GMG Classical Music Forum

Thought it would be a fun and an interesting idea to find out the average top 5 Mahler movements of our GMG community! :)
Get voting!

What a lovely long poll this is... ;)
I shall start off and vote for... (this is rather hard for me....)... no.1 m4, no.6 m1+4, no.8 part 2, no.9 m4.
That took me a long time to work out... I love all the Mahler movements!

Looking forward to seeing some results.

Very interesting question, but a very hard choice as well!  :)

I voted for No.1 1st & 2nd movement, No.6 1st movement, No.8 part1 and No.9 4th movement.
I would have liked to include the Trauermarsch and Scherzo from No.5 too......

Quote from: Lisztianwagner on October 10, 2011, 09:05:41 AM
Very interesting question, but a very hard choice as well!  :)

I voted for No.1 1st & 2nd movement, No.6 1st movement, No.8 part1 and No.9 4th movement.
I would have liked to include the Trauermarsch and Scherzo from No.5 too......

Yes, certainly is a rather hard question to answer!
Nice choices, I love the first movement of no.1 as well, so naturual and beautiful. But I just had to vote for the finale to no.6 instead, so powerful... So many other movements I would have wanted to vote for as well!

Difficult, yep  ;D

A lot of my choices are personal as I love everything written by Mahler.

Sym No.1 - 1st Mvt (Doesn't get any happier than this!!)
Sym No.2 - 5th Mvt (Joyous, uplifting wether you are religious, a believer or not)
Sym No.4 - 3rd Mvt ('Ruhevoll' (always found the opening 5 mins of this movement very sad, personally))
Sym No.5 - 4th Mvt ('Adagietto' (simple, effective, bit of love for strings...)) I prefer the 10 to 12 minute drawn out versions.
Sym No.9 - 5th Mvt (What a finale, if the 2nd symphony is uplifting, this brings the world down as we fade away to nothingness, purely amazing).

Quote from: AnthonyAthletic on October 10, 2011, 09:23:19 AM
Difficult, yep  ;D

A lot of my choices are personal as I love everything written by Mahler.

Sym No.1 - 1st Mvt (Doesn't get any happier than this!!)
Sym No.2 - 5th Mvt (Joyous, uplifting wether you are religious, a believer or not)
Sym No.4 - 3rd Mvt ('Ruhevoll' (always found the opening 5 mins of this movement very sad, personally))
Sym No.5 - 4th Mvt ('Adagietto' (simple, effective, bit of love for strings...)) I prefer the 10 to 12 minute drawn out versions.
Sym No.9 - 5th Mvt (What a finale, if the 2nd symphony is uplifting, this brings the world down as we fade away to nothingness, purely amazing).

Nice choices! Thank you for giving your reasons as well, I was too lazy to do that. ;) An excellent statement about the finale to no.9, such an amazing piece...

Quote from: madaboutmahler on October 10, 2011, 09:21:51 AM
I just had to vote for the finale to no.6 instead, so powerful...

I perfectly understand, I really love the finale of Mahler No.6 as well, it's very intense and thrilling!

You could also add Das Lied von der Erde in the list; it is true that it is not part of the Mahler Cycle, but theorically it is considered a symphony.

Symphony 1 - 3 (the movement that made Mahler Mahler)

Symphony 2 - 1

Symphony 3 - 1

Symphony 4 - 3

Symphony 6 - 3 (Andante)


Sarge

Quote from: Sergeant Rock on October 10, 2011, 09:50:14 AM
Symphony 1 - 3 (the movement that made Mahler Mahler)

Symphony 2 - 1

Symphony 3 - 1

Symphony 4 - 4

Symphony 6 - 3 (Andante)


Sarge

Thanks for voting, Sarge. Excellent choices. I feel guilty about leaving out all of those you mention!

only 5 picks ? ... grrrrrrrr.... !!!   ;D


Mahler 1 - 4th mvt - my original gateway into Mahler

Mahler 2 - 1st mvt - my absolute addiction...the benchmark movement by which all cycles and versions are judged.

Mahler 3 - 4th mvt - O Meeeeensch...

Mahler 5 - 1st mvt - The trumpet...

mahler 6 - 1st mvt - backup addiction, just in case.

Das Lied von der Erde should be part of it. It was meant to be a symphony.

4-4
Had to pick at least one movement from my fave symphony: I opted for the comforting and uplifting finale (Elly Ameling my fave soprano in this one), although in fact I like all four movements in an almost equal way.

5-3
This horn concerto has amazed me since the first hearing. Of course, the trumpet and drum rolls of the Trauermarsch are impressive, but musically this Scherzo takes me to .... dunno really. Heard this piece live once in the Amsterdam Concertgebouw: such a great experience.

6-4
One of the most impressive finales I've heard. This constantly trying to rush on the Olympus, and being denied again and again. I must admit that I don't listen to this as often as I should. Or maybe just often enough. ;)

7-1
Even though there are no vocals: it's Mahler complete. Nuff said.

