...is that there isn't enough of his music!
So for those of us who, having heard everything he wrote in multiple versions, crave MORE BRUCKNER!!! ...are there works by other composers which might fulfil that yearning?
I can think of very few: only Rautavaara's 3rd Symphony really seems to qualify.
Maybe fellow forummers can come up with more candidates. Perhaps pupils of Bruckner, or "next generation" German-speaking composers whose music might fit the bill?
And yes, I do realise that this is a "big ask", as the current parlance has it...
Bruckner... He played for the Red Sox, right?
Furtwängler Symphony #2
Richard Wetz Symphonies 1, 2 and 3
Sarge
Hans Rott Symphony: a little bit Bruckner, a little bit Wagner, a little bit Brahms, a little bit Smetana, a whole lot of Mahler (or Mahler is a whole lot of Rott ;D )
Sarge
Quote from: Sergeant Rock on April 25, 2012, 10:13:05 AM
Furtwängler Symphony #2
Richard Wetz Symphonies 1, 2 and 3
Sarge
Thank you - I haven't heard those. I'll investigate :)
[ASIN]B006J4AHHC[/ASIN]Saint Saens: Symphony No. 3
[ASIN]B0014118D2[/ASIN]Kalinnikov: Symphony No. 1 (with apologies for the cover!)
[ASIN]B00000I7RC[/ASIN]Rautavaara: Symphony No. 3
[ASIN]B0000016GB[/ASIN]Schnittke: Symphony No. 3
[ASIN]B000005EBQ[/ASIN]Beethoven: Symphony No. 9
I'm not sure about Kalinnikov, but...
Quote from: eyeresist on April 25, 2012, 06:17:52 PM
Beethoven: Symphony No. 9
...in the specific performance eyeresist cites, with Barenboim and the Staatskapelle Berlin, Beethoven's Ninth
is very Brucknerian.
If you like extremely early Bruckner, you might do well to seek out Rufinatscha's Sixth on Chandos or Schubert's final symphony. But I'm sure 'extremely early Bruckner' isn't what you meant!
The trouble with Bruckner is there just isn't enough cowbell in his music. :)
Quote from: Sergeant Rock on April 25, 2012, 10:13:05 AM
Furtwängler Symphony #2
Richard Wetz Symphonies 1, 2 and 3
Sarge
Wetz - hmmm, a bit, well,
wet compared with AB?
The Furtwangler I have yet to get round to...
Simpson! His Ninth sounds promising on Youtube 8)
How about the symphony by his favorite student Hans Rott: people talk about its influence on Mahler, but Rott is not a little under the influence of Bruckner, and Brahms too, as the work is a fusion of sorts.
[asin]B00096S2U0[/asin]
Quote from: Darwin on April 26, 2012, 12:04:46 AMSimpson! His Ninth sounds promising on Youtube 8)
It sounds more like chopped-up Sibelius to me :P
Strong second on Richard Wetz, although he has some serious awkwardness owing to lack of proper training.
Furtwängler actually wrote three symphonies and a piano concerto and they all have a Brucknerian feel to them.
And then there's this strange bird:
[asin]B0013PS4AY[/asin]
Lots of Brucknerian echoes and hints, but also lots of other stuff tossed in; in all, uneven but intriguing. (Hausegger was the one who premiered the original version of the Bruckner 9; his 1938 recording is still for sale.)
Symphonies of Felix von Weingartner also might be of interest; again, Brucknerian elements but hardly a clone. Good music though.
And one more, a real oddity but well worth the trouble :
[asin]B004R7WGR2[/asin]
It's very hard for me to understand why it has taken so long to rediscover this lady; CPO has now put out this disc and also one of chamber music, and while she is no threat to the Top 10 Greatest, her music has a real brilliance that I found wholly unexpected. Again, as with the previous people mentioned, the spirit of Bruckner is present in great measure, but this is not Bruckner's Tenth. But then, really, what IS Bruckner's Tenth?
Penderecki 2?
Quote from: snyprrr on April 26, 2012, 07:29:10 PM
Penderecki 2?
