GMG Classical Music Forum

The Music Room => Composer Discussion => Topic started by: Brian on March 14, 2013, 06:10:06 AM

Title: Tcherepnin's Tchreasure Tchest
Post by: Brian on March 14, 2013, 06:10:06 AM
I was going to cross-post this in the Alexander Tcherepnin thread, but then realized we don't have one!

Quote from: Brian on March 13, 2013, 05:00:28 PM
Newly arrived today...

Alexander Tcherepnin: Piano Music Vol. 1

[asin]B007N0SXDQ[/asin]

A disc I'd targeted for some time, and I'm very happy indeed. To give some idea, Tcherepnin's father studied with Rimsky-Korsakov and taught Prokofiev, and Tcherepnin himself was friends with Martinu, Honegger and Roussel. So his early piano music (1918-1926) is right in a sweet spot of lyrical, rhythmical modernity that I enjoy very much. The later works are more experimental, harmonically free, and adventurous.

I suppose we can talk about the other members of the Tcherepnin family, but Alexander's the one whose piano music has caught my eye - and, as I recall, whose orchestral works are long favorites of Cato's...
Title: Re: Tcherepnin's Tchreasure Tchest
Post by: Cato on March 14, 2013, 06:48:20 AM
Talk about synchronicity!  I had been thinking about Tcherepnin and whether we had a topic for him, because this is Russian Symphony Month, but at that moment I was unable to check.  I intend to revisit the symphonies as a result.

A CD with the complete piano music!  I had also just skimmed through Amazon looking for new releases and did not see that one!

New people might not have gleaned that I was in contact with Mr. Tcherepnin and his wife back in the 1960's and 1970's.  I was not an official student, but he graciously accepted my juvenilia and encouraged me to continue composing, as opposed to "Kid, find a job down at the docks!"  8)   We also had discussions on aesthetics.

To be sure, Tcherepnin's works tend to be more Liadovian: the 4 symphonies are modest in scope, not epic like many of those by Prokofiev and (of course) Shostakovich.  This is not a criticism, but simply the observation that the emotional content is subtle: the epic may be there in any case, but hidden and very concise.

I have found his works in a general way parallel with Honegger's


Title: Re: Tcherepnin's Tchreasure Tchest
Post by: Karl Henning on March 14, 2013, 06:51:36 AM
My job is near the wharf . . . .
Title: Re: Tcherepnin's Tchreasure Tchest
Post by: Brian on March 14, 2013, 08:08:37 AM
Quote from: Cato on March 14, 2013, 06:48:20 AM
A CD with the complete piano music!  I had also just skimmed through Amazon looking for new releases and did not see that one!

An entire series, no less! Volume 2 is also out, and I can assure that the performances are excellent. I'm not sure how many CDs the project will ultimately run to, but I will be collecting them.

This might be a place for you to gather any Tcherepnin stories or insights you may have gleaned, should you like to do so.  :)
Title: Re: Tcherepnin's Tchreasure Tchest
Post by: snyprrr on March 15, 2013, 06:41:30 AM
All I know is he gets low marks at GMG. All I've got is an inconsequential, very short, String Quartet on an old VoxBox.
Title: Re: Tcherepnin's Tchreasure Tchest
Post by: Madiel on March 15, 2013, 07:00:42 AM
Hmm, I've got 3 works on the EMI box set of Tortelier (the cellist): a piano trio, a duo for violin and cello and a solo cello suite.

Unfortunately, all I can tell you off the top of my head is that the piano trio is one of the few things in my music collection that I actively dislike.  I seem to remember the other 2 works were a little better, but none of them especially inclined me to investigate more.  Tcherepnin afficionados are free to tell me what they think of the piano trio as a work, or as a recording.
Title: Re: Tcherepnin's Tchreasure Tchest
Post by: Daverz on March 15, 2013, 08:18:40 AM
Quote from: snyprrr on March 15, 2013, 06:41:30 AM
All I know is he gets low marks at GMG. All I've got is an inconsequential, very short, String Quartet on an old VoxBox.

GMG?  What the hell do they know?  ;)

I have the Bis set of orchestral music, and I thought the piano concertos were great.  It doesn't hurt that Noriko Ogawa's playing is a delight to the ears.
Title: Re: Tcherepnin's Tchreasure Tchest
Post by: North Star on March 15, 2013, 09:53:38 AM
Quote from: Daverz on March 15, 2013, 08:18:40 AM
GMG?  What the hell do they know?  ;)

I have the Bis set of orchestral music, and I thought the piano concertos were great.  It doesn't hurt that Noriko Ogawa's playing is a delight to the ears.
I have just the Brilliant-licensed set of the piano concertos, great stuff. And the Five Chinese Concert Etudes (Jenny Lin: Chinoiserie) are very nice indeed.
Title: Re: Tcherepnin's Tchreasure Tchest
Post by: Cato on March 26, 2013, 07:25:26 AM
While writing about Tcherepnin elsewhere... http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,21525.120.html (http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,21525.120.html)

...I decided to dig around to see if some old recordings from the 1960's were floating around on CD's.  A German company named Colosseum offers Tcherepnin's Symphonic Prayer, 5 Russian Dances, and the Ballet Suite from The Abyss.