9-1
The universe at the edge of dying, yet resisting with all its might. Great intense movement. Leaves me exhausted every time.

Unexpectedly, I voted for 4 first movements: 3,5,7, and 8. And then it was between the first of #2 and the #5 Adagietto. I went for the adagietto. It was the #2 that really captured my interest in Mahler before I really started to listen to his symphonies. But the adagietto always reminds me of Inspector Morse. Maybe a silly association, but there you have it.

2: III (In ruhig fließender Bewegung)
— Even more so than the Scherzo of the First, this is the archetypal Mahlerian Scherzo (and I especially love the collage version of it in Berio's Sinfonia)

5: II (Stürmish bewegt, mit größter Vehemenz)
— Brilliant decision to ratchet up the tension, and make the first movement funeral march even more emphatic. Also for its brilliant climax where the brass chorale surfaces for the first time in the work.

8: I. Teil: Veni, creator spiritus
— Perfect adaptation of sonata form and choral symphony. Chuck in the "Isoliert postiert" at the end of the work and send the choir further up into stratosphere for the win.

9: II. (Im Tempo eines gemächlichen Ländlers)
— Capturing all the sardonic, cynical, jaded, relaxed, humorous, pensive and angry moods of Mahler by turns, while showing off brilliant orchestration as always...

9: III. (Rondo-Burleske. Allegro assai. Sehr trotzig)
— ... followed by a truly remarkable exhibition of all Mahler's compositional power.

And the first Scherzo from the Tenth (10: II) would edge out the corresponding movement of the Second, had the pollster been considerate enough to include all of the movements (and Das Lied von der Erde, as another commenter mentioned).

2- I, V
6- IV
9- I, IV


Man, other than the two from 9, deciding was extremely hard, and pretty much would depend on the day.
If anything, this can give us a clue to what people here's favorite movement might be overall... so far, the opening of the 7th.  :o

Symphony No. 2 - movement VI, "Urlicht" - with or without the rest of symphony, "Urlicht" is one of the loveliest five minutes you could experience.

Symphony No. 3 - movement I - on its own is longer than Beethoven's 5th, and displays Mahler's ability to punch the listener in the face with a wall of sound. Might also contain classical music's best trombone solo, or at least the most "want to be played" solo, or so I've been told.

Symphony No. 4 - movement III - if you ever needed a soundtrack for "reflecting on life", this may be the piece. Sublime.

Symphony No. 7 - movement III, Scherzo - Fun, that just about sums it up, pure fun.

Symphony No. 9 - movement I - for all the love that the finale of No.9 gets, some of that love must be given to the road that brought our emotions to this point. It's sad, it's optimistic, it's ethereal, it's Mahler. Dare I say the best of the best?

Symphony No.9 mvt 1 - my absolutely favorite

Symphony No.9 mvt 4
Symphony No.3 mvt 6
Symphony No.7 mvt 2
Symphony No.10 Adagio

Alas there was no posibility to vote for Der Abschied.

Mahler 6 (1) A grinding tour de force with alternate longing
            6 (3) For me the most heart rending movement in all Mahler
             7 (1) Over the top perhaps but very exciting
             9 (1) Mahler bearing his inner soul - so moving
             9 (3) Crazy and angry and mind blowing

Outer movements of 9
Last movement of 6
Last movement of 7
First movement of 1

Sadly I only know the fifth, but there are five brilliant movements in that one alone.

Quote from: mszczuj on October 11, 2011, 07:07:17 AM
Symphony No.9 mvt 1 - my absolutely favorite

Symphony No.9 mvt 4
Symphony No.3 mvt 6
Symphony No.7 mvt 2
Symphony No.10 Adagio

Alas there was no posibility to vote for Der Abschied.

Good choices. (If I may say so.)
And I share your feelings about 'Der Abschied'.

Quote from: North Star on October 11, 2011, 10:04:57 AM
Sadly I only know the fifth, but there are five brilliant movements in that one alone.

Yep.

And you know what: who knows what kinds of expierences may lie ahead, with 8 (or 9) symphonies yet to discover. :)

Quote from: Marc on October 11, 2011, 10:07:16 AM
Good choices. (If I may say so.)
And I share your feelings about 'Der Abschied'.

Can we send in a petition to change the rules? Can we? Huh?

Quote from: Marc on October 11, 2011, 10:10:29 AM
Yep.

And you know what: who knows what kinds of expierences may lie ahead, with 8 (or 9) symphonies yet to discover. :)

Absolutely, I'll be buying a cycle (probably Bertini) in summer, and explore. It'll have to wait for a while since they are no small pieces. I have heard the 1st live and know the Fifth quite well, even though I haven't been listening to it lately.

Quote from: springrite on October 11, 2011, 10:13:43 AM
Can we send in a petition to change the rules? Can we? Huh?

Huh?

Yeah, make it a Top 10 Mahler Movements poll, including Das Lied von der Erde.
And then start all over again.

