Another major reissue alert:
Decca/Philips is finally reissuing the classic Grumiaux/Haskil set of Beethoven violin sonatas! (http://www.deccaclassics.com/newsandnewreleases/april2007/4758460.html)
I believe these same recordings just recently turned up on Brilliant but transfer-wise I'm betting on Decca.
Own Grumiaux in so many recordings, but not this one - would likely still love the performances! :)
My current collections of these works are:
Perlman & Ashkenazy & The Franks - both superb offerings (got the Franks @ a bargin!) - :D
(http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/P/B0000041UF.01._SCLZZZZZZZ_AA240_.jpg) (http://g-ec2.images-amazon.com/images/G/01/ciu/63/e3/be5e1363ada0094c5837c010._AA240_.L.jpg)
Quote from: donwyn on April 11, 2007, 05:23:40 PM
Another major reissue alert:
Decca/Philips is finally reissuing the classic Grumiaux/Haskill set of Beethoven violin sonatas! (http://www.deccaclassics.com/newsandnewreleases/april2007/4758460.html)
I believe these same recordings just recently turned up on Brilliant but transfer-wise I'm betting on Decca.
Would be nice if they show up in one of those trio sets for bargain price! :)
Quote from: George on April 11, 2007, 06:39:41 PM
Would be nice if they show up in one of those trio sets for bargain price! :)
That's a thought!
I vote budget, too.
Let's hope!
I'll be getting this. I'll see if it's available in Perth when I get there.
Grumiaux/KHaskil is my preferred version of the 10 Sonatas. But, Francescatti/Casadesus are not very far, and in some cases even preferable: the 7th, the 9th, the 10th.
It's too bad Decca didn't just reissue the Mozart Violin Sonatas at the same time. Perhaps a Double Decca will be forthcoming. Better just to have the 90s Clara Haskil The Legacy set I say; that way you get it all. The sound for the LvB Violin Sonatas ain't the greatest, but the set is one of the better ones out there. Good to see it back in circulation.
I'm embarking on an extensive review of recordings of the Beethoven Violin Sonatas and don't want to exclude any discs that have strong advocates. I am particularly interested in your opinions of discs that are outside the mainstream of popularity such as the new complete set on the Claves label.
Don,
I take it Kremer/Argerich will be on your agenda?
How about any HIP sets? Or just modern instruments? I'll look up that Claves set to see who you are talking about... :-\
8)
Quote from: Don on April 17, 2007, 03:33:02 PM
I'm embarking on an extensive review of recordings of the Beethoven Violin Sonatas and don't want to exclude any discs that have strong advocates. I am particularly interested in your opinions of discs that are outside the mainstream of popularity such as the new complete set on the Claves label.
Who's playing on the Claves set?
Quote from: Gurn Blanston on April 17, 2007, 03:47:08 PM
Don,
I take it Kremer/Argerich will be on your agenda?
How about any HIP sets? Or just modern instruments? I'll look up that Claves set to see who you are talking about... :-\
8)
Definitely Kremer/Argerich and the other highly touted sets. Playing on the Claves set are pianist Paavali Jumppanen and violinist Corey Cerovsek. I've read a couple of reviews of this set that are highly favorable.
Concerning HIP sets, are there any?
Don - just have two complete sets: Perlman & Ashkenazy and the Franks, father & daughter team - I think the latter is just a great bargin & well performed; of course, modern instruments - would be interested in HIP performances (if the exist?) - looking forward to more recommendations and your comments - Dave :)
(http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/P/B0000041UF.01._SCLZZZZZZZ_V46699511_AA240_.jpg) (http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/G/01/ciu/63/e3/be5e1363ada0094c5837c010._AA240_.L.jpg)
Quote from: Don on April 17, 2007, 04:26:08 PM
Concerning HIP sets, are there any?
Paging Mr. Que..............Mr. Que, there is a telephone call for you....................Mr. Que?
Grumiaux/Haskil. (http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,214.0.html)
A great set that up 'till now has been very rare on disc.
Are you interested in only complete cycles Don?
If this is to be a serious survey, I think we can assume that the following will be studied:
Grumiaux/Haskil
Francescatti/Casadesus
Kremer/Argerich
Schneiderhan/Kempff
Perlman/Ashkenazy
Oistrakh/Oborin
Menuhin/Kempff
Suk/Panenka
Szigeti/Arrau (and Szigeti's Kreutzer with Bartok)
Frank/Frank*
Kreisler/Rupp (and the individual sonatas with Rachmaninoff)
Heifetz/Bay or Smith
Stern/Istomin*
Rosand/Flissler*
Mutter/Orkis*
Szeryng/Haebler*
And the incomplete cycles or interesting single examples from
Busch/Serkin
Szeryng/Rubinstein
Milstein/Balsam or Firkusny
Kagan/Richter*
Morini/Firkusny
Ferras/Barbizet
Not to mention the HIP stuff, since several have already been mentioned.
(* Haven't heard these myself and will await comment eagerly.)
FWIW, my personal faves among complete cycles are the first four in my list. But hey, don't let that influence you.
;D
Of course, if it turns into a Todd-esque survey, my list will seem like a mere appetizer.
;)
Dirk
Quote from: Bill on April 17, 2007, 07:22:15 PM
Are you interested in only complete cycles Don?
No, but mixed discs are not included.
Quote from: Don on April 17, 2007, 08:12:24 PM
No, but mixed discs are not included.
Don
Are you purchasing all the discs ::)
This is one that is on my wish-list that Dirk mentioned:
Busch/Serkin
Another would be, which I have not heard:
Fritz Kreisler/Franz Rupp
Quote from: dirkronk on April 17, 2007, 08:06:21 PM
If this is to be a serious survey, I think we can assume that the following will be studied:
Grumiaux/Haskil
Francescatti/Casadesus
Kremer/Argerich
Schneiderhan/Kempff
Perlman/Ashkenazy
Oistrakh/Oborin
Menuhin/Kempff
Suk/Panenka
Szigeti/Arrau (and Szigeti's Kreutzer with Bartok)
Frank/Frank
Kreisler/Rupp (and the individual sonatas with Rachmaninoff
Heifetz/Bay or Smith
Stern/Istomin*
Rosand/Flissler*
Mutter/Orkis*
Szeryng/Haebler*
don't forget menuhin/kentner ;) i like that one enough that i haven't really thought of getting another. the cello sonatas are a different story :P
Quote from: Robert on April 17, 2007, 08:24:32 PM
Don
Are you purchasing all the discs ::)
I'll be purchasing all the discs I acquire. At this point, I don't know how many that will be. Depends on finances.
Quote from: Don on April 17, 2007, 09:23:02 PM
I'll be purchasing all the discs I acquire. At this point, I don't know how many that will be. Depends on finances.
Don,
I am sure I am not the only one that appreciates all the time and effort that you have put into all your reviews over the years. For that I want to tell you how much I appreciate all your work...I would like to know what motivates you to do all these massive projects....
Quote from: dirkronk on April 17, 2007, 08:06:21 PM
Kagan/Richter*
Don't know if this is permissable on this thread (;D) but if I were to ward Don off any recording for this survey it would be this one...much as it pains me to say so.
But not for musical reasons. Rather, purely sonic ones. This is an absolute disaster of a recording. Not that sound should be an issue, of course, but when it comes to stereo-era recordings this listener at least would rather not have to suffer through sonic trauma.
I used to own this disc and nothing came through for me but the painfully bad sound (it's live). Eventually I sold it off. YMMV (or in this case, D'sMMV).
Talk of this disc however reminds me of a very worthy contender for this survey: Kagan/Lobanov (on the same label as Kagan/Richter: Live Classics). Exceptionally well done, full of energy and insight and this time in good recorded sound.
(http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/P/B000025V63.01._SCLZZZZZZZ_V45778280_SS500_.jpg)
Quote from: George on April 17, 2007, 06:30:57 PM
Paging Mr. Que..............Mr. Que, there is a telephone call for you....................Mr. Que?
LOL! ;D ;D
I'm on the look for HIP sets myself and the only
complete cycle I know of sofar, is this one.
I haven't got it myself - it's on my list. So
Don, I'll be interested in your findings! :D
(http://www.wyastone.co.uk/nrl/main/images/5557.jpg)
Q
In no particular order:
Ferras - Barbizet
Pamela and Claude Frank
Grumiaux and Haskil
Hors concours, but a personal love:
Szigeti and Arrau
I have just recorded off-air the complete 10 played by Christian Tetzlaff and Alexander Lonquich. From sampling, this seems to be excellent.
Harry - Ferras & Barbizet on EMI - what are their virtues please? Cheers - Lee
Francescatti/Casadesus.
Quote from: Don on April 17, 2007, 04:25:18 PMPlaying on the Claves set are pianist Paavali Jumppanen and violinist Corey Cerovsek.
I have the set on order at Arkiv; hopefully they come through, otherwise I'll order from MDT. I definitely want to hear it as the two recordings of Jumppanen I have are both good enough to make me want to hear more.
As to other cycles, seeing as how I don't know what you have, I'd say the Grumiaux / Haskil and Francescatti / Casadesus sets are musts, with the Ferras / Barbizet and Frank / Frank as pretty much must-haves. (if memory serves, you aren't a big fan of the father-daughter tandem in the Schubert works, though.) Do report back on your findings.
Quote from: donwyn on April 17, 2007, 09:34:11 PM
Don't know if this is permissable on this thread (;D) but if I were to ward Don off any recording for this survey it would be this one (Kagan/Richter)...much as it pains me to say so....This is an absolute disaster of a recording...
Talk of this disc however reminds me of a very worthy contender for this survey: Kagan/Lobanov (on the same label as Kagan/Richter: Live Classics). Exceptionally well done, full of energy and insight and this time in good recorded sound.
Well darn, donwyn. Sorry to hear about the Kagan/Richter on Live Classics. I wonder if this has the same performance (of #4 & #5) as on the EMI 2-CD set of Mozart/Beethoven violin sonatas that I just recently got but haven't yet listened to.
Anyway, I am glad to know about the other Kagan set. I'll keep my eyes open for that one.
Cheers,
Dirk
Quote from: Harry Collier on April 18, 2007, 03:19:57 AM
Ferras - Barbizet
I have just recorded off-air the complete 10 played by Christian Tetzlaff and Alexander Lonquich. From sampling, this seems to be excellent.
Aha! So Ferras/Barbizet did an entire cycle? I wasn't sure, since I have only a single LP of their Beethoven.
Your comment about Tetzlaff has me curious to hear his efforts. I've downloaded a couple of live performances of concerti with him as soloist and have enjoyed them, but otherwise haven't heard much from this violinist.
Dirk
Quote from: Todd on April 18, 2007, 05:07:29 AM
I have the set on order at Arkiv; hopefully they come through, otherwise I'll order from MDT. I definitely want to hear it as the two recordings of Jumppanen I have are both good enough to make me want to hear more.
As to other cycles, seeing as how I don't know what you have, I'd say the Grumiaux / Haskil and Francescatti / Casadesus sets are musts, with the Ferras / Barbizet and Frank / Frank as pretty much must-haves. (if memory serves, you aren't a big fan of the father-daughter tandem in the Schubert works, though.)
Some time back, I did a review of some Mozart Violin Concerto recordings and had unfavorable things to say about the Pamela Frank/Zinman set on Arte Nova. But I've never heard her or her dad in Schubert.
Quote from: Don on April 18, 2007, 05:34:15 AMSome time back, I did a review of some Mozart Violin Concerto recordings and had unfavorable things to say about the Pamela Frank/Zinman set on Arte Nova. But I've never heard her or her dad in Schubert.
My mistake. You may not enjoy their LvB then, though I will say that I find the violin sonatas more compelling than Pamela Frank's Mozart, though I do enjoy her Mozart.
Quote from: Que on April 17, 2007, 09:35:06 PM
LOL! ;D ;D
I'm on the look for HIP sets myself and the only complete cycle I know of sofar, is this one.
I haven't got it myself - it's on my list. So Don, I'll be interested in your findings! :D
(http://www.wyastone.co.uk/nrl/main/images/5557.jpg)
Q
Thanks for the heads-up about the Verney set; will definitely include it.
Quote from: Todd on April 18, 2007, 05:38:25 AM
My mistake. You may not enjoy their LvB then, though I will say that I find the violin sonatas more compelling than Pamela Frank's Mozart, though I do enjoy her Mozart.
No problem. My not enjoying Frank's Mozart doesn't lead me to assume I wouldn't care for her Beethoven.
Concerning HIP recordings other than the Verney, I know of an Amon Ra disc and another on the Folger Consort label.
Quote from: Robert on April 17, 2007, 09:30:14 PM
Don,
I am sure I am not the only one that appreciates all the time and effort that you have put into all your reviews over the years. For that I want to tell you how much I appreciate all your work...I would like to know what motivates you to do all these massive projects....
The motivation is a combination of thoroughness and deep love for the music. Listening to the same work for many dozens of hours carries the possbility of tiring of the composition. For example, I've twice tried to do this with Bach's Brandenburg Concertos but found that I didn't like the music sufficiently. With the WTC, Godlbergs, or Schumann's Davidsbundlertanze, it's an easy process. What's involved here is not just listening to each version once or twice, but at least a few times so I can be sure that I am intimate with every performance and my conclusions are actually final.
Quote from: Don on April 18, 2007, 05:53:22 AM
No problem. My not enjoying Frank's Mozart doesn't lead me to assume I wouldn't care for her Beethoven.
Concerning HIP recordings other than the Verney, I know of an Amon Ra disc and another on the Folger Consort label.
Don,
Well, the field in HIP is not just overrun.
You can get only one disk of the Immerseel/Schröder cycle at Amazon Marketplace, it has 5 & 9 on it. There is a 3 disk set on Cypress with Huvé/Fleezanis. And the rest, if there IS a rest, is not available. Early next year will be released Immerseel/Midori Sieler, but that's no help at all right now. I am fairly amazed, actually, that there are so very few recordings in what should be a burgeoning field. :-\
8)
Quote from: dirkronk on April 18, 2007, 05:31:35 AM
Aha! So Ferras/Barbizet did an entire cycle?
Yes, and it was an extremely cheap 4-disc set (from EMI, France).
Quote from: Rabin_Fan on April 18, 2007, 04:45:31 AM
Harry - Ferras & Barbizet on EMI - what are their virtues please? Cheers - Lee
1. Good partnership -- no sign of "star violinist plus accompanist".
2. Excellent playing from both, but particularly Ferras.
3. Very musical, civilised interpretations that concentrate on the music rather than on virtuoso playing.
As far as I know, the Fleezanis/Huvé set is actually hybrid. Her Storioni violin has been rebuilt for modern play. However she does use a period bow and bowing techniques for the set. I don't know if she retrung the violin with gut. The sound is not her usual tone, fwiw.
Another HIP cd: The cd of Andreas Staier and Daniel Sepec doing the Op. 23 and 30 - no. 2. The violin Sepec uses is one that has been documented as belonging to Beethoven. This is probably the best HIP recording of any of the sonatas I've heard.
(http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/P/B000G7EYK4.01._SCLZZZZZZZ_AA240_.jpg)
I also have the Argerich/Kremer, but for the Kreutzer, her recording with Itzhak Perlman is a lot more exciting. It also includes one of the greatest Franck sonatas as well. For other non hip sets: Maria João Pires and Agustin Dumay and Petr Messiereur (leader of the Talich Quartet) and Stanislas Bogunia also have complete sets. The Messiereur/Bogunia set picked up a Choc Award, and is really a budget winner.
(http://ec2.images-amazon.com/images/P/B00002CF0S.01._SCLZZZZZZZ_V46446496_AA240_.jpg) (http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/P/B00006AKUV.01._SCLZZZZZZZ_AA240_.jpg) (http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/P/B00006L3X6.01._SCLZZZZZZZ_V45397351_AA240_.jpg)
Quote from: Don on April 18, 2007, 05:53:22 AM
No problem. My not enjoying Frank's Mozart doesn't lead me to assume I wouldn't care for her Beethoven.
Concerning HIP recordings other than the Verney, I know of an Amon Ra disc and another on the Folger Consort label.
While the Frank Beethoven is very good, the sound quality is not. It may not interfere with your enjoyment, but I kept wishing it were better.
I just purchased the Kremer set a few weeks ago, and I would have to reccommend it quite highly.
Quote from: Steve on April 18, 2007, 08:22:58 AM
I just purchased the Kremer set a few weeks ago, and I would have to reccommend it quite highly.
What do you think of his tone on that set?
Quote from: George on April 18, 2007, 08:24:01 AM
What do you think of his tone on that set?
By tone do you mean sound quality or some other quality -- partnership, tone of instruments, etc. ?
Quote from: George on April 18, 2007, 08:24:01 AM
What do you think of his tone on that set?
Speaking of the Beethoven, the performances are quite wonderful. His tone is quite vivid, with excellent articulation, and perfect timing. The sound is just delightful.
Quote from: Bunny on April 18, 2007, 07:45:15 AM
Another HIP cd: The cd of Andreas Staier and Daniel Sepec doing the Op. 23 and 30 - no. 2. The violin Sepec uses is one that has been documented as belonging to Beethoven. This is probably the best HIP recording of any of the sonatas I've heard.
(http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/P/B000G7EYK4.01._SCLZZZZZZZ_AA240_.jpg)
I've got this one and totally agree. Although not pertinent, I also love the cover.
Quote from: Don on April 18, 2007, 08:47:26 AM
I've got this one and totally agree. Although not pertinent, I also love the cover.
Don, I believe that the cover is a picture of a "life mask" made of the composer, or rather a sculpture from one of the life masks. It certainly captures the quality of his skin which was unfashionably dark and, apparently, what was then called spotty.
(http://www.elementsofhome.com/catalog/images/detail/dt_T855.jpg) (http://www.art-bin.com/bilder/mask.jpg) (http://www.beethoven-haus-bonn.de/sixcms_upload/media/106/id3583_2.jpg)
Quote from: Bunny on April 18, 2007, 08:29:55 AM
By tone do you mean sound quality or some other quality -- partnership, tone of instruments, etc. ?
I meant the tone of Kremer's violin. I found it to be thin. :-\
Quote from: George on April 18, 2007, 09:41:04 AM
I meant the tone of Kremer's violin. I found it to be thin. :-\
You are not alone! I've heard that same complaint a number of times about Kremer's sound. That's probably why I keep looking for another set of the sonatas. However, the play is wonderful and the partnership is very well balanced as well. You should try and hear the Argerich/Perlman recording; nothing to complain about there wrt tone. The Francescatti/Casadesus also has great tone. The Messiereur/Bogunia is also characterized by a very sweet toned violin; I've gotten very fond of that set.
Quote from: George on April 18, 2007, 09:41:04 AM
I meant the tone of Kremer's violin. I found it to be thin. :-\
I've just now been listening to Sonata No. 5 in F Major, op. 24, to great pleasure and delight. Is it possible that we have different recordings of these sonatas? My recording is part of a 8-CD DG Set containing the works of Beethoven, Schumann, Brahms, and others. Perhaps the Beethoven sonatas are not the same found on your set. I find the tone rather full, and rich, and certainly not thin. These must be different recorgins. ???
