Following a warm welcome and helpful responses to my request for assistance with recordings of Beethoven's 3rd & 6th I'm back again looking for further advice
Mozart is one of my favourite composers;but the only recordings I have are compilations - everyone has to start somewhere!
I would welcome members' suggestions - works and / or specific recordings - to start me off
Regards
Mozart's best of the best w/ recordings:
Operas (Fricsay)
Piano concertos (Schiff/Vegh)
String quartets dedicated to Haydn (Quatuor Mosaïques)
String quintets (Talich)
Clarinet quintet (Oxalys)
There are others but this should get you started.
One of my favorites and a CD I will always recommend:
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Can't beat the price via the Amazon Marketplace!
Rene Jacobs Symphonies, Jos van Immerseel Piano Concertos, String Quintets.
I also endorse the Oboe and the Claranet concertos, (there was one of each).
Don Giovanni, Giulini's version is long in the tooth, but still terrific.
Mass in C, Hogwood, basically an unfinished masterpiece. But what is there is marvelous.
Concert Arias, Janowitz or Kiri te Kanawa.
Piano concertos no 21 and 27.
Mike
Let me say that I sympathize with your situation; Mozart's output is vast and it can be hard to figure out where to start. Hopefully you'll like some of my recommendations. Please note, though, that everything I recommend will be period instrument recordings unless otherwise noted because that's what I like.
People new to a composer often want to start with symphonies and this set by Mackerras is an excellent way to do that:
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A ten disc box set of his complete symphonies may seem like biting off more than you can chew, but given that it is priced roughly the equivalent of a single full-price disc you won't be doing yourself any harm if you buy that and stick to the late symphonies until you're ready to explore the earlier. I also think this is a great recommendation because Mackerras employs an HIP-influenced style of conducting and a chamber orchestra but uses modern instruments, so it won't necessarily give you the start that period instruments would if you're not used to hearing them. Highly recommended.
Speaking of his orchestral music, you should have a copy of Eine Kleine Nachtmusik on hand and this one (and everything else on the program) are great:
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Continuing in that vein, you should have a few piano concertos on hand. Others can probably recommend you a favorite box set but I would start here:
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It also can't hurt to have his final three violin concertos on hand; none of these are top-shelf best-of-the-best Mozart but they're charming and enjoyable.
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The clarinet and oboe concertos are also worth giving a listen to, as someone noted earlier, and this recording is very cheap when purchased used:
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Moving onto his chamber music, I strongly, strongly suggest this collection of his works for winds. It is nothing short of utterly delightful.
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This recording with the clarinet quintet and the Kegelstatt Trio (viola, piano, clarinet) also comes highly recommended. It's a wonderful 'end of a hard day' recording that rewards serious listening and features material you probably won't find on a compilation disc.
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The piano quartets are also great.
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You should also have some of his solo piano music on hand; I could happily recommend you Brautigam's set of complete piano sonatas and variations, but in the interest of trying to keep the price down I'll recommend that you start with this:
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His violin sonatas are also great works and this disc is my personal favorite so far:
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If you must have them on modern instruments :P this disc is wonderful.
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This disc of duo sonatas by Rachel Podger and Joan Rodgers is also quite nice, though I should note that it pairs works by Michael Haydn (the famous Haydn's brother) with Mozart.
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His string quartets are also important, in particular the Haydn Quartets (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haydn_Quartets_%28Mozart%29#The_six_quartets), but period instrument versions are hard to find and modern instrument versions are not my area of expertise so I will let others comment on that. I will only say one thing, and I rarely do this kind of thing, but I do not think you should get the Emerson recording (http://www.amazon.com/Mozart-String-Quartets-Dissonance-Hunt/dp/B000ATJ4FS/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1367175005&sr=8-2&keywords=mozart+string+quartets) of his quartets. I've tried to listen to it several times and it wrongly made me believe that I hated Mozart in the past.
I wish you luck with your purchases. Make sure to get back to us and tells us what you think!
Thank you for the compliment, and you are of course right that I left out opera...choral works, too, I would also say! I meant to leave a note at the end requesting that others deal with the vocal works in Mozart's output but forgot to. I'm glad that you took care of a large part of the job. :)
Don't forget this Mozart/Jacobs magic...
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Some threads to read up on:
Mozart's Piano Sonatas (http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,3507.msg84172.html#msg84172)
Mozart's String Quartets and Quintets. (http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,21479.msg696664.html#msg696664)
Mozart's Requiem K. 626 (http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,15234.msg371861.html#msg371861)
Mozart's Great Mass in C minor, K.427 (http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,21540.msg700577.html#msg700577)
Mozart Piano Concertos (http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,3279.msg78685.html#msg78685)
Mozart Symphonies (http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,19310.msg563219.html#msg563219)
Mozart: String Duos, Trios, & Quintets (http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,18512.msg513378.html#msg513378)
Mozart Violin Sonatas (http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,1290.msg30459.html#msg30459)
Collecting Mozart (http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,4885.msg117051.html#msg117051)
Have fun... 8)
Q
If you enjoy opera on DVD (half of the opera I consume, is via DVD, YMMV) you might consider these (very different, but both delightful) versions of Die Zauberflöte:
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"From the director of THOR..."
Poor guy. "Hey, I gotta eat!"
Just noticed that, and in a peculiar way, that's got me curious to watch Thor . . . .
Separately: Although it's a matter of watching patches, evening by evening, I've been taking in Phil Grabsky's wonderful In Search of Mozart.