There's an embarrassing lack of Mahler threads on this board! ;D

Quote from: North Star on October 11, 2011, 10:15:42 AM
Absolutely, I'll be buying a cycle (probably Bertini) in summer, and explore. It'll have to wait for a while since they are no small pieces. I have heard the 1st live and know the Fifth quite well, even though I haven't been listening to it lately.

Bertini's a very good choice IMO.

Tough to pick just 5, but currently here they are:

S2 - Final mvt.

S3 - Final mvt.

S5 - Adagietto

S6 - Andante moderato

S9 - Final mvt.

Quote from: TheGSMoeller on October 10, 2011, 08:39:35 PM
Symphony No. 9 - movement I - for all the love that the finale of No.9 gets, some of that love must be given to the road that brought our emotions to this point. It's sad, it's optimistic, it's ethereal, it's Mahler. Dare I say the best of the best?

If I had to judge everything thing by "absolute quality" (whatever that is), I would choose this movement to be the "best" thing ever written, even though the last movement is my favorite.

Quote from: Marc on October 11, 2011, 10:17:56 AM
Huh?

Yeah, make it a Top 10 Mahler Movements poll, including Das Lied von der Erde.
And then start all over again.

There's an embarrassing lack of Mahler threads on this board! ;D

Sorry for the wait, the new poll has now been created, with 10 votes being the limit and Das Lied in the options!
Please all get voting! ;)

I am bumping this thread because I was just thinking of this question.

I voted for for "Der Abscheid" from Das Lied von der Erde without realizing I could have voted four more times.   ???

And I am not ashamed to admit loving the Adagietto from the 5th.   0:)

1st of the 9th and Adagio from 10th also are on my list.  But there are some suggestions in this thread that I will now go and hunt up, e.g. Symphony No. 4 - movement III

;)

Symphony No. 2: III (In ruhig fließender Bewegung)

Symphony No. 6: II (Andante moderato)

Symphony No. 8: II. Teil: Schlußszene aus Goethes "Faust II"

Symphony No. 9: III (Rondo - Burleske: Allegro assai. Sehr trotzig)

Symphony No. 10: I (Andante - Adagio)



Backup choices:

Symphony No. 1: IV (Stürmisch bewegt)
Symphony No. 2: I (Allegro maestoso. Mit durchaus ernstem und feierlichem Ausdruck)
Symphony No. 2: V (Im Tempo des Scherzos)
Symphony No. 3: VI (Langsam. Ruhevoll. Empfunden)
Symphony No. 8: I. Teil: Hymnus "Veni, creator spiritus"
Symphony No. 9: I (Andante comodo)
Symphony No. 10: II (Scherzo I)
Symphony No. 10: III (Purgatorio)
Das Lied von der Erde: VI (Der Abschied)

Didn't have to think about this one too much:

#2 - 3rd Movement
#5 - 4th Movement
#6 - 3rd Movement (Andante)
#7 - 1st Movement
#9 - 1st Movement

The 3 first choices are clear for me: outer movements of #9 and "Der Abschied". After this there are too many; not to focus entirely on late pieces I picked 6,i and 5,iii. But the rest of #9, #10 adagio, #2,i, #4,iii or #6 andante would also have been good options.

#1: 3rd;
#2: 1st;
#6: 1st;
#6: 4th;
#9: 1st.

9:I - 10:I - 4:I - 4:III - 1:III

So many options, yet the finale of the 10th is excluded.  :-\

Another poll where I can not just pick five.

Yes, the other four movements of Mahler 10 should be included here, if the Adagio is going to be. The work is standard repertoire in its five-movement form now. It's all or nothing.

However, for the purposes of this I have picked:

No. 2: V
No. 3: I
No. 5: III
No. 6: IV
No. 8: II

Another fascinating side point is to imagine your five choices as one symphony in five movements. Mine would be of enormous length!  >:D (35 + 35 + 20 + 30 + 55 = 175 minutes)

Quote from: Maestro267 on September 30, 2016, 11:44:04 AM
Yes, the other four movements of Mahler 10 should be included here, if the Adagio is going to be. The work is standard repertoire in its five-movement form now. It's all or nothing.

Well, for those who are or have been of the adagio only sort -- the second movement scherzo was completed and fully orchestrated by Mahler yet this is often conveniently ignored!  ???

Quote from: Reckoner on October 01, 2016, 01:24:33 AM
Well, for those who are or have been of the adagio only sort -- the second movement scherzo was completed and fully orchestrated by Mahler yet this is often conveniently ignored!  ???

It was? I thought he only orchestrated the first movement and most of the third.

