GMG Classical Music Forum

Delightful Daylight Delius Debate Debut!

I like him OK. Not one of your choices, but still, I like him OK.  :)

8)

I enjoy a lot of his music and find it very very beautiful and atmospheric. His works can be so colourful and pictoresque! :)

Quote from: Gurn Blanston on January 28, 2013, 01:28:51 PM
I like him OK. Not one of your choices, but still, I like him OK.  :)

8)

Yeah, but try finding a pun answer for that!

Meh.

I really like Deliius'music, I find it very evocative, poetical and beautifully atmospheric. :)

I think Eric Fenby was spot-on when he wrote: "The music of Delius is not an acquired taste. One either likes it the moment one first hears it, or the sound of it is once and for ever distasteful to one. It is an art which will never enjoy an appeal to the many, but one which will always be loved, and dearly loved, by the few."

Thank goodness I'm one of those few!

My apologies to Karl and to all of the forum members for that irrational outburst. Thank you Gurn for cleaning up my mess yet again.

Sure he is different and not to everyone's taste. But I count him as one of the greats. Yes!

Quote from: springrite on January 28, 2013, 04:57:12 PM
Sure he is different and not to everyone's taste. But I count him as one of the greats. Yes!

Great to hear, Paul!  :D

Quote from: Gurn Blanston on January 28, 2013, 01:28:51 PM
I like him OK. Not one of your choices, but still, I like him OK.  :)

8)

Well, that criticism is brilliant, just brilliant. You're just lucky you didn't get run over by a lout on his way out of a bar.  Only positive responses to the poll are tolerated, normally.

Quote from: karlhenning on January 29, 2013, 01:55:59 AM
Well, that criticism is brilliant, just brilliant. You're just lucky you didn't get run over by a lout on his way out of a bar.  Only positive responses to the poll are tolerated, normally.

It's way better than my usual response towards the 20th century though. It's true, I like some of the Delius that I've heard rather a lot. I didn't realize before now that it was a point of controversy. :-\

8)

Quote from: karlhenning on January 29, 2013, 01:55:59 AM
Only positive responses to the poll are tolerated, normally.

But I get the feeling that the originator of this poll was in the opposite position.

Polarity!

Quote from: springrite on January 29, 2013, 05:07:03 AM
But I get the feeling that the originator of this poll was in the opposite position.

He was as he (Brian) called Delius' music "boring and dainty." ::)

Quote from: springrite on January 29, 2013, 05:07:03 AM
But I get the feeling that the originator of this poll was in the opposite position.

Not really, I've only heard 4-5 pieces by Delius, most of them once or twice. Brigg Fair is good, and I liked the clips I heard of Mass of Life (will listen soon). But I personally voted "Banana", and amazingly remain the only person to have so voted.

Quote from: Brian on January 29, 2013, 07:38:45 AM
Not really, I've only heard 4-5 pieces by Delius, most of them once or twice. Brigg Fair is good, and I liked the clips I heard of Mass of Life (will listen soon). But I personally voted "Banana", and amazingly remain the only person to have so voted.

In this poll, the fruit's impartiality seems impaired . . . .

Quote from: Mirror Image on January 29, 2013, 06:05:08 AM
He was as he (Brian) called Delius' music "boring and dainty." ::)

He is right, and so are you. The music is what it is. What you call it is often more a reflection of you than of the music itself. The two put together is your musical experience, and it is different for each of us, and often equally valid.

Quote from: springrite on January 29, 2013, 07:42:12 AM
He is right, and so are you. The music is what it is. What you call it is often more a reflection of you than of the music itself. The two put together is your musical experience, and it is different for each of us, and often equally valid.

Very true and Brian is making an effort at least and seems to be sincere about the endeavor, so my hat is off to him.

Boy, I hate to be the voice of reason. I must be getting old. Is this one of those things that happen when you turn 50? (or was it 30?)

Quote from: springrite on January 29, 2013, 07:49:33 AM
Boy, I hate to be the voice of reason. I must be getting old. Is this one of those things that happen when you turn 50? (or was it 30?)

Ha! Don't worry about it, Paul. You're still a young man.

