GMG Classical Music Forum

Interested to know if anyone else here has listened to a significant amount of recent music, & what their thoughts were on composers to listen for (working in any style—acoustic or electric, composed or improvised or sound art, traditionalist or avant-garde)

By "contemporary" a good benchmark for the kind of thing i mean is composers under 40... (i.e. born 1972 or later) ...or, since age doesn't necessarily correlate with compositional experience, those whose first compositions appeared after 1990. i think that gives us a wide enough margin, without treading into more heavily explored & analysed territory.

this is mostly what i've been listening to over the last year or so, so i've got plenty of names, but will hold off on flooding the thread with them until i have things to say about each one

I spend most of my time listening to music from the last 15 or 20 years.

My thought is that people should listen to everything.

But if you listened to Mike Boyd or Cristina Kasem or Anna Clyne or Natasha Barrett or Ludger Brümmer or eRikm or Lyn Goeringer or Francisco Meirino, then you'd be listening to a few* of my favorites.

Your mileage may vary.

So it's back to "listen to everything."

*Way way way way way too few.

I have an entire thread dedicated to them:

http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,17509.0.html

only 2 replies? hmm. i fear this is somewhat overly well-trodden territory.

some guy, i've heard some Barrett, which was fairly interesting although in some respects rather conventional—mostly in terms of sound sources. haven't given her more than a rather cursory look though, due in part to the problems with sound art on record. nor have i ever actually seen any of her installations, so i'm probably just missing something. will check out some of the others.

i'll just go one person at a time i think. someone i've been listening to a lot of lately is Vanessa Rossetto (http://www.musicappreciationrecs.com/), mostly active in the free improvisation/electroacoustic scenes. her stuff varies a bit in content—microtonal string improvisations, field recordings, electronic "collages"—but always seems to have a compelling sense of "direction" that keeps me listening all the way through, & is largely free of the clichés of those genres. there are a number of aspects that remind me of the music of Horațiu Rădulescu, at least in terms of pure sound (although in terms of tradition & style he is worlds away). i may write a more detailed analysis at some point.

New name for me.

So thanks!! ;D

(I'm listening to her tracks on sound cloud right now.)

dyn, you might check the link in Philo's post right before yours, if you haven't yet; it's pretty extensive and there are lots of nifty performance clips...plus, you get to hear a bunch of grumbling from the Old Guard!   8)
I am all for new threads, but that one seems like a great hub for these kinds of branches and metastases.

Natasha Barrett and Vanessa Rosetto are terrific composers, and VR in particular is way, way outside the staid academic electroacoustic glove-controller ghetto.  She is punk as fuck!

EDIT: your introduction post lists lots of excellent names who I like listening to; my recent tastes are pretty conservative (ARGUABLY), in terms of what I happen to be investigating and taking pleasure in; but there is no doubt that I still find great enjoyment in music of the past ~50 years and even the past ~10, though I am out of the loop with new developments, after burning out on a lot of concrète, noise, elecxtroacoustic improvised musics etc.  (I know I will find my way back to those again, but it was mainly a matter of too-much-too-fast-too-soon).  I like your tactile-emotional emphasis (agenda? priority?) in listening and cathecting with music; I can relate to that.  I usually desire something more or other than merely "interesting", which becomes a cold category for me when it stands alone.  (Darmstadt scientism deserved its demise, even though it produced, for me, an awful lot of challenging and, um, interesting music.)

Quote from: Octave on December 26, 2012, 10:35:57 PM
dyn, you might check the link in Philo's post right before yours, if you haven't yet; it's pretty extensive and there are lots of nifty performance clips...plus, you get to hear a bunch of grumbling from the Old Guard!   8)
I am all for new threads, but that one seems like a great hub for these kinds of branches and metastases.

Natasha Barrett and Vanessa Rosetto are terrific composers, and VR in particular is way, way outside the staid academic electroacoustic glove-controller ghetto.  She is punk as fuck!

EDIT: your introduction post lists lots of excellent names who I like listening to; my recent tastes are pretty conservative (ARGUABLY), in terms of what I happen to be investigating and taking pleasure in; but there is no doubt that I still find great enjoyment in music of the past ~50 years and even the past ~10, though I am out of the loop with new developments, after burning out on a lot of concrète, noise, elecxtroacoustic improvised musics etc.  (I know I will find my way back to those again, but it was mainly a matter of too-much-too-fast-too-soon).  I like your tactile-emotional emphasis (agenda? priority?) in listening and cathecting with music; I can relate to that.  I usually desire something more or other than merely "interesting", which becomes a cold category for me when it stands alone.  (Darmstadt scientism deserved its demise, even though it produced, for me, an awful lot of challenging and, um, interesting music.)

that introduction post was actually originally in "Let's get to know each other's tastes in music" but yes. i suppose what i am most excited about right now is the Lachenmann-and-onwards "performative" tradition, for lack of a better name—formed by the intersection of a critical view of the western concert music tradition and the performance-related emphasis of the experimental tradition. i think that's at least partly because the physical nature of performance has always been my compositional inspiration, yet only recently did i start actually returning to it rather than composing within the confines of an essentially literate tradition (largely due to a solid Beethoven upbringing, already alluded to elsewhere, combined with the fact that i myself tend to lose interest in actually practicing instruments after a year or two)

i've been meaning to give Trade Winds a more detailed listen although i don't know if it's the best place to start with NB; i got the album from the library after liking what i heard from her on another disk of norwegian electroacoustic music (there was also stuff by maja sk raktje, cecilie ore, jon øyvind ness & some other people who were also completely unknown to me before) but never really sat down to hear the whole thing through

haven't checked out that thread due to youtube being blocked on this internet connection for some reason... (probably bandwidth restrictions of some kind)

Two news names that entered my path, this year, even meeting one and having Twitter contactc with the other, both concentrate on writing very attractive choral music. They are Ēriks Ešenvalds (Latvia, 1977) and Tarik O'Regan (UK, 1978). Their most succesful albums:
    (http://www.sainsburysentertainment.co.uk/media/ProductImage/largeImage/ProductImage-7015897.jpg) (http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41XG9LIdCBL._SL500_AA300_.jpg)

I am all for this thread!  It would be no good to boil down all contemporary music threads to one, plus this will give me added incentive to listen to more recent work instead of refining my traditional listening down to the same dozen composers' masterpieces over and over and over and over and over. 

Permit me to be scanty with description, this first couple-few posts.  Also forgive stupid glibness on my part.

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51h8XBg3SFL._SL500_AA300_.jpg)
Heinz Holliger: SCARDANELLI-ZYKLUS (ECM New Series, 2cd)

A chilly, large work made of smaller pieces, making use of solo flute, tape, small orchestra, choir.  Partakes very much of the post-late-Nono, post-Beckett, post-Lachenmann, post-Feldman, post-Cioran zeitgeist; and of course, Hölderlin.  (For those who decide to buy it from Amazon US: they seem to have two different product pages for this, in case you are a dealhunting creature like myself.  FYI.)  There is also Holliger's SCNHEEWITTCHEN ~opera, which I have been meaning to revisit for several years.

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51MBZxj-6RL._SS400_.jpg)
Salvatore Sciarrino: ORCHESTRAL WORKS (Kairos, 3cd)

A generous selection of works from 1974-2005.  If you only wish to listen to one recording/work, then I vote for LO SPAZIO INVERSO (also Kairos); but I think that one might not be in print anymore; it is worth tracking down!  Olivia Block (an interesting younger tape composer) said of LSI:

QuoteThis is one of the only composers who can shape an an ensemble into a series of unified sculpural sound gestures. The focus is almost entirely on timbre; he clearly pays attention to the spaces between gestures. He achieves remarkable delicacy in his use of extended techniques, particularly with the wind instruments. The music sounds spontaneous, improvised despite the fact that it is all precisely scored.

(from her Dusted 'Listed' feature (http://www.dustedmagazine.com/features/829))
and I think that is a fair and fairly vague description of what I like about many of the pieces on the 3cd set, which is highly recommended to anyone who likes the late-Nono thing on disc.

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51%2BvWKsXyrL._SL500_AA300_.jpg)
Aribert Reimann: LEAR (DG, 2cd)

Intense Dietrich Fischer-Dieskau.  I think Alex Ross might recently have listed this performance as a personal benchmark of DFD's singing life?  Cannot remember exactly.  It is immense.  Unfortunately also out of print, but not necessarily terribly expensive.

Also I know that I am not respecting the contemporaneity/youth rule very well.  Sorry!  My interests are so diffuse, I end up relying on stars with momentum, though I know this problematic.  To be corrected soon enough.

There aren't too many Contemporary composers I enjoy, but one that has made a positive impression on me is Magnus Lindberg. I love this man's music. His music seems to get better and better each time a new work is recorded or premiered. Here are a few favorite recordings:

(http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B0031O7V6I.01.L.jpg) (http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B000ARHNHG.01.L.jpg)

(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_Sc_lT2loQ1s/TQjec-yM5JI/AAAAAAAAAHo/0lA5DnsSE_A/s1600/Batiashvili.jpg) (http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B001HADFBS.01.L.jpg)

(http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B00020HEQG.01.L.jpg)

Graffiti and the Violin Concerto are works of Lindberg's that have made greatest impression on me. He really has become a lyrical composer that seems to have become less and less interested in Xenakis-type aural assaults.

Golijov, Henning, Gubaidulina, Ann Southam (Canadian).  John Estacio. 

Penderecki!!

(* blushes *)

Quote from: Mirror Image on December 27, 2012, 07:32:41 AM
There aren't too many Contemporary composers I enjoy

Then perhaps this is not the thread for you.

Quote from: Mirror Image on December 27, 2012, 07:32:41 AMXenakis-type aural assaults.

Language.

(One man's assault is another man's exhilaration.)

Quote from: James on December 27, 2012, 01:24:12 PM
A composer elevates themselves and breaks-through on a international scale and becomes world-renowned because of the work they create, which is recognized as exceptional and isolated (commissioned, performed & studied abroad by top institutions, players, ensembles .. recorded by premiere labels, receiving top awards etc), sends waves through the music world .. this is generally why certain names surface (& remain over time), become fundamental to the history of the art's development on a number of levels; cultural, musical, technological .. can be a composition or a series of compositions .. any specific compositions of the western classical lineage created by younger composers thus far listed that in turn elevate the art form of composing to it's highest level, get favourable 'expert' endorsement, and represent today's music making at it's finest? Scouring top record labels/lines of contemporary classical music may be of help .. but we all live busy lives. Who are the preeminent contemporary classical composers born 1972 onward .. more importantly - the compositions that clearly illustrate why. (I can think of a few names, but few works) So for those of you who are so immersed // please enlighten us and list the top compositions/recordings so that we can home in on this stuff and sample it for ourselves .. that would make this thread useful.