This is my absolute favorite classical CD (and I have thousands of them)... Mozart Piano Concerto 6, 17 and 21 by Geza Anda
http://www.amazon.com/Mozart-Piano-Concertos-Nos-Géza/dp/B000001GQO/
Quote from: karlhenning on April 29, 2013, 04:32:19 AM
If you enjoy opera on DVD (half of the opera I consume, is via DVD, YMMV) you might consider these (very different, but both delightful) versions of Die Zauberflöte:
[asin]0780023080[/asin]
My favorite film/opera. First, Bergman is a genius, and second, Sven Nykvist is a genius. I love the choice of showing the performers backstage between acts, smoking, playing cards, being themselves.
Wonderful replies and thanks to the OP for starting what is already a fine thread!
Mozart Horn Concertos---Dennis Brain, Horn. This was my introduction to Mozart, many years ago.
=======================================================
Mozart: Horn Concertos Nos. 1-4 / Quintet, K.452 ~ Brain [Original recording remastered]
Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart (Composer), Herbert von Karajan (Conductor), Philharmonia Orchestra of London (Orchestra), Dennis Brain Wind Ensemble (Performer), Colin Horsley (Performer), Dennis Brain (Performer) | Format: Audio CD
Dennis Brain's Mozart belongs in everyone's collection. Those recordings are solid gold.
Absolutely....
The piano concertos are some of his richest and most sophisticated music; the late string quartets and the six string quintets are likewise inexhaustible. Best, Sean
These 2 symphonies are not as popular as 40 and 41 for some reason, but I love them. Both were featured in the movie Amadeus, especially 29. I think this is a special disc.
http://www.amazon.com/Mozart-Symphonies-Nos-25-Clarinet-Concerto/dp/B000001GC5/ref=sr_1_3?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1371340334&sr=1-3&keywords=mozart+symphony+29
Speaking of the movie, you couldn't go wrong by getting the soundtrack
http://www.amazon.com/Amadeus-Complete-Original-Soundtrack-Recording/dp/B000000XBV
Eine Kleine Nacht Musik, of course.
Some opera highlights if you like opera, and without boring you with the entire thing. I haven't heard this recording, but you get the idea.
http://www.amazon.com/Mozart-Opera-Highlights-Multi/dp/B000001VRW/ref=sr_1_1?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1371340584&sr=1-1&keywords=mozart+opera+highlights
I'm sure you've heard track 7, but of course you can get it on any disc with the piano sonata 11.
http://www.amazon.com/Son-Pno-Vol-W-Mozart/dp/B0000013NK/ref=sr_1_2?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1371340810&sr=1-2&keywords=mozart+piano+sonata+11
Mozart was the guy who developed the piano concerto, the opera, and the piano sonata in their modern forms, so I think these are the places to start. An incomplete set of the piano concerti, but with some of the greatest performances ever recorded, are those by Robert Casadesus with George Szell and the Cleveland Orchestra, and all of Casadesus's recordings of Mozart for what is now Sony are now in one box. Get it.
As for the piano sonatas, I have two sets to recommend. Walter Gieseking for all the Mozart solo piano music is great for mastery of form and structure, but for its wonderfully felicitous and inspired attention to detail, I recommend Alicia de Laroccha.
Then, of course, opera. Four of his last five operas are generally recognized as his greatest--Die Zauberflote (The Magic Flute), Cosi fan tutte, The Marriage of Figaro, and, the greatest of all, Don Giovanni. I am not that much of an expert on great performances of these, except that Giulini's Marriage of Figaro is generally recognized as one of the best performances of that opera. Get your recommendations for the others from other people.
Quote from: RebLem on June 19, 2013, 03:45:23 AM
Mozart was the guy who developed the piano concerto, the opera, and the piano sonata in their modern forms . . .
Yes to both the piano concerto and opera; that honor w/r/t the piano sonata, however, (as with, e.g., the symphony and string quartet) rightly pertains to Haydn.
I recommend the Piano Concertos. My favorite complete sets are those by Brendel, Anda, Uchida, and Perahia.
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Box sets are so inexpensive now, buying one instead of individual discs makes good financial sense.
I have and like the Brendel set but Neville Marriner's flacid accompaniment can be a problem. Brendel/Mackerras is more to my liking (not complete).
You left out my favorite one.
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My other favorite one, Barenboim/Berlin Philharmonic, is oop, unfortunately.
Quote from: Scarpia on June 20, 2013, 10:56:28 AM
I have and like the Brendel set but Neville Marriner's flacid accompaniment can be a problem. Brendel/Mackerras is more to my liking (not complete).
You left out my favorite one.
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My other favorite one, Barenboim/Berlin Philharmonic, is oop, unfortunately.
I would probably like the Schiff. He's my favorite Bach pianist, and I like his Beethoven PS as well. I haven't thought I needed a set of PCs in quite some time, but one can always be wrong on such things.
Quote from: Scarpia on June 20, 2013, 10:56:28 AM
You left out my favorite one.
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A fine, fine, fine, fine set. 8)
I think the best way to listening Mozart is the period instrument way. :)
People who suggested Rene Jacobs' opera recordings are true. For me these opera recordings are the true Mozart. I would suggest starting with the Idomeneo. If you interested in symphonies too he has two great symphony CDs also.
Piano concertos: very imortant pieces in case of Mozart. I think Gardiner and Bilson are the best and their complete box is easy to find. (Hogwood and Levin maybe even more better but unfortunately their CDs are hard to find.)
String quartets: Alban Berg Quartet. They don't play in HIP way but I dind't find better.
Piano sonatas: Ronald Brautigam on BIS CDs. The sound of the fortepiano is wonderful and Brautigam is very inspired performer.