Quote from: Crudblud on October 01, 2016, 01:47:39 AM
It was? I thought he only orchestrated the first movement and most of the third.

from imslp:

I. Adagio: 275 bars drafted in orchestral and short score
II. Scherzo – Finale: 521 bars drafted in orchestral and short score
III. Purgatorio. Allegro moderato: 144 bars drafted in short score, the first 30 bars also drafted in orchestral score
IV. Der Teufel tanzt es mit mir: 580 bars drafted in short score
V. Finale: 400 bars drafted in short score

http://imslp.org/wiki/Symphony_No.10_(Mahler,_Gustav)

http://conquest.imslp.info/files/imglnks/usimg/b/bb/IMSLP372921-PMLP495655-GMahler_Symphony_No.10_mvt2_fullscore_4325_ONB_Mus.Hs.41000-2.pdf

Of course not even Gus can beat your orchestration.  ;)

Quote from: Reckoner on October 01, 2016, 02:28:07 AM
from imslp:

I. Adagio: 275 bars drafted in orchestral and short score
II. Scherzo – Finale: 521 bars drafted in orchestral and short score
III. Purgatorio. Allegro moderato: 144 bars drafted in short score, the first 30 bars also drafted in orchestral score
IV. Der Teufel tanzt es mit mir: 580 bars drafted in short score
V. Finale: 400 bars drafted in short score

http://imslp.org/wiki/Symphony_No.10_(Mahler,_Gustav)

http://conquest.imslp.info/files/imglnks/usimg/b/bb/IMSLP372921-PMLP495655-GMahler_Symphony_No.10_mvt2_fullscore_4325_ONB_Mus.Hs.41000-2.pdf

Of course not even Gus can beat your orchestration.  ;)

If I'd known he'd finished his own I wouldn't have bothered!

So, are there any recordings of the original orchestration, or is it in fact verbatim in Cooke's version? I ask because I've got about five different completions (Cooke, Wheeler, Carpenter, Mazzetti, Samale-Mazzucca) in my collection, and none of them sound particularly "Mahler-y" to me.

Quote from: Crudblud on October 01, 2016, 02:40:14 AM
So, are there any recordings of the original orchestration, or is it in fact verbatim in Cooke's version? I ask because I've got about five different completions (Cooke, Wheeler, Carpenter, Mazzetti, Samale-Mazzucca) in my collection, and none of them sound particularly "Mahler-y" to me.

I'm not very familiar with the versions other than Cooke. Mahlerian is around so, it goes without saying, he's your man. :)

This might help re: any Cooke editions:

With regard to the notes: the Adagio and the Purgatorio are pure Mahler. In the other three movements listeners will hear 95 per cent. Mahler (that is, the music as it stands, with – most important – the spacing of the texture unchanged); the remaining five per cent consists merely of conjectural readings of illegible notes and conjectural fillings-in of missing notes and chords – nearly all obvious, and subsidiary. I have 'composed' nothing.

Secondly, the orchestration: the Adagio is practically pure Mahler (I have rejected the unstylistic additions of the published score); the Purgatorio is, I think, very near to Mahler. The four extracts from Scherzo I are about 80 per cent Mahler; I have merely added the necessary doublings to the 'essential' orchestration of the main scherzo material and closing pages; the two trios and the slow interlude will be played almost exactly as they stand.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/articles/5X0YN3BChZCMJBZgJ74z2qK/deryck-cooke-on-mahler-10

Quote from: Reckoner on October 01, 2016, 02:52:02 AM
I'm not very familiar with the versions other than Cooke. Mahlerian is around so, it goes without saying, he's your man. :)

This might help re: any Cooke editions:

With regard to the notes: the Adagio and the Purgatorio are pure Mahler. In the other three movements listeners will hear 95 per cent. Mahler (that is, the music as it stands, with – most important – the spacing of the texture unchanged); the remaining five per cent consists merely of conjectural readings of illegible notes and conjectural fillings-in of missing notes and chords – nearly all obvious, and subsidiary. I have 'composed' nothing.

Secondly, the orchestration: the Adagio is practically pure Mahler (I have rejected the unstylistic additions of the published score); the Purgatorio is, I think, very near to Mahler. The four extracts from Scherzo I are about 80 per cent Mahler; I have merely added the necessary doublings to the 'essential' orchestration of the main scherzo material and closing pages; the two trios and the slow interlude will be played almost exactly as they stand.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/articles/5X0YN3BChZCMJBZgJ74z2qK/deryck-cooke-on-mahler-10

That settles that then. I've also considered that the "completed by <insert person who is not Gustav Mahler here>" tag nags at me while I'm listening, and I'm obstructed from gaining a clear view of the music because of that. There's also the question of performance/recording quality, it seems like the big names steer clear of versions that aren't Cooke III, some performances of others sound particularly muddy.

Quote from: Crudblud on October 01, 2016, 03:04:47 AM
That settles that then. I've also considered that the "completed by <insert person who is not Gustav Mahler here>" tag nags at me while I'm listening, and I'm obstructed from gaining a clear view of the music because of that.

That's fair, for sure. Personally I find a great deal of the 'unfinished' material so impressive that I can look past any authenticity issues.

One of my favourite moments is the flute solo that emerges out the opening of the finale, once those shattering bass drum outbursts subside. As far as I'm aware, Mahler himself specified in the short score that it should be a flute there. It is one of the most glorious passages in his ouevre imo.