Amen.

"All who know of, and believe in, the power of music to sooner or later bring home its intended communication to its attentive listeners will modestly refrain from presuming to support the powerful by mere repetition, to strengthen the strong by needless duplication. Rather they will direct their searching minds to find... musical sound and musical organization hitherto unheard of."

Herbert Brün 1964

Quote from: Mirror Image on December 27, 2012, 07:32:41 AM
There aren't too many Contemporary composers I enjoy, but one that has made a positive impression on me is Magnus Lindberg. I love this man's music. His music seems to get better and better each time a new work is recorded or premiered. Here are a few favorite recordings:

i went through a Lindberg "phase" a few years back & listened to a lot of his stuff from naxos. trailed off because it started to sound like he was basically writing the same piece over and over again. that said there are a few of his pieces that still hold up for me, Tendenza for instance

Quote from: James on December 27, 2012, 01:24:12 PM
A composer elevates themselves and breaks-through on a international scale and becomes world-renowned because of the work they create, which is recognized as exceptional and isolated (commissioned, performed & studied abroad by top institutions, players, ensembles .. recorded by premiere labels, receiving top awards etc),

composers to whom this sort of thing happens have basically been "discovered" already, rather defeating the point of the thread. as a rule, the big awards, recording labels, etc, go for people who've already come into the spotlight; plenty of really good music from younger composers just hasn't come to light yet due to never receiving a high quality performance, being played at out-of-the-way venues, released in "limited edition" recordings that run out quickly, et cetera—or because those composers simply haven't written that much music yet.

Quoteany specific compositions of the western classical lineage created by younger composers thus far listed that in turn elevate the art form of composing to it's highest level

what is the "highest level" of composing? can compositions even be compared on a one-dimensional scale of low to high when there are so many different compositional traditions & strands with different aims and criteria of quality? etc

Quote from: James on December 27, 2012, 04:48:27 PM
beauty in music doesn't have to be stuff that's unheard of, not at all. History proves that time and time again.

why listen to the same few pieces over and over again? do you get nothing from discovering a piece as it goes?

Quote from: dyn on December 27, 2012, 05:06:25 PM
i went through a Lindberg "phase" a few years back & listened to a lot of his stuff from naxos. trailed off because it started to sound like he was basically writing the same piece over and over again. that said there are a few of his pieces that still hold up for me, Tendenza for instance

I don't listen to much Contemporary music at all, but Lindberg's music did catch my ear, but, then again, I avoid new classical music like the plague anyway.

Quote from: Mirror Image on December 27, 2012, 05:26:36 PM
I avoid new classical music like the plague anyway.

well, thanks for your contribution to a thread all about new classical music......

Quote from: dyn on December 27, 2012, 05:39:31 PM
well, thanks for your contribution to a thread all about new classical music......

No problem.

"Made an impression" might be a bit strong; here's a few that more or less caught my attention

[asin]B005Q132NK[/asin]

[asin]B00004TVJ6[/asin]

[asin]B002CRJWTY[/asin]

[asin]B0034PWL96[/asin]

[asin]B002QEXN7U[/asin]

A couple more

[asin]B00009W8M3[/asin]

[asin]B002D1A982[/asin]

This is a good compilation of a lot of composers working in New York - styles range pretty wide; much of it I like.  Stylistically broad, some sounding almost jazzlike.

[asin]B003X859J8[/asin]

Quote from: James on December 27, 2012, 05:48:05 PM
ok, so simply list the ones you know about and their best work that makes the case.

Amen squared.  Some Guy and dyn are you listening?

Quote from: Johnll on December 27, 2012, 06:21:16 PM
Amen squared.  Some Guy and dyn are you listening?

Yeah, I really don't see it happening though. There's been a lot of hot air blown through this thread already.

Liza Lim is probably my favorite of the contemporary composers. I really enjoy extended techniques when it comes to instruments. Although, not many of her compositions have been recorded, which is why Youtube is such a nice tool to have.

Out of discs that can be had, here are three that have impressed me:

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51Y-2Um%2BFsL._SL500_AA300_.jpg)
[asin]B000026ZJC[/asin]
[asin]B000000NYK[/asin]

Quote from: Mirror Image on December 27, 2012, 05:26:36 PM
I don't listen to much Contemporary music at all, but Lindberg's music did catch my ear, but, then again, I avoid new classical music like the plague anyway.

This is why I strongly disagree with Some Guy's assessment that this "isn't thread for you"; I'm potentially even more interested in younger or more recent composers that _do_ catch the ear of someone who is mostly antipathetic towards "New Music" etc etc.  It _can_ mean that the recent composer in question simply flatters the past in a way the listener can more easily recognize; but it can just as easily mean that there's material for the imagination in the enjoyed music that can be instructive to me in similar or sharply different ways.  Though I demur to Mirror Image's comment elsewhere (to the effect that there's no real need to listen to music from the later 20c onward, because the first half of the 20c is so full of great music), in a sense he is correct: there's an enormous amount of great music to hear from that little window of time, pending one's priorities.  Leaving that body of music does require a sacrifice, especially when/if one's free time for listening and study is severely rationed.  It's tragic. 

And, whatever, I'm glad MI mentioned Lindberg; as I happen to like his music quite a bit, myself, though all I know so far are that DG 20-21 disc with AURA, and the Ondine box set culled from (iiirc) the discs he mentioned in his post.  I want to hear more!

Also, it is not Some Guy's or dyn's duty to make a case for young composers.  That's an obnoxious demand, if that's what's being required, as it seems to be.  They (partisans of recent music) don't have to prove anything.  If those riding on the coattails of established tastes/composers---institutions, traditions at this point (Stockhausen was an institution well before the allegedly anti-establishment Sixties got off the ground)----aren't willing to do the work, it's not like the task falls to dyn to convince them.  "These kids today!"  grumble grumble grumble   Maybe we should just start wearing white suits and carrying on about astral travel etc.  Maybe that kind of authority is necrotic and should be put to rest.  Good night, Heidegger.   Good night, Godard.  Good night, Boulez.

It's your tone rather than the basic request (demand) that I object to.  It would be a reasonable request if it were requested like that: reasonably.  Instead, it's autopilot dismissal "that's not music!" (your reaction to the Otomo/Tetreault recording at the beginning of the thread Philo started) or "show me the money!" (your "request" here).  Neither reaction is unjustified; the problem is that they sound sooooo familiar.  Why bother with that Miles Davis quote, when he was blowing the raspberry at Beethovenians whose reaction to Stocky c. 1970 was virtually identical to your own reactions now?

A pretty famous avant-rock musician once said to me with a sigh, "We don't have a Stockhausen today...", with real wistfulness.  I was reminded of the biblical story (cautionary tale) of the people of Israel insisting that they be given a king.  "What's the rush?" came G-d's reply.  The supplication (actually demand) continued, and they got their wish, and oh boy what a mess.  I'm not especially fond of bible stories, but with cautionaries against the desire to be dominated in such ancient abundance, how could we will this fate upon ourselves again and again?  I would rather see the living failures of the living, than repeatedly burn offerings to the dead.  The greatness of the dead is well consolidated; they don't need our praise.  We choke on their greatness.

i'll have to respectfully disagree with you on the existence of "masterpieces" & the sorting of pieces into levels. i don't believe it's at all meaningful to say "this classical composition is better than this jazz composition" or even "this composition by elliott carter is better than this composition by helmut lachenmann". the different traditions of music have only one common ground—sound—and there is nothing intrinsic to sound that makes some sounds better than other sounds. each tradition has different aims, each composer is different, even each individual piece has its own sections of differing qualities which can make it difficult to call any one section unequivocally superior to any other. if i say "this is good" it's basically a shorter way of saying "i found this piece an immersive experience"

i'm not therefore going to give you a list of the top 10 pieces by the top 50 composers arranged in preferential order cos i'm just not that kind of girl. i will try to reference specific compositions when talking about composers i like & provide links where i can find them though. (can't speak for some guy, but i believe he's posted a number of youtube links in reference to composers he likes in previous threads, it's not like these contemporary music threads are nothing but talk)

James,

Are you simply looking for a list with explanations attached?

I don't think there's a short cut, since one person's list might be crap to the next person.  Also, doing the work yourself will expose you to a lot of music, some of which you will probably find worthwhile, and which no one else may suggest.

What I do is work from a list of 20th C. composers like this one (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_20th-century_classical_composers_by_birth_date) and then search for the composers on Spotify or MOG and create a playlist of the ones that interest me, even a little.  Then I go back and listen more closely.

Since the OP stipulated composers born after 1972, there are not many names on the list I linked.  It might be more productive to consider works written after 1972 as a more representative collection of contemporary music.

Quote from: sanantonio on December 28, 2012, 02:53:37 AM
Since the OP stipulated composers born after 1972....

Well, that lets me off.

Quote from: karlhenning on December 28, 2012, 03:50:38 AM
Well, that lets me off.

Which is why I think it would be more productive to concentrate on a work's creation rather than the composer's birth date.

Quote from: sanantonio on December 28, 2012, 04:48:12 AM
Which is why I think it would be more productive to concentrate on a work's creation rather than the composer's birth date.

I agree.  Contemporary 'living composers'.  Those were the ones I listed on the first page.  Makes no sense whatsoever to limit by year of birth.

How about any contemporary composer born after 2010?

Quote from: Octave on December 27, 2012, 09:05:57 PM
This is why I strongly disagree with Some Guy's assessment that this "isn't thread for you"; I'm potentially even more interested in younger or more recent composers that _do_ catch the ear of someone who is mostly antipathetic towards "New Music" etc etc.  It _can_ mean that the recent composer in question simply flatters the past in a way the listener can more easily recognize; but it can just as easily mean that there's material for the imagination in the enjoyed music that can be instructive to me in similar or sharply different ways.  Though I demur to Mirror Image's comment elsewhere (to the effect that there's no real need to listen to music from the later 20c onward, because the first half of the 20c is so full of great music), in a sense he is correct: there's an enormous amount of great music to hear from that little window of time, pending one's priorities.  Leaving that body of music does require a sacrifice, especially when/if one's free time for listening and study is severely rationed.  It's tragic. 

