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The Music Room => General Classical Music Discussion => Topic started by: eyeresist on September 11, 2011, 02:02:58 AM

Title: The greatest Richard Strauss tone poems not written by Richard Strauss?
Post by: eyeresist on September 11, 2011, 02:02:58 AM
Someone in another thread recently suggested Elgar's In the South (Alassio).

Vaughan Williams' Sinfonia Antartica might also fit this category.

Any other suggestions?


The LIST: (why not?)

Bartok: Kossuth
Bax: Overture to a Picaresque Comedy
Bax: Tintagel
Brian: Doctor Merryheart
Delius: Paris
Elgar: In the South (Alassio)
Elgar: Falstaff
Gliere: Symphony no. 3
Janacek: Taras Bulba
Karlowicz: Stanislaw and Anna
Novak: In the Tatra Mountains
Novak: Lady Godiva
Reznicek: Schlemihl
Schoenberg: Pelleas und Melisande
Suk: A Summer's Tale
Suk: Ripening
Suk: Epilogue
Szymanowski: Concert Overture
Szymanowski: Symphony No. 2
Vaughan Williams: Symphony No. 7 "Sinfonia Antartica"
Webern: Im Sommerwind
Zemlinsky: Die Seejungfrau (The Mermaid)
Title: Re: The greatest Richard Strauss tone poems not written by Richard Strauss?
Post by: J.Z. Herrenberg on September 11, 2011, 02:05:45 AM
Delius, Paris
Karlowicz, Stanislaw and Anna
Title: Re: The greatest Richard Strauss tone poems not written by Richard Strauss?
Post by: Grazioso on September 11, 2011, 05:20:38 AM
Zemlinsky Die Seejungfrau (The Mermaid)
Novak Lady Godiva or In the Tatra Mountains (a bit of that Alpine Symphony vibe)
Title: Re: The greatest Richard Strauss tone poems not written by Richard Strauss?
Post by: The new erato on September 11, 2011, 05:25:09 AM
Quote from: Grazioso on September 11, 2011, 05:20:38 AM
Zemlinsky Die Seejungfrau (The Mermaid)
You stole my post.
Title: Re: The greatest Richard Strauss tone poems not written by Richard Strauss?
Post by: Archaic Torso of Apollo on September 11, 2011, 06:17:41 AM
I nominate Elgar's Falstaff; it's almost like his answer to Strauss' Don Quixote (personality portrait of a literary character, both characters created at approximately the same time, around 1600).
Title: Re: The greatest Richard Strauss tone poems not written by Richard Strauss?
Post by: J.Z. Herrenberg on September 11, 2011, 07:42:36 AM
Quote from: Velimir on September 11, 2011, 06:17:41 AM
I nominate Elgar's Falstaff; it's almost like his answer to Strauss' Don Quixote (personality portrait of a literary character, both characters created at approximately the same time, around 1600).


Brian, Doctor Merryheart, a funny Strauss-meets-Elgar tone poem about a character of Brian's own invention (detailed programme notes exist).
Title: Re: The greatest Richard Strauss tone poems not written by Richard Strauss?
Post by: Daverz on September 11, 2011, 07:58:25 AM
Reznicek's Schlemihl, though Reznicek himself was more of a schlimazel.
Title: Re: The greatest Richard Strauss tone poems not written by Richard Strauss?
Post by: Mirror Image on September 11, 2011, 08:17:12 AM
Quote from: J. Z. Herrenberg on September 11, 2011, 02:05:45 AMDelius, Paris

Now there's a work I haven't revisited in awhile. I remember liking this one very much.
Title: Re: The greatest Richard Strauss tone poems not written by Richard Strauss?
Post by: Mirror Image on September 11, 2011, 08:18:13 AM
An obvious choice: Webern's Im Sommerwind

A more obscure choice: Szymanowski's Concert Overture
Title: Re: The greatest Richard Strauss tone poems not written by Richard Strauss?
Post by: not edward on September 11, 2011, 08:41:46 AM
I'll second Die Seejungfrau and Falstaff.

Add Szymanowski's 2nd symphony if we can overlook it being in two movements. :)
Title: Re: The greatest Richard Strauss tone poems not written by Richard Strauss?
Post by: hafod on September 11, 2011, 10:00:47 AM

Bax: There are quite few to chose from but I will go for Tintagel.
Title: Re: The greatest Richard Strauss tone poems not written by Richard Strauss?
Post by: eyeresist on September 11, 2011, 05:38:02 PM
I have made a List of all suggestion in the original post.

Re Bax, I don't know how Straussian Tintagel actually is. I'd say the obvious candidate is the Overture to a Picaresque Overture. Thoughts on this?
Title: Re: The greatest Richard Strauss tone poems not written by Richard Strauss?
Post by: listener on September 11, 2011, 07:40:41 PM
GLIÈRE  Symphony no. 3   'Ilya Murometz'  and JANÁCEK  Taras Bulba
more than one movement each, but all of the movements have narrative programs.
Title: Re: The greatest Richard Strauss tone poems not written by Richard Strauss?
Post by: Daverz on September 11, 2011, 08:16:34 PM
Quote from: eyeresist on September 11, 2011, 05:38:02 PM
I have made a List of all suggestion in the original post.

Re Bax, I don't know how Straussian Tintagel actually is.

I do!  I do!  Not Straussian in the least!  Whado I win?

The same goes for Ilya Murometz and Taras Bulba.