Quote from: Steve on April 18, 2007, 09:48:56 AM
I've just now been listening to Sonata No. 5 in F Major, op. 24, to great pleasure and delight. Is it possible that we have different recordings of these sonatas? My recording is part of a 8-CD DG Set containing the works of Beethoven, Schumann, Brahms, and others. Perhaps the Beethoven sonatas are not the same found on your set. I find the tone rather full, and rich, and certainly not thin. These must be different recorgins. ???
No, we just have different ears. ;D
I have the same that you are referring to above.
Quote from: Bunny on April 18, 2007, 09:47:15 AM
You are not alone! I've heard that same complaint a number of times about Kremer's sound.
This is good news, seems as if I am improving, at least in my ability to hear recordings and accurately describe what I perceive. My first reaction when I heard these performances was not good, but then I thought "what do I know about violin tone?" I guess I know something... :-\
I only have Oborin/Oistrak, which is apparently a lot better than Oistrakh others Violin Sonatas on record with a pianist I can't remember.
I would definately try Serkin/Busch - I think Serkin has lots to say about Beethoven. His Piano Sonatas are bloody fabulous.
Quote from: dirkronk on April 18, 2007, 05:23:43 AM
Well darn, donwyn. Sorry to hear about the Kagan/Richter on Live Classics. I wonder if this has the same performance (of #4 & #5) as on the EMI 2-CD set of Mozart/Beethoven violin sonatas that I just recently got but haven't yet listened to.
OK, my curiosity got the best of me. I dug out the EMI set and put on the Beethoven numbers (again, we're talking 4 & 5 only). According to the notes, these performances were given in concert in 1976 in Munich and apparently recorded by EMI engineers (and even if not, they're clear that EMI holds the copyright). To my ears--and this is in listening over headphones--the sound seems good if not great, with balance fairly equal between violin and piano...even in places sounding as if the piano is given a slightly greater emphasis, but not annoyingly so. Regardless, the sonics are clean and more than listenable. I'll take the discs home later this week to check them out on serious speakers; I wouldn't make critical judgment on what I can hear on my office boombox.
This makes me even more curious to hear the Live Classics version for comparison. donwyn has already said that he no longer has the disc, but does anyone else here have it? And can you tell me what numbers are played and what information is given about dates?
Oh...and yes, I enjoyed the performances. In fact, I think I'll go back for another listen to #4 right now.
;D
Dirk
Quote from: Steve on April 18, 2007, 09:48:56 AM
I've just now been listening to Sonata No. 5 in F Major, op. 24, to great pleasure and delight. Is it possible that we have different recordings of these sonatas? My recording is part of a 8-CD DG Set containing the works of Beethoven, Schumann, Brahms, and others. Perhaps the Beethoven sonatas are not the same found on your set. I find the tone rather full, and rich, and certainly not thin. These must be different recorgins. ???
Kremer is often criticized as not having a big enough sound compared with others such as Vengerov. Heifetz was sometimes criticized for the same reason. It's all really a matter of taste.
Quote from: George on April 18, 2007, 09:56:07 AM
This is good news, seems as if I am improving, at least in my ability to hear recordings and accurately describe what I perceive. My first reaction when I heard these performances was not good, but then I thought "what do I know about violin tone?" I guess I know something... :-\
George, the performances are as good as it gets in that set. There is no way anyone could say that either Argerich or Kremer was not playing these works beautifully. The criticism is purely one that is made about the
tone of Kremer's violin. It's not a big, round, full sound like Mutter's or Vengerov's. Similar criticism was leveled at Heifetz on occasion, but I doubt that any of us would say that he was not playing brilliantly despite that. Because I love HIP performance, the lighter tone of Kremer's violin doesn't put me off at all, it also doesn't stop me from enjoying these works as done by Perlman (with Ashkenazy or Argerich) or Francescatti, or Schröder for that matter.
On modern instruments, Kremer/Argerich are my favorites on all counts, from the sound to the playing, the tempi, everything. Other than the odd disk or two by others I really don't care to have another non-HIP cycle, these are satisfactory on all counts. :)
8)
Quote from: Bunny on April 18, 2007, 01:28:25 PM
George, the performances are as good as it gets in that set. There is no way anyone could say that either Argerich or Kremer was not playing these works beautifully. The criticism is purely one that is made about the tone of Kremer's violin. It's not a big, round, full sound like Mutter's or Vengerov's. Similar criticism was leveled at Heifetz on occasion, but I doubt that any of us would say that he was not playing brilliantly despite that. Because I love HIP performance, the lighter tone of Kremer's violin doesn't put me off at all, it also doesn't stop me from enjoying these works as done by Perlman (with Ashkenazy or Argerich) or Francescatti, or Schröder for that matter.
I keep forgetting to be more careful about what I say when it comes to this stuff. When I say that my first reaction to these performances wasn't good, I meant with respect to the violin's tone only. I am not commenting on the performances, but rather the sound that Kremer produces with his instrument. However, the tone is an essential ingredient IMO. If I don't like it, it doesn't matter if the performance is greatest ever, it will be difficult for me to enjoy the performance if I don't like the tone.
Quote from: Bunny on April 18, 2007, 01:28:25 PM
Kremer is often criticized as not having a big enough sound compared with others such as Vengerov. Heifetz was sometimes criticized for the same reason. It's all really a matter of taste.
George, the performances are as good as it gets in that set. There is no way anyone could say that either Argerich or Kremer was not playing these works beautifully. The criticism is purely one that is made about the tone of Kremer's violin. It's not a big, round, full sound like Mutter's or Vengerov's. Similar criticism was leveled at Heifetz on occasion, but I doubt that any of us would say that he was not playing brilliantly despite that. Because I love HIP performance, the lighter tone of Kremer's violin doesn't put me off at all, it also doesn't stop me from enjoying these works as done by Perlman (with Ashkenazy or Argerich) or Francescatti, or Schröder for that matter.
I"d say that Vengerov tends to have a "thick" tone that I don't find advantageous for the music of composers such as Mozart.
Quote from: George on April 18, 2007, 04:13:32 PM
I keep forgetting to be more careful about what I say when it comes to this stuff. When I say that my first reaction to these performances wasn't good, I meant with respect to the violin's tone only. I am not commenting on the performances, but rather the sound that Kremer produces with his instrument. However, the tone is an essential ingredient IMO. If I don't like it, it doesn't matter if the performance is greatest ever, it will be difficult for me to enjoy the performance if I don't like the tone.
I feel the same way about the sound quality. When ever I listen to a historic recording where the sound is really "historic" it just annoys me no end. I'm always trying to decide whether the performance was really one of the greats or whether it was merely something that was recorded in such a manner that it was so much better than the other things available at the time.
Quote from: Don on April 18, 2007, 04:27:03 PM
I"d say that Vengerov tends to have a "thick" tone that I don't find advantageous for the music of composers such as Mozart.
I always think "thick as a brick" when I hear that word and whatever it is, Vengerov's fiddling isn't brick-like. However, I know what you are trying to describe*; for some reason I always think that Vengerov can't do Mozart or Beethoven because he has too much vibrato, or he's too Russian and not classical enough, or his sound is too overpowering. I wonder if his sound would really overpower the music and the accompaniment the way I imagine it would. Certainly I can't see him ever playing in an ensemble the way Repin does occasionally and it's probably an unfounded prejudice.
For some reason I just thought of marshmallow trying to imagine your "thick" tone. hehe.
Quote from: George on April 18, 2007, 09:56:07 AM
This is good news, seems as if I am improving, at least in my ability to hear recordings and accurately describe what I perceive. My first reaction when I heard these performances was not good, but then I thought "what do I know about violin tone?" I guess I know something... :-\
This is strictly a matter of taste. While I will concede that Kremer's is not as luscious or full of a tone compared with others, I don't find his sound lacking in any way. In fact, the lighter, thinner, tone of his violin, seems to give the recordings a feeling of jubilee, particularily the delightful Spring Sonata. His tone seems to be perfectly compatable with these sonatas. While I might be more concerned on a grand romantic violin concerto, for these pretty sonatas, Kremer fits the bill quite nicely. Not to mention, the fine playing of Martha Argerich. Just a remarkable performance
Quote from: Gurn Blanston on April 18, 2007, 01:59:40 PM
On modern instruments, Kremer/Argerich are my favorites on all counts, from the sound to the playing, the tempi, everything. Other than the odd disk or two by others I really don't care to have another non-HIP cycle, these are satisfactory on all counts. :)
8)
My thoughts, exactly. ;D
Quote from: dirkronk on April 18, 2007, 01:07:56 PM
OK, my curiosity got the best of me. I dug out the EMI set and put on the Beethoven numbers (again, we're talking 4 & 5 only). According to the notes, these performances were given in concert in 1976 in Munich and apparently recorded by EMI engineers (and even if not, they're clear that EMI holds the copyright). To my ears--and this is in listening over headphones--the sound seems good if not great, with balance fairly equal between violin and piano...even in places sounding as if the piano is given a slightly greater emphasis, but not annoyingly so. Regardless, the sonics are clean and more than listenable. I'll take the discs home later this week to check them out on serious speakers; I wouldn't make critical judgment on what I can hear on my office boombox.
Oh...and yes, I enjoyed the performances. In fact, I think I'll go back for another listen to #4 right now.
;D
Thanks for the report, dirk! Makes me wish I had gotten this EMI set back when...
QuoteThis makes me even more curious to hear the Live Classics version for comparison. donwyn has already said that he no longer has the disc, but does anyone else here have it? And can you tell me what numbers are played and what information is given about dates?
Details for the Live Classics disc as follows:
Recording is from Oct/Nov, 1975, Moscow.
Works are Op. 23, Op.24, & Op.12/2.
Interestingly, the date of the Live Classics Beethoven is pretty close in proximity to EMI's. And the repertoire is similar. Wonder if the two were on tour at that time?
DG released two sets the beethoven violin sonatas with the same violinist Wolfgang Schneiderhan. the first accompanied by Wilhelm Kempff is becoming out of print but still available, the other with Carl Seemann. Which is the one to have ? (i have the Grimeaux-Haskil set on Brilliant but looking for something different)
(http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/I/31K215NPF6L._SS500_.jpg)
(http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/I/51E81TV94PL._SS500_.jpg)
The ones with Kempff are classic. Old, but absolutely wonderful.
Dirk
Quote from: dirkronk on June 02, 2007, 07:40:29 AM
The ones with Kempff are classic. Old, but absolutely wonderful.
Dirk
Yes, I can second that. I have never quite heard a more powerful rendering than at the hands of Kempff.
Just so you know what you are getting -- The Schneiderhan/Kempff sonatas were recorded in the early 1950s in monophonic and the sound quality isn't the best. As I remember, the piano is not equally balanced with the violin and there are places where the piano is not clear enough, and even drowned out by the violin. It's really a pity because the performances are lovely. The Schneiderhan/Seeman sonatas aren't negligible, and their sound quality is much better. Unfortunately if you want Kempff in this repertory, the only other alternative that I know of are the Kempff/Menuhin sonatas, and Menuhin was a bit over the hill when he recorded them.
Quote from: Steve on June 02, 2007, 07:54:24 AM
Yes, I can second that. I have never quite heard a more powerful rendering than at the hands of Kempff.
I think Martha Argerich might compare well, if not for sheer power then definitely for fire. I love her work with Gidon Kremer on DG as well as her live Kreutzer with Perlman.
Quote from: Bunny on June 04, 2007, 03:09:53 PM
I think Martha Argerich might compare well, if not for sheer power then definitely for fire. I love her work with Gidon Kremer on DG ...
Seconded. :)
Quote from: Bunny on June 04, 2007, 03:09:53 PM
Just so you know what you are getting -- The Schneiderhan/Kempff sonatas were recorded in the early 1950s in monophonic and the sound quality isn't the best. As I remember, the piano is not equally balanced with the violin and there are places where the piano is not clear enough, and even drowned out by the violin. It's really a pity because the performances are lovely. The Schneiderhan/Seeman sonatas aren't negligible, and their sound quality is much better. Unfortunately if you want Kempff in this repertory, the only other alternative that I know of are the Kempff/Menuhin sonatas, and Menuhin was a bit over the hill when he recorded them.
I think Martha Argerich might compare well, if not for sheer power then definitely for fire. I love her work with Gidon Kremer on DG as well as her live Kreutzer with Perlman.
Yes, the sonics are less than ideal, but still, the performance is simply mezmerizing. Were I to give a comprehensive review on the recording, one would certainly have to take into account the dated sound, but I was speaking specifically about Kempff magical virtuoso playing.
I too, enjoyed their collaboration. I assume you'r referring to the DG Boxed Set with the sonatas of Beethoven, Brahms, Bartok..... I wish that she had accompanied him throughout the entire set, though. :)
Quote from: Steve on June 04, 2007, 03:39:43 PM
I too, enjoyed their collaboration. I assume you'r referring to the DG Boxed Set with the sonatas of Beethoven, Brahms, Bartok..... I wish that she had accompanied him throughout the entire set, though. :)
Also seconded.
Quote from: Steve on June 04, 2007, 03:39:43 PM
I too, enjoyed their collaboration. I assume you'r referring to the DG Boxed Set with the sonatas of Beethoven, Brahms, Bartok..... I wish that she had accompanied him throughout the entire set, though. :)
Below are the recordings that I have. I love the Kreutzer, but I adore the Franck. The Argerich/Kremer sonatas are also excellent.
(http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/I/410RQCT28YL._AA240_.jpg) (http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/I/514G257VVYL._AA240_.jpg)
Yes, to Argerich & Kremer.
If we're to keep to the original/titled intent of the thread, I suppose that Kremer/Argerich can be named, since they appear on DGG. And yes, they are powerful and appealing (I have only two CDs of the cycle, but I don't imagine the remainder are any less impressive). And they surely contrast well enough with Grumiaux/Haskil.
OTOH, if we're suggesting any alternatives, on any label, I wouldn't want to forget to mention Francescatti/Casadesus. Not DGG...and I'm not sure Sony still has them in print at the moment...but surely worthy. And I've personally found their approach different enough from Grumiaux/Haskil to justify keeping both (along with Schneiderhan/Kempff and probably w-a-a-a-y too many other single LP and CD samples).
;)
Dirk
Going completely outside the remit of the OP, I'd just like to stick in a good word for a set on Brilliant Classics, with Emmy Verhey (vn) and Carlos Moerdijk (pf). The recordings are live - though you'd never know this from the unbelievably quiet audience and almost total lack of any background noise; the clapping at the ends of sonatas frightens you if you're not prepared for it - and other than that I have no details. The discs can be had as part of Brilliant's Beethoven Masterworks 40-CD boxed set; itself an absolute snip at around £30. They may also be available separately, but I've never checked.
Quote from: samtrb on June 02, 2007, 07:14:31 AM
(i have the Grimeaux-Haskil set on Brilliant but looking for something different)
Well, if you
really want something
completely different, and on DG, with the players' genders reversed, I could recommend...
No, I'm not going to do it. The last time I recommended that set I had the full weight of the GMG forum come crashing down on my head ;D
Sarge
Were you about to mention the lovely Ms Mutter? If so, fire at will: I like her playing, even if it's not always as some music lovers agree it should be in various parts of her repertoire. ;D
Quote from: Mark on June 05, 2007, 05:41:14 AM
Were you about to mention the lovely Ms Mutter? If so, fire at will: I like her playing, even if it's not always as some music lovers agree it should be in various parts of her repertoire. ;D
It is just too precious and too wayward in my opinion - this "lovely" Mutter/Orkis version - I think Mutter's "older-age" conflicts with what I like - she played in a less fussy manner when she was younger.
I only have the Argerich/Kremer set and I hoping that at some point I will get used to Kremer's tone.
I listened to Haskil/Grumiaux last night and though I still think the piano sound is too blurry for my taste, I enjoyed it.
I hope to aquire the Casadesus/Francesatti the moment it goes back in print. If that should take a long time...well, let's just say that I can be reached by PM and I have an empty mailbox downstairs. ;)
Quote from: George on June 05, 2007, 06:06:09 AM
I only have the Argerich/Kremer set and I hoping that at some point I will get used to Kremer's tone.
Kremer not doing it for you?
Quote from: Mark on June 05, 2007, 06:09:45 AM
Kremer not doing it for you?
His playing, yes, his tone, no. :-\
Had a similar experience with tone recently. At the Naxos Live! 2007 concert at the Wigmore Hall, there were three different violinists. Two of them had a tone I really warmed to; the third just grated on me. >:( ;D
Quote from: George on June 05, 2007, 06:06:09 AMI listened to Haskil/Grumiaux last night and though I still think the piano sound is too blurry for my taste, I enjoyed it.
Blurry piano? Don't recall that as a problem on my LPs, but it might be my own blurry memory. Just to check it out, I should probably find time to put those vinyl goodies on the turntable again soon.
;)
Dirk
Quote from: dirkronk on June 05, 2007, 06:34:30 AM
Blurry piano? Don't recall that as a problem on my LPs, but it might be my own blurry memory. Just to check it out, I should probably find time to put those vinyl goodies on the turntable again soon.
;)
Dirk
It may have occured during the remastering, but my thinking is that sound should
improve, right? BTW, just to be clear I have the Decca, not the Brilliant re-release. Luckily, the violin sounds decent. The way I picture it is the listener is sitting in the far corner of a room. Grumiaux is playing in a doorway, located at the opposite corner of the room. Haskil is behind him, down the hall a bit. :-\
Quote from: dirkronk on June 05, 2007, 05:15:17 AM
If we're to keep to the original/titled intent of the thread, I suppose that Kremer/Argerich can be named, since they appear on DGG. And yes, they are powerful and appealing (I have only two CDs of the cycle, but I don't imagine the remainder are any less impressive). And they surely contrast well enough with Grumiaux/Haskil.
OTOH, if we're suggesting any alternatives, on any label, I wouldn't want to forget to mention Francescatti/Casadesus. Not DGG...and I'm not sure Sony still has them in print at the moment...but surely worthy. And I've personally found their approach different enough from Grumiaux/Haskil to justify keeping both (along with Schneiderhan/Kempff and probably w-a-a-a-y too many other single LP and CD samples).
;)
Dirk
Quote from: George on June 05, 2007, 06:06:09 AM
I only have the Argerich/Kremer set and I hoping that at some point I will get used to Kremer's tone.
I listened to Haskil/Grumiaux last night and though I still think the piano sound is too blurry for my taste, I enjoyed it.
I hope to aquire the Casadesus/Francesatti the moment it goes back in print. If that should take a long time...well, let's just say that I can be reached by PM and I have an empty mailbox downstairs. ;)
Sony has let the Casadesus/Francescatti go out of print, although used copies are around. However, this is one of the titles licensed by Arkivmusic.com, so anyone can buy an exact audio copy of the music on cd-rom from them. Here's the link (http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/Drilldown?name_id1=858&name_role1=1&name_id2=1987&name_role2=2&bcorder=21&comp_id=28603). I'd check to see if there are any used copies available first, as these don't come with liner notes. However, if the used cds aren't in great condition or the price is exhorbitant, these are a better alternative.
Quote from: Bunny on June 05, 2007, 07:02:22 AM
Sony has let the Casadesus/Francescatti go out of print, although used copies are around. However, this is one of the titles licensed by Arkivmusic.com, so anyone can buy an exact audio copy of the music on cd-rom from them. Here's the link (http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/Drilldown?name_id1=858&name_role1=1&name_id2=1987&name_role2=2&bcorder=21&comp_id=28603). I'd check to see if there are any used copies available first, as these don't come with liner notes. However, if the used cds aren't in great condition or the price is exhorbitant, these are a better alternative.