Quote from: Reckoner on October 01, 2016, 01:24:33 AM
Well, for those who are or have been of the adagio only sort -- the second movement scherzo was completed and fully orchestrated by Mahler yet this is often conveniently ignored!  ???

It is and it isn't.  There is a full score draft of the movement, but it's so bare that you need to go back to the short score in order to fill it in.  Its scoring is, as stands, also very monochromatic, something that Mahler never did in any other published work.  It's not really a finished draft the way the opening movement is, and it should be noted that the composer would have altered the scoring of that movement, too, had he lived long enough to finish the scoring and perform the work, because he always altered orchestration after hearing it played.

Quote from: Mahlerian on October 01, 2016, 08:31:05 AM
It is and it isn't.  There is a full score draft of the movement, but it's so bare that you need to go back to the short score in order to fill it in.  Its scoring is, as stands, also very monochromatic, something that Mahler never did in any other published work.  It's not really a finished draft the way the opening movement is, and it should be noted that the composer would have altered the scoring of that movement, too, had he lived long enough to finish the scoring and perform the work, because he always altered orchestration after hearing it played.

Thanks Mahlerian - I had feared that I'd jumped to conclusions.  :-\

From what I remember, Boulez and other notable conductors talked about the lack of counterpoint in the movements that follow the adagio, which is something I can appreciate but perhaps wouldn't understand very well!

Quote from: TheGSMoeller on October 10, 2011, 08:39:35 PM
Symphony No. 2 - movement VI, "Urlicht" - with or without the rest of symphony, "Urlicht" is one of the loveliest five minutes you could experience.

Symphony No. 3 - movement I - on its own is longer than Beethoven's 5th, and displays Mahler's ability to punch the listener in the face with a wall of sound. Might also contain classical music's best trombone solo, or at least the most "want to be played" solo, or so I've been told.

Symphony No. 4 - movement III - if you ever needed a soundtrack for "reflecting on life", this may be the piece. Sublime.

Symphony No. 7 - movement III, Scherzo - Fun, that just about sums it up, pure fun.

Symphony No. 9 - movement I - for all the love that the finale of No.9 gets, some of that love must be given to the road that brought our emotions to this point. It's sad, it's optimistic, it's ethereal, it's Mahler. Dare I say the best of the best?

5 years ago I posted this, still fairly accurate. Although I'll take away Urlicht and add Part II of the 8th Symphony. I've really been falling in love with that symphony, primarily Part II. And add the fourth movement of the 3rd Symphony, I love the mezzo-soprano part of that movement.

1:III
3:III
3:VI
8:II
DLvdE:VI

Though if I'd been allowed one more vote I might have just selected the whole of symphony 3. :)

Yes, although I probably wouldn't have voted for it, I think the rest of 10 should have been included. AFAIC Rattle/Berlin is still the most convincing case for this work.

Surely at least the Purgatorio movement of 10 should have been included? Didn't Mahler pretty much finish that one?

No. 9 - 1st and 4th
Das Lied - 6th
No. 3 - 6th
No. 7 - 2nd

Quote from: Androcles on October 20, 2016, 11:31:29 AM
Surely at least the Purgatorio movement of 10 should have been included? Didn't Mahler pretty much finish that one?

Both the Adante/Adagio first movement and the Purgatorio third were essentially finished by Mahler before his death. Szell recorded both in 1958, before Cooke released his performing version of the whole.

Sarge

Quote from: mszczuj on October 20, 2016, 11:35:10 AM
No. 7 - 2nd

That's one I regret not having room for. Mahler stepping into the future.

Sarge

Quote from: Sergeant Rock on October 20, 2016, 11:40:47 AM
(About No. 7 - 2nd)

That's one I regret not having room for. Mahler stepping into the future.

It was real suprise for me when I discovered who gave the second vote for it.

Quote from: mszczuj on October 20, 2016, 12:04:51 PM
It was real suprise for me when I discovered who gave the second vote for it.

Electoral fraud is real!

My favourite Movements is by Stravinsky :P

Quote from: North Star on October 20, 2016, 12:13:28 PM
Electoral fraud is real!

My favourite Movements is by Stravinsky :P

You're young. Still plenty of time to get into Mahler too  8)

Sarge

Quote from: Sergeant Rock on October 20, 2016, 12:34:01 PM
You're young. Still plenty of time to get into Mahler too  8)

Sarge

Oh, I do like Mahler, too.  0:)
I need a better recording of the 3rd, I think (I only have the Rattle), and I don't recall what I think of the 8th. Other than that, we're on good terms even if I don't visit Gustav too often.

Quote from: North Star on October 20, 2016, 12:39:01 PM
Oh, I do like Mahler, too.  0:)

Glad to hear it  8)

Quote from: North Star on October 20, 2016, 12:39:01 PM
I need a better recording of the 3rd, I think (I only have the Rattle)

Horenstein is my first love (but it's controversial). I'd probably take Levine/Chicago to the desert island. He makes the Bim Bam movement rather dark...I like.

