GMG Classical Music Forum

The Music Room => Opera and Vocal => Topic started by: Geo Dude on November 01, 2011, 04:12:45 PM

Title: Choral Canon
Post by: Geo Dude on November 01, 2011, 04:12:45 PM
I've been listening to Brahms's Requiem lately, along with some of his other choral works, and realized that my choral collection is woefully undersized.  To remedy that, I'd like to get some suggestions for a canon of choral works that every classical lover should have a recording of in their collection.  Brahms, Mozart, Schubert, etc.

I'll likely attempt to formulate a list to assist other choral newbies once some responses come in.
Title: Re: Choral Canon
Post by: JerryS on November 01, 2011, 07:31:59 PM
Just a few that I particularly love:

Verdi: Requiem
Mozart: Great Mass in C minor
Haydn: The Creation, Mass in Time of War
Beethoven: Missa Solemnis
Rossini: Stabat Mater, Petite Messe Solennelle
Puccini: Messa di Gloria
Elgar: The Apostles, The Kingdom
Bach: Mass in B Minor
Bernstein: Chichester Psalms
Title: Re: Choral Canon
Post by: kishnevi on November 01, 2011, 08:42:34 PM
Other possibilities:
Bach: Magnificat
Handel: Messiah, Israel in Egypt
Beethoven: Choral Fantasy
Walton: Belshazzar's Feast
Elgar: Dream of Gerontius
Mozart: Requiem
Mussourgsky: Boris Godunov--the chorus is one of the core facets of this opera.
Title: Re: Choral Canon
Post by: mc ukrneal on November 01, 2011, 11:24:12 PM
If we are taking some of the most famous works, here are a few that come to mind:

4 'Great' Requiems
Faure
Brahms
Mozart
Verdi (sometimes coupled with Cherubini)

Bach:
Mass in B minor
St. Matthew's Passion

Beethoven: Missa Solemnis
Berlioz: Damnation of Faust (perhaps the Requiem instead)
Britten: War Requiem (not my favorite, but some love it)
Elgar: Dream of Gerontius
Handel: Messiah

Haydn:
The Seasons
The Creation

Janacek: Glagolitic Mass (a favorite of Luke and some others here)
Monteverdi: Vespers
Mozart: Mass in C minor (a favorite of mine)
Orff: Carmina Burana
Prokofiev: Alexander Nevsky
Victoria: Requiem
Vivaldi: Gloria
Walton: Belshazzar's Feast

There is certainly plenty more: Symphonies (Mahler 8, Mendelssohn 2, etc) as well as a number of other composers who wrote some great choral music, including Mendelssohn, Schubert, Rossini, Dvorak, etc. And of course the above composers wrote more as well. I don't personally think that the above are necessarily the best pieces from those composers either - and some wrote many, many more pieces (like Haydn and Elgar). But I think they give you the more well known pieces for the most part (and they are certainly all very good).

One could add dozens more, but I think this is where I would start if someone wanted to start a collection.
Title: Re: Choral Canon
Post by: Karl Henning on November 02, 2011, 04:36:59 AM
All of this is great music, but cor, what a huge blindspot! You're all talking exclusively about chorus-plus-orchestra lit, from only a fraction of music history. Cultural illiterates! ; )

As yet only a short corrective list:

Machaut, Messe de Nostre Dame
Byrd, Mass for five voices
Tallis, Spem in alium
Palestrina, Missa Papae Marcelli
de Victoria, Misa O magnum misterium
Rakhmaninov, All-Night Vigil, Op.37
Vaughan Williams, Mass in g minor
Title: Re: Choral Canon
Post by: mc ukrneal on November 02, 2011, 04:48:54 AM
Quote from: karlhenning on November 02, 2011, 04:36:59 AM
All of this is great music, but cor, what a huge blindspot! You're all talking exclusively about chorus-plus-orchestra lit, from only a fraction of music history. Cultural illiterates! ; )
Granted, not many (and a good point), but none? Sure you don't want to revise that...   :o
Title: Re: Choral Canon
Post by: Karl Henning on November 02, 2011, 04:50:18 AM
Call it a rhetorical exaggeration, mon vieux : )
Title: Re: Choral Canon
Post by: Geo Dude on November 02, 2011, 05:18:40 AM
Thanks for the tips thus far.  Any suggestions for Schubert's choral works?
Title: Re: Choral Canon
Post by: mc ukrneal on November 02, 2011, 06:55:33 AM
Quote from: Geo Dude on November 02, 2011, 05:18:40 AM
Thanks for the tips thus far.  Any suggestions for Schubert's choral works?
The best bet is probably his masses (no 5 is a decent place to start). There are all sorts of discs in various combinations (as well as complete collections). He also did Rosamunde, a new version of which was recently released that I have been eyeing. He also did a number of secular choral pieces (7 disc set on Warner for example). EMI recently released a new set of complete (?) choral works. It is something like 10-12 cds, but I have not looked at it to know if it is worthwhile.
Title: Re: Choral Canon
Post by: JerryS on November 02, 2011, 08:36:51 AM
Quote from: Geo Dude on November 02, 2011, 05:18:40 AM
Thanks for the tips thus far.  Any suggestions for Schubert's choral works?
The Schubert Masses are well worth exploring. For a more intimate side of Schubert I find this recording very appealing:

[asin] B000003CZF[/asin]

Title: Re: Choral Canon
Post by: Mandryka on November 03, 2011, 12:57:42 PM
Quote from: Geo Dude on November 02, 2011, 05:18:40 AM
Thanks for the tips thus far.  Any suggestions for Schubert's choral works?

