GMG Classical Music Forum

The generation of Czech composers born between 1900 and 1914 included a number of interesting figures whose music was recorded on LP by labels like Supraphon and Panton during the 1960s to 1980s but have, sadly, seldom made it to cd.

One of the apparently most interesting is Miloslav Kabelac. Kabelac was a pupil of Alois Haba, the pioneer of the use and integration of microtones into modern music and later of 12-tone techniques. Kabelac combined elements of 12-tone composition with the influence of Gregorian chant and of folk music. He was an active and influential figure both at Prague Radio and as a teacher at Prague Conservatory(where he introduced many young Czech composers to the latest developments in Western avant-garde musical techniques) but was sidelined after the Prague Spring of 1968 and the Soviet Invasion of Czechoslovakia.

Kabelac wrote a huge amount of work, orchestral, chamber, organ and choral. His eight symphonies were written for different combinations of instruments:as examples,  the Third is for organ, brass and timpani- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o00Rq2VvOUI; the Eighth for soprano, choir, percussion and organ.

I have the Symphony No.5 "Dramatic" for soprano and orchestra(1960) on cd but the only other piece I can claim to know well of this intriguing composer who, in my estimation deserves much more exposure and investigation, is his quite marvellous Passacaglia for large symphony orchestra "The Mystery of Time"(1953-57). This latter work is fortunate to be included on a Supraphon cd but can be heard here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5kxcD0mU9jo&feature=related

"The Mystery of Time" is one of my favourite 20th century compositions, never failing to thrill me as it grows from a sepulchral opening in gradually mounting intensity to a magnificent climax with Janacek-like fanfares underpinned by thunderous brass. I first heard the work on LP almost half a century ago and I still find it the epitome of the phrase 'awe-inspiring' ;D ;D

Many thanks, Colin! I'll have a listen.

There´s also a "Hamlet Improvisation" for orchestra recorded by Ancerl (supraphon) and a "Cello Sonata" on Panton. Haven´t really digged into his works yet, but will probably be giving them a listen, inspired by your thread ... :-). I don´t have the 5th symphony; do you like it ?

It´s a bit peculiar how little biographical material there´s available on Czechoslovak composers in English/German/French on the web, except from the quartet of Smetana, Dvorak, Janacek and Martinu. Hopefully things will gradually change ...

Yes, I do have the Hamlet Improvisation which is on the same disc as "Mystery of Time" and is coupled with Jan Hanus's Symphony Concertante for Organ, Harp, Timpani and Strings.

The Hamet piece a relatively short, brooding piece in a slightly more advanced idiom, certainly impressive and worth hearing. The 5th Symphony I shall need to play again to remind myself what it actually sounds like :)

The problem for these pieces is that the recordings are pretty ancient now; they desperately need to be heard in modern sound. The other tragedy is that composers like Kabelac and composers of Czech symphonies like Feld, Hanus, Kapr, Krejci, Jirasek, Podesva and Valek had to work within a repressive political system. Their more progressive compositions met with official disapproval and many felt themselves forced into artistic compromise.

If only Supraphon would, at least, reissue the original LPs we could actually hear these works-between them the composers I mentioned wrote 59 symphonies :o
Dux in Poland is beginning to explore the Polish repertoire but Supraphon seems to have given up on that whole generation of composers :( :(

I just listened to the Passacaglia. Well, it's grim and inexorable all right. I do find it a bit grey and samey, though. The 'sepulchral' atmosphere of the opening never disappears. I'd liked to have seen more variation. Vermeulen's Passacaille and Cortège and Busoni's Sarabande and Cortège aren't superseded. Nor is the chaconne fourth movement of Brahms' Fourth, or Dopper's Ciaconna gotica (passacaglia and chaconne are closely related). But I am glad to have heard it!

"Grim and Inexorable" :)

You will understand why I like it so much then ;D ;D

I shall need to listen to the Vermeulen(a composer I don't usually much care for ;D) again. The Busoni I know-yes, great piece. Brahms 4th-of course :) :) The Dopper I don't know. Has it been recorded??

Just listened again to the Symphony No.5 "Dramatic" :) Of course, I had forgotten it was for coloratura soprano and orchestra and that the soloist "sings" wordlessly throughout....extraordinary piece, sad, brooding, intense, searing ;D

Quote from: Dundonnell on February 11, 2012, 11:43:03 AM
"Grim and Inexorable" :)

You will understand why I like it so much then ;D

Oh yes!


Vermeulen (Van Beinum, Concertgebouw, 1958): http://www.mediafire.com/?7njjrc11iq8 (http://www.mediafire.com/?7njjrc11iq8)


Dopper (Mengelberg, 1940): http://www.mediafire.com/?mmgenqyzndy (http://www.mediafire.com/?mmgenqyzndy)

While I might not be that impressed by both videos (from what I heard anyway) I think it would be hard for anyone to live up to the last movement of Brahms 4th symphony, so I think that's a harsh comparison.

Quote from: starrynight on Today at 22:31:01 (http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php?topic=19903.msg600678#msg600678)

While I might not be that impressed by both videos (from what I heard anyway) I think it would be hard for anyone to live up to the last movement of Brahms 4th symphony, so I think that's a harsh comparison.



I think I softened it by mentioning a few other pieces - none of which equal that amazing movement - which use the form in ways that please me more.

Fair enough, I wouldn't have mentioned it though. :D  Anyway I wasn't that impressed either with what I did hear from that piece.

Quote from: J. Z. Herrenberg on February 11, 2012, 12:10:41 PM

Oh yes!


Vermeulen (Van Beinum, Concertgebouw, 1958): http://www.mediafire.com/?7njjrc11iq8 (http://www.mediafire.com/?7njjrc11iq8)


Dopper (Mengelberg, 1940): http://www.mediafire.com/?mmgenqyzndy (http://www.mediafire.com/?mmgenqyzndy)

Thanks for these, Johan :)

I had listened to the first half of the Dopper in the Baekels performance on You Tube but this I can keep :D

Oh well.....at least I tried :(

I do have to say though that I have always found comparisons between composers or between particular compositions, especially those from different eras, invidious and, usually, unhelpful. In this case the comparisons seem particularly inappropriate ::)

I am an admirer of the grimly compelling Symphony No 5 ('Dramatic') for Soprano and Orchestra.

I rather like this extract from the notes:

'...Kabelac in this dramatic symphony expresses his burning artistic conviction that there is a meaning to human existence and that a spirit guided by a noble thought will ultimately emerge as the victor.' I don't know if this is what Kabelac meant or not - but I like the thought!

Ancerl gives a fine, live 1961 performance in Prague.

[asin]B00004U65V[/asin]

Quote from: Dundonnell on February 11, 2012, 01:48:22 PM
Oh well.....at least I tried :(

I do have to say though that I have always found comparisons between composers or between particular compositions, especially those from different eras, invidious and, usually, unhelpful. In this case the comparisons seem particularly inappropriate ::)

Perhaps I can make my point a bit clearer - Kabelac's Passacaglia is a bit like Ravel's Bolero, it draws its effect from a steady intensification. But what I like about the chaconne and passacaglia as a form is that it offers the composer the possibilty to create variations 'on top' so to speak, whilst the bass remains the same. A passacaglia is a frame, like the sonnet form, and it's up to the composer/poet to 'enrich' that as much as possible. That's why I do think that in this case comparisons are valid. To my ears Kabelac's Passacaglia lacks variety and that's why I can't be as enthusiastic.... Those things happen!

Back when I was living in Prague, I heard Belohlavek conduct Kabelac's 4th Symphony for chamber orchestra. I liked the piece enough that the next day I went to the Bonton on Wenceslaus Sq. (ah, the good old days of physical record stores!) and bought this disc, which is an excellent anthology of his work:

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51jbkHdZC9L._SL500_AA300_.jpg)

Quote from: J. Z. Herrenberg on February 12, 2012, 12:12:36 AM
Perhaps I can make my point a bit clearer - Kabelac's Passacaglia is a bit like Ravel's Bolero, it draws its effect from a steady intensification. But what I like about the chaconne and passacaglia as a form is that it offers the composer the possibilty to create variations 'on top' so to speak, whilst the bass remains the same. A passacaglia is a frame, like the sonnet form, and it's up to the composer/poet to 'enrich' that as much as possible. That's why I do think that in this case comparisons are valid. To my ears Kabelac's Passacaglia lacks variety and that's why I can't be as enthusiastic.... Those things happen!

Ah....but I like Bolero ;D

Anyway, again with respect, my listening to a piece is based on a rather simple premise-not, could the composer have done this better or how does it compare with other works written in a similar form-but to 'does this piece grip me, excite me, move me'. You see, really I am a pretty simple soul, largely untutored and distinctly ill-informed about the technicalities of music. All I can do is to respond emotionally to the sounds I hear and if those sounds elicit an emotional reaction, if they make me sit up, if they make me want to rush to get my baton and start waving it frantically in the air ;D ;D then I know that the piece in question has "done it for me".

The Kabelac does :) Of course, I cannot expect everyone (or, indeed, anyone) else to share my enthusiasms.......but if I don't try to encourage others then I shall never know :(
It is disappointing if others do not react as I was hoping they might.....but, as you imply, one cannot win them all ;D  I shall continue.....it must be the old schoolteacher in me ;D ;D

Nothing wrong with trying to interest people in the things you are passionate about, Colin. I do that every time! Some are 'converted', others yawn...  ;D

Thank you both :)

Anyway...on the basis that "it's not what you know but who you know" that counts-

I sent the link to a friend of mine who just happens to be the father of a young professional conductor just about to have his first cd issued. The father was impressed enough to have sent the link on to the son :)  So....who knows ;D

I think that this comment (http://klacknermusic.wordpress.com/2010/06/20/something-cool-you-might-have-missed-mystery-of-time-by-miloslav-kabelac/) pretty much express my reactions to the Mystery of Time when I first heard it over a decade ago on a Supraphon CD that also included his Hamlet Improvisation and Janacek's Glagolitic Mass. It was a great used buy for $3. BTW I bought the CD for the Janacek since I had never heard of Kabelac.

Quote from: UB on February 12, 2012, 06:42:44 PM
I think that this comment (http://klacknermusic.wordpress.com/2010/06/20/something-cool-you-might-have-missed-mystery-of-time-by-miloslav-kabelac/) pretty much express my reactions to the Mystery of Time when I first heard it over a decade ago on a Supraphon CD that also included his Hamlet Improvisation and Janacek's Glagolitic Mass. It was a great used buy for $3. BTW I bought the CD for the Janacek since I had never heard of Kabelac.

Yeah, those are similar to my thoughts as well when I first heard Mystery of Time. I have to thank Colin for introducing it to me. I've never even heard Kabelac before. I don't know why this is. I usually am quite in an exploratory mood when it comes to Czech music, especially 20th Century Czech music. Anyway, I bought this same recording you have (w/ Glagolitic Mass). Can't wait to hear it through my stereo. 8)

It's interesting what that person says about an interesting title encouraging you to explore a piece.  That can definitely be true, something about time, stars, oceans, night, mirrors or some other huge or enigmatic subject can encourage a listen.  :D

Quote from: starrynight on Today at 12:49:54 (http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php?topic=19903.msg601012#msg601012)

It's interesting what that person says about an interesting title encouraging you to explore a piece.  That can definitely be true, something about time, stars, oceans, night, mirrors or some other huge or enigmatic subject can encourage a listen.  :D



Just as a person named Starrynight can encourage you to read his (her?) posts.  ;D

What a relief that at least three other people like 'The Mystery of Time' ;D

I was beginning to think that I was alone in the world ;D

Quote from: J. Z. Herrenberg on February 12, 2012, 12:12:36 AM
Perhaps I can make my point a bit clearer - Kabelac's Passacaglia is a bit like Ravel's Bolero, it draws its effect from a steady intensification. But what I like about the chaconne and passacaglia as a form is that it offers the composer the possibilty to create variations 'on top' so to speak, whilst the bass remains the same. A passacaglia is a frame, like the sonnet form, and it's up to the composer/poet to 'enrich' that as much as possible. That's why I do think that in this case comparisons are valid. To my ears Kabelac's Passacaglia lacks variety and that's why I can't be as enthusiastic.... Those things happen!

I think that's an interesting comparison to Ravel.  Ravel's piece has a quite memorable melodic idea with quite a lot of character.  This piece in comparison doesn't have that really, the ideas feel duller and possibly blunt the impact of the more dramatic episodes as well.  I'm not saying it's a terrible piece, just that I think the musical ideas limit its appeal somewhat.  And remembering that we have Ancerl and the Czech Philharmonic here who are digging out every bit of atmosphere and texture they can from this piece I wonder if another performer could really do any better than this.

I am currently listening to 'Mystery of Time' which I've been forced to dig out of my ever growing CD collection (Ancerl/Supraphon) as a result of this interesting discussion. Yes, it is a fine and compelling work which I like very much.  The doleful opening reminded me a bit of the opening of Shostakovich's 11th Symphony, with the muffled timpani in the background. As Colin says it would be great to hear this work in modern sound. I also played Symphony No 4 today and enjoyed its somewhat grim and unsmiling countenance. There is a bleak integrity about Kabelac's music which, in a way, reminded me of the appeal (for me at least) of Kokkonen's music.

I found the end of 'Mystery of Time''when it all winds down to be very moving.

Thanks Colin to alerting me to how good this work is.

I don't disagree about the integrity, he doesn't go for cheap effects.  The drama of the piece is subdued though, and it feels to me that the ideas don't fulfill the dramatic potential.  Sometimes he just keeps on at an idea like from 17.20 onwards, just bludgeoning us with it and it feels a bit stolid.  Maybe other music from around this time can feel like that too from more famous composers, but I'm not afraid to criticise that either.