Sarge

Quote from: Sergeant Rock on October 20, 2016, 12:47:54 PM
Glad to hear it  8)

Horenstein is my first love (but it's controversial). I'd probably take Levine/Chicago to the desert island. He makes the Bim Bam movement rather dark...I like.

Sarge

Thanks. Hm, the one in this box is with Philly.
[asin]B0041LXX2G[/asin]

Quote from: North Star on October 20, 2016, 12:39:01 PM
I need a better recording of the 3rd, I think (I only have the Rattle)

The name is Abbado, Claudio Abbado:

[asin]B000001G4T[/asin]
An all-round success, and Jessye Norman in O mensch is something you really must hear at least once in your life  :)

Quote from: North Star on October 20, 2016, 12:54:52 PM
Thanks. Hm, the one in this box is with Philly.
[asin]B0041LXX2G[/asin]

Of course, Philadelphia. Things get confused at my age, and in my late night drunken stupor  ;D

Sarge

Quote from: ritter on October 20, 2016, 12:55:33 PM
The name is Abbado, Claudio Abbado:

[asin]B00LWIKB3K[/asin]
An all-round success, and Jessye Norman in O mensch is something you really must hear at least once in your life  :)

Cheers, Rafael. That does look quite good. *adds to the ever so long list*

Quote from: Sergeant Rock on October 20, 2016, 12:58:41 PM
Of course, Philadelphia. Things get confused at my age, and in my late night drunken stupor  ;D

Sarge

I was wondering about that. Some conductors have been known to record some of these works with several orchestras :D

Quote from: Androcles on October 20, 2016, 11:31:29 AM
Surely at least the Purgatorio movement of 10 should have been included? Didn't Mahler pretty much finish that one?

Mahler finished the whole work in short score draft.  It's only the orchestration that remains for the most part.  There is a partial full score draft of the second movement (but missing a lot of musical details, so one needs to look to the short score) and of the third movement Purgatorio, but neither is as complete as the opening adagio.

Still, the Purgatorio movement doesn't make much sense outside of the context of the whole, as its function is to set up the changes in mood and material from the first part of the work to the second.

Quote from: North Star on October 20, 2016, 01:00:12 PM
Cheers, Rafael. That does look quite good. *adds to the ever so long list*
I was wondering about that. Some conductors have been known to record some of these works with several orchestras :D

I think the box set may be wrong. I have the original Levine Third and it is most definitely the Chicago Symphony and Chorus. The box lists the Chicago choir.

Sarge

Quote from: Sergeant Rock on October 20, 2016, 01:07:57 PM
I think the box set may be wrong. I have the original Levine Third and it is most definitely the Chicago Symphony and Chorus. The box lists the Chicago choir. I think they got the orchestra wrong.

Sarge

It does appear so; reviewers list CSO, as does Arkiv.

Quote from: Sergeant Rock on October 20, 2016, 01:07:57 PM
I think the box set may be wrong. I have the original Levine Third and it is most definitely the Chicago Symphony and Chorus. The box lists the Chicago choir.

Sarge

It could be like the Bernstein CBS set where all but one symphony was with NYPO, the other ... was it Vienna?

Quote from: sanantonio on October 20, 2016, 01:21:47 PM
It could be like the Bernstein CBS set where all but one symphony was with NYPO, the other ... was it Vienna?

Isn't it the Eighth with London?

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/411HY7RPWPL.jpg)

Quote from: sanantonio on October 20, 2016, 01:21:47 PM
It could be like the Bernstein CBS set where all but one symphony was with NYPO, the other ... was it Vienna?

Levine's box includes performances from three orchestras (Chicago, LSO, Philly). They screwed up labeling the Chicago Third.

Sarge

Quote from: ritter on October 20, 2016, 01:44:39 PM
Isn't it the Eighth with London?

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/411HY7RPWPL.jpg)

Yep - I wasn't sure.

Quote from: Sergeant Rock on October 20, 2016, 01:59:08 PM
Levine's box includes performances from three orchestras (Chicago, LSO, Philly). They screwed up labeling the Chicago Third.

Sarge

Thanks to our resident Mahlerian for straightening me out.

;)

Quote from: North Star on October 20, 2016, 12:39:01 PM
Oh, I do like Mahler, too.  0:)
I need a better recording of the 3rd, I think (I only have the Rattle), and I don't recall what I think of the 8th. Other than that, we're on good terms even if I don't visit Gustav too often.

Tennstedt (studio) was the convincer for me in the 3rd, really rhapsodic.
I only really rate Rattle in 10 and the Klangende Lied.

