GMG Classical Music Forum

The Music Room => Composer Discussion => Topic started by: M forever on July 11, 2007, 06:19:09 AM

Poll
Question: Who was the greatest English composer ever?
Option 1: George Frederic Handel votes: 15
Option 2: Boy George votes: 15
Option 3: Andrew Lloyd Webber votes: 0
Option 4: Charles Ives votes: 8
Option 5: Edward Elgar votes: 5
Title: Handel vs. Elgar death match
Post by: M forever on July 11, 2007, 06:19:09 AM
Who was the greatest English composer ever? I mean "English" in the sense of living in England for all or most of his life, contributing to English music and musical life and culture, so that includes Händel in the sense of Handel.
Title: Re: Handel vs. Elgar death match
Post by: karlhenning on July 11, 2007, 06:21:18 AM
I like that New England is for this poll's purposes considered part of England!

I vote Ives!
Title: Re: Handel vs. Elgar death match
Post by: PerfectWagnerite on July 11, 2007, 06:23:03 AM
I give Britten a vote. The guy wrote in almost every genre, was a very respected conductor and pianist, and they even made him a Lord, while they only gave other composers "Sir". Yeah, definitely Britten. Even his name sounds like 'Britain". What more can you ask for?
Title: Re: Handel vs. Elgar death match
Post by: M forever on July 11, 2007, 06:26:19 AM
Quote from: karlhenning on July 11, 2007, 06:21:18 AM
I like that New England is for this poll's purposes considered part of England!

I vote Ives!

Psssst!!! That is supposed to be a trick question. Don't tell anyone.
Title: Re: Handel vs. Elgar death match
Post by: M forever on July 11, 2007, 06:27:47 AM
Quote from: PerfectWagnerite on July 11, 2007, 06:23:03 AM
I give Britten a vote. The guy wrote in almost every genre, was a very respected conductor and pianist, and they even made him a Lord, while they only gave other composers "Sir". Yeah, definitely Britten. Even his name sounds like 'Britain". What more can you ask for?

Except there is no button for Britten, young man. But if you want, you can vote Boy George instead, he was gay, too.
Title: Re: Handel vs. Elgar death match
Post by: springrite on July 11, 2007, 06:28:03 AM
Quote from: PerfectWagnerite on July 11, 2007, 06:23:03 AM
definitely Britten. Even his name sounds like 'Britain". What more can you ask for?


I'd give it a tie between Britten and Englund!


Title: Re: Handel vs. Elgar death match
Post by: paul on July 11, 2007, 06:31:42 AM
Boy George, obviously. Did Elgar ever score a hit on the charts like Do You Really Want To Hurt Me did?
Title: Re: Handel vs. Elgar death match
Post by: PerfectWagnerite on July 11, 2007, 06:35:06 AM
Quote from: M forever on July 11, 2007, 06:27:47 AM
Except there is no button for Britten, young man. But if you want, you can vote Boy George instead, he was gay, too.

Yeah but can he conductor Mozart?
Title: Re: Handel vs. Elgar death match
Post by: PSmith08 on July 11, 2007, 06:36:22 AM
Quote from: M forever on July 11, 2007, 06:27:47 AM
Except there is no button for Britten, young man. But if you want, you can vote Boy George instead, he was gay, too.

Quote from: paul on July 11, 2007, 06:31:42 AM
Boy George, obviously. Did Elgar ever score a hit on the charts like Do You Really Want To Hurt Me did?

And "Karma Chameleon" is easier on the ears than War Requiem. No one I want to meet is going to dance to "Be slowly lifted up." But, if we're talking about English pop, I'd rather go with Jarvis Cocker. "Common People"? Come on.

I voted for George, though. Greatest is greatest.
Title: Re: Handel vs. Elgar death match
Post by: Mark on July 11, 2007, 06:36:56 AM
Quote from: M forever on July 11, 2007, 06:27:47 AM
Except there is no button for Britten, young man. But if you want, you can vote Boy George instead, he was gay, too.

Is Boy George dead? If not, why was gay? Don't tell me he's started doing it with girls! :o
Title: Re: Handel vs. Elgar death match
Post by: Choo Choo on July 11, 2007, 06:40:13 AM
All pygmies compared with this genius (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zxWK9keh3XI).
Title: Re: Handel vs. Elgar death match
Post by: karlhenning on July 11, 2007, 06:40:40 AM
Only girls who really want to hurt him, Mark.
Title: Re: Handel vs. Elgar death match
Post by: Mark on July 11, 2007, 06:44:33 AM
Quote from: Choo Choo on July 11, 2007, 06:40:13 AM
All pygmies compared with this genius (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zxWK9keh3XI).

He does a fabulous range of Lean, Mean Grilling Machines, too. ;)
Title: Re: Handel vs. Elgar death match
Post by: PSmith08 on July 11, 2007, 06:45:43 AM
Quote from: karlhenning on July 11, 2007, 06:40:40 AM
Only girls who really want to hurt him, Mark.

But only if they tell him so when he asks.
Title: Re: Handel vs. Elgar death match
Post by: knight66 on July 11, 2007, 07:13:13 AM
Quote from: Mark on July 11, 2007, 06:44:33 AM
He does a fabulous range of Lean, Mean Grilling Machines, too. ;)

Is that a euphamism Mark?

How about Boy Purcell?

Boy Britten it would be for me though.

Mike
Title: Re: Handel vs. Elgar death match
Post by: karlhenning on July 11, 2007, 07:15:42 AM
Quote from: knight on July 11, 2007, 07:13:13 AM
Boy Britten it would be for me though.

