Hi all
I am wanting to start listening to opera, but I find the more intense operatic vocals a little confronting haha. I was wondering if I could get some recommendations for some good places to start? I have recently been listening to the Marriage of Figaro if that helps at all, I would probably like something somewhat along the same lines as that to begin with.
Thanks in advance, let me know if I need to provide any more information! ;D
Welcome! I should suggest two short operas:
Stravinsky, Mavra (based on a comic verse-drama by Pushkin)
Britten, Albert Herring
Bizet's Carmen is fanous for being opera which non-opera-lovers can love, as well.
Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on September 16, 2011, 06:27:24 AM
Bizet's Carmen is famous for being opera which non-opera-lovers can love, as well.
It worked for me. I started with
Figaro also, then
Don Giovanni, then
Carmen. It was a wonderful progression. :)
8)
I always recommend two operas for those looking to get into it (with the third being Figaro):
Puccini - La Boheme (already mentioned)
Humperdinck - Hansel and Gretel (simply glorious music)
Both are not overlong and have wonderful music/songs. Knowing a story before you watch can be helpful too (a plus for Hansel and Gretel).
Quote from: mc ukrneal on September 16, 2011, 06:56:20 AM
I always recommend two operas for those looking to get into it (with the third being Figaro):
Puccini - La Boheme (already mentioned)
Humperdinck - Hansel and Gretel (simply glorious music)
Both are not overlong and have wonderful music/songs. Knowing a story before you watch can be helpful too (a plus for Hansel and Gretel).
I need to hear the whole of the Humperdinck; I was at a concert performance of one scene, and it was ravishing.
And I agree that Puccini is for many an excellent introduction to opera . . . which fact (despite of the scorn in which some hold him) must, I think, testify to the power of his talent.
Richard Strauss: Elektra
Arnold Schoenberg: Erwartung
Two short operas (90 minutes and 40 minutes) offering beauty and intensity of emotion.
Puccini: Tosca !
consider opera arias, you will find some great material in this double disc:
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51DUQkVs8KL._SL500_AA300_.jpg)
I'm not a big opera fan myself, but I have been able to appreciate the genre with a few that I've come to actually enjoy:
Wagner: Tristan und Isolde
Wagner: The Ring
Wagner: Parsifal
Bartok: Bluebeard's Castle
Debussy: Pelleas et Melisande
Ravel: L'Enfant et les sortileges
There are so many terrific complete recordings of so many different operas and a growing number of them on DVD.
Be sure to use the English subtitles on DVDs, which you can access from the Menu. Also, most, but not all CDs of complete
operas have a booklet with the synopsis of the opera and an English translation of the libretto along side the words in the
original language.
You can also download English translations of the librettos at the Naxos records website. You should find any of these popular operas highly enjoyable : La Boheme,Tosca ,Madama Butterfly ahnd Turandot of Puccini, La Traviata,Rigoletto, Il Trovatore, Aida, Otello,
and Don Carlo of Verdi, Cavalleria Rusticanan of Pietro Mascagni and Pagliacci of Ruggero Leoncavallo, Carmen by Bizet,
Don Giovanni, The marriage of Figaro, and the Magic Flute of Mozart, Orfeo &Euridice of Christoph Willibald Gluck ,
Fidelio by Beethoven, Der Freischutz (the free shooter) by Carl maria von Weber, Les Contes D'Hoffmann(The tales of Hoffmann)
by Offenbach, Manon ,Werther and Thais of Jules Massenet, Faust and Roemeo&Juliette by Charles Gounod,
Andrea Chenier by Umberto Giordano, La Gioconda by Ponchielli, Mefistofele by Arrigo Boito, Lucia di Lammermoor, Don Pasquale and L'Elisir D'Amore (The elixir of love) by Gaetano Donizetti, Il Barbiere di Siviglia, La Cenerentola (Cinderella) ,and L'Italiana in Algeri
by Rssini, Norma, I Puritani and La Sonnambula by Vincenzo Bellini, Boris Godunov by Modest Mussorgsky, Yevgeny Onegin by Tchaikovsky , The Bartred Bride by Bedrich Smetana, Rusalka by Dvorak , and Jenufa by Leos Janacek, etc .