Title: Re: The greatest Richard Strauss tone poems not written by Richard Strauss?
Post by: eyeresist on September 11, 2011, 08:28:15 PM

Well, once the list fills up, we can have another thread to vote them down again :)
Title: Re: The greatest Richard Strauss tone poems not written by Richard Strauss?
Post by: Brian on September 11, 2011, 08:28:47 PM
I clicked on this thread thinking Rob Newman had made an exciting new discovery.
Title: Re: The greatest Richard Strauss tone poems not written by Richard Strauss?
Post by: eyeresist on September 11, 2011, 08:29:30 PM
LOL!!!


EDIT: Okay, we're not allowed to do lolposts? Then I will add something else... All my posts are written by a secret committee of freemasons, in order to bring about the dreaded ZOG.
Title: Re: The greatest Richard Strauss tone poems not written by Richard Strauss?
Post by: J.Z. Herrenberg on September 11, 2011, 11:43:18 PM
Quote from: Brian on September 11, 2011, 08:28:47 PM
I clicked on this thread thinking Rob Newman had made an exciting new discovery.


Quote from: eyeresist on September 11, 2011, 08:29:30 PM
LOL!!!


EDIT: Okay, we're not allowed to do lolposts? Then I will add something else... All my posts are written by a secret committee of freemasons, in order to bring about the dreaded ZOG.


;D
Title: Re: The greatest Richard Strauss tone poems not written by Richard Strauss?
Post by: mc ukrneal on September 12, 2011, 12:39:53 AM
How can this be? Dvorak and Smetana, perhaps the other two greatest tone poem composers ever, are not even MENTIONED! 1 whip with a wet noodle for all of you!  :o
Title: Re: The greatest Richard Strauss tone poems not written by Richard Strauss?
Post by: eyeresist on September 12, 2011, 12:52:07 AM
Quote from: mc ukrneal on September 12, 2011, 12:39:53 AM
How can this be? Dvorak and Smetana, perhaps the other two greatest tone poem composers ever, are not even MENTIONED!

As much as I love both of them, are they Straussian?

And what exactly do we mean by that?
Title: Re: The greatest Richard Strauss tone poems not written by Richard Strauss?
Post by: mc ukrneal on September 12, 2011, 01:14:45 AM
Quote from: eyeresist on September 12, 2011, 12:52:07 AM
As much as I love both of them, are they Straussian?

And what exactly do we mean by that?
Is the thread title trying ot say that the sound of the tone poems should sould like Strauss? That is not what I understood.
Title: Re: The greatest Richard Strauss tone poems not written by Richard Strauss?
Post by: J.Z. Herrenberg on September 12, 2011, 01:23:45 AM
I understand the title to be - tone poems influenced by the example of Richard Strauss. The composers I mentioned - Delius, Karlowicz and Brian - don't sound like Strauss, but they certainly studied his works and learnt from him (especially his spectacular orchestration).
Title: Re: The greatest Richard Strauss tone poems not written by Richard Strauss?
Post by: Maciek on September 12, 2011, 04:24:52 AM
Well, I don't know. I think that, near the beginning, Stanislaw and Anna actually does sound like Strauss. (Maybe I need to renew my acquaintance with Strauss, though. It's been a while. ;D)
Title: Re: The greatest Richard Strauss tone poems not written by Richard Strauss?
Post by: eyeresist on September 12, 2011, 04:49:05 AM
To be clear, I am asking for music which prompts you to think, "This could almost be Strauss." (This prompted by the observation that Alassio was the greatest tone poem Strauss never wrote.)


And when I said "What do we mean by that?", I meant "What do we mean by the adjective Straussian?", i.e. what are the specifics of his technique, sensibility, sound that we identify as uniquely (or perhaps NOT so uniquely) his.
Title: Re: The greatest Richard Strauss tone poems not written by Richard Strauss?
Post by: J.Z. Herrenberg on September 12, 2011, 05:03:07 AM
Quote from: Maciek on September 12, 2011, 04:24:52 AM
Well, I don't know. I think that, near the beginning, Stanislaw and Anna actually does sound like Strauss. (Maybe I need to renew my acquaintance with Strauss, though. It's been a while. ;D )


Hm. I think you're right (playing it inside my head now). But the total effect and atmosphere of the work is Karlowiczian. Although Karlowicz certainly took some pointers in orchestral technique from his German contemporary, especially in this work.
Title: Re: The greatest Richard Strauss tone poems not written by Richard Strauss?
Post by: Mirror Image on September 12, 2011, 11:21:18 AM
Two more picks: Schoenberg's Pelleas und Melisande and Bartok's Kossuth.
Title: Re: The greatest Richard Strauss tone poems not written by Richard Strauss?
Post by: eyeresist on September 12, 2011, 07:29:47 PM
I have updated the List.

After listening to Bax's Tintagel again, I admit I can hear resemblances to the Alpensinfonie.
Title: Re: The greatest Richard Strauss tone poems not written by Richard Strauss?
Post by: Dax on September 13, 2011, 02:05:09 AM
Quote from: eyeresist on September 11, 2011, 02:02:58 AM
Szymanowski: Concert Overture
Szymanowski: Symphony No. 2

Tone poems?   :o
Title: Re: The greatest Richard Strauss tone poems not written by Richard Strauss?
Post by: Wanderer on September 13, 2011, 03:03:27 AM
Suk's tone poems (A Summer's Tale, Ripening, Epilogue) should also be considered.