They seem disconnected from Amazon.

http://www.colosseum.de/product_info.php/info/p2462_MEISTERWERKE-DER-WELT.html (http://www.colosseum.de/product_info.php/info/p2462_MEISTERWERKE-DER-WELT.html)

The Abyss ballet suite is first-rate, and the Symphonic Prayer has stayed around.  My original vinyl record did not have the 5 Russian Dances, so I cannot comment on that.
Title: Re: Tcherepnin's Tchreasure Tchest
Post by: Mirror Image on March 26, 2013, 09:33:25 AM
I need to dig out my Tcherepnin box set released on BIS and give a whirl. I don't think I have listened to one note of his music yet. Where should I start?

The box set in question:

[asin]B001JFKVQI[/asin]
Title: Re: Tcherepnin's Tchreasure Tchest
Post by: Cato on March 26, 2013, 10:51:02 AM
Quote from: Mirror Image on March 26, 2013, 09:33:25 AM
I need to dig out my Tcherepnin box set released on BIS and give a whirl. I don't think I have listened to one note of his music yet. Where should I start?

The box set in question:

[asin]B001JFKVQI[/asin]

If you want, one of his top works is the Second Piano Concerto, although the first two symphonies are not bad either.
Title: Re: Tcherepnin's Tchreasure Tchest
Post by: Mirror Image on March 26, 2013, 10:51:50 AM
Quote from: Cato on March 26, 2013, 10:51:02 AM
If you want, one of his top works is the Second Piano Concerto, although the first two symphonies are not bad either.

Kudos, Cato. I'll check those out.
Title: Re: Tcherepnin's Tchreasure Tchest
Post by: snyprrr on March 27, 2013, 10:41:12 AM
wow, this Thread Title regularly gives me the willies haha!!
Title: Re: Tcherepnin's Tchreasure Tchest
Post by: Cato on March 27, 2013, 11:05:58 AM
Again let me recommend (at least) the first two Tcherepnin symphonies:

[asin]B00002R15J[/asin]

This also offers the Fifth Piano Concerto, which I have grown to like quite a bit throughout the years.

c. 45 years ago I (daringly) told Mr. Tcherepnin that the Second Piano Concerto was superior to the Fifth.  His reaction was very tolerant (he was probably amused), now that I look back at it.

Now I would say that the Fifth shows how his style evolved over the decades.
Title: Re: Tcherepnin's Tchreasure Tchest
Post by: snyprrr on March 27, 2013, 06:21:29 PM
How does one tell Tansman from Tcherepnin?
Title: Re: Tcherepnin's Tchreasure Tchest
Post by: Cato on March 27, 2013, 06:46:01 PM
Quote from: snyprrr on March 27, 2013, 06:21:29 PM
How does one tell Tansman from Tcherepnin?

The Interpoint technique and the 9-tone scales would help.

To be sure, Tansman was also interested in ethnic/exotic music, but is perhaps more influenced by the neoclassical movement than Tcherepnin, and by Jewish traditions.

[asin]B000EFTECG[/asin]

The Sixth Symphony is unusual in that the opening movements are for only one section of the orchestra: one movement for woodwinds alone, for strings alone, and for brass alone.  The complete orchestra is heard in the final movement.  Highly recommended!
Title: Re: Tcherepnin's Tchreasure Tchest
Post by: Brian on May 03, 2013, 01:07:13 PM
Volume Three of the piano music is out now!

(http://cdn.naxosmusiclibrary.com/sharedfiles/images/cds/hires/GP635.jpg)

I'm listening to the "Eight Pieces, Op. 88," from 1954-55, which are like late romantic tone-pictures viewed through a strange and shifting kaleidoscope. Conventional titles (Reverie, The Chase, Etude) conceal unusual twists. The Reverie is my favorite; it begins with the same rhythmic accompaniment you hear in the second movement of Grofe's Grand Canyon Suite but goes in a very different direction. The booklet tells me that the final "Burlesque" is meant not to evoke clowns, but the fear of clowns!
Title: Re: Tcherepnin's Tchreasure Tchest
Post by: lescamil on May 03, 2013, 08:48:43 PM
Tansman to me is almost a 7th member of Les Six, since he fits into that French neoclassical mold. Tcherepnin is a very varied composer that not only developed those 9 tone scales but also dabbled in exoticism. Just compare the Piano Concerto No. 4 and Piano Concerto No. 5. The two works could not be further apart stylistically.
Title: Re: Tcherepnin's Tchreasure Tchest
Post by: Cato on June 11, 2013, 12:04:05 PM
I have completed listening to entire CD, which I mentioned a day or two ago elsewhere: highly recommended, either for those who have heard some of Tcherepnin's works, or for those completely unacquainted.