A symphony I like a great deal. I have an old Polish recording (Kaspczyk, 1981) with wonderfully rorty low brass. And I agree that it has quite a lot of the Bruckner
sound to it (maybe not the
content... but never mind!).
I seem to have the Rott symphony on my Brennan, and I know I have one of the Furtwanglers on a CD - but my CDs are all packed away at the moment because I'm about to move house. I think. Some of you probably know how it is... at least this forum provides a few stress-free minutes in each day...
Uncle Connie, thanks for those pointers. How/why do you get to hear these super-obscure works? I don't have enough time (or money) to delve so deep.
PS Having now sampled the Hausegger via Youtube (I didn't realise until recently that there was so much music there) I am impressed. It may not be much like Bruckner, but to my inexpert ears it sounds much more competent than Wetz - better argued and, perhaps because it is technically superior, more sincere and communicative. Added to my Amazon wish list!
I've never been able to understand the neglect of the Paul Dukas symphony in C major ,his only surviving one. (apparently,another was destroyed by the composer). It has a certain Brucknerian granduer and seriousness , and is a very moving and exciting work .
It's in three movements, with highly energetic outer ones and a brooding and earnest adagio between .
It's chock full of attractive thematic material very skillfully developed , and when you hear it for the first time, you'll wonder where it's been all your life .
There are several recordings, by Slatkin on RCA, Yan Pascal Tprtellier on Chandos , and the late Jean Fournet on Denon, and Jean martinon on EMI,t's a for example.
I got to know the symphony on a Decca LP back in th e70s swith Walter Weller and the LPO, coupled with the Sorceror's Apprentice .
It's a terrific performance, but I don't believe it's ever been reissued on CD, which is a pity . Grab it if it ever does.
Quote from: Brian on April 25, 2012, 06:59:07 PM
I'm not sure about Kalinnikov
To my ears Kalinnikov's music is Russian through and through, couldn't be farther away from Bruckner than that.. ;D
Quote from: Superhorn on April 27, 2012, 08:37:05 AM
I've never been able to understand the neglect of the Paul Dukas Symphony in C major ,his only surviving one. (apparently,another was destroyed by the composer). It has a certain Brucknerian granduer and seriousness , and is a very moving and exciting work .
You are quite right, and through it
Dukas proves
Schoenberg's statement that C major still contained possibilities.
It should be heard at concerts more often than it is.
Quote from: Florestan on April 27, 2012, 08:40:52 AM
To my ears Kalinnikov's music is Russian through and through, couldn't be farther away from Bruckner than that.. ;D
I found the choice a little awry also: certainly if you want more
Tchaikovsky, then seek
Kalinnikov! His two symphonies are most excellent!
Quote from: Uncle Connie on April 26, 2012, 06:04:42 PM
Strong second on Richard Wetz, although he has some serious awkwardness owing to lack of proper training.
Furtwängler actually wrote three symphonies and a piano concerto and they all have a Brucknerian feel to them.
And then there's this strange bird:
[asin]B0013PS4AY[/asin]
Lots of Brucknerian echoes and hints, but also lots of other stuff tossed in; in all, uneven but intriguing. (Hausegger was the one who premiered the original version of the Bruckner 9; his 1938 recording is still for sale.)
Symphonies of Felix von Weingartner also might be of interest; again, Brucknerian elements but hardly a clone. Good music though.
And one more, a real oddity but well worth the trouble :
[asin]B004R7WGR2[/asin]
It's very hard for me to understand why it has taken so long to rediscover this lady; CPO has now put out this disc and also one of chamber music, and while she is no threat to the Top 10 Greatest, her music has a real brilliance that I found wholly unexpected. Again, as with the previous people mentioned, the spirit of Bruckner is present in great measure, but this is not Bruckner's Tenth. But then, really, what IS Bruckner's Tenth?
Thanks for this overview! I am really interested to give the above recordings a go, especially Wetz, who will be my next purchase for next month.
