GMG Classical Music Forum

The Music Room => General Classical Music Discussion => Topic started by: techniquest on May 17, 2012, 01:20:01 PM

Title: What was the first symphony to feature the tam-tam?
Post by: techniquest on May 17, 2012, 01:20:01 PM
I know that the tam tam was used in operas by both Rossini and Wagner, but as far as I can glean from my own musical knowledge (very limited) and my CD collection, the first appearance in a Symphony would be Tchaikovsky's Manfred Symphony of 1885, closely followed by Mahler's 1st in 1887. I'd be very interested to know of earlier symphonies which feature this instrument.
Title: Re: What was the first symphony to feature the tam-tam?
Post by: pjme on May 22, 2012, 03:44:31 AM


From wikipedia:

The tam-tam was first introduced into a western orchestra by François Joseph Gossec in the funeral march composed at the death of Mirabeau in 1791. Gaspare Spontini used it in La Vestale (1807), in the finale of Act II, an impressive scene in which the high pontiff pronounces the anathema on the faithless vestal. It was also used in the funeral music played when the remains of Napoleon were brought back to France in 1840. Meyerbeer made use of the instrument in the scene of the resurrection of the three nuns in Robert le diable

Maybe composers like Rameau or Lully used gongs or tamtams purely as an "effect" ( cfr. thundersheet/ noise to evoke terror, fear, drama...) in their operas. ???

P.
Title: Re: What was the first symphony to feature the tam-tam?
Post by: techniquest on May 22, 2012, 10:39:02 PM
Yes, I was aware that the tam-tam had been used in operatic and incidental music, but I'm interested to find its' first use in a Symphony. So far I haven't found anything further back in history than Tchaikovsky's Manfred symphony.
Title: Re: What was the first symphony to feature the tam-tam?
Post by: eyeresist on May 23, 2012, 02:25:04 AM
Liszt's 1857 Dante symphony (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dante_Symphony) includes a gong. Some argument as to whether it's a true symphony, though.
Title: Re: What was the first symphony to feature the tam-tam?
Post by: snyprrr on May 23, 2012, 09:38:04 AM
tam tam

Is it a gong, a cymbal,... ay ay... WHAT is the English word??????? show me a pic!
Title: Re: What was the first symphony to feature the tam-tam?
Post by: pjme on May 23, 2012, 11:26:07 AM
(http://www.frankperry.co.uk/images/TUGONGS.JPG)

Gongs can be tuned and come in different sizes

and read at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gong

(http://www.digischool.nl/mu/leerlingen/mt/instrumenten/plaatjes/gong1.gif)

The tamtam comes only in different sizes

Title: Re: What was the first symphony to feature the tam-tam?
Post by: eyeresist on May 23, 2012, 06:52:35 PM
QuoteGongs produce two distinct types of sound. A gong with a substantially flat surface vibrates in multiple modes, giving a "crash" rather than a tuned note. This category of gong is sometimes called a tam-tam to distinguish it from the bossed gongs that give a tuned note. ... Suspended gongs are played with beaters and are of two main types: flat faced discs either with or without a turned edge, and gongs with a raised center boss. In general, the larger the gong, the larger and softer the beater. In Western symphonic music the flat faced gongs are generally referred to as tam-tams to distinguish them from their bossed counterparts, although the term "gong" is correct to use for either type.

I think for our purposes the terms are interchangable.
Title: Re: What was the first symphony to feature the tam-tam?
Post by: mszczuj on May 24, 2012, 02:31:34 AM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grande_symphonie_fun%C3%A8bre_et_triomphale#Instrumentation
Title: Re: What was the first symphony to feature the tam-tam?
Post by: eyeresist on May 24, 2012, 05:39:32 PM
^ Yes, I was wondering about Berlioz, but didn't know enough about him to say anything useful.
Title: Re: What was the first symphony to feature the tam-tam?
Post by: techniquest on May 24, 2012, 10:42:52 PM
^ There seem to be rather a lot of 'optional' items in the instrumentation for this Berlioz piece. Does anyone know of a recording that includes all the optional instruments?
Title: Re: What was the first symphony to feature the tam-tam?
Post by: mszczuj on May 25, 2012, 03:32:15 AM
I'm not sure it is really the first tam-tam symphony, it is just first I have found so far.
Title: Re: What was the first symphony to feature the tam-tam?
Post by: eyeresist on May 25, 2012, 05:04:40 AM
Presumably in the bowels of a music conservatory library is a book on the history of the gong with just the answer you seek....
Title: Re: What was the first symphony to feature the tam-tam?
Post by: snyprrr on May 25, 2012, 06:42:14 AM
Quote from: pjme on May 23, 2012, 11:26:07 AM
(http://www.frankperry.co.uk/images/TUGONGS.JPG)

Gongs can be tuned and come in different sizes

and read at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gong

(http://www.digischool.nl/mu/leerlingen/mt/instrumenten/plaatjes/gong1.gif)

The tamtam comes only in different sizes

thanks ;)