Top o' the pops among classical equivalents of "smooth jazz" artists. Sonic wallpaper to my ears. But nicely polished sonic wallpaper, to be sure.

In an attempt to forestall outraged slander, let us note that (a) that's just one man's opinion, (b) no one is suggesting that everyone else must share this opinion, (c) the ostensible purpose of the thread is to survey members' opinions, and (d) I felt similarly about Sibelius for decades but kept listening until lightning struck and now he is one of my favorites.

Quote from: springrite on January 29, 2013, 07:49:33 AM
Boy, I hate to be the voice of reason. I must be getting old. Is this one of those things that happen when you turn 50? (or was it 30?)

For some it never happens. Maintaining compassion for those old enough to know better is a challenge. ;)

Quote from: DavidRoss on January 29, 2013, 09:12:08 AM
Top o' the pops among classical equivalents of "smooth jazz" artists. Sonic wallpaper to my ears. But nicely polished sonic wallpaper, to be sure.

I feel the same way about Mozart and Bach, so we're even. ;)

Quote from: Brian on January 28, 2013, 12:52:37 PM
Delightful Daylight Delius Debate Debut!

Delirious about Delius? Not at all; but I like my share of cowpat music (serisously).

Shakespeare puts me to sleep, but I love the collected works of Rod McKuen . . . .

Bach and Mozart are pillars of the art; where Delius (whatever one's feelings) is a reed in the wind ; )

Quote from: karlhenning on January 29, 2013, 09:57:54 AM
Shakespeare puts me to sleep, but I love the collected works of Rod McKuen . . . .

Bach and Mozart are pillars of the art; where Delius (whatever one's feelings) is a reed in the wind ; )

So you're no longer ignoring me, Karl? You acknowledge my post because Dave or no one, except myself, mentioned anything about Bach or Mozart. In any event, I can't stand either composer. Now, let's see if you can leave my opinion alone and move on...

I'm not sleeping though. Or ignoring. Or lying in wait. I submit the likelihood that every one here is well aware of where various composers stand in the Great Firmament of Composers. Of course, there are always outliers. :)

8)

Quote from: Gurn Blanston on January 29, 2013, 10:20:36 AM
I'm not sleeping though. Or ignoring. Or lying in wait. I submit the likelihood that every one here is well aware of where various composers stand in the Great Firmament of Composers. Of course, there are always outliers. :)

8)

Exactly. No matter how enthusiastic I am about the music of Nielsen, my feelings do not magically invest him with greatness equivalent to Bach or Mozart or Haydn.

Dang, Gurn, you're poised to vie with Paul for the title of Voice of Reason ; )

Quote from: karlhenning on January 29, 2013, 10:27:27 AM
Exactly. No matter how enthusiastic I am about the music of Nielsen, my feelings do not magically invest him with greatness equivalent to Bach or Mozart or Haydn.

Or Brahms or Schubert or Beethoven or Mahler...or...or...

Quote from: Mirror Image on January 29, 2013, 10:00:51 AM
...Bach or Mozart. In any event, I can't stand either composer. Now, let's see if you can leave my opinion alone and move on...

You have this in common with my wife Vanessa. I don't know if this is good or not, but it is true.

Quote from: springrite on January 29, 2013, 06:14:38 PM
You have this in common with my wife Vanessa. I don't know if this is good or not, but it is true.

She dislikes Bach and Mozart too? Splendid! Sounds like a good woman you got there, Paul. :)

Quote from: Mirror Image on January 29, 2013, 06:20:59 PM
Splendid!

You should know better than to tread that road again, John.

At any event, shall we state the obvious?  This is a poll about Delius.  Even opinions about Bach, Mozart, Milhaud, Leifs, whomever, are of profound irrelevance here.

On this thread, if you think that Delius sucks moldy clementines, this is the place to register that fact, and to exult in it! ; )

Even a certain neighbor learnt his lesson w/r/t Elgar. Just sayin'.

Quote from: karlhenning on January 30, 2013, 04:02:24 AM
Even a certain neighbor learnt his lesson w/r/t Elgar. Just sayin'.

Well, we're all slow learners, Karl. (But some of us are determined to prolong the process by clinging to unwarranted arrogance--is arrogance ever warranted?--like mold clings to rotting clementines.)

