Impressionism and Expressionism in April, are you in or out?
I could participate, to some degree. Especially if Ravel counts! :)
Quote from: ChamberNut on March 20, 2013, 07:55:02 AM
I could participate, to some degree. Especially if Ravel counts! :)
Absolutely and all of the composers who 'flirted' with Impressionism like Delius, Scriabin, Szymanowski, Roussel, RVW, Novak, Dukas, de Falla, Griffes, Respighi, Dutilleux, Ireland, Cyril Scott, Bax, among others.
Griffes it is!
Followed by Bridge!
Quote from: Mirror Image on March 20, 2013, 07:50:19 AM
Impressionism in April, are you in or out?
I get the impression that I wouldn't have much to say there.... :-\
8)
Coincidentally, a new survey of Griffes' piano music will be arriving on Hyperion in April, featuring the excellent Garrick Ohlsson.
Quote from: Mirror Image on March 20, 2013, 08:03:56 AM
Absolutely and all of the composers who 'flirted' with Impressionism like Delius, Scriabin, Szymanowski, Roussel, RVW, Novak, Dukas, de Falla, Griffes, Delius, Respighi, Dutilleux, Ireland, Cyril Scott, Bax, among others.
It's almost like you love Delius. (I'd guess one of them was meant to be Debussy...)
Quote from: Brian on March 20, 2013, 08:14:19 AM
Coincidentally, a new survey of Griffes' piano music will be arriving on Hyperion in April, featuring the excellent Garrick Ohlsson.
That's great news! I love the Noel Lee recordings but they never made it to CD. The NAXOS ones are not so good. I would certainly buy the Ohlsson!
Quote from: Brian on March 20, 2013, 08:15:06 AM
It's almost like you love Delius. (I'd guess one of them was meant to be Debussy...)
It's subliminal messaging to make us listen to Delius.
Is this a pretext to listen to more Delius? ;)
I would really like to participate though!
Quote from: Greg on March 20, 2013, 08:18:01 AM
It's subliminal messaging to make us listen to Delius.
John would never ever be subliminal about anything. Everything about John says
LIMINAL!
Maybe we can make April Bi-Polar Month ---- Impressionism AND Expressionism!
Quote from: Brian on March 20, 2013, 08:15:06 AM
It's almost like you love Delius. (I'd guess one of them was meant to be Debussy...)
Made a typo. Don't need to mention Debussy or Ravel as their a given in this style, so I mentioned other composers that have toyed around with the style.
Quote from: Greg on March 20, 2013, 08:18:01 AM
It's subliminal messaging to make us listen to Delius.
:P
Quote from: springrite on March 20, 2013, 08:35:18 AM
Maybe we can make April Bi-Polar Month ---- Impressionism AND Expressionism!
That sounds like an EXCELLENT idea, Paul! I love Expressionistic music too! 8)
Quote from: springrite on March 20, 2013, 08:20:53 AM
John would never ever be subliminal about anything. Everything about John says LIMINAL!
:P
Quote from: Lisztianwagner on March 20, 2013, 08:18:42 AM
Is this a pretext to listen to more Delius? ;)
I would really like to participate though!
Ha! Well, if want to listen to more of Delius' music, I certainly won't stop you. ;) ;D
I'll definitely join in for this. Ravel, Debussy, Scriabin, Szymanowski, and perhaps RVW wil feature, at least.
What is Expressionist music anyway? 2nd VS?
Quote from: Mirror Image on March 20, 2013, 08:44:29 AM
Ha! Well, if want to listen to more of Delius' music, I certainly won't stop you. ;) ;D
I will certainly include some Delius, as well as Ravel, Debussy, Respighi, Scriabin, Szymanowski, RVW, Roussel and Bax.
Quote from: North Star on March 20, 2013, 09:07:53 AM
What is Expressionist music anyway? 2nd VS?
I think it is Second Viennese School, like you guessed, although to my mind the adjective Expressionist suggests Mahler...
Quote from: Lisztianwagner on March 20, 2013, 09:17:49 AM
I will certainly include some Delius, as well as Ravel, Debussy, Respighi, Scriabin, Szymanowski, RVW, Roussel and Bax.
Sounds good, Ilaria.
Quote from: Greg on March 20, 2013, 08:18:01 AM
It's subliminal messaging to make us listen to Delius.
Won't work.
Quote from: Brian on March 20, 2013, 08:15:06 AM
It's almost like you love Delius. (I'd guess one of them was meant to be Debussy...)
Even a fan of Delius finds it hard to remember him sometimes.
Quote from: North Star on March 20, 2013, 09:07:53 AM
What is Expressionist music anyway? 2nd VS?