Violin Sonatas: Podger/Cooper. Easy to find SACDs and beautiful performances.
Clarinet Concerto: Martin Frost on BIS SACD. Not period instrument but beautiful playing.
Quote from: Roberto on July 08, 2013, 10:57:58 PM
I think the best way to listening Mozart is the period instrument way. :)
Piano sonatas: Ronald Brautigam on BIS CDs. The sound of the fortepiano is wonderful and Brautigam is very inspired performer.
I do not recommend Brautigam in Mozart´s piano sonatas, his rather workman-like style does not fit my idea of the music.
Instead I would suggest Badura-Skoda and Bart van Oort.
Quote from: Jay F on June 20, 2013, 10:46:03 AM
I recommend the Piano Concertos. My favorite complete sets are those by Brendel, Anda, Uchida, and Perahia.
My favorites are Bilson/Gardiner, Barenboim and Casadesus/Szell :D ;) (and don't believe the BS about Szell conducting the Columbia; it's Cleveland).
(http://photos.imageevent.com/sgtrock/febgmc/MozPCBar.jpg)
(http://photos.imageevent.com/sgtrock/febgmc/MozartPCbilson.jpg)
(http://photos.imageevent.com/sgtrock/febgmc/MozartPCCasadesus.jpg)
Sarge
Quote from: (: premont :) on July 09, 2013, 12:28:09 PM
I do not recommend Brautigam in Mozart´s piano sonatas, his rather workman-like style does not fit my idea of the music.
Instead I would suggest Badura-Skoda and Bart van Oort.
+1 for van Oort.
Quote from: (: premont :) on July 09, 2013, 12:28:09 PM
I do not recommend Brautigam in Mozart´s piano sonatas, his rather workman-like style does not fit my idea of the music.
Instead I would suggest Badura-Skoda and Bart van Oort.
Hmm...and I don't recommend the Badura-Skoda. I once had the complete set and found it subpar. Oh well, I guess we could go round and round like this 'till the cows come home. ;D
Quote from: (: premont :) on July 09, 2013, 12:28:09 PM
I do not recommend Brautigam in Mozart´s piano sonatas, his rather workman-like style does not fit my idea of the music.
Instead I would suggest Badura-Skoda and Bart van Oort.
I don't know them well but I think Brautigam's style is pure and simple. Maybe too predictable but it is a good starting point to the other great performers like Oort, Staier or Levin.
I think the starting point for Mozart's music is the piano concertos.
Quote from: karlhenning on June 19, 2013, 04:04:48 AM
Yes to both the piano concerto and opera; that honor w/r/t the piano sonata, however, (as with, e.g., the symphony and string quartet) rightly pertains to Haydn.
I don't believe that Mozart and Haydn
alone developped any of this. Music development is about getting influenced by others and having impact on others in return. Vanhal, Dittersdorf, Beck, Hofmann, etc. where part of the process too even if their impact was smaller. For example, Mozart's operas are heavily influenced by Dittersdorf's oratorio Giob, a work Mozart admired a lot.
This kind of ignorance of "lesser" composers is ridiculous.
Quote from: Dancing Divertimentian on July 09, 2013, 05:23:52 PM
Hmm...and I don't recommend the Badura-Skoda. I once had the complete set and found it subpar. Oh well, I guess we could go round and round like this 'till the cows come home. ;D
My favorites are Guldas (aka the Mozart tapes). Maybe idiosyncratic, but oh so alive and exciting.
Quote from: (: premont :) on July 09, 2013, 12:28:09 PM
I do not recommend Brautigam in Mozart´s piano sonatas, his rather workman-like style does not fit my idea of the music.
Instead I would suggest Badura-Skoda and Bart van Oort.
But if your idea of the music were wider, Brautigam's style could fit, right? Now you let Badura-Skoda and Bart van Oort define your idea of the music.
I have Klára Würtz. I suppose she doesn't fit your idea of the music either? Well, I don't care.
Quote from: 71 dB on July 18, 2013, 02:34:49 AM
But if your idea of the music were wider, Brautigam's style could fit, right? Now you let Badura-Skoda and Bart van Oort define your idea of the music.
I have Klára Würtz. I suppose she doesn't fit your idea of the music either? Well, I don't care.
I never let any musician - no matter how excellent - decide my idea of any music, and my idea of these sonatas stems from my own playing of many of them, long before I heard them played.
Essentially I find Brautigam heavy-handed and uninspiring particularly in Mozart. On the contrary I find Würtz substantial and manly - not heavyhanded, and I generally enjoy her playing, even she is not among my top five.
Quote from: (: premont :) on July 18, 2013, 05:55:51 AM
Essentially I find Brautigam heavy-handed and uninspiring particularly in Mozart.
Well, but if your idea of Mozart's music were wider, so that it included the idea that the music could be uninspired and leaden . . . . ; )
Quote from: (: premont :) on July 18, 2013, 05:55:51 AM
I never let any musician - no matter how excellent - decide my idea of any music, and my idea of these sonatas stems from my own playing of many of them, long before I heard them played.
Obviously you don't think yourself as a musician, yet you are eager to criticize the playing of some musicians (Brautigam). Sure, some players may not be
your cup of tea, but why generalise your ideas to concern all people? What if someone played these sonatas differently and have other kind of ideas of the music? How did Mozart himself play these sonatas? Precisely according to your ideas?
Quote from: (: premont :) on July 18, 2013, 05:55:51 AMEssentially I find Brautigam heavy-handed and uninspiring particularly in Mozart. On the contrary I find Würtz substantial and manly - not heavyhanded, and I generally enjoy her playing, even she is not among my top five.