I've been trying to love Delius for as long as I've been trying to love Bantock and Bax and Bridge and Holst and RVW and several others. RVW eventually caught fire and I would not want to be without recordings of many of his works, even though none would be the first I'd reach for in event of fire. One or two of Holst and Bridge's works I likewise love.

But like Bantock and Bax, Delius has yet to inspire passion in my soul (though Bax comes close at times). To me their music is usually inoffensively pleasant but seldom stirring. And Delius seems the most like white bread of the three, with Bantock as whole wheat and Bax a more muscular rye.

Yet I would not claim that Delius is trivial or unworthy of my attention (even though that is posterity's concensus -- so far!). I keep listening with interest and an open mind. Last year I bought some Delius recorded by one of my favborite conductors, Barbirolli, as effective an advocate for English music as anyone, IMO. Perhaps it's time to give it another go.

So -- what pieces in particular would the Delius advocates around here recommend, especially to a listener with such abysmal taste that he enjoys Mozart and Bach and Beethoven above all others (excepting, perhaps, Sibelius and Mahler ... and Stravinsky and Prokofiev ... and Debussy ... and -- but I digress ;) )?

Quote from: DavidRoss on January 30, 2013, 09:22:22 AM
Well, we're all slow learners, Karl.

(* raises his hand *)

Quote from: DavidRoss on January 30, 2013, 09:22:22 AM
Well, we're all slow learners, Karl.

Slow is always preferrable to stationary.

. . . said Paul, confirming his Voice-of-Reason status : )

Quote from: karlhenning on January 30, 2013, 10:39:34 AM
. . . said Paul, confirming his Voice-of-Reason status : )

This status has been such a burden.

This is the piece that convinced me to be pro-Delius:

https://www.youtube.com/v/BeEC_nT4rsk

Quote from: Philo on January 30, 2013, 11:17:51 AM
This is the piece that convinced me to be pro-Delius:

https://www.youtube.com/v/BeEC_nT4rsk

A breathtakingly gorgeous work, Philo.

Quote from: Philo on January 30, 2013, 11:17:51 AM
This is the piece that convinced me to be pro-Delius:

Pretty convincing, Philo -- along with the other works on the same disc. I bought it. Thanks for the tip!

Since he was English, there was also some of that aesthetic to his music as well. Delius, like Debussy, Ravel, and all other composers labeled in this style of composing, is not for everyone. Is also a very raw and abstract feeling to Delius that I find very refreshing. Delius' music is merely an extension of what was going on with Debussy and Ravel, but he blended chromatic and pentatonic type of tonalities together and also experimented with different kinds of rhythms ear for unique harmonies. I now love Delius and when I first heard him I thought he was coming very much from that Impressionist style as Debussy and Ravel, but to my ears he's doing his completely own thing with it. He definitely had an "impressionist" style but is hard to get into if you're not willing to develop an ear for it.

Quote from: Leo K. on February 01, 2013, 10:20:57 AM
Since he was English, there was also some of that aesthetic to his music as well. Delius, like Debussy, Ravel, and all other composers labeled in this style of composing, is not for everyone. Is also a very raw and abstract feeling to Delius that I find very refreshing. Delius' music is merely an extension of what was going on with Debussy and Ravel, but he blended chromatic and pentatonic type of tonalities together and also experimented with different kinds of rhythms ear for unique harmonies. I now love Delius and when I first heard him I thought he was coming very much from that Impressionist style as Debussy and Ravel, but to my ears he's doing his completely own thing with it. He definitely had an "impressionist" style but is hard to get into if you're not willing to develop an ear for it.

Again, beautifully said, but I'm willing to accept that people just don't like his music, because they can't get into this style of composition. People can call him whatever they want. I sure as hell love to poke fun at Mozart and Strauss whenever I can. :) I've loved Delius' music the first time I heard it. I connected with it right away. I was actually completely mesmerized when I first heard The Walk to the Paradise Garden. His music has always been in the back of mind wherever I may be. I love so many other composers too, but Delius' music is special and only until fairly recently have I began to figure out how important and how significant it has been to my own life. His music has healed many wounds of mine and, so, in return, I have to put forth the effort to learn as much as I can about his music and his life. There are only a few composers that come along in our lives that make this kind of impact on us. I would be a complete fool to ignore what his music has done for me.

