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The Music Room => General Classical Music Discussion => Topic started by: snyprrr on April 09, 2012, 07:06:01 AM

Title: Recommend Me Some 20th Century 'Pastoral' Symphonies
Post by: snyprrr on April 09, 2012, 07:06:01 AM
I'm going on from Honegger's 4th, Milhaud's 1-2,... I just NEED something lazy, summery,...mm...I don't know, the Milhaud are pretty nap inducing,... perhaps summer nap Symphonies? Some of the Segerstam samples I've heard make for nice nap music, but I don't know if there're violent outbursts or not (don't think so, but...).

I don't want to call Gorescki's 3rd 'pastoral', but, perhaps a 'happy' Gorecki 3rd might be what I'm looking for?... just something 'smooth', something of country fields in the summer...
Title: Re: Recommend Me Some 20th Century 'Pastoral' Symphonies
Post by: Sergeant Rock on April 09, 2012, 07:24:58 AM
Frederick Delius, Symphony #3 A major "The Cowpat"

Sarge
Title: Re: Recommend Me Some 20th Century 'Pastoral' Symphonies
Post by: KeithW on April 09, 2012, 08:10:14 AM
Vaughan Williams Symphony No. 3?
Title: Re: Recommend Me Some 20th Century 'Pastoral' Symphonies
Post by: pjme on April 09, 2012, 12:17:27 PM
Laszlo Lajtha: Symphony nr . 4: Le printemps - lovely. A Hungarian pastoral "à la française"

Erkki Melartin: Symphony nr 4: Summer
The slow movement of nr. 4 ( 3 female voices in "vocalise") is just exquisite.

Symphony No. 4, Summer Symphony (1912): This was the favorite with concert audiences in Melartin's own day, and perhaps still is the favorite with listeners. A gem-like the second movement, Scherzo (Vivace), tells why. Play this movement if you want to make someone a fan of Melartin. It is an exuberant distillation of at least one aspect of the northern summer, like sunlight made audible. To my mind the third movement adds an element of wistfulness (the northerners' consciousness that winter is coming?) before a soloist and then three female voices together enter the work.

Raihala's essay for Finnish Music Quarterly magazine says the "Summer Hymn" that helps anchor the symphony is actually a melody of Swedish origin, though familiar to all Finns. It helps make this symphony a beautiful product of National Romanticism. If you like the voices in the second movement of Carl Nielsen's Symphony No. 3, you'll love the singing in Melartin's No. 4, which seems to me similar in spirit. This may be one of his most visual works. At least the Finnish composer Leevi Madetoja, in his review of the Melartin Symphony No. 4, focused on the visual qualities of the music: "Seldom has the summer nature, its limpid, delicate landscapes, the hushed piety of the white summer night been described with such delightful and confident strokes of the brush."

-- Lance Nixon, MusicWeb International

A glorious summer's day in Croatia: Sunny fields by Blagoje Bersa, not a symphony but a symphonic poem where Mahler, Strauss and Respighi come together in a stunning evocation of a sundrenched landscape (anno 1919).

Arthur Meulemans: May night . Flemish impressionism at its best.
P.

Title: Re: Recommend Me Some 20th Century 'Pastoral' Symphonies
Post by: Lethevich on April 09, 2012, 04:01:06 PM
Tournemire - Symphony No.5
Title: Re: Recommend Me Some 20th Century 'Pastoral' Symphonies
Post by: eyeresist on April 09, 2012, 05:49:46 PM
Quote from: KeithW on April 09, 2012, 08:10:14 AMVaughan Williams Symphony No. 3?

And 5, of course.
Title: Re: Recommend Me Some 20th Century 'Pastoral' Symphonies
Post by: snyprrr on April 09, 2012, 06:01:31 PM
Quote from: pjme on April 09, 2012, 12:17:27 PM
Laszlo Lajtha: Symphony nr . 4: Le printemps - lovely. A Hungarian pastoral "à la française"

Erkki Melartin: Symphony nr 4: Summer
The slow movement of nr. 4 ( 3 female voices in "vocalise") is just exquisite.