Thanks Bunny, wait, $45 for CD-R's? ???
Quote from: George on June 05, 2007, 07:05:37 AM
Thanks Bunny, wait, $45 for CD-R's? ???
I know, exorbitant! However, the last time I saw a complete 3 cd set for sale at Amazon, the condition was listed as used-good and it was offered for about the same price. I find that Arkiv sells their copies at about the same price as the drm free downloads, and at least with these you get the complete, uncompressed and unprotected music files. It's not a budget selection, though.
There is a cd that's still around of 3 of the sonatas that is much cheaper, but not the whole cycle.
(http://g-ec2.images-amazon.com/images/I/51MXACF7PWL._SS500_.jpg)
Thanks, I will look for that! I love that series and hate the new edition of it. The cover art? is terrible.
Quote from: George on June 05, 2007, 07:50:12 AM
Thanks, I will look for that! I love that series and hate the new edition of it. The cover art? is terrible.
I think that's one of the old covers. It dates from 1990 -- I picked this up used a while ago. The cover is actually a painting by Rudolph Friedrich Wasmann (1805-1886), a Hamburg painter in the German Romantic tradition whose landscapes are much nicer than this illustration.
(http://www.art-prints-on-demand.com/kunst/rudolf_friedrich_wasmann/view_countryside_tyrol_hi.jpg)
Yeah, i actually like the cover you posted... the newer Sony essentials are poor, just solid blue/red/black background. ::)
Quote from: George on June 05, 2007, 06:56:36 AM
It may have occured during the remastering, but my thinking is that sound should improve, right?
That, of course, is the big bugaboo about remastering!
Is the newest transfer in reality going to give us "more of what we want", sound-wise?
Most times, in my experience, they do just that.
However, the classical music (and jazz) literature is filled with stories of botched remastering jobs, leading up even to present day.
Despite the fact we live in a most advanced time technically for transfer work it still boils down to the hand of the transfer engineer and if the talent isn't there all the advances technologically won't mean a lick.
By and large the success rate in this day and age is very high but sometimes with all the best intentions the transfer is a failure. It can be subtle, as in changing slightly the tone of an instrument, but it's a defect nonetheless.
I personally own identical DG recordings in CD transfers fifteen years apart (with different couplings) but actually prefer the FIRST CD transfer by a great margin!
What happened with the new transfer? To my ears, simply too much fiddling to 'create' good sound instead of keeping the integrity and naturalness of what was pretty good sound to begin with (it's Prokofiev's Richter/Rowicki 5th PC recording).
Anyway, the point of all this is the new Decca remastering of the Grumiaux/Haskil Beethoven VS set may very well be less successful than anticipated. Like Dirk, my earlier Philips CD transfer has little of the 'blurry' piano sound and I'd be loathe if Decca botched the transfer work of this most highly anticipated of sets (for me, anyway).
Time will tell, I suppose.
(Just thinking out loud, BTW! :))
Quote from: donwyn on June 05, 2007, 06:44:18 PM
That, of course, is the big bugaboo about remastering!
Is the newest transfer in reality going to give us "more of what we want", sound-wise?
Most times, in my experience, they do just that.
However, the classical music (and jazz) literature is filled with stories of botched remastering jobs, leading up even to present day.
Not to mention the CD releases that don't do the original LP's justice. :-[
Quote
Despite the fact we live in a most advanced time technically for transfer work it still boils down to the hand of the transfer engineer and if the talent isn't there all the advances technologically won't mean a lick.
By and large the success rate in this day and age is very high but sometimes with all the best intentions the transfer is a failure. It can be subtle, as in changing slightly the tone of an instrument, but it's a defect nonetheless.
Agreed. :)
Quote
I personally own identical DG recordings in CD transfers fifteen years apart (with different couplings) but actually prefer the FIRST CD transfer by a great margin!
What happened with the new transfer? To my ears, simply too much fiddling to 'create' good sound instead of keeping the integrity and naturalness of what was pretty good sound to begin with (it's Prokofiev's Richter/Rowicki 5th PC recording).
Which was the new? I have the Originals version. :-\
Quote
Anyway, the point of all this is the new Decca remastering of the Grumiaux/Haskil Beethoven VS set may very well be less successful than anticipated. Like Dirk, my earlier Philips CD transfer has little of the 'blurry' piano sound and I'd be loathe if Decca botched the transfer work of this most highly anticipated of sets (for me, anyway).
Time will tell, I suppose.
(Just thinking out loud, BTW! :))
No, hey, thanks for letting us inside your head. Could you direct me to the exit? ;D
Quote from: George on June 05, 2007, 06:58:50 PM
Not to mention the CD releases that don't do the original LP's justice. :-[
Indeed, George. :-\
QuoteWhich was the new? I have the Originals version. :-\
The Originals transfer is the one I'm not so hot on.
I'm more a fan of this earlier one:
(http://www.jpc.de/image/cover/front/0/5145636.jpg)
QuoteNo, hey, thanks for letting us inside your head. Could you direct me to the exit? ;D
Why I oughtta...... ;D
Quote from: donwyn on June 05, 2007, 07:21:01 PM
The Originals transfer is the one I'm not so hot on.
I'm more a fan of this earlier one:
(http://www.jpc.de/image/cover/front/0/5145636.jpg)
Yes, the coupling is incredible, much better than the usual one for his Rach 2. I think my main beef with the Originals version was that the piano seemed WAY too far forward. :-\
Quote from: George on June 05, 2007, 07:24:32 PM
I think my main beef with the Originals version was that the piano seemed WAY too far forward. :-\
Just gave the two a spot twirl and yes, the balance on the Originals is certainly off!
The piano is much too far forward. To the point of distraction.
Which is a far cry from the recording I posted (the pic) in which the piano/orchestra balance is ideal! Partners all the way.
Honestly, I fail to see the value in repositioning the piano so far forward on the Originals transfer. Should've left well enough alone...
Quote from: donwyn on June 05, 2007, 07:53:54 PM
Just gave the two a spot twirl and yes, the balance on the Originals is certainly off!
The piano is much too far forward. To the point of distraction.
Which is a far cry from the recording I posted (the pic) in which the piano/orchestra balance is ideal! Partners all the way.
Honestly, I fail to see the value in repositioning the piano so far forward on the Originals transfer. Should've left well enough alone...
Thanks for that...I now must track down a reasonable copy of the earlier one.
Quote from: George on June 05, 2007, 07:56:14 PM
Thanks for that...I now must track down a reasonable copy of the earlier one.
I had a feeling this might happen! ;D
Quote from: Bunny on June 04, 2007, 03:09:53 PM
I think Martha Argerich might compare well, if not for sheer power then definitely for fire. I love her work with Gidon Kremer on DG as well as her live Kreutzer with Perlman.
Agreed.
Years ago I bought the complete violin sonatas by Jos van Immerseel and Jaap Schroder on period instruments (DHM). Though not perfect it remains easily the best recording I have heard of this music overall. I've got some extracts from this set at my site in the 'Beethoven Fortepiano showcase' topic. After one listen of this set I gave my Perlman/Ashkenazy recordings away.
Quote from: Rod Corkin on December 08, 2007, 09:25:03 AM
After one listen of this set I gave my Perlman/Ashkenazy recordings away.
I got rid of that years ago - it's horrible. 8)
Q
HIP - while I'm not a great fan this
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51IMChZKyyL._AA240_.jpg)
was such a promising start and went nowhere - a pity!
I bought this set after it was placed in Fanfare magazine's "Hall of Fame".....and I like it.
(http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/P/B00006AKUV.01._SCLZZZZZZZ_AA240_.jpg)
Boy, I forgot about this thread - 8 months or so w/o a post until today!
Wondering if Don has any listening comparisons to share w/ others?
Also, any comments on the few HIP recordings mentioned previously or any other performances released? :)
Quote from: SonicMan on December 08, 2007, 12:57:16 PM
...Also, any comments on the few HIP recordings mentioned previously or any other performances released? :)
Here's a comment on HIP F & V sonatas: I think it was mean as hell of Rod to revitalize this thread with a post about a set that none of us can get as it has been OOP for years. At least it should have been an announcement that it was being reissued... >:( :)
8)
----------------
Now playing: Friedrich Gernsheim: Symphonies Nos. 1-4 - Staatsphilharmonie Rheinland-Pfalz - Gernsheim Op 32 Symphony #1 in g ('Seiner theueren Mutter') 4th mvmt - Allegro moderato assai
Quote from: Gurn Blanston on December 08, 2007, 01:15:10 PM
Here's a comment on HIP F & V sonatas: I think it was mean as hell of Rod to revitalize this thread with a post about a set that none of us can get as it has been OOP for years. At least it should have been an announcement that it was being reissued... >:( :)
Gurn - LOL! ;D Isn't that often the case on this forum - ;) :D Dave
Quote from: SonicMan on December 08, 2007, 01:32:05 PM
Gurn - LOL! ;D Isn't that often the case on this forum - ;) :D Dave
Dave,
Yes indeed, it is frequently the case. Although scarcely any of them bother me as much as this one does, since I have been searching for it for years. Blast the man! ;)
8)
----------------
Now playing: Friedrich Gernsheim: Symphonies Nos. 1-4 - Staatsphilharmonie Rheinland-Pfalz - Gernsheim Op 54 Symphony #3 in c ('Mirjam') 2nd mvmt - Molto adagio ("Mirjams Gesang")
Quote from: Gurn Blanston on December 08, 2007, 01:37:37 PM
scarcely any of them bother me as much as this one does, since I have been searching for it for years.
Their Spring and Kreutzer are available (baroque esprit), but I do prefer Johnson/Newman apart from the instrument tone.
Quote from: fl.traverso on December 08, 2007, 09:50:09 PM
... but I do prefer Johnson/Newman apart from the instrument tone.
Explain please. :)
8)
----------------
Now playing: Berlin Philharmonic Orchestra / Ferenc Fricsay - LvB Op 125 Symphony #9 in d 4th mvmt
Quote from: Gurn Blanston on December 09, 2007, 05:08:05 AM
Explain please. :)
8)
Johnson/Newman was recorded somewhat too closely and the attacks (there are plenty) sound harsh but the interpretation is bold and vivid. Schroeder/Immerseel drags in comparison, with Schroeder's intonation sounding
highly suspect in the Kreutzer, clearly the more technically challenging of the two. But their instruments are
more smoothly recorded.
Quote from: fl.traverso on December 09, 2007, 06:15:14 AM
Johnson/Newman was recorded somewhat too closely and the attacks (there are plenty) sound harsh but the interpretation is bold and vivid. Schroeder/Immerseel drags in comparison, with Schroeder's intonation sounding
highly suspect in the Kreutzer, clearly the more technically challenging of the two. But their instruments are
more smoothly recorded.
Ah, I see. This morning I went ahead and bought that Schröder/Immerseel, so I will be able to hear it for myself. Given the other things I have heard by these two, I admit to a little surprise over "dragging". But hey, anything can happen. :)
Thanks,
8)
----------------
Now playing: Brahms Works for Piano - Steven Kovacevich - Brahms Variations & Fugue On A Theme By Handel For Piano Op 24
Quote from: Gurn Blanston on December 09, 2007, 07:59:45 AM
But hey, anything can happen. :)
Exactly. I was virtually in a shock when I first heard Johnson/Newman - how could they take the music at tempi this fast!? But once I got used to its imagination and eloquence, others allegros - you got it - sound like
molto moderato or, worse,
doppio wimppio. ;)
Quote from: fl.traverso on December 09, 2007, 09:56:47 AM
Exactly. I was virtually in a shock when I first heard Johnson/Newman - how could they take the music at tempi this fast!? But once I got used to its imagination and eloquence, others allegros - you got it - sound like molto moderato or, worse, doppio wimppio. ;)
Which is why I, not really an HIP fan, was disappointed that this was a one off!
Quote from: SonicMan on December 08, 2007, 12:57:16 PM
Boy, I forgot about this thread - 8 months or so w/o a post until today!
Wondering if Don has any listening comparisons to share w/ others?
I forgot about it also. I did pick up the Claves set, then went to Europe for the month of June. For better or worse, I never did continue to pursue the project.
Any word on the newly HIP Immerseel/Seiler issue? (on Zig Zag).
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41vOFecapRL._AA240_.jpg) (http://www.zigzag-territoires.com/article.php3?id_article=1281&lang=en)
Just read a 10-10-10 review on Klassik-heute (http://www.klassik-heute.de/kh/3cds/20071207_18605.shtml) (in German), which is rare in those quarters.
Still, one positive review doesn't make a great recording - we'll see. :)
Q
Quote from: Que on December 09, 2007, 09:16:21 PM
Any word on the newly HIP Immerseel/Seiler issue? (on Zig Zag).
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41vOFecapRL._AA240_.jpg) (http://www.zigzag-territoires.com/article.php3?id_article=1281&lang=en)
Just read a 10-10-10 review on Klassik-heute (http://www.klassik-heute.de/kh/3cds/20071207_18605.shtml) (in German), which is rare in those quarters.
Still, one positive review doesn't make a great recording - we'll see. :)
Q
I have heard this disk. In comparison with Immerseel's earlier set I would say the violinist has a superior technique, but the overall interpretation offers no improvement, in fact if anything I would say overall the earlier recording of Op12 from the set is better. Despite some intonation issues and occasional too moderate tempi, I still say all things considered the Schroeder/Immerseel set is the best set of this music to date, by a significant margin. Not that there are many good sets available to choose from.
Quote from: Don on December 09, 2007, 01:15:22 PM
For better or worse, I never did continue to pursue the project.
You could at least
thank us for 4 pages worth of valuable, thoughtful, selfless input........
For sheer elegance of phrasing, Francescatti/Casadesus is the set I turn to. Perlman/Ashkenazy, as someone said above, are dreadfully dull by comparison.
Quote from: D Minor on December 11, 2007, 02:56:50 AM
You could at least thank us for 4 pages worth of valuable, thoughtful, selfless input........
Thanks to all of you. ;)
Quote from: Rod Corkin on December 11, 2007, 02:50:46 AM
I have heard this disk. In comparison with Immerseel's earlier set I would say the violinist has a superior technique, but the overall interpretation offers no improvement, in fact if anything I would say overall the earlier recording of Op12 from the set is better. Despite some intonation issues and occasional too moderate tempi, I still say all things considered the Schroeder/Immerseel set is the best set of this music to date, by a significant margin. Not that there are many good sets available to choose from.
On the contrary, I think there are many excellent sets around (modern and period instruments)
Quote from: Don on December 11, 2007, 02:20:34 PM
Thanks to all of you. ;)
Seldom does one encounter such a warm, sincere, heartfelt "thankyou" ........ Makes me shed a tear .......
Quote from: Don on December 11, 2007, 02:21:38 PM
On the contrary, I think there are many excellent sets around (modern and period instruments)
Well, in the case of period instruments that might be a bit of an exaggeration, Don. For one thing, there aren't a lot of sets around. Secondly, they aren't all excellent. That said, I am far more willing to accept and enjoy than Rod is. He will never be satisfied, even with a single sonata, let alone a whole cycle. But that's not my problem, or yours. :D
8)
----------------
Now playing:
Sviatoslav Richter - Schubert - Fantasy in C for Piano D 760
Quote from: Don on December 11, 2007, 02:21:38 PM
On the contrary, I think there are many excellent sets around (modern and period instruments)
One's excellence is another's mediocrity? ;)
Quote from: fl.traverso on December 11, 2007, 02:38:08 PM
One's excellence is another's mediocrity? ;)
Excellent post.
Quote from: D Minor on December 11, 2007, 02:40:51 PM
Excellent post.
Mediocre, actually :P
:D
8)
----------------
Now playing:
Swedish RSO / Goodman - Berwald Overture to Estrella di Soria 1841
Quote from: D Minor on December 11, 2007, 03:53:29 PM
Excellent point, Gurn ........
No, that's commonplace (as far as disagreements go). ;)
Quote from: fl.traverso on December 11, 2007, 10:44:22 PM
No, that's commonplace (as far as disagreements go). ;)
A Yang for every Yin... :)
8)
Quote from: Gurn Blanston on December 11, 2007, 02:42:10 PM
----------------
Now playing:
Swedish RSO / Goodman - Berwald Overture to Estrella di Soria 1841
Nice of you, Gurn, telling us what you are listening to, but simply the announcement won't persuade me to go and buy it, and listen to it! How about telling me WHY you are listening; maybe something about the conducting, the orchestral performance. I don't even know if there is anything vocal involved. Come on, Gurn, you can do it, inform and educate me, don't just list the amazon Marketplace ad! :-*
Quote from: uffeviking on December 12, 2007, 11:56:53 AM
Nice of you, Gurn, telling us what you are listening to, but simply the announcement won't persuade me to go and buy it, and listen to it! How about telling me WHY you are listening; maybe something about the conducting, the orchestral performance. I don't even know if there is anything vocal involved. Come on, Gurn, you can do it, inform and educate me, don't just list the amazon Marketplace ad! :-*
I don't type any of that, or cut and paste it either. My clever little Foxy Tunes puts it in automatically. But when I actually post in "What are you listening to?", I answer all your questions, and more! ;)
8)
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Now playing: Haydn Symphonies 41 - 43 Tafelmusik - Tafelmusik / Bruno Weil - Hob 01 043 Symphony #43 in Eb 2nd mvmt - Adagio (because they are simply the best chamber symphony HIP performances of Haydn. Wish I had the whole cycle!)
Quote from: fl.traverso on December 09, 2007, 06:15:14 AM
Johnson/Newman was recorded somewhat too closely and the attacks (there are plenty) sound harsh but the interpretation is bold and vivid. Schroeder/Immerseel drags in comparison, with Schroeder's intonation sounding
highly suspect in the Kreutzer, clearly the more technically challenging of the two. But their instruments are
more smoothly recorded.
Just got this yesterday, and sadly, I have to agree with your statements here. The Kreutzer is the jewel in
the crown of these works, and of all the performances I have of it, this was among the least satisfying, HIP or modern. The Op 24 is quite fine though.
The one complete HIP cycle I have is Huve/Fleezanis, and despite objections I have heard from other quarters, I find it to be kick-ass all the way through. So, I now look forward to Seiler/Immerseel as the next choice. :)
8)
I suppose I am completely out of the loop because I prefer Anne Sophie Mutter's Kreuzer?? Talk about kick-ass! You haven't been kicked until Sopherl lands her steely, mountain-climbing trained, jogging-strengthened, Yoga-conditioned foot on your posterior! ;D
Quote from: Gurn Blanston on December 18, 2007, 10:06:28 AM
Just got this yesterday, and sadly, I have to agree with your statements here. The Kreutzer is the jewel in
the crown of these works, and of all the performances I have of it, this was among the least satisfying, HIP or modern. The Op 24 is quite fine though.
