording and the studio Goodall to the eight or so I already had. The reason this might not be for the mainstream listener is the sonics. Although for the most part the participants are quite well caught, the sound is dry. The mistral was blowing and the gusts are picked up. It sounds like a storm, no doubt simply exagerated by the equipment. However, in this outdoor opera that takes place on ship and shore, the sound in some ways adds to the drama. But some may not appreciate it.
With that caveat taken care of, I recommend this as one of the most dramatic and best sung versions I have heard. Vickers is pretty much ideal, just as on the Karajan studio discs, but with a bit more wildness in Act 3....yes, even more of the madness, anguish and the hallucinatory. Nilsson is her tireless self, more overtly involved than in the other live version with Bohm with Windgassen. The two protagonists do not just stand and give it large. Despite being outdoors in an amphitheatre there is lots of subtlty and soft singing. All three acts are highly successful. Bohm sweeps the whole thing along; never really being a lingerer. It does not however sound rushed. The orchestra does very well,but it obviously does not sound like the Berlin Phil in a studio.
The other parts are perfectly well taken without being outstanding.
For drama and commitment and involvement it is difficult to beat.
Mike
I have that Orange Tristan on early 1990s (Rodolphe) discs and it say July 7th 1973. It's been a while that I listened to it but it was my first recording of the piece almost 25 years ago and the sound is pretty good stereo, albeit with some disturbances by the wind (and within the first few minutes of the prelude some people in the audience seem to get into a fight, maybe latecomers or so). It has a slight (supposedly standard) cut in the 2nd act.
I am very far from an expert on that music and I do not even know whether the opera d'oro has worse or better sound. But I can recommend my issue with confidence. The minor sound issues hardly distract from the gripping performance.
I have a DVD of the Orange production. The sound is poor, the set is terrible, and the video quality is abysmal. The performance, though, is superb, and Vickers in Act III is insanely good. Seeing him act out the anguish of Tristan as he sings adds an extra dimension. Great stuff.
I am not completely sure but I think I read somewhere that the sound on the CD issue is considerably better than on the DVD. I might even have compared uploaded tracks with parts of it with someone years ago but I do not remember details - I do remember that I discussed this with someone online. Maybe someone here has actually both CD and DVD.
That's a picture of the issue I have
http://www.ebay.de/itm/KARL-BOHM-Nilsson-Vickers-WAGNER-Tristan-und-Isolde-3-CD-Set/262289252884?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20140117130753%26meid%3D7f6748d2bb824926af76a33a7a9a777e%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D4%26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D390581050133 (http://www.ebay.de/itm/KARL-BOHM-Nilsson-Vickers-WAGNER-Tristan-und-Isolde-3-CD-Set/262289252884?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20140117130753%26meid%3D7f6748d2bb824926af76a33a7a9a777e%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D4%26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D390581050133)
I have read that the DVD is from two years later, so the sound etc may well be different. What I have is OK and better than a later Covent Garden Rosenkavalier I got at the same time. So for me the sound quality of the Tristan is perfectly serviceable.
Mike
Checking Amazon, the DVD is described as being 1973, but whether the various dates are accurate, I would not know. All the soloists are the same on DVD and on CD.
The current Bayreuth production of Tristan und Isolde, directed by Katharina Wagner and conducted by Christian Thielemann, will be released on DVD and Blu-Ray by Deutsche Grammophon in July:
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/71JzE-dI1vL._SL1200_.jpg)