Symphony No. 4, Summer Symphony (1912): This was the favorite with concert audiences in Melartin's own day, and perhaps still is the favorite with listeners. A gem-like the second movement, Scherzo (Vivace), tells why. Play this movement if you want to make someone a fan of Melartin. It is an exuberant distillation of at least one aspect of the northern summer, like sunlight made audible. To my mind the third movement adds an element of wistfulness (the northerners' consciousness that winter is coming?) before a soloist and then three female voices together enter the work.

Raihala's essay for Finnish Music Quarterly magazine says the "Summer Hymn" that helps anchor the symphony is actually a melody of Swedish origin, though familiar to all Finns. It helps make this symphony a beautiful product of National Romanticism. If you like the voices in the second movement of Carl Nielsen's Symphony No. 3, you'll love the singing in Melartin's No. 4, which seems to me similar in spirit. This may be one of his most visual works. At least the Finnish composer Leevi Madetoja, in his review of the Melartin Symphony No. 4, focused on the visual qualities of the music: "Seldom has the summer nature, its limpid, delicate landscapes, the hushed piety of the white summer night been described with such delightful and confident strokes of the brush."

-- Lance Nixon, MusicWeb International

A glorious summer's day in Croatia: Sunny fields by Blagoje Bersa, not a symphony but a symphonic poem where Mahler, Strauss and Respighi come together in a stunning evocation of a sundrenched landscape (anno 1919).

Arthur Meulemans: May night . Flemish impressionism at its best.
P.

What about Nielsen's 6th?


Quote from: eyeresist on April 09, 2012, 05:49:46 PM
And 5, of course.

I was going to exclude that as being too 'Epic', haha!!
Title: Re: Recommend Me Some 20th Century 'Pastoral' Symphonies
Post by: snyprrr on April 09, 2012, 06:04:19 PM
Quote from: Sergeant Rock on April 09, 2012, 07:24:58 AM
Frederick Delius, Symphony #3 A major "The Cowpat"

Sarge

Haha, I probably should recoup some Delius,... you might have hit on it! Perhaps I just didn't want to Thread the word 'Impressionism', but, that IS what I crave here, isn't it? Seriously 'subjective' Impressionism, haha,... I remember a previous Thread of Discontent, haha...


Title: Re: Recommend Me Some 20th Century 'Pastoral' Symphonies
Post by: Coco on April 09, 2012, 08:47:06 PM
Tubin's 4th
Title: Re: Recommend Me Some 20th Century 'Pastoral' Symphonies
Post by: Christo on April 09, 2012, 09:45:39 PM
Tubin 4
Braga Santos 1, 2, 3, 4, 6
Holmboe 3
Madetoja 2, 3
Nielsen 3
Hurun 1
Vaughan Williams 3, 5
Moeran 1
Rawsthorne 2
Lilburn 1, 2
Honegger 4
Röntgen 8
Raid 1
Meulemans 8
&c.




Title: Re: Recommend Me Some 20th Century 'Pastoral' Symphonies
Post by: snyprrr on April 10, 2012, 05:58:29 AM
Quote from: Christo on April 09, 2012, 09:45:39 PM
Tubin 4
Braga Santos 1, 2, 3, 4, 6
Holmboe 3
Madetoja 2, 3
Nielsen 3
Hurun 1
Vaughan Williams 3, 5
Moeran 1
Rawsthorne 2
Lilburn 1, 2
Honegger 4
Röntgen 8
Raid 1
Meulemans 8
&c.

Ah, thanks! ;)
Title: Re: Recommend Me Some 20th Century 'Pastoral' Symphonies
Post by: Sergeant Rock on April 10, 2012, 06:03:30 AM
Quote from: snyprrr on April 09, 2012, 06:04:19 PM
Haha, I probably should recoup some Delius,...