I have to admit I don't have Brautigam's Mozart, only Haydn and Beethoven. I have never found him heavy-handed on those. But that's just my idea of heavy-handed playing so I allow others disagree. ;)
Quote from: 71 dB on July 18, 2013, 06:24:34 AM
I have to admit I don't have Brautigam's Mozart
In other words, you are quarreling over something you've not listened to, and therefore have no direct experience with ; )
Quote from: (: premont :) on July 18, 2013, 05:55:51 AM
Essentially I find Brautigam heavy-handed and uninspiring particularly in Mozart.
As you know, I totally agree with this. On the contrary, I love his interpretations of Haydn's solo keyboard music. Playing Haydn, he is totally at home.
BTW, my favorite cycles of the piano sonatas are:
1. Paul Badura-Skoda
2. Bart Van Oort, Malcolm Bilson & Alexei Lubimov.
3. Mitsuko Uchida
4. Maria João Pires (1st recording)
I guess Kristian Bezuidenhout will be placed very high (along with Badura-Skoda or slightly below him), when he finishes his traversal on HM. :)
Quote from: Gordon Shumway on July 18, 2013, 06:45:16 AM
As you know, I totally agree with this. On the contrary, I love his interpretations of Haydn's solo keyboard music. Playing Haydn, he is totally at home.
BTW, my favorite cycles of the piano sonatas are:
1. Paul Badura-Skoda
2. Bart Van Oort, Malcolm Bilson & Alexei Lubimov.
3. Mitsuko Uchida
4. Maria João Pires (1st recording)
I guess Kristian Bezuidenhout will be placed very high (along with Badura-Skoda or slightly below him), when he finishes his traversal on HM. :)
Most interesting, thank you.
Quote from: Gordon Shumway on July 18, 2013, 06:45:16 AM
As you know, I totally agree with this. On the contrary, I love his interpretations of Haydn's solo keyboard music. Playing Haydn, he is totally at home.
BTW, my favorite cycles of the piano sonatas are:
1. Paul Badura-Skoda
2. Bart Van Oort, Malcolm Bilson & Alexei Lubimov.
3. Mitsuko Uchida
4. Maria João Pires (1st recording)
I guess Kristian Bezuidenhout will be placed very high (along with Badura-Skoda or slightly below him), when he finishes his traversal on HM. :)
As always, we are as one on the taste front. I place Bilson ahead of Oort and I don't have Pires. The only Bezuidenhout I have so far is that one-off
Stürm und Dräng disk which I am very fond of. I should have you do all my listing for me and save time that way. :)
8)
I think I started with EKN many years ago, a few piano concerti then the symphonies.
At around £8 for 10cds this was a new purchase, and how lovely it is when a small relatively unknown Orchestra excel themselves disc after disc.
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Orchestra Filarmonica Italiana / Alessandro Arigoni
46 Mozart Symphonies
Big boys eat your heart out, I took as much pleasure in the OFI as I did in many a well established 'biggie'.
I suppose this could qualify as a SDCB :) Its even cheaper Stateside.
Quote from: karlhenning on July 18, 2013, 06:31:46 AM
In other words, you are quarreling over something you've not listened to, and therefore have no direct experience with ; )
Yes I am. I have heard some on radio thou...
I have Klára Würtz and some sonatas also played by Jenö Jandó. My ideas of the music is wide enough to enjoy them both! I don't need Badura-Lada or Bart van Simpson or even Uchida. I'm over this performance snobbery.
Quote from: The new erato on July 18, 2013, 02:28:48 AM
My favorites are Guldas (aka the Mozart tapes). Maybe idiosyncratic, but oh so alive and exciting.
Thanks for mentioning the Gulda, erato. Sounds interesting. He's yet to cross my radar but I think it's time to rectify that.
Quote from: 71 dB on July 18, 2013, 08:47:24 AM
I have Klára Würtz and some sonatas also played by Jenö Jandó. My ideas of the music is wide enough to enjoy them both! I don't need Badura-Lada or Bart van Simpson or even Uchida. I'm over this performance snobbery.
I don't think it's necessarily snobbery, 71. This board is merely a tool and when you mix people and passion opinions will fly. You yourself are not above putting down Beethoven. Remember?
Quote from: sanantonio on July 18, 2013, 07:31:19 AM
But for the concertos, I put Bilson at the top, and on modern instruments like Anda and Perahia.
I dunno...I used to have Anda's set and about half of Bilson's set. Neither are still around, excepting for one LP of Anda. Bilson has the dubious distinction of having one of the worst pf/orchestra balances I've ever heard - if the pf were any more diminutive it'd be little more than a speck.
Anda's lacks passion for me, although I'm aware that that's Anda's style, so hard to fault that...
I do agree Perahia's is pretty good, the one disc I have is a keeper. Although his constant surging forward lacks something of the reflective qualities I enjoy in Schiff and Goode.
Anyway, just thinking out loud...and no snobbery intended.
Quote from: Dancing Divertimentian on July 18, 2013, 09:34:45 AM
I don't think it's necessarily snobbery, 71.
I think it is because the Badura-Skoda cycle it OOP and very expensive. This means that those who have the box can make those who have not feel inferior. I feel inferior because I have Klára Würtz. That's the problem. I should be happy I own one complete Mozart piano sonatas cycle but this board makes it hard.
Quote from: Dancing Divertimentian on July 18, 2013, 09:34:45 AMThis board is merely a tool and when you mix people and passion opinions will fly. You yourself are not above putting down Beethoven. Remember?
I don't put Beethoven down. I simply don't worship everything he did. My ideas of his symphonies just isn't wide enough to enjoy his use of orchestra fully.