Wagner is a must, but it's best to try these other opera fist before you get involved with his music. It can be very difficult for opera newbies to get into.
Get CDs by such great singers as maria Callas,Joan Sutherland,Luciano Pavarotti,Marilyn Horne, Placido Domingo, Sherill Milnes,
Birgit Nilsson, Christa Ludwig, Nicolai Ghiaurov,Montserrat Caballe, Reanta Scotto, Giuseppe Di Stefano, Tito Gobbi,Leontyne Price,
Mirella Freni, Dietrich Fischer-Dieskau, and others, and conductors such as Solti,Karajan , Levine, Muti, Barenboim, Maazel,Mackerras, Gergiev, Carlos Kleiber, etc. You'll never regret becoming an opera fan ! Opera is as addictive as drugs, but a heck of a lot safer !
Quote from: spikesebrog363 on September 16, 2011, 04:53:49 AM
Hi all
I am wanting to start listening to opera, but I find the more intense operatic vocals a little confronting haha. I was wondering if I could get some recommendations for some good places to start?...
Anything by Mozart, as you're already discovering. The two other big Mozart operas are Don Giovanni and The Magic Flute.
Rossini's operas generally call for lighter, less "confrontational" voices. The Barber of Seville is probably his best-known.
And if you like slightly more "contemporary" classical music, Stravinsky's Le Rossignol is really lovely.
Anything by Verdi is probably okay, but I'd suggest leaving Wagner's "music dramas" until you're already heels-over-head in love with the medium. Oh, and "The Medium" by Gian Carlo Menotti is very nice too. ;D And anything by Benjamin Britten is more than worth hearing--and seeing.
Ha! A thread on operas to introduce someone to opera that includes Parsifal!
Quote from: bigshot on October 01, 2011, 10:52:36 AM
Ha! A thread on operas to introduce someone to opera that includes Parsifal!
Yeah, Parsifal is definitely "hard-core" opera. ;D
Just chiming in to agree with the consensus: Carmen! Don Giovanni is a fantastic introduction too. Those are probably the top picks, REALLY easy to love them both, along with Puccini - my first opera ever was Madame Butterfly, but then I don't listen to opera very much so maybe it doesn't work ;D
Two other suggestions people have made, L'enfant et les sortileges and Hansel und Gretel, are pretty much operas for kids which just happen to be gorgeous and very funny and happy-making and not at all intense or hard to follow. I wouldn't make them somebody's very first opera, though, as L'enfant has lots of goofy stuff like singers pretending to be cats and Hansel has a couple fairly dry scenes before the totally stunning heart-overflowing music Hansel and Gretel sing in Act 2... (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V6Fr3I4fUAo)
Quote from: jochanaan on September 22, 2011, 02:50:05 PMI'd suggest leaving Wagner's "music dramas" until you're already heels-over-head in love with the medium.
I'm not a huge fan of opera and I love Wagner's operas in particular
The Ring,
Parsifal, and
Tristan und Isolde. I don't think a person needs to be completely in love with opera to enjoy Wagner. I'm proof of this notion.
Quote from: Mirror Image on October 01, 2011, 08:33:18 PM
I'm not a huge fan of opera and I love Wagner's operas in particular The Ring, Parsifal, and Tristan und Isolde.
But, neither were you new to opera, see thread title.
Quote from: Brian on October 01, 2011, 02:13:59 PM
Two other suggestions people have made, L'enfant et les sortileges and Hansel und Gretel, are pretty much operas for kids which just happen to be gorgeous and very funny and happy-making and not at all intense or hard to follow...
I've highlighted the part that makes, in my opinion, for an ideal introduction to opera for most people. Opera in itself is a big adjustment for most people, so the easier and more fun it is, the more they are likely to return to it. The other element I would add is that is should not be an overlong opera.
Also, Hansel is not dry at any point - it is a fairly continuous movement. When you watch it, it is not static (if done well at any rate). And just because the story is a kids story does not make it an opera for kids. I think that is entirely the wrong way to think of this opera.
Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on October 02, 2011, 03:36:25 AM
But, neither were you new to opera, see thread title.
Actually, I'm still completely a novice when it comes opera. The first opera I heard was Bartok's
Bluebeard and prior to that, I had heard nothing. Wagner was my second going at opera. He made me appreciate the music as an art form. Bartok's, while incredible in it's own right, wasn't that far removed from a work like his
Cantata Profana, but
Bluebeard obviously doesn't have a choir.
My favorite opera is The Cunning Little Vixen. It's out of the "mainstream", but, well, mainstream schmainstream. ;)
And I prefer the recording below the more usually recommended Mackerras. And the DVD/Bluray shown is a very good production.
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51h5cyDi2WL._SL500_AA300_.jpg)(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51tE%2Bkgb3VL._SL500_AA300_.jpg)
Bartok's Bluebeard's Castle, with only 2 characters, is an opera perfect for recordings.
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/61-DJeaUN6L._SL500_AA300_.jpg)
Quote from: Daverz on October 02, 2011, 10:02:40 AM
My favorite opera is The Cunning Little Vixen. It's out of the "mainstream", but, well, mainstream schmainstream. ;)
And I prefer the recording below the more usually recommended Mackerras. And the DVD/Bluray shown is a very good production.
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51h5cyDi2WL._SL500_AA300_.jpg)(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51tE%2Bkgb3VL._SL500_AA300_.jpg)
Having just become acquainted with this opera in the past year, I think
The Cunning Little Vixen would be great for someone new to opera. And of the others mentioned,
L'enfant et les sortilèges would be a good choice, too. But then, recommending something would also depend on the new listener's hesitations about the genre (if any). I have some friends who just hate sopranos - no matter what they're singing. (I don't get it, but there you go.) :o
--Bruce
Quote from: Daverz on October 02, 2011, 10:02:40 AM
Bartok's Bluebeard's Castle, with only 2 characters, is an opera perfect for recordings.
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/61-DJeaUN6L._SL500_AA300_.jpg)
Pounds the table! The best
Bluebeard on record IMHO.
Off the top of my head:
Rossini--Barber of Seville and Cenerentola (which is after all the Cinderella story)
Mozart--Zauberflote and Figaro (Don Giovanni is a bit sprawling and could easily confuse a newcomer)
Verdi--Otello, especially if you are already familiar with Shakespeare, and La Traviata
Wagner--Hollander and Rheingold
Puccini--Tosca, La Boheme, and Turandot
Britten--Peter Grimes or Billy Budd (assuming we are dealing with an Anglophone)
and finally, Cav./Pag. where would an opera house be without them?
and possibly Boris Godunov
I've never seen Vixen, and Bluebeard's Castle is, I think, not really for a newcomer, unless that newcomer happens to speak Hungarian--it's essentially a long dialogue between two characters (with orchestral participation) with almost no stage action. I think L'enfant et les Sortileges has too many characters running around to be easily grasped. Hansel and Gretel, on the other hand, makes good sense to me as a first opera.
Quote from: Jeffrey Smith on October 02, 2011, 08:23:09 PM
Bluebeard's Castle is, I think, not really for a newcomer, unless that newcomer happens to speak Hungarian
Then one needs to speak German to appreciate Wagner, Italian to appreciate Verdi, and Russian to appreciate Mussorgsky.
Quote
--it's essentially a long dialogue between two characters (with orchestral participation) with almost no stage action.
This is the point. It's easy to follow the action with just libretto and translation in hand.
Wagner's operas (or better "music dramas") are masterpieces, so intense, poetic and powerful, they're absolutely worthy of being listened; but Wagner's music also needs great concentration to be completely appreciated, and the operas are very long, maybe they're not the more suitable choice to start with opera........
Beethoven's "Fidelio" is very beautiful, and so are Mozart's "Don Giovanni" and "Die Die Zauberflöte".
Ilaria
Quote from: Brewski on October 02, 2011, 10:26:26 AM
Having just become acquainted with this opera in the past year, I think The Cunning Little Vixen would be great for someone new to opera...