That seems to be the kind of music you're looking for. Delius (unlike most of the symphonies suggested in this thread) maintains a mood for the length of the work. Try his On Stepping on the First Cowpat in Spring....I think that was the title  :)

Sarge
Title: Re: Recommend Me Some 20th Century 'Pastoral' Symphonies
Post by: Karl Henning on April 10, 2012, 06:08:28 AM
His scoring is the most realistic squish you'll ever hear!
Title: Re: Recommend Me Some 20th Century 'Pastoral' Symphonies
Post by: Opus106 on April 10, 2012, 06:38:41 AM
Quote from: Sergeant Rock on April 10, 2012, 06:03:30 AM
[Delius] maintains a mood for the length of the work.

Sarge

I was thinking along those lines yesterday. The suggested works by Delius of this 'mood' perhaps all last around 10-20 minutes or less. Could a composer really maintain the same mood (in various shades, let's say) for the length of a symphony? (Labelling your 10-minute piece a symphony is, of course, cheating.  $:))
Title: Re: Recommend Me Some 20th Century 'Pastoral' Symphonies
Post by: Mirror Image on April 10, 2012, 06:48:21 AM
Quote from: Opus106 on April 10, 2012, 06:38:41 AM
I was thinking along those lines yesterday. The suggested works by Delius of this 'mood' perhaps all last around 10-20 minutes or less. Could a composer really maintain the same mood (in various shades, let's say) for the length of a symphony? (Labelling your 10-minute piece a symphony is, of course, cheating.  $:))

The closest thing Delius came to composing a symphony was A Song of the High Hills. If you don't know it, do become acquinted with it. Lovely work.
Title: Re: Recommend Me Some 20th Century 'Pastoral' Symphonies
Post by: Opus106 on April 10, 2012, 06:49:59 AM
Quote from: Mirror Image on April 10, 2012, 06:48:21 AM
The closest thing Delius came to composing a symphony was A Song of the High Hills. If you don't know it, do become acquinted with it. Lovely work.

Thanks. :)
Title: Re: Recommend Me Some 20th Century 'Pastoral' Symphonies
Post by: Christo on April 10, 2012, 07:48:38 AM
Quote from: Sergeant Rock on April 10, 2012, 06:03:30 AM
Try his On Stepping on the First Cowpat in Spring....I think that was the title  :)

Summer Night on the Bare Cowpat. The Walk to the Cowpat Paradise.  :-X
Title: Re: Recommend Me Some 20th Century 'Pastoral' Symphonies
Post by: Sergeant Rock on April 10, 2012, 08:05:03 AM
Quote from: Christo on April 10, 2012, 07:48:38 AM
Summer Night on the Bare Cowpat. The Walk to the Cowpat Paradise.  :-X

North Cowpat Sketches.

Over the Cowpat and Far Away.

He wrote a million of 'em  :D

Sarge
Title: Re: Recommend Me Some 20th Century 'Pastoral' Symphonies
Post by: Karl Henning on April 10, 2012, 08:08:19 AM
A Mass of Cowpat
Title: Re: Recommend Me Some 20th Century 'Pastoral' Symphonies
Post by: vandermolen on April 10, 2012, 08:08:32 AM
Quote from: Christo on April 09, 2012, 09:45:39 PM
Tubin 4
Braga Santos 1, 2, 3, 4, 6
Holmboe 3
Madetoja 2, 3
Nielsen 3
Hurun 1
Vaughan Williams 3, 5
Moeran 1
Rawsthorne 2
Lilburn 1, 2
Honegger 4
Röntgen 8
Raid 1
Meulemans 8
&c.

Like all these + Armstrong Gibbs: Symphony 3 'Westmorland', Crossley-Holland: Symphony, Rubbra: Symphony 5: Bax: Symphony 3 (wonderful end section), Ives: Symphony 3, Sibelius: Symphony 6, Miaskovsky Symphony 5, Moyzes: Symphony 7, Nystroem: Sinfonia Del Mare.
Title: Re: Recommend Me Some 20th Century 'Pastoral' Symphonies
Post by: Sergeant Rock on April 10, 2012, 08:10:37 AM
Quote from: karlhenning on April 10, 2012, 08:08:19 AM
A Mass of Cowpat