Quote from: 71 dB on July 18, 2013, 09:52:54 AM
I think it is because the Badura-Skoda cycle it OOP and very expensive. This means that those who have the box can make those who have not feel inferior. I feel inferior because I have Klára Würtz. That's the problem. I should be happy I own one complete Mozart piano sonatas cycle but this board makes it hard.
I don't put Beethoven down. I simply don't worship everything he did. My ideas of his symphonies just isn't wide enough to enjoy his use of orchestra fully.
But your way of thinking is very twisted. I have the Badura-Skoda, not because I paid a lot of money for it, but because I bought it when it had just been released and it cost $30, or $6/disk. Hardly anything to feel snobby about. OTOH, I have heard many good things about Wurtz, and the only reason I don't have it is because I missed it when it was being sold by itself and I didn't want that big Mozart box in order to get it. Wurtz is reputedly an excellent box, what's to be feeling bad over? Shit, you can't own everything! And even if you could, why would you? :-\
8)
Quote from: Gurn Blanston on July 18, 2013, 10:00:38 AM
But your way of thinking is very twisted. I have the Badura-Skoda, not because I paid a lot of money for it, but because I bought it when it had just been released and it cost $30, or $6/disk. Hardly anything to feel snobby about. OTOH, I have heard many good things about Wurtz, and the only reason I don't have it is because I missed it when it was being sold by itself and I didn't want that big Mozart box in order to get it. Wurtz is reputedly an excellent box, what's to be feeling bad over? Shit, you can't own everything! And even if you could, why would you? :-\
8)
+1
Quote from: karlhenning on July 18, 2013, 06:52:13 AM
Most interesting, thank you.
My pleasure, Karl. :)
BTW, if you're interested in physical CDs after hearing your downloads, this set would be the best option:
[asin]B000EMSPVU[/asin]
Bart van Oort recorded every single piece of solo keyboard music composed by Mozart (adding the 4-hand works, too) and including some world premiere.
And its price it's quite reasonable on the AMP. :)
Quote from: Gurn Blanston on July 18, 2013, 10:00:38 AM
But your way of thinking is very twisted. I have the Badura-Skoda, not because I paid a lot of money for it, but because I bought it when it had just been released and it cost $30, or $6/disk. Hardly anything to feel snobby about. OTOH, I have heard many good things about Wurtz, and the only reason I don't have it is because I missed it when it was being sold by itself and I didn't want that big Mozart box in order to get it. Wurtz is reputedly an excellent box, what's to be feeling bad over? Shit, you can't own everything! And even if you could, why would you? :-\
8)
Sorry, I had a bad day today. The weather is bad, stock market sucks, I feel bad etc. Some days just suck.
I agree, $30 is resonable price for the set. ;)
Quote from: Gurn Blanston on July 18, 2013, 07:15:50 AM
As always, we are as one on the taste front. I place Bilson ahead of Oort and I don't have Pires. The only Bezuidenhout I have so far is that one-off Stürm und Dräng disk which I am very fond of. I should have you do all my listing for me and save time that way. :)
8)
What's new if the disciple looks like the teacher? :D 8)
I think today Bezuidenhout is better than he was in that
Stürm und Dräng disc. More serene and intellectual, with a certain darkness, not always present in Mozart interpretations. I mean Mozart never sounds merely light or courtly in Bezuidenhout's interpretations.
Quote from: 71 dB on July 18, 2013, 10:37:21 AM
Sorry, I had a bad day today. The weather is bad, stock market sucks, I feel bad etc. Some days just suck.
I agree, $30 is resonable price for the set. ;)
Hope your day improves, Poju. If it helps any, the Dow looks like it's up 90 points on the day at present.
Quote from: 71 dB on July 18, 2013, 10:37:21 AM
Sorry, I had a bad day today. The weather is bad, stock market sucks, I feel bad etc. Some days just suck.
I agree, $30 is resonable price for the set. ;)
Amen to that! Just kick back and listen to one of your Wurtz CD's, you'll be feeling like a hundred-thousand dollars in no time! ;)
8)
Quote from: Gordon Shumway on July 18, 2013, 10:41:56 AM
What's new if the disciple looks like the teacher? :D 8)
I think today Bezuidenhout is better than he was in that Stürm und Dräng disc. More serene and intellectual, with a certain darkness, not always present in Mozart interpretations. I mean Mozart never sounds merely light or courtly in Bezuidenhout's interpretations.
Yes, I have heard this. The artist matures. Well, I would be gratified if he would complete the set and I could buy them all at once. It isn't my way to go looking around and hunting down one disk at a time over great spans of time.... :D
8)
Quote from: Gurn Blanston on July 18, 2013, 10:54:52 AM
[...] Well, I would be gratified if he would complete the set and I could buy them all at once. It isn't my way to go looking around and hunting down one disk at a time over great spans of time.... :D
Yes, but you love original covers, my friend, so waiting will be a problem soon or later, if you don't purchase these discs right now. :)
Quote from: Gordon Shumway on July 18, 2013, 11:07:00 AM
Yes, but you love original covers, my friend, so waiting will be a problem soon or later, if you don't purchase these discs right now. :)
Yikes! I'm busted! :o :o
Yes, it's true, I was lying. I DO prefer the originals. You know me far too well.
Hmm, Bizz-WE-den-hoot..... damn. :)
8)
Quote from: karlhenning on July 18, 2013, 10:46:14 AM
Hope your day improves, Poju. If it helps any, the Dow looks like it's up 90 points on the day at present.