I agree. Sadly, I'm not familiar with the entire opera, but I've played the orchestral suite, and it's just gorgeous. 8)
Quote from: Daverz on October 03, 2011, 01:17:05 PM
Then one needs to speak German to appreciate Wagner, Italian to appreciate Verdi, and Russian to appreciate Mussorgsky.
No. The problem with Bluebeard's Castle is that it's essentially a pscyhodrama. A man and a woman talk, woman walks around opening doors and describing what she sees, and finally she disappears through one of the doors. There's not any real action, and no other characters to interrupt the flow of the conversation: it's a dialogue opera, pure and simple.
Which means:
Quote
This is the point. It's easy to follow the action with just libretto and translation in hand.
is actually the reverse of what I consider best for a first hearing. In fact, a libretto with translation is necessary, and that means distraction, an obstacle to actually
hearing the opera.
I'd want a a first listen to need nothing more than having read a detailed synopses (including references to musical highlights) in order to understand what's going on. Libretti are for re-hearing.
Quote from: Jeffrey Smith on October 03, 2011, 07:03:14 PM
No. The problem with Bluebeard's Castle is that it's essentially a pscyhodrama. A man and a woman talk, woman walks around opening doors and describing what she sees, and finally she disappears through one of the doors. There's not any real action, and no other characters to interrupt the flow of the conversation: it's a dialogue opera, pure and simple.
Which means:
is actually the reverse of what I consider best for a first hearing. In fact, a libretto with translation is necessary, and that means distraction, an obstacle to actually hearing the opera.
I'd want a a first listen to need nothing more than having read a detailed synopses (including references to musical highlights) in order to understand what's going on. Libretti are for re-hearing.
Well Jeffrey, I eased right into
Bluebeard with no problems. Apart of appreciating opera is understanding the composer's style before you even listen to the opera. In many cases, people find it easier to get into a highlights recording first before getting into the opera. These usually serve as templates, if you will, for helping them understand the harmonic, melodic outline of the music. The reason I thought
Bluebeard is an easier opera to appreciate is for the simple fact that the singing and the music itself are intertwined and so important to each other, that it can become a work that creates a bridge that's easier to cross for the new listener.
Quote from: Mirror Image on October 03, 2011, 07:54:17 PM
Well Jeffrey, I eased right into Bluebeard with no problems. Apart of appreciating opera is understanding the composer's style before you even listen to the opera. In many cases, people find it easier to get into a highlights recording first before getting into the opera. These usually serve as templates, if you will, for helping them understand the harmonic, melodic outline of the music. The reason I thought Bluebeard is an easier opera to appreciate is for the simple fact that the singing and the music itself are intertwined and so important to each other, that it can become a work that creates a bridge that's easier to cross for the new listener.
You eased into it right away--but I don't remember (or perhaps you never mentioned) how early in your acquaintance with Bartok did you first listen to
Bluebeard's Castle? Weren't you already acquainted with his overall style before you heard a note of the opera?
I would suggest, at any rate, that you have an above average awareness of Bartok's style--above average in comparison to the general musical listener, that is. Your average opera goer in the mezzanine seat might not react so favorable to it. (And, come to think of it, I'm not sure I would suggest anything by Bartok to anyone who's fairly new to classical music.)
At any rate, unless the person involved already has some experience of Bartok, I wouldn't recommend it to a beginner in opera, at least in the CD version. (A DVD with subtitles turned on would probably work, however. Do you know of a good DVD version of
Bluebeard?
Quote from: Jeffrey Smith on October 03, 2011, 08:26:51 PM
You eased into it right away--but I don't remember (or perhaps you never mentioned) how early in your acquaintance with Bartok did you first listen to Bluebeard's Castle? Weren't you already acquainted with his overall style before you heard a note of the opera?
I would suggest, at any rate, that you have an above average awareness of Bartok's style--above average in comparison to the general musical listener, that is. Your average opera goer in the mezzanine seat might not react so favorable to it. (And, come to think of it, I'm not sure I would suggest anything by Bartok to anyone who's fairly new to classical music.)