And, whatever, I'm glad MI mentioned Lindberg; as I happen to like his music quite a bit, myself, though all I know so far are that DG 20-21 disc with AURA, and the Ondine box set culled from (iiirc) the discs he mentioned in his post.  I want to hear more!

Thanks for this thoughtful post, Octave. I should also mention I love Part, Ligeti, John Adams, Dutilleux, Sculthorpe, Vine, Broadstock, Rautavaara, and Salonen. There was also a great recording on BIS of some orchestral works by Anders Hillborg that I enjoyed a lot. So I'm not completely ignorant of Contemporary music, it's just that I have to find some kind of access point in their music and these composers I mentioned have provided that for me.

Quote from: James on December 27, 2012, 11:26:51 PMdisagreeing doesn't change reality or erase history.

Neither do glib and empty assertions.

Quote from: James on December 27, 2012, 11:26:51 PMthe great historical figures & works that helped define the art of musical composition in the first place are there, the very foundations on which the tradition was elevated & built upon.

The figures and works that helped define the art of musical composition, those foundations of the tradition, are already themselves great? Really? How does that work? The tradition, as you put it, was developed in the nineteenth century. You can read nineteenth century documents, you can look at nineteenth century concert programs, you can even note what kinds of ensembles arise and how popular they become in the nineteenth century to see this idea of a tradition developing. And once it had developed, it was retro-fitted to the music of centuries past.

Looking back and looking forward are two different activities. A crucial reality that "the very foundations on which the tradition was elevated" ignores.

Those "great historical figures & works" somehow managed to exist without the awareness that they were great, of course. How does that work, d'you suppose? How does J.S. Bach, for instance, manage to write great works that are enduring monuments of musical perfection without even being aware that that's what he's doing? And of course the answer is that both the greatness and the enduring are things that happened after the writing. After the nineteenth century notion of greatness in music was firmly in place, however, composers have something other than musical ideas to deal with. They now have the idea of posterity to deal with. What are they doing, now, to ensure that they will endure into some distant then?

As a book like The Anxiety of Influence illustrates, this idea can have certain negative effects on creation.

Quote from: James on December 27, 2012, 11:26:51 PMcarter & lach are generally recognized as preeminent composers in the field of western contemporary classical composition

This "generally recognized" business is not as straightforward as you present it. Who's doing the recognizing? Lachenmann (or "lach" as you call him--friend of yours?) is hardly known at all in the US. He is never performed here, and his recordings vanish as soon as they appear. Kind of like Luc Ferrari, another "generally recognized...preeminent composer," as long as you're in Europe. Some little pockets here and there in the US. Nothing general. And curiously disconnected from any actual qualities of the music itself, whether general or not, hein?

"Generally recognized" applies to people like John Cage as well, whom you excoriate. So you don't even believe in it yourself. The anonymous "generally recognized" is not a generally agreed upon category--James has complete control over who gets to be so designated. ;)

Quote from: James on December 27, 2012, 11:26:51 PMboth [Carter and Lachenmann] have created exceptional things, and we can enjoy them now. of their generation(s) they obviously were better at it than a lot of other people and their names have remained, their work (composition) elevated their status internationally, when we look back on classical music history and on this period, and the compositions that helped define it, at least a few of their works (carter & lach) will be there standing.

Really. Looking back and looking forward are two different activities, not two aspects of the same activity. And looking back is exactly what we cannot do. (The literal, actual we--you and I and our colleagues--not the "all of humanity past and future 'we'" that is used to assert things about the future as confidently as looking at things from the past.)

It's difficult, too, to get past the relentless circularity of "great work" resulting in "status" and "status" being the sign of the "great work."

Quote from: James on December 27, 2012, 11:26:51 PMI was just asking for a brief list of stuff here in this thread, i was hoping to tap into some great stuff maybe.
and in my opinion a lot of these kind-of threads are a lot of double talk .. and the little 'music' that's presented, is well ... :(

How delightful of you to have revealed your true agenda here. You are not just hoping to tap into some great stuff; you are hoping for suggestions that you can reject for not meeting your standards of greatness.

Charming.

It is much more entertaining as well as much more valuable to listen to music. In fact, I do believe that I have just wasted a half an hour of time I could have spent listening to music, time that I will never get back. And for what? To rebut the circular deliriums of one, single person.

Ack! Now who's the crazy one? :-[

Quote from: James on December 27, 2012, 11:49:24 PM
No explanations necessary, what you did earlier up in thread is fine. Artist, work, recording. Good enough. Thanks.

Cool. You're a really bright cat and know more about music than I could possibly imagine. I only have my ears and what they like. I say trust your judgment. We only live so long and there's plenty to listen to.

Thomas Ades, born 1970 (sorry.....you are too OLD!)  ;D

Quote from: some guy on December 28, 2012, 11:40:08 AM
Neither do glib and empty assertions.
The figures and works that helped define the art of musical composition, those foundations of the tradition, are already themselves great? Really? How does that work? The tradition, as you put it, was developed in the nineteenth century. You can read nineteenth century documents, you can look at nineteenth century concert programs, you can even note what kinds of ensembles arise and how popular they become in the nineteenth century to see this idea of a tradition developing. And once it had developed, it was retro-fitted to the music of centuries past.

Looking back and looking forward are two different activities. A crucial reality that "the very foundations on which the tradition was elevated" ignores.

Those "great historical figures & works" somehow managed to exist without the awareness that they were great, of course. How does that work, d'you suppose? How does J.S. Bach, for instance, manage to write great works that are enduring monuments of musical perfection without even being aware that that's what he's doing? And of course the answer is that both the greatness and the enduring are things that happened after the writing. After the nineteenth century notion of greatness in music was firmly in place, however, composers have something other than musical ideas to deal with. They now have the idea of posterity to deal with. What are they doing, now, to ensure that they will endure into some distant then?

As a book like The Anxiety of Influence illustrates, this idea can have certain negative effects on creation.
This "generally recognized" business is not as straightforward as you present it. Who's doing the recognizing? Lachenmann (or "lach" as you call him--friend of yours?) is hardly known at all in the US. He is never performed here, and his recordings vanish as soon as they appear. Kind of like Luc Ferrari, another "generally recognized...preeminent composer," as long as you're in Europe. Some little pockets here and there in the US. Nothing general. And curiously disconnected from any actual qualities of the music itself, whether general or not, hein?

"Generally recognized" applies to people like John Cage as well, whom you excoriate. So you don't even believe in it yourself. The anonymous "generally recognized" is not a generally agreed upon category--James has complete control over who gets to be so designated. ;)
Really. Looking back and looking forward are two different activities, not two aspects of the same activity. And looking back is exactly what we cannot do. (The literal, actual we--you and I and our colleagues--not the "all of humanity past and future 'we'" that is used to assert things about the future as confidently as looking at things from the past.)

It's difficult, too, to get past the relentless circularity of "great work" resulting in "status" and "status" being the sign of the "great work."
How delightful of you to have revealed your true agenda here. You are not just hoping to tap into some great stuff; you are hoping for suggestions that you can reject for not meeting your standards of greatness.

Charming.

It is much more entertaining as well as much more valuable to listen to music. In fact, I do believe that I have just wasted a half an hour of time I could have spent listening to music, time that I will never get back. And for what? To rebut the circular deliriums of one, single person.

Ack! Now who's the crazy one? :-[

Instead of spending hours on communicating all this attitude would it not have been easier and more productive to music-up. All James asked for is some composers/recordings from you as the self proclaimed expert on music for the past 15 yrs. Take a page out of James's book as an example. I like some of Stockhausen but I am sure James is aware he is not everyone's favorite composer. Still he is willing to stick his neck out and champion him through a long thread most of which is his posts. I do admire that. No one is asking you to do the same, but a few names/recordings is a pretty reasonable request in light of the attitude. If you are afraid to music-up it is your choice! 

Hahahaha, no sense of history, eh John?

Not only that, no sense of what's already happened on this not very long yet thread.

Heigh ho.

Quote from: some guy on December 28, 2012, 05:41:08 PM
Hahahaha, no sense of history, eh John?

Not only that, no sense of what's already happened on this not very long yet thread.

Heigh ho.

Music-up all your silly stuff is to no avail.

John, not sure what your thing is.

But let me as briefly as possible outline the situation as I see it.

A lot of people, James among them, want to apply the principle of greatness to new music. Since greatness is principally (I think solely) a matter of judgment over time, it's difficult to get any consensus about music that hasn't been around all that long. Bach, long enough. Beethoven, long enough. Brümmer, um, not long enough.

Not long enough for consensus; long enough for my own listening. I have consistently positive experiences with Brümmer. I have consistently positive experiences with Merzbow and Marchetti and eRikm, too.*

But James does not believe that individual experience has any validity. Well, maybe his own. :P But his posts constantly refer to consensus. Only board-certified works are worth listening to. Only board-certified works are worth talking about. But I only have my own two ears to listen with. These are not ears that James has any respect for, but so what? I'm not James. So the quality of my listening experiences depend in no wise on James' approbation. Or on the conclusions of consensus.

You are of course free to take James' requests for examples at face value. I can not. I have too long a history of his arrogant dismissals of anything I recommend to anyone for any reason. I also, more importantly, do not buy into James' simple, two-dimensional view of quality, with the variety of heterogeneous works (from different eras) collapsed into simple ranked ordered lists. I think the reality is much more complex, with more dimensions (at least one more). I see value as a function of experience and engagement, not as a property of pieces of music (or of works of art of any kind). So his requests for "great works" might seem simple and straightforward to you. To me they seem like traps. i'm being asked to buy into his world view and then to supply works that fit his criteria.

But I reject both the world view and the criteria. Simple as that.

*I also don't need consistently positive experiences. In fact, if you listen like I do, as function of exploration, then you are constantly hearing things that you don't like. Which is fine. I like to explore, I like to discover, I like to expand my own personal tastes. And if I can help anyone else expand similarly, I'm always glad to do that. I'm not going to do that by playing into anyone's desire for "greatness," however.

I was not under the impression that dyn was rabid-serious about the *1972 criterion; let's not get hung up on that.  I think that was suggested as a way of emphasizing work that was necessarily so new that part of the interest was in seeing an approach or even aesthetic come together.  Even my own initial suggestions (from very recent listening) are Old White Guys.