Just made some coffee and feeling a bit better, thanks. I do my stock business on Helsinki market (OMXHPI) which closed several hours ago. Nokia seems to be over $4 on Nyse, which is nice because I have 1000 stocks of it.
Quote from: 71 dB on July 18, 2013, 11:33:15 AM
Just made some coffee and feeling a bit better, thanks. I do my stock business on Helsinki market (OMXHPI) which closed several hours ago. Nokia seems to be over $4 on Nyse, which is nice because I have 1000 stocks of it.
Oh dear, $4, down from $40, year-on-year sales down 25%, and they've bet the farm on Windows Phone. :(
Quote from: Dancing Divertimentian on July 18, 2013, 09:43:38 AMBilson has the dubious distinction of having one of the worst pf/orchestra balances I've ever heard - if the pf were any more diminutive it'd be little more than a speck.
It's a realistic balance; one which wasn't exaggerated in the control room. Instead of Jumbo, the Fortepiano, we get the actual sound of the antique instrument struggling against the power of the orchestra; exactly what you'd hear in a concert hall. I love it; love the extreme difference in sound compared to the modern grand.
Sarge
Quote from: Sergeant Rock on July 18, 2013, 12:15:39 PM
It's a realistic balance; one which wasn't exaggerated in the control room. Instead of Jumbo, the Fortepiano, we get the actual sound of the antique instrument struggling against the power of the orchestra; exactly what you'd here in a concert hall. I love it; love the extreme difference in sound compared to the modern grand.
Sarge
Thank you, Sarge. So do I. I have all the usual suspects in the PI world, this one reigns supreme for me. :)
8)
Quote from: Scarpia on July 18, 2013, 11:59:05 AM
Oh dear, $4, down from $40, year-on-year sales down 25%, and they've bet the farm on Windows Phone. :(
Well I bought my stocks a year ago when they were $2.60. Nokia has surely had hard time but they are coming back.
Just look at Nokia Lumia 1020: 41 megapixel camera and Rich Recording able to record sound pressure levels up to 140 dB!
Try that on a "so 2007" iPhone! People will realise who is innovative these days.
Quote from: 71 dB on July 18, 2013, 01:15:40 PM
Well I bought my stocks a year ago when they were $2.60. Nokia has surely had hard time but they are coming back.
Just look at Nokia Lumia 1020: 41 megapixel camera and Rich Recording able to record sound pressure levels up to 140 dB!
Try that on a "so 2007" iPhone! People will realise who is innovative these days.
I love my Lumia 920, it does everything I want and way more too. It's a nice piece f technology and I hope that Mozart is enjoying his (to be OT). :)
8)
Quote from: Gurn Blanston on July 18, 2013, 01:17:42 PM
I love my Lumia 920, it does everything I want and way more too. It's a nice piece f technology...
8)
Way to go! ;) Have you tried Dolby Phone with headphones? Yellow or another color?
Quote from: 71 dB on July 18, 2013, 01:15:40 PM
Well I bought my stocks a year ago when they were $2.60. Nokia has surely had hard time but they are coming back.
Just look at Nokia Lumia 1020: 41 megapixel camera and Rich Recording able to record sound pressure levels up to 140 dB!
Try that on a "so 2007" iPhone! People will realise who is innovative these days.
SPL 140 dB? So you can record the last thing you heard before you went deaf?
Better cash out Nokia while there is still time and buy stock in Huawei.
Quote from: Scarpia on July 18, 2013, 01:28:13 PM
SPL 140 dB? So you can record the last thing you heard before you went deaf?
In a concert bass sound can get pretty loud to be felt. Human ear can take more bass than higher frequencies. The point is if your ears can take it a Nokia with Rich Recording can record it distortion free. Just listen to this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GZjC_OZ-w4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GZjC_OZ-w4)
Quote from: 71 dB on July 18, 2013, 06:24:34 AM
Obviously you don't think yourself as a musician, yet you are eager to criticize the playing of some musicians (Brautigam). Sure, some players may not be your cup of tea, but why generalise your ideas to concern all people? What if someone played these sonatas differently and have other kind of ideas of the music? How did Mozart himself play these sonatas? Precisely according to your ideas?
I do not know how Mozart played these works, and actually I do not care about it.
Quote from: 71 dB
I have to admit I don't have Brautigam's Mozart, only Haydn and Beethoven. I have never found him heavy-handed on those. But that's just my idea of heavy-handed playing so I allow others disagree. ;)
Brautigams Beethoven (I have the complete set except the two CDs with variations) is IMO something else, Beethovens weighty style suits him better, and he seems more inspired.. What I do not like is his Mozart.
I do not know his Haydn.
Quote from: karlhenning on July 18, 2013, 06:03:07 AM
Well, but if your idea of Mozart's music were wider, so that it included the idea that the music could be uninspired and leaden . . . . ; )
:) ;)
Quote from: Gordon Shumway on July 18, 2013, 06:45:16 AM
As you know, I totally agree with this. On the contrary, I love his interpretations of Haydn's solo keyboard music. Playing Haydn, he is totally at home.
BTW, my favorite cycles of the piano sonatas are:
1. Paul Badura-Skoda
2. Bart Van Oort, Malcolm Bilson & Alexei Lubimov.
3. Mitsuko Uchida
4. Maria João Pires (1st recording)
I guess Kristian Bezuidenhout will be placed very high (along with Badura-Skoda or slightly below him), when he finishes his traversal on HM. :)
Almost exactly my preferences, except that I do not know Uchida´s set. Generally I am reluctant to acquire modern piano versions, but on modern piano I prefer Endres, Pires I and Zacharias.