Maybe it's like Geo Washington, Mike? Did Britten serve two terms already?  8)
Title: Re: Handel vs. Elgar death match
Post by: knight66 on July 11, 2007, 07:18:56 AM
Quote from: karlhenning on July 11, 2007, 07:15:42 AM
Maybe it's like Geo Washington, Mike? Did Britten serve two terms already?  8)

No....he was very lucky really, he never even served one term. We could have had a Ballad of Wandsworth Prison.

Mike
Title: Re: Handel vs. Elgar death match
Post by: Mark on July 11, 2007, 08:01:52 AM
Quote from: knight on July 11, 2007, 07:13:13 AM
Is that a euphamism Mark?

No. Just a childish 'mis-reading' of Formby (Foreman?). ;)
Title: Re: Handel vs. Elgar death match
Post by: not edward on July 11, 2007, 08:23:24 AM
"But what about that guy who wrote the music for the diamond commercials?*"

*Yes, I am aware he is Welsh. ;)
Title: Re: Handel vs. Elgar death match
Post by: Mark on July 11, 2007, 08:25:08 AM
Quote from: edward on July 11, 2007, 08:23:24 AM
"But what about that guy who wrote the music for the diamond commercials?*"

*Yes, I am aware he is Welsh. ;)

Karl Jenkins? Does his output count as classical music?
Title: Re: Handel vs. Elgar death match
Post by: not edward on July 11, 2007, 08:28:33 AM
Quote from: Mark on July 11, 2007, 08:25:08 AM
Karl Jenkins? Does his output count as classical music?
I think it counts as 'output.' :D
Title: Re: Handel vs. Elgar death match
Post by: knight66 on July 11, 2007, 08:29:35 AM
Quote from: Mark on July 11, 2007, 08:25:08 AM
Karl Jenkins? Does his output count as classical music?

Some of it is on the cusp and he has a mass called The Armed Man. I am going to have the honour of singing in it in the Autumn. It sounds exactly like film music suitable for the Kingdom of Heaven flick.

Mike
Title: Re: Handel vs. Elgar death match
Post by: Mark on July 11, 2007, 08:30:16 AM
Quote from: edward on July 11, 2007, 08:28:33 AM
I think it counts as 'output.' :D

Going for the hattrick - that's my third 'Post of Today' :D
Title: Re: Handel vs. Elgar death match
Post by: Mark on July 11, 2007, 08:31:58 AM
Quote from: knight on July 11, 2007, 08:29:35 AM
Some of it is on the cusp and he has a mass called The Armed Man. I am going to have the honour of singing in it in the Autumn. It sounds exactly like film music suitable for the Kingdom of Heaven flick.

Mike

The only part of that which I enjoy, Mike, is the rather moving/weepie (ideal cinematic scoring) Benedictus.
Title: Re: Handel vs. Elgar death match
Post by: Tancata on July 11, 2007, 08:35:44 AM
Quote from: knight on July 11, 2007, 08:29:35 AM
Some of it is on the cusp and he has a mass called The Armed Man. I am going to have the honour of singing in it in the Autumn. It sounds exactly like film music suitable for the Kingdom of Heaven flick.

Mike

Karl Jenkins is alright. In the rankings he comes just between Donovan and Rolf Harris.
Title: Re: Handel vs. Elgar death match
Post by: karlhenning on July 11, 2007, 08:37:16 AM
Quote from: edward on July 11, 2007, 08:28:33 AM
I think it counts as 'output.' :D

As opposed to Lloyd Wwebber and Rutter ('throughput')
Title: Re: Handel vs. Elgar death match
Post by: springrite on July 11, 2007, 08:55:43 AM
Quote from: edward on July 11, 2007, 08:28:33 AM
I think it counts as 'output.' :D

Well, lots of things can be considered "outputs", I am reminded as I just returned from the smallest room in my house.
Title: Re: Handel vs. Elgar death match
Post by: knight66 on July 11, 2007, 08:59:45 AM
Quote from: Tancata on July 11, 2007, 08:35:44 AM
Karl Jenkins is alright. In the rankings he comes just between Donovan and Rolf Harris.

Ah, so between Mellow Yellow and Jake the Peg..........diddle iddle iddle um. Not quite a rock and a hard place.

He is a bit of a guilty pleasure for me, Adiamus was catchy.

Mike
Title: Re: Handel vs. Elgar death match
Post by: Tancata on July 11, 2007, 09:08:40 AM
Quote from: knight on July 11, 2007, 08:59:45 AM
Ah, so between Mellow Yellow and Jake the Peg..........diddle iddle iddle um. Not quite a rock and a hard place.

He is a bit of a guilty pleasure for me, Adiamus was catchy.

Mike

Heh, well I have nothing against any of those three. I am pretty well-disposed towards Jenkins because the various choirs in Dublin which used to have to rely on a week of Messiahs as a money-spinner can now mix it up a little with the Armed Man or the Requiem. The Dies Irae from the Requiem is pretty cool - it seems to be based on "Tainted Love" and elderly choristers always have trouble with keeping time  8).
Title: Re: Handel vs. Elgar death match
Post by: The Mad Hatter on July 11, 2007, 09:10:33 AM
*wonders where Orlando Gibbons and William Byrd are...*

*wonders where all these 'vs' threads are coming from...*

*wonders how his brain is still working at all...*
Title: Re: Handel vs. Elgar death match
Post by: Que on July 11, 2007, 09:11:13 AM
I have ab-so-lu-te-ly nothing with English composers - nada - ZIP.
Don't know why, maybe they are from another planet than I am.

BTW,  I don't consider Händel an English composer, and I do like Purcell - a bit - but that's about it. ;D

Q
Title: Re: Handel vs. Elgar death match
Post by: PSmith08 on July 11, 2007, 09:13:07 AM
Quote from: Tancata on July 11, 2007, 09:08:40 AMThe Dies Irae from the Requiem is pretty cool - it seems to be based on "Tainted Love" and elderly choristers always have trouble with keeping time  8).