Quote from: starrynight on February 14, 2012, 02:37:37 AM
I don't disagree about the integrity, he doesn't go for cheap effects.  The drama of the piece is subdued though, and it feels to me that the ideas don't fulfill the dramatic potential.  Sometimes he just keeps on at an idea like from 17.20 onwards, just bludgeoning us with it and it feels a bit stolid.  Maybe other music from around this time can feel like that too from more famous composers, but I'm not afraid to criticise that either.

An interesting point. I agree about the not going for cheap effects. I've just listened to it three times consecutively - as soon as I got to the end I wanted to listen again. But next time I'll take note at 17.20 and see what I think.

Quote from: vandermolen on February 14, 2012, 02:58:31 AM
An interesting point. I agree about the not going for cheap effects. I've just listened to it three times consecutively - as soon as I got to the end I wanted to listen again. But next time I'll take note at 17.20 and see what I think.

"........three times consecutively" ;D

I am delighted that you have taken to the work again, Jeffrey :)

I admit that I too had not listened to the work for some time, despite my great liking for it, and playing it again reminded me of how much impact it has :) In a way it seems to be a precursor of the techniques used by some of the minimalists decades later: the slow, deliberate working up of a cumulative effect to a massive climax, followed by the winding-down following that climax. And yes, there certainly is that same Shostakovich-like sense of growing menace at the beginning.

One swallow does not a summer make and one or two works do not immediately qualify Kabelac as a great composer but this evidence, as I said in my initial post, suggests that his other music would merit further investigation.

I have a piece for six percussionists,... will check.

Quote from: Dundonnell on February 14, 2012, 04:48:54 AM
One swallow does not a summer make and one or two works do not immediately qualify Kabelac as a great composer but this evidence, as I said in my initial post, suggests that his other music would merit further investigation.

I'm not sure I care if someone qualifies as 'great' (however that happens anyway, I'm not sure it's always that objective).  All that matters to me is whether I enjoy the music.  And I think his music could warrant more investigation (to find something better though). 

Your remarks earlier make me think you seem to want confirmation from others here rather than simply trusting your own judgement.

Quote from: Dundonnell on February 14, 2012, 04:48:54 AM
"........three times consecutively" ;D

I am delighted that you have taken to the work again, Jeffrey :)

I admit that I too had not listened to the work for some time, despite my great liking for it, and playing it again reminded me of how much impact it has :) In a way it seems to be a precursor of the techniques used by some of the minimalists decades later: the slow, deliberate working up of a cumulative effect to a massive climax, followed by the winding-down following that climax. And yes, there certainly is that same Shostakovich-like sense of growing menace at the beginning.

One swallow does not a summer make and one or two works do not immediately qualify Kabelac as a great composer but this evidence, as I said in my initial post, suggests that his other music would merit further investigation.

I think that you are right Colin about the proto-minimalist aspects of the 'Mystery of Time'. The sense of looming threat at the start is very compelling - and the end deeply moving.  I was also reminded of Ross Edwards's monothematic Symphony 'Da pacem Domine'.

Quote from: Dundonnell on February 14, 2012, 04:48:54 AMAnd yes, there certainly is that same Shostakovich-like sense of growing menace at the beginning.

Which is probably why I like it so well. ;) :D

Quote from: starrynight on February 14, 2012, 06:38:41 AMYour remarks earlier make me think you seem to want confirmation from others here rather than simply trusting your own judgement.

I'm not Colin and I can't speak for him, but I think that's an error on your part. Mystery of Time is a fantastic work IMHO. Colin knows this and he's simply sharing his love for the music, so what's wrong with that? If it weren't for his enthusiasm, I wouldn't have even known about it! My blatant enthusiam for Koechlin for all those months wasn't because I was insecure with my own opinion of his music, but rather I wanted other people to give him a chance too.

Quote from: Mirror Image on February 14, 2012, 10:41:40 AM
Mystery of Time is a fantastic work IMHO. Colin knows this

In your opinion.  And Colin shares your opinion.  Some others may not.  :D

Quote from: Mirror Image on February 14, 2012, 10:41:40 AM
I'm not Colin and I can't speak for him, but I think that's an error on your part. Mystery of Time is a fantastic work IMHO. Colin knows this and he's simply sharing his love for the music, so what's wrong with that? If it weren't for his enthusiasm, I wouldn't have even known about it! My blatant enthusiam for Koechlin for all those months wasn't because I was insecure with my own opinion of his music, but rather I wanted other people to give him a chance too.

OT

I've just got hold of a copy of 'Persian Hours' (orchestral version) - it's wonderfully atmospheric. I think that it's you I have to thank for introducing me to the magical 'Vers la voute etoilee'. Now back to Kabelac!

Quote from: vandermolen on February 14, 2012, 12:57:03 PM
OT

I've just got hold of a copy of 'Persian Hours' (orchestral version) - it's wonderfully atmospheric. I think that it's you I have to thank for introducing me to the magical 'Vers la voute etoilee'. Now back to Kabelac!

Thanks, Jeffrey. What version did you get of Persian Hours? Segerstam or Holliger?

Quote from: starrynight on February 14, 2012, 06:38:41 AM
I'm not sure I care if someone qualifies as 'great' (however that happens anyway, I'm not sure it's always that objective).  All that matters to me is whether I enjoy the music.  And I think his music could warrant more investigation (to find something better though). 

Your remarks earlier make me think you seem to want confirmation from others here rather than simply trusting your own judgement.

The references in my posts to hoping that others would like the work were, as has already been suggested on my behalf, intended to convey the genuine desire I have to share my enthusiasms for certain composers and certain compositions. As I know full well, and have acknowledged, not everyone will be convinced and some may be totally antipathetic to the music I recommend. That's fine :) As I said, you can't win 'em all.

The post in which I said that it was a 'relief that at least three other people liked the work' and that 'I was not alone in the world' was wholly and entirely jocular. In the event that I was indeed the only member of this site who enjoyed 'The Mystery of Time' I would, I admit, be disappointed but it would not by one iota change my perception of the work or my judgment of its worth :)

Don't worry, you can add me to the list too. And whilst I'm here, a word for the Eight Preludes for piano (op 30 I think, I can't find the score right now). Some of these also feature that kind of proto-minimalist writing, or a similar kind of litany-technique which is very effective. Supposedly these are his finest piano pieces, and they are, IMO, some of the best music in the Czech piano repertoire.

I just listened to the Passacaglia, thanks to the fact that I like many of the same composers as the OP, and wow, I'm blown away completely. Is his other music like this?

Quote from: Dundonnell on February 14, 2012, 02:36:44 PM
The references in my posts to hoping that others would like the work were, as has already been suggested on my behalf, intended to convey the genuine desire I have to share my enthusiasms for certain composers and certain compositions. As I know full well, and have acknowledged, not everyone will be convinced and some may be totally antipathetic to the music I recommend. That's fine :) As I said, you can't win 'em all.

The post in which I said that it was a 'relief that at least three other people liked the work' and that 'I was not alone in the world' was wholly and entirely jocular. In the event that I was indeed the only member of this site who enjoyed 'The Mystery of Time' I would, I admit, be disappointed but it would not by one iota change my perception of the work or my judgment of its worth :)

I think it's always likely you will find someone else who will find the positive aspects of a piece prominent on first listen, just like some will find the negative aspects prominent.  It would be interesting if some change their opinion after several listens as well.  I still don't get why you talk about someone qualifying as a great composer though.  If he was simply a good composer wouldn't that be alright?  I can recognise some good things in the music, but also some not so good.  That doesn't mean I have judged him and placed him in some category though, I have simply given an opinion on a couple of pieces, like others.     

Just reheard the "Mystery ..."  & like it. I hear some hints of Janacek ("Taras Bulba") in the later part of the work, and I also like the changes occurring about 11 minutes into the work, leaving space for various events. One could imagine it being the 1st movement of a symphony that would have been really grandiose ... Its cinematic qualities would probably benefit from a hi-end modern recording of the Chandos sort - perhaps combined with more Czech 20th century orchestral works, like Lubos Fiser´s "15 Pictures", Jan Klusak´s "Mahler Variations" + one or two other, unknown works ...

The "Hamlet Improvisation" is probably less substantial, but seems somewhat more modern and fragmented. Again, there must be some Czech-folksyness involved (?) - after 7mins for instance some similarities also with the musical language of the later Martinu, then perhaps Janacek ...

The Cello Sonata is an earlier, IMO probably less interesting work (1946), but dark and quite martial, and was recorded on Panton cd 1990 81 1014-2, soloists Veis & Veisova. The Scherzo is perhaps the most fascinating section with a rather wild, almost "cimbalom"-like piano accompanying the cello. The other work on that disc, a Cello Sonata by Jan Hanus, has a bit more diversity to offer IMO, though. The CD´s total playing time is only 42 mins.

Quote from: Mirror Image on February 14, 2012, 02:28:32 PM
Thanks, Jeffrey. What version did you get of Persian Hours? Segerstam or Holliger?

OT

Segerstam on Marco Polo John (hope I've got that right - apologies if not).  Which is better? I also ordered a new piano version on Naxos.

Quote from: Mirror Image on February 14, 2012, 10:41:40 AM
I'm not Colin and I can't speak for him, but I think that's an error on your part. Mystery of Time is a fantastic work IMHO. Colin knows this and he's simply sharing his love for the music, so what's wrong with that? If it weren't for his enthusiasm, I wouldn't have even known about it! My blatant enthusiam for Koechlin for all those months wasn't because I was insecure with my own opinion of his music, but rather I wanted other people to give him a chance too.

There's a few other things too.  First of all I said it made it seem like it was wanting confirmation so I was not presuming anything and was opening it up for a response, and many people are like that out there as I can tell on popular music forums for instance.  Second, I wasn't commenting on your specific reason for talking about Koechlin (who I first heard in the 90s), and you cannot speak for everyone out there anyway because not everyone is like you.  Also I myself have probably discovered more good classical music just by looking at many composers randomly than just by taking recommendations.  Much of the music out there which is worth hearing isn't really recommended by people (particularly in the area of modern classical which has a small listener base) as most people don't know about it anyway.

I do regret mentioning the concept of 'the great composer'. Categorising composers as 'great' or 'good' is a bit of a red herring. So let's leave that to one side, shall we ;D

As for 'recommendations': yes, I do make recommendations and I am both delighted and flattered when some people follow up on these recommendations and like what they hear enough to comment on that fact. Others are, of course, fully entitled to ignore these recommendations and pursue their own investigative processes. I make no claims for the quality of my tastes or the perspicacity of my judgments.

I do know, however, a handful of members of this site quite well now and I think that I have at least an inkling into their own musical tastes. The benefit of a board like this is to suggest to others that they might like a particular piece. If they don't then so be it. It certainly is not the end of the world ;D

The friend to whom I sent the link, not a member of this forum but someone who used to run an orchestra and has taken it to Prague to perform Martinu, was surprised that Belohlavek had not taken up the Kabelac and done it at the Proms. But perhaps Belohlavek doesn't much like it ;D

Quote from: Luke on February 14, 2012, 03:55:03 PM
Don't worry, you can add me to the list too. And whilst I'm here, a word for the Eight Preludes for piano (op 30 I think, I can't find the score right now). Some of these also feature that kind of proto-minimalist writing, or a similar kind of litany-technique which is very effective. Supposedly these are his finest piano pieces, and they are, IMO, some of the best music in the Czech piano repertoire.

Agh, awesome music unrecorded, whyyyy ;__; I also like "interesting" piano music - if a composer finds an interesting personal language, and can express it well through such a pure medium as a solo instrument, then it has to be special.

Quote from: vandermolen on February 15, 2012, 12:19:18 AM
OT

Segerstam on Marco Polo John (hope I've got that right - apologies if not).  Which is better? I also ordered a new piano version on Naxos.

Well, both orchestral recordings of The Persian Hours are worth owning I think. I'm not, however, a big fan of Segerstam's other Koechlin recordings as I think he underplays a lot of the music and doesn't give the right kind of detail. Holliger, on the other hand, is spot-on with his interpretations. Dynamic, detailed, and emotional.

Quote from: starrynight on February 15, 2012, 04:15:27 AMMuch of the music out there which is worth hearing isn't really recommended by people (particularly in the area of modern classical which has a small listener base) as most people don't know about it anyway.

Somebody knows about it or it wouldn't ever be mentioned and there wouldn't be recordings being made. Your comment makes no sense.

Quote from: Lethevich on February 15, 2012, 06:20:51 AM
Agh, awesome music unrecorded, whyyyy ;__; I also like "interesting" piano music - if a composer finds an interesting personal language, and can express it well through such a pure medium as a solo instrument, then it has to be special.

Don't worry, it isn't unrecorded.

[asin]B001F6YZ9K[/asin]

mp3 clips available from here too. I have the score too, if anyone else is into that sort of thing...  ;)

Dude!

Quote from: Luke on February 15, 2012, 08:04:13 AM
Don't worry, it isn't unrecorded.

Ooh, danke. I saw the word "score" and took it to be a bad omen ;D I'm picking that disc up.

To my surprise there is this too (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Kabel%C3%A1c-Piano-Works-Miloslav/dp/B00004SBEN/ref=sr_1_7?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1329327089&sr=1-7). It's one of those things that I don't know if the current price is stable and worth seeing if it nudges down a bit, or whether it's disappearing and might soon be unavailable -_-

Edit: picked it up, can't risk it disappearing and it's not too much above the usual new price.

Feeling a bit dim, because the one I actually own is the one you just posted. The one I linked to was merely the first I found, plus I read a very nice review of it a day or two ago which had kept it fresh in my mind.