The one complete HIP cycle I have is Huve/Fleezanis, and despite objections I have heard from other quarters, I find it to be kick-ass all the way through. So, I now look forward to Seiler/Immerseel as the next choice. :)
8)
What do you think of Staier/Sepec,
Gurn? :)
(http://cover6.cduniverse.com/CDUCoverArt/Music/Large/7315212.jpg)
Q
Oh, did I forget to mention that Anne Sophie Mutter also is one of the best violinists? ;)
Quote from: Que on December 18, 2007, 10:49:42 AM
What do you think of Staier/Sepec, Gurn? :)
(http://cover6.cduniverse.com/CDUCoverArt/Music/Large/7315212.jpg)
Q
Unfortunately I don't have that disk yet, Q, but Staier is one of my favorite pianists, I'm sure I will like it when I finally reel it in. Also, those are 2 of my favorite sonatas, I would have much rather had those than yet another version of Spring and Kreutzer, but that's the only one I could find of Schröder/Immerseel to try. So it goes... :(
8)
Quote from: uffeviking on December 18, 2007, 10:58:16 AM
Oh, did I forget to mention that Anne Sophie Mutter also is one of the best violinists? ;)
That's certainly a point of consideration... :)
8)
Quote from: Que on December 18, 2007, 10:49:42 AM
What do you think of Staier/Sepec, Gurn? :)
(http://cover6.cduniverse.com/CDUCoverArt/Music/Large/7315212.jpg)
Q
I have this disk, you may have read my rather concise review of it at my site only yesterday...? 8)
Quote from: Que on December 18, 2007, 10:49:42 AM
What do you think of Staier/Sepec, Gurn? :)
(http://cover6.cduniverse.com/CDUCoverArt/Music/Large/7315212.jpg)
Q
Well, I have it now, and I must say, I am very pleased with it. I was unfamiliar with Sepec, so didn't know what to expect of him, but he has a very bold attack, nice intonation, and they play the tempos that I fully expect from an HIP performance. The sound is great, BTW. I only regret now that I waited so long to pick this up. And that it is likely a one-off. I would love to hear the complete F & V works by this duo! :)
----------------
Now playing: Beethoven: Violin and Piano Sonatas - Andreas Staier, Daniel Sepec - Sonate No. 4 Op. 23 en la mineur.: I. Presto
Those forum posters who like the Grumiaux-Haskil version - if I have the old box set of 12 CDs of Haskil's work on Philips, is it worth upgrading to the Brilliant Classics or the Decca re-mastering of this famous set? Thanks.
Quote from: MichaelRabin on December 20, 2007, 10:39:18 PM
Those forum posters who like the Grumiaux-Haskil version - if I have the old box set of 12 CDs of Haskil's work on Philips, is it worth upgrading to the Brilliant Classics or the Decca re-mastering of this famous set? Thanks.
Believe it or not, the Brilliant Classics is better than the Decca, so if you decide to get it, I would go with that one.
Quote from: Gurn Blanston on December 20, 2007, 07:07:42 PM
Well, I have it now, and I must say, I am very pleased with it. I was unfamiliar with Sepec, so didn't know what to expect of him, but he has a very bold attack, nice intonation, and they play the tempos that I fully expect from an HIP performance. The sound is great, BTW. I only regret now that I waited so long to pick this up. And that it is likely a one-off. I would love to hear the complete F & V works by this duo! :)
Great Gurn! :) I was also impressed when sampling online - as I was with the trios disc with Queyras, that's on my wishlist as well.
Quote from: Rod Corkin on December 20, 2007, 12:05:58 PM
I have this disk, you may have read my rather concise review of it at my site only yesterday...? 8)
I can't find it, Rod.
Besides, I sort of gave up on your forum which seems to be on two main themes: yet another "Bach vs Händel" thread, and "Mozart was a fake". Not exeactly my cup of tea... 8)
Q
Quote from: George on December 20, 2007, 10:59:42 PM
Believe it or not, the Brilliant Classics is better than the Decca, so if you decide to get it, I would go with that one.
George - is the Brilliant mastering better than the original Haskil 12 CD set - if you have that too? Thanks. MR
Quote from: Que on December 09, 2007, 09:16:21 PM
Any word on the newly HIP Immerseel/Seiler issue? (on Zig Zag).
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41vOFecapRL._AA240_.jpg) (http://www.zigzag-territoires.com/article.php3?id_article=1281&lang=en)
Just read a 10-10-10 review on Klassik-heute (http://www.klassik-heute.de/kh/3cds/20071207_18605.shtml) (in German), which is rare in those quarters.
Still, one positive review doesn't make a great recording - we'll see. :)
Q
I have now obtained the disc (£2!), and my (initial) impression is a pretty positive one as well. Technically secure and interpretatively full of subtlety and wit (if not fire). The instruments
are both very well captured sonically even though some may prefer the violin a bit less prominent. Not an earth-shaking recording but a really good choice nevertheless given the current paucity in competition
Quote from: fl.traverso on January 05, 2008, 12:41:07 AM
I have now obtained the disc (£2!),
Lucky you! :)
Quoteand my (initial) impression is a pretty positive one as well. Technically secure and interpretatively full of subtlety and wit (if not fire). The instruments are both very well captured sonically even though some may prefer the violin a bit less prominent. Not an earth-shaking recording but a really good choice nevertheless given the current paucity in competition
Thanks. It seems we have then now two competing HIP cycles in progress: Staier/Sepec (at least I hope they will follow with more) & Immerseel/Seiler. I intend to give both a try.
Q
Complete, if possible. Any help is hugely appreciated, and please forgive if this has been done to death.
Quote from: Haffner on January 10, 2008, 02:40:38 PM
Complete, if possible. Any help is hugely appreciated, and please forgive if this has been done to death.
I could offer a VERY long list, but I'll just hit my personal highlights:
Grumiaux/Haskil (Philips or--I think--a recently released Brilliant box)--still my all-time fave, bar none.
Francescatti/Casadesus--different enough to supplement G/H, a wonderful set IF you can find it now.
Schneiderhan/Kempff--mono but oh so fine, still available on DGG I think.
Kremer/Argerich--I THINK these are available complete, but I have only two CDs; the most recently-recorded contenders in my pantheon (though Argerich's live outing with Perlman at Saratoga in 9 trumps Kremer IMO).
There are really so many fine ones...and I'm sure that there's a thread from last year sometime on this board.
Cheers,
Dirk
AHA! Found the old thread: http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,357.0.html
If you look well down on the first page of the thread, you'll find a post from me that proves my "long list" comment. ;D
Andy - check out THIS THREAD (http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,357.0.html) started by Don a while back - I still have the same sets; the Franks are a bargain! :D Dave
Quote from: SonicMan on January 10, 2008, 03:09:12 PM
Andy - check out THIS THREAD (http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,357.0.html) started by Don a while back - I still have the same sets; the Franks are a bargain! :D Dave
Thanks all! I'm still sampling and enjoying the Grimiaux...
Quote from: Haffner on January 10, 2008, 03:13:45 PM
Thanks all! I'm still sampling and enjoying the Grimiaux...
My problem with that one is that the piano sounds like it was down the hall from the studio when they recorded the sonatas. :-\
Quote from: SonicMan on January 10, 2008, 03:09:12 PM
Andy - check out THIS THREAD (http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,357.0.html) started by Don a while back - I still have the same sets; the Franks are a bargain! :D Dave
Quote from: Haffner on January 10, 2008, 03:13:45 PM
Thanks all! I'm still sampling and enjoying the Grimiaux...
Andy, we suggest that you approach this thread the same way that the other threadmaster did: (http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,357.0.html) specifically, you should generate over 100 helpful, thoughful comments about LvB's violin sonatas, and then simply ignore the whole thread ........ and refrain from acting upon the large outpouring of insightful recommendations ........
Quote from: Dm on January 10, 2008, 07:23:19 PM
Andy, we suggest that you approach this thread the same way that the other threadmaster did: (http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,357.0.html) specifically, you should generate over 100 helpful, thoughful comments about LvB's violin sonatas, and then simply ignore the whole thread ........ and refrain from acting upon the large outpouring of insightful recommendations ........
I'm currently too busy gasping in hilarity at the web link you put under your signature. You kick ass,
Dmitri.
Quote from: George on January 10, 2008, 06:46:54 PM
My problem with that one is that the piano sounds like it was down the hall from the studio when they recorded the sonatas. :-\
Sorry to hear that, George. I don't recall getting that impression when listening to my LPs of the performances. The violin IS a bit forward compared to the piano but not grotesquely so--or so my aural memory tells me (last time I sampled 'em was a month or so ago). What label is your Grumiaux/Haskil set on? I note that both Decca and Brilliant offer them now, and was contemplating a purchase so I could listen to these at the office. Has anyone heard both? Or has anyone seen a review that compared both?
Dirk
Quote from: dirkronk on January 11, 2008, 05:11:30 AM
Sorry to hear that, George. I don't recall getting that impression when listening to my LPs of the performances. The violin IS a bit forward compared to the piano but not grotesquely so--or so my aural memory tells me (last time I sampled 'em was a month or so ago). What label is your Grumiaux/Haskil set on?
Decca.
Quote
I note that both Decca and Brilliant offer them now, and was contemplating a purchase so I could listen to these at the office. Has anyone heard both? Or has anyone seen a review that compared both?
Dirk
Haven't heard both and the closest I found to a review was this:
http://wm05.allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p=amg&token=&sql=43:153860~T1 (http://wm05.allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p=amg&token=&sql=43:153860~T1)
Thanks, George. Well, here's a conundrum presented by that review...
"Oddly enough, though, the sound seems to be quite different in both issues. Decca's is big and boomy with a healthy dollop of reverb, while Brilliant's sound is dry and distant with minimal, or at least minimized, reverb. This is particularly odd since Philip's original LP sound was slightly dry but deep with a reasonable amount of reverb. Thus, those interested in Grumiaux and Haskil's Beethoven sonatas are presented with two very different sonic alternatives in these reissues."
Based on this description, I'd be hard pressed to make either choice. As it is, though, I'll probably try the Brilliant set. I'm not sure "big and boomy" and "reverb" appeal to me...and I'm definitely not getting rid of my LPs.
Cheers,
Dirk
Quote from: Haffner on January 11, 2008, 05:10:10 AM
I'm currently too busy gasping in hilarity at the web link you put under your signature. You kick ass, Dmitri.
Feel free to visit that link whenever you're constipated ....... or in need of a vomitory ......... >:D
The Brilliant version of the Grumiaux/Haskil collaborations - to my ears - sounds very distant and...er..."dull".
Stragely. Because the Decca reissue sounds very (overly) "bright" and...uhm..."glare-y".
Seems like the two versions could benefit by an engineer coming in and splitting the difference between the two. ???
I've got a couple of sets of people doing this music, but I just feel like I am missing something, like somehow the music is greater than what the performers are communicating. Below are the sets I already have, additional recommendations are appreciated.
Ashkenazy/Perlman
Argerich/Kremer
Pires/Dumay
One note, I tend to prefer angular/driven type performances over beautiful/poised performances.
Quote from: Tyson on November 20, 2008, 01:37:27 PM
I've got a couple of sets of people doing this music, but I just feel like I am missing something, like somehow the music is greater than what the performers are communicating. Below are the sets I already have, additional recommendations are appreciated.
Ashkenazy/Perlman
Argerich/Kremer
Pires/Dumay
One note, I tend to prefer angular/driven type performances over beautiful/poised performances.
That being true, it is hard to imagine being dissatisfied with Kremer/Argerich. My favorite modern instrument performance by far. Curious what you find unsatisfactory about it particularly. :)
8)
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Listening to:
Haydn String Quartets Op 50 - Kodaly Quartet - Haydn Quartet in Eb for Strings No 38 Op 50 3 4th mvmt
Kremer/Argerich is close, but not quite intense/aggressive enough for me. Maybe I should check out Mutter?
Well, since this thread has been re-activated, I still have the same complete 'modern' sets posted way back on page one, i.e. Pamela & Claude Frank and Perlman/Ashkenazy - the Franks still remain an excellent performance & bargain! However, I've still not acquired a more 'period instrument' set - any recent comments or recommendations? Thanks - :)
Quote from: Tyson on November 20, 2008, 05:15:52 PM
Kremer/Argerich is close, but not quite intense/aggressive enough for me. Maybe I should check out Mutter?
Not sure, I haven't heard hers, but it may have potential. I frankly haven't heard a more aggressive set than K & A. Maybe a more aggressive "Kreutzer", but not a whole set. Of course, you don't really want to go too totally down that road, sometimes it doesn't serve the music very well. Much of this is lyrical and cantabile because it is meant to be... just sayin' :)
8)
----------------
Listening to: Kodaly Quartet - Haydn Quartet in G for Strings No 42 Op 54 1 2nd mvmt
Quote from: SonicMan on November 20, 2008, 05:18:36 PM
Well, since this thread has been re-activated, I still have the same complete 'modern' sets posted way back on page one, i.e. Pamela & Claude Frank and Perlman/Ashkenazy - the Franks still remain an excellent performance & bargain! However, I've still not acquired a more 'period instrument' set - any recent comments or recommendations? Thanks - :)
Dave,
There isn't a readily available period instrument cycle yet (why the hell not? ??? ). I have Cyril Huvé and Jorja Fleezanis on a Cyprés 3 disk set, with Huvé playing an 1815 Schantz (original, not repro) and Fleezanis playing an 1800 Storioni. I like it a lot, it is very aggressive and angular ( :D ), but the Corkster says it sucks, so it probably does. $30 well-spent at Amazon, IMO. Immerseel & Schröder have a cycle that is well-regarded, but you probably won't ever find it. I have the disk with 5 & 9 on it. "Spring" is great, "Kreutzer" is the worst I've heard (this has been disputed by others, maybe it's just me). I would love to hear Zehetmair, for example, take a shot at this with someone like Brautigam or Komen... :-\
8)
----------------
Listening to:
Kodaly Quartet - Haydn Quartet in G for Strings No 42 Op 54 1 3rd mvmt
To hell with the violin sonatas! What are the recommendations for the cello sonatas? There's actaully some really great options...Menahem Pressler (of the Beaux Arts Trio) has one, Alfred Brendel, with his son, there's the Gulda...what say thee?
Quote from: adamdavid80 on November 20, 2008, 06:22:59 PM
To hell with the violin sonatas! What are the recommendations for the cello sonatas? There's actaully some really great options...Menahem Pressler (of the Beaux Arts Trio) has one, Alfred Brendel, with his son, there's the Gulda...what say thee?
Enough options to have its own thread!
I really like my Casals/Serkin (one of the very few "historic" recordings I love"
and for HIP:
Bylsma/Bilson
Bylsma/Immerseel
Pleeth/Tan
I know I have more, have to look. :)
8)
----------------
Listening to:
Kodaly Quartet - Haydn Quartet in E for Strings No 44 Op 54 3 2nd mvmt
I'm too damn tired to start a new thread...serkin and casals sounds like a can't fail...occhhh, why do there have to be such an embarrassment of riches of choices? my wallet....my wallet...
Quote from: adamdavid80 on November 20, 2008, 06:44:04 PM
I'm too damn tired to start a new thread...serkin and casals sounds like a can't fail...occhhh, why do there have to be such an embarrassment of riches of choices? my wallet....my wallet...
Me too. I have Ma/Ax in the last 3 sonatas too. Elegant playing, not as aggressive and angular as I would like though... *turns the topic back to the OP's intent* :D
----------------
Listening to:
Kodaly Quartet - Haydn Quartet in E for Strings No 44 Op 54 3 3rd mvmt
Hello! Rare visitor here, but since I had been watching this afternoon the DG DVD of Anne Sophie Mutter playing all ten of the sonatas, I might be permitted to put in a word for her outstanding talent and understanding Beethoven's compositions. She is accompanied by her long time associate Lambert Orkis.
A bonus on this DVD is a documentary film 'A Life with Beethoven.
Quote from: Gurn Blanston on November 20, 2008, 04:48:58 PM
That being true, it is hard to imagine being dissatisfied with Kremer/Argerich. My favorite modern instrument performance by far. Curious what you find unsatisfactory about it particularly. :)
Yeah, Kremer/Argerich provide plenty of juice (and are fabulous overall) but if that's still not enough then perhaps the various Kagan performances mentioned earlier in this thread might fit the bill. There's a twofer on EMI of select sonatas w/ Richter (coupled with Mozart) plus a single Live Classics disc w/ Lobanov. Not enough for a complete set but a pretty good sampling. (The EMI twofer is available cheap at BRO).
Quote from: Tyson on November 20, 2008, 01:37:27 PM
I've got a couple of sets of people doing this music, but I just feel like I am missing something, like somehow the music is greater than what the performers are communicating. Below are the sets I already have, additional recommendations are appreciated.
Ashkenazy/Perlman
Argerich/Kremer
Pires/Dumay
One note, I tend to prefer angular/driven type performances over beautiful/poised performances.
maybe my non-HIP favourite Suk/Panenka might be something for you:
(http://images.emusic.com/music/images/album/279/112/061/11206195/300x300.jpg) (http://www.emusic.com/album/Josef-Suk-Beethoven-Complete-Violin-Sonatas-Suk-Panenka-MP3-Download/11206195.html)
Click on picture for samples at emusic.Q
Quote from: Gurn Blanston on November 20, 2008, 06:08:57 PM
Dave,
There isn't a readily available period instrument cycle yet (why the hell not? ??? ).
Gurn - thanks for the comments - I've been looking out for a period instrument cycle, but have yet to see one - will keep my fingers crossed! Dave :D
Quote from: Tyson on November 20, 2008, 01:37:27 PM
I've got a couple of sets of people doing this music, but I just feel like I am missing something, like somehow the music is greater than what the performers are communicating. Below are the sets I already have, additional recommendations are appreciated.
Ashkenazy/Perlman
Argerich/Kremer
Pires/Dumay
One note, I tend to prefer angular/driven type performances over beautiful/poised performances.
I don't know how "angular" the performances are, but I love the Casadesus/Francescatti violin sonatas which are available as reissues from arkivmusic, and can also be picked up for a song from amazon partners.
Aside from that, there are performances of the individual sonatas to choose from that are also terrific -- the Andreas Staier/Daniel Sepec Opp. 23 & 30 sonatas and the Argerich/Perlman Kreutzer come to mind first. The Argerich/Perlman sonatas don't lack for fire; they are sizzling.
(http://www.arkivmusic.com/graphics/covers/non-muze/full/146934.jpg) (http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41r92qfZ9SL._SL500_AA240_.jpg) (http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51cxI4L5d3L._SL500_AA280_.jpg)
Quote from: Bunny on November 21, 2008, 06:58:19 AM
I love the Casadesus/Francescatti violin sonatas which are available as reissues from arkivmusic,
I wasn't aware of that, thank you. :)
Quote from: DavidW on November 21, 2008, 09:07:50 AM
I wasn't aware of that, thank you. :)
My top choice as well for a beautifully inflected, elegant set; Zukerman/Ashkenazy are bland by comparison.
I have those Philips Duos. Grumiaux? I don't have them with me.
If you devoted HIP people are boycotting the newfangled invention of DVD - I dared to mention it earlier >:D - The Anne-Sophie Mutter sonatas are also available on an old-fashioned DG CD! ;D
Quote from: Brünnhilde forever on November 21, 2008, 09:29:53 AM
If you devoted HIP people are boycotting the newfangled invention of DVD - I dared to mention it earlier >:D - The Anne-Sophie Mutter sonatas are also available on an old-fashioned DG CD! ;D
I'm sure they only listen to scratchy 78s.