There's a phrase, the juxtapositions of which being novel, that no-one ever even thought about seeing coming. 
Title: Re: Handel vs. Elgar death match
Post by: karlhenning on July 11, 2007, 09:15:35 AM
Just wait until the Dale Warland Singers recording of Missa Love me do is at last released.
Title: Re: Handel vs. Elgar death match
Post by: Choo Choo on July 11, 2007, 09:18:17 AM
Quote from: knight on July 11, 2007, 08:59:45 AM
Ah, so between Mellow Yellow and Jake the Peg..........diddle iddle iddle um. Not quite a rock and a hard place.

I take it, you are not dissing the Rolf-meister?  Not after his performance of Led Zep's Stairway To Heaven (complete with wobble board) at Glastonbury?  Incredible (in every sense)  ;D
Title: Re: Handel vs. Elgar death match
Post by: Mark on July 11, 2007, 09:20:40 AM
Quote from: karlhenning on July 11, 2007, 08:37:16 AM
As opposed to Lloyd Wwebber and Rutter ('throughput')

Applause, please, for Dr. Henning. ;D
Title: Re: Handel vs. Elgar death match
Post by: karlhenning on July 11, 2007, 09:21:17 AM
Quote from: Choo Choo on July 11, 2007, 09:18:17 AM
Not after his performance of Led Zep's Stairway To Heaven (complete with wobble board) at Glastonbury?

Admittedly a tangent:

From the 'Best Band You Never Heard in Your Life' tour, Zappa plays "Stairway to Heaven," Cleveland, 5 March 88 (http://youtube.com/watch?v=7vEmQnExY0c)
Title: Re: Handel vs. Elgar death match
Post by: knight66 on July 11, 2007, 09:33:33 AM
Quote from: Choo Choo on July 11, 2007, 09:18:17 AM
I take it, you are not dissing the Rolf-meister?  Not after his performance of Led Zep's Stairway To Heaven (complete with wobble board) at Glastonbury?  Incredible (in every sense)  ;D

His theme song ought to be 'I will survive' An institution in his quaint way.

Mike
Title: Re: Handel vs. Elgar death match
Post by: Bonehelm on July 11, 2007, 11:26:29 AM
Handel, just because Beethoven said so.
Title: Re: Handel vs. Elgar death match
Post by: karlhenning on July 11, 2007, 11:37:53 AM
Oh, don't go there.

We'll just get a fresh spate of "If Beethoven had known Elgar, he would have licked the Elgarian bootlaces" . . . .
Title: Re: Handel vs. Elgar death match
Post by: Scriptavolant on July 11, 2007, 12:07:44 PM
That topic surprizes me, since I'm the greatest british composer ever and I thought this was undisputed too  ???
Title: Re: Handel vs. Elgar death match
Post by: Don on July 11, 2007, 12:13:58 PM
I went with Elgar.  I do prefer Handel, but I don't consider him a British composer.
Title: Re: Handel vs. Elgar death match
Post by: Boris_G on July 11, 2007, 12:21:47 PM
Of course it has to be Elgar!   ;D
Title: Re: Handel vs. Elgar death match
Post by: 71 dB on July 11, 2007, 12:26:24 PM
Quote from: Bonehelm on July 11, 2007, 11:26:29 AM
Handel, just because Beethoven said so.

(http://img169.imageshack.us/img169/7931/saidsowy2.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)
Title: Re: Handel vs. Elgar death match
Post by: Bonehelm on July 11, 2007, 01:00:38 PM
Quote from: 71 dB on July 11, 2007, 12:26:24 PM
(http://img169.imageshack.us/img169/7931/saidsowy2.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)

Your comments worth as much as a 10-nanometer dust particle to me. Beethoven's though, is everything. Call me delusional, but before you become as great as LvB, don't even talk to me.
Title: Re: Handel vs. Elgar death match
Post by: zamyrabyrd on July 11, 2007, 01:06:33 PM
Where's Purcell and Paul McCartney for that matter?
And come to think of it, William Byrd and Henry VIII.

ZB
Title: Re: Handel vs. Elgar death match
Post by: Don on July 11, 2007, 01:23:05 PM
Quote from: 71 dB on July 11, 2007, 12:26:24 PM
(http://img169.imageshack.us/img169/7931/saidsowy2.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)

That one had me laughing a lot.   :) :) :) :) 
Title: Re: Handel vs. Elgar death match
Post by: Tancata on July 11, 2007, 01:50:08 PM
Quote from: zamyrabyrd on July 11, 2007, 01:06:33 PM
Where's Purcell and Paul McCartney for that matter?

Possible GMG threads of the future #1: "When I am laid in Earth" vs. "Mull of Kintyre"
Title: Re: Handel vs. Elgar death match
Post by: knight66 on July 11, 2007, 01:55:12 PM
Quote from: Bonehelm on July 11, 2007, 11:26:29 AM
Handel, just because Beethoven said so.

But that's not fair, he did not get the opportunity to say 'Elgar'. He might have paused...for a moment.

Mike
Title: Re: Handel vs. Elgar death match
Post by: Bonehelm on July 11, 2007, 02:36:58 PM
Quote from: knight on July 11, 2007, 01:55:12 PM
But that's not fair, he did not get the opportunity to say 'Elgar'. He might have paused...for a moment.