8)
I've off and on been drawing attention here to two late Romantics: Parry and Franz Schmidt. Not especially Brucknerian, but at least late Romantic, good, and mostly overlooked.
Prior to reading this thread I had just finished listening to Finn Mortensen's 1953 Symphony Op. 5. It's an amazing neoromantic masterpiece. Sadly, it appears to be the only work of its kind Mortensen wrote. Brucknerian with elements of Hindemith, I find it totally engaging and it would particularly appeal to lovers of Bruckner.
[asin]B0062Z20IW[/asin]
How have I managed to miss the Rautavaara Symphony 3. I know a few of his pieces, but not this. It is terrific. Thanks.
Mike
Quote from: Florestan on April 27, 2012, 08:40:52 AMTo my ears Kalinnikov's music is Russian through and through, couldn't be farther away from Bruckner than that.. ;D
We went through this in the GMG's Top Symphonies thread last year. My rec is specifically for the Friedmann performance, the best available IMO, and the word Brucknerian has been applied to it.
Quote from: knight66 on April 28, 2012, 11:55:44 AMHow have I managed to miss the Rautavaara Symphony 3. I know a few of his pieces, but not this. It is terrific. Thanks.
Y'welcome!
Quote from: vivolin on April 28, 2012, 07:30:14 AM
Prior to reading this thread I had just finished listening to Finn Mortensen's 1953 Symphony Op. 5. It's an amazing neoromantic masterpiece. Sadly, it appears to be the only work of its kind Mortensen wrote. Brucknerian with elements of Hindemith, I find it totally engaging and it would particularly appeal to lovers of Bruckner.
Although people may disagree with the assertion, I have always sensed some
Brucknerian elements in
Hindemith, who of course is usually linked to Neo-Classicism, and rightly so.
Still,
Bruckner was something of a classicist himself! Probably some Ph.D. thesis in Musicology has an analysis of
Bruckner's possible influence on
Hindemith. 0:)
Quote from: Cato on April 30, 2012, 09:45:15 AM
Although people may disagree with the assertion, I have always sensed some Brucknerian elements in Hindemith, who of course is usually linked to Neo-Classicism, and rightly so.
Intriguing! I couldn't possibly speak to it, as I've only relatively recently found my way "into the Abbey," as 'twere.
Last weekend I bought the three symphonies of Richard Wetz (CPO label) on iTunes, and imagined I was at a Wetz Festival in Erfurt. I listened to all of them, separating the symphonies by listening to the Kleist-Ouvertüre and Gesang des Lebens.
I was in epic-late-romantic-symphonic heaven all afternoon. I am looking forward to more listens of these works!
8)
Quote from: Leo K on April 30, 2012, 10:21:21 AM
Last weekend I bought the three symphonies of Richard Wetz (CPO label) on iTunes, and imagined I was at a Wetz Festival in Erfurt. I listened to all of them, separating the symphonies by listening to the Kleist-Ouvertüre and Gesang des Lebens.
I was in epic-late-romantic-symphonic heaven all afternoon. I am looking forward to more listens of these works!
8)
I have not heard these: to what degree do they qualify as heirs to the symphonies of
Saint Anton? 0:)
Quote from: Cato on April 30, 2012, 09:45:15 AMAlthough people may disagree with the assertion, I have always sensed some Brucknerian elements in Hindemith, who of course is usually linked to Neo-Classicism, and rightly so.
Well, the Germans do tend to love their brass chorales - and who can blame them?
He has already been mentioned - Franz Schmidt. His Second Symphony is rather Brucknerian, and it has a rousing brass chorale in the final movement... The performance by Neëme Järvi on Chandos is excellent.
Quote from: J.Z. Herrenberg on May 01, 2012, 02:23:00 AM
He has already been mentioned - Franz Schmidt. His Second Symphony is rather Brucknerian, and it has a rousing brass chorale in the final movement... The performance by Neëme Järvi on Chandos is excellent.
And Luisi's performance, slower than Järvi, is even more Brucknerian. Good choices, both.