*runs away*
Playing in this contraption:
I am running with you, protect me! 0:)
Quote from: Tyson on November 20, 2008, 01:37:27 PM
I've got a couple of sets of people doing this music, but I just feel like I am missing something, like somehow the music is greater than what the performers are communicating. Below are the sets I already have, additional recommendations are appreciated.
Ashkenazy/Perlman
Argerich/Kremer
Pires/Dumay
One note, I tend to prefer angular/driven type performances over beautiful/poised performances.
Well I'm not sure if it fits your criteria, nor is it a perfect set, but this is the best set done so far...
(http://img115.imageshack.us/img115/7210/beethovenviolinsonatasqat7.jpg)
Quote from: Rod Corkin on November 22, 2008, 06:35:00 AM
Well I'm not sure if it fits your criteria, nor is it a perfect set, but this is the best set done so far...
(http://img115.imageshack.us/img115/7210/beethovenviolinsonatasqat7.jpg)
Are you sure, Rod Corkin?
Because I own this set and it's a very nice one:
Beethoven: Complete Violin Sonatas
Ryo Terakado, violin
Boyan Vodenitcharov, fortepiano
Denon
4 Cd's
CD 1:
Sonata for Violin and Piano N°5 in F major, Op. 24 ("Spring")
Sonata for Violin and Piano N°1 in D major, Op. 12 N°1
Sonata for Violin and Piano N°3 in E-flat major, Op. 12 N°3
Ryo Terakado, violin (Carlo Ferdinando Landolfi, Milano, 1772)
Boyan Vodenitcharov, fortepiano (Christopher Clarke, Cluny, 1986 after Anton Walter ca. 1795)
Recorded: St. Jacobs Kerk, Hemelveerdegem, Belgium, November 3-6, 1997.
CD 2:
12 Variations on "Se vuol ballare" from "Le nozze di Figaro" by Mozart, WoO40
Sonata for Violin and Piano N°2 in A major, Op. 12 N°2
Sonata for Violin and Piano N°4 in A minor, Op. 23
Rondo in G major WoO41
Six German Dances, WoO42
Ryo Terakado, violin (Carlo Ferdinando Landolfi, Milano, 1772)
Boyan Vodenitcharov, fortepiano (Rosenberger, Vienna, ca. 1802, from the collection of Edwin Beunk)
Recorded: Lovenjoel Kapel, Leuven, Belgium, January 18-22, 1999.
CD 3:
Sonata for Violin and Piano N°6 in A major, Op. 30 N°1
Sonata for Violin and Piano N°7 in C minor, Op. 30 N°2
Sonata for Violin and Piano N°8 in G, Op. 30 N°3
Ryo Terakado, violin (Carlo Ferdinando Landolfi, Milano, 1772)
Boyan Vodenitcharov, fortepiano (Rosenberger, Vienna, ca. 1802, from the collection of Edwin Beunk)
Recorded: Oud-Katholieke Kerk, Delft, The Netherlands, August 10-13, 2000.
CD4:
Sonata for Violin and Piano N°9 in A major, Op. 47 "Kreutzer"
Sonata for Violin and Piano N°10 in G major, Op. 96
Ryo Terakado, violin (Carlo Ferdinando Landolfi, Milano, 1772)
Boyan Vodenitcharov, fortepiano (Lagrassa, Vienna, ca. 1806, from the collection of Edwin Beunk)
Recorded: Festhalle Viersen, Germany, March 22-25, 2005.
Interesting! :) :)
So, much to my surprise, there are no less than FOUR complete HIP cycles:
(http://www.wyastone.co.uk/nrl/main/images/5557.jpg) (http://discplus.ch/login/1547894/shop/upload/40594.jpg)
(http://img115.imageshack.us/img115/7210/beethovenviolinsonatasqat7.jpg)(http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=357.0;attach=13693;image)
Well, thanks to a fellow member I've been able to sample a sonata from the Huvé/Fleezanis set and frankly: it sounded very fine. Some minor intonation problems in the first mvt, but the stylistic approach seems spot on IMO. Very much in the right spirit of the music: swift and expressive.
Very little comment to be found on line, but here's a brief quote from Strings Magazine:
The Beethoven Sonatas are technically and stylistically impeccable. Both players make their meticulous observance of Beethoven's markings sound musically and emotionally natural. The most startling element is the pianoforte sound: dry, crisp, transparent, with a brittle, rattling quality, especially since Beethoven indicates pedal only in the last two sonatas. Fleezanis plays the early sonatas in a semiperiod style, with delayed, sparing vibrato, swells, and abruptly short notes, though her tone is unfailingly beautiful. Some fast tempos are breathlessly hectic, but most are well suited to the mood, character, and expression of the music, allowing for elegant phrasing, poised changes, and transitions within a flexible but rock-steady rhythm. Among the highlights are the two perhaps most elusive sonatas, Nos. 6 and 10, but listeners will find their own favorites.
- Edith Eisler, stringmagazine.com
Will try to sample the new Japanese as well. :)
PS The description of the sound of the 1815 Schantz fortepiano as "brittle" and "rattling" is to be taken with a pinch (heap) of salt.... 8) Maybe to the ears of someone not used to the sound of a fortepiano, but in truth the Schantz has a nice, firm, soft grained, "woody" sound without edginess.. :)
Q
Quote from: Que on November 24, 2008, 12:06:32 AM
Interesting! :) :)
So, much to my surprise, there are no less than FOUR complete HIP cycles:
I have all of those apart from the Denon set, which I haven't seen here in the UK. I don't bother playing the Nimbus nor the Cypres sets at all these days, which should tell you something. Both suffer from serious sound and performance issues. I recommend people go for the DHM set, if they can find it!
... as an example: Sonata for Violin and Piano N°7, 1st Mov. Allegro con brio
Terakado/Vodenitcharov
http://www.goear.com/listen.php?v=35f1c45
Quote from: Que on November 24, 2008, 12:06:32 AM
(http://discplus.ch/login/1547894/shop/upload/40594.jpg)
[snip]
Well, thanks to a fellow member I've been able to sample a sonata from the Huvé/Fleezanis set and frankly: it sounded very fine. Some minor intonation problems in the first mvt, but the stylistic approach seems spot on IMO. Very much in the right spirit of the music: swift and expressive.
Very little comment to be found on line, but here's a brief quote from Strings Magazine:
The Beethoven Sonatas are technically and stylistically impeccable. Both players make their meticulous observance of Beethoven's markings sound musically and emotionally natural. The most startling element is the pianoforte sound: dry, crisp, transparent, with a brittle, rattling quality, especially since Beethoven indicates pedal only in the last two sonatas. Fleezanis plays the early sonatas in a semiperiod style, with delayed, sparing vibrato, swells, and abruptly short notes, though her tone is unfailingly beautiful. Some fast tempos are breathlessly hectic, but most are well suited to the mood, character, and expression of the music, allowing for elegant phrasing, poised changes, and transitions within a flexible but rock-steady rhythm. Among the highlights are the two perhaps most elusive sonatas, Nos. 6 and 10, but listeners will find their own favorites.
- Edith Eisler, stringmagazine.com
Will try to sample the new Japanese as well. :)
PS The description of the sound of the 1815 Schantz fortepiano as "brittle" and "rattling" is to be taken with a pinch (heap) of salt.... 8) Maybe to the ears of someone not used to the sound of a fortepiano, but in truth the Schantz has a nice, firm, soft grained, "woody" sound without edginess.. :)
Q
The quote you have posted doesn't mention that Fleezanis used her own violin -- a late 18th century Storioni which had been rebuilt to modern performance standards which she uses in modern orchestra performance (she is concert master of the Minnesota Symphony) -- for these recordings. She did change her steel strings for gut and used a 19th century English bow as well, but I wonder, are they true "period instrument" performances? Violin volume and tone are affected by such rebuilding. I think the performances are more of a hybrid, which doesn't faze me at all, however others looking to buy a set of strict period instrument recordings may be disappointed if they buy these.
I also tend to agree with Rod about the sound, which is too close for my comfort. However, I'm not an enthusiastic fan of the Schroeder - Immerseel sonatas either (I'm not a great fan of Jaap Schroeder), I keep hoping that Daniel Sepec and Andreas Staier will record the rest of the sonatas.
The Denon recording is not new - it dates from about 1999 and is no longer available from Amazon US. It is available from Amazon Japan or HMV Japan, but I'm not sure I'll be happy with the recording after I see the bill - about 6000 Yen plus s&h. :-\
Quote from: Antoine Marchand on November 24, 2008, 09:43:39 AM
... as an example: Sonata for Violin and Piano N°7, 1st Mov. Allegro con brio
Terakado/Vodenitcharov
http://www.goear.com/listen.php?v=35f1c45
I'll listen to this tonight thanks. What make of fortepiano is used (or copy thereof)? If it is English or French then that is an immediate write-off as far as I am concerned.
You can hear extracts from the Schroeder set (Op.12) at my site...
http://classicalmusicmayhem.freeforums.org/beethoven-3-violin-sonatas-op-12-t909.html
You'll have to log in to see the extracts however.
For anyone who wishes to sample the Shröder/Immerseel Beethoven sonatas, a single cd with the Spring and Kreutzer sonatas is available at Amazon USA at prices under $1.00. That will give a very fair idea of the quality of this set. If this tickles your fancy, then by all means go for the whole set. If you find it wanting, then you are only out about $4 or $5.
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/3144C3T3TDL._SL500_AA216_.jpg)
Quote from: Bunny on November 25, 2008, 06:23:55 AM
For anyone who wishes to sample the Shröder/Immerseel Beethoven sonatas, a single cd with the Spring and Kreutzer sonatas is available at Amazon USA at prices under $1.00. That will give a very fair idea of the quality of this set. If this tickles your fancy, then by all means go for the whole set. If you find it wanting, then you are only out about $4 or $5.
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/3144C3T3TDL._SL500_AA216_.jpg)
I can't see how this would be anything less than amazing, unless one or both of them had the flu or food poisoning on the date of recording.
Depends on what you want/expect to hear. Also, the musicians aren't the only people who make the cd.
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51IMChZKyyL._SS500_.jpg)
A pity these guys didn't go any further. I'm not a great fan of HIP but this is excellent.
Quote from: Bunny on November 25, 2008, 09:15:53 AM
Depends on what you want/expect to hear. Also, the musicians aren't the only people who make the cd.
I expect to hear Prince's "Little Red Corvette", along with a sample of the latest riff from Guns'n'Roses. Knowing Imerseel and the engineers who were working in the studio two doors down to where this was recorded, I'm sure not to be disappointed!
Quote from: Holden on November 25, 2008, 11:24:17 AM
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51IMChZKyyL._SS500_.jpg)
A pity these guys didn't go any further. I'm not a great fan of HIP but this is excellent.
What does "analytically indexed" mean?
And sorry, I can't help it but is your last name McGroin ?
Quote from: PerfectWagnerite on November 25, 2008, 11:53:29 AM
What does "analytically indexed" mean?
And sorry, I can't help it but is your last name McGroin ?
lol
Quote from: PerfectWagnerite on November 25, 2008, 11:53:29 AM
What does "analytically indexed" mean?
I think that the disc is one of those older ones where there are index points within each movement.
Quote from: Bunny on November 24, 2008, 01:17:27 PM
The quote you have posted doesn't mention that Fleezanis used her own violin -- a late 18th century Storioni which had been rebuilt to modern performance standards which she uses in modern orchestra performance (she is concert master of the Minnesota Symphony) -- for these recordings. She did change her steel strings for gut and used a 19th century English bow as well, but I wonder, are they true "period instrument" performances? Violin volume and tone are affected by such rebuilding. I think the performances are more of a hybrid, which doesn't faze me at all, however others looking to buy a set of strict period instrument recordings may be disappointed if they buy these.
I also tend to agree with Rod about the sound, which is too close for my comfort. However, I'm not an enthusiastic fan of the Schroeder - Immerseel sonatas either (I'm not a great fan of Jaap Schroeder), I keep hoping that Daniel Sepec and Andreas Staier will record the rest of the sonatas.
Generally not a fan of Jaap Schröder either, but very much a fan of Immerseel. I should try that single CD selection. :)
Interesting comment on the violin used by Fleezanis! :)
Well, on the subject of "quasi-HIP"! ;D Below a bit of a repost with alterations from the HIP Beethoven thread. About my favourite recording next to the conventional Suk/ Panenka (Supraphon), which I failed to mention before:
Not a fortepiano is used but a
piano, yet not a modern piano but a Viennese instrument built in 1845 by Peter Rosenberger. And it sounds absolutely gorgeous. Leertouwer plays a violin from 1663 by Jacobus Stainer btw (not an instrument from the "right" period either.... 8)).
What's important for me in respect to this choice of instruments: it works. The result is very convincing to me: the balance between the instruments is much better than in recordings with modern instruments, as is the blending of the sound. Rhythmic elements in the music for the keyboard are much better served on this instrument with a "Viennese action" - as I understand it, the hammers do not strike the string frontally, but "brush" them.
All this is topped by wonderful performances by Joannes Leertouwer and Julian Reynolds.
I couldn't find any trace of a review - I just stumbled upon volume 1 as a bargain and was intrigued by the keyboard on the cover, and Leertouwer has a good domestic reputation. These recordings are quite different from conventional recordings: much more "Classical" in conception, but the subtler sonorities also bring out the "Romantic" elements in the later sonatas. Found these hugely rewarding - strongly recommended.
(http://discplus.ch/login/1547894/shop/upload/24801.jpg) (http://discplus.ch/login/1547894/shop/upload/24802.jpg)
Q
Que, they do say that it is a "pianoforte" that is used right on the cover. As Beethoven lived and died just as the fortepiano evolved into the pianoforte, perhaps these are not so far afield as long as there is no sostenuto pedal (or pedaling). As for the violin, it clearly has been modified to more modern performance standards: The chin rest is very visible on the cover photo as is the more raised bridge and narrower neck. The rebuilding may even date to the mid 19th century which would make the pairing of this pianoforte and violin sound very natural. I don't doubt that Leertouwer has used gut strings and a 19th century bow as well.
Quote from: PerfectWagnerite on November 25, 2008, 11:53:29 AM
And sorry, I can't help it but is your last name McGroin ?
"Holden McGroin"? Well, if that's not YOU holding it, whose hand IS on my groin??? :o
Quote from: adamdavid80 on November 25, 2008, 06:20:47 PM
"Holden McGroin"? Well, if that's not YOU holding it, whose hand IS on my groin??? :o
Holden McGroin - hadn't thought of that one - it's a classic!
it's a bit deeper though - Holden Fourth
Quote from: Holden on November 25, 2008, 10:35:56 PM
Holden McGroin - hadn't thought of that one - it's a classic!
it's a bit deeper though - Holden Fourth
Actually if you ever watch the show
Friends, Holden McGroin is a name Joey used for one of his acting auditions so I didn't make it up.
Quote from: Bunny on November 25, 2008, 05:38:38 PM
Que, they do say that it is a "pianoforte" that is used right on the cover. As Beethoven lived and died just as the fortepiano evolved into the pianoforte, perhaps these are not so far afield as long as there is no sostenuto pedal (or pedaling). As for the violin, it clearly has been modified to more modern performance standards: The chin rest is very visible on the cover photo as is the more raised bridge and narrower neck. The rebuilding may even date to the mid 19th century which would make the pairing of this pianoforte and violin sound very natural. I don't doubt that Leertouwer has used gut strings and a 19th century bow as well.
You can pretty much tell that other than the fortepiano the recording is not "HIP" as what you usually associate HIP with. The violin sound is much closer to the modern violin and the playing, phrasing, vibrato wholely point to a Romantic reading than classical. It is an excellent reading though.
Quote from: Rod Corkin on November 25, 2008, 02:00:47 AM
I'll listen to this tonight thanks. What make of fortepiano is used (or copy thereof)? If it is English or French then that is an immediate write-off as far as I am concerned.
You can hear extracts from the Schroeder set (Op.12) at my site...
http://classicalmusicmayhem.freeforums.org/beethoven-3-violin-sonatas-op-12-t909.html
You'll have to log in to see the extracts however.
Hi, Rod, only Viennese fortepianos were used in these recordings ;D as you can read in my previous post: a copy (after Anton Walter, ca. 1795) and two originals (Rosenberger ca. 1802, and Lagrassa ca. 1806). BTW, you have an interesting site, congratulations... Let me Know if you want to listen to something else.
Quote from: Antoine Marchand on November 26, 2008, 05:29:50 PM
Hi, Rod, only Viennese fortepianos were used in these recordings ;D as you can read in my previous post: a copy (after Anton Walter, ca. 1795) and two originals (Rosenberger ca. 1802, and Lagrassa ca. 1806). BTW, you have an interesting site, congratulations... Let me Know if you want to listen to something else.
Thanks Antoine. Actually I think Schroeder/Immerseel do a better job on the whole than Terakado/Vodenitcharov in your track from the Sonata N°7, Allegro con brio. It sounds a bit tame in comparison. My site is a whole lot more interesting if you register and log in, a lot of nice things are invisible to guests.
Rosand on Vox is the real deal and a real steal to boot. The man is an exceptional musician and seriously underrated. Love his Sarasate!
Hi,
I am looking for a complete recording of the Beethoven Violin Sonatas and the Mozart Violin Sonatas.
Any great ones to recommend?
I particularly enjoyed the Gidon Kremer and Martha Argerich recordings of the Beethoven Sonatas.
Thanks.
One of my favorite acquisitions in the past year is the Dumay/Pires set of Beethoven sonatas.
Quote from: DavidRoss on March 30, 2009, 06:51:50 AM
One of my favorite acquisitions in the past year is the Dumay/Pires set of Beethoven sonatas.
How is the Dumay set like?
The performances of the Violin Sonatas in this set are by Pinchas Zukerman/Mark Neikrug
plus you get the complete Symphonies, SQs, Piano Sonatas, trio sonatas etc
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41XZ0SUOILL._SS500_.jpg)
Phillips has Grumeiux on a complete Mozart set, which is hard to beat
Quote from: Zhiliang on March 30, 2009, 06:58:22 AM
How is the Dumay set like?
The only other complete set I have is Frank/Frank, which seems a bit leaden in comparison. The word that comes to mind to characterize Dumay/Pires is "graceful," followed by "warm." (You could throw in "light on its feet" and "nimble," too.) The playing is, of course, effortlessly virtuosic, the interplay between them seems more spontaneous than studied, Dumay's tone is sweet and somewhat dark, his intonation secure, and his vibrato modest. Pires has a relatively light touch and I love her sparkling, bell-like tone, which complements the violin beautifully without overwhelming it--due partly to the recording mix, I imagine, which puts Dumay front and center. The sound is open and natural.
I am quickly becoming a Pires fan, I should check those out at some point, David.
At the other end of the spectrum, we have the boiling hot Kremer/Argerich set. I borrowed this one from the library a few years ago and liked it so much I bought it. Then there's the much more classical, lovely interpretations by Casadesus and Francesacatti (sp) (OOP) :-[ Also the ever beautiful and smaller scaled readings of Grumiaux/Haskil, reissued by Decca and Brilliant.
For Mozart, I only have one but I love it very much. Lupu/Goldberg on Decca.
The recordings which have given me the greatest pleasure are those by Szigeti.