Yes. The major secular  choral masterpiece is Nachthelle. The one with Schreier is the best I've heard

http://www.youtube.com/v/_vGXHtilblw

and Nachtgesang im Walde

http://www.youtube.com/v/IDkc1HYmhNo

There's also an very excellent late mass.
Title: Re: Choral Canon
Post by: Mandryka on November 03, 2011, 01:23:17 PM
If you like the abouve Schubert for choir and horns then be sure to catch the excellent Brahms Schicksalslied  and Vier Gesange op.17, for two horns, harp, and female chorus,  :

http://www.youtube.com/v/E0AhEAWmoZ0 http://www.youtube.com/v/EbedkSBhkec

And if you like that then you really need an Alto Rhapsody. If you can find Ferrier/Tuxen  then grab it.

Title: Re: Choral Canon
Post by: Mandryka on November 03, 2011, 01:23:55 PM
Some favourite 20th century  choral works of mine. I suspect that the last century as a golden age for choral music:

The Requiem of Reconciliation (a joint composed by Luciano Berio,  Friedrich Cerha,  Paul-Heinz Dittrich,  Marek Kopelent,  John Harbison, Arne Nordheim,  Bernard Rands,  Marc André Dalbavie,  Judith Weir,  Krzysztof Penderecki,  Wolfgang Rihm,  Alfred Schnittke,  Joji Yuasa,  György Kurtág); Bartok Cantata Profana; Ligeti Lux Aterna; Britten's War requiem; Rachmaninov's Vespers

From earlier do try Liszt's Requiem and Via Crucis.
Title: Re: Choral Canon
Post by: Cato on November 03, 2011, 04:13:18 PM
My first thought:

Schoenberg: Friede auf Erden.
Title: Re: Choral Canon
Post by: Cato on November 03, 2011, 06:19:40 PM
My second thought:

Barber's Agnus Dei (a reworking of his Adagio for Strings )
Title: Re: Choral Canon
Post by: Karl Henning on November 04, 2011, 03:43:40 AM
Quote from: Cato on November 03, 2011, 06:19:40 PM
My second thought:

Barber's Agnus Dei (a reworking of his Adagio for Strings )

My opinion is mixed on that. It's a beautiful piece, and hearing it in choral timbre is unquestionably lovely. But the composition has a dramatic arc which I feel is at odds with the litany repetition of the text.
Title: Re: Choral Canon
Post by: Geo Dude on November 04, 2011, 06:04:14 AM
Thanks for all the suggestions.  In particular, Karl, thanks for the Rachmaninoff recommendation; I had always meant to pick up a recording of that piece but had completely forgotten about it!

In reply to the suggestion on Brahms' choral material I'll note that I currently own this set (http://www.amazon.com/Brahms-Choral-Works-Box-Set/dp/B0006B982O/ref=sr_1_12?ie=UTF8&qid=1320414866&sr=8-12), and the disc of Sinopoli conducting Alto Rhapsody, Shicksalslied, etc. is coming in the mail.  I'm set in terms of volume, though I will of course be hunting down second and third recordings of some works.
Title: Re: Choral Canon
Post by: Karl Henning on November 04, 2011, 06:07:09 AM
The Gesualdo Tenebrae Responsories are luscious, as well. Somewhat less outré than some of his madrigals, but rich nonetheless.
Title: Re: Choral Canon
Post by: pjme on November 04, 2011, 06:16:00 AM
Brahms -  a very old Wunderhorn lied... Mesmerisingly beautiful, I think...as is Nänie.

http://youtu.be/sO6ih9ees2Q

P.
Title: Re: Choral Canon
Post by: pjme on November 04, 2011, 06:18:19 AM
And do not forget Frank Martin's 1922 Mass.

http://youtu.be/hQTMrs0DMsI


P.
Title: Re: Choral Canon
Post by: Cato on November 04, 2011, 02:45:41 PM
Quote from: karlhenning on November 04, 2011, 03:43:40 AM
My opinion is mixed on that. It's a beautiful piece, and hearing it in choral timbre is unquestionably lovely. But the composition has a dramatic arc which I feel is at odds with the litany repetition of the text.[/b]

That is true: now that you mention it, I realize I have simply listened to it as music, and ignored any textual aspects.   :o

Perhaps simply a vocalise version would make a better choral piece.