Sarge
Quote from: Leo K on April 30, 2012, 10:21:21 AM
Last weekend I bought the three symphonies of Richard Wetz (CPO label) on iTunes, and imagined I was at a Wetz Festival in Erfurt. I listened to all of them, separating the symphonies by listening to the Kleist-Ouvertüre and Gesang des Lebens.
I was in epic-late-romantic-symphonic heaven all afternoon. I am looking forward to more listens of these works!
8)
(http://photos.imageevent.com/sgtrock/asheville/bUTTHEAD.gif)
Welcome to the Wetz club :) It's rather exclusive. Members include me, Uncle Connie, now you, and... Well, that's about it 8)
Sarge
Quote from: Cato on April 30, 2012, 11:44:01 AM
I have not heard these: to what degree do they qualify as heirs to the symphonies of Saint Anton? 0:)
"Whereas at the beginning it was Mozart, Beethoven and Schumann who showed him the way to his own goal, in Franz Liszt and Anton Bruckner he encountered two near-contemporaries with whom he sensed a special elective affinity without ever letting himself be completely absorbed or infected by them.... Now it would be absurd to want to deny the very direct Brucknerian influences evident in the three symphonies which Wetz composed between 1915 and 1922. Although he may have been of the opinion that he had adopted no more than the treatment of the brass from his great model, anyone familiar with Bruckner who listens for the first time to Wetz's music will immediately recognize the motivic and harmonic similarities." --Eckhardt von den Hoogen, from the CPO liner notes to the Third Symphony.
Sarge
Not sure I quite like the word "infected," there ; )
Brass chorales . . . these go back directly to Bruckner? Well, perhaps you're right at that. The history of the mechanics of the instruments favors that period.
Quote from: karlhenning on May 01, 2012, 03:50:10 AM
Not sure I quite like the word "infected," there ; )
Brass chorales . . . these go back directly to Bruckner?
Wetz's brass chorales go back to Bruckner, Bruckner's brass chorales go back to Gabrielli.
Sarge
Quote from: Sergeant Rock on May 01, 2012, 03:53:52 AM
Wetz brass chorales go back to Bruckner, Bruckner's brass chorales go back to Gabrielli.
Understood, Sarge; I was only thinking that, in the interval, trumpets in particular benefited from mechanical developments, so that the overall tone of the brass choir would have been entirely otherwise. With the fully chromatic trumpet, you can have warm trumpet tones in their low register which would not have been at all practical in the days of the Venetian maestro.
Quote from: Sergeant Rock on May 01, 2012, 03:02:54 AM
"Whereas at the beginning it was Mozart, Beethoven and Schumann who showed him the way to his own goal, in Franz Liszt and Anton Bruckner he encountered two near-contemporaries with whom he sensed a special elective affinity without ever letting himself be completely absorbed or infected by them.... ." --Eckhardt von den Hoogen, from the CPO liner notes to the Third Symphony.
Sarge
Quote from: karlhenning on May 01, 2012, 03:50:10 AM
Not sure I quite like the word "infected," there ; )
Karl: the answer as to why you twitch at the word is that it is from a CPO CD's notes! ;D
The absolutely worst liner notes ever can often be found there: my CPO
Prokofiev notes at times sound like they were written by Martians on speed. :o
Funny you should say, Cato! Just to-day, I looked at the liner notes to the cpo CD of the Hartmann quartets. P.U.!
Quote from: Sergeant Rock on May 01, 2012, 02:31:42 AM
Welcome to the Wetz club :) It's rather exclusive. Members include me, Uncle Connie, now you, and... Well, that's about it 8)
And me.
Wetz symphonies were written simply to be the answer to this thread beginning question.
I would say that there is such thing as "Bruckner-symphony" genre. There are 14 symphonies belonging to it. 11 are by Bruckner and 3 are by Wetz.
Rott symphony is close but he developed Bruckner model in direction to future Mahler. Wetz developed Bruckner model in direction to Bruckner. Yes. And "developed" is the key word here. He was not imitator of Bruckner, he was just Anton 1.2.
Harry is another Wetz fan. And I know I shall have to listen again...