Characteristics of expressionism in music:
* episodic, fragmentary form and structure
* abrupt musical language
* clashing dissonances
* interest in common man
* tonality, triadic harmony, and consonance vs. dissonance are not valid anymore
* abstract procedures
* great emotional intensity
Yes, early Schoenberg and Berg definitely count here. Webern not so much. The guy didn't compose anything worthy of attention anyway. I think we can also include Krenek and Hartmann in this Expressionistic context. Mahler was mentioned and he is a good choice as would be some of Schreker's music.
I am definitely definitely in!! Looking forward to revisiting favourites as well as exploring much music by Delius, de Falla, Vaughan Williams, Szymanowski etc :)
Quote. . . Webern not so much. The guy didn't compose anything worthy of attention anyway.
ROFL
Quote from: madaboutmahler on March 20, 2013, 09:51:46 AM
I am definitely definitely in!! Looking forward to revisiting favourites as well as exploring much music by Delius, de Falla, Vaughan Williams, Szymanowski etc :)
I figured you'd be up to this, Daniel! :D
Quote from: Mirror Image on March 20, 2013, 09:53:21 AM
I figured you'd be up to this, Daniel! :D
I was very pleased to see this month had been created! :D
I'm going to be wanting to explore De Falla. Can I have one or two recording recommendations please?
Quote from: Mirror Image on March 20, 2013, 09:47:20 AM
Yes, early Schoenberg and Berg definitely count here. Webern not so much. The guy didn't compose anything worthy of attention anyway.
The 6 Pieces op.6, the 5 Pieces op.10...definitely expressionism, and definitely great music. Your dismissal of Webern is....well, I won't
express my feelings :D ;)
Sarge
Quote from: Mirror Image on March 20, 2013, 09:47:20 AM
Characteristics of expressionism in music:
* episodic, fragmentary form and structure
* abrupt musical language
* clashing dissonances
* interest in common man
* tonality, triadic harmony, and consonance vs. dissonance are not valid anymore
* abstract procedures
* great emotional intensity
Yes, early Schoenberg and Berg definitely count here. Webern not so much. The guy didn't compose anything worthy of attention anyway. I think we can also include Krenek and Hartmann in this Expressionistic context. Mahler was mentioned and he is a good choice as would be some of Schreker's music.
Thanks, John, this seems to be what several web sources say, too.
Quote from: madaboutmahler on March 20, 2013, 10:00:59 AM
I was very pleased to see this month had been created! :D
I'm going to be wanting to explore De Falla. Can I have one or two recording recommendations please?
de Falla is a favorite of mine, Daniel. Two recording recommendations? Sure! Here you go:
(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-ttwA6CY4eHM/TxGipf-KOQI/AAAAAAAABug/cM3hZ6u643E/s1600/Falla%2BAnsermet.jpg)
(http://991.com/newGallery/Manuel-De-Falla-Nights-in-the-Gar-532857.jpg)
Quote from: North Star on March 20, 2013, 10:03:25 AM
Thanks, John, this seems to be what several web sources say, too.
No problem, Karlo. I got it from a website. So just a simple copy/paste.
Quote from: Sergeant Rock on March 20, 2013, 10:03:02 AM
The 6 Pieces op.6, the 5 Pieces op.10...definitely expressionism, and definitely great music. Your dismissal of Webern is....well, I won't express my feelings :D ;)
Sarge
I've never been a fan of Webern. I do like a lot of Schoenberg and I love Berg's music.
Quote from: Mirror Image on March 20, 2013, 10:12:01 AM
I've never been a fan of Webern. I do like a lot of Schoenberg and I love Berg's music.
Not even
Langsamer Satz ???
Can Chausson and Faure also count as Impressionism? I was going to declare April 2013 French composer month, but I'm happy someone else prevented me from my gluttony of monthly proclamations! ;D
Quote from: ChamberNut on March 20, 2013, 10:15:48 AM
Can Chausson and Faure also count as Impressionism? I was going to declare April 2013 French composer month, but I'm happy someone else prevented me from my gluttony of monthly proclamations! ;D
Faure and Chausson were both pre-cursors to Impressionism and very much Romantic composers.
Quote from: Mirror Image on March 20, 2013, 10:05:49 AM
de Falla is a favorite of mine, Daniel. Two recording recommendations? Sure! Here you go:
(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-ttwA6CY4eHM/TxGipf-KOQI/AAAAAAAABug/cM3hZ6u643E/s1600/Falla%2BAnsermet.jpg)
(http://991.com/newGallery/Manuel-De-Falla-Nights-in-the-Gar-532857.jpg)
Thanks, John! These two look great! :)
How about Villa-Lobos? :)
Quote from: Mirror Image on March 20, 2013, 09:47:20 AMWebern not so much. The guy didn't compose anything worthy of attention anyway.