Mike

1. LvB died 30 years before Elgar was even born
2. LvB would curse and throw overcooked eggs at his servant, let alone declaring a medicore-at-best composer WHICH supposedly had greater orchestration skills than him the finest English composer.
3. Just.....no.
Title: Re: Handel vs. Elgar death match
Post by: Tancata on July 11, 2007, 02:41:16 PM
Quote from: Bonehelm on July 11, 2007, 02:36:58 PM
1. LvB died 30 years before Elgar was even born
2. LvB would curse and throw overcooked eggs at his servant, let alone declaring a medicore-at-best composer WHICH supposedly had greater orchestration skills than him the finest English composer.
3. Just.....no.

There may be context.
Title: Re: Handel vs. Elgar death match
Post by: Mark on July 11, 2007, 03:15:06 PM
Quote from: Bonehelm on July 11, 2007, 02:36:58 PM
3. Just.....no.

I love this. I can hear Bonehelm saying it as he typed. ;D
Title: Re: Handel vs. Elgar death match
Post by: knight66 on July 11, 2007, 03:22:29 PM
Can one of you tell me...did he take me seriously?

Mike
Title: Re: Handel vs. Elgar death match
Post by: Mark on July 11, 2007, 03:27:11 PM
Quote from: knight on July 11, 2007, 03:22:29 PM
Can one of you tell me...did he take me seriously?

Mike

I'm going with ... maybe. ;D
Title: Re: Handel vs. Elgar death match
Post by: knight66 on July 11, 2007, 03:31:52 PM
Mmmmm.

Mike
Title: Re: Handel vs. Elgar death match
Post by: Bonehelm on July 11, 2007, 03:39:26 PM
Quote from: Mark on July 11, 2007, 03:15:06 PM
I love this. I can hear Bonehelm saying it as he typed. ;D

Lol... :D

And no Mike I didn't take you seriously. That's why I didn't come up with my own scientific theory to counter your arugement. I have way better things to do than posting 3000 word crap on the internet.  ;D
Title: Re: Handel vs. Elgar death match
Post by: knight66 on July 11, 2007, 03:55:36 PM
Phew....thank goodness for that. Especially as reading 3000 word crap is not in my top ten pasttimes.

Mike
Title: Re: Handel vs. Elgar death match
Post by: BachQ on July 11, 2007, 03:56:59 PM
Quote from: karlhenning on July 11, 2007, 06:21:18 AM
I like that New England is for this poll's purposes considered part of England!

I vote Ives!

I'm with Karl ........
Title: Re: Handel vs. Elgar death match
Post by: Bonehelm on July 11, 2007, 03:58:15 PM
Quote from: knight on July 11, 2007, 03:55:36 PM
Phew....thank goodness for that. Especially as reading 3000 word crap is not in my top ten pasttimes.

Mike

So, Mike, what's your opinion on this thread?  (Elgar vs Handel) Let's hear it if you don't mind  :)
Title: Re: Handel vs. Elgar death match
Post by: knight66 on July 11, 2007, 04:04:44 PM
I like Elgar very much, but if for the purposes of this thread we regard Handel as English....then he wins by a fair margin. If he is excluded then Britten would be my nominee.

Mike
Title: Re: Handel vs. Elgar death match
Post by: springrite on July 11, 2007, 04:15:47 PM
I really like Elgar, BUT, for him to win any vote in a (positive) poll from me, the poll has to be worded very carefully and the field of contenders has to be very restricted, such as "English composer with mustache whom John Cleese might call 'Eddy Baby'", or something like that.
Title: Re: Handel vs. Elgar death match
Post by: Mark on July 11, 2007, 04:18:43 PM
Quote from: springrite on July 11, 2007, 04:15:47 PM
I really like Elgar, BUT, for him to win any vote in a (positive) poll from me, the poll has to be worded very carefully and the field of contenders has to be very restricted, such as "English composer with mustache whom John Cleese might call 'Eddy Baby'", or something like that.

;D
Title: Re: Handel vs. Elgar death match
Post by: BachQ on July 11, 2007, 07:01:26 PM
I refuse to vote until I receive Rod Corkin's input .........
Title: Re: Handel vs. Elgar death match
Post by: Steve on July 11, 2007, 07:11:03 PM
Yes, I will take my cues from Beethoven, and give my vote to Handel. His inclusion makes this the rare favourite-poll that doesn't require too much thought. Britten for the silver spot, then.  ;)
Title: Re: Handel vs. Elgar death match
Post by: FideLeo on July 11, 2007, 08:06:49 PM
None of the above.  For the me William Byrd and John Jenkins share the title of the greatest English composer. 
John Dunstable and Henry Purcell next pair.  Handel is only half English so shouldn't count.
Title: Re: Handel vs. Elgar death match
Post by: M forever on July 11, 2007, 10:35:39 PM
Hey, who added the two last names to the poll? And spelled the last name wrong. I thought only I could do that since I created the thread. I don't mean mis-spelling stuff, yes, I can do that, too, I mean adding names to the poll.
Title: Re: Handel vs. Elgar death match
Post by: PSmith08 on July 11, 2007, 10:37:56 PM
Quote from: M forever on July 11, 2007, 10:35:39 PM
Hey, who added the two last names to the poll? And spelled the last name wrong. I thought only I could do that since I created the thread. I don't mean mis-spelling stuff, yes, I can do that, too, I mean adding names to the poll.

Well, Boy George is still in the lead, so it's only hurting the new guys.
Title: Re: Handel vs. Elgar death match
Post by: knight66 on July 11, 2007, 10:39:28 PM
M, Puzzle to me as I thought the same as you! I will ask Rob.

Mike
Title: Re: Handel vs. Elgar death match
Post by: uffeviking on July 12, 2007, 04:42:41 AM
Good Morning, Folks! 5.30 AM here, sun not down in my valley yet. What's all the excitement here?