My list may seem rather conventional to some other people's lists, but here goes nothing:

Symphony No. 5 in C-sharp minor - IV. Adagietto
Symphony No. 4 in G major - III. Ruhevoll, poco adagio
Symphony No. 6 in A minor - I. Allegro energico, ma non troppo. Heftig, aber markig
Symphony No. 7 in E minor - III. Scherzo
Symphony No. 9 - I. Andante comodo

I'm sure as time goes on and I become much more familiar with Mahler's symphonies, these will change, but this is just my current list.

Quote from: mszczuj on October 20, 2016, 11:35:10 AM
No. 7 - 2nd

Quote from: Sergeant Rock on October 20, 2016, 11:40:47 AM
That's one I regret not having room for. Mahler stepping into the future.

Quote from: mszczuj on October 20, 2016, 12:04:51 PM
It was real surprise for me when I discovered who gave the second vote for it.

Why is that? Mine is the second vote. The 7th has always been one of my favorite Mahler symphonies, and the 2nd is my favorite movement. I also voted for No. 6 andante and m4; No. 2, m5; and No. 9, m1.

My votes in order, with favorite versions:
No. 6: andante. Bernstein CBS (The only version I ever want to hear. Especially in the first movement.)
No. 2: m5. I like every version I've ever heard. Both Bernstein NYPO recordings. Every Abbado version. Klemperer. Early Solti. I've never heard a version I dislike.
No. 7: m2. Bernstein CBS, DG. Tilson-Thomas. Abbado Chicago (this is the one that caught my attention early on).
No. 6: m4. Bernstein CBS (Super imprint: I never want to listen to any other version. I loved the way the original CD led into No. 8, even though the SQ was very rough.)
No. 9: m1. Bernstein CBS. (Another imprint version. No one else gets the first movement as right as Bernstein in his first recording.)

The one that just missed the top 5: No. 3: m1. Bernstein CBS. Abbado. Levine. Some days it does make my top 5, especially when I'm listening to it.

You can make that 3 votes for 7-2 now.

No surprise to see 9-1 romping away, and that goes first on my list too - although generally I prefer Mahler's lighter side (so far as he had one):
Symphony 9 - 1st movement  well, duh  ::)
Symphony 7 - 2nd movement - trademark nature-boy Mahler, but deconstructed for us by the mature composer.  Special thanks to the shade of Klemperer for finishing the job!  ;)  (Other interpretations are available.)
Symphony 2 - 1st movement - I usually listen to this as a standalone piece with the wick turned up high - not really fond of the rest of this symphony.  :-X
Symphony 7 - 3rd movement - right up there in the popular macabre tradition  >:D
Symphony 3 - 3rd movement - the 3rd was my 'in' to Mahler, and this movement under Bernstein was just sweet  :P

I'm astonished to see 2 votes for 7-5  ??? and equally surprised and saddened to see 0 for 3-6.  :(

Hmm this was actually pretty easy. First movements of 6th and 10th are my favorites and roughly equal, after that comes andante and finale from the 6th, roughly equal again. Then the first movement of the 9th.

I used to pretend to be quite a Mahler fan, but honestly other Mahler movements are rather meh to me and I probably could do without them.

I can't vote.  Mahler didn't write in individual movements, and I don't think of them as separable from his symphonies as a whole.  Imagine trying to consider the scherzo of Beethoven's Fifth apart from the finale.  It doesn't make any sense.  They're too closely connected to remove from each other, and they depend too much on each other for their significance.

4 out of 5 are still the same favourites as 5 years ago...

Quote from: Papy Oli on October 10, 2011, 12:25:24 PM
Mahler 1 - 4th mvt - my original gateway into Mahler
Mahler 2 - 1st mvt - my absolute addiction...the benchmark movement by which all cycles and versions are judged.
Mahler 3 - 4th mvt - O Meeeeensch...
Mahler 5 - 1st mvt - The trumpet...
mahler 6 - 1st mvt - backup addiction, just in case.

5th choice now would probably be the the M4's 4th mvt or the 7th's 3rd mvt or the 10th's Adagio in that order.

Quote from: Mahlerian on October 21, 2016, 09:57:31 AM
I can't vote.  Mahler didn't write in individual movements, and I don't think of them as separable from his symphonies as a whole.  Imagine trying to consider the scherzo of Beethoven's Fifth apart from the finale.  It doesn't make any sense.  They're too closely connected to remove from each other, and they depend too much on each other for their significance.

You're such a party pooper! :P

Quote from: Mahlerian on October 21, 2016, 09:57:31 AM
I can't vote.  Mahler didn't write in individual movements, and I don't think of them as separable from his symphonies as a whole.  Imagine trying to consider the scherzo of Beethoven's Fifth apart from the finale.  It doesn't make any sense.  They're too closely connected to remove from each other, and they depend too much on each other for their significance.

I like your thinking. Without breaking the symphonies up into movements, my five favorites are Nos. 6, 2, 7, 3, 8. This lets in Nos. 3 and 8, and excludes No. 9, as I really only like the first movement. I'd much rather listen to each of these in its entirety than consider individual movements.