Quote from: Luke on February 15, 2012, 09:11:04 AM
Feeling a bit dim, because the one I actually own is the one you just posted. The one I linked to was merely the first I found, plus I read a very nice review of it a day or two ago which had kept it fresh in my mind.

It took much restraint not to get the accompanying Supraphon disc for cello/piano works, but that one is now on my wishlist too - they are both programmed so nicely.

[asin]B000RO9Z5U[/asin]

Quote from: Mirror Image on February 15, 2012, 07:45:00 AM
Well, both orchestral recordings of The Persian Hours are worth owning I think. I'm not, however, a big fan of Segerstam's other Koechlin recordings as I think he underplays a lot of the music and doesn't give the right kind of detail. Holliger, on the other hand, is spot-on with his interpretations. Dynamic, detailed, and emotional.

Many thanks.

Quote from: vandermolen on February 15, 2012, 09:56:02 AM
Many thanks.

My pleasure.

Only p. 3, and this has already become a thread about Koechlin? ; )

Quote from: karlhenning on February 15, 2012, 10:00:00 AM
Only p. 3, and this has already become a thread about Koechlin? ; )

:P

Can I remind anybody who might be interested in exploring more Kabelac that his Symphony No.3 for organ, brass and timpani can be heard in a performance conducted by Libor Pesekon YouTube:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o00Rq2VvOUI

Quote from: Dundonnell on February 15, 2012, 11:16:05 AM
Can I remind anybody who might be interested in exploring more Kabelace that his Symphony No.3 for organ, brass and timpani can be heard in a performance conducted by Libor Pesekon YouTube:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o00Rq2VvOUI

Good grief ;D The totally rhetorical nature of the opening movement, coupled with the "who cares if you think it's naive" tone somehow simultaneously reminded me of John Williams' Imperial music filtered through Pärt's 3rd symphony, and maybe even bits of Kancheli ??? The aesthetic comes very dangerously close to tripping a few alarms in my head, but in the end the serious-mindedness of it all is simultaneously impressive and endearing. Panufnik may also be a comparison, though I haven't heard his music in a while, and I recall it being rather more elusive than this piece.

Edit: I realise these random comparisons will probably infuriate, but I also just heard the passacaglia for the first time (I didn't have a spare half hour when reading the thread initially), and I am kinda digging the "Pettersson 8th bassline with all other bits removed" vibe of the whole opening. I really like how chaste it is, yet with a considerable inner-vibrancy developing as it plods along.

Quote from: Mirror Image on February 15, 2012, 07:48:12 AM
Somebody knows about it or it wouldn't ever be mentioned and there wouldn't be recordings being made. Your comment makes no sense.

I said most people don't know not everyone.  So my comment actually did make sense.  There will be an awful lot of music out there that those on message boards don't know that will be very good.  I think there are hundreds of modern composers who are worth giving a chance, all people have to do is seach and listen to it, a much better way to assess than reading lots of words.

Quote from: starrynight on February 15, 2012, 08:37:24 PM
I said most people don't know not everyone.  So my comment actually did make sense.  There will be an awful lot of music out there that those on message boards don't know that will be very good.  I think there are hundreds of modern composers who are worth giving a chance, all people have to do is seach and listen to it, a much better way to assess than reading lots of words.

I am afraid that the logic of that would suggest that one should have written something like: "There is a Czech composer called Miloslav Kabelac(1908-73). I am not going to tell you anything about him. Go investigate for yourselves."

That would make for a rather sterile and uninteresting board, on which all we ever talked about were composers we were all familiar with.

However, this is really not helping further discussion of Kabelac himself. I am, quite frankly, amazed that we have got to page 4 ;D

 Quote from: Dundonnell on Today at 10:02:04 AM (http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php?topic=19903.msg601994#msg601994)

However, this is really not helping further discussion of Kabelac himself. I am, quite frankly, amazed that we have got to page 4 ;D

   
Part of that was the inevitable Koechlin diversion ; )

That Ančerl disc is an obvious temptation.

I never said you shouldn't have started a thread though.  What I said was that there is much more out there than you would find on this board, and that I don't require a recommendation here to look at a composer.  I don't mind seeing your opinion but I can also have another opinion.   And I'm happy there is a bit of discussion, so much better than 'I like this piece', 'I don't like that piece'. which is what you normally get.  Though some people (and I'm not saying you) tend to be uncomfortable with discussion of music they like if it turns critical, over-identifying with it.

Quote from: starrynight on February 16, 2012, 05:19:17 AM
I never said you shouldn't have started a thread though.  What I said was that there is much more out there than you would find on this board, and that I don't require a recommendation here to look at a composer.  I don't mind seeing your opinion but I can also have another opinion.   And I'm happy there is a bit of discussion, so much better than 'I like this piece', 'I don't like that piece'. which is what you normally get.  Though some people (and I'm not saying you) tend to be uncomfortable with discussion of music they like if it turns critical, over-identifying with it.

Cannot-and therefore will not ;D- quarrel with any of that :) :)

Quote from: karlhenning on February 16, 2012, 05:14:59 AM
Quote from: Dundonnell on Today at 10:02:04 AM (http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php?topic=19903.msg601994#msg601994)

However, this is really not helping further discussion of Kabelac himself. I am, quite frankly, amazed that we have got to page 4 ;D

   
Part of that was the inevitable Koechlin diversion ; )

That Ančerl disc is an obvious temptation.

Apologies for my part in the Koechlin diversion. Now back to the Miaskovsky discussion  8)

Quote from: vandermolen on February 16, 2012, 01:22:00 PM
Apologies for my part in the Koechlin diversion. Now back to the Miaskovsky discussion  8)

:P

Yes, now back to the Honegger discussion. ;) :D

'Mystery of Time' has been the discovery of 2012 for me so far (thank you Colin). I am reminded in places of Shostakovich's 11th Symphony in places; not just the muffled timpani and looming threat at the start but also during the noisy climax too. From about 20:15, as the music winds down, I find it incredibly moving - there is a great sense of sadness, culminating in an eloquent violin solo.

Thanks for talking about elements in the music.  Often I find people don't really want to talk about why they like something by looking at the actual music but just give vague terms of praise.  One of the things people like about it I suspect is the ambition, but for me that is always secondary to whether I think a piece successfully accomplishes its aims (whether they be large or small).  And your remark shows that some may like it as it reminds them of a style of another composer they may rate highly.

Quote from: vandermolen on February 17, 2012, 12:39:52 AM
'Mystery of Time' has been the discovery of 2012 for me so far (thank you Colin). I am reminded in places of Shostakovich's 11th Symphony in places; not just the muffled timpani and looming threat at the start but also during the noisy climax too. From about 20:15, as the music winds down, I find it incredibly moving - there is a great sense of sadness, culminating in an eloquent violin solo.

I am naturally very pleased that you are so taken by 'The Mystery of Time'. Jeffrey :) I must confess that I did think that you would ;D

In order to be a bit more analytical than my somewhat more vague expressions of enthusiasm I have looked out a couple of reviews. I am quoting from them not to attempt to prove a point-that would be silly-but to provide more descriptive comment on the music itself.

I realise that quoting David Hurwitz is not always advisable  ;D but he thinks:

"Miloslav Kabelác (1908-79) was one of the most important 20th century Czech composers, and he deserves far greater recognition beyond the borders of his homeland. These classic performances, very cleanly remastered and sounding better than ever, show him at his best. Mystery of Time lives up to its title: it's a passacaglia that fascinatingly plays with rhythm and motion as the composer gradually builds up varying sonic layers until the music seems to move from slow to fast and back to slow, even though the underlying pulse hardly varies at all. The whole thing proceeds with a relaxed inevitability that betrays the hand of a master composer, and Karel Ancerl's performance has the transparency of texture and instrumental balance the music demands."

The following is an extract from the review which appeared on Musicweb:

"Miloslav Kabelac began composing in the 1930s and his formative experiences during the Nazi occupation and the Soviet regime included the suppression of his works with varying degrees of thoroughness. The Mystery of Time begins with the merest susurration. The effect is rather like the shadowed murmurings of Ives' Unanswered Question. From about 7.00 (and later at 14.53) the music takes on a stronger rhythmic interest sounding Sibelian (though the notes suggest Janáček) rising to brazen piercing brass protests. The chesty and hoarse brass writing at 10.12 hints at familiarity with Suk's Asrael. At the climax at 13.00 and 18.11 the fate motif from Beethoven 5 is alluded to. This is music riven with conflict yet fitfully heroic in character as at the magnificent writing for high pealing trumpets (19.06). A more serene tone is struck by the solo violin in the last few minutes of this impressive piece. The solo line yet manages to avoid undue sweetness. There is something toiling about that solo voice rather than utterly at peace.

Kabelac made time the subject of several of his pieces. Such elitist philosophical obsessions were anathema to the communist state - another reason why his music was officially stigmatised. The work was premiered by the same forces as here on 23 October 1957."

and a complete list of the major orchestral works(also from Musicweb):

Symphonies of Kabelac
Symphony No. 1 in D for strings and percussions, op.11 (1941 – 1942)
Symphony No. 2 in C for large orchestra, op. 15 (1942 – 1946)
Symphony No. 3 in F for organ, brasses and timpani, op. 33 (1948 – 1957)
Symphony No. 4 in A. "Chamber Symphony", op. 36 (1954 – 1958)
Symphony No. 5 in B flat minor, "Dramatic", for soprano without text, and orchestra, op. 41 (1960)
Symphony No. 6 "Concertante", for clarinet and orchestra, op. 44 (1961 – 1962)
Symphony No. 7 for orchestra and reciter on the composer s text after the Bible, op. 52 (1967 – 1968)
Symphony No. 8 "Antiphonies", for soprano, mixed choir, percussions and organ, on the words from the Bible, op. 54 (1970)


Further orchestral works of Kabelac
Overture No. 2 for large orchestra, op. 17 (1947)
Childish Moods. Little orchestral suite, op. 22 (1955)
Suite from the music to Sophokles Electra for alto, female choir and orchestra, op. 28a (1956)
Mystery of Time, Passacaglia for large orchestra, op. 31 (1953 – 1957)
Three Melodramas to accompany the play Kuo Mo-jo "Master of Nine Songs" for reciter and chamber orchestra, op. 34b (1957)
Hamlet Improvisation for large orchestra, op. 46 (1962 – 1963)
Reflections. Nine miniatures for orchestra, op. 49 (1963 – 1964)
Metamorphoses II, for piano and orchestra, op. 58 (1979)

Read more: http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2010/Feb10/Beethoven_up01232131.htm#ixzz1mdks2cPi

Read more: http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2003/Dec03/Kabalec_Hanus.htm#ixzz1mdk1qJjB

That second review certainly name-drops enough composers (symphonic masters like Beethoven and Sibelius included).  :D  Ultimately though it will have to stand on it's own individual identity.

Also, while it is interesting to read what some reviews say and I'm not disparaging that, I am probably more interested in what someone has to say themselves about it.

Thank you starrynight (is this name after the Van Gogh painting?) for your kind comment and Colin thank you for always going to such trouble to fill out our knowledge of fine composers like Kabelac.

The interesting thing about 'Mystery of Time' is that I had the Ancerl/Gold Edition Supraphon CD in my collection for some time (having previously liked his Symphony No 5) but I don't remember listening properly to it until your postings about it. Now, it is rarely off the CD player here!

8 Inventions, for 6 percussionists, Op.45 (1962)

Very evocative expressions from 1962! These pieces were written for Les Percussions de Strassbourg, and reflect that group's penchant for sublime textures. As good a piece of its kind as I've heard, originally paired with Ohana on LP.

Quote from: vandermolen on February 18, 2012, 02:16:41 AM
Thank you starrynight (is this name after the Van Gogh painting?)

It may have been an influence on the name, though I just like the sound of it anyway.  Also quite a lot of modern classical music has a cosmic theme too.  I'm male as well to answer J. Z. Herrenberg. :)  Really I think it's men who tend to be on music boards more anyway, it's a male thing to obsess over music.

But getting back to this piece.  One reason I'm reluctant to hail it as great is that I suspect he did something better anyway, even if it isn't as ambitious.

Quote from: vandermolen on February 18, 2012, 02:16:41 AM
Thank you starrynight (is this name after the Van Gogh painting?) for your kind comment and Colin thank you for always going to such trouble to fill out our knowledge of fine composers like Kabelac.

The interesting thing about 'Mystery of Time' is that I had the Ancerl/Gold Edition Supraphon CD in my collection for some time (having previously liked his Symphony No 5) but I don't remember listening properly to it until your postings about it. Now, it is rarely off the CD player here!

Regardless of whether or not it is a "great" piece (and I make no such claim :)) the fact that my posting about 'Mystery of Time' has led you back to it, Jeffrey, is reward enough :)

@Luke: the piano works really are impressive, as individualistic as the orchestral music. I think I'm going to listen to these really often (and the disc is so well-filled: 79mins).

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51ZGvmZR1UL._SL500_AA300_.jpg) (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Kabel%C3%A1c-Piano-Works-Miloslav/dp/B00004SBEN/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1329853798&sr=8-4)

I hope it's reprinted soon, the current prices are rather uncool. The packaging can't seem to decide what the label is - Panton or Supraphon (perhaps the latter is a distributer, but even the graphic design looks like Supraphon).

After listening to the passacaglia again, I find myself prefering the 3rd symphony to it.