Quote from: Mirror Image on February 01, 2013, 11:20:14 AM
There are only a few composers that come along in our lives that make this kind of impact on us.

Let's count them.  ;D

Quote from: Florestan on February 01, 2013, 11:25:18 AM
Let's count them.  ;D

For me, it would be Shostakovich and Delius. Both composers represent two different sides of the coin. Shostakovich is, of course, violent, aggressive, manic, whereas, Delius is dreamy, ethereal, and lyrically alluring. I love them both dearly and couldn't be without either one of them. The end. :D

Quote from: Mirror Image on February 01, 2013, 11:29:44 AM
For me, it would be Shostakovich and Delius. [...]. The end. :D

So it makes only two composers that come along in our lives that make this kind of impact on us.  ;D

Quote from: Florestan on February 01, 2013, 11:46:55 AM
So it makes only two composers that come along in our lives that make this kind of impact on us.  ;D

:D

Who are two composers that you couldn't live without?

Quote from: Mirror Image on February 01, 2013, 11:53:39 AM
:D

Who are two composers that you couldn't live without?

I could live without no composer at all, seriously.  Living is not about listening to music, but about living, period. ;D Otherwise, Mozart and Beethoven... no, wait, Schubert and Bellini... actually, Rossini and Schumann... well, you get the idea...   :D :D :D

Quote from: Florestan on February 01, 2013, 12:01:04 PM
I could live without no composer at all, seriously.  Living is not about listening to music, but about living, period. ;D Otherwise, Mozart and Beethoven... no, wait, Schubert and Bellini... actually, Rossini and Schumann... well, you get the idea...   :D :D :D

It's just an expression of course, but music has been important aspect of my life. It's like jazz guitarist John McLaughlin said "Music has given me everything, so, in return, I have to give everything I have to it."

Quote from: Mirror Image on February 01, 2013, 12:06:30 PM
It's just an expression of course, but music has been important aspect of my life. It's like jazz guitarist John McLaughlin said "Music has given me everything, so, in return, I have to give everything I have to it."

Let me ask you something: is music THE MOST important thing in your life? If you would go deaf for the remaining of your life (which God may forbid from happening!) would you be less of a human being than your are now?

Quote from: Florestan on February 01, 2013, 12:11:17 PM
Let me ask you something: is music THE MOST important thing in your life? If you would go deaf for the remaining of your life (which God may forbid from happening!) would you be less of a human being than your are now?

Well no of course not, but it's the reason I'm on this forum. I certainly don't come here to chitchat about what Suzy or Billy Bob did last night. :D This being said, I have a lot of other interests, which don't pertain to music.

Quote from: Mirror Image on February 01, 2013, 12:14:05 PM
I certainly don't come here to chitchat about what Suzy or Billy Bob did last night. :D

Too bad! You might miss some entirely new things...  ;D :P

Quote from: Florestan on February 01, 2013, 12:16:15 PM
Too bad! You might miss some entirely new things...  ;D :P

No, I can go into a public restroom and hear that. ;)

Quote from: Mirror Image on February 01, 2013, 12:17:17 PM
I can go into a public restroom and hear that. ;)

If it's cold enough you could hear a tenor singing "Che gellida manina latrina'...

It's Mirror Image. Give him a week and the composers will be different.

Quote from: Florestan on February 01, 2013, 12:22:45 PM
If it's cold enough you could hear a tenor singing "Che gellida manina latrina'...

:P

Quote from: Mirror Image on February 01, 2013, 11:29:44 AM
For me, it would be Shostakovich and Delius. Both composers represent two different sides of the coin. Shostakovich is, of course, violent, aggressive, manic, whereas, Delius is dreamy, ethereal, and lyrically alluring. I love them both dearly and couldn't be without either one of them. The end. :D

I prefer Delius, John. Shostakovich has that constant tension which I find rather annoying.