BTW, is it okay to mention non-instrumental "tape music" work in this thread?  If I turn back the clock a little, there are lots of composers who do this kind of work who I used to be crazy about, a couple of whom I'm going to be revisiting this coming weekend+.  Musique concrète and electronic music, but usually not coming from the world of rock or pop music.  I could suggest a number of things there, from the past ~10-15 years; though I don't think many of them use traditional instruments or notation at all.

Quote from: Octave on December 28, 2012, 08:35:02 PMMusique concrète and electronic music, but usually not coming from the world of rock or pop music.  I could suggest a number of things there, from the past ~10-15 years; though I don't think many of them use traditional instruments or notation at all.

The thread is what you will... However, it could be worthwhile exploring other threads from this forum that cover some of that ground. A quick search revealed the following:

http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,12343.0.html
http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,17495.0.html
http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,7587.0.html
http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,21171.0.html

Cheers, petrarch

Quote from: James on December 29, 2012, 01:47:38 PM
Thanks .. I didn't even bother reading some guy's last posts, I'm just too busy! At a quick glance I see no compositions listed etc .. A nice convenient list from someone who claims they're versed in it (like Mike) .. you think it wouldn't be much of a task at all, he'd have the know-how and ear to pick up on the really good stuff and present it, and it  would help steer us all curious people in the right direction perhaps - but unfortunately that simple request doesn't seem to be met! All his years of 'experience' gone to waste perhaps? But it's nothing new .. I've met many people who claim or act like they're authorities on something but aren't even close, maybe that's the case here too. Shame.

Not too busy to make snarky remarks about the posts you haven't read, though, eh? This reminds me of the music critic who put in a scathing review of a piece, all unaware that that piece had been pulled from the program.

Not that reading my posts would make any difference. James goes into the situation with his mind already made up.

Shame indeed!

Karl Henning and Luke Ottevanger have made quite an impression on me throughout the years here at GMG, and so has Paul Nauert, although I have only heard his one composition Episodes and Elegies.

Lera Auerbach, mentioned earlier, has a work called Icarus which impressed me.

Hey kids! I have an idea. Might be too radical. But let's try it.

How about if we post some contemporary composers who've made an impression on you.

I have done so already, in the very first post after the OP.

Several others have done so as well. Neither Johnll nor James however. They have simply raved on and on about how one of their colleagues has raved on and on instead of giving them what they want, something that the colleague in question has carefully explained* why he cannot give them what they want.

He can give dyn what dyn has asked for. Can do and has already done so.

*I mean "raved on and on" of course! :P

increasingly feeling like i might have come to the wrong place...

cheers anyway lads

Quote from: dyn on December 29, 2012, 04:21:43 PM
increasingly feeling like i might have come to the wrong place...

cheers anyway lads

No, no - you're in the right place. Please ignore the bickering; you asked a perfectly reasonable question, and a number of us haven't given you any composers (you know, holidays and all). Here are a few who have impressed me tremendously:

Klaus Lang (b. 1971) - Minimal, Cagean, mostly quiet work that's quite compelling with the right performers
Hannah Lash (b. 1981) - Haven't heard much of her work yet, but a few pieces have caught me immediately
Eli Keszler (b. c. 1985?) - Keszler designs enormous structures from piano wire, then combines their groaning, creaking sounds with his own high-energy drumming and other instruments
Missy Mazzoli (b. 1980) - One of my favorite titles: Still Life with Avalanche (and it's an excellent piece, too)
Clemens Gadenstätter (b. 1966) - Have heard several works, including his new quartet (played by the JACK Quartet) and...very striking

--Bruce

Your recommendation of Clemens Gadenstätter reminded me of the Donaueschinger Musiktage (http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_2?url=search-alias%3Dpopular&field-keywords=Donaueschinger) series of recordings.  Some of his music appears on the 2001 recording.  These CDs offer many new composers and feature some of their most important works.

Sorry Brewski. My fault.

Anyway, I agree with sanantonio that the Donaueschinger Musiktage series is a treasure chest of new music.

2007, vol. 3 has Mark Andre's ÖaufÖ III, Helmut Oehring's GOYA I - Yo lo vi, and Enno Poppe's Keilschrift. I think I'll give that a spin after finishing this post. I've become very engaged by Mark Andre's post-Lachenmann sound world. There are some fine Youtube videos of his works, too. I'm listening to Un fini I right now. If this is how harps are being played in heaven right now, then sign me up!!

2002 has the first Oehring I ever heard. And it was quite impressive (as per the OP :-*). ER.eine She (from 5ünf/Haare-Opfer). Amazon.com shows two listings for this three CD set, one for 48 and change, one for 57 and change. 48's OK for three CDs. And they're packed with sonic goodness. Julio Estrada, Alan Hilario, Chaya Czernowin and many more.

Anyway, thanks for your list, Brewski. I've only heard of two of them, so some new adventures for me. Thanks.

fair enough, i'll give it a go

Quote from: Octave on December 28, 2012, 08:35:02 PM
I was not under the impression that dyn was rabid-serious about the *1972 criterion; let's not get hung up on that.  I think that was suggested as a way of emphasizing work that was necessarily so new that part of the interest was in seeing an approach or even aesthetic come together.  Even my own initial suggestions (from very recent listening) are Old White Guys.

in fairness, there were a couple of people i hoped to exclude with a *1972 category, due to being too well known already to "make an impression" on the music world more than they already have.... >.> (Pintscher, Adès, etc) but i guess this works fine as a more general contemporary music thread as well. i haven't any authority over it after all.

Quote
BTW, is it okay to mention non-instrumental "tape music" work in this thread?  If I turn back the clock a little, there are lots of composers who do this kind of work who I used to be crazy about, a couple of whom I'm going to be revisiting this coming weekend+.  Musique concrète and electronic music, but usually not coming from the world of rock or pop music.  I could suggest a number of things there, from the past ~10-15 years; though I don't think many of them use traditional instruments or notation at all.

electroacoustic is fine by me. in fact i've been listening to quite a bit of it lately.

today i've been listening to some music by Ben Isaacs with the speakers turned up all the way, which is a poor substitute for actually seeing/hearing one of his pieces live. (there are recordings on his website, which are not much more than a taste, and scores, which help even less.) i think Isaacs would benefit from introduction to the bass clef—music that's very high up has just become somewhat of a cliché, and the actual sound of his music as a result isn't what has made the impression on me* :$—but it's still quite striking work that kicks lachenmann's "performative" tradition up a notch or two.

* a positive impression, anyway...

Quote from: Cato on December 29, 2012, 02:41:44 PM
Karl Henning and Luke Ottevanger have made quite an impression on me throughout the years here at GMG, and so has Paul Nauert, although I have only heard his one composition Episodes and Elegies.

On behalf of us all: We living composers thank you!

Quote from: karlhenning on December 30, 2012, 06:37:49 AM
On behalf of us all: We living composers thank you!

Because of a confluence of events, mostly related to drudgy activities associated with doing some renovations to our home, I have dusted off my keyboard and installed Finale on a spare laptop and setup a little area.   The plan is to get back to doing what I generously refer to as composing.  Your posts of writing some each day is a fine example to emulate.

Tally-ho!

:)

I am honored, sir!

steven stucky reminded me of another young composer, this one working in Britain

if you're not interested in composers who are content to work in the shadows of their influences he may not be for you, but i've always been impressed by the craft & ear of Mark Simpson. most of what i've heard has been at concerts although i think you can download his Last Night of the Proms piece sparks, which sits comfortably within the Knussen/Benjamin/Adès british "mainstream", parallel triads and all, but nonetheless manages to sound fresh & interesting (imo anyway). and who knows, maybe he'll pull a Jonathan Cole one of these days >.>

I enjoyed the Mazzoli piece. It is recorded by Eighth Blackbird and if you are a MOGette, like me, use the search term "meanwhile".  I cannot find any evidence that the Gadenstätter SQ exists – even on his web site. Perhaps the grey cells are just not clickin.
I will put in a good word for Jorg Widmann (b 1973) a German composer and clarinetist. His music does not break any new ground but I feel he has a voice and is real. I like his Elegie on the album of the same name (ECM),  Oktett on the recording Works For Ensemble (Neos), and a 20 minute violin romp ,Hommage to Piganini,  played by Sinn Yang (Oehms). All on mog and probably other streamers.

Quote from: Johnll on December 30, 2012, 03:56:41 PM
. . . His music does not break any new ground but I feel he has a voice and is real.

That latter is, after all, more important.

In fact, the cynical contrarian might argue that the fellow who breaks new ground is getting away with something — he may in fact have no voice, but just benefits from the fact that no one has been in that corner of the musical world before.

Quote from: Johnll on December 30, 2012, 03:56:41 PM
I enjoyed the Mazzoli piece. It is recorded by Eighth Blackbird and if you are a MOGette, like me, use the search term "meanwhile".  I cannot find any evidence that the Gadenstätter SQ exists – even on his web site. Perhaps the grey cells are just not clickin.
I will put in a good word for Jorg Widmann (b 1973) a German composer and clarinetist. His music does not break any new ground but I feel he has a voice and is real. I like his Elegie on the album of the same name (ECM),  Oktett on the recording Works For Ensemble (Neos), and a 20 minute violin romp ,Hommage to Piganini,  played by Sinn Yang (Oehms). All on mog and probably other streamers.

I am glad you mentioned Widmann, his work has impressed me too.  He is an accomplished clarinetist and was a student of Wolfgang Rihm, who has written some works for him.

Quote from: karlhenning on December 30, 2012, 04:07:32 PM
That latter is, after all, more important.

In fact, the cynical contrarian might argue that the fellow who breaks new ground is getting away with something — he may in fact have no voice, but just benefits from the fact that no one has been in that corner of the musical world before.

This boast of "breaking new ground" I think of as a red herring.  It is important for a composer to have a voice, an individuality that separates his work from others and offers something personal - but this can happen from within a common style and need not appear as a obvious departure from what has been done before.

I've been reading this book

[asin]1580463797[/asin]

The third question has to do with a composer's "style".  George Crumb is of the belief that all composers of competence have a style, which is both their own individual voice but also as having been imprinted by the past.  He considers it ridiculous to claim that any composer can reinvent himself for each piece and never "repeat" himself.  At a very basic level all composers have an essence which remains present in each work, even if hidden from all but the most perceptive listeners.