Yesterday I looked at the poll, - female curiosity, no intention to participate - and noticed the name of Boy George. Ah, it's a fun poll! Reading all, I saw the remark about the opportunity to 'Edit the Poll', so I added two names, one the most famous Brit, and the other my favorite contemporary composer. Heck, I had no idea only moderators can do such a foul deed; doesn't say so on the poll.

I am still puzzled about all the much ado about nothing. Everybody chill - and have a nice day!  :-*

uffeviking
Title: Re: Handel vs. Elgar death match
Post by: Mark on July 12, 2007, 04:55:06 AM
Lis, I think that while each member can edit their own polls, others shouldn't be able to. Moderators - by virtue of the authority invested in them - would, I imagine, be able to edit polls. After all, someone might post a rude word. ;D
Title: Re: Handel vs. Elgar death match
Post by: uffeviking on July 12, 2007, 05:01:56 AM
Thank you, Mark, and especially for the 'Grin' at the end of your message.  :-* I needed that.
Title: Re: Handel vs. Elgar death match
Post by: knight66 on July 12, 2007, 07:13:31 AM
Well Lis, now M will have the right to put you through a round of the game, Truth, Dare, Double-dare, Promise or Opinion...and I bet his chosen forfit will not be, 'Opinion'. Get your snowshoes ready and round up the huskies. Or perhaps it will be a long walk off a short plank.

Mike 
Title: Re: Handel vs. Elgar death match
Post by: Topaz on July 12, 2007, 07:17:07 AM
Quote from: D Minor on July 11, 2007, 07:01:26 PM
I refuse to vote until I receive Rod Corkin's input .........

I think he might have been frightened off.  I can't think why, mind you. 
Title: Re: Handel vs. Elgar death match
Post by: karlhenning on July 12, 2007, 07:25:26 AM
As easily frighten off a dyspeptic tarantula.
Title: Re: Handel vs. Elgar death match
Post by: Steve on July 15, 2007, 12:24:35 AM
It seems that Boy George has more support on this thread than Handel.  :(
Title: Re: Handel vs. Elgar death match
Post by: The new erato on July 15, 2007, 12:49:34 AM
Quote from: masolino on July 11, 2007, 08:06:49 PM
Handel is only half English so shouldn't count.
Half of Handel would still win the poll. In front of Purcell, Britten and Vaughan-Williams (in no particular order).
Title: Re: Handel vs. Elgar death match
Post by: PSmith08 on July 15, 2007, 09:07:20 AM
Quote from: Steve on July 15, 2007, 12:24:35 AM
It seems that Boy George has more support on this thread than Handel.  :(


And why not?
Title: Re: Handel vs. Elgar death match
Post by: not edward on July 15, 2007, 09:10:33 AM
Quote from: PSmith08 on July 15, 2007, 09:07:20 AM
And why not?
Exactly. I don't recall Handel writing an autobiography called Take it Like a Man.
Title: Re: Handel vs. Elgar death match
Post by: Lethevich on July 15, 2007, 01:39:41 PM
Quote from: Steve on July 15, 2007, 12:24:35 AM
It seems that Boy George has more support on this thread than Handel.  :(

And nobody dared to give Andrew Lloyd Webber even one joke vote.
Title: Re: Handel vs. Elgar death match
Post by: M forever on July 15, 2007, 01:45:47 PM
Yes, because that wouldn't even be funny. Some things are just not funny.
Title: Re: Handel vs. Elgar death match
Post by: PSmith08 on July 15, 2007, 01:57:44 PM
Quote from: edward on July 15, 2007, 09:10:33 AM
Exactly. I don't recall Handel writing an autobiography called Take it Like a Man.

Well, no. Imagine how much more interesting he would have been if he had, though.
Title: Re: Handel vs. Elgar death match
Post by: Mark on July 15, 2007, 02:00:43 PM
Quote from: Lethe on July 15, 2007, 01:39:41 PM
And nobody dared to give Andrew Lloyd Webber even one joke vote.

Although, if his father had been named in this poll, I might've voted for him. I've heard a few of his pieces (forget which - this was three years ago) which I really thought were quite charming.
Title: Re: Handel vs. Elgar death match
Post by: Tancata on July 15, 2007, 02:39:07 PM
Quote from: Lethe on July 15, 2007, 01:39:41 PM
And nobody dared to give Andrew Lloyd Webber even one joke vote.

I don't know about any of the other poll-crappers, but I thought it best not to divide the joke vote.
Title: Re: Handel vs. Elgar death match
Post by: Symphonien on July 15, 2007, 11:22:02 PM
Hmmm... Adès, Arnold, Bax, Benjamin, Birtwistle, Bliss, Britten, Delius, Ferneyhough, Finnissy, Finzi, Holst, Knussen, Maxwell Davies, Simpson, Tippett, Turnage, Vaughan Williams, Walton... Oh wait, none of these are in the poll.

And can someone please tell me who the f*** "Boy George" is?
Title: Re: Handel vs. Elgar death match
Post by: karlhenning on July 09, 2009, 07:48:52 AM
Quote from: Symphonien on July 15, 2007, 11:22:02 PM
And can someone please tell me who the f*** "Boy George" is?

The victor.
Title: Re: Handel vs. Elgar death match
Post by: Elgarian on July 09, 2009, 08:21:40 AM
Where the heck was this excavated from?

Since it was here begging for a click, I surprised myself by voting for Handel, which goes to show that we keep on learning: a couple of years ago I'd have voted for Elgar, in blissful ignorance. Elgar is still my best mate, of course. I hope.