But then he is my favourite violinist of all time, and I can see that he may not be everyone's cup of tea. He's a strong personality with a rather unusual fiddle tone. So try before you buy!
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/513j3t%2BaD4L._SL500_AA280_.jpg)
I had a hankerin' for some Beethoven Violin Sonatas, so I figured I'd try the new set from Isabelle Faust and Alexander Melnikov. The set is a bit hit and miss. Some of the works – especially Op 96, but also some of the Op 12 works – strike me as just a touch too too soft and lacking in energy. But the Op 30 sonatas and especially the Kreutzer sonata are blockbuster performances. The sound is a bit problematic for a modern recording. When listening through my main system, Faust sounds somewhat small and anemic compared to Melnikov, and the piano sounds too "large," encompassing the whole acoustic space at times. When I listen through headphones, though, the problems mostly disappear. (Of course, Walter Klien's Brahms sounds tolerable through the same set-up). Sound isn't bad, per se, it's just not what I had hoped for. Overall, among recent sets, the Cerovsek / Jumppanen cycle on Claves is more my speed, both performance- and sound-wise. Still, this new one does have some superb performances.
Quote from: Todd on December 05, 2009, 07:45:57 AM
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/513j3t%2BaD4L._SL500_AA280_.jpg)
I had a hankerin' for some Beethoven Violin Sonatas, so I figured I'd try the new set from Isabelle Faust and Alexander Melnikov. The set is a bit hit and miss. Some of the works – especially Op 96, but also some of the Op 12 works – strike me as just a touch too too soft and lacking in energy. But the Op 30 sonatas and especially the Kreutzer sonatas are blockbuster performances. The sound is a bit problematic for a modern recording. When listening through my main system, Faust sounds somewhat small and anemic compared to Melnikov, and the piano sounds too "large," encompassing the whole acoustic space at times. When I listen through headphones, though, the problems mostly disappear. (Of course, Walter Klien's Brahms sounds tolerable through the same set-up). Sound isn't bad, per se, it's just not what I had hoped for. Overall, among recent sets, the Cerovsek / Jumppanen cycle on Claves is more my speed, both performance- and sound-wise. Still, this new one does have some superb performances.
Thanks,
Todd, very useful review. Several times I have noticed that soundstage of certain recordings shows amazing differences depending if you are using speakers or headphones. IMO, it is probably a consequence of the recording sessions, where sound engineers and performers are permanently using headphones. :)
Quote from: dirkronk on April 18, 2007, 01:07:56 PM
OK, my curiosity got the best of me. I dug out the EMI set and put on the Beethoven numbers (again, we're talking 4 & 5 only). According to the notes, these performances were given in concert in 1976 in Munich and apparently recorded by EMI engineers (and even if not, they're clear that EMI holds the copyright).
This makes me even more curious to hear the Live Classics version for comparison. donwyn has already said that he no longer has the disc, but does anyone else here have it? And can you tell me what numbers are played and what information is given about dates?
Oh...and yes, I enjoyed the performances. In fact, I think I'll go back for another listen to #4 right now.
Dirk
While reading this old topic I found a few posts with comments and doubts about the Richter-Kagan/Oistrakh versions of the Beethoven Violin Sonatas.
Below is a list with the commercially available recordings (AFAIK) with Sviatoslav Richter at the piano – I hope it may help to clarify the usual Richter labyrinth.
These are recordings I listened throughout the years and I always cherished them as very special. But I was surprised by a previous post with a negative comment about the Live Classics release. I am curious if there are any further opinions of the Forum on the actual performances.
V. SONATA No.1
May 1970 / Moscow - Oistrakh (DOREMI)
V. SONATA No.2
Oct-Nov 1975 / Moscow - Kagan (LIVE CLASSICS)
Aug 1976 / Helsinki - Kagan (INTAGLIO)
V. SONATA No.3
May 1970 / Moscow - Oistrakh (DOREMI / EMI-VHS)
V. SONATA No.4
Oct-Nov 1975 / Moscow - Kagan (LIVE CLASSICS)
Feb-Mar 1976 / Munich - Kagan (EMI)
Aug 1976 / Helsinki - Kagan (INTAGLIO)
V. SONATA No.5
Oct-Nov 1975 / Moscow - Kagan (LIVE CLASSICS)
Feb-Mar 1976 / Munich - Kagan (EMI)
Aug 1976 / Helsinki - Kagan (INTAGLIO)
V. SONATA No.6
Oct 1967 / Moscow (?) - Oistrakh ( BRILLIANT)
Apr 1969 / Moscow - Oistrakh (RUSSIAN MASTERS) *
Mar 1970 / New York - Oistrakh (VAI-DVD)
V. SONATA No.10
May 1970 / Moscow - Oistrakh (DOREMI)
* I don't have this release
(http://img.maniadb.com/images/album_t/281/281029_1_f.jpg) (http://www.classicstoday.com/images/coverpics/3702_coverpic.jpg) (http://www.audaud.com/audaud/DEC01/REISSUES/Oistrakh10.jpg)
Quote(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/513j3t%2BaD4L._SL500_AA280_.jpg)
I had a hankerin' for some Beethoven Violin Sonatas, so I figured I'd try the new set from Isabelle Faust and Alexander Melnikov. The set is a bit hit and miss. Some of the works – especially Op 96, but also some of the Op 12 works – strike me as just a touch too too soft and lacking in energy. But the Op 30 sonatas and especially the Kreutzer sonata are blockbuster performances. The sound is a bit problematic for a modern recording. When listening through my main system, Faust sounds somewhat small and anemic compared to Melnikov, and the piano sounds too "large," encompassing the whole acoustic space at times. When I listen through headphones, though, the problems mostly disappear. (Of course, Walter Klien's Brahms sounds tolerable through the same set-up). Sound isn't bad, per se, it's just not what I had hoped for. Overall, among recent sets, the Cerovsek / Jumppanen cycle on Claves is more my speed, both performance- and sound-wise. Still, this new one does have some superb performances
Really great new set for me also, agree that it is preferable to the highly rated (10/10 by classics today) Faust / Melnikov set.
Sound is best I have heard for any set, and Claves packaging is super deluxe with large digibook format with amazing B/W photos......like an art project, if I could keep only 1 set this is it!
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51wAX42r%2BNL._SL500_AA240_.jpg)
Quote from: DarkAngel on February 03, 2010, 02:52:08 PM
Really great new set for me also, agree that it is preferable to the highly rated (10/10 by classics today) Faust / Melnikov set.
Sound is best I have heard for any set, and Claves packaging is super deluxe with large digibook format with amazing B/W photos......like an art project, if I could keep only 1 set this is it!
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51wAX42r%2BNL._SL500_AA240_.jpg) (http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/513j3t%2BaD4L._SL500_AA280_.jpg)
Well, I was just storing a Beethoven 'new' acquisition in my collection and noticed the
Violin Sonatas that I own - just the same ones as owned back in the spring of 2007 when this thread was started! :o
Way back then I was interested in a 'period instrument' performance - a small number have been mentioned - so, just curious now over 3 yrs later whether any more recent 'complete' sets, esp. as HIP performances, have appeared? Thanks for any comments & recommendations - :D
As title ...
Please recommend a recordings ...
My friend recommend DGG Argrerich & Kremer ... is that right?
I have Grumiaux/Haskil which is excellent but the Decca incarnation I've got has sonic issues - I believe that the Brilliant Classics issue is far better. You might also like to consider:
Claude and Pamela Frank
Perlman/Ashkenazy
If you can make up a complete set by Francescatti and Casadeus you will be well satisfied.
Francescatti/Casadeus > all.
I've always been happy with Casadesus/Francescatti. It's too expensive right now, but maybe it will show up on a Sony/BMG reissue.
I haven't heard Argerich/Kremer. I should probably rectify that.
Quote from: Holden on March 24, 2011, 01:45:07 AM
I have Grumiaux/Haskil which is excellent but the Decca incarnation I've got has sonic issues - I believe that the Brilliant Classics issue is far better.
Agreed on the Grumiaux/Haskil recommendation (their Mozart is even better IMO) and the poor sound on the Decca. I have read that the OOP original Philips set has the far better sound and that the Brilliant has only a bit better sound.
QuoteIf you can make up a complete set by Francescatti and Casadeus you will be well satisfied.
Indeed. I also like Kremer/Argerich.
Kremer/Argerich
Well, I've been culling these for years - the only older set that I own is Perlman-Ashkenazy from the early 1970s.
Of newer sets acquired: Cerovsek-Jumppanen (2006) on 3 discs; and Immerseel-Schroder (1986-87) for hipsters (also 3 discs) - :D
(http://giradman.smugmug.com/Other/Classical-Music/BeethovenVSonsCerovsek1/875213209_ja5wR-O.jpg) (http://giradman.smugmug.com/Other/Classical-Music/BeethovenVSSchroeder/1150529798_bSwvW-O.jpg)
Quote from: SonicMan on March 24, 2011, 06:54:11 AM(http://giradman.smugmug.com/Other/Classical-Music/BeethovenVSonsCerovsek1/875213209_ja5wR-O.jpg)
A most excellent set, and probably my favorite among the various digital versions I've heard. Francescatti / Casadesus, though, remains my personaly favorite. I listened to the whole cycle again a couple months ago and was reminded anew of how good it is.
Few other threads to consider for opinions from members present and past, active or otherwise.
Beethoven Violin Sonatas (http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,357)
Beethoven Violin Sonatas (http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,214)
Best Beethoven Violin Sonatas (http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,5319) [Notice the subtle but smart variation in the title. ::) ]
which Beethoven violin sonatas on DG? (http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,1312)
This one with Gilels and Kogan is good
http://www.amazon.com/Leonid-Kogan-Emil-Gilels-L-Beethoven/dp/B003H7XDW0/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1300986243&sr=8-1
As is this one with Richter and Kagan
[asin]B000025V6A[/asin]
And this recording with Bezuidenhout and Mullova is fun too
[asin]B00394S588[/asin]
The ones with Serkin and Busch are old friends
[asin]B00000604T[/asin]
As is the one with Rachmaninov and Kreisler
[asin]B000001ZFA[/asin]
The Kreutzer presents problems and I'm not sure any recording I've heard has ever made me love the music -- not Moiseiewitsch with Heifitz , not Szigetti with Bartok, not Hubermann with Ignaz Friedman, not Gilels, not Serkin and Busch, not Cortot with Thibaud, not Goldberg with Kraus . Maybe the problem is with Beethoven. Or with me. But anyway you should listen to all of these I think. If I had to pick one it would be Hubermann/Friedman
Quote from: Todd on March 24, 2011, 07:09:34 AM
A most excellent set, and probably my favorite among the various digital versions I've heard. Francescatti / Casadesus, though, remains my personaly favorite. I listened to the whole cycle again a couple months ago and was reminded anew of how good it is.
Hi
Todd - well, I could easily replace my
Perlman/Ashkenazy, so was interested in your comments on the above 'personal favorite' - obviously OOP and expensive on the Amazon MP - have not looked around yet for MP3 downloads or other non-Amazon options - the recording is from the early 60s, I believe from my brief research - I'm assuming that you prefer this set over the others of this vintage mentioned, but how is the sound? Dave
Quote from: SonicMan on March 24, 2011, 02:45:02 PMI'm assuming that you prefer this set over the others of this vintage mentioned, but how is the sound?
Of the recordings I've heard from the era, yes, I prefer this set. (I should note that the slightly older Ferras / Barbizet set is almost as good, if a bit slower, less energetic, and plusher. But then, I'm a sucker for Ferras' fiddling.) Sound for the Francescatti / Casadesus recordings cannot hide their age, but the dynamic range is surprisingly wide.
OK, I'll be repeating myself...though it's been several years since I posted on this particular topic, but...
IMO there are four sets worth getting (assuming you can) before you venture out to other options. Unfortunately, each of these sets has...well, "issues"...and I'll briefly touch on them.
Grumiaux/Haskil. Superb performances, just gorgeous in almost every way, and one of my two top faves ever. I listen and I melt. I have them complete on vinyl and a handful of private transfers (not the entire set) on CD. Drawback: I'm told that both the Decca AND the Brilliant issues of the entire set have sonic problems: the Decca muffles the piano and the Brilliant is rather too, uh, brilliant (bright in the treble department). No such issues seem to exist in my Philips LP set, which provides perfectly acceptable though mono sound. Not the highest hi-fi mono I've heard but still darn good. Makes me wonder what the digital transfer engineers did to muck things up. I really don't mean for this to come across as "Nyaah, nyaah!" but this is one case where it obviously helps if you still have a good turntable in your system.
Francescatti/Casadesus. Same performance level as Grumiaux/Haskil, though with the characteristics of two quite different yet equally appealing players...also my other all-time fave. I have these on vinyl (2 copies...I'm taking no chances) and almost all on CD (single discs from different labels/countries, not an integral set on a single label). Drawback: out of print and too expensive on the used market.
Schneiderhan/Kempff. Classic performances, power, poetry, and wonderful partnership...Schneiderhan still has his touch and Kempff is still comparatively youthful and in his full powers as a pianist. Also, last time I checked, this set was still easily available. Drawback: the sound will annoy some listeners. It's OK (better than that if you're used to typical historical releases), but it's really pre-hi-fi mono and miked so that sometimes the violin overpowers the piano. Not enough to detract from the performance value, in my opinion, but some listeners may have problems.
Kremer/Argerich. The newest and best recorded of my select four, and MAN, do these performances have fire! Frequently edge-of-your-seat stuff. Also easily available. Drawback: Kremer's tone...it's generally better than in some performances of other works, thank heavens (the guy is obviously world class but often just too damn wiry for my tastes), and I'm willing to keep listening for the sake of the interps, at least one or two pieces at a time, but other listeners may be less forgiving. I have Argerich's live performance with Perlman (of the Kreutzer IIRC) and the difference is pretty much night and day; makes me wish THOSE two had recorded an integral set.
If you go back to the earlier threads that Opus106 tracked down, you'll find my old full list of other performances that I keep around. Those threads were several years back, and since then I have added Dumay/Pires (gorgeous but almost too pretty...the music's there and it's s-o-o-o easy to listen but I come away feeling like someone added a layer of sweet cream icing; lots of critics like this set, though, and I do too when I'm in the right mood). Among slightly older sets, Perlman/Ashkenazy probably deserve consideration: both players are excellent, sonics were beautifully realistic in the original analog LPs (assume they've been transferred well to CD), and this was a critic's pick for two or three decades for a reason...and yet I don't seem to return to their set all that often myself. Same can be said for Oistrakh/Oborin...lots of critics (Penguin as one example) just loved these, but I could never warm to them myself.
Wish there were just one easy winner, but...
Good luck finding your own favorite.
Dirk
Quote from: Opus106 on March 24, 2011, 07:10:33 AM
Few other threads to consider for opinions from members present and past, active or otherwise.
Oh my God ... why the post didn't appeared when I'm typed
Beethoven Violin Sonata to search?
Can someone explain ????? THank you for your guidance ....
Quote from: czgirb on March 25, 2011, 04:40:47 PM
Oh my God ... why the post didn't appeared when I'm typed Beethoven Violin Sonata to search?
Can someone explain ????? THank you for your guidance ....
If you are viewing a thread and you use the search box in the top right of the window, then the search only finds applicable posts in the thread you're viewing. It's best to initiate a search from the front page of the forum or to use the Home Help
Search Profile ... link.
Quote from: Opus106 on March 24, 2011, 07:10:33 AM
Few other threads to consider for opinions from members present and past, active or otherwise.
Mille grazie, signore. 8)
Q
Quote from: Que on March 25, 2011, 11:08:23 PM
Millle grazie, signore. 8)
Q
Google says, "Sei il benvenuto". ;D
Does anyone have this Kreutzer sonata?
(http://homepage1.nifty.com/classicalcd/discography/argerich/TOCE-55260.JPG)
You can hear the first movement here:
http://www.youtube.com/v/_700NHZ9yew
Quote from: Opus106 on March 25, 2011, 11:29:14 PM
Google says, "Sei il benvenuto". ;D
Traduttore, Traditore! :D
QuoteReplies to "grazie" are:
Prego
or
Non c'è di che – Don't mention it.
Italians often say
Di che cosa? – For what?
in reply to "grazie". It's like saying, "It was nothing".
:)
Millle grazie, signore. ;D
Quote from: Opus106 on June 19, 2011, 12:40:23 AM
Millle grazie, signore. ;D
De nada, estimado Navneeth. :)
It's amazing how you can surprise yourself. I've always really disliked Kempff's overly lyrical, unenergetic stereo studio recordings, especially the Beethoven, Schubert and Schumann, Brahms and Bach. But recently I've been playing his recording of the Kreutzer with Kulenkampff and it has really gotten under my skin. The only word to describe it is "noble." There's no blood, sweat an tears about this Kreutzer -- it's a refined, elegant, beautifully proportioned, aristocratically . . .you know what I mean.
This noble way with Beethoven really appeals to me. The heroic idealism in middle period Beethoven is a dignified thing. Not a whirl, a scrum, of passion.
Anyway at the end of the day it's outstanding, unique as far as I know. It's not my favourite -- I'd probably go to Hubermann for that. But it is very memorable.
Quote from: Mandryka on July 09, 2011, 12:21:12 PM
The only word to describe it is "noble." There's no blood, sweat an tears about this Kreutzer -- it's a refined, elegant, beautifully proportioned, aristocratically . . .you know what I mean.
This noble way with Beethoven really appeals to me. The heroic idealism in middle period Beethoven is a dignified thing. Not a whirl, a scrum, of passion.
Then you'd better keep away from the Faust/Melnikov recording, which seems to be on the completely opposite tack. Or at the very least, refinement and lack of passion are not the terms I would ever think of applying to that performance--although it works very well for me.
This is the one that's part of their recording of the complete cycle. They also recorded it as a coupling for her recording of the Violin Concerto. I haven't heard that one and don't know how much their approach may have differed there.
Quote from: Mandryka on July 09, 2011, 12:21:12 PM
It's amazing how you can surprise yourself. I've always really disliked Kempff's overly lyrical, unenergetic stereo studio recordings, especially the Beethoven, Schubert and Schumann, Brahms and Bach...
I agree with you, but only regarding his Schubert, too much bland, dreamy and sweet. I have not heard his Bach, though.
Quote from: Mandryka on July 09, 2011, 12:21:12 PM
It's amazing how you can surprise yourself. I've always really disliked Kempff's overly lyrical, unenergetic stereo studio recordings, especially the Beethoven, Schubert and Schumann, Brahms and Bach. But recently I've been playing his recording of the Kreutzer with Kulenkampff and it has really gotten under my skin. The only word to describe it is "noble." There's no blood, sweat an tears about this Kreutzer -- it's a refined, elegant, beautifully proportioned, aristocratically . . .you know what I mean.
This noble way with Beethoven really appeals to me. The heroic idealism in middle period Beethoven is a dignified thing. Not a whirl, a scrum, of passion.
Relistened to this recently and agree completely. Noblesse and elegant, aristocratic playing also characterizes the Schneiderhan / Kempff recording, which has been my favorite since long.
Anyone familiar with this tandem?
(http://store.acousticsounds.com/images/large/APHI_835259__11264__01152009045444-1452.jpg)
Quote from: Bogey on August 28, 2011, 06:15:36 PM
Anyone familiar with this tandem?