I remember vaguely that I've sung the praise of Kabelac before... propably in the "old" forum.
Anyway, I like quite a lot of his music.
The passion ànd sadness in his music movingly reflect those dark communist years.
Life must have been difficult for him !
I quote from the Supraphon cd ( symph. nr 4/ reflections etc) : "...(Kabelac) maintained friendly relations with Polish composers and liked to attend the Warsaw Autumn festival. At a time when useless debates were going on, on the official level in Czechoslavakia and elsewhere in eastern Europe, about socialist realism and western formalism. Warsaw had not lost contact with contemporary developments in European music. Kabelac was keenly looking for new paths, new possibilities and new stimuli which he then transformed and adapted in his very personal way...."

In Prague I found a short (ca 08'.50'')  cantata for chorus and orchestra "Milostna" ( Love song/ 1962 ) - it's Kabelac at his most lyrical and yearning, vaguely folksy, just gorgeous.

Metamorphoses II of the Chorale Hospodine pomiluj ny for piano and orchestra (opus 58) 
available on a Panton cd 81 1143-2 . (Metamorfoses I (opus 57) apparently is a choral version of Hospodine...)
The tune of the hymn is subject to variations in 6 short parts ( total timing ca 17') . A very strange, stark, ritualistic work . It's mostly slow and obsessive, quite repetitive and building towards a briefly jubilant peroration . Not pretty music, but ultimately haungtingly beautiful. I'll call it a prayer, or a litany.... Excellent performance by Frantisek Maxian and the Cezch Phil. under Neumann.
It is coupled with symph. nr 8 which is my least favorite Kabelac work : chorus, coloratura soprano, organ and percussion. It takes a superhuman coloratura to do this work justice I 'm afraid....
Yet, there's enough Kabelac to treasure. If only we could hear his music in the concerthall!
Peter

Quote from: Dundonnell on February 20, 2012, 05:25:07 PM
Regardless of whether or not it is a "great" piece (and I make no such claim :)) the fact that my posting about 'Mystery of Time' has led you back to it, Jeffrey, is reward enough :)

:)

Wife and daughter being out 'Mystery of Time' is on at top volume here again this morning (hope the neighbours enjoy it  ;D). The propulsive middle section reminded me of Honegger's 'Pacific 231'.

 ;D ;D

Sounds VERY intriguing,to put it mildly! ;D Emil Hlobil's not bad,either,but again Supraphon,like their British 'counterparts',seem to favour earlier more immeadiately approchable stuff.
>:(

Quote from: snyprrr on February 19, 2012, 01:54:34 PM
8 Inventions, for 6 percussionists, Op.45 (1962)

Very evocative expressions from 1962! These pieces were written for Les Percussions de Strassbourg, and reflect that group's penchant for sublime textures. As good a piece of its kind as I've heard, originally paired with Ohana on LP.

I agree, it is interesting and unpredictable.  The kind of experimentalism that won't appeal to some I guess, but better than the symphonic style stuff I have heard.

Quote from: vandermolen on February 25, 2012, 01:49:08 AM
Wife and daughter being out 'Mystery of Time' is on at top volume here again this morning (hope the neighbours enjoy it  ;D). The propulsive middle section reminded me of Honegger's 'Pacific 231'.

At times like this,I'm glad you're there and I'm here! :o
Slip a months supply of ear plugs through their letter box & they'll love you even more!!! ;D

I actually wish that Mysterium času / Mystery of time never left its haunting initial stage. I could listen to that non-development for hours. When the music switches gears, I lose most of my original interest.

Quote from: Rinaldo on March 14, 2012, 09:01:39 PM
I actually wish that Mysterium času / Mystery of time never left its haunting initial stage. I could listen to that non-development for hours. When the music switches gears, I lose most of my original interest.

Okay, scratch that. With a ten-foot, acid-filled marker.

Last week, I gave Mystery of Time a few more listens. And on top of that, three in a row during the past hour or so as I just couldn't restrain myself from hitting repeat.

It. Is. Amazing. Right. Through. To. The. End.

I've learned to embrace the musical development (which arches in an entirely different direction than I would have originally hoped for) and now the piece feels so complete, so encompassing. I perceive it as a chronicle of the universe going from the Big Bang to the Big Chill, which makes the opening passage even more mysterious (as time didn't exist before the universe went "wazzzzup!", right?). But Kabeláč was fond of the Bible so I'd say the intro is conjuring the idea of the elemental soup already being stirred.

Quote from: Rinaldo on July 13, 2012, 09:16:39 PM
Okay, scratch that. With a ten-foot, acid-filled marker.

Last week, I gave Mystery of Time a few more listens. And on top of that, three in a row during the past hour or so as I just couldn't restrain myself from hitting repeat.

It. Is. Amazing. Right. Through. To. The. End.

I've learned to embrace the musical development (which arches in an entirely different direction than I would have originally hoped for) and now the piece feels so complete, so encompassing. I perceive it as a chronicle of the universe going from the Big Bang to the Big Chill, which makes the opening passage even more mysterious (as time didn't exist before the universe went "wazzzzup!", right?). But Kabeláč was fond of the Bible so I'd say the intro is conjuring the idea of the elemental soup already being stirred.

I find it very moving when the tempo begins to slow down towards the end. With Bate Symphony No 4 this has been one of the great recent discoveries for me.

Quote from: vandermolen on July 14, 2012, 02:06:03 AM
I find it very moving when the tempo begins to slow down towards the end. With Bate Symphony No 4 this has been one of the great recent discoveries for me.

I'm now on my second listen to Kabelac's Fifth symphony. I will listen to 'The Mystery of Time' again,afterwards! This is actually the first time I have heard this composer. I finally made some cdrs this evening & I am listening now!
Marvellous! The Fifth symphony is quite something :o & when you've heard as much over the years as I have,it has to stand out a bit! The downloads are from AMF,by the way & some praise has to be in order for the singer! Wow! This must be a heck of a part to learn!
  Funnily enough,this Symphony actually,for some reason,evoked memories of a broadcast of Patric Standford's Fifth Symphony. A marvellous,somewhat surreal score,sung gloriously by Joan Rodgers. The stodgy,humourless critics panned it! The miserable sods! >:( Of course,I'm not suggesting any similarities;but they are both very original,striking scores which both have very challenging parts for a female soloist.
  I also downloaded the Dobias Second Symphony,which Dundonnell seems to rate very highly!

I've attended a fantastic performance of Kabeláč's Reflections tonight. It opened a programme that climaxed with a rousing Beethoven's Eight (the timpanist literally headbanged his way through the final movement) but I couldn't stop thinking about the profound experience of finally hearing Kabeláč's music live. I wish he was performed more, at least in his homeland >:(

There was an older man sitting in a row behind me who, during one of the pauses, uttered "terrible.. terrible.." to his friends — I've almost jumped out of my seat and strangled him! I couldn't believe the difference in perception of such a wondrous piece. I haven't heard Reflections prior to the concert but now I can't wait to hear them again.

Well, some good news — there's a complete symphonic cycle in the works, Prague Radio Symphony Orchestra under the baton of Marko Ivanović. Finally!

Quote from: Rinaldo on October 05, 2012, 04:39:45 AM
Well, some good news — there's a complete symphonic cycle in the works, Prague Radio Symphony Orchestra under the baton of Marko Ivanović. Finally!

Very good news and wonderful to hear his music live. Is there a recording of 'Reflections'? 'Mystery of Time' is one of the great discoveries of the last year for me.  I never tire of plying and find the sequence where the momentum starts to slow down, towards the end, to be very moving.

Quote from: vandermolen on October 06, 2012, 12:39:18 AM
Very good news and wonderful to hear his music live. Is there a recording of 'Reflections'? 'Mystery of Time' is one of the great discoveries of the last year for me.  I never tire of plying and find the sequence where the momentum starts to slow down, towards the end, to be very moving.

Reflections are available on this disc:

[asin]B000024WC0[/asin]
which I've yet to acquire. Worth getting for the 4th symphony alone, or so I've been told.

Quote from: Rinaldo on October 05, 2012, 04:39:45 AM
Well, some good news — there's a complete symphonic cycle in the works, Prague Radio Symphony Orchestra under the baton of Marko Ivanović. Finally!

Very interesting.  What label is that?

Quote from: The new erato on October 06, 2012, 06:09:51 AM
Very interesting.  What label is that?

Not sure, I just stumbled upon this short notice (http://m.rozhlas.cz/socr_eng/video/_zprava/recording-kabelacs-symphonies--1051982) from the Czech radio. There's a video interview embedded (in Czech) but the conductor talks only about the artistic merits of Kabeláč and the difficulties in performing his music.

Quote from: Rinaldo on October 06, 2012, 07:03:41 AM
Not sure, I just stumbled upon this short notice (http://m.rozhlas.cz/socr_eng/video/_zprava/recording-kabelacs-symphonies--1051982) from the Czech radio. There's a video interview embedded (in Czech) but the conductor talks only about the artistic merits of Kabeláč and the difficulties in performing his music.

OK; thanks. I hope it's not cpo; that will mean we'll have to wait for 10 years......

Quote from: Rinaldo on October 06, 2012, 05:50:01 AM
Reflections are available on this disc:

[asin]B000024WC0[/asin]
which I've yet to acquire. Worth getting for the 4th symphony alone, or so I've been told.

That's great news - especially as I have that CD  :o

On a separate note I wish that Supraphon would issue there fine old recording of Kalabis's 'Sinfonia Pacis' (Symphony No 2) on CD. There is a recording by Smetacek but it was not as good. There is a wonderful tolling bell like passage at the end.  Sorry for OT comment.

Returning to this thread after my eight months of all-consuming, "obsessional" cataloguing ;D ;D........

I am amazed but delighted that it is still running, absolutely delighted that Jeffrey is still referring to 'Mystery of Time' as his "discovery of the year" :) :), and totally overwhelmed that for Rinaldo it went from "losing interest" in March to it all clicking for him(so to speak) in July :) :) :)

You all know by this time what I think of the piece ;D ;D ;D

I would reiterate though that if you compare the two readings I know (something I seldom do ;D)-the Ancerl of 1957 and the Vladimir Valek of 2008-you cannot fail to be struck that, although the Valek is in modern and clearly vastly superior sound quality, that latter conductor takes us through the piece too "carefully", it is a measured reading, studied, a little too subdued. The Ancerl, on the other hand, has such a sense of tension screwed up to the maximum degree of intensity, of such powerful and inexorable progression through the work that I can forgive the inferior sound quality.  It proves again that Ancerl WAS A SUPERB CONDUCTOR :)

Guess what I am just now listening to again.....for the first time in months ??? ;D ;D ;D

The passage around 7 minutes into the work....as the tempo steadily increases and the tension rises higher and higher, there is a modulation and then the trumpets blast through the rest of the orchestra as the basic beat is sustained, there is a brief pause and both resume with even greater ferocity until the timpani thunder out a counter-blast.....

WOW ;D ;D ;D

Quote from: Dundonnell on October 20, 2012, 03:24:08 PMThe Ancerl, on the other hand, has such a sense of tension screwed up to the maximum degree of intensity, of such powerful and inexorable progression through the work that I can forgive the inferior sound quality.  It proves again that Ancerl WAS A SUPERB CONDUCTOR :)

I'm usually unable to appreciate a recording that has poor sound quality (it puzzles me how people are able to argue profoundly about orchestral recordings made in the 30s or 40s.. for me the music is barely there) but this is not the case. While having a shiny, hiss-free SACD would be lovely, the Ančerl recording sounds so complete one can only wonder how it could be bettered.

But I'd kill to hear Mystery of Time live (and done well, obviously). It's been a few weeks since I've been to that performance of Reflections I've mentioned earlier and I still have flashbacks to what I've felt in the concert hall.

Hi!

I play this piece (Mystery of Time - Pasacaglia for large orchestra, op.31) on 23.5.14 in Vienna with the RadioSinfonieOrchester. I am the timpanist, and very looking forward to it. But i need a score. I cannot find it at all.
If anyone has an educated guess?

Very nice, Georg!

To your query, though, I haven't a clue.

Some library copies -

British Library - http://www.worldcat.org/title/mysterium-casu-mysterium-der-zeit-passacaglia-per-grande-orchestra-op-31-1957/oclc/495929190&referer=brief_results
Oxford - http://www.worldcat.org/title/mystere-du-temps-passacaglia-pour-grand-orchestre-op-31/oclc/43157390&referer=brief_results
München - http://www.worldcat.org/title/mystere-du-temps-passacaglia-pour-grand-orchestre-op-31/oclc/164747520&referer=brief_results
München, Zürich - http://www.worldcat.org/title/souborne-kriticke-vydani-kritische-gesamtausgabe-complete-critical-edition/oclc/46789372&referer=brief_results - collected works edition (they may or may not be willing to lend this)
Frankfurt - http://www.worldcat.org/title/mysterium-der-zeit-passacaglia-op-31/oclc/725207154&referer=brief_results
Dresden, Utrecht - http://www.worldcat.org/title/mysterium-casu-passacaglia-pro-velky-orchestr-op-31-1957/oclc/20716174&referer=brief_results
Denmark - http://www.worldcat.org/title/mysterium-casu-passacaglia-pro-velky-orchestr-1957-op-31-mysterium-der-zeit/oclc/875663861&referer=brief_results

Could also try asking around on the orchestra circuit to see if any of them have it in their libraries.

Quote from: georg on May 01, 2014, 02:43:03 AM
Hi!

I play this piece (Mystery of Time - Pasacaglia for large orchestra, op.31) on 23.5.14 in Vienna with the RadioSinfonieOrchester. I am the timpanist, and very looking forward to it. But i need a score. I cannot find it at all.
If anyone has an educated guess?

How are all the other musicians finding parts? By the way, that is very exciting. Mystery of Time is a thrilling piece.