However, in real life, and in real combat, Elgar would have made a tactical retreat, cycling to the top of the Worcestershire Beacon with Handel huffing and puffing up the slope far behind. Then, watching Handel coming up painfully below him, he would whistle Land of Hope and Glory and roll a large boulder down the hill shouting, 'Put that in yer Fireworks Suite, GF!'

I have run a computer simulation, so I know this for fact.
Title: Re: Handel vs. Elgar death match
Post by: Wanderer on July 09, 2009, 08:27:14 AM
I just have to note the sneaky move to include Ives into this supposedly English poll. I vote Elgar in protest.  $:)

PS. Is this archaeology day or something?
Title: Re: Handel vs. Elgar death match
Post by: DavidW on July 09, 2009, 08:31:43 AM
Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on July 09, 2009, 07:48:52 AM
The victor.

Karl you're making a habit of this lately. :D

(http://www.scattercaw.com/Stuff/thread_necromancer.jpg)

>:D
Title: Re: Handel vs. Elgar death match
Post by: karlhenning on July 09, 2009, 09:18:07 AM
Well, but I managed to amuse Elgarian & Tasos, David. I plead extenuating circumstances!

(And that M Forever could start engaging threads, couldn't he!  >:D )
Title: Re: Handel vs. Elgar death match
Post by: DavidW on July 09, 2009, 09:19:16 AM
Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on July 09, 2009, 09:18:07 AM
Well, but I managed to amuse Elgarian & Tasos, David. I plead extenuating circumstances!

(And that M Forever could start engaging threads, couldn't he!  >:D )

I would have loved to see M vs Newman!  That would be totally popcorn worthy.
Title: Re: Handel vs. Elgar death match
Post by: karlhenning on July 09, 2009, 09:19:43 AM
Quote from: DavidW on July 09, 2009, 09:19:16 AM
I would have loved to see M vs Newman!  That would be totally popcorn worthy.

Agreed!

. . . and . . . the poll is alive! . . . Boy George has fallen behind late-rallying Handel . . . .
Title: Re: Handel vs. Elgar death match
Post by: Elgarian on July 09, 2009, 09:24:52 AM
Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on July 09, 2009, 09:18:07 AM
Well, but I managed to amuse Elgarian & Tasos, David. I plead extenuating circumstances!

OK, OK. I confess I paid him a handsome bribe to reopen this old thread.
Title: Re: Handel vs. Elgar death match
Post by: karlhenning on July 09, 2009, 09:33:04 AM
Knew I could count on you!
Title: Re: Handel vs. Elgar death match
Post by: DavidW on July 09, 2009, 09:34:55 AM
Quote from: Elgarian on July 09, 2009, 09:24:52 AM
OK, OK. I confess I paid him a handsome bribe to reopen this old thread.

If the bribe was a Boy George cd, then I feel sorry for Karl. ;D
Title: Re: Handel vs. Elgar death match
Post by: karlhenning on July 09, 2009, 09:36:20 AM
Ah, but that wouldn't have been a handsome bribe, now, would it have?

(Do you really want to hurt me?)
Title: Re: Handel vs. Elgar death match
Post by: DavidW on July 09, 2009, 09:38:03 AM
Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on July 09, 2009, 09:36:20 AM
Ah, but that wouldn't have been a handsome bribe, now, would it have?

(Do you really want to hurt me?)

Indeed.

(http://photos.upi.com/story/t/3eb13e0636e4582c73649b5a74938d0e/Boy-George-sentenced-to-15-months-in-jail.jpg)

:o
Title: Re: Handel vs. Elgar death match
Post by: Elgarian on July 09, 2009, 09:39:50 AM
Stunned into silence by David W's graphic intervention .....
Title: Re: Handel vs. Elgar death match
Post by: karlhenning on July 09, 2009, 09:40:40 AM
Dude, please keep the images workplace-friendly   :o ;D 8)
Title: Re: Handel vs. Elgar death match
Post by: karlhenning on July 09, 2009, 09:41:41 AM
Quote from: Elgarian on July 09, 2009, 09:39:50 AM
Stunned into silence by David W's graphic intervention .....

Just wait 'til you see the photo he's got of Handel . . . .
Title: Re: Handel vs. Elgar death match
Post by: DavidW on July 09, 2009, 09:43:37 AM
Quote from: Elgarian on July 09, 2009, 09:39:50 AM
Stunned into silence by David W's graphic intervention .....

You know what Boy George does need an intervention!  Boy George we're here to tell you that the 80s are over, people don't dress like that anymore, not even for shock value!  It no longer elicits endless frenzied reactions... $:)
Title: Re: Handel vs. Elgar death match
Post by: karlhenning on July 09, 2009, 09:44:22 AM
Quote from: DavidW on July 09, 2009, 09:43:37 AM
. . .  It no longer elicits endless frenzied reactions... $:)

Hah!
Title: Re: Handel vs. Elgar death match
Post by: Elgarian on July 09, 2009, 11:48:18 AM
Quote from: DavidW on July 09, 2009, 09:43:37 AM
It no longer elicits endless frenzied reactions... $:)

Yes it DOES!                         Yes it DOES!                                Yes it DOES!
                                 
                      Yes it DOES!                                 Yes it DOES!
Title: Re: Handel vs. Elgar death match
Post by: Elgarian on July 09, 2009, 11:56:14 AM
Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on July 09, 2009, 09:41:41 AM
Just wait 'til you see the photo he's got of Handel . . . .