I nominate May to be "Unworthy Month": Webern, Mozart, J.S. Bach, and Francois Bayle.
Quote from: Brian on March 20, 2013, 10:37:52 AM
I nominate May to be "Unworthy Month": Webern, Mozart, J.S. Bach, and Francois Bayle.
:laugh:
Quote from: madaboutmahler on March 20, 2013, 10:36:37 AM
Thanks, John! These two look great! :)
De Laroccha performing Falla's
Nights in the Gardens of Spain is a must-have. She has recorded this work twice I believe. The Ansermet recording is a no-brainer. Ansermet was a natural in Impressionistic music.
Quote from: ChamberNut on March 20, 2013, 10:37:19 AM
How about Villa-Lobos? :)
Good call, Ray. Yes, he definitely flirted with and was influenced by the style.
Fortuitous timing alert: the start of April will also see the start of our new blind listening game, Ravel's piano masterwork Gaspard de la Nuit. Info coming soon. :)
Quote from: Brian on March 20, 2013, 10:37:52 AM
I nominate May to be "Unworthy Month": Webern, Mozart, J.S. Bach, and Francois Bayle.
For these, especially the first three, we need a YEAR, not month! How about the rest of the year?
I quite like these themed months and this is one I can participate in so I will say yes! :)
Quote from: Conor on March 30, 2013, 02:01:10 AM
I quite like these themed months and this is one I can participate in so I will say yes! :)
Conor! You're back! Where have you been, man?
Quote from: Mirror Image on March 30, 2013, 05:53:47 AM
Conor! You're back! Where have you been, man?
Hey mate - I've just been taking a break from the forum and stuff. I like this forum too much so I could'nt stay away for long! :laugh:
Sign up now for Impressionism Month Blind Comparison: Gaspard de la Nuit (http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,21672.new.html)
(You can also "sign up" here and I'll see it! :) )
Quote from: Conor on March 30, 2013, 11:04:56 AM
Hey mate - I've just been taking a break from the forum and stuff. I like this forum too much so I could'nt stay away for long! :laugh:
Excellent well I'm glad to see you back at it again. :)
Now listening to this disc:
[asin]B000099156[/asin]
I find Bach's Violin Concertos quite impressive. Does it count for this month's theme? 8)
Quote from: Fafner on April 01, 2013, 10:50:40 AM
Now listening to this disc:
[asin]B000099156[/asin]
I find Bach's Violin Concertos quite impressive. Does it count for this month's theme? 8)
Surely Bach belongs in every thread!
Quote from: springrite on April 01, 2013, 11:00:06 AM
Surely Bach belongs in every thread!
Underrated, under-appreciated and hardly recorded. The worst composer, totally!
Quote from: Opus106 on April 01, 2013, 11:09:42 AM
Underrated, under-appreciated and hardly recorded. The worst composer, totally!
I cannot believe this is a Bachafugaholic talking!
Digging into Mount To Be Listened To yields the DG Complete Ravel Box and Bavouzet's Debussy set.
So that will be my contribution to April.
Crossposted from 'Listening', but motivated by IEM:
[asin]B0006VXF32[/asin]
Takemitsu: A FLOCK DESCENDS INTO THE PENTAGONAL GARDEN (DG 20/21)
Tashi, Ozawa, Wakasugi, Yuji Takahashi (!), etc
[asin]B000003FOP[/asin]
Takemitsu: CANTOS (Richard Stoltzman, Tashi, et al - RCA, rec. 1978 and 1992)
I found all the pieces on the
CANTOS disc almost as appealing as many years ago when I first heard it; if pungent atmosphere is your thing, this disc is probably highly recommended.
The first two pieces on the
FLOCK DESCENDS (also with Stoltzman's chamber group Tashi, featured throughout that CANTOS disc) were beautiful and very much in Takemitsu's wayward-impressionist style, music meant to be mysterious and beautiful instead of merely important. I like the jagged, asymmetrical way the melodies seem to soar and blossom and dissolve.
Unfortunately, the later, shorter pieces from the 1960s (the second half of the record) did seem to be intended to be important. They sounded much less fresh to me than they did when I first heard them several years ago; in fact, they seemed like pretentious Darmstadt-order-following, and I am not, AFAIK, even temperamentally against that kind of Aspberger's serialism; I've found quite a bit of it bracing and exciting. (I think Webern is super, super great; sometimes laugh-out-loud funny, in fact, though that is a mood thing for me.) These pieces come off as White Elephant Music, though I do like the tone colors a bit, especially the use of decay and attack between flute and cymbals/metals. (Electric organ, not so much.) But these latter pieces don't even really probably belong in this thread, so I should stop talking about them.