Nice to see this thread is still alive after all this time ;D ;D

(Making a very rare reappearance here :)  But...who knows...I MAY return before too long ;D)

Quote from: Dundonnell on May 02, 2014, 04:49:27 PM
Nice to see this thread is still alive after all this time ;D ;D

(Making a very rare reappearance here :)  But...who knows...I MAY return before too long ;D)

Am delighted to see this welcome guest appearance Colin. It was you who alerted me to the greatness of 'Mystery of Time', which I had in my collection but had never properly appreciated before. It is a wonderfully powerful and, towards the end, moving work.  :)

It is wonderful to hear that "Mystery of Time" is being performed live in Vienna later this month. Wish I could be there!

Rinaldo was so right in saying that, despite its age, the Ancerl recording is so intense, so marvellously idiomatic, so powerful, so unrestrained-in comparison with, at least, one more modern recording I have heard- that it is doubtful if it could be bettered.

Quote from: Dundonnell on May 03, 2014, 06:45:41 AM
It is wonderful to hear that "Mystery of Time" is being performed live in Vienna later this month. Wish I could be there!

Rinaldo was so right in saying that, despite its age, the Ancerl recording is so intense, so marvellously idiomatic, so powerful, so unrestrained-in comparison with, at least, one more modern recording I have heard- that it is doubtful if it could be bettered.

Totally agree.

I'll just leave this here:

http://areena.yle.fi/tv/2266187

Bless you, lescamil :) :)

I had never thought that I would live to actually see a performance of this work!

It is a difficult piece to bring off. Pacing the piece, building and maintaining the tension is all -important and Hrusa does a much better job of doing this than Vladimir Valek with the Prague Radio Symphony Orchestra in a recording I have from 2008. The Finnish Radio Symphony Orchestra is an excellent orchestra and they are playing music which, presumably, they were totally unfamiliar with. All in all, it is an excellent performance. No...not quite the equal of the historic Ancerl with the Czech Philharmonic from 1960 but, let's face it, that is probably an impossible ask. Ancerl was a great conductor and he had at his disposal an orchestra unrivalled in its time in Czech music.

The key moments for me are at around the 10-11 minutes into the recording where the horns, followed by the trumpets need to carve through the texture of the music in a way which really must make the listener's hair stand on end (yes, I know...hardly a very scientific way of expressing what I mean ;D). The Czech PO's brass have a "blaring quality" which achieves that end so successfully and in such a truly terrifying fashion. The Finnish brass do well but with not quite so dramatic an effect. Their woodwind are superb but, at times, the strings are not quite so successful in conveying the power of the music. Nicholas Kenyon once described an orchestra of students playing the Berlioz Requiem at the London Proms as playing "as if their very lives depended on it" and it is that sense of total and utter commitment which the piece needs. The Finns get very near....to be fair to them.

The closing pages of the piece also require very careful handling. After the huge climax at around 18 minutes in there is that wonderful, gradual winding-down but that needs to convey a sense of mysticism (in a way akin to the last movement of the Vaughan Williams 6th symphony) in which the inherent tension is not dissipated through too much relaxation, in which there is a sense of exhaustion after the shattering power of what has come before but no sense that the work is simply "petering out".

No doubt this is all hopelessly subjective and my incapacity to convey in words to describe exactly what I mean may well render it meaningless to others.

It is a very good performance and I am most deeply appreciative of the kindness in providing the link.

Quote from: lescamil on May 03, 2014, 11:38:14 AM
I'll just leave this here: http://areena.yle.fi/tv/2266187

Must. Not. Click. Right. Away. Have. Work. To. Do.

(THANKS!!!)

Quote from: DundonellNo doubt this is all hopelessly subjective and my incapacity to convey in words to describe exactly what I mean may well render it meaningless to others.

Quite the contrary, especially your words about the trumpets carving through. Spot on!

Quote from: Dundonnell on February 11, 2012, 10:41:18 AM
The generation of Czech composers born between 1900 and 1914 included a number of interesting figures whose music was recorded on LP by labels like Supraphon and Panton during the 1960s to 1980s but have, sadly, seldom made it to cd.

One of the apparently most interesting is Miloslav Kabelac. Kabelac was a pupil of Alois Haba, the pioneer of the use and integration of microtones into modern music and later of 12-tone techniques. Kabelac combined elements of 12-tone composition with the influence of Gregorian chant and of folk music. He was an active and influential figure both at Prague Radio and as a teacher at Prague Conservatory(where he introduced many young Czech composers to the latest developments in Western avant-garde musical techniques) but was sidelined after the Prague Spring of 1968 and the Soviet Invasion of Czechoslovakia.

Kabelac wrote a huge amount of work, orchestral, chamber, organ and choral. His eight symphonies were written for different combinations of instruments:as examples,  the Third is for organ, brass and timpani- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o00Rq2VvOUI; the Eighth for soprano, choir, percussion and organ.

I have the Symphony No.5 "Dramatic" for soprano and orchestra(1960) on cd but the only other piece I can claim to know well of this intriguing composer who, in my estimation deserves much more exposure and investigation, is his quite marvellous Passacaglia for large symphony orchestra "The Mystery of Time"(1953-57). This latter work is fortunate to be included on a Supraphon cd but can be heard here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5kxcD0mU9jo&feature=related

"The Mystery of Time" is one of my favourite 20th century compositions, never failing to thrill me as it grows from a sepulchral opening in gradually mounting intensity to a magnificent climax with Janacek-like fanfares underpinned by thunderous brass. I first heard the work on LP almost half a century ago and I still find it the epitome of the phrase 'awe-inspiring' ;D ;D

I'm sorry that Colin ('Dundonell') never posts here any more. He put me on to 'Mystery of Time' by Kabelac which I now consider a masterpiece of the 20th Century. It is, in some ways, an angry and relentless work but when it begins to lose momentum, towards the end, it demonstrates great compassion which I find very moving. It is a great example of a 'modernist' work with a compassionate soul. There only seems to be one recording and a very fine one but there should be more:
[asin]B00006I49K[/asin]

Quote from: vandermolen on June 16, 2016, 12:15:19 PM
I'm sorry that Colin ('Dundonell') never posts here any more. He put me on to 'Mystery of Time' by Kabelac which I now consider a masterpiece of the 20th Century. It is, in some ways, an angry and relentless work but when it begins to lose momentum, towards the end, it demonstrates great compassion which I find very moving. It is a great example of a 'modernist' work with a compassionate soul. There only seems to be one recording and a very fine one but there should be more:
[asin]B00006I49K[/asin]

I hope someone like Marko Ivanović might record it – or maybe he already did, during the symphonic cycle sessions for Editio Supraphon (still unreleased :( ). I hit Ivanović with an e-mail, will let you know if he responds.

Quote from: Rinaldo on June 17, 2016, 02:37:27 AMI hit Ivanović with an e-mail, will let you know if he responds.

Well, that was quick! The symphonic cycle should be out this September (no mention of Mystery, though).

Quote from: Rinaldo on June 17, 2016, 02:59:10 AM
Well, that was quick! The symphonic cycle should be out this September (no mention of Mystery, though).

Many thanks though - interesting news. Ancerl's performance of 'Mystery of Time' is great so I guess I should feel lucky that we have that one. Would be great to have a modern recording though.

Not much of his music to sample on Spotify--the 4th, 5th, 8th, Do Not Retreat, Metamorhphoses...Piano Etudes and songs. Kabelac has passion and fearlessness, but I don't see myself being converted any time soon. But thanks for the insight!

Quote from: Rons_talking on June 17, 2016, 02:15:55 PM
Not much of his music to sample on Spotify--the 4th, 5th, 8th, Do Not Retreat, Metamorhphoses...Piano Etudes and songs. Kabelac has passion and fearlessness, but I don't see myself being converted any time soon. But thanks for the insight!

Have you tried 'Mystery of Time'?
It comes up on You Tube.

Yup.

https://www.youtube.com/v/5kxcD0mU9jo

Quote from: Rinaldo on June 18, 2016, 03:02:38 AM
Yup.

https://www.youtube.com/v/5kxcD0mU9jo

Thanks for posting the link Rinaldo.  :)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UgeYpx-azF0

The one I linked two years ago is also on YouTube.

Quote from: lescamil on June 18, 2016, 12:44:21 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UgeYpx-azF0

The one I linked two years ago is also on YouTube.

Fantastic! Wonderful to hear and see a live modern performance, and a very fine one at that. I am more and more convinced that this is one of the great musical masterpieces of the 20th Century. Thank you for reminding us of the link.  :)

Sextet For Flute (Piccolo), Oboe (English Horn), 2 Clarinets (Saxophone And Bass Clarinet), French Horn, & Bassoon, Op.8

from a 1971 Supraphon LP liner notes:

The Sextet works with various modes in octave and fifth ambits. The Pastorale works on a mode built on the minor 2nd and 3rd intervals; the movement has 3 sections including a short reprise; the Scherzo is constructed in a mode in fifth ambit: its peculiarities include a modulation character dependent on a repitition of the fifth ambit, and the composer works with the series in the dimension of three ambits and with its segments in similar motion and contrary motion; the three-part 3rd movement - Andante melanconica - is based on segments of the chromatic scale; the middle-section is polyphonic.
The finale is in quasi-sonata form: it uses the material of an expansive interval series, and, in the development section, it features a folk-type melody instead of a subsidiary theme in the development section.

The four movements are on YT.

1982 re-issue of the 1960 LP:

(https://s32.postimg.org/it97xb1yd/bohuslavmartinu_miloslavkabelac_theparablesmyste.jpg)

Quote from: Scion7 on June 19, 2016, 06:39:36 PM
1982 re-issue of the 1960 LP:

(https://s32.postimg.org/it97xb1yd/bohuslavmartinu_miloslavkabelac_theparablesmyste.jpg)

I saw that too and what a great coupling, Martinu's 'Parables' (after St Exupery).

I hope the wait was worth it:

[asin]B01HOU7GW8[/asin]

Quote from: Rinaldo on September 16, 2016, 12:52:48 PM
I hope the wait was worth it:

[asin]B01HOU7GW8[/asin]

How very interesting! Thank you for making us aware of this. I have symphonies 4,5 and 8 and No.5 made a great impression on me. 'Mystery of Time' is one of my all time favourite works and I'm sorry that they couldn't find room for it as an addition to the set:
[asin]B00004U65V[/asin]

Just listened to Symphony 4 on You Tube. It is a very powerful and brooding poker-faced score with echoes of 'Mystery of Time' which is a magnificent score. I think that this set will be on my Christmas list.  8)

I'm greatly enjoying working my way through the boxed set (above) of Kabelac's symphonies. I'd never heard 1 or 2 before. They are both IMHO excellent - very dark and sombre war-time works. During the occupation of World War 2 Kabelac refused to divorce his Jewish wife and lost all his teaching posts and any chance of performances of his work. Obviously a man of great integrity. The music has 'nothing of the circus' about it. In a way the spirit of the music reminded me of Karl Amadeus Hartmann (another figure of great integrity) but slightly more approachably tonal from my point of view.

You lucky man! ;D I listened to a download of his fourth symphony recently. I was very impressed. It made me wonder why we don't hear more of Kabelac?! His music is so different from that of Martinu. He seems to remain in his shadow. I wasn't so keen on the Fifth. It certainly is a virtuouso piece and very original. I'm not too mad on soloists warbling along with orchestras,that's all! ::) The Fourth is really quite striking,though. And so is the Fifth. Just not my cup of tea,as they say! :( ;D Judging by all the uploaded files at the Art Music Forum,there are quite allot of neglected Czech (USSR era) composers,though!!

Which of Kabelac's symphonies do you like best after No's 4 & 5,vandermolen?

Thanks, gents, for the reminder (I think 8) ) I've now gone ahead an pulled the trigger on the Supraphon set.

Quote from: cilgwyn on July 12, 2017, 04:33:32 AM
[...] His music is so different from that of Martinu.

Now, why should you find that surprising?   0:)

This review describes his music as "mind-blowingly original". I'm sure I'd enjoy the Fifth allot more if I had that box set!! ::) :( ;D

http://www.theartsdesk.com/classical-music/classical-cds-weekly-kabel%C3%A1%C4%8D-ligeti-shostakovich (http://www.theartsdesk.com/classical-music/classical-cds-weekly-kabel%C3%A1%C4%8D-ligeti-shostakovich)

Supraphon LP's were cheap way back in 1980 and music by unknown, Czech contemporary composers very often, ended up in the sales bin at even lower prices. So I often bought even without listening... 
The fact that Karel Ancerl was often the conductor in Kabelac's works made me all ears, however... dark, somber, often tense music, with a tender, very human soul at its core. Life was not easy in Czechoslovakia during Kabelac lifetime....

A few of my favorites . I've sung their praises before...

(https://img.discogs.com/4s_BbBGXr1Vy7NkcudjK0WRMGPo=/fit-in/600x569/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():quality(90)/discogs-images/R-5793538-1402838475-8641.jpeg.jpg)

https://www.youtube.com/v/D795vwD4ERI

https://www.youtube.com/v/1a0lmH3lW8c

https://www.youtube.com/v/UgeYpx-azF0

https://www.youtube.com/v/oOze35rWRFo

I do not have the new Supraphon box yet. I look forward to discover symphonies 1,2,6 and 7. For the moment I find nr 8 the least pleasing to my ears.

Thank you for those links. Perhaps Kabelac's time has come,now?! The box set would be great for a birthday or Xmas. If the current regime (here) changes,I might buy it,anyway?!! ::) ;D

"Perhaps Kabelac's time has come,now?! "

I strongly doubt it. The "8 inventions for percussion" / of early Percussions de Strasbourg fame,  was, afaik, the only work that got (has) some notoriety. It is played by several groups now and was used as music for a ballet.
The rest...?
His music has never been played at The Proms (https://www.bbc.co.uk/proms/events/composers/by/a-z#K) for example. And I see no really big names (musicians, orchestras, ensembles...) who program him outside the Czech Republic...