It's the photo of Elgar he might have that really worries me.
Title: Re: Handel vs. Elgar death match
Post by: karlhenning on July 09, 2009, 12:05:55 PM
Oh, don't even go there.
Title: Re: Handel vs. Elgar death match
Post by: Elgarian on July 09, 2009, 01:12:50 PM
Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on July 09, 2009, 12:05:55 PM
Oh, don't even go there.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v82/Alan_/elgarcaricaturegrey.jpg)

Title: Re: Handel vs. Elgar death match
Post by: karlhenning on July 10, 2009, 03:13:53 AM
E - D - Wuh
A - R - D
E - L - G - A - R
Title: Re: Handel vs. Elgar death match
Post by: karlhenning on July 10, 2009, 03:14:12 AM
(Coincidence?)
Title: Re: Handel vs. Elgar death match
Post by: Elgarian on July 10, 2009, 04:25:21 AM
Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on July 10, 2009, 03:14:12 AM
(Coincidence?)

Ahem.

Karl, I suppose it will be blindingly obvious when I see it ...

but ...

will you give me a hint what the heck it's about?
Title: Re: Handel vs. Elgar death match
Post by: karlhenning on July 10, 2009, 04:50:05 AM
Mickey, six letters.

Edward, six letters.
Title: Re: Handel vs. Elgar death match
Post by: karlhenning on July 10, 2009, 04:51:08 AM
Mouse, five letters.

Elgar, five letters.
Title: Re: Handel vs. Elgar death match
Post by: karlhenning on July 10, 2009, 04:53:21 AM
As for the connection, that was suggested by the footwear and gloves featured in your peculiar . . . picture (http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,2086.msg330853.html#msg330853).
Title: Re: Handel vs. Elgar death match
Post by: Elgarian on July 10, 2009, 08:14:36 AM
M - I - C

K - E - Y

M - O - U - S -E

Should I be seeing something here? (Gloves? Footwear?)
Should I jump over this nearby cliff if I don't?
Title: Re: Handel vs. Elgar death match
Post by: karlhenning on July 10, 2009, 08:15:54 AM
No, under no circumstances should there be vaulting over cliffs.
Title: Re: Handel vs. Elgar death match
Post by: Elgarian on July 10, 2009, 12:24:30 PM
Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah! Yes, I see. Elgar as Mickey Mouse. Yes indeed. Leading from our previous interchange, I was trying to show my worst nightmare of the kind of image DavidW might have up his sleeve. And you were basically telling me that you'd seen that, viz: "Elgar as Mickey Mouse". But I didn't realise you were merely telling me that you'd recognised the Michel Souris-ness of my chosen torso....

Next, time, shall we try discussing something simpler, like applying General Relativity to 10-body planetary systems? Or analysing the spangularity coefficient of double-edged bubblegriffs?
Title: Re: Handel vs. Elgar death match
Post by: 71 dB on July 11, 2009, 12:15:37 AM
After all this Disney nonsense I tell my opinion:

Elgar > J. S. Bach > Handel > everybody else

That's my opinion. Nobody can deny it. 0:)
Title: Re: Handel vs. Elgar death match
Post by: Elgarian on July 11, 2009, 12:21:31 AM
Quote from: 71 dB on July 11, 2009, 12:15:37 AM
After all this Disney nonsense

I can't be certain of course, but I think Elgar would have enjoyed the nonsense, being fond of his 'japes'.
Title: Re: Handel vs. Elgar death match
Post by: 71 dB on July 11, 2009, 12:29:42 AM
Quote from: Elgarian on July 11, 2009, 12:21:31 AM
I can't be certain of course, but I think Elgar would have enjoyed the nonsense, being fond of his 'japes'.

I wasn't referring to the "number-of-letters" thing but overall discussion. Some people just can't discuss about Elgar seriously. Handel vs. Elgar is an interesting issue and we don't need Boy George or Mickey Mouse here (all I have from Boy George is a DJ mix from 1995 on React label: "Poptartz, CD 3").
Title: Re: Handel vs. Elgar death match
Post by: knight66 on July 11, 2009, 12:40:29 AM
Does that mean you have no Mickey Mouse? Oh!

If you look at the origin of this thread, it has been full of japes from the start. There is another thread for the serious side of Elgar...as well you do know.

Mike
Title: Re: Handel vs. Elgar death match
Post by: Wanderer on July 11, 2009, 12:42:19 AM
Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on July 10, 2009, 04:51:08 AM
Mouse, five letters.

Elgar, five letters.

This can't be coincidence...
Title: Re: Handel vs. Elgar death match
Post by: knight66 on July 11, 2009, 01:00:18 AM
Elgar is an anagram of the name of a horse, not a mouse! Remember the Ken Russell film? All those white horses running slowly round fields...that proves it.

He never actually existed, his music has been written by a number of little known composers who banded together to give the music a 'brand.' Who is fooled into thinking that the same person penned the wonderful Gerontius as wrote that dreck 'The Kingdom?'

So, I can now reveal, the name was produced as an anagram of Glaer, a mythical horse who was ridden by Norse gods.

I rest my case.

Mike

Title: Re: Handel vs. Elgar death match
Post by: Elgarian on July 11, 2009, 01:17:14 AM
Quote from: knight on July 11, 2009, 01:00:18 AM
So, I can now reveal, the name was produced as an anagram of Glaer, a mythical horse who was ridden by Norse gods.

Well you've almost convinced me, Mike. But I subscribe to the idea that 'Elgar' was a pseudonym used by the reigning monarch of the day; so Queen Victoria composed Enigma, George V the Coronation Ode, and so on. 'Elgar' is an anagram of 'Regal' you see. Obvious once you spot it.
Title: Re: Handel vs. Elgar death match
Post by: 71 dB on July 11, 2009, 01:24:46 AM
Quote from: knight on July 11, 2009, 12:40:29 AM
Does that mean you have no Mickey Mouse? Oh!

Yes, it means.

Quote from: knight on July 11, 2009, 12:40:29 AMIf you look at the origin of this thread, it has been full of japes from the start. There is another thread for the serious side of Elgar...as well you do know.