Quote from: 71 dB
I have Klára Würtz and some sonatas also played by Jenö Jandó. My ideas of the music is wide enough to enjoy them both! I don't need Badura-Lada or Bart van Simpson or even Uchida. I'm over this performance snobbery.
Quote from: 71 dB on July 18, 2013, 09:52:54 AM
I think it is because the Badura-Skoda cycle it OOP and very expensive. This means that those who have the box can make those who have not feel inferior. I feel inferior because I have Klára Würtz. That's the problem. I should be happy I own one complete Mozart piano sonatas cycle but this board makes it hard.
I never thought of it in that way. I also acquired Badura-Skoda´s set while it was cheap. And I really do like it.
Quote from: 71 dB on July 18, 2013, 01:54:47 PM
In a concert bass sound can get pretty loud to be felt. Human ear can take more bass than higher frequencies. The point is if your ears can take it a Nokia with Rich Recording can record it distortion free. Just listen to this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GZjC_OZ-w4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GZjC_OZ-w4)
We're getting far off the topic of Mozart here, but I find it bizarre that this would be a criteria for choosing a phone. I'm just at the point of trading in my dumb cell-phone for a smartphone and the criteria is whether it works as a phone and whether it works as a tiny web-browser, especially for maps. Being able to snap a picture would also be nice. Based on my experience with an iPad and Mac, I think I'm going for an iPhone. Android is the other alternative. The choice, as I see it, is Safari vs Chrome. I can't imagine ever getting a Windows phone.
OTOH, I just collected all of the Uchida Mozart Sonata discs. I took the trouble of finding used copies of all of the original releases because the boxed set excludes some of the fillers, which in some cases are more interesting than the Sonatas themselves (Adagio in b-minor, little gigue).
Quote from: Sergeant Rock on July 18, 2013, 12:15:39 PM
It's a realistic balance; one which wasn't exaggerated in the control room. Instead of Jumbo, the Fortepiano, we get the actual sound of the antique instrument struggling against the power of the orchestra; exactly what you'd hear in a concert hall. I love it; love the extreme difference in sound compared to the modern grand.
Sarge
Well, as "realistic" as we can get 200 years on! Which certainly leaves the door wide open to scholarly interpretation.
Personally I don't enjoy "Jumbo" the piano either. Never have. I take much delight in the "integrated" approach to Mozart's PCs, which is the calling cards for both Schiff and Goode. Hence my affection for them. But the key word here is integrated. Bilson hides too much behind the orchestra at too many key points along the way...for my taste, of course.
Besides, I have a hard time believing an aspiring virtuoso like Mozart would want his instrument to "struggle" against an orchestra almost to the point of anonymity. Ultimately the pianist is center stage.
Quote from: Sergeant Rock on July 18, 2013, 12:15:39 PM
It's a realistic balance; one which wasn't exaggerated in the control room. Instead of Jumbo, the Fortepiano, we get the actual sound of the antique instrument struggling against the power of the orchestra; exactly what you'd hear in a concert hall. I love it; love the extreme difference in sound compared to the modern grand.
Sarge
I heard Bilson live in Boulder once. I would have loved his playing, but unfortunately he was playing his fortepiano against a modern-instrument orchestra, and even though they played pretty softly, he had to pound to be heard at all! It sounded pretty raw. :o
[OT]
Quote from: Scarpia on July 18, 2013, 02:37:35 PM
We're getting far off the topic of Mozart here, but I find it bizarre that this would be a criteria for choosing a phone.
Nobody said this is a criteria for choosing a phone (but for some it is). It's just that if record something with your phone, the sound quality is probably pristine if the phone happens to be is a Nokia Lumia with Rich Recording. It's a plus if not a criteria for choosing.
Quote from: Scarpia on July 18, 2013, 02:37:35 PMI'm just at the point of trading in my dumb cell-phone for a smartphone and the criteria is whether it works as a phone...
I think every smartphone works as a phone. Why wouldn't they?
Quote from: Scarpia on July 18, 2013, 02:37:35 PM...and whether it works as a tiny web-browser, especially for maps.
Nokia happens to be pretty good with maps: http://here.com/ (http://here.com/)
Quote from: Scarpia on July 18, 2013, 02:37:35 PMBeing able to snap a picture would also be nice.
Know what? The first cellphone camera ever was in a Nokia phone. During the last few years Nokia has been pushing the boundaries of mobile imaging like no one else. Just look at Nokia Lumia 1020! Compared to that monster the camera of an iPhone looks pretty primitive...
Quote from: Scarpia on July 18, 2013, 02:37:35 PMBased on my experience with an iPad and Mac, I think I'm going for an iPhone. Android is the other alternative. The choice, as I see it, is Safari vs Chrome. I can't imagine ever getting a Windows phone.
Hopefully you are happy with what you end up choosing. ;)
[/OT]
Quote from: sanantonio on July 18, 2013, 11:01:28 AM
Anda's was my first set so has sentimental advantage, but I still enjoy it quite a bit. I can't agree with you about the balance between the keyboard and the orchestra concerning Bilson and Gardiner, I think they are perfectly balanced. However, I never listen over headphones, and this might explain our different impressions.
Balance between piano and orchestra on Bildon recordings is good for me also.
Quote from: 71 dB on July 20, 2013, 01:45:56 AM
Know what? The first cellphone camera ever was in a Nokia phone. During the last few years Nokia has been pushing the boundaries of mobile imaging like no one else. Just look at Nokia Lumia 1020! Compared to that monster the camera of an iPhone looks pretty primitive...
I'll keep that in mind when I need a camera with a phone capability.