(http://store.acousticsounds.com/images/large/APHI_835259__11264__01152009045444-1452.jpg)
No, but I LOVE that cover!
Quote from: Bogey on August 28, 2011, 06:15:36 PM
Anyone familiar with this tandem?
(http://store.acousticsounds.com/images/large/APHI_835259__11264__01152009045444-1452.jpg)
Youtube's got something from those guys: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aRGPQ8i-RQU
Quote from: George on August 28, 2011, 06:16:30 PM
No, but I LOVE that cover!
Brother from another! ;D
They are on Dirk's list but cannot find out much more than that.
Quote from: Bogey on August 28, 2011, 06:18:06 PM
Brother from another! ;D
They are on Dirk's list but cannot find out much more than that.
See the youtube link I posted above. I am playing it now and it sounds lovely.
I own this complete 4-CD set:
[asin]B00005ND42[/asin]
Not really my favorite Oistrakh/Oborin, probably at some extent because, IIRC, the sound quality was not very attractive. Although I am not totally sure if these are the same recordings because I vaguely recall that they recorded this cycle two times.
Quote from: toñito on August 28, 2011, 06:25:47 PM
I own this complete 4-CD set:
[asin]B00005ND42[/asin]
Not really my favorite Oistrakh/Oborin, probably at some extent because, IIRC, the sound quality was not very attractive. Although I am not totally sure that these are the same recordings because I vaguely recall that them recorded this cycle two times.
Thanks....the recording I am looking at is newly pressed vinyl from Speakers Corner (Philips) who usually get good reviews for their pressings.
You are correct, George. Gorgeous!
Any opinion on Stern in the Sony Masters box?
Quote from: The new erato on August 29, 2011, 05:29:27 AM
Any opinion on Stern in the Sony Masters box?
Yes, I have one.
"I need to get in gear and actually listen to it."
I have it, but listening to it is part of my to do list. So far I've only played the concertos and one CD of the piano trios.
I'll try to make a point of playing the sonatas at some point in the next few days, and will emit appropriate noises afterwards.
I should mention that of the three other performances I have, the Faust/Melnikov has impressed me most (against Capucon/Braley and Perlman/Ashkenazy)
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51uLJAFpsxL._SL500_AA300__PJautoripBadge,BottomRight,4,-40_OU11__.jpg)
?
(No.)
^^He's a fine violinist, for sure--haven't heard the set yet, but it seems promising. I'm curious about this one: it was recorded live!
(http://onebitaudio.com/wp-content/uploads/complete_sonatas_lyrinx.jpg)
Quote from: Todd on February 01, 2013, 05:20:16 PM
(No.)
Well, the answer has to be more like N/A or something like that, since the question is meaningless, but I'm eager to read to whatever other things you may have to say about the recordings. ;)
Quote from: Todd on February 01, 2013, 05:20:16 PM
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51uLJAFpsxL._SL500_AA300__PJautoripBadge,BottomRight,4,-40_OU11__.jpg)
I guess the pianist is worth only about 1/6 as much as the fiddler.
Quote from: Opus106 on February 02, 2013, 09:36:03 AMbut I'm eager to read to whatever other things you may have to say about the recordings.
Okay, a few words. Kavakos is a world class fiddler, there's no doubt, and the set is filled with numerous examples of high grade artistry and beautiful playing by him. There's never an ugly moment. On the flip side, he and Pace sometimes seem too at ease, never really ratcheting up tension ideally.
Sound is a bit problematic. The best analogy I can think of is from photography. The depth of field needed required an F11, but instead the engineers used an F8. That means Kavakos is in sharp focus and Pace, while clear and clearly very talented, is deemphasized. This is more a problem through speakers than headphones, but it irks me a bit. It's roughly on par with Faust/Melnikov overall, and that set has its own balance issues, too. It's no match for some of the old warhorses, like Francescatti/Casadesus or Ferras/Barbizet. (I worked my way through the latter about two weeks before getting the Kavakos set, to the newer set's detriment.)
Much appreciated, Todd. :)
Sound issues aside, I very much liked what I heard from the Kavakos/Pace set. Their Kreutzer is highly energetic and Kavakos's tone is gorgeous, very clear and direct.
How are the Heifetz and Bay for these (8 and 10)?
Quote from: Bogey on March 03, 2013, 03:47:28 PMHow are the Heifetz and Bay for these (8 and 10)?
Very energetic and perhaps a bit showy on Heifetz's part here and there, like the entire set, but it's really very good.
Quote from: Todd on March 03, 2013, 06:47:18 PM
Very energetic and perhaps a bit showy on Heifetz's part here and there, like the entire set, but it's really very good.
What I needed to know. Thanks!
Quote from: Bogey on March 03, 2013, 03:47:28 PM
How are the Heifetz and Bay for these (8 and 10)?
They are actually rather good. There is tremendous energy. One problem I find with Heifetz's set though is the recording balance favours the violinist too much.
That and the fact that Bay, though a perfectly good pianist, does tend to assume the role of accompanist rather than (as LvB intended) an equal partnership. But Heifetz is incomparable.but Bay does tend to be eclipsed.
One recording that is worth seeking out is Heifetz in the Kreutzer with Mosiewitsch - far more of a partnership. A terrific performance.
Another great Kreutzer is Perlman with Argerich - live!
I've been following the Shayaka Shoji/Gianluca Cascioli interpretations of Beethoven sonatas on facebook and youtube and through private concert records. But now I see that two of their three CDs are streamng on Qobuz. I have no idea if they've been released any other way out of Japan yet. For me, given that I really can't stand romantic energetic fiery promethean Beehoven, especially in middle period music, this is the violin sonata cycle I've been waiting for, a modern replacement for Schneiderman/Kempff.
Anyway, as far as I'm concerned, finding these recordings justifies playing for qobuz's streaming services this month. And it's only early May.
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41GglMansFL._SL500_AA300_.jpg)
I'm looking for a set of Beethoven's Violin Sonatas. I have the three single discs by Alina Ibragimova and Cédric Tiberghien, and although they feature a nice, clean modern sound, and I like them very much, I'm not sure this is my Goldilocks version.
[asin]B003GWDSWG[/asin]
I've also ordered the complete set by Aaron Berofsky and Phillip Bush. I heard a bit of it online, and I liked it. At least, it sounded nice. I'm not at all familiar with anything but the Spring and Kreuzer sonatas, so I won't know if this will be my favorite version until it arrives and I can hear the entire set. The price is right on these, too: $19.79.
[asin]B005346JBM[/asin]
This quest started when I listened to what I could of the Schneiderhan/Seemann versions on DG's website. But you can't find this OOP set for a reasonable price. There are three people selling it for $180 on AM, but I'm not interested at that price.
[asin]B0009A4200[/asin]
So, what are your favorites, your great recordings, of the Beethoven Violin Sonatas?
I've been working my way through this set of the sonatas, with violinist Gary Levinson (senior associate concertmaster of the Dallas Symphony Orchestra) and his wife, Baya Kakubery on piano. Can't weigh in on comparisons with other versions, since I haven't heard that many, but this one is quite enjoyable.
[asin]B0088EDMVO[/asin]
--Bruce
The following is a set of the Violin Sonatas played by Kristof Barati and Klara Wurtz. According to a Fanfare Magazine reviewer, it blows away ALL the competition. Has anyone heard it?
[asin]B008L62WWE[/asin]
Quote from: Sammy on June 22, 2013, 12:00:48 PM
The following is a set of the Violin Sonatas played by Kristof Barati and Klara Wurtz. According to a Fanfare Magazine reviewer, it blows away ALL the competition. Has anyone heard it?
Not yet. I'm willing. But given how many fine recordings of this repertoire are available, I must take the claim that this "blows away" all others with a great many grains of salt.
Quote from: DavidRoss on June 22, 2013, 12:33:09 PM
Not yet. I'm willing. But given how many fine recordings of this repertoire are available, I must take the claim that this "blows away" all others with a great many grains of salt.
Agreed. At about $20, I have little to lose by getting the set.
Quote from: Sammy on June 22, 2013, 04:38:02 PM
Agreed. At about $20, I have little to lose by getting the set.
I'm tempted, too. It's something like $15 via movie-mars.
I continue enjoying the Violin Sonatas by Cedric Tiberghien and Alina Ibragimova.
I was unfamiliar with this music when I ran into a version of it on DG's website I liked instantly. It was OOP. Since I couldn't find it for <$180, I chose this one -- I've always liked saying "Tiberghien" -- and I'm liking it a lot. I'm still imprinting on the music, I suppose, but the sound quality is wonderful, at least over headphones, my preferred listening medium this year.
Listening to this sent me on a quest for more chamber music, which included my falling in love with the Emersons' Shostakovich String Quartets. I ended up taking a book out of the library on the subject,
Chamber Music by James Keller, in which one of the first things I learned is that these Violin Sonatas of Beethoven's don't count as chamber music. Rather, they're "soloist plus accompanist."
I like the VS anyway, and have amended my quest parameters to include Soloist Plus Accompanist Music (I wonder if it has a book of its own).
Quote from: Sammy on June 22, 2013, 12:00:48 PM
The following is a set of the Violin Sonatas played by Kristof Barati and Klara Wurtz. According to a Fanfare Magazine reviewer, it blows away ALL the competition. Has anyone heard it?
Hi
Don - I read the review on that set & like Wurtz in other performances, but just purchased the package below which also received great reviews (and at a decent price) - increases my number to three for these works - might be enough for me - ;) Dave
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/61oy6zIi3NL._SL1000_.jpg)
Quote from: Annie on August 25, 2013, 10:32:23 AM
Sets: Kremer/Argerich & Perlman/Ashkenazy. No need for adventure.
Popular 5 & 9: Faust/Melnikov & Grumiaux/Haskil
You won't find me naysaying Kremer/Argerich, but Perlman/Ashkenazy for a long time persuaded me that these sonatas were boring works not necessary to bother with. For myself, I'd put Faust/Melnikov into one of the top slots; their Kreutzer is particularly good but the rest of the set should not be misunderestimated. For a third top pick I'd put Schroeder/Immerseel. Immerseel/Seiler is a definite disappointment. Stern/Istomin is another favorite, albeit not one I'd put in the top tier. Haven't heard Grumiaux/Haskil: I'm one of those people for whom the inferior sonics (compared to current day) of older recordings has too much impact on the listening experience.
Quote from: Sammy on June 22, 2013, 12:00:48 PM
The following is a set of the Violin Sonatas played by Kristof Barati and Klara Wurtz. According to a Fanfare Magazine reviewer, it blows away ALL the competition. Has anyone heard it?
[asin]B008L62WWE[/asin]
Listening to the Spring on Spotify. The whole set is there. The first movement is not taken at the usual leisurely pace so the rest will be interesting.
Quote from: Sammy on June 22, 2013, 12:00:48 PM
The following is a set of the Violin Sonatas played by Kristof Barati and Klara Wurtz. According to a Fanfare Magazine reviewer, it blows away ALL the competition.
Only a matter of time before
Fanfare lapses into
literally and
ginormous . . . .
Quote from: Jeffrey Smith on August 25, 2013, 06:52:39 PM
Perlman/Ashkenazy for a long time persuaded me that these sonatas were boring works not necessary to bother with.
??? I think their Kreutzer is the most exciting and flashy reading of the work I've heard. The word 'boring' is the furthest thing from my mind when it comes to that performance! I have to admit that I'm not all that familiar with the rest of the set, though.
Quote from: dirkronk on March 25, 2011, 05:52:24 AM
OK, I'll be repeating myself...though it's been several years since I posted on this particular topic, but...
IMO there are four sets worth getting (assuming you can) before you venture out to other options. Unfortunately, each of these sets has...well, "issues"...and I'll briefly touch on them.
Grumiaux/Haskil. Superb performances, just gorgeous in almost every way, and one of my two top faves ever. I listen and I melt. I have them complete on vinyl and a handful of private transfers (not the entire set) on CD. Drawback: I'm told that both the Decca AND the Brilliant issues of the entire set have sonic problems: the Decca muffles the piano and the Brilliant is rather too, uh, brilliant (bright in the treble department). No such issues seem to exist in my Philips LP set, which provides perfectly acceptable though mono sound. Not the highest hi-fi mono I've heard but still darn good. Makes me wonder what the digital transfer engineers did to muck things up. I really don't mean for this to come across as "Nyaah, nyaah!" but this is one case where it obviously helps if you still have a good turntable in your system.
Francescatti/Casadesus. Same performance level as Grumiaux/Haskil, though with the characteristics of two quite different yet equally appealing players...also my other all-time fave. I have these on vinyl (2 copies...I'm taking no chances) and almost all on CD (single discs from different labels/countries, not an integral set on a single label). Drawback: out of print and too expensive on the used market.
Schneiderhan/Kempff. Classic performances, power, poetry, and wonderful partnership...Schneiderhan still has his touch and Kempff is still comparatively youthful and in his full powers as a pianist. Also, last time I checked, this set was still easily available. Drawback: the sound will annoy some listeners. It's OK (better than that if you're used to typical historical releases), but it's really pre-hi-fi mono and miked so that sometimes the violin overpowers the piano. Not enough to detract from the performance value, in my opinion, but some listeners may have problems.
Kremer/Argerich. The newest and best recorded of my select four, and MAN, do these performances have fire! Frequently edge-of-your-seat stuff. Also easily available. Drawback: Kremer's tone...it's generally better than in some performances of other works, thank heavens (the guy is obviously world class but often just too damn wiry for my tastes), and I'm willing to keep listening for the sake of the interps, at least one or two pieces at a time, but other listeners may be less forgiving. I have Argerich's live performance with Perlman (of the Kreutzer IIRC) and the difference is pretty much night and day; makes me wish THOSE two had recorded an integral set.
If you go back to the earlier threads that Opus106 tracked down, you'll find my old full list of other performances that I keep around. Those threads were several years back, and since then I have added Dumay/Pires (gorgeous but almost too pretty...the music's there and it's s-o-o-o easy to listen but I come away feeling like someone added a layer of sweet cream icing; lots of critics like this set, though, and I do too when I'm in the right mood). Among slightly older sets, Perlman/Ashkenazy probably deserve consideration: both players are excellent, sonics were beautifully realistic in the original analog LPs (assume they've been transferred well to CD), and this was a critic's pick for two or three decades for a reason...and yet I don't seem to return to their set all that often myself. Same can be said for Oistrakh/Oborin...lots of critics (Penguin as one example) just loved these, but I could never warm to them myself.
Wish there were just one easy winner, but...
Good luck finding your own favorite.
Dirk
While this is an old post, I wanted to say thanks for it, Dirk!
And just in case anyone missed it, this is now back in print, and very cheaply too....
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/61JrSeGLYqL._SX425_.jpg)
Quote from: j winter on November 27, 2019, 08:07:01 AM
And just in case anyone missed it, this is now back in print, and very cheaply too....
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/61JrSeGLYqL._SX425_.jpg)
A good set but I find Francescatti's vibrato excessive.
Listening to the Kreutzer - very good! My reference set is Grumiaux/Haskil but as I have not heard Francescatti/Casadesus before it will be interesting to see how they compare.
Quote from: George on November 27, 2019, 05:37:27 AM
While this is an old post, I wanted to say thanks for it, Dirk!
I used to correspond via this forum and via e-mail with Dirk and one day he just up and vanished. Anyone know what happened?
My take on him was if he liked a performance then I was almost sure to as well. We swapped a number of recordings in the days when we used to commit everything to CD-R. A number of those CDs contain my favourite recordings of a number of works. I'll always be eternally grateful for his contribution to my classical music experience
How did the CBS recordings end up with Hänssler? Or are these live/broadcast recordings, i.e. different from the studio recordings?
Quote from: Holden on November 28, 2019, 12:51:45 AM
I used to correspond via this forum and via e-mail with Dirk and one day he just up and vanished. Anyone know what happened?
My take on him was if he liked a performance then I was almost sure to as well. We swapped a number of recordings in the days when we used to commit everything to CD-R. A number of those CDs contain my favourite recordings of a number of works. I'll always be eternally grateful for his contribution to my classical music experience
Wow, I hadn't realized he left. Sorry to hear that.
Quote from: Jo498 on November 28, 2019, 01:32:27 AM
How did the CBS recordings end up with Hänssler? Or are these live/broadcast recordings, i.e. different from the studio recordings?
Don't know, but they have other sets as well, for instance a set of selected Szell/Cleveland recordings...
(https://d27t0qkxhe4r68.cloudfront.net/t_900/profilmedienph19018.jpg?1565008588)
Quote from: j winter on November 27, 2019, 08:07:01 AM
And just in case anyone missed it, this is now back in print, and very cheaply too....
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/61JrSeGLYqL._SX425_.jpg)
Now that I can get Qobuz in Australia I've gone back to recordings that didn't really sound as good as they should via Spotify. The Francescatti/Casadesus above is in absolutely great sound and this has displaced Grumiaux/Haskil as my preferred set and part of this is because of sonics. What I like is the consistency and this is missing in so many other recommended sets. The Faust/Melnikov has some great moments but there also some pedestrian performances as well.
I really like the Grumiaux/Haskil but can't find the sonically superior Philips set. If it was available somewhere I would probably buy it.
Quote from: Holden on May 07, 2021, 12:27:51 AM
I really like the Grumiaux/Haskil but can't find the sonically superior Philips set. If it was available somewhere I would probably buy it.
Has a sonically superior CD set been released on Philips?
I owned the original Philips LP set and always wondered about the sonics with a dull piano sound in the background, while the sound of the violin was in the foreground and acceptable after all.
Quote from: (: premont :) on May 07, 2021, 03:50:51 AM
Has a sonically superior CD set been released on Philips?
I owned the original Philips LP set and always wondered about the sonics with a dull piano sound in the background, while the sound of the violin was in the foreground and acceptable after all.
Hi premont,
I have heard the Philips CD issue of this set, along with a later remaster on Decca. On both, the sound is as you describe, with a distant piano in the background. The Philips is a brighter mastering, resulting in a better piano image and more piano tone, though a bit shrill at times. The Decca attempts to clean the top end, resulting in a duller overall sound, with the piano sounding even further away.
I really wish the major labels had never remastered in this way, removing tape hiss (along with piano tone) as if it were a mortal sin. EMI is probably the biggest offender in this.
Quote from: George on May 07, 2021, 05:34:30 AM
Hi premont,
I have heard the Philips CD issue of this set, along with a later remaster on Decca. On both, the sound is as you describe, with a distant piano in the background. The Philips is a brighter mastering, resulting in a better piano image and more piano tone, though a bit shrill at times. The Decca attempts to clean the top end, resulting in a duller overall sound, with the piano sounding even further away.
I really wish the major labels had never remastered in this way, removing tape hiss (along with piano tone) as if it were a mortal sin. EMI is probably the biggest offender in this.
Hi George
Thanks for the clarification. Sounds as if the Philips CD release is much similar to the LPs.
A label which very often succeds in minimizing tape hiss and other noises to an acceptable level from old LPs without harming (and often improving) the original sound picture is Forgotten Records. They might be able to do a better release of these Philips LPs.
Quote from: (: premont :) on May 07, 2021, 09:10:34 AM
Hi George
Thanks for the clarification. Sounds as if the Philips CD release is much similar to the LPs.