[asin]B007N0SXDQ[/asin]

Also recommended to the skeptics!   0:)
Title: Re: Tcherepnin's Tchreasure Tchest
Post by: snyprrr on June 11, 2013, 07:38:34 PM
Quote from: Cato on June 11, 2013, 12:04:05 PM
I have completed listening to entire CD, which I mentioned a day or two ago elsewhere: highly recommended, either for those who have heard some of Tcherepnin's works, or for those completely unacquainted.


[asin]B007N0SXDQ[/asin]

Also recommended to the skeptics!   0:)

You're really trying to get this to Page 2, aren't you?!! :P
Title: Re: Tcherepnin's Tchreasure Tchest
Post by: Cato on June 12, 2013, 03:55:44 AM
Quote from: snyprrr on June 11, 2013, 07:38:34 PM
You're really trying to get this to Page 2, aren't you?!! :P

No.  Just reminding people of a great CD, and helping GMG earn a few nickels.

The big attractions on the CD are the two piano sonatas: the Second Sonata from 1961 is a rather spectral work, moody, yet at the same time cathartic.
Title: Re: Tcherepnin's Tchreasure Tchest
Post by: Karl Henning on June 12, 2013, 05:52:59 AM
Quote from: Cato on June 11, 2013, 12:04:05 PM
I have completed listening to entire CD, which I mentioned a day or two ago elsewhere: highly recommended, either for those who have heard some of Tcherepnin's works, or for those completely unacquainted.

[asin]B007N0SXDQ[/asin]

Also recommended to the skeptics!   0:)

Giorgio is a fine pianist, and also a composer.
Title: Re: Tcherepnin's Tchreasure Tchest
Post by: snyprrr on June 12, 2013, 06:58:45 AM
Quote from: Cato on June 12, 2013, 03:55:44 AM
the Second Sonata from 1961 is a rather spectral work, moody, yet at the same time cathartic.

Well, THAT makes me want to hear it!!
Title: Re: Tcherepnin's Tchreasure Tchest
Post by: Karl Henning on June 12, 2013, 07:04:26 AM
Yes, certainly more on the crisp and spritely side . . . though with Hanson, you may be trending thicker and creamier, eh?
Title: Re: Tcherepnin's Tchreasure Tchest
Post by: Cato on June 12, 2013, 07:43:28 AM
Quote from: Cato on June 12, 2013, 03:55:44 AM
...: the Second Sonata from 1961 is a rather spectral work, moody, yet at the same time cathartic.

Quote from: snyprrr on June 12, 2013, 06:58:45 AM
Well, THAT makes me want to hear it!!

Somebody placed this performance by Maria Kalamkarian from an old LP (German) of the Second Sonata.

http://www.youtube.com/v/1PyBvpkuo8k
Title: Re: Tcherepnin's Tchreasure Tchest
Post by: springrite on June 12, 2013, 07:46:14 AM
Quote from: Cato on March 26, 2013, 10:51:02 AM
If you want, one of his top works is the Second Piano Concerto, although the first two symphonies are not bad either.

Not nice to recommend the only PC of his I do NOT have!
Title: Re: Tcherepnin's Tchreasure Tchest
Post by: Cato on June 12, 2013, 08:48:27 AM
Quote from: springrite on June 12, 2013, 07:46:14 AM
Not nice to recommend the only PC of his I do NOT have!

Such is the danger of GMG!!!   0:)

The various versions available (with the Singapore Symphony and Chetham Symphony) are quite fine: I do prefer the Singapore.  And if you can find it, there is a rare DGG recording of the composer playing #2 and #5 with Rafael Kubelik conducting.

(http://d2heru13qkbk4q.cloudfront.net/media/939393/scaled/16GB_351.jpg)

I am not sure they ever sold it as a CD.
Title: Re: Tcherepnin's Tchreasure Tchest
Post by: Brian on July 07, 2013, 06:09:40 AM
From the Tcherepnin Society homepage:

"In May, 2013 the Grand Piano label released Volume 3 (GP635) of pianist Giorgio Koukl's landmark 8-CD series devoted to the complete solo piano works of Alexander Tcherepnin, produced with the support of the Tcherepnin Society. ... A string of rave reviews greeted discs Nos. 1 (GP608) and 2 (GP632) of Mr. Koukl's series, released during 2012, and Grand Piano plans to issue the remaining CDs of the project by the middle of 2014. Releases have been scheduled as follows: Volume 4 (GP649), September 2013; Volume 5 (GP650), November 2013; Volume 6 (GP651), February 2014; Volume 7 (GP658), April 2014; Volume 8 (GP659), June 2014."
Title: Re: Tcherepnin's Tchreasure Tchest
Post by: Cato on July 07, 2013, 06:39:27 AM
Quote from: Brian on July 07, 2013, 06:09:40 AM
From the Tcherepnin Society homepage:

"In May, 2013 the Grand Piano label released Volume 3 (GP635) of pianist Giorgio Koukl's landmark 8-CD series devoted to the complete solo piano works of Alexander Tcherepnin, produced with the support of the Tcherepnin Society. ... A string of rave reviews greeted discs Nos. 1 (GP608) and 2 (GP632) of Mr. Koukl's series, released during 2012, and Grand Piano plans to issue the remaining CDs of the project by the middle of 2014. Releases have been scheduled as follows: Volume 4 (GP649), September 2013; Volume 5 (GP650), November 2013; Volume 6 (GP651), February 2014; Volume 7 (GP658), April 2014; Volume 8 (GP659), June 2014."

Save those pennies, Dudes!  Yes, I have been impressed by these performances, and by those works which I have never heard! 
Title: Re: Tcherepnin's Tchreasure Tchest
Post by: vandermolen on February 17, 2014, 04:24:17 AM
Just discovering this composer, although I think that I had an LP with piano concertos on (RCA?) his father Nikolai wrote a fine tone poem, rather in the spirit of Liadov, called 'The Enchanted Kingdom'. However it is Alexander Tcherepnin's Symphony No. 3 (1952) which has really grabbed me. I read a review mentioning that there were moments reminiscent of Alwyn and Moeran and this was enough for me to order it (inexpensively on Amazon). I have now played Symphony No. 3 many times and have not yet got on to the Piano Concerto No 6 or the Fourth Symphony. Apart from the aforementioned composers, Igor Markevitch's steely compositions come to mind. The thematic material is memorable and at times heroic sounding. I assumed that the triumphant end of the third movement was the end of the Symphony! The Symphony only lasts 26 minutes but contains a wealth of ideas and is, in my view, an inspired and individual work, with an oddly 'Chinese' feel at time (Tcherepnin spent time in China - I mean chronological time and not prison  8))
Well worth exploring:
[asin]B00007GXJ6[/asin]
Title: Re: Tcherepnin's Tchreasure Tchest
Post by: Ken B on March 14, 2014, 04:49:32 PM
Quote from: Cato on March 27, 2013, 11:05:58 AM
Again let me recommend (at least) the first two Tcherepnin symphonies:

[asin]B00002R15J[/asin]

This also offers the Fifth Piano Concerto, which I have grown to like quite a bit throughout the years.

c. 45 years ago I (daringly) told Mr. Tcherepnin that the Second Piano Concerto was superior to the Fifth.  His reaction was very tolerant (he was probably amused), now that I look back at it.

Now I would say that the Fifth shows how his style evolved over the decades.
I just bought this. Popping my tcherry with this composer so to speak. :)
Title: Re: Tcherepnin's Tchreasure Tchest
Post by: lescamil on March 18, 2014, 11:50:34 PM
Quote from: Ken B on March 14, 2014, 04:49:32 PM
I just bought this. Popping my tcherry with this composer so to speak. :)

Well, I can only hope Tcherepnin was gentle your first time around, heh.
Title: Re: Tcherepnin's Tchreasure Tchest
Post by: Ken B on March 19, 2014, 02:55:15 PM
Quote from: lescamil on March 18, 2014, 11:50:34 PM
Well, I can only hope Tcherepnin was gentle your first time around, heh.
I rather liked the symphonies and will spin that disc again soon.
Title: Re: Tcherepnin's Tchreasure Tchest
Post by: Cato on March 19, 2014, 03:37:24 PM
A few weeks ago, this CD was released:

[asin]B00HFDKT8S[/asin]

A curiosity: if you type "Alexander Tcherepnin" into Amazon, none of these Giorgio Koukl CD's is listed!

But if you just type "Tcherepnin Piano" then they all appear!
Title: Re: Tcherepnin's Tchreasure Tchest
Post by: Brian on July 31, 2014, 07:16:43 AM
(http://media.mdt.co.uk/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/G/P/GP659.jpg)

"This eighth and final volume of the complete Tcherepnin piano music series is devoted to music for children. It ranges from the optimistic Sunny Day from 1915, which the composer found and copied out on the day he died, and the vibrant Episodes, which he brought with him to Paris when exiled from Russia, to the devotional beauties of Histoire de la Petite Thérèse. Alternating the wistful with the highly energetic, the three Suites, Op. 51 explore the possibilities offered by Chinese musical tradition."
Title: Re: Tcherepnin's Tchreasure Tchest
Post by: Cato on July 31, 2014, 10:56:19 AM
Quote from: Brian on July 31, 2014, 07:16:43 AM
(http://media.mdt.co.uk/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/G/P/GP659.jpg)

"This eighth and final volume of the complete Tcherepnin piano music series is devoted to music for children. It ranges from the optimistic Sunny Day from 1915, which the composer found and copied out on the day he died, and the vibrant Episodes, which he brought with him to Paris when exiled from Russia, to the devotional beauties of Histoire de la Petite Thérèse. Alternating the wistful with the highly energetic, the three Suites, Op. 51 explore the possibilities offered by Chinese musical tradition."