As long as we're dealing with older composers, i listened to Josef Anton Riedl's album vielleicht (NEOS) the other day which was immediately & thoroughly absorbing. i did not know this composer before, so i guess that's "new" enough >.> i was especially partial to bschat, terschied and the two versions of Glas-Spiele

while looking for more of his works i came across this CD (http://www.classicsonline.com/catalogue/product.aspx?pid=896968#), of which all the names except Beat Furrer were unfamiliar to me. on preliminary listens via naxos online it seemed extremely likeable. i don't know if anyone here has heard of any of the composers listed & can say anything about them

Quote from: sanantonio on December 30, 2012, 05:19:04 PM
This boast of "breaking new ground" I think of as a red herring.  It is important for a composer to have a voice, an individuality that separates his work from others and offers something personal - but this can happen from within a common style and need not appear as a obvious departure from what has been done before.

i think people often say "doesn't break new ground" ("unoriginal", "conservative" etc) when they mean "forgettable" or "undistinctive".

Mozart didn't break any new ground, nor did Brahms.

Quote from: dyn on December 31, 2012, 03:10:10 AM
As long as we're dealing with older composers, i listened to Josef Anton Riedl's album vielleicht (NEOS) the other day which was immediately & thoroughly absorbing. i did not know this composer before, so i guess that's "new" enough >.> i was especially partial to bschat, terschied and the two versions of Glas-Spiele

while looking for more of his works i came across this CD (http://www.classicsonline.com/catalogue/product.aspx?pid=896968#), of which all the names except Beat Furrer were unfamiliar to me. on preliminary listens via naxos online it seemed extremely likeable. i don't know if anyone here has heard of any of the composers listed & can say anything about them

I have a number of electronic/electroacoustic works by Riedl on a CD with works realized at the Siemens studio for electronic music. I also have a few downloads from AGP with some additional works of his. From all of those, his music is most definitely worthy of deep exploration.

I have a single work by Isabel Mundry, available in one of those Donaueschinger Musiktage releases on Col Legno. It has been a long time (>10 years) since I listened to it.

I have been watching this DVD and marveling at Sur Incises

[asin]B000E0VO1U[/asin]

In my opinion it is one of the most important works of the last 50 years.

Mm, I remember it for a groovy work, and that DVD is a temptation.

Quote from: sanantonio on December 31, 2012, 05:22:27 AM
I have been watching this DVD and marveling at Sur Incises

[asin]B000E0VO1U[/asin]

In my opinion it is one of the most important works of the last 50 years.

Yes, the masterclass-like rehearsal and dissection is thoroughly engaging.

Quote from: James on December 31, 2012, 08:11:03 AM
A fine DVD, a little on the dry side but still worth checking out, I wouldn't say it's essential.

Let's see what's really essential?  Air; water; food every now and then ...

No this DVD is not essential.  But, for anyone with an abiding interest in Boulez's music and process, especially regarding these two works, this DVD is a valuable resource.

Earlier I mentioned that I am reading the book Three Questions for Sixty-Five Composers (highly recommended) and last night I read the chapter with Morton Feldman's interview (he wandered quite a bit from the topic but gave informative responses). 

I learned a few things: Boulez was impressed with Feldman's music, sometimes, and bothered other times.  That's pretty much my own reaction, not to compare myself to Pierre Boulez in any other respect.  Also, John Cage studied with Arnold Schoenberg (who knew?) and felt that Schoenberg's music was more chromatic than Stravinsky's.  He confirmed a story told by Feldman about a meeting between Cage and Stravinsky where the Maestro was upset that Cage felt that way, and exclaimed, "But my music is also chromatic!".

:)

heh... i was just reading an old thread here where the OP was complaining about how young people didn't listen to classical music and were only interested in pop. someone mentioned that young people made up a much greater percentage of the audience in "new music" concerts and the general consensus of the thread shifted towards the idea that orchestras should program more music by living composers to attract younger audiences, "but none of that nasty modern stuff like Cage and Xenakis." found it kind of entertaining.

Will check out the book; right now it's new thread time

Quote from: sanantonio on December 31, 2012, 08:31:48 AM
Earlier I mentioned that I am reading the book Three Questions for Sixty-Five Composers (highly recommended) and last night I read the chapter with Morton Feldman's interview (he wandered quite a bit from the topic but gave informative responses). 

For more Feldman anecdotes, nothing beats Give my regards to 8th St.

[asin]1878972316[/asin]

Quote from: sanantonio on December 31, 2012, 08:31:48 AM
. . .  Also, John Cage studied with Arnold Schoenberg (who knew?) . . . .

Not to geek out, but I believe I did know that Cage had studied with Arnie . . . .

Quote from: karlhenning on December 31, 2012, 08:53:12 AM
Not to geek out, but I believe I did know that Cage had studied with Arnie . . . .

Yes, some of us are well-read enough to know these tidbits :). It's a smaller world than what the aesthetic differences might suggest...

Quote from: petrarch on December 31, 2012, 08:56:41 AM
Yes, some of us are well-read enough to know these tidbits :). It's a smaller world than what the aesthetic differences might suggest...

Well, I do consider myself "well-read" it's just that I have never been that interested in John Cage, and so have probably missed out on many tidbits concerning his development as a composer.

:P

Quote from: sanantonio on December 31, 2012, 09:01:51 AM
Well, I do consider myself "well-read" it's just that I have never been that interested in John Cage, and so have probably missed out on many tidbits concerning his development as a composer.

Boulez and Stockhausen also had great respect for Cage. The Feldman-Stockhausen anecdote is priceless.

Quote from: petrarch on December 31, 2012, 08:56:41 AM
It's a smaller world than what the aesthetic differences might suggest...

EDIT: ...or than James would care to admit :D.

Quote from: dyn on December 31, 2012, 03:18:56 AM
i think people often say "doesn't break new ground" ("unoriginal", "conservative" etc) when they mean "forgettable" or "undistinctive".

Dyn when I used this phrase in connection with Jorg Widmann I did not intend to communicate the above. You are welcome to think whatever you want about Widmann but I prefer you do not put words in my mouth.

Quote from: James on December 31, 2012, 09:12:11 AM
Arnie warned Cage that without shedding harmony he'd run into a wall!

Absolutely agree! :D

As for the rest of your comment, it is worth as much as your taste for Cage.

Quote from: Johnll on December 31, 2012, 09:17:24 AM
Dyn when I used this phrase in connection with Jorg Widmann I did not intend to communicate the above. You are welcome to think whatever you want about Widmann but I prefer you do not put words in my mouth.

i'm not talking about you, i was referring to when people use the phrase "doesn't break new ground" as a negative criticism. eg "Widmann's new piece is good but we at the guardian don't feel it breaks new ground"

i haven't heard Widmann's music so can't comment on it

wasn't cage's study with schoenberg significantly more incidental than that of e.g. berg or webern? (as in, only a few lessons) or was that just something he/his biographers invented later to give him a more authentically "American" musical heritage & gloss over the not inconsiderable 2nd viennese influence

Quote from: James on December 31, 2012, 09:27:17 AM
shedding short for woodshedding, aka working on & practicing.

Of course, silly me!

Quote from: James on December 31, 2012, 09:27:17 AM
In the early days .. some of his 'ideas' were disseminated by the young'uns, but ultimately neither really cared or thought much of his composing.

Ah the forgivable sins of the immature youth. If only they knew then what they knew later in life.

Quote from: dyn on December 31, 2012, 09:29:45 AM
wasn't cage's study with schoenberg significantly more incidental than that of e.g. berg or webern? (as in, only a few lessons)

Yes, it wasn't as systematic as with Berg and Webern.

John Cage represents a way of thinking about art and its interface with the audience, rather than just another 20th C. composer, to me.  In that regard he was enormously influential and important.  However, his music judged entirely on its own terms, does not capture my long-term interest.  His books, e.g. Silence, are also not my cup of tea - I much prefer reading his comments from interviews in which he comes across as witty and coherent. 

In a way I see similarities between Cage and Stockhausen - although I find Stockhausen's music much more engaging.

Quote from: James on December 31, 2012, 09:57:38 AM
"nonsensical" .. was Boulez's final verdict on Cage's music in hindsight.

You understand that is beside the point, right? Which was simply that there are numerous episodes and anecdotes that connect many renowned and apparently "aesthetically incompatible" composers.

Quote from: sanantonio on December 31, 2012, 09:59:46 AM
John Cage represents a way of thinking about art and its interface with the audience, rather than just another 20th C. composer, to me.  In that regard he was enormously influential and important.  However, his music judged entirely on its own terms, does not capture my long-term interest.

Some dozen-ish of his pieces have done, mine. As ever, of course, YMMV.

Quote from: karlhenning on December 31, 2012, 10:15:20 AM
Some dozen-ish of his pieces have done, mine. As ever, of course, YMMV.

I thought of that after I sent that post.  Mostly it's his earlier works, especially the Concerto for Prepared Piano and Chamber Orchestra. 

Quote from: sanantonio on December 31, 2012, 10:19:21 AM
I thought of that after I sent that post.  Mostly it's his earlier works, especially the Concerto for Prepared Piano and Chamber Orchestra.

Aye, that's one.

And in The Big Scheme of Things, I am apt to think, a dozen-ish pieces by Cage, a dozen-ish pieces by Boulez — call it a draw.

Quote from: sanantonio on December 31, 2012, 09:59:46 AM
John Cage represents a way of thinking about art and its interface with the audience, rather than just another 20th C. composer, to me.  In that regard he was enormously influential and important.  However, his music judged entirely on its own terms, does not capture my long-term interest.

i've personally not found much of interest in Cage before 4'33". i know people who've had the precisely opposite reaction though.

Quote from: James on December 31, 2012, 10:23:04 AM
They [Cage & Stockhausen] are polar opposites in essence .. young Stockhausen was certainly fascinated with some of Cage's ideas early on, probably more than young Boulez. Stockhausen's musicianship/output is wider & farther in range than both.

You may claim they are polar opposites, but each is concerned with extra-musical ideas as part of their process.  This creates a similarity in my mind. 

Quote from: dyn on December 31, 2012, 10:26:52 AM
i've personally not found much of interest in Cage before 4'33". i know people who've had the precisely opposite reaction though.

I find it interesting that Cage had thought of doing 4'33" at least two years prior to when he actually staged it - and it was only after seeing Robert Rauschenberg's White Paintings did he consider that the idea had credibility.

Judging by James'  response, for some people it never did reach that threshold. 

That piece is the perfect example of how Cage exhibited creative thinking about art, environment and audience that I find fascinating.  He has said that the work was in response to the seemingly constant glut of music, or muzak, with which we are deluged and he wished to carve out a small space of silence as a statement of protest. He also was making a important statement about how we think of music - and where we draw the line between noise and music.