I don't really get it.  IMHO, Mahler gives us several excellent examples of 'Symphony as collection of fairly unrelated pieces of music'.

Symphonies 2 & 4 both contain movements that Mahler originally wrote as part of some other project.  Symphonies 1 & 3 had movements removed altogether when Mahler had second thoughts.  In Symphony 6 the order of the middle movements is to this day 'conductors choice'.  The first movement of Symphony 2 was published and performed in public more than once, before Mahler even knew what he was going to write for the last movement.   Similarly the 2nd and 4th movements of Symphony 7 were written as part of the creative burst that became Symphony 6 (actually as a way of clearing writers block before penning the last movement of Symphony 6).  All this suggests to me that the structural imperative in these symphonies is not very great.

Clearly from a listener's point of view, any movement in a composite work - Symphony, Suite, whatever - has to work on its own terms without any reference to what comes later.  (A later movement may refer back to an earlier one in a satisfying way, but it doesn't really work the other way around.)  Because of this, most first movements (by any post-classical composer) can work as standalone pieces of music.  The first movement of Mahler 2 is the most obvious example, because the composer himself required a 5-minute pause to be inserted, at the end of that movement and before going on to the Andante.  Traditionally in the concert hall, the listener is a captive and must listen to the whole symphony, but when listening to recordings we don't have that limitation.

I think aukhawk has a point. There are hardly any Mahler movements as tightly connected as the last two in Beethoven's 5th and several were composed as separate works so this is a disingenious comparison.

Quote from: aukhawk on October 24, 2016, 04:17:02 AM
I don't really get it.  IMHO, Mahler gives us several excellent examples of 'Symphony as collection of fairly unrelated pieces of music'.

Symphonies 2 & 4 both contain movements that Mahler originally wrote as part of some other project.  Symphonies 1 & 3 had movements removed altogether when Mahler had second thoughts.  In Symphony 6 the order of the middle movements is to this day 'conductors choice'.  The first movement of Symphony 2 was published and performed in public more than once, before Mahler even knew what he was going to write for the last movement.   Similarly the 2nd and 4th movements of Symphony 7 were written as part of the creative burst that became Symphony 6 (actually as a way of clearing writers block before penning the last movement of Symphony 6).  All this suggests to me that the structural imperative in these symphonies is not very great.

Clearly from a listener's point of view, any movement in a composite work - Symphony, Suite, whatever - has to work on its own terms without any reference to what comes later.  (A later movement may refer back to an earlier one in a satisfying way, but it doesn't really work the other way around.)  Because of this, most first movements (by any post-classical composer) can work as standalone pieces of music.  The first movement of Mahler 2 is the most obvious example, because the composer himself required a 5-minute pause to be inserted, at the end of that movement and before going on to the Andante.  Traditionally in the concert hall, the listener is a captive and must listen to the whole symphony, but when listening to recordings we don't have that limitation.

None of these examples show that Mahler's music is structurally disconnected.  I'll grant you the example of the First, but Mahler definitely improved the structure of the work by excising the original second movement, in my opinion.

Certainly, it is true that the first movement of the Second was initially played separately from the rest, but it was with the intention of being the first movement of a symphony, and after the symphony was written he never played any portion of the work by itself.

With the Third, the movement was not removed after the symphony was written, but in the course of the process of writing it.  To say that this indicates that the movements are unconnected would be to say that any book that has undergone editing before being sent to the publisher's lacks a plot.  Like with the Second, some of the middle movements of the Third were played alone before the work was finished, but this does not at all undermine the very close connections between the movements in this work.

As for writing two movements of the Seventh before finishing the Sixth, this is part of the normal working process of many (perhaps the vast majority of) composers, and implies nothing about a lack of structural integrity.  In fact, the Sixth, along with the Fifth and Eighth, is one of the most highly integrated symphonic structures by Mahler, and far more highly integrated than the majority of symphonies of his or any other time.

At any rate, it is not true that an individual movement must be able to stand on its own terms, nor are Mahler's first movements usually intended to.  They routinely set up musical problems that are not solved until the finales.

Quote from: North Star on October 20, 2016, 01:00:12 PM
I was wondering about that. Some conductors have been known to record some of these works with several orchestras :D

There is a really nice Mahler discography: http://gustavmahler.net.free.fr/index.html (http://gustavmahler.net.free.fr/index.html).

Quote from: aukhawk on October 24, 2016, 04:17:02 AMI don't really get it.  IMHO, Mahler gives us several excellent examples of 'Symphony as collection of fairly unrelated pieces of music'.

Yes, whatever the virtues of the works taken as a whole, the movements are also strong enough to stand alone - which is handy for converting Mahler-phobes. For instance, I played the middle mvts of the 1st (cond. Otterloo) while my mother happened to be present, and she was surprised to find out she liked them. I imagine her reaction to the outer mvts would have been more equivocal.
There are many other mvts which are strong enough to stand as symphonic poems without frightening the horses, though of course the time is long past when a conductor could do this in concert without becoming anathema.