A discounted set would be nice!  Many thanks for the information!
Title: Re: Tcherepnin's (1899-1977) Tchreasure Tchest
Post by: Scion7 on September 07, 2016, 11:16:40 PM
(http://s21.postimg.org/c9z1fsjjr/chamber_Tcherepnin.jpg)
     ^ click to enlarge

the review --->   http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2011/Apr11/tcherepnin_chamber_9072562.htm

[asin]B004DKUTJA[/asin]
Title: Re: Tcherepnin's Tchreasure Tchest
Post by: vandermolen on September 07, 2016, 11:24:48 PM
Quote from: Mirror Image on March 26, 2013, 09:33:25 AM
I need to dig out my Tcherepnin box set released on BIS and give a whirl. I don't think I have listened to one note of his music yet. Where should I start?

The box set in question:

[asin]B001JFKVQI[/asin]

Symphony 3 is my favourite - an eloquent work.
Title: Re: Tcherepnin's (1899-1977) Tchreasure Tchest
Post by: Scion7 on September 08, 2016, 04:32:06 AM
(http://s9.postimg.org/ygdra2yb3/BACK.jpg)

[asin]B0000521D8[/asin]

Though it is brief, it's interesting. Composed 1976.
Title: Re: Tcherepnin's (1899-1977) Tchreasure Tchest
Post by: Scion7 on September 08, 2016, 04:57:45 AM
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51VccO20WnL.jpg)

[asin]B000092R45[/asin]

the Trio (1960) ---------->   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VJ5g-sMFdBU

preview the Duo (1977) on YT -->    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JSUweeyAY2s

One of the more interesting compositions for this instrument-combo.
Title: Re: Tcherepnin's (1899-1977) Tchreasure Tchest
Post by: Cato on September 11, 2016, 04:59:17 PM
Quote from: Scion7 on September 08, 2016, 04:57:45 AM
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51VccO20WnL.jpg)

[asin]B000092R45[/asin]

the Trio (1960) ---------->   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VJ5g-sMFdBU



One of the more interesting compositions for this instrument-combo.

Many thanks for the updates!

https://www.youtube.com/v/VJ5g-sMFdBU


https://www.youtube.com/v/JSUweeyAY2s
Title: Re: Tcherepnin's Tchreasure Tchest
Post by: SymphonicAddict on June 21, 2019, 08:40:31 PM
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/61wrGkJInsL._SY355_.jpg)

I've listened to the Cello sonata No. 1 from the disc above and I was very impressed. This is something else. It has a resemblance to Prokofiev in style in its quirkiness and rhythms. I've also heard his symphonies and as far as I remember they are substantial.
Title: Re: Tcherepnin's Tchreasure Tchest
Post by: kyjo on June 22, 2019, 09:46:34 PM
Quote from: SymphonicAddict on June 21, 2019, 08:40:31 PM
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/61wrGkJInsL._SY355_.jpg)

I've listened to the Cello sonata No. 1 from the disc above and I was very impressed. This is something else. It has a resemblance to Prokofiev in style in its quirkiness and rhythms. I've also heard his symphonies and as far as I remember they are substantial.

Very cool, Cesar! Tcherepnin is certainly an unjustly overlooked composer. Have you listened to the Songs and Dances for cello and piano on that same CD? What a delightful work! I played it on my most recent recital back in April and had great fun with it.

I've also derived much pleasure recently from his Piano Concerto no. 4 Fantaisie, inspired by his immersion in Chinese culture and folk music. I especially love the colorful movement titles:

I: Eastern Chamber Dream
II: Yan Kuei Fei's Love Sacrifice
III: Road to Yunnan
Title: Re: Tcherepnin's Tchreasure Tchest
Post by: Cato on June 23, 2019, 06:00:49 AM
Quote from: kyjo on June 22, 2019, 09:46:34 PM
Very cool, Cesar! Tcherepnin is certainly an unjustly overlooked composer. Have you listened to the Songs and Dances for cello and piano on that same CD? What a delightful work! I played it on my most recent recital back in April and had great fun with it.