Quote from: James on December 31, 2012, 10:32:52 AM
Nonart.

listen to some of the late number pieces (i was fortunate enough to hear 103 live a month or two ago), then come back to it

i promise you it'll make a lot more sense

Quote from: dyn on December 31, 2012, 10:55:14 AM
listen to some of the late number pieces (i was fortunate enough to hear 103 live a month or two ago), then come back to it

i promise you it'll make a lot more sense

You are assuming an open mind...

Quote from: dyn on December 31, 2012, 10:55:14 AM
listen to some of the late number pieces (i was fortunate enough to hear 103 live a month or two ago), then come back to it

i promise you it'll make a lot more sense

I like the One After 909 ...

;)

Gosh, remember that thread about contemporary composer's who've made an impression on you?

Whatever happened to that thread?

It was nice, I thought. Neutral. Non-confrontational. Collegial.

I liked it, anyway.

Not so fond of this "contemporary composers who have to pass the quality test of one particular poster before they can be mentioned" thread. Course, it is winter now. And perhaps producing more heat than light has some utility in colder weather.

Still....

Did anyone else bother to listen to Ann Southam recommended by ChamberNut early in the thread. Alright no tape or bangs on a can (will not say breaks no new ground) but I find her piano music to be very nice. I actually think some might be surprised and sometimes two ears is enough, ChamberNut's. 

Quote from: James on December 31, 2012, 11:22:29 AM
i'm all for utilizing & knowing how (& knowing what is acceptable) to use silence, and/or integrating noise, sounds out there in the world with pitched music, traditional musical instruments within the craft of musical composition. i've explored Cage's output quite extensively and have heard that piece .. and seen the Mode dvd of it too in fact, it doesn't change things.

I'm not the hugest fan of Cage, but this is a piece of his I particularly enjoy. It does make extensive use of extended technique for the Double Bass.

http://www.youtube.com/v/P2RQhJb30Zg

Quote from: James on December 31, 2012, 08:42:40 PM
Ugh .. tedious unmusical crap. Anyone can do this shit. There is so much more to the beautiful art of music than techniques & "noises".

Well my prior posting indicated that extended technique that I'm interested in, and I did also mention that the Cage piece fit into that camp, so I think I was fairly clear with what you were going to hear.

Quote from: James on December 31, 2012, 09:09:52 PM
Yea so you're into "extended" gimmicks .. i mean techniques, is that it? .. but where is the music though? I can plug in my electric guitar and do the same thing, make a bunch of "noises" using a variety of um "techniques" .. doesn't mean it's musical or any good. That YT clip was piss poor stuff and a complete waste of time.

I suppose it could be seen as a gimmick. Although, I wouldn't necessarily classify it as such. For me its simply exploration of an instrument in a different direction. Some like the sounds, some don't.

Quote from: James on December 31, 2012, 09:52:54 PM
It's an empty vessel .. and not a musical journey or exploration at all. There is more to music, and it's a much deeper art than just "techniques" & "sounds".

Well I don't agree with your first two statements, and I've never said anything that would cause one to infer the last.

Quote from: some guy on December 31, 2012, 01:36:55 PM
Gosh, remember that thread about contemporary composer's who've made an impression on you?

Whatever happened to that thread?

It was nice, I thought. Neutral. Non-confrontational. Collegial.

I liked it, anyway.

Not so fond of this "contemporary composers who have to pass the quality test of one particular poster before they can be mentioned" thread. Course, it is winter now. And perhaps producing more heat than light has some utility in colder weather.

Still....

Agree. Though the mention of John Cage on any music board tends to flame up. Which I think is a inevitable result of his fundamental music aesthetic. Just realize that the guy was yanking you around, either you find it amusing or you hate it, and go on.....

Joseph Bertolozzi  (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Bertolozzi)(born 1959) is an American composer and musician with works ranging from full symphony orchestra to solo gongs to suspension bridge. With increasingly numerous performances across the US and Europe to his credit, his music is performed by groups ranging from the Grammy-winning Chestnut Brass Company to the Eastman School of Music, and he himself has played at such diverse venues as the Vatican and The US Tennis Open.

Bridge Music

[asin]B0020MSTU4[/asin]

His most well known project is 'Bridge Music': using only the sounds of New York's Mid-Hudson Bridge, Bridge Music allows listeners to hear the bridge played like a musical instrument. The work was created for New York's 400th anniversary observance of Henry Hudson's voyage up the river that now bears his name. Originally intended to be a live performance piece, this "audacious plan" (New York Times) to compose music for a suspension bridge using the bridge itself as the instrument brought Bertolozzi wide international attention.

I discovered this disc looking for recordings by Sylvie Bodorová (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sylvie_Bodorova) - very worthwhile, and there are several other discs in this series.

[asin]B004RCZBT2[/asin]

Quote from: Johnll on December 31, 2012, 06:46:29 PM
Did anyone else bother to listen to Ann Southam recommended by ChamberNut early in the thread. Alright no tape or bangs on a can (will not say breaks no new ground) but I find her piano music to be very nice. I actually think some might be surprised and sometimes two ears is enough, ChamberNut's.

Thanks for noticing my recommendation, John!  :)  Yes, this was a gift given to me (her CD for her solo piano piece entitled 'Simple Lines of Enquiry').  Eva Egoyan on the piano.

Requires several listens to really hear all the different nuances of 12 movements.  Upon first listen, one may conclude that they sound the same or quite similar.  Some truth to it, but listen to it several times and you'll hear the intricacies and nuances.

Ann Southam passed away in November 2010.

Quote from: sanantonio on January 01, 2013, 06:00:44 AM
Joseph Bertolozzi  (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Bertolozzi)(born 1959) is an American composer and musician with works ranging from full symphony orchestra to solo gongs to suspension bridge. With increasingly numerous performances across the US and Europe to his credit, his music is performed by groups ranging from the Grammy-winning Chestnut Brass Company to the Eastman School of Music, and he himself has played at such diverse venues as the Vatican and The US Tennis Open.

Bridge Music

[asin]B0020MSTU4[/asin]

His most well known project is 'Bridge Music': using only the sounds of New York's Mid-Hudson Bridge, Bridge Music allows listeners to hear the bridge played like a musical instrument. The work was created for New York's 400th anniversary observance of Henry Hudson's voyage up the river that now bears his name. Originally intended to be a live performance piece, this "audacious plan" (New York Times) to compose music for a suspension bridge using the bridge itself as the instrument brought Bertolozzi wide international attention.

How gimmicky, but that's typical of so many composers today.

Quote from: Mirror Image on January 01, 2013, 08:23:01 AM
How gimmicky, but that's typical of so many composers today.

Yes, just like grabbing a sequence of notes and playing it several times with slight differences, or displacing it a few notes up and down, or playing it backwards...

Quote from: petrarch on January 01, 2013, 08:49:32 AM
Yes, just like grabbing a sequence of notes and playing it several times with slight differences, or displacing it a few notes up and down, or playing it backwards...

Yes, but then John doesn't like Bach either.

Quote from: petrarch on January 01, 2013, 08:49:32 AM
Yes, just like grabbing a sequence of notes and playing it several times with slight differences, or displacing it a few notes up and down, or playing it backwards...

Irrelevant comment. I'm talking about the banging away at different parts of a bridge to make different noises doesn't strike me as a good idea for a piece of music.

Quote from: Mirror Image on January 01, 2013, 08:23:01 AM
How gimmicky, but that's typical of so many composers today.

Not only of today.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kq_7w9RHvpQ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kq_7w9RHvpQ)

Arseny Avraamov - Symphony Of Factory Sirens (Public Event, Baku 1922)

or Antheil, for that sake....

and Mozart and Beethoven on wineglasses.

Quote from: Mirror Image on January 01, 2013, 09:30:46 AM
Irrelevant comment. I'm talking about the banging away at different parts of a bridge to make different noises doesn't strike me as a good idea for a piece of music.

Irrelevant explanation. I am talking about close-mindedness that dismisses experimentation because it doesn't conform to comfortable and familiar approaches.

http://www.youtube.com/v/y9P2V0_p6vE

Quote from: petrarch on January 01, 2013, 09:41:35 AM
Irrelevant explanation. I am talking about close-mindedness that dismisses experimentation because it doesn't conform to comfortable and familiar approaches.

I'm not close-minded to experimentation. I just don't think the composer's idea was a particularly good one. That's okay to feel this way isn't it? I don't need to get a permit or license to give an opinion do I?

Quote from: Mirror Image on January 01, 2013, 09:30:46 AM
Irrelevant comment. I'm talking about the banging away at different parts of a bridge to make different noises doesn't strike me as a good idea for a piece of music.

why?

a bridge can make as many sounds as a piano, if not more so

it's just somewhat harder to fit on the stage of Carnegie Hall >.>

Quote from: The new erato on January 01, 2013, 09:37:37 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kq_7w9RHvpQ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kq_7w9RHvpQ)

Arseny Avraamov - Symphony Of Factory Sirens (Public Event, Baku)

Very many thanks for posting that. Whether members approve of the idea or not, it's pretty remarkable for 1922. Experimental, yes. Gimmicky, no. At least not in the sense that its being used on this thread.

I was quite surprised when I looked up the word.

Quote
1.
a. A device employed to cheat, deceive, or trick, especially a mechanism for the secret and dishonest control of gambling apparatus.
b. An innovative or unusual mechanical contrivance; a gadget.
2.
a. An innovative stratagem or scheme employed especially to promote a project: an advertising gimmick.
b. A significant feature that is obscured, misrepresented, or not readily evident; a catch.

Quote from: Mirror Image on January 01, 2013, 10:13:02 AM
I'm not close-minded to experimentation.

I must have mistook "gimmicky" and "typical of most composers today" as close-mindedness. That surely is it... Yeah, that must be it.

I'm glad everyone has, and is entitled to, an opinion here. Including opinions about posts.

Quote from: dyn on January 01, 2013, 10:15:24 AM
why?

a bridge can make as many sounds as a piano, if not more so

it's just somewhat harder to fit on the stage of Carnegie Hall >.>

This.

Quote from: petrarch on January 01, 2013, 10:33:54 AM
I must have mistook "gimmicky" and "typical of most composers today" as close-mindedness. That surely is it... Yeah, that must be it.

I said typical of many composers today. Not most. If you're going to quote me, then at least use the correct quotation, but yeah, I think the whole idea is pretty lame and it speaks volumes, for me, about the composer and his lack of imagination.