But that new box will help!

Quote from: cilgwyn on July 12, 2017, 04:36:09 AM
Which of Kabelac's symphonies do you like best after No's 4 & 5,vandermolen?

Haven't listened to them all yet but think very highly of 1,2 and 5. Sorry that the box doesn't include 'Mystery of Time' - an absolutely terrific work IMHO. So, watch this space - may listen to some more tonight.
:)

Quote from: vandermolen on July 12, 2017, 09:50:49 AM
Haven't listened to them all yet but think very highly of 1,2 and 5. Sorry that the box doesn't include 'Mystery of Time' - an absolutely terrific work IMHO. So, watch this space - may listen to some more tonight.
:)

I agree with your endorsement of "Mystery of Time", a very powerful and finely crafted work.

Quote from: relm1 on July 12, 2017, 04:01:10 PM
I agree with your endorsement of "Mystery of Time", a very powerful and finely crafted work.

Modernism with a soul I think.

Quote from: vandermolen on July 13, 2017, 12:42:17 AM
Modernism with a soul I think.

There's more of this around than might be supposed  8)

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

Was captivated by Mystery of Time which I recently youtube 'd it following this thread. I've heard the 4th and 8th as well. Based on what I've read, I'd like to hear the 5th as well. The three works seem so dissimilar...I can live without the 8th (boy can I do without it!)which didn't do it for me. But the Mystery of Time  kept me riveted, in spite of the predictable trajectory. A great controlled yet intense use of orchestra! Other Kabelac symphonies I should hear?

Quote from: Robert101 on July 18, 2017, 05:09:03 AM
...I can live without the 8th (boy can I do without it!) which didn't do it for me.

What didn't you like in the piece?  (I've not heard any of the symphonies, so I am really just asking.)

8)

Quote from: Robert101 on July 18, 2017, 05:09:03 AM
Was captivated by Mystery of Time which I recently youtube 'd it following this thread. I've heard the 4th and 8th as well. Based on what I've read, I'd like to hear the 5th as well. The three works seem so dissimilar...I can live without the 8th (boy can I do without it!)which didn't do it for me. But the Mystery of Time  kept me riveted, in spite of the predictable trajectory. A great controlled yet intense use of orchestra! Other Kabelac symphonies I should hear?

Glad you liked MOT. No.5 is excellent IMHO - for orchestra with wordless soprano. I've only heard I and 2 from the boxed set and thought they were both great and kept me gripped throughout. I've been a bit sidetracked by Steinberg's 4th Symphony and Ben-Haim's No.2 (both excellent) but may listen to Nos 3 and 4 later today and hope to report back in due course.

Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on July 18, 2017, 05:11:29 AM
What didn't you like in the piece?  (I've not heard any of the symphonies, so I am really just asking.)

8)

It had three elements I don't care for in symphonies: Lots of (strange) vocals, loads of organ and overuse (IMHO) of percussion. It just didn't sound like his other works.

Quote from: Robert101 on July 18, 2017, 05:41:19 AM
It had three elements I don't care for in symphonies: Lots of (strange) vocals, loads of organ and overuse (IMHO) of percussion. It just didn't sound like his other works.

Thanks for the color.  I may just go for it (in addition to his other works).

Kabelac's 8th symphony is a strange work. I do like the combination of organ and percussion, but for me it is mainly the coloratura soprano part  that mars this composition.
I only know the recording with Jana Jonášová and find listening to her voice quite unpleasant. Possibly another soloist may give a totaly different sound experience.
The work itself is very tense. I can imagine that a live performance in a large space would help to take in the full impact of this very strange and uncommon score.

The symphony was composed after the initial succes of the 8 Inventions for percussion .

Wikipedia:
The 8th Symphony "Antiphonies", Op. 54, by Miloslav Kabeláč was written in 1970 as a reflection of the composer's feelings from the invasion of Warsaw Pact troops into Czechoslovakia in 1968 and the onset of so-called "normalization" process in the society, which means renewal of strong dictate of the regime of pro-Soviet communist rulers, including heavy loss of basic freedoms for citizens of the country.
The composition consists of nine parts – five movements and four interludes, structure of which is controlled by a firm logical order, proportionally and symmetry. Its structural and expressive axis is the third – the longest movement. The intermedia linking the individual movements correspond both in time and music and differ only in an alternately opposite dynamic succession. The work is written for a percussion ensemble (6 musicians), the organ, a coloration(sic) coloratura soprano and two mixed choirs (large and small). The text of the vocal part is taken from the Old testament.
The 8th Symphony was inspired by French ensemble Les Percussions de Strasbourg which presented its premiere with the Czech soloists Jana Jonášová (soprano) and Václav Rabas (organ) in Strasbourg in June 1971.

Description of composition
For this work Kabeláč selected quotations and formulas of a magical and symbolic meaning: Mene, tekel, upharsin – Amen – Hosanna – Hallelujah. The musical language of the Symphony is modal, growing from one of Kabeláč's extraordinary artificial tone-creative principles. The climax of the 3rd movement even suggest a quotation of the Gregorian "Dies irae". The musical expression makes use of elements of exclamation, rhythmic shouts, monotonous and exalted invocations. The basic idea of the work is namely an emphatic warning against the danger of a decline of all positive values of humanity (the historical situation at the time of the origin of the work should be recalled). The suggestive pictures of destruction and suffering alternate at first with apathy. Only later does a beam of hope emerge from the destructive storm and the end of the work suggests the grasping of the hope. It is in fact a positive end, though marred by redeeming suffering.

Most interesting, thanks!

You're welcome!

I listened to some fragments again  - no, that symphony isn't my favorite Kabelac work.

On the Supraphon website https://www.supraphon.com/album/273517-kabelac-symphonies-complete - only very short fragments can be listened to - but the voice of Lucie Silkenová seems to have more "air and space" .

From the Supraphon website:

"Finding an imposing cycle of eight symphonies by a 20th century composer you've never heard of is an event. There's precious little of Miloslav Kabeláč's music presently available on disc, making this release a must-hear. His was a singularly unlucky life: born in 1908, he rose to prominence as a composer in the late 1930s, gaining a senior post at Prague Radio. Having a Jewish wife, Kabeláč resigned from the role soon after the German occupation, his music officially deemed unperformable as a result of his ,,mixed marriage". Post-war, Kabeláč had no intention of appeasing the Czechoslovakian Communist regime and endured a difficult relationship with the state thereafter, his strong religious faith another sticking point. Predictably, these are not easy symphonies to assimilate, with even the few lighter moments tinged with dour melancholy. What's fascinating is how mind-blowingly original much of this music is, doubly so when one considers that Kabeláč would have had little or no access to developments in Western Europe. Things become especially outré from 1960's Symphony No. 5 onwards, written for wordless soprano and large orchestra. This performance has the wonderful Pavla Vykopalová in the solo role, her wilder outbursts anticipating passages in Britten's War Requiem. No. 6 pits solo clarinet against similarly combative tutti forces, and No. 7 has a prominent part for narrator, loudly declaiming Biblical verses in Czech. It genuinely sounds like nothing else you'll have heard. Kabeláć's final Symphony received its first performance in Strasbourg in 1971. Scored for mixed choir, soprano, percussion and organ, this is startling, unsettling music, the clangorous closing pages both ecstatic and terrifying. Poor Kabeláć couldn't get to the premiere, the authorities having denied him a travel permit. The earlier symphonies offer an easier entry point. The tunes don't exactly come thick and fast but the craft is impeccable: Nos. 3 and 4 are both pieces you'll want to return to, the latter's tran­sparent orchestration and busy counterpoint as approachable as Kabeláć gets. I can't recommend this set enough. Don't expect to find it popping up on Classic FM soon, but put in the hours and you'll reap the rewards; Kabeláč's sym­phonies are certainly less oppressive than, say, Hartmann's. Fabulously accomplished performances from Marko Ivanović and the Prague Radio Symphony Orchestra, and excellent sound. Stretch your ears. Buy this box set."
theartsdesk.com, 28th January 2017

Quote from: pjme on July 18, 2017, 07:33:17 AM
You're welcome!

I listened to some fragments again  - no, that symphony isn't my favorite Kabelac work.

On the Supraphon website https://www.supraphon.com/album/273517-kabelac-symphonies-complete - only very short fragments can be listened to - but the voice of Lucie Silkenová seems to have more "air and space" .

From the Supraphon website:

"Finding an imposing cycle of eight symphonies by a 20th century composer you've never heard of is an event. There's precious little of Miloslav Kabeláč's music presently available on disc, making this release a must-hear. His was a singularly unlucky life: born in 1908, he rose to prominence as a composer in the late 1930s, gaining a senior post at Prague Radio. Having a Jewish wife, Kabeláč resigned from the role soon after the German occupation, his music officially deemed unperformable as a result of his ,,mixed marriage". Post-war, Kabeláč had no intention of appeasing the Czechoslovakian Communist regime and endured a difficult relationship with the state thereafter, his strong religious faith another sticking point. Predictably, these are not easy symphonies to assimilate, with even the few lighter moments tinged with dour melancholy. What's fascinating is how mind-blowingly original much of this music is, doubly so when one considers that Kabeláč would have had little or no access to developments in Western Europe. Things become especially outré from 1960's Symphony No. 5 onwards, written for wordless soprano and large orchestra. This performance has the wonderful Pavla Vykopalová in the solo role, her wilder outbursts anticipating passages in Britten's War Requiem. No. 6 pits solo clarinet against similarly combative tutti forces, and No. 7 has a prominent part for narrator, loudly declaiming Biblical verses in Czech. It genuinely sounds like nothing else you'll have heard. Kabeláć's final Symphony received its first performance in Strasbourg in 1971. Scored for mixed choir, soprano, percussion and organ, this is startling, unsettling music, the clangorous closing pages both ecstatic and terrifying. Poor Kabeláć couldn't get to the premiere, the authorities having denied him a travel permit. The earlier symphonies offer an easier entry point. The tunes don't exactly come thick and fast but the craft is impeccable: Nos. 3 and 4 are both pieces you'll want to return to, the latter's tran­sparent orchestration and busy counterpoint as approachable as Kabeláć gets. I can't recommend this set enough. Don't expect to find it popping up on Classic FM soon, but put in the hours and you'll reap the rewards; Kabeláč's sym­phonies are certainly less oppressive than, say, Hartmann's. Fabulously accomplished performances from Marko Ivanović and the Prague Radio Symphony Orchestra, and excellent sound. Stretch your ears. Buy this box set."
theartsdesk.com, 28th January 2017

Sometime this side of August, that box will land.  I am very interested to wade into it!

Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on July 18, 2017, 07:54:44 AMSometime this side of August, that box will land.

(https://i.nahraj.to/f/1M1f.jpg)

Landed here today (actually, I stopped by the record store on my way from work). Now to find some time to give it a thorough listen!

I just got this too. I'm kind of in a lighter and softer mood these days where it comes to orchestra music so it may take some time to get through the whole set but I do have pretty positive impressions of Nos. 5 and 8 from hearing other, less good recordings of them a while back, and those are apparently the two that people dislike the most, so might be fun. >.>

Quote from: amw on July 23, 2017, 02:47:14 AM
I just got this too. I'm kind of in a lighter and softer mood these days where it comes to orchestra music so it may take some time to get through the whole set but I do have pretty positive impressions of Nos. 5 and 8 from hearing other, less good recordings of them a while back, and those are apparently the two that people dislike the most, so might be fun. >.>

I like No.5 very much.

QuoteI'm kind of in a lighter and softer mood these days where it comes to orchestra music so it may take some time to get through the whole set...

I've listened through the first disc (Symphonies 1 & 2) and it reinforced my previous impression of Kabeláč's music: I'm not so fond of his loud, percussion-filled stuff, but the sombre, gloomy parts are where it's at for me.

Symphony No. 1 in D for string orchestra and percussion
Is that you, John Williams? The whole thing reminded me of the original Star Wars and I mean it as a compliment, especially given the year of composition (1941-42). Similar development in the strings, similar orchestral 'colour'. The slow 2nd movement feels like a test run for Mystery of Time – a sentiment that haunts both symphonies. The conclusion is kinda all over the place.

Symphony No. 2 in C for large orchestra
Is that you, the middle section of Mystery? Very similar to what's gonna be perfected later. Speaking of which, the 2nd movement is what the intro to Mystery would sound, had it used a saxophone. Yeah, you've read that right. And the result is brilliant, even though it tracks the same trajectory (brooding – bombast – longing). The sax makes it truly memorable. Final movement starts off with some interesting percussion but later loses my interest, when Kabeláč gets the orchestra marching.

Looking forward to the other discs / symphonies, this is a promising start. The recording itself is almost flawless, very nice instrument separation, although I think the music might have benefited from a larger room.

Well, the Symphonies have arrived!

However, they came the same time as the Weinberg quartets, and I have started down the Weinberg rabbit hole . . . .

Okay, I have listened to the First Symphony, Op.11, and it is a corker!

I am just beginning to discover the music of this most compelling and original composer. I had read much praise for The Mystery of Time here and elsewhere, but had never gotten around to listening to it until last night - and was utterly blown away! My, what a tremendously powerful masterwork! Rising from primordial depths, the music eventually begins a very long, gradual buildup toward a shattering climax which is as grippingly effective as anything in the symphonic output of, say, Nielsen or Shostakovich (perhaps even more so!). It then winds down into a sort of "cosmic" tranquility. I've also been listening to his striking Cello Sonata and 8 Preludes for Piano. I'm highly considering getting the Supraphon set of his eight symphonies, which I'm not yet familiar with.