I've also derived much pleasure recently from his Piano Concerto no. 4 Fantaisie, inspired by his immersion in Chinese culture and folk music. I especially love the colorful movement titles:

I: Eastern Chamber Dream
II: Yan Kuei Fei's Love Sacrifice
III: Road to Yunnan

Here it is via YouTube:

https://www.youtube.com/v/3-s52cSAZrk
Title: Re: Tcherepnin's Tchreasure Tchest
Post by: SymphonicAddict on June 23, 2019, 03:19:21 PM
Quote from: kyjo on June 22, 2019, 09:46:34 PM
Very cool, Cesar! Tcherepnin is certainly an unjustly overlooked composer. Have you listened to the Songs and Dances for cello and piano on that same CD? What a delightful work! I played it on my most recent recital back in April and had great fun with it.

I've also derived much pleasure recently from his Piano Concerto no. 4 Fantaisie, inspired by his immersion in Chinese culture and folk music. I especially love the colorful movement titles:

I: Eastern Chamber Dream
II: Yan Kuei Fei's Love Sacrifice
III: Road to Yunnan

No, I haven't yet, but I intend to give them a try these days. If they are as good or better than the Cello sonata No. 1, then I'll definitely like them. I do remember a Chinese influence on some works of this composer, and that PC sounds enticing, mostly because I'm crazy about exoticism in music!
Title: Re: Tcherepnin's Tchreasure Tchest
Post by: vandermolen on June 23, 2019, 03:34:34 PM
Quote from: SymphonicAddict on June 23, 2019, 03:19:21 PM
No, I haven't yet, but I intend to give them a try these days. If they are as good or better than the Cello sonata No. 1, then I'll definitely like them. I do remember a Chinese influence on some works of this composer, and that PC sounds enticing, mostly because I'm crazy about exoticism in music!
Do you know Symphony3 Cesar? My favourite of those works which I know.
Title: Re: Tcherepnin's Tchreasure Tchest
Post by: SymphonicAddict on June 23, 2019, 03:56:17 PM
Quote from: vandermolen on June 23, 2019, 03:34:34 PM
Do you know Symphony3 Cesar? My favourite of those works which I know.

Jeffrey, I've heard all his symphonies but I don't have fresh memories of them, it's been some years ago, so I'm ashamed for not giving you a sincere impression. A thing I do remember is their catchy orchestration.
Title: Re: Tcherepnin's Tchreasure Tchest
Post by: kyjo on June 23, 2019, 07:36:40 PM
Quote from: vandermolen on June 23, 2019, 03:34:34 PM
Do you know Symphony3 Cesar? My favourite of those works which I know.

I know you didn't ask me ;), but I really like the 3rd Symphony as well. I recall it having a particularly beautiful slow movement.
Title: Re: Tcherepnin's Tchreasure Tchest
Post by: vandermolen on June 23, 2019, 10:17:47 PM
Thanks Cesar and Kyle - good to hear your views.
Title: Re: Tcherepnin's Tchreasure Tchest
Post by: Cato on June 24, 2019, 09:20:18 AM
When I was in contact with Alexander Tcherepnin in the late 1960's and 1970's, some of his advice to me mirrored the open, eclectic nature of his works, i.e. keep your ears open to everything, for the more aural experience, the better you can judge what is of value to you, and what is not.

He of course lived in the era of experimentation, of searching for an alternative to the major/minor system or a replacement for it.  As a Russian, it is not surprising that Asia attracted him, as Orientalism had already attracted earlier Russian composers.  His ideas on counterpoint led to using "Interpoint" in many of his works.

This eclecticism/experimentation is perhaps more obvious in the earlier works, but is usually present to some degree in later ones.  The symphonies are good examples of this open-mindedness.   e.g. The First Symphony from the later 1920's, has a Neo-Classical feel in the opening movement, but then you hit that all percussion Scherzo anticipating Edgar Varese by a few years.
Title: Re: Tcherepnin's Tchreasure Tchest
Post by: SymphonicAddict on June 24, 2019, 06:04:28 PM
Quote from: Cato on June 24, 2019, 09:20:18 AM
When I was in contact with Alexander Tcherepnin in the late 1960's and 1970's, some of his advice to me mirrored the open, eclectic nature of his works, i.e. keep your ears open to everything, for the more aural experience, the better you can judge what is of value to you, and what is not.

He of course lived in the era of experimentation, of searching for an alternative to the major/minor system or a replacement for it.  As a Russian, it is not surprising that Asia attracted him, as Orientalism had already attracted earlier Russian composers.  His ideas on counterpoint led to using "Interpoint" in many of his works.

This eclecticism/experimentation is perhaps more obvious in the earlier works, but is usually present to some degree in later ones.  The symphonies are good examples of this open-mindedness.   e.g. The First Symphony from the later 1920's, has a Neo-Classical feel in the opening movement, but then you hit that all percussion Scherzo anticipating Edgar Varese by a few years.

Interesting information and gratifying experience meeting the man face to face. Since you knew him, how was his personality?
Title: Re: Tcherepnin's Tchreasure Tchest
Post by: Cato on June 24, 2019, 06:51:51 PM
Quote from: SymphonicAddict on June 24, 2019, 06:04:28 PM
Interesting information and gratifying experience meeting the man face to face. Since you knew him, how was his personality?