It is possible to dismiss any compositional method or process as a gimmick.  And while I am interested in understanding how a work was conceived and written, in the final analysis all that matters is how it sounds.  In the case of Bridge Music - I find it interesting and in many ways a beautiful piece. 

As a listener I don't care what process or method was used to produce the work - I am either engaged by the sound of the music or not; and this is true whether the work is of the avant garde or the most traditional works from any period.

:)

John Morton is a composer best known for his use and manipulations of music boxes and their sounds. This may be compared to Conlon Nancarrow's use of the player piano and John Cage's use of the prepared piano. Born in Los Angeles, he studied privately with David Sheinfeld in San Francisco and then attended the California Institute of the Arts, where he studied with Morton Subotnick and Lucky Mosko. In summer 2009 he created the Sound Tunnel in New York City's Central Park.

[asin]B000NDIAN8[/asin]

[asin]B00005NNG0[/asin]

Quote from: sanantonio on January 01, 2013, 11:41:25 AM
John Morton is a composer best known for his use and manipulations of music boxes and their sounds.

In the same vein, there's Warren Burt (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warren_Burt) and his exploration of the sound of tuning forks in The animation of lists and the Archytan transpositions:

[asin]B004GNEGSY[/asin]

Quote from: James on January 01, 2013, 12:26:52 PM
If you like music written, taylored for music boxes .. check out Stockhausen's Tierkreis (1974-75), twelve melodies. Quite dreamy little tunes that introduce a new flexibility of scale & expression to the concept of melody formula. A number of editions of the melodies have been published for a variety forces & time-scales.

(http://home.swipnet.se/sonoloco2/Rec/Stockhausen/tier1ir.jpg)

Samples >> http://www.stockhausencds.com/Stockhausen_Edition_CD24.htm

I am very familiar with Tierkreis - I've heard it performed with other instruments.  One of the more interesting, to me, is done with electric bass and electronics.

(http://cdn.7static.com/static/img/sleeveart/00/014/119/0001411973_350.jpg)

Lawrence English

Lawrence English (born 1976) is a composer, media artist and curator living in Brisbane, Australia. For over a decade he has been an increasingly active force in Australian sound art and experimental music - both as a creator and curator.

For/Not For John Cage

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/31BqKnux29L._SL500_AA280_.jpg)

Mohammed Fairouz (born November 1, 1985) is an American composer.

Fairouz began composing at an early age and studied at the New England Conservatory of Music. His teachers included Gunther Schuller, Halim El-Dabh, György Ligeti and John Heiss.

[asin]B005OZDXRS[/asin]

With music described as "evocative" by The New York Times, Canadian-born Vivian Fung (http://www.vivianfung.net/web/bio.aspx) has distinguished herself as a composer with a powerful compositional voice, whose music often merges Western forms with non-Western influences such as Balinese and Javanese gamelan and folk songs from minority regions of China.

[asin]B008N66KNO[/asin]

Now listening to Alexander Khubeev's Sounds of the dark time (a Gaudeamus Muziekweek '13 nominee).

it invites comparison with Mikrophonie I (albeit here done with string instruments), but it is much narrower & more focused in scope—whereas Mikrophonie I opens out a vast & evocative sound world this piece, as the title might imply, aims to create a much bleaker atmosphere. the reliance on the idea of friction as a primary compositional element also owes something to electronic drone of the dark ambient variety, i suspect. there are glissandi & quasi-electronic hoots later on (i have no idea if this piece uses electronics or not) that point to a greater sense of humour behind it all, & overall i think the composition is a lot less subtle in many respects. still, a very enjoyable piece.

Quote from: sanantonio on January 01, 2013, 03:08:30 PMVivian Fung (http://www.vivianfung.net/web/bio.aspx) has distinguished herself as a composer with a powerful compositional voice, whose music often merges Western forms with non-Western influences such as Balinese and Javanese gamelan and folk songs from minority regions of China.

not to shoot the messenger here, but someone at the new york times should be asking themselves: how does that help distinguish her from all the other composers of non-Western origin? literally every one of them is described as "merging Western forms with non-Western influences" despite this being just as applicable to Stockhausen or Debussy, and despite the differences between e.g. Takemitsu, Ge Gan-ru and Unsuk Chin far outweighing any similarities. honestly it feels like there's quite a bit of subtle racism at work here

Has anyone heard these?

(http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B0043XCKOY.01.L.jpg)

(http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B001NZA05G.01.L.jpg)

Pēteris Vasks (born 16 April 1946) is a Latvian composer.

Vasks was born in Aizpute, Latvia, into the family of a Baptist pastor. He trained as a violinist at the Jazeps Vitols Latvian Academy of Music, as a double-bass player with Vitautas Sereikaan at the Lithuanian Academy of Music and Theatre, and played in several Latvian orchestras before entering the State Conservatory in Vilnius in the neighboring Lithuania to study composition with Valentin Utkin, as he was prevented from doing this in Latvia due to Soviet repressive policy toward Baptists. He started to become known outside Latvia in the 1990s, when Gidon Kremer started championing his works and now is one of the most influential and praised European contemporary composers.

[asin]B003X02ND6[/asin]

Very expressive music.

János Vajda

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/61xuTszbFKL._SL500_AA300_.jpg)

This album (heartily recommended) available as mp3s here (http://www.amazon.com/J%C3%A1nos-Vajda-String-Quartets-Sonata/dp/B002MOF3RC/ref=tmm_other_meta_binding_title_0?ie=UTF8&qid=1357134345&sr=1-19).

Quote from: karlhenning on January 02, 2013, 04:49:53 AM
János Vajda

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/61xuTszbFKL._SL500_AA300_.jpg)

This album (heartily recommended) available as mp3s here (http://www.amazon.com/J%C3%A1nos-Vajda-String-Quartets-Sonata/dp/B002MOF3RC/ref=tmm_other_meta_binding_title_0?ie=UTF8&qid=1357134345&sr=1-19).

Very nice - I found it on Spotify.

You might also like this

Pavel Fischer ~ Moravia

[asin]B007KG5N9K[/asin]

I know of Sequenza21 (http://www.sequenza21.com/) - but what other online or print mags do you read that focus on contemporary classical music and composers?

Quote from: sanantonio on January 02, 2013, 07:52:48 AM
what other online or print mags do you read that focus on contemporary classical music and composers?

Why, this forum, of course! (j/k)

I mostly follow the websites and catalogues of the labels I am interested in (e.g. Kairos, Neos, Aeon and so on). Between that and a few online stores I keep myself apprised of new releases. For previously unknown composers or labels I rely on a brick and mortar music store whose owner I've known for 20 years and is extremely enthusiastic about contemporary classical (and also early and medieval music).

Quote from: petrarch on January 02, 2013, 10:43:13 AM
. . . For previously unknown composers or labels I rely on a brick and mortar music store whose owner I've known for 20 years and is extremely enthusiastic about contemporary classical (and also early and medieval music).

Here in Boston?

Quote from: karlhenning on January 02, 2013, 10:46:48 AM
Here in Boston?

Unfortunately, no--I visit that store when I am on vacation in Portugal.

Quote from: petrarch on January 02, 2013, 10:43:13 AM
Why, this forum, of course! (j/k)

I mostly follow the websites and catalogues of the labels I am interested in (e.g. Kairos, Neos, Aeon and so on). Between that and a few online stores I keep myself apprised of new releases. For previously unknown composers or labels I rely on a brick and mortar music store whose owner I've known for 20 years and is extremely enthusiastic about contemporary classical (and also early and medieval music).

That's what I've done too. 

Btw, when I last checked Sequenza21 I saw this

VIVA 21ST CENTURY - INTERNATIONAL EDITION - 24-HOUR LIVE WPRB RADIO BROADCAST
Friday, December 28, 2012 - 2:00pm till  Saturday, December 29, 2012 - 2:00pm
(http://www.classicaldiscoveries.org/playlist20121228m.html)

Unfortunately I missed the marathon, but it is archived until the 20th.  I've been finding a good bit of the music on Spotify or MOG, and much of it is not to my taste - but he does showcase 80+ composers.

Quote from: sanantonio on January 02, 2013, 07:52:48 AM
I know of Sequenza21 (http://www.sequenza21.com/) - but what other online or print mags do you read that focus on contemporary classical music and composers?

I don't follow them regularly, but I enjoy the occasional visit to New Music Box and to the 5:4 blog.

www.newmusicbox.org/
5against4.com/

Quote from: PaulSC on January 02, 2013, 01:49:36 PM
I don't follow them regularly, but I enjoy the occasional visit to New Music Box and to the 5:4 blog.

www.newmusicbox.org/
5against4.com/

Thanks

Evan Chambers

Evan Chambers (born 1963, Alexandria, Louisiana) is a composer, traditional Irish fiddler, and Professor of Composition at the University of Michigan. He received a Doctorate in music composition from the University of Michigan. His teachers include William Albright for whose Requiem he composed Lament, Leslie Bassett, Nicholas Thorne, and Marilyn Shrude, with studies in electronic music with George Wilson and Burton Beerman. He is a member of the Lindisfarne Association.

Chambers' compositions are deeply rooted in folk music, his own spirituality, and a keen comprehension of musical gesture and form. His works for large ensemble include The Old Burying Ground for soprano, tenor, folksinger and orchestra, Concerto for Fiddle and Violin for Irish fiddler, violin soloist, and orchestra; Three Islands for orchestra; The Tall-Eared Fox and the Wild-Eyed Man for string orchestra; and Polka Nation for wind ensemble. His chamber music includes Come Down Heavy, Cold Water, Dry Stone and Crazed for the Flame. His electronic music compositions include Rothko-Tobey Continuum for violin and tape and Cell Phone Java Bodhi Svaha, with video by Andy Kirshner based on Buddhist-themed poetry by Chambers.

Chambers' music has been recorded on the compact disks The Old Burying Ground (Dorian Sono Luminus DSL-92113), Cold Water, Dry Stone (Albany, Troy 422), Brutal Reality (Albany, Troy 354), Simple Requests (Cambria CD-1088), "Collaborations" (Equilibrium CD-66), Alternating Currents (Centaur CRC 2492) and "Beyond the Red Line" (Mark Custom MCD-6537).

Here's an interview (http://www.newmusicbox.org/articles/evan-chambers-you-must-change-your-life/) with a video that has excerpts from a few compositions.

I like what I've heard, in some places quite a lot - I also agree with much of what he says about making music and what's important.  This quote especially made sense to me:

QuoteI always tell my students, if you can find a way to put what you're doing now together, or to bring it into sympathy with, synchrony with, your earliest musical experiences, then that releases a lot of energy because it's like being in touch with your roots, honestly.