Oh yes. Perhaps my favorite Delius work  :D

Sarge
Title: Re: Recommend Me Some 20th Century 'Pastoral' Symphonies
Post by: Christo on April 10, 2012, 08:44:46 AM
Not mine. He made a holy mess of it.  :-X
Title: Re: Recommend Me Some 20th Century 'Pastoral' Symphonies
Post by: Lethevich on April 10, 2012, 08:48:25 AM
The piece stinks, just accept it.
Title: Re: Recommend Me Some 20th Century 'Pastoral' Symphonies
Post by: vandermolen on April 10, 2012, 09:32:31 AM
Glazunov: Symphony 7

Note, I am not lowering myself by entering the Delius 'cowpat' distraction, which is just a load of old cr_p.  ;D
Title: Re: Recommend Me Some 20th Century 'Pastoral' Symphonies
Post by: DieNacht on April 10, 2012, 11:04:46 AM
pjme and christo mentioned a lot of what I thought of maybe replying, but a few more works a bit in the same vein: Holmboe´s 1st Symphony, Kodaly´s "Summer Evening" and V-W´s "Norfolk Rhapsodies" plus D´Indy´s "Jour d´Ete" (1905).
Title: Re: Recommend Me Some 20th Century 'Pastoral' Symphonies
Post by: Lethevich on April 10, 2012, 11:23:32 AM
Most of these recs are far too gripping to meet the thread's initial posted criterion :o
Title: Re: Recommend Me Some 20th Century 'Pastoral' Symphonies
Post by: knight66 on April 10, 2012, 12:01:11 PM
Quote from: karlhenning on April 10, 2012, 08:08:19 AM
A Mass of Cowpat

How true, how true.

Mike
Title: Re: Recommend Me Some 20th Century 'Pastoral' Symphonies
Post by: Papy Oli on April 10, 2012, 12:06:44 PM
Quote from: vandermolen on April 10, 2012, 09:32:31 AM
Note, I am not lowering myself by entering the Delius 'cowpat' distraction, which is just a load of old cr_p.  ;D

the moo, the merrier though...



*already gone*
Title: Re: Recommend Me Some 20th Century 'Pastoral' Symphonies
Post by: knight66 on April 10, 2012, 12:55:55 PM
 Paris: the song of a great cowpat.

Mike
Title: Re: Recommend Me Some 20th Century 'Pastoral' Symphonies
Post by: snyprrr on April 11, 2012, 07:14:35 AM
Quote from: Lethevich on April 10, 2012, 11:23:32 AM
Most of these recs are far too gripping to meet the thread's initial posted criterion :o

Morton Feldman: For Cowpat

:P
Title: Re: Recommend Me Some 20th Century 'Pastoral' Symphonies
Post by: Karl Henning on April 11, 2012, 07:16:12 AM
The Cowpat in My Life

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk 2
Title: Re: Recommend Me Some 20th Century 'Pastoral' Symphonies
Post by: DieNacht on April 11, 2012, 09:46:15 AM
The Cowpat Chapel.

Satie: Musique d´Ameublement de Bouse de Vache 

Title: Re: Recommend Me Some 20th Century 'Pastoral' Symphonies
Post by: chasmaniac on April 11, 2012, 09:48:59 AM
Five Cowpats.
Title: Re: Recommend Me Some 20th Century 'Pastoral' Symphonies
Post by: chasmaniac on April 11, 2012, 10:00:03 AM
Almost forgot: Why Cowpats?
Title: Re: Recommend Me Some 20th Century 'Pastoral' Symphonies
Post by: Karl Henning on April 11, 2012, 10:03:23 AM
Good!
Title: Re: Recommend Me Some 20th Century 'Pastoral' Symphonies
Post by: listener on April 11, 2012, 12:29:28 PM
returning to the OP with a couple of suites:
LARSSON Pastoral Suite op. 40    de FRUMERIE Pastoral Suite for flute and orch. op. 18b
Title: Re: Recommend Me Some 20th Century 'Pastoral' Symphonies
Post by: J.Z. Herrenberg on April 12, 2012, 12:43:19 AM
Poor Delius.