Mike

I can live with that. Right now I am too tired for japes.

Quote from: Wanderer on July 11, 2009, 12:42:19 AM
This can't be coincidence...

Fauré, Finze, Henze, Haydn, Danzi, Fasch, Hasse, Lully, Dupré, Glass, Benda, Weiss, Torke, Gluck, Satie, Bizet, Ravel, Grieg, Parry, Falla, Ziani, Gross, Pezel, Rossi,  White, Stuck, Senna, Geist, Biber, Bliss, Boyce, Brian, Brusa, Bruch, Catan, Dufay, Field, Foass, Fossa, Fukai, Fuchs, Grofé, Hagen, Harty, Helps, Holst, Ibert, Isasi, Klami, Kilar, Krebs, Kraus, Lauro, Lawes, Lehár, Lentz, Linde, Liszt, Loewe, Mason, McKay, Mertz, Milán, Novák, Nyman, Orbon, Mundy, Payne, Perti, Ponce, Reger, Riley, Rinck, Roman, Rorem, Serra, Serly, Spohr, Sousa, Still, Suppé, Tower, Verdi, Visée, Weber, Weill, Widor, Weyse, Ysaÿe, Eberl, Fesca, Gallo, Gebel,...
Title: Re: Handel vs. Elgar death match
Post by: 71 dB on July 11, 2009, 01:32:35 AM
Quote from: Elgarian on July 11, 2009, 01:17:14 AM'Elgar' is an anagram of 'Regal' you see.

(http://img268.imageshack.us/img268/7978/williamregalentrance2cr.jpg) (http://img268.imageshack.us/i/williamregalentrance2cr.jpg/)

(William) Regal surrounded by vibrational fields.
Title: Re: Mickey vs. Elgar death match
Post by: karlhenning on July 11, 2009, 04:58:23 AM
Quote from: 71 dB on July 11, 2009, 12:29:42 AM
Some people just can't discuss about Elgar seriously.

On the other hand, Poju . . .

Quote from: 71 dB on July 11, 2009, 01:24:46 AM
Fauré, Finze, Henze, Haydn, Danzi, Fasch, Hasse, Lully, Dupré, Glass, Benda, Weiss, Torke, Gluck, Satie, Bizet, Ravel, Grieg, Parry, Falla, Ziani, Gross, Pezel, Rossi,  White, Stuck, Senna, Geist, Biber, Bliss, Boyce, Brian, Brusa, Bruch, Catan, Dufay, Field, Foass, Fossa, Fukai, Fuchs, Grofé, Hagen, Harty, Helps, Holst, Ibert, Isasi, Klami, Kilar, Krebs, Kraus, Lauro, Lawes, Lehár, Lentz, Linde, Liszt, Loewe, Mason, McKay, Mertz, Milán, Novák, Nyman, Orbon, Mundy, Payne, Perti, Ponce, Reger, Riley, Rinck, Roman, Rorem, Serra, Serly, Spohr, Sousa, Still, Suppé, Tower, Verdi, Visée, Weber, Weill, Widor, Weyse, Ysaÿe, Eberl, Fesca, Gallo, Gebel,...

To take some things seriously is a fundamental misconstruction of the 'vibrational fields'.
Title: Re: Handel vs. Elgar death match
Post by: Sergeant Rock on July 11, 2009, 05:53:30 AM
Quote from: 71 dB on July 11, 2009, 01:32:35 AM
(William) Regal surrounded by vibrational fields.

;D :D ;D

Sarge
Title: Re: Mickey vs. Elgar death match
Post by: 71 dB on July 11, 2009, 06:21:06 AM
Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on July 11, 2009, 04:58:23 AM
On the other hand, Poju . . .

To take some things seriously is a fundamental misconstruction of the 'vibrational fields'.

Maybe you missed it but the change came when I was told this is not a serious thread.  :P
Title: Re: Handel vs. Elgar death match
Post by: knight66 on July 11, 2009, 07:36:00 AM
Elgarian, I do like your idea of Queenie being Elgar. But I fear the idea breaks down for compositions post 1901.

Or is there evidence that those were written well before but not published until: 
'Dust to dust and ashes to ashes
into eternity the old Queen dashes.'

Mike
Title: Re: Handel vs. Elgar death match
Post by: Elgarian on July 11, 2009, 07:49:17 AM
Quote from: knight on July 11, 2009, 07:36:00 AM
Or is there evidence that those were written well before but not published until: 
'Dust to dust and ashes to ashes
into eternity the old Queen dashes.'

If there isn't, we'll make some up.
Title: Re: Handel vs. Elgar death match
Post by: knight66 on July 11, 2009, 09:11:21 AM
Quote from: Elgarian on July 11, 2009, 07:49:17 AM
If there isn't, we'll make some up.

I do believe that is now the way of the world. If the fakes have to be in German, I am sorry, I can't help, there may be someone else on the site you can turn to. But if you want King's English....Eric's novel concept...I am your man.

Mike
Title: Re: Handel vs. Elgar death match
Post by: Elgarian on July 11, 2009, 12:32:22 PM
Quote from: knight on July 11, 2009, 09:11:21 AM
I do believe that is now the way of the world.

Speaking of the way of the world, I see Boy George has now trumped all comers.
Title: Re: Handel vs. Elgar death match
Post by: knight66 on July 11, 2009, 12:39:06 PM
He has been getting his friends to vote, also claiming all the hanging chads and chavs. Options not open right now to Elgar or Handel.

Mike
Title: Re: Handel vs. Elgar death match
Post by: karlhenning on July 13, 2009, 07:38:38 AM
Lord knows Handel's chads will never dangle again . . . .