Quote from: kyjo on October 04, 2018, 07:58:44 PM
I am just beginning to discover the music of this most compelling and original composer. I had read much praise for The Mystery of Time here and elsewhere, but had never gotten around to listening to it until last night - and was utterly blown away! My, what a tremendously powerful masterwork! Rising from primordial depths, the music eventually begins a very long, gradual buildup toward a shattering climax which is as grippingly effective as anything in the symphonic output of, say, Nielsen or Shostakovich (perhaps even more so!). It then winds down into a sort of "cosmic" tranquility. I've also been listening to his striking Cello Sonata and 8 Preludes for Piano. I'm highly considering getting the Supraphon set of his eight symphonies, which I'm not yet familiar with.

The Mystery of Time is a brooding piece indeed, which was recommended by Jeffrey. The 8 symphonies are a safe purchase, as far as I remember they all are compelling (even the most advanced No. 8 ), serious and with a tremendous power.

Quote from: kyjo on October 04, 2018, 07:58:44 PM
I am just beginning to discover the music of this most compelling and original composer. I had read much praise for The Mystery of Time here and elsewhere, but had never gotten around to listening to it until last night - and was utterly blown away! My, what a tremendously powerful masterwork! Rising from primordial depths, the music eventually begins a very long, gradual buildup toward a shattering climax which is as grippingly effective as anything in the symphonic output of, say, Nielsen or Shostakovich (perhaps even more so!). It then winds down into a sort of "cosmic" tranquility. I've also been listening to his striking Cello Sonata and 8 Preludes for Piano. I'm highly considering getting the Supraphon set of his eight symphonies, which I'm not yet familiar with.

I'm delighted that you enjoyed it Kyle. I find the section when the momentum starts to slow down towards the end very moving for some reason. I'm sorry that a new recording of this masterpiece was not included in the recent box set of the Kabelac symphonies. He is certainly a composer of great interest and a man of integrity as he lived through difficult times. It was Colin (Dundonnell) who recommended the work to me although unfortunately he doesn't post here now. I think I had it coupled with my CD of Janacek's 'Glagolitic Mass' but never bothered to play it before the recommendation from Colin.

Quote from: SymphonicAddict on October 04, 2018, 08:40:21 PM
The Mystery of Time is a brooding piece indeed, which was recommended by Jeffrey. The 8 symphonies are a safe purchase, as far as I remember they all are compelling (even the most advanced No. 8 ), serious and with a tremendous power.

Totally agree Cesar. I also like the Kalabis symphonies, also the subject of a recent boxed set from Supraphon and wonder if you know. Symphony 2 'Sinfonia Pacis' is my favourite with its moving bell-like conclusion.

Quote from: kyjo on October 04, 2018, 07:58:44 PM
I am just beginning to discover the music of this most compelling and original composer. I had read much praise for The Mystery of Time here and elsewhere, but had never gotten around to listening to it until last night - and was utterly blown away! My, what a tremendously powerful masterwork! Rising from primordial depths, the music eventually begins a very long, gradual buildup toward a shattering climax which is as grippingly effective as anything in the symphonic output of, say, Nielsen or Shostakovich (perhaps even more so!). It then winds down into a sort of "cosmic" tranquility. I've also been listening to his striking Cello Sonata and 8 Preludes for Piano. I'm highly considering getting the Supraphon set of his eight symphonies, which I'm not yet familiar with.

If this description isn't pure temptation,what is?!! Maybe Xmas........or if I can sell something?!! ::) ;D

Quote from: cilgwyn on October 05, 2018, 12:29:38 AM
If this description isn't pure temptation,what is?!! Maybe Xmas........or if I can sell something?!! ::) ;D

Oh, you have to hear 'Mystery of Time' cilgwyn. Just sell your Gilbert and Sullivan collection on ebay to finance the purchase.
;D

I've posted this before - but here is Hrusa conducting "Mystery of time" in an excellent performance with the Finnish Radio Orchestra.

https://www.youtube.com/v/UgeYpx-azF0

Peter

Quote from: vandermolen on October 05, 2018, 01:08:36 AM
Oh, you have to hear 'Mystery of Time' cilgwyn. Just sell your Gilbert and Sullivan collection on ebay to finance the purchase.
;D

And I've got some rare,deleted,G & S!! It might just cover it?! You're sure you're not interested?!! ;D (You won't be able to get Ko-Ko's 'Little List' song out of your head,for weeks!)

Quote from: cilgwyn on October 05, 2018, 02:08:57 AM
And I've got some rare,deleted,G & S!! It might just cover it?! You're sure you're not interested?!! ;D (You won't be able to get Ko-Ko's 'Little List' song out of your head,for weeks!)

No, count me out of the bidding for your G and S collection please. 8)
Anyways thanks to Peter (pjme) you can listen to the wonderful 'Mystery of Time' above.
Let us know what you think of it.

PS If you want a hard copy Amazon UK has it in the Supraphon, Ancerl Gold Edition for about £7.00 including postage.

Quote from: pjme on October 05, 2018, 01:20:11 AM
I've posted this before - but here is Hrusa conducting "Mystery of time" in an excellent performance with the Finnish Radio Orchestra.

https://www.youtube.com/v/UgeYpx-azF0

Peter

Yes, this is the performance I listened to; a great one indeed. I noted that Jakob Hrůša is programming the work when he comes to conduct the Cleveland Orchestra next month - how exciting! I am seriously tempted to drive up to Cleveland to hear it...

https://www.clevelandorchestra.com/1819-concerts-pdps/1819-tco-classical-series-concerts/week-08/

Quote from: kyjo on October 05, 2018, 06:37:28 AM
Yes, this is the performance I listened to; a great one indeed. I noted that Jakob Hrůša is programming the work when he comes to conduct the Cleveland Orchestra next month - how exciting! I am seriously tempted to drive up to Cleveland to hear it...

https://www.clevelandorchestra.com/1819-concerts-pdps/1819-tco-classical-series-concerts/week-08/

Wow, it would be great to hear Mystery of Time live Kyle.

Quote from: kyjo on October 05, 2018, 06:37:28 AM
Yes, this is the performance I listened to; a great one indeed. I noted that Jakob Hrůša is programming the work when he comes to conduct the Cleveland Orchestra next month - how exciting! I am seriously tempted to drive up to Cleveland to hear it...

https://www.clevelandorchestra.com/1819-concerts-pdps/1819-tco-classical-series-concerts/week-08/

Do it.  I will never forgive you if you don't. 

Quote from: kyjo on October 05, 2018, 06:37:28 AM
Yes, this is the performance I listened to; a great one indeed. I noted that Jakob Hrůša is programming the work when he comes to conduct the Cleveland Orchestra next month - how exciting! I am seriously tempted to drive up to Cleveland to hear it...

https://www.clevelandorchestra.com/1819-concerts-pdps/1819-tco-classical-series-concerts/week-08/

Looks like an interesting concert with the Shostakovich as well Kyle.

I also note that relm 1's post was No. '666' ( >:D) so you'll clearly have to take his views seriously.
8)

Quote from: pjme on October 05, 2018, 01:20:11 AM
I've posted this before - but here is Hrusa conducting "Mystery of time" in an excellent performance with the Finnish Radio Orchestra.

https://www.youtube.com/v/UgeYpx-azF0

Peter

Hrůša will conduct it again on December 14 at the Philharmonie, Berlin - with the BP, of course. I suppose it will be available in some form on the internet.


https://www.digitalconcerthall.com/en/live (https://www.digitalconcerthall.com/en/live)

Quote from: André on June 30, 2019, 04:09:34 AM
Hrůša Will conduct it again on December 14 at the Philharmonie, Berlin - with the BP, of course. I suppose it will be available in some form on the internet.


https://www.digitalconcerthall.com/en/live (https://www.digitalconcerthall.com/en/live)

Very nice to observe a live performance of that fabulous work.

!!! NEW MYSTERY OF TIME !!!

(https://b2b.naxosusa.com/Images/LoRes/BackCovers/099925431228.jpg) (https://b2b.naxosusa.com/Images/BackCovers/099925431228.pt01.jpg)

Quote from: Brian on August 03, 2022, 05:18:17 PM
!!! NEW MYSTERY OF TIME !!!

(https://b2b.naxosusa.com/Images/LoRes/BackCovers/099925431228.jpg) (https://b2b.naxosusa.com/Images/BackCovers/099925431228.pt01.jpg)

Oh Wow!!!!
And about time too.
Can we have a new Novak's 'The Storm' as well please?
;D

Quote from: Brian on August 03, 2022, 05:18:17 PM
!!! NEW MYSTERY OF TIME !!!

(https://b2b.naxosusa.com/Images/LoRes/BackCovers/099925431228.jpg) (https://b2b.naxosusa.com/Images/BackCovers/099925431228.pt01.jpg)

This is indeed excellent news. The whole cd is well programmed!
Thanks for the information.
Peter

Quote from: Brian on August 03, 2022, 05:18:17 PM
!!! NEW MYSTERY OF TIME !!!

(https://b2b.naxosusa.com/Images/LoRes/BackCovers/099925431228.jpg) (https://b2b.naxosusa.com/Images/BackCovers/099925431228.pt01.jpg)

Interesting that based on the composer's lifespan on the album, these works were all written after his death...truly an example of the mystery of time.

Quote from: relm1 on August 04, 2022, 05:45:59 AM
Interesting that based on the composer's lifespan on the album, these works were all written after his death...truly an example of the mystery of time.

;D ;D ;D ;D

Those happen to be Prokofiev's lifespan dates...

b e y o n d   t h e   g r a v e

Quote from: relm1 on August 04, 2022, 05:45:59 AM
Interesting that based on the composer's lifespan on the album, these works were all written after his death...truly an example of the mystery of time.

Quote from: relm1 on August 04, 2022, 05:45:59 AM
Interesting that based on the composer's lifespan on the album, these works were all written after his death...truly an example of the mystery of time.

Hopefully, they will fix the dates before the CD is released.  When is it due out?

PD

Quote from: Pohjolas Daughter on August 06, 2022, 01:41:39 AM
Hopefully, they will fix the dates before the CD is released.  When is it due out?

PD

October!

I once saw a pre-order image of a disc where all the track times said 00:00 ... they definitely fixed that one.  ;D

Quote from: Brian on August 03, 2022, 05:18:17 PM
!!! NEW MYSTERY OF TIME !!!

(https://b2b.naxosusa.com/Images/LoRes/BackCovers/099925431228.jpg) (https://b2b.naxosusa.com/Images/BackCovers/099925431228.pt01.jpg)

Fantastic news, Brian!! This magnificent work was crying out for a new commercial recording.

https://youtube.com/v/D73irBibw7E

Ivanovic and Czech students....

https://www.youtube.com/v/jwR4TZi2REw

Mystery of time, in 2016 as a ballet. 

It is really good to see that this new Kabelac cd will soon be available.

But listening to fragments on YT, I notice that Ivanovic seems to take a softer (and slower) approach than Ancerl.

https://www.youtube.com/v/qw9FfphfGushttps://www.youtube.com/v/FQovEnZKMio

I'll wait for the cd to arrive and compare more carefully later. What may be lost in bite and power may be won in orchestral detail...?

Idem for the Reflections, a work I dearly love - 9 short sketches full of "angst" -, even terror....

I think there is a YouTube "Mystery of Time" led by Jakub Hrusa that stretches out to 28 minutes. It kind of feeds into my theory/gripe that conductors today in general lead slower interpretations than conductors of 60+ years ago.

Quote from: Brian on August 03, 2022, 05:18:17 PM
!!! NEW MYSTERY OF TIME !!!

(https://b2b.naxosusa.com/Images/LoRes/BackCovers/099925431228.jpg) (https://b2b.naxosusa.com/Images/BackCovers/099925431228.pt01.jpg)

I listened to this just now and very much enjoyed it.  Atmospheric and finely crafted music, an excellent release well worth hearing!

Quick question to allay my ignorance...

Kabelak?

Or

Kabelatch?

Quote from: foxandpeng on July 17, 2024, 08:14:09 AMQuick question to allay my ignorance...

Kabelak?

Or

Kabelatch?

As in relm 1's post. Mystery of Time is his masterpiece.

Quote from: vandermolen on July 17, 2024, 08:58:55 AMAs in relm 1's post. Mystery of Time is his masterpiece.

Hm. Can't see that one. No matter.

I've just read back through the posts, and Mystery of Time appears to be the essential piece to hear  ;D

I look forward to getting there after making my way through the symphonies!

č = tch sound! Think of it as a Czech version of the common Slavic -ch ending to names (Shostakovich, etc.).

Just listened to Mystery of Time from the OP - the YouTube video is still up there. I can see both sides of the discussion between Colin and Johan early on in the thread. The "sepulchral" opening is a bit "samey" and I was, for a while, about to give up on the work. But even early on there were interesting details, interactions between the voices that drove the narrative and held my interest - barely.

But as the music built to its amazingly violent climax I began to better understand the musical language. I suspect it's better not to think too seriously about the Passacaglia form here, as the original theme quickly becomes completely lost to the ear in the chaos. (Not to say that it isn't a strict passacaglia, but that fact becomes inaudible after a while.)

As to the musical language, I was actually reminded in some ways of Pettersson, especially in the building up of long paragraphs using ostinati and repeated figures that interact with each other and gradually evolve.

Anyway, colour me impressed. I had not heard of this composer previously.