:'( ;D
Title: Re: Recommend Me Some 20th Century 'Pastoral' Symphonies
Post by: Sergeant Rock on April 12, 2012, 03:02:56 AM
Quote from: chasmaniac on April 11, 2012, 10:00:03 AM
Almost forgot: Why Cowpats?

It's a reference to comments made by composers against Vaughan Williams Pastoral Symphony and similar music. It was either  Peter Warlock or Constant Lambert who said the Pastoral Symphony is like a cow staring over a fence. Copland thought VW's Fifth was like staring at a cow for 45 minutes. And Elisabeth Lutyens called English pastoral music "cow-pat music."

Sarge
Title: Re: Recommend Me Some 20th Century 'Pastoral' Symphonies
Post by: Karl Henning on April 12, 2012, 03:16:42 AM
Sarge, that was the beautiful ambiguity of the post! It is also a play in the running game, an allusion to Feldman's Why Patterns?
Title: Re: Re: Recommend Me Some 20th Century 'Pastoral' Symphonies
Post by: Karl Henning on April 12, 2012, 03:18:27 AM
Quote from: J.Z. Herrenberg on April 12, 2012, 12:43:19 AM
Poor Delius.


:'( ;D

I know! I've never (or, not yet) warmed to his work; but times like this, you want to rub the chap's shoulder....
Title: Re: Recommend Me Some 20th Century 'Pastoral' Symphonies
Post by: Sergeant Rock on April 12, 2012, 03:25:33 AM
Quote from: karlhenning on April 12, 2012, 03:16:42 AM
Sarge, that was the beautiful ambiguity of the post! It is also a play in the running game, an allusion to Feldman's Why Patterns?

Oh! Well done then, by chasmaniac  ;D ...and shame on me for not getting the reference, for not knowing the Feldman piece.

Sarge
Title: Re: Recommend Me Some 20th Century 'Pastoral' Symphonies
Post by: Karl Henning on April 12, 2012, 03:42:34 AM
Quote from: Sergeant Rock on April 12, 2012, 03:25:33 AM
Oh! Well done then, by chasmaniac  ;D ...and shame on me for not getting the reference, for not knowing the Feldman piece.

Do I remember you correctly for a fan of Coptic Light, Sarge? Why Patterns?, too, I should include in my short list of Uncle Morty's Greatest Hits.

Of course, a Best of Feldman Anthology would easily run to 16 CDs . . . .
Title: Re: Re: Recommend Me Some 20th Century 'Pastoral' Symphonies
Post by: J.Z. Herrenberg on April 12, 2012, 04:42:19 AM
Quote from: karlhenning on Today at 13:18:27 (http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php?topic=20323.msg619797#msg619797)
I know! I've never (or, not yet) warmed to his work; but times like this, you want to rub the chap's shoulder....



Do. Spread some of that famous Boston charity.
Title: Re: Recommend Me Some 20th Century 'Pastoral' Symphonies
Post by: snyprrr on April 12, 2012, 08:16:56 AM
Quote from: snyprrr on April 11, 2012, 07:14:35 AM
Morton Feldman: For Cowpat

:P

For 'Pat


ok ok, boy are we having fun here or what, haha!?!?! Still, I DON'T think RVW's 5 is 'Pastoral' ENOUGH!!!
Title: Re: Recommend Me Some 20th Century 'Pastoral' Symphonies
Post by: Karl Henning on April 12, 2012, 08:19:23 AM
Quote from: snyprrr on April 12, 2012, 08:16:56 AM
Still, I DON'T think RVW's 5 is 'Pastoral' ENOUGH!!!

Gaaah, whadda you know — you don't like the Wuorinen first quartet ; )
Title: Re: Recommend Me Some 20th Century 'Pastoral' Symphonies
Post by: escher on April 19, 2012, 01:36:43 PM
already mentioned, but: Ives, 3rd symphony

Delius was a fantastic composer for me.
And though it's not a Symphony

John Foulds, April England