A label which very often succeds in minimizing tape hiss and other noises to an acceptable level from old LPs without harming (and often improving) the original sound picture is Forgotten Records. They might be able to do a better release of these Philips LPs.
There is noise reduction on the original Philips 3 CD set which I've verified by listening and comparing level matched. Just personal preference for wanting realism in the midrange/treble over more palatable dulling and boxing in of the sound.
I have to imagine your LPs sound better as these Philips LPs usually sound pretty good given the limitations of the recording. For me, being digital only unless I can find LPs locally (too many unscrupulous sellers online) the best sound is on the recent Grumiaux Complete Philips box.
Photo of the original Philips 3 CD set:
(https://i.imgur.com/4ThtjZx.jpg)
That No-Noise symbol is the kiss of death in my book... ::)
They should call their little gimmick No-Music! :P
Quote from: Que on May 13, 2021, 11:00:22 AM
That No-Noise symbol is the kiss of death in my book... ::)
They should call their little gimmick No-Music! :P
No kidding! :(
(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/71VpR7SWteL._SL500_.jpg)
Now enjoying a second spin of this set. Performances are superb, sound is impeccable. By far, my favorite set of the Beethoven violin sonatas.
The packaging is probably the worst thing about Cerovsek/Jumppanen and this is worse in the original issue of Faust/Melnikov...
Quote from: j winter on November 27, 2019, 08:07:01 AM
And just in case anyone missed it, this is now back in print, and very cheaply too....
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/61JrSeGLYqL._SX425_.jpg)
Does the Profil sound better than the last Sony transfers?
(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/81ag4LTYRfL._SX522_.jpg)
(https://d1iiivw74516uk.cloudfront.net/eyJidWNrZXQiOiJwcmVzdG8tY292ZXItaW1hZ2VzIiwia2V5IjoiODcwMDc2NC4xLmpwZyIsImVkaXRzIjp7InJlc2l6ZSI6eyJ3aWR0aCI6OTAwfSwianBlZyI6eyJxdWFsaXR5Ijo2NX0sInRvRm9ybWF0IjoianBlZyJ9LCJ0aW1lc3RhbXAiOjE1NzMzNDk1NDZ9)
This is a great unsung set.
Quote from: George on November 06, 2021, 11:50:12 AM
(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/71VpR7SWteL._SL500_.jpg)
Now enjoying a second spin of this set. Performances are superb, sound is impeccable. By far, my favorite set of the Beethoven violin sonatas.
Quote from: Jo498 on November 06, 2021, 12:16:19 PM
The packaging is probably the worst thing about Cerovsek/Jumppanen and this is worse in the original issue of Faust/Melnikov...
Of the 3 sets of these works in my collection (and several culled out in the past), I'd have to agree w/
George - but the packaging is terrible, I think in part related to the size (in length) of the booklet - would nicely have fit into a double jewel box which would have allowed for a lengthy booklet. Dave :)
Quote from: George on November 06, 2021, 11:50:12 AM
(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/71VpR7SWteL._SL500_.jpg)
Now enjoying a second spin of this set. Performances are superb, sound is impeccable. By far, my favorite set of the Beethoven violin sonatas.
Best digital era cycle.
I'll put in a word for Barati/Wurtz on Brilliant Classics:
(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/51EjLcwMUmL.jpg)
The balance between violin and piano is "natural", so the violin sounds a bit subdued after listening to Francescatti. But I think this is closer to the intended balance.
Any fans here of Ilina Ibragimova and Cedric Tiberghian? I have their first two releases and enjoy them.
PD
(http://cps-static.rovicorp.com/3/JPG_500/MI0003/096/MI0003096165.jpg?partner=allrovi.com)
Quote from: Pohjolas Daughter on November 07, 2021, 08:16:29 AM
Any fans here of Ilina Ibragimova and Cedric Tiberghian? I have their first two releases and enjoy them.
PD
(http://cps-static.rovicorp.com/3/JPG_500/MI0003/096/MI0003096165.jpg?partner=allrovi.com) (https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/51sebFKQ2dL.jpg)
Hey
PD - now that does piqued my interest - just purchased 5 double-disc volumes of their Mozart works from BRO (https://www.broinc.com/media?s=+Ibragimova) for $9 each - looking at the link their Beethoven collaboration CDs are not there at the moment. These are live recordings from Wigmore Hall, so hope the audience is completely silent? Spotify has all 3 discs - just made a playlist and will listen soon. Dave :)
Quote from: SonicMan46 on November 07, 2021, 09:00:07 AM
Hey PD - now that does piqued my interest - just purchased 5 double-disc volumes of their Mozart works from BRO (https://www.broinc.com/media?s=+Ibragimova) for $9 each - looking at the link their Beethoven collaboration CDs are not there at the moment. These are live recordings from Wigmore Hall, so hope the audience is completely silent? Spotify has all 3 discs - just made a playlist and will listen soon. Dave :)
Dave, looking forward to hearing your thoughts. :) By the way, may I ask, how do you imbed(?) a link in a word? Like you did with BRO? I've tried to figure it out and to google it but no luck!
PD
Quote from: Pohjolas Daughter on November 07, 2021, 09:16:37 AM
Dave, looking forward to hearing your thoughts. :) By the way, may I ask, how do you imbed(?) a link in a word? Like you did with BRO? I've tried to figure it out and to google it but no luck!
PD
Easy once you've done it a few times - use the hyperlink icon (see pic below) - you can either type the 'text' desired, highlight it, and then click the icon; or you can click the icon first, then between the brackets insert your 'text reference, e.g. BRO - NOW, within the left URL bracket (had to type bracket), simply put an = sign, i.e. url= and type in the correct URL (careful about spaces) - Dave :)
(bracket)url=copy the link here]desired text here(/bracket)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Other/Miscellaneous/i-4ZPVDFW/0/3aa4c4ff/O/Screen%20Shot%202021-11-07%20at%201.39.11%20PM.png)
Quote from: SonicMan46 on November 07, 2021, 09:54:03 AM
Easy once you've done it a few times - use the hyperlink icon (see pic below) - you can either type the 'text' desired, highlight it, and then click the icon; or you can click the icon first, then between the brackets insert your 'text reference, e.g. BRO - NOW, within the left URL bracket (had to type bracket), simply put an = sign, i.e. url= and type in the correct URL (careful about spaces) - Dave :)
(bracket)url=copy the link here]desired text here(/bracket)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Other/Miscellaneous/i-4ZPVDFW/0/3aa4c4ff/O/Screen%20Shot%202021-11-07%20at%201.39.11%20PM.png)
Experiment:
BRO (http://broinc.com) Hey! I think that I did it, though I had clicked on the change color to red? Perhaps that's the default color (blue)? And thanks! :)
PD
Quote from: Pohjolas Daughter on November 07, 2021, 10:33:36 AM
Experiment:
BRO (http://broinc.com) Hey! I think that I did it, though I had clicked on the change color to red? Perhaps that's the default color (blue)? And thanks! :)
PD
Congrats! 8) I never have added more inside the brackets except the URL - I rearranged your 'red color' by putting the color tags between BRO - now the link is in red, as above. Dave :)
Quote from: SonicMan46 on November 07, 2021, 10:46:12 AM
Congrats! 8) I never have added more inside the brackets except the URL - I rearranged your 'red color' by putting the color tags between BRO - now the link is in red, as above. Dave :)
Thanks, I just tried it above (after clicking on modify) to try it myself. Appreciate your help! 8) :)
PD
Quote from: Daverz on November 06, 2021, 12:28:40 PM
Does the Profil sound better than the last Sony transfers?
(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/81ag4LTYRfL._SX522_.jpg)
I would be surprised if they did. Historical Hanssler/Profil reissues often used noise reduction and they wouldn't have access to Sony's tapes. The box set you pictured sounds very good [edit]
A bit annoying that those were left off the 60+ disc Sony Casadesus box, one of my favorite pianist boxes in the last few years.
FWIW there was a 3 CD box of all the sonatas with Francescatti/Casadesus from Sony France 2001 and they are all in stereo. As 2-8 were all recorded 1961 it should be strange to have two of them not in stereo? Or is this an alternative recording of sonatas 5+6?
Quote from: Jo498 on November 08, 2021, 11:27:44 PM
FWIW there was a 3 CD box of all the sonatas with Francescatti/Casadesus from Sony France 2001 and they are all in stereo. As 2-8 were all recorded 1961 it should be strange to have two of them not in stereo? Or is this an alternative recording of sonatas 5+6?
Let me double check this, there was some discussion on this on another classical board and I thought I expanded on what the differences were.
I only have this partially ripped one of my work PCs and the sound quality is exceptional (tons of tape hiss, great vibrancy in both instruments) but this is without doing a direct comparison.
I only have that Sony France 3 disc set but I could check if it is stereo. Per the recording dates it would be very strange to have differences as even the three sonatas recorded earlier (1, 9, 10 in 1958) are supposedly stereo.
But there are certainly some alternate recordings as there is a newer Beethoven set with no less than 7 discs and doublings:
[asin]B082BX12PQ[/asin]
Quote from: Pohjolas Daughter on November 07, 2021, 08:16:29 AM
Any fans here of Ilina Ibragimova and Cedric Tiberghian? I have their first two releases and enjoy them.
PD
(http://cps-static.rovicorp.com/3/JPG_500/MI0003/096/MI0003096165.jpg?partner=allrovi.com)
As stated before, I own the 10 discs of
Ibragimova & Tiberghian performing Mozart's Violin Sonatas, which are excellent, IMO (and in the attached reviews) - so, put together a Spotify playlist of their 3 Beethoven discs and their playing is equally enjoyable, however, their is applause after each sonata is completed which dissuades me from a purchase (just me disliking audience participation); but reviews are attached for those interested.
P.S. a weird occurrence on Spotify - when I play V. 2 by itself, all is fine (first pic below), but when added to the other 2 volumes in a playlist - all songs on the second volume are duets w/ a pianist and female singer (contralto?) (second pic - note titles and time differences) - will leave them an email!
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Other/Classical-Music/i-DBWLLNn/0/435769ec/O/V2_SingleAlbum.png)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Other/Classical-Music/i-vTsBtD2/0/fa1d44a6/O/V2_Playlist.png)
Quote from: SonicMan46 on November 09, 2021, 07:44:34 AM
As stated before, I own the 10 discs of Ibragimova & Tiberghian performing Mozart's Violin Sonatas, which are excellent, IMO (and in the attached reviews) - so, put together a Spotify playlist of their 3 Beethoven discs and their playing is equally enjoyable, however, their is applause after each sonata is completed which dissuades me from a purchase (just me disliking audience participation); but reviews are attached for those interested.
Sorry that they didn't work for you. Most of the time, applause isn't an issue for me (at least in terms of recordings though as I mentioned earlier, I wish folks wouldn't feel the need to jump in so quickly with it at the end of a work). Do you ever listen to opera broadcasts or live recordings of them? That happens often after a special aria/duet/etc.
I'll have to keep an eye out for their Mozart. :)
PD
Quote from: Pohjolas Daughter on November 09, 2021, 08:00:12 AM
Sorry that they didn't work for you. Most of the time, applause isn't an issue for me (at least in terms of recordings though as I mentioned earlier, I wish folks wouldn't feel the need to jump in so quickly with it at the end of a work). Do you ever listen to opera broadcasts or live recordings of them? That happens often after a special aria/duet/etc.
I'll have to keep an eye out for their Mozart. :)
PD
Hi
PD - wife and I are not opera fans - did own one disc of Mozart Overtures which has disappeared? 8) I was brought up in Toledo, Ohio and my father was a BIG Opera/Mario Lanza fan; the Toledo Art Museum had an opera season (national touring company(ies)), and he dragged me to dozens, so my dislike goes back decades - although I do occasionally watch Lanza movies - ;D
BTW, the current 'best deal' on the Mozart set is at BRO (https://www.broinc.com/media?s=Ibragimova+) - each of the 5 double-discs in single jewel boxes going for $9 - i.e. w/ shipping only $5/disc. If not already done, take a look at the link. Dave :)
Quote from: SonicMan46 on November 09, 2021, 08:24:11 AM
Hi PD - wife and I are not opera fans - did own one disc of Mozart Overtures which has disappeared? 8) I was brought up in Toledo, Ohio and my father was a BIG Opera/Mario Lanza fan; the Toledo Art Museum had an opera season (national touring company(ies)), and he dragged me to dozens, so my dislike goes back decades - although I do occasionally watch Lanza movies - ;D
BTW, the current 'best deal' on the Mozart set is at BRO (https://www.broinc.com/media?s=Ibragimova+) - each of the 5 double-discs in single jewel boxes going for $9 - i.e. w/ shipping only $5/disc. If not already done, take a look at the link. Dave :)
Thanks for the tip!
Guess what LP I have (courtesy of parents)? Used to listen to it growing up. This will give you a hint (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e_yKEKy22jo). :)
PD
Quote from: Pohjolas Daughter on November 09, 2021, 08:32:35 AM
Thanks for the tip!
Guess what LP I have (courtesy of parents)? Used to listen to it growing up. This will give you a hint (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e_yKEKy22jo). :)
PD
LOL - ;D Lanza did have a great voice, and could easily do opera arias or popular songs (I usually dislike opera singers trying to sing American standards, but just me) - below are the Lanza movies - believe I've seen most of them and have a handful burned to DVD-R, which I'll pull out to watch on occasion - in fact, I've been getting rid of some of my DVDs by buying their Amazon Prime Video HD equivalents (if the price is cheap) - going to check right now to see if any Mario in HD might be there? Dave :)
ADDENDUM: when Lanza died suddenly at only 38 years in 1959, but father was devastated - we had moved over the Ohio state line to lower Michigan (lived next to a golf course that was in each state) - he played his Mario LPs every night for a week! ???
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Other/Classical-Music/i-TfXnZsm/0/4a9d6c6b/O/LanzaMovies.png)
Quote from: SonicMan46 on November 09, 2021, 08:47:45 AM
LOL - ;D Lanza did have a great voice, and could easily do opera arias or popular songs (I usually dislike opera singers trying to sing American standards, but just me) - below are the Lanza movies - believe I've seen most of them and have a handful burned to DVD-R, which I'll pull out to watch on occasion - in fact, I've been getting rid of some of my DVDs by buying their Amazon Prime Video HD equivalents (if the price is cheap) - going to check right now to see if any Mario in HD might be there? Dave :)
ADDENDUM: when Lanza died suddenly at only 38 years in 1959, but father was devastated - we had moved over the Ohio state line to lower Michigan (lived next to a golf course that was in each state) - he played his Mario LPs every night for a week! ???
Oh, how sad! :(
Well, my memory was playing tricks on me; I had thought that I had the cast LP album of
South Pacific and that Lanza was on it! I was confusing him with Ezio Pinza. :-[ I do have him on a LP (which I found used at a thrift store) in
The Student Prince. I've probably seen him on t.v. in the movies in the past.
TD, So are you thinking of picking up any other Beethoven sonata CDs...hmmm?
:)
PD
Quote from: Pohjolas Daughter on November 09, 2021, 10:00:07 AM
Oh, how sad! :(
Well, my memory was playing tricks on me; I had thought that I had the cast LP album of South Pacific and that Lanza was on it! I was confusing him with Ezio Pinza. :-[ I do have him on a LP (which I found used at a thrift store) in The Student Prince. I've probably seen him on t.v. in the movies in the past.
TD, So are you thinking of picking up any other Beethoven sonata CDs...hmmm?
:)
PD
Well, the
Ilina Ibragimova and Cedric Tiberghian recordings piqued my interest until I heard the clapping (I'd likely never play the discs) - I've been culling these out for decades (just too many good old and new sets) - at present, I have the 3 below, two on a modern piano and one set on fortepiano - think that I'm a happy camper, unless? Dave :)
(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/61oy6zIi3NL._SL1000_.jpg) (https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/71VpR7SWteL._SL1278_.jpg) (https://img.discogs.com/JiTm5mCqI-bUf-7dxULeinRjvYM=/fit-in/300x300/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():quality(40)/discogs-images/R-16791324-1609852731-4081.jpeg.jpg)
Quote from: SonicMan46 on November 09, 2021, 10:23:50 AM
Well, the Ilina Ibragimova and Cedric Tiberghian recordings piqued my interest until I heard the clapping (I'd likely never play the discs) - I've been culling these out for decades (just too many good old and new sets) - at present, I have the 3 below, two on a modern piano and one set on fortepiano - think that I'm a happy camper, unless? Dave :)
(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/61oy6zIi3NL._SL1000_.jpg) (https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/71VpR7SWteL._SL1278_.jpg) (https://img.discogs.com/JiTm5mCqI-bUf-7dxULeinRjvYM=/fit-in/300x300/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():quality(40)/discogs-images/R-16791324-1609852731-4081.jpeg.jpg)
Don't know any of those artists/recordings. Will have to try a bit of googling later. :)
PD
Quote from: Jo498 on November 08, 2021, 11:27:44 PM
FWIW there was a 3 CD box of all the sonatas with Francescatti/Casadesus from Sony France 2001 and they are all in stereo. As 2-8 were all recorded 1961 it should be strange to have two of them not in stereo? Or is this an alternative recording of sonatas 5+6?
I'm not at home so I can't check but I'm sure I've got a couple of mono recordings. It wasn't on the Sony label.
Quote from: Holden on November 09, 2021, 01:22:11 PM
I'm not at home so I can't check but I'm sure I've got a couple of mono recordings. It wasn't on the Sony label.
Yes, there were some earlier mono recordings. I think these are now in the last Sony issue of the set:
(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/71xFPk2ua7L._SL1211_.jpg)
At home now what I have is basically all Sony.
4, 6, 7 & 8 from Paris 1961 Masterworks Portrait
5, 9 and 10 also from Sony on what they call Retrospective
I'd think that these are what's on the Sony and Profil editions.
I know I have something else somewhere from Biddulph but I'll have to actually look through my physical CDs to find it as it's also got some Mozart on it.
I still find it hard to go beyond these two.
Re-post just left in the listening thread - might be of interest here - Dave :)
QuoteBeethoven, LV - Sonatas Fortepiano & Violin w/ Ian Watson & Susanna Ogata for those who may want a recent period instrument recordings (done 2014-2017); the instruments are shown below (click to enlarge); but the fortepiano is by Paul McNulty (2000) after Walter and Sohn pianos from the early 1800s; the violin was built by Joseph Klotz in 1772 (Germany); the bow is an original, unlabeled pre-Tourte style model, likely French - reviews are attached. Dave :)
(https://img.discogs.com/JiTm5mCqI-bUf-7dxULeinRjvYM=/fit-in/300x300/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():quality(40)/discogs-images/R-16791324-1609852731-4081.jpeg.jpg) (https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-gWjBMT8dRXQ/Vzn-bqMyzuI/AAAAAAAAC3A/5JTG1I0mrmkH22eqUnlFywsU9SjoMOh5ACLcB/s1600/CiL5fMyUYAAOP6Y.jpg_large.jpg)
(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/71QGzFb-yeL._SL600_.jpg)
I am now enjoying a first listen to this new set, which was pressed in Japan. I had been on the lookout for their old Philips twofer sets, as I love their Spring sonata. After a long wait this release thankfully popped up on amazon.
amazon link (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00JCTX82M?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details)