At any rate, unless the person involved already has some experience of Bartok, I wouldn't recommend it to a beginner in opera, at least in the CD version. (A DVD with subtitles turned on would probably work, however. Do you know of a good DVD version of Bluebeard?
I've been in love with Bartok's music for many years and I have more than an "above average" awareness of his style or should I say styles, because his music fell into three distinct periods. I came to
Bluebeard last because I'm not an opera fan and I'm still not entirely convinced by this medium.
You or I certainly can't predict what the listener will perceive, but I gave my reasons for thinking
Bluebeard is a great place to start and I'm sticking to that opinion.
Quote from: Jeffrey Smith on October 03, 2011, 07:03:14 PM
No.
Right. No language issues in Wagner, Verdi or Mussorgsky.
Quote
The problem with Bluebeard's Castle is that it's essentially a pscyhodrama.
It's also short, and beautifully written and orchestrated.
Quote from: Daverz on October 06, 2011, 11:13:04 AM
Right. No language issues in Wagner, Verdi or Mussorgsky.
It's also short, and beautifully written and orchestrated.
You're missing the point. The problem for a neophyte with Bluebeard's Castle is that there's nothing which will clue him in on what's going on, unless he sits and stares at the libretto. The closest you have to a obvious highlight is the opening of the doors to each room. Dramaturgically, it's static. Two people have a conversation; at the end, one of them moves off into another room and is never seen again. Period.
Wagner, Verdi, Mussourgsky don't have that problem. Different characters--meaning different voices--changes of scene--duets and ensemble pieces (in V.), choral scenes (especially in Boris Godunov), arias and monologues. There's musical and dramatic differences along the way that will clue in the listener, as long as he/she has read a sufficiently detailed plot synopses beforehand--but doesn't need a libretto or synopses in hand while listening.
Quote
The problem for a neophyte with Bluebeard's Castle is that there's nothing which will clue him in on what's going on,
Of course there is: the opera is structured around the opening of the doors. The emotional import of each door is also expressed very well by the music. The stages are easy to follow.
The argument is kind of silly because there's no pat answer for what opera someone will find accessible. You seem to think you can find some universal set of criteria, but any such criteria should be worn very lightly because as we've seen again and again here they often just don't work at all for other people.
Quote from: spikesebrog363 on September 16, 2011, 04:53:49 AMI am wanting to start listening to opera, but I find the more intense operatic vocals a little confronting haha. I was wondering if I could get some recommendations for some good places to start?
See my username. Worked for me (as an opera newcomer, afraid of the operatic
shrieking). I was enchanted.
http://www.youtube.com/v/p5enleDbQlY
Also,
Satyagraha, if you're open to contemporary stuff. 11 / 19 on Met in HD.
Plus another vote for liška Bystrouška aka
Cunning Little Vixen. Just charming!
Quote from: Daverz on October 06, 2011, 02:35:41 PM
The argument is kind of silly because there's no pat answer for what opera someone will find accessible. You seem to think you can find some universal set of criteria, but any such criteria should be worn very lightly because as we've seen again and again here they often just don't work at all for other people.
Literally, you re correct. But practically, I entirely disagree. And that is why there is this back and forth. For a significant majority of people, I think the criteria is something 'simple' and light, not too long, melodic, easy/clear/understandable story, and fun or funny. This is why I recommend Boheme and H&G, but this will entirely depend on the person. And this is a 'pat' answer in that it is the first answer knowing absolutely nothing else about the person.
I believe our diffrerences lie more with what criteria are being used and the priority of each in making a particular recommendation. For example, I think Mussorgsky is not ideal because of length issues. I think Jeffrey has hit upon the criteria for why I would not recommend Bluebeard as a first for most people. I also think Fidelio is too serious for most people. But this is also why I don't mind Don Giovanni or Figaro as a recommendation - they are too long, but they have everything else in spades (especially the funny bit).
BUT, if we know more abut the individual, these criteria will change and so I value the other suggestions as different ways to get into opera.