Cheap hair dyes.

That's the way to be in touch with your roots.

Quote from: karlhenning on January 01, 2013, 09:44:25 AM
http://www.youtube.com/v/y9P2V0_p6vE

Ha!  :D
This is awesome. Reminds me of the video of John Cage performing one of his experimental pieces as a host on a talk show (was it Ed Sullivan?).

I've Got a Secret

I just listened to a fantastic work from 2003 by Michael Gatonska (http://michaelgatonska.com/) from a CD called First Takes.  The work was "Transformation of the Hummingbird"

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/61DbT3Mw04L._SL500_AA280_.jpg)

I also discovered another interesting composer, Allen Brings, whose music can be found on this site: New Music Online (http://library.newmusicusa.org/allenbrings)

This site seems to be connected to New Music Box and it also sponsors a 24-hour streaming radio site called Counterstream Radio (http://www.counterstreamradio.org/).

Pascal Dusapin

https://www.youtube.com/v/KZn8ATNyM1M

Galim, flute concerto

Pretty much all the minimalists. I like the usual, Rautavaara, Sallinen. And in a wildly different vein, Graeme Koehne.

Åke Parmerud (http://parmerud.tripod.com/)

Åke Parmerud (1953) has been professionally active as a composer since 1978. He studied at the Gothenburg Music Conservatory, after having worked as a professional photographer between 1972-74. His list of works includes instrumental music as well as electro-acoustic compositions, multimedia, video and music for theater and film. It is however his electro-acoustic music in particular that has gained international interest, most noticably through a great number of festival prizes. (Bourges festival 1978, 1980, 1984, 1988, 1991, 1992 Prix Ars Electronica 1990, 1994, Prix Noroit 1991 and Stockholm Electronic Arts Award 1993) His CD "Invisible music" was awarded a Grammy as the best classical CD in Sweden 1995, and in 1997 his work "Grains of Voices" was performed in the New York headquarters during the United Nations day. Åke Parmerud has composed a number of works comissioned by international institutions in Holland, France, Germany, Norway and Denmark. His music is played worldwide. Åke Parmerud also teaches computermusic and composition at the Lindbladstudio, Gothenburg University.

YouTube Topic (https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC2P0EL7LA3m4o95SM5HKbng)

Steve Reich (http://www.stevereich.com/)

Well, as my avatar would indicate, I'm a fan of Steve Reich's music. I prefer him over all of the other so-called 'Minimalists.' What makes his music particularly striking to me is it's ongoing fascination with rhythm. Like Reich, I am a percussionist, although admittedly I'm a very poor one, but I understand his music from a rhythmical point-of-view, which, I suppose, helps me understand his music better. His music either ignites enthusiasm from people or it leaves them incredibly irritated. There seems to not be much of a middle ground. The first work I heard of Reich's was his masterpiece Music for 18 Musicians. I like many other works but this one still gives me the chills.

Quote from: sanantonio on February 12, 2014, 08:22:18 AM
Pascal Dusapin

https://www.youtube.com/v/KZn8ATNyM1M

Galim, flute concerto

Awesome. Dusapin is definitely one of the best composing today.

All the known minimalists. A few lesser known too :)

Ten Holt if not in the above. Koehne. Rautavaara, Sallinen. Boulez in a bad way. Anyone left from Darmstadt, in a bad way. Sondheim. Bach, who is immortal.

Quote from: TheGSMoeller on February 16, 2014, 04:52:44 PM
Awesome. Dusapin is definitely one of the best composing today.

I agree.  Dusapin and G.F. Haas are two composers who are, I think, doing some really good work in the last few years. 

Georg Friedrich Haas - limited approximations (2010)

https://www.youtube.com/v/1KAskQC5wgA

Quotelimited approximations does not tell a story. As with all my compositions, there is also no formal development or traditional formal structure. Contrasting elements alternate with one another -- moments of smoothness and friction. "Pseudo-glissandi" in the pianos arrive unexpectedly at overtone chords. Apparently stable constellations of intervals begin to falter as the twelfth-tones merge.

The spectral, telescoping chords of the pianos are taken up by the orchestra, over and over again. In my early works I had to limit myself to a few basic tones, out of respect for what was practically realisable: in vain makes do with only the 12 tones of the traditionally tuned scale. Natures mortes uses only six different overtone chords, of which four are based on tones found in the traditionally tuned system. In limited approximations, thanks to the pianos, the whole world of sound is open to me. A microtonal countermovement is composed into the final third of the piece: from the fifth C'-G' to the neutral second between the E sharp raised by a twelfth-tone and the F lowered by a sixth-tone. Thus 10 different intervals arise, each of which becomes the centre of an overtone chord. This section last more than 100 bars. Or: an overtone chord, starting fortissimo, rings out, is picked up in the orchestra, swells again to a crescendo, which masks the start of a new overtone chord in the pianos, only the reverberation can be heard, it rings out, is taken up by the orchestra, swells ... etc.

Or: two different overtone chords, based on tones that sound entirely warped next to one another, fade in and out ... etc.
Melodies recur again and again, wandering from piano to piano -- as tremolo, as individual tones, as overtone chords.
Or: an interval (for example the fifth C-G) sounds in all octaves -- but some of these octaves are expanded by a twelfth of a tone. The ear corrects the chord (or tries to correct it) -- looked at horizontally, the intervals oscillate in twelve-tone steps, but stay in the same place after all ...

Towards the end of the piece (after an "aria" of overtones) the principle that the traditional 12-tone system makes overtone scales sound flat is reversed: the overtones are intoned (approximately) correctly -- but the bass tones are blurred together in a twelfth-tone cluster. The string instruments then maintain the overtone chord built up in the "aria" -- uninterrupted by the "intermezzo" that follows, in which the pianos adjust the chord in parallel twelfth-tone intervals.

As central as the work with overtone chords is for limited approximations, at first it is built out of processes of diffusion, clouding, friction. As the piece progresses, the music returns to this initial situation, as if by accident -- reminiscences, relapses, contrasts.

At the end, a quotation from Ivan Vishnegradsky's harmonies (against the relics of an overtone chord in the strings) -- not with the clarity of his composition "arc-en-ciel" (I was able to première this work for 6 pianos tuned in twelfth-tone intervals in 1988) but in the clouding over of twelfth-tone chords gliding gently towards the heavens. Even this approximation is only a limited one.  ~ Georg Friedrich Haas

Quote from: sanantonio on February 17, 2014, 06:54:56 AM
Georg Friedrich Haas - limited approximations (2010)

https://www.youtube.com/v/1KAskQC5wgA

Great piece, and the microtonally tuned pianos produce some staggering sonic effects.

If it's not been posted already, I'd like to add Natures Mortes, which I think is an even finer work:

https://www.youtube.com/v/7W1FbNmNwbwhttps://www.youtube.com/v/LVl-d8nE9ckhttps://www.youtube.com/v/YjgVxKeTL_g

(It's posted in three segments, hence the three links above.)

Quote from: The new erato on January 01, 2013, 01:40:16 AM
Agree. Though the mention of John Cage on any music board tends to flame up. Which I think is a inevitable result of his fundamental music aesthetic. Just realize that the guy was yanking you around, either you find it amusing or you hate it, and go on.....

Yup. I was surprised how much I liked the prepared piano stuff. The discs on Naxos are fantastic.
I also think the country would be served by having the president perform 4'33" in place of the SOTU.

Quote from: Ken B on February 17, 2014, 02:49:25 PM
Yup. I was surprised how much I liked the prepared piano stuff. The discs on Naxos are fantastic.
I also think the country would be served by having the president perform 4'33" in place of the SOTU.

Or better yet, have it performed in place of The Star-Spangled Banana at ball games! ;D

Lubomyr Melnyk, KMH

I progammed that when I was in radio.

This is from a scratchy vinyl
http://m.youtube.com/results?q=lubomyr%20melnyk%20kmh&sm=3

Available on cd

Quote from: Ken B on February 18, 2014, 07:45:34 PM
Lubomyr Melnyk, KMH

I progammed that when I was in radio.

This is from a scratchy vinyl
http://m.youtube.com/results?q=lubomyr%20melnyk%20kmh&sm=3

Available on cd

I've listened to several of his works, especially some of the string quartets.  Many of his CDs are available from our local library.

A lot of Ukrainian folk themed music.  Great stuff!  :)

No longer living but Aldo Clementi is a composer who has made a deep impression on me

http://www.youtube.com/v/tIrPsSyUelo

Aldo Clementi (25 May 1925 – 3 March 2011) was born in Catania, Italy. He studied the piano, graduating in 1946. His studies in composition began in 1941, and his teachers included Alfredo Sangiorgi and Goffredo Petrassi. After receiving his diploma in 1954, he attended the Darmstadt summer courses from 1955 to 1962. Important influences during this period included meeting Bruno Maderna in 1956, and working at the electronic music studio of the Italian radio broadcaster RAI in Milan.

In 1983 David Fanning described Clementi's style of decelerating canons as "sharing in the widespread post-serial depression of the 1970s", while in 1988 Paul Griffiths referred to the "Alexandrian simplicity of his solution to the current confusion in music. Clementi himself described his works as "an extremely dense counterpoint, relegating the parts to the shameful role of inaudible, cadaverous micro-organisms"

My brother sent me an audio-file a few years ago of Requiem for Icarus by Lera Auerbach.

http://www.youtube.com/v/Zyp3YwUYlK8

Robert Moran

Here's a fairly recent piece http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uZ5nTzv--k4

Completely overwhelmed by the symphonies (ten, at the moment) by Octagenarian John Kinsella (b. 1932). Ranging from Bruckner and Sibelius to rich orchestrations that remind us of Dutilleux, even. The most impressive cycle I encountered since Tubin, Braga Santos, Bates, Englund, and worthy of a comparison with the other great symphonists.  :)

Quote from: Cato on February 24, 2014, 06:32:37 AM
My brother sent me an audio-file a few years ago of Requiem for Icarus by Lera Auerbach.

Her Cello Sonata and 24 Preludes for cello are remarkable works!

I've mentioned this before, but seeing Steven Mackey's string quartet Ars Moriendi: Nine Tableaux on the Art of Dying Well made a very profound impression on me when I was in 10th grade (2007). An extremely personal piece for me since it was about his father dying of a heart attack (my father survived a heart attack when I was 8 years old).