Title: Re: Choral Canon
Post by: Ataraxia on March 21, 2012, 08:23:31 AM
Quote from: karlhenning on November 02, 2011, 04:36:59 AM
All of this is great music, but cor, what a huge blindspot! You're all talking exclusively about chorus-plus-orchestra lit, from only a fraction of music history. Cultural illiterates! ; )

As yet only a short corrective list:

Machaut, Messe de Nostre Dame
Byrd, Mass for five voices
Tallis, Spem in alium
Palestrina, Missa Papae Marcelli
de Victoria, Misa O magnum misterium
Rakhmaninov, All-Night Vigil, Op.37
Vaughan Williams, Mass in g minor


At the moment I'm interested in choral music with voice only. Thanks for this list. I'll have to check at home to see how much of it I already possess.
Title: Re: Choral Canon
Post by: TheGSMoeller on March 21, 2012, 08:43:36 AM
Quote from: MN Dave on March 21, 2012, 08:23:31 AM
At the moment I'm interested in choral music with voice only. Thanks for this list. I'll have to check at home to see how much of it I already possess.

Karl created a great list there.

If you find yourself interested in more 20th Century choral music, then give Poulenc a try, I have four discs devoted to his choral music and they are wonderful. Both sacred and secular.
Title: Re: Choral Canon
Post by: Ataraxia on March 21, 2012, 08:45:23 AM
Quote from: TheGSMoeller on March 21, 2012, 08:43:36 AM
Karl created a great list there.

If you find yourself interested in more 20th Century choral music, then give Poulenc a try, I have four discs devoted to his choral music and they are wonderful. Both sacred and secular.

Thanks much!
Title: Re: Choral Canon
Post by: Tsaraslondon on March 21, 2012, 10:01:52 AM
a few not mentioned yet (unless I missed them)

Messiaen: Trois Petites Liturgies de la Presence Divine
MacMillan: Seven Last Words of the Cross
Durufle: Requiem
Part: Passio
Rossini: Stabat Mater



Title: Re: Choral Canon
Post by: Papy Oli on March 21, 2012, 02:36:18 PM
A couple more :

Arvo Part - Kanon Pokajanen
Arvo Part - Summa
Arvo Part - Berliner Messe
Bruckner - Motets
Tallis - Salve Intemarata
Allegri - Miserere
Hildegard Von Bingen - Heavenly revelations
Josquin Desprez - Motets
Dunstable - Motets
Leonin et Perotin - Sacred Music de Notre-Dame
Obrecht - Missa Caput, Salve Regina
Pergolesi - Stabat Mater
Schutz - Psalmen Davids
Title: Re: Choral Canon
Post by: Ataraxia on March 21, 2012, 03:41:46 PM
 :o Thanks.
Title: Re: Choral Canon
Post by: zamyrabyrd on March 21, 2012, 11:54:22 PM
I thought this was about vocal "canon"...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xl-fXIgiITQ
☆ Stella Voci ☆ sings Canon in D

ZB
Title: Re: Choral Canon
Post by: Karl Henning on February 06, 2013, 03:56:21 AM
Thought I should find a more suitable thread for this discussion:

Quote from: mc ukrneal on February 06, 2013, 03:29:56 AM
I picked up a disc of his [Jn Rutter's] work on Naxos last year at one of the various label sales, and I have to say that I quite enjoy it. I don't think it is boilerplate, though it has clear references (in my mind anyway) to other composers (Walton immediately comes to mind in some of it, for example). But it is fashionable to dislike him, Jenkins, and a few others. I guess this is not the right place for this discussion exactly, but I feel there are a number of people (not referencing anyone here) who simply jump on the bandwagon of vitriol without really trying to understand the music. I'll also be the first to admit, that there can be a certain 'sameness' to the sound that I find wearying sometimes (particularly in the choral sound). As a result, I tend to listen to pieces at a time (rather than the whole disc).

EDIT: HEre, for example, is a piece I quite like and can listen to repeatedly: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RlKNQBOeQqQ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RlKNQBOeQqQ)

I don't mind that his style draws from tradition (I had better not mind, as practically any of my own choral work refer to one tradition or another). I should also say (and I shall soon mash that link you've kindly offered, in hopes) that I've not actually heard a piece of his which I would call, simply, excellent; but that a couple of friends who compose very well for choir have given me the opinion that they know of a few works which stand well above the mass of, so to speak, competent samey-ness.
Title: Re: Choral Canon
Post by: mc ukrneal on February 06, 2013, 04:05:54 AM
Quote from: karlhenning on February 06, 2013, 03:56:21 AM
Thought I should find a more suitable thread for this discussion:

I don't mind that his style draws from tradition (I had better not mind, as practically any of my own choral work refer to one tradition or another). I should also say (and I shall soon mash that link you've kindly offered, in hopes) that I've not actually heard a piece of his which I would call, simply, excellent; but that a couple of friends who compose very well for choir have given me the opinion that they know of a few works which stand well above the mass of, so to speak, competent samey-ness.
It's from his Magnificat: Esurientes (if I spelled that right). I think I remember hearing a piece of his at the recent Royal wedding (well, relatively recent!) that he composed. I remember thinking it quite nice for the occassion, but not sure all this time later if it is something that will live on or not. I'll have to take a looksie when I get the chance.
Title: Re: Choral Canon
Post by: Karl Henning on April 13, 2013, 07:33:32 AM
At rehearsal with Paul's choir, just sang through Stravinsky's Bogoroditse Devo. Great little piece.