Quote from: krummholz on July 17, 2024, 10:14:39 AMJust listened to Mystery of Time from the OP - the YouTube video is still up there. I can see both sides of the discussion between Colin and Johan early on in the thread. The "sepulchral" opening is a bit "samey" and I was, for a while, about to give up on the work. But even early on there were interesting details, interactions between the voices that drove the narrative and held my interest - barely.

But as the music built to its amazingly violent climax I began to better understand the musical language. I suspect it's better not to think too seriously about the Passacaglia form here, as the original theme quickly becomes completely lost to the ear in the chaos. (Not to say that it isn't a strict passacaglia, but that fact becomes inaudible after a while.)

As to the musical language, I was actually reminded in some ways of Pettersson, especially in the building up of long paragraphs using ostinati and repeated figures that interact with each other and gradually evolve.

Anyway, colour me impressed. I had not heard of this composer previously.

I haven't listened to that recording, but have listened to a recent one--which I enjoyed.  I'd love to get a hold of a copy of it.

PD

I was a tad underwhelmed by Mystery of Time when I first heard it. I was hoping for a larger orchestra with prominent percussion as such a large-scale work of that period would imply.

Quote from: foxandpeng on July 17, 2024, 09:27:56 AMHm. Can't see that one. No matter.

I've just read back through the posts, and Mystery of Time appears to be the essential piece to hear  ;D

I look forward to getting there after making my way through the symphonies!

I think it's spelt Kabelac (with accents). I'd go for Mystery of Time before the symphonies.

Quote from: Brian on July 17, 2024, 09:43:05 AMč = tch sound! Think of it as a Czech version of the common Slavic -ch ending to names (Shostakovich, etc.).

Ah, thank you! I think I lacked clarity that my question was about pronunciation 🫣. I'm a dope.

Quote from: vandermolen on July 17, 2024, 01:01:47 PMI think it's spelt Kabelac (with accents). I'd go for Mystery of Time before the symphonies.

Mystery of Time is next, I think. I did listen to the first movement of #5, earlier, but was less impressed than I have been with the first 4 symphonies. Only the first movement, but wordless sopranos don't do a great deal for me...

Just listened to Mystery of Time again. I'm actually not certain what the basic passacaglia theme even is in the work, it seems to be mainly based on intervals (minor second and minor third mainly, it seems) that are combined both linearly and vertically. And those intervals don't even appear until one note (Eb it sounds like to me, but I don't have the score) has been heard throughout the orchestra spanning the octaves.

Expressively and in the way Kabelac uses the orchestra, I was reminded more this time of the Shostakovich 10th, 2nd movement. Imagine that movement stretched from 4 minutes to about 18, and framed with several minutes of quiet, meditative music on either side. The use of the orchestra is very Shostakovich-like (or perhaps Mussorgsky-like).

My only complaint with that video is the 1950s recording quality. A recording with modern digital dynamic range should be really overwhelming.

I like the magnificent Mystery of Time quite a bit better than any of his symphonies that I've heard. I recall No. 5 (the one with the wordless soprano) being quite good, but I've been disappointed with some of the others. Another work of his I rate highly is the earlyish Cello Sonata with its wonderfully imposing first movement Passacaglia. 

To be released on 5 September:

(https://d1iiivw74516uk.cloudfront.net/eyJidWNrZXQiOiJwcmVzdG8tY292ZXItaW1hZ2VzIiwia2V5IjoiOTc3NDI2OS4xLmpwZyIsImVkaXRzIjp7InJlc2l6ZSI6eyJ3aWR0aCI6OTAwfSwid2VicCI6eyJxdWFsaXR5Ijo2NX0sInRvRm9ybWF0Ijoid2VicCJ9LCJ0aW1lc3RhbXAiOjE3NDU4NTAyNzl9)

Will this be the first release of another complete cycle of his symphonies?

I didn't know that Kabelac had composed overtures. Looking forward to this recording.

More info here (https://www.prestomusic.com/classical/products/9774269--miloslav-kabela-symphony-no-2-overtures).

Quote from: Symphonic Addict on April 30, 2025, 03:46:23 PMTo be released on 5 September:

(https://d1iiivw74516uk.cloudfront.net/eyJidWNrZXQiOiJwcmVzdG8tY292ZXItaW1hZ2VzIiwia2V5IjoiOTc3NDI2OS4xLmpwZyIsImVkaXRzIjp7InJlc2l6ZSI6eyJ3aWR0aCI6OTAwfSwid2VicCI6eyJxdWFsaXR5Ijo2NX0sInRvRm9ybWF0Ijoid2VicCJ9LCJ0aW1lc3RhbXAiOjE3NDU4NTAyNzl9)

Will this be the first release of another complete cycle of his symphonies?

I didn't know that Kabelac had composed overtures. Looking forward to this recording.

More info here (https://www.prestomusic.com/classical/products/9774269--miloslav-kabela-symphony-no-2-overtures).

I'm still crossing my fingers for a Martinů Hrůša symphony cycle, especially since he's the current president of the International Martinů Circle. Interesting that he's turned his attention to Kabeláč, though.

Quote from: Symphonic Addict on April 30, 2025, 03:46:23 PMTo be released on 5 September:

(https://d1iiivw74516uk.cloudfront.net/eyJidWNrZXQiOiJwcmVzdG8tY292ZXItaW1hZ2VzIiwia2V5IjoiOTc3NDI2OS4xLmpwZyIsImVkaXRzIjp7InJlc2l6ZSI6eyJ3aWR0aCI6OTAwfSwid2VicCI6eyJxdWFsaXR5Ijo2NX0sInRvRm9ybWF0Ijoid2VicCJ9LCJ0aW1lc3RhbXAiOjE3NDU4NTAyNzl9)

Will this be the first release of another complete cycle of his symphonies?

I didn't know that Kabelac had composed overtures. Looking forward to this recording.

More info here (https://www.prestomusic.com/classical/products/9774269--miloslav-kabela-symphony-no-2-overtures).

Quote from: Symphonic Addict on April 30, 2025, 03:46:23 PMTo be released on 5 September:

(https://d1iiivw74516uk.cloudfront.net/eyJidWNrZXQiOiJwcmVzdG8tY292ZXItaW1hZ2VzIiwia2V5IjoiOTc3NDI2OS4xLmpwZyIsImVkaXRzIjp7InJlc2l6ZSI6eyJ3aWR0aCI6OTAwfSwid2VicCI6eyJxdWFsaXR5Ijo2NX0sInRvRm9ybWF0Ijoid2VicCJ9LCJ0aW1lc3RhbXAiOjE3NDU4NTAyNzl9)

Will this be the first release of another complete cycle of his symphonies?

I didn't know that Kabelac had composed overtures. Looking forward to this recording.

More info here (https://www.prestomusic.com/classical/products/9774269--miloslav-kabela-symphony-no-2-overtures).

Most interesting Cesar! Thanks for posting it.

Recently had a first listen to his Symphony No. 1 for Strings and Percussion:

(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/71IWI38BE1L._SX425_.jpg)

Man, this is unremittingly serious, intense stuff! Composed in 1941-42, its decidedly anxiety-ridden tone should be rather unsurprising, I suppose. I found it mostly very effective, especially in its imaginative use of percussion (there's some healthy "swats" on the tam-tam, as Hurwitz would say). I couldn't help but wish that Kabeláč would lighten up just a bit every once in a while - there aren't even any Shostakovichian ironics or Petterssonian lyrical "islands" - but he does allow for a sense of just barely conquered struggle in the exciting D major coda. This is most definitely Danny's (foxandpeng) type of music! ;) I intend to explore/revisit the rest of his symphonic cycle (the only one's I've heard in the past are Nos. 4 and 5), but this is music I need to be in the right mood for!

Quote from: kyjo on June 28, 2025, 07:46:52 AMRecently had a first listen to his Symphony No. 1 for Strings and Percussion:

(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/71IWI38BE1L._SX425_.jpg)

Man, this is unremittingly serious, intense stuff! Composed in 1941-42, its decidedly anxiety-ridden tone should be rather unsurprising, I suppose. I found it mostly very effective, especially in its imaginative use of percussion (there's some healthy "swats" on the tam-tam, as Hurwitz would say). I couldn't help but wish that Kabeláč would lighten up just a bit every once in a while - there aren't even any Shostakovichian ironics or Petterssonian lyrical "islands" - but he does allow for a sense of just barely conquered struggle in the exciting D major coda. This is most definitely Danny's (foxandpeng) type of music! ;) I intend to explore/revisit the rest of his symphonic cycle (the only one's I've heard in the past are Nos. 4 and 5), but this is music I need to be in the right mood for!

I can't say the Kabeláč symphonies have taken ahold of me, but they are interesting works and form a unique symphonic cycle. I definitely prefer Martinů if we're talking about 20th Century Czech symphonists.

Quote from: Der lächelnde Schatten on June 28, 2025, 07:58:04 AMI can't say the Kabeláč symphonies have taken ahold of me, but they are interesting works and form a unique symphonic cycle. I definitely prefer Martinů if we're talking about 20th Century Czech symphonists.

Me too although Mystery of Time is a masterpiece IMO.

Quote from: vandermolen on June 28, 2025, 08:21:44 AMMe too although Mystery of Time is a masterpiece IMO.

Totally agree - it is that monolithic work, as well as his powerful early Cello Sonata, that remain the works of his that have impressed me most.

Quote from: kyjo on June 28, 2025, 12:29:55 PMTotally agree - it is that monolithic work, as well as his powerful early Cello Sonata, that remain the works of his that have impressed me most.

Have just ordered this Kyle - all your fault  ;D

I knew, years ago, some American relatives of the composer.  They could not have cared less about their illustrious forebear and even less about classical music.  I esp. like his Symphony #8, Antiphonies.  Last year, Capriccio released his Complete Chamber Music which I covet but still haven't sprung for.

Concerning Kabelac's Symphonies 1 and 8:







From the notes on YouTube for the Eighth Symphony:

Quote

...The basic idea of the work is namely an emphatic warning against the danger of a decline of all positive values of humanity (the historical situation at the time of the origin of the work should be recalled (i.e. the failure of the Prague Spring in 1968 under Alexander Dubcek and the continuation of the oppressive Communist state with the help of Russian tanks and thousands of troops from the Warsaw Pact. - Cato)). The suggestive pictures of destruction and suffering alternate at first with apathy. Only later does a beam of hope emerge from the destructive storm and the end of the work suggests the grasping of the hope. It is in fact a positive end, though marred by redeeming suffering.

Quote from: Cato on June 29, 2025, 01:24:02 PMConcerning Kabelac's Symphonies 1 and 8:

From the notes on YouTube for the Eighth Symphony:

So, topical, in another word. Thanks, Cato.

https://miloslav-kabelac.com/en/works

Overture No. 1 for Orchestra, op.6, N6 (1939)
3 (3. anche picc.), 2, 2 in B (1. anche fag. in F; 2. anche cl. in B), 3 (3. anche fag. in F) - 4, 4 - 3, pos. - 1 tb - 1 pk, 6 sz - archi: vn I (14), vn II (12), vle (10), vcl (8), cb (6)
Duration approx. 9'

Overture No. 2 for Large Orchestra, op.17, N17 (1947)
3 (3. anche picc.), 2, 2 in B (1. anche fag. in F; 2. anche cl. in B), 3 (3. anche fag. in F) - 4, 3 - 3, pos. - 1 tb - 1 pk, 6 sz - archi: vn I (14), vn II (12), vle (10), vcl (8), cb (6)
Duration approx. 8'40''

I look forward to hear these works. There isn't really that much symphonic music in Kabelac output , apart from the symphonies, Mystery of time, Hamlet improvisation, the Reflections and Metamorphosis 2 (piano & orchestra). His opus 1 is a Fantasy for piano and orchestra.
There is a quite large amount of works for children/childrens choruses with or without orchestra.! I wonder how these works sound. 
Many years ago I found in Prague a 1997 Vltava cd with some really beautiful works for choir by Jaroslav Doubrava, Ilja Hurnik, Zdenek Lukas, Milan Jira and a short work by Kabelac, Milostna (1962) for male chorus and (small) orchestra. I find it extremely touching. It is totally different from the forbidding, grim world of the large orchestral works. Milostna is almost pastoral and ends with a ravishing hymn-like cantilena. 


«I am convinced that had he lived in an environment of artistic freedom, he would have become a major international composer — not just a regional one.»
— Jakub Hrůša, conductor

His music makes me often very sad...

A big fan of his symphonies here. Perhaps the only one that didn't impress much me the last time I heard them all was the 5th with soprano. I think it gets a bit irritating and repetitive at the end. Even though I severely dislike narration in music, the 7th featuring a speaker is really gripping and much more modernistic than the previous six. The 8th is his more experimental one and it sounds like a dark, dramatic ritual. Pretty impressive stuff to say the least. Another interesting detail is that each symphony is for very different forces, there are no two equal ones.

I like the Cello Sonata recommended by Kyle (Kyjo)

The Mystery of Time is a masterpiece -- indeed that was the inspiration for my own 13th symphony. I briefly tried the odd symphony but couldn't find find anything of quite the same quality -- perhaps someone could recommend one which perhaps has something of a similar atmosphere?

Quote from: Symphonic Addict on July 05, 2025, 07:06:51 PMA big fan of his symphonies here. Perhaps the only one that didn't impress much me the last time I heard them all was the 5th with soprano. I think it gets a bit irritating and repetitive at the end. Even though I severely dislike narration in music, the 7th featuring a speaker is really gripping and much more modernistic than the previous six. The 8th is his more experimental one and it sounds like a dark, dramatic ritual. Pretty impressive stuff to say the least. Another interesting detail is that each symphony is for very different forces, there are no two equal ones.

This.