I was able to get a cheap new copy the CANTOS disc very recently, to replace a disc I got free many years ago and lost; also it might very well get reissued soon, with Sony dumping its catalog like boxed hotcakes. (None of these pieces is included in the generous, mostly-traditional Stoltzman box that Sony recently issued.)
Quote from: Mirror Image on April 02, 2013, 03:07:55 PM
It's IEM (Impressionism/Expressionism Month). Hey, Takemitsu! Cool! I love that guy's music. Probably my favorite work is A String Around Autumn. Have you heard this work?
No, I haven't; and I see it's a viola concerto....what a treat! That's a major omission in my familiarity with him. Do you recommend one recording over others?
For IEM I will be listening to at least a couple more Takemitsu recordings: that 2cd of orchestral music on Brilliant (culled from the Denon series?), and maybe one or two more discs from the DG series.
I am crazy about the recordings reissued as IN AN AUTUMN GARDEN (DG 20/21): hands-down my favorite music by him that I've heard, though I am not sure whether it belongs in this thread? I kind of think so, but it's hard to know. It's also too bad this disc has become so expensive; I see some other 20/21 titles are getting reissued, so maybe we'll get lucky and have another shot at this fascinating collection of music.
[asin]B000066I9B[/asin]
Quote from: Octave on April 02, 2013, 09:28:08 PM
No, I haven't; and I see it's a viola concerto....what a treat! That's a major omission in my familiarity with him. Do you recommend one recording over others?
The only recording I own is the long out-of-print Nobuko Imai/Ozawa recording on Philips, but I'm sure you can find this performance on YouTube. As for actually purchasing the recording, best of luck to you! :)
I don't need reminding to play Debussy.
Other Impressionists (in part at least) on my list are:
Bonis (French)
Shcherbachyov (Russian)
Backer-Grøndahl (Norwegian)
Expressionism is perhaps something of a grey area.
It's time I got into Scriabin again though.
Maybe I prefer Ravel here, too.
Quote from: Ten thumbs on April 03, 2013, 04:54:34 AM
Expressionism is perhaps something of a grey area.
Both terms are being bandied about with impossible vagueness here.
Quote from: karlhenning on April 03, 2013, 05:03:21 AM
Both terms are being bandied about with impossible vagueness here.
Elucidate them, Karl.
Quote from: Octave on April 03, 2013, 05:06:50 AM
Elucidate them, Karl.
My dear fellow, do I make myself so free with [your time? ; )
No thread like the present for remediation:
[asin]B000060MDS[/asin]
R&D by Italiano (Eloquence reissue)
One is spoilt for choice in these shibboleths, no? It is insane how few I've heard. I still haven't really done the work to find out where the action is here, and where it's been. I think I need to hear Ebène, Cuarteto Casals, who else? Juilliard? Maybe the Chilingirian? ABQ? Hollywood? It's a no-duh problem....they are everywhere. Routinization lurks at every turn. To the archive!
Quote from: karlhenning on April 03, 2013, 05:03:21 AM
Both terms are being bandied about with impossible vagueness here.
Yes, and do we have Art Nouveau music too? and Fauvist?
I think one can take these analogies too far.
(http://onpoint.wbur.org/files/2012/10/DEBUSSY1000-500x293.jpg)
Claude Debussy at the piano, 1893
Quote from: Ten thumbs on April 04, 2013, 08:25:46 AM
Yes, and do we have Art Nouveau music too? and Fauvist?
I think one can take these analogies too far.
Indeed. In what way can a Piano Concerto be "Impressionistic"?
Just a heads-up that the Gaspard de la Nuit blind listening game (http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,21672.0.html) will be starting TOMORROW with the first movement of Ravel's piano masterpiece - "Ondine." Do sign up in this thread or that thread so you can compare up to twenty pianists' performances of "Ondine"!
Truly, the more the merrier! And our recordings run the gamut from legendary, to little-known but worthy, to one VERY famous pianist's only known performance of the piece.
Quote from: Brian on April 06, 2013, 05:06:35 PM
Just a heads-up that the Gaspard de la Nuit blind listening game (http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,21672.0.html) will be starting TOMORROW with the first movement of Ravel's piano masterpiece - "Ondine." Do sign up in this thread or that thread so you can compare up to twenty pianists' performances of "Ondine"!
Truly, the more the merrier! And our recordings run the gamut from legendary, to little-known but worthy, to one VERY famous pianist's only known performance of the piece.
Woo-hoo!