I'm listening to this recording [asin]B0000VV4T0[/asin]

That tension climax somewhere in the middle of Country Sketches. And that Chord on Dance Rhapsody no. 1. Awesome! :)

Brian, can you explain the difference between poll choice 1 and 3? More or less the same I think??

Quote from: Henk on February 01, 2013, 01:54:00 PM
I prefer Delius, John. Shostakovich has that constant tension which I find rather annoying.

I'm listening to this recording [asin]B0000VV4T0[/asin]

That tension climax somewhere in the middle of Country Sketches. And that Chord on Dance Rhapsody no. 1. Awesome! :)

Henk, I'm glad you enjoy Delius! Great to hear! Shostakovich is certainly not for the faint of heart that's for sure, but I do truly love his music. Do you own any recordings of Delius' music?

I'm certainly going to get some Delius recordings. The one above I have in digital format. The box-set recording looked nice.

Quote from: Henk on February 01, 2013, 02:13:22 PM
I'm certainly going to get some Delius recordings. The one above I have in digital format. The box-set recording looked nice.

There were three box sets released during Delius' 150th Anniversary, which one of these are you referring to:

(http://www.silverdisc.com/images/64/675754041496.jpg)

(http://www.silverdisc.com/images/5/5099908417527.jpg)

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51kHw88H8gL._SL500_SS500_.jpg)

I own each of them and, of course, they're all essential to me. :D

I was referring to that second set. Which one do you recommend? I doubt between the second and last one you mentioned.

Quote from: Henk on February 01, 2013, 02:24:11 PM
I was referring to that second set. Which one do you recommend? I doubt between the second and last one you mentioned.

It really all depends on how much Delius you want and how large of a range you want a set to cover. The obvious choice for that would be the EMI 18CD set. It covers everything from chamber works to choral works to operas and everything in-between. The Delius Collection and the Delius Edition are more specialized sets. The Delius Collection is for the hardcore fan because of its' historical importance. Many of the performances are conducted by Eric Fenby (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eric_Fenby). The Delius Edition is compilation of all of Charles Mackerras' Delius performances on Decca, which most of the recordings are now OOP and quite hard to track down for decent prices. I hope this helps you in your decision.

Quote from: Mirror Image on February 01, 2013, 11:29:44 AM
... Shostakovich is, of course, violent, aggressive, manic, ....

Yup, that Largo from the Op.47, especially....

Quote from: karlhenning on February 01, 2013, 04:18:07 PM
Yup, that Largo from the Op.47, especially....

Quite possibly one of my favorite slow movements in any symphony. I'm not sure I would describe this movement the way I described Shostakovich's music in general. These were just the basic emotions that I personally find in a lot of Shostakovich's music, but there's so much more of course. Another thing I admire about Shostakovich is also one of the things I admire in Delius, Shostakovich always sounded like himself whether he writing something for solo piano, films, symphonies, etc.

Quote from: Henk on February 01, 2013, 01:55:26 PM
Brian, can you explain the difference between poll choice 1 and 3? More or less the same I think??

Actually, I left it uncertain what choice 3 means, deliberately.

Delirious means "Marked by uncontrolled excitement or emotion" - but you can also be delirious if you're especially ill.

Quote from: Brian on February 02, 2013, 07:00:54 AM
... you can also be delirious if you're especially ill.

Suffering from severe mental impairment; mad, crazy, raving, insane, demented, deranged, incoherent, or unhinged. In some cases a pre-existing condition, not caused by exposure to Delius's music. ;)

You made this poll a hard one, Brian. Choices 1, 3 and 4 mean more or less the same, just that you like his music.

Quote from: Henk on February 02, 2013, 02:22:31 PM
You made this poll a hard one, Brian. Choices 1, 3 and 4 mean more or less the same, just that you like his music.

If English were your first language you might recognize that the poll is just an excuse for some wordplay and should not be taken seriously.  (Should any GMG poll?) And from my perspective, options 2, 3, & 4 do not mean that the respondent likes his music, but rather believes that it's better heard less often (#2), that it's for folks who are mentally unhinged (#3), or that it's simply too trivial to matter (#4 -- banana).

I'm fairly fluent in English and I concur with my Dutch chum, so instead of trying to decipher the poll dots, I'm giving Freddy a jolly strong...


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