My contact with Alexander and Madame Tcherepnin was through correspondence only.  So I cannot say much about his personality except that he generously took the time to read my theories and look at my compositions, at a time when they must have seemed rather puerile and arrogant (the theories) and eccentric at best (the compositions), and to respond without any disdainful laughter!   0:)

I should explain that it seemed that he dictated his letters to Madame Tcherepnin who then added her own comments.  Unfortunately I no longer have the letters, too many moves, too many adventures throughout the decades!
Title: Re: Tcherepnin's Tchreasure Tchest
Post by: SymphonicAddict on June 25, 2019, 01:01:52 PM
Quote from: Cato on June 24, 2019, 06:51:51 PM

My contact with Alexander and Madame Tcherepnin was through correspondence only.  So I cannot say much about his personality except that he generously took the time to read my theories and look at my compositions, at a time when they must have seemed rather puerile and arrogant (the theories) and eccentric at best (the compositions), and to respond without any disdainful laughter!   0:)

I should explain that it seemed that he dictated his letters to Madame Tcherepnin who then added her own comments.  Unfortunately I no longer have the letters, too many moves, too many adventures throughout the decades!

Too bad you don't have his letters any longer. They would have been an important document to treasure.
Title: Re: Tcherepnin's Tchreasure Tchest: NEW SONG CYCLE: My Flowering Staff
Post by: Cato on July 03, 2020, 10:23:39 AM
From Presto Classical:

Quote

This recording hides a remarkable detective story. In 1925–26 the French publisher Heugel brought out three volumes of 24 songs by the young Russian composer Alexander Tcherepnin (1899–1977), all setting poems by the 'Acmeist' Russian poet, Sergei Gorodetsky (1884–1967) – Tcherepnin's Opp. 15, 16 and 17. Not until 2014, when Tatyana Kebuladze, the pianist on this recording, examined the composer's manuscript in the archives of the Sacher Foundation in Basel was it realised that those three recueils were the tips of a much larger iceberg: a cycle of 35 settings of the 37 poems in Gorodetsky's collection My Flowering Staff, plus an anonymous epilogue – one of the most extensive song-cycles in musical history. The songs themselves are audibly in the tradition of Tchaikovsky and other such Romantic Russian composers, but with a degree of psychological insight conveyed through the harmonic piquancy typical of the new century.

Russian-American soprano Inna Dukach made her Metropolitan Opera debut in 2018 in the title role of Madama Butterfly, and in 2010 she made her debut with the Royal Opera House Covent Garden as Musetta in La bohème. Born in Moscow, she was raised in New York, earning an undergraduate degree in Psychology from Smith College in Massachusetts, and her Masters in Vocal Performance at Mannes College of Music in New York. After winning the 2005 Liederkranz Competition, she joined the roster of New York City Opera and sang Mimi in La bohème there for two consecutive seasons in 2006 and 2007. This album marks her recording debut.

A native of Kyiv, the pianist Tatyana Kebuladze studied with Tamia Kozlova, and graduated from the Glière State Music College in her home town, the alma mater of Vladimir Horowitz. Arriving in America in 1998, she continued her studies, earning a Master of Music degree at Rutgers University in New Jersey, where she now serves on the piano faculty.


See:

https://www.prestomusic.com/classical/products/8771203--tcherepnin-my-flowering-staff (https://www.prestomusic.com/classical/products/8771203--tcherepnin-my-flowering-staff)
Title: Re: Tcherepnin's Tchreasure Tchest
Post by: Cato on September 23, 2020, 02:50:59 PM
FINALLY!  After 2 months of waiting, this CD arrived today.  A cycle of 35-songs which were not known to be a cycle!

It seems that selections from the 35 were published in 3 groups by a French music company, and about a dozen remained unknown, resting in the manuscript in a Swiss archive until they were rediscovered in 2014.

I have not yet heard the entire CD, but song #16 (one of the previously unknown songs: In the Evening's Quiet Hour ) alone is worth the price and the wait!  A three-minute song that is one of the most spiritual, most enchanting, most affecting things I have ever heard.


[asin] B085RQN2N8[/asin]


Title: Re: Tcherepnin's Tchreasure Tchest
Post by: Cato on September 25, 2020, 01:20:26 PM
Quote from: Cato on September 23, 2020, 02:50:59 PM
FINALLY!  After 2 months of waiting, this CD arrived today.  A cycle of 35-songs which were not known to be a cycle!

It seems that selections from the 35 were published in 3 groups by a French music company, and about a dozen remained unknown, resting in the manuscript in a Swiss archive until they were rediscovered in 2014.

I have not yet heard the entire CD, but song #16 (one of the previously unknown songs: In the Evening's Quiet Hour ) alone is worth the price and the wait!  A three-minute song that is one of the most spiritual, most enchanting, most affecting things I have ever heard.