With no feedback from the OP it's hard to know how the recommendations are going down, but I can't resist adding my four-pennyworth:
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51ojFCkvXFL._SL500_AA300_.jpg)
Ignored and often rejected because Puccini didn't have time to get the ending right before he shuffled off this mortal coil, nevertheless this opera's first two Acts are full of the most delectable, bitter-sweet melodies that intertwine and beguile - to the extent that all other operas may (temporarily) seem a little stiff. (And if the term 'bitter-sweet melodies' seems not-your-thing, you know you can stop reading now.) If someone had played this to me 40 years ago, my music-listening life might have been very different. As it is, they played me Gotterdammerung highlights, so it was still OK, but not the same.
Anyway, my point about La Rondine is not just that it's so damn gorgeous: it's that because the third Act is a bit of a shambles, you don't need to bother about it, and can just listen to the first two over and over again, and still be happy ever after because the second Act closes on a beautiful upbeat. So that old problem of commitment to the Big Slog (which opera can seem to demand) leading to the miserable ending, is absent.
http://www.youtube.com/v/0pjtsmV7FqM
Go on, fall in love with Magda. You know you want to.
Hard to go wrong with Smetana's The Bartered Bride. Its greatness lies in its understated excitement. The overture alone is a glorious listen:
http://www.youtube.com/v/4hLtLN87I90
A tender duet:
http://www.youtube.com/v/xjI8nvUqLFo&feature=related
More standard fare:
http://www.youtube.com/v/GBsguaQSXcY&feature=related
The recording with Benacková (who's featured in the above Youtube clips) is marvelous:
[asin]B00000DFNA[/asin]
Quote from: Dancing Divertimentian on October 08, 2011, 05:46:24 PM
Hard to go wrong with Smetana's The Bartered Bride. Its greatness lies in its understated excitement. The overture alone is a glorious listen:
http://www.youtube.com/v/4hLtLN87I90
And a magnificent performance, although I'm sorry to say I don't recognize the conductor...? Obviously someone major but not a familiar face. But yes, The Bartered Bride's overture has been one of my favorite pieces from childhood. 8) (And it's not easy to play either! Like Mozart's music, it doesn't leave any room for error, and I can imagine that even the top orchestras can't take it for granted... :o)
Quote from: jochanaan on October 10, 2011, 11:13:27 AM
And a magnificent performance, although I'm sorry to say I don't recognize the conductor...? Obviously someone major but not a familiar face.
I'm pretty sure that's Karel Ancerl. The famous Czech conductor.
Quote from: jochanaan on October 10, 2011, 11:13:27 AM
And a magnificent performance, although I'm sorry to say I don't recognize the conductor...? Obviously someone major but not a familiar face.
It's Vaclav Neumann (sorry, MI :)).
Yes, major Czech conductor....not
necessarily specializing in Czech music although that's all I have him in. First rate all the way
QuoteBut yes, The Bartered Bride's overture has been one of my favorite pieces from childhood. 8) (And it's not easy to play either! Like Mozart's music, it doesn't leave any room for error, and I can imagine that even the top orchestras can't take it for granted... :o)
The similarities to Mozart are indeed striking: precise, exacting, yet relying on something of a soft touch for maximum effect.
Quote from: Dancing Divertimentian on October 10, 2011, 08:52:26 PM
It's Vaclav Neumann (sorry, MI :)).
Oh, that's cool. I had my doubts of who it was. I wasn't 100% sure.
Another wonderful Czech opera is Dvorak's Rusalka, a poignant and haunting fairy tale story about a water sprite who falls in love with a handsome young prince. She goes to a sorceress in order to be transformed into a human, be3cause humans cannot see water sprites,
but the price she pays is that she is unable to speak in human form.
The prince fall s in love with her, but out of frustration decides to marry a foreign princess. Because of this, he is doomed to die, and Ruusalka returns to her former existence.
Not exactly a feel good opera, but the music is is so gorgeous you can't help but fall under its spell.
The recording to get is on Decca,with Renee Fleming in the title role and Ben Heppener as the ill-fated prince, with Mackerras and the Czech Philharmonic. There is also a DVD from the Paris opera with Fleming, conducted by James Conlon.