[asin] B085RQN2N8[/asin]



I have now heard the entire CD more than once (c. 55 minutes): the work is masterful throughout, and as one might expect, the songs which had been unpublished for c. 90 years number among the best in the cycle!

The poems by Gorodetsky have their own attraction: seemingly straight-forward, they easily deliver a path into spiritual puzzlement.  One might think of the cycle as a quasi-Pierrot Lunaire: the songs are very short, 1 to 2 minutes, and the piano acts more like a Greek chorus commenting on the text, rather than offering the singer a harmonic background.  Tcherepnin, however, has his own interests in exotic scales and his own ideas on polyphony (e.g. his "Interpoint" style was being developed, which stressed the independence of musical lines), and is not following Expressionistische Musik from which (according to one source) he was isolated during the composition of the work in Tbilisi (1920-1921).

Highly recommended!
Title: Re: Tcherepnin's Tchreasure Tchest
Post by: Karl Henning on September 25, 2020, 01:42:13 PM
Très interessant!
Title: Re: Tcherepnin's Tchreasure Tchest
Post by: Karl Henning on November 10, 2020, 08:53:09 AM
Quote from: Cato on September 25, 2020, 01:20:26 PM

I have now heard the entire CD more than once (c. 55 minutes): the work is masterful throughout, and as one might expect, the songs which had been unpublished for c. 90 years number among the best in the cycle!

The poems by Gorodetsky have their own attraction: seemingly straight-forward, they easily deliver a path into spiritual puzzlement.  One might think of the cycle as a quasi-Pierrot Lunaire: the songs are very short, 1 to 2 minutes, and the piano acts more like a Greek chorus commenting on the text, rather than offering the singer a harmonic background.  Tcherepnin, however, has his own interests in exotic scales and his own ideas on polyphony (e.g. his "Interpoint" style was being developed, which stressed the independence of musical lines), and is not following Expressionistische Musik from which (according to one source) he was isolated during the composition of the work in Tbilisi (1920-1921).

Highly recommended!

This is indeed exquisite!
Title: Re: Tcherepnin's Tchreasure Tchest
Post by: Cato on January 03, 2023, 06:38:57 AM
A review about the Three Generations CD with chamber music by Nicolai, Alexander, and Ivan Tcherepnin:



https://arcana.fm/2022/09/15/tcherepnin-generations/ (https://arcana.fm/2022/09/15/tcherepnin-generations/)

Concerning the Nicolai Tcherepnin works:

Quote

"...Cannily representative of either end of his creativity, Poème Lyrique exudes a demonstrably fin-de-siècle Romanticism in its emotional flights of fancy within an already heightened expressive context, while Andante and Finale finds the aging composer looking back with affection – just a little tinged with regret – to an era four decades passed. If the former piece admits of impressionist elements, the latter looks to the full-blooded manner of Russia's 'silver age' in its bracing energy and ultimate extroversion...."

Title: Re: Tcherepnin's Tchreasure Tchest
Post by: kyjo on January 03, 2023, 12:26:16 PM
A. Tcherepnin is a composer who tends to "fall between the cracks", even here at GMG, but his best works certainly deserve more attention. His "exotic" Symphony no. 3 Chinese and Piano Concerto no.
4 Fantasie represent him at his most colorful, imaginative, and memorable. Some of his other works have a more modernist, Stravinskian bent, such as the first two symphonies (the first is notable for its percussion-only scherzo). I have very fond memories of performing his delightful, tuneful Songs and Dances for cello and piano on a recital a few years ago.
Title: Re: Tcherepnin's Tchreasure Tchest
Post by: Symphonic Addict on August 29, 2024, 08:59:12 AM
To be released on November 8th:

(https://d1iiivw74516uk.cloudfront.net/eyJidWNrZXQiOiJwcmVzdG8tY292ZXItaW1hZ2VzIiwia2V5IjoiOTY2NDU2My4xLmpwZyIsImVkaXRzIjp7InJlc2l6ZSI6eyJ3aWR0aCI6OTAwfSwid2VicCI6eyJxdWFsaXR5Ijo2NX0sInRvRm9ybWF0Ijoid2VicCJ9LCJ0aW1lc3RhbXAiOjE3MjQ4NTkyNzR9)

By Alexander:

Violin Sonata in C Minor
Arabesque, Op. 11 No. 5
Piano Trio, Op. 34
Triple Concertino, for Violin, Cello, Piano and Strings, Op. 47 (Version for Piano Trio as Trio Concertante)


By Nikolai:

Cadence fantastique, Op. 42bis
Pièce calme, Pastorale (Version for Violin & Piano)
Azbuka v kartinkakh, 14 Sketches after Benois, Op. 38: No. 4, Villegiature (Version for Violin & Piano)
Un air ancien (Version for Violin & Piano)