Quote from: Dancing Divertimentian on April 26, 2013, 04:37:52 PM
Mozart's best of the best w/ recordings:
Operas (Fricsay)
Fricsay is good Mozart conductor (even if he used modern instruments) but the balance between the orchestra and the singers is very wrong. I have the Magic Flute and I can't listen to it because the volume of the singers is too loud to the orchestra. I don't have other Fricsay Mozart opera recording but I've read about this problem regarding the other recordings also.
Quote from: Roberto on July 28, 2013, 07:04:38 AM
Fricsay is good Mozart conductor (even if he used modern instruments) but the balance between the orchestra and the singers is very wrong. I have the Magic Flute and I can't listen to it because the volume of the singers is too loud to the orchestra. I don't have other Fricsay Mozart opera recording but I've read about this problem regarding the other recordings also.
You are absolutely correct about the voice/orchestra balance on the
Magic Flute. It's skewed too much in favor of the voices (though I believe the recording does have its followers). The orchestra really suffers under the weight, IMO. I've actually written about this problem before on this board and because of this I've never felt compelled to buy the recording.
However, the information you've read (from whatever sources) about the balances on at least three of the other opera recordings is inaccurate. I've long owned
Figaro,
Giovanni, and
Entfürung, and the balances couldn't be more appropriate. I recommend you listen to these recordings first-hand before passing judgement.
I haven't heard the grainy
Idomeneo, which was recorded live, so there may very well be a problem with that one.
Quote from: Dancing Divertimentian on July 28, 2013, 06:12:32 PM
However, the information you've read (from whatever sources) about the balances on at least three of the other opera recordings is inaccurate. I've long owned Figaro, Giovanni, and Entfürung, and the balances couldn't be more appropriate. I recommend you listen to these recordings first-hand before passing judgement.
Thank you for the suggestion! Actually I was wrong because I've read about this problem years ago on Amazon reviews. Now I find these only in the Mass in c minor (Larry VanDeSande wrote: "Another 1960s technique is apparent whenever the soloists enter: they are so closely miked tney sound larger than life and dwarf the orchestra. When the quartet enters, you hardly know there is an orchestra at all. This creates an unnatural sound picture, like the soloists are standing next to you and the orchestra is somewhere down the street.") He wrote it is a 1960s technique and I thought it is true for the other operas also.
And the Don Giovanni. (Santa Fe Listener: "But if you do buy this set, know that the remastered sonics are birght and the voices very close.")
Quote from: Roberto on July 29, 2013, 12:44:31 AM
Thank you for the suggestion! Actually I was wrong because I've read about this problem years ago on Amazon reviews. Now I find these only in the Mass in c minor (Larry VanDeSande wrote: "Another 1960s technique is apparent whenever the soloists enter: they are so closely miked tney sound larger than life and dwarf the orchestra. When the quartet enters, you hardly know there is an orchestra at all. This creates an unnatural sound picture, like the soloists are standing next to you and the orchestra is somewhere down the street.") He wrote it is a 1960s technique and I thought it is true for the other operas also.
And the Don Giovanni. (Santa Fe Listener: "But if you do buy this set, know that the remastered sonics are birght and the voices very close.")
Overall the three Fricsay Mozart operas I have are wonderfully recorded for the time and stand up extremely well even by today's standards.
However, as far as
Don Giovanni it isn't the remastered version I have but the original CD issue from the early 90s. It indeed sounds marvelous. Unfortunately Universal's remastering technique these days isn't always the "unveiling of sound" it claims and can have older recordings sounding "more spacious" but the tradeoff can be a lack of bloom and warmth (strings particularly can sound shrill). The other downside is balances have been known to be altered from the original and not always in a positive way.
What Santa Fe Listener says about the
remastered Don Giovanni might well be true. But I can't say for sure. The other thing is is that Santa Fe Listener isn't exactly a revered Amazon "reviewer" around these parts (GMG) and I've found him at times extremely eccentric, especially in his vendetta against Radu Lupu. Apparently Santa Fe Listener spares no expense in acquiring gobs of Lupu recordings only to trash them on Amazon. Why anyone would aurally torture themselves like that just to sound off like an "expert" on Amazon is beyond me.
Anyway, Santa Fe Listener does have a leg up on me as far as
Don Giovanni as he's heard the remastered version and I haven't. I'd say if you can find it anywhere the original CD issue is a gem of a recording and well worth seeking out. The remastered version might well prove to be not as disastrous as Santa Fe Listener makes it out to be, too. So it might be worth an audition if you can swing it.
BTW, the
Entführung I have actually
is the remastered version and I find the balances ideal. Expertly done in this case. Just goes to show....
I saw Peter Brook's adaptation of Magic Flute last week, it's an old production but somehow I'd missed it up to now. No set as such, just a bunch of bamboo sticks for the singers to create improvisations with. No orchestra, just a piano accompaniment, based more or less on Mozart's music, though not always his music for Zauberflöte.
Dialogue in French (the show was in Paris), songs in German, with French surtitles. That's the way to do it, the dialogue is essential, and you need to be able to follow it in an unmediated way.
In his notes Brook says that he thinks that by removing all the connections to masonry he's universalising the opera. That's right I think. And by encouraging the actors to play, like children, he's reconnecting with a spirit of playfulness in Mozart's music. There was some attempt to cut out the fourth wall, the actors engaged with us, and so we, the audience were, in a way, part of this playfulness.
Brook's ideas are nearly 50 years old now, but they still seem at the cutting edge to me.
I don't consider the connections to Freemasonry in Die Zauberflöte at all restrictive; and so, probably, I should incline to consider Brook's project here as arrant bowdlerization.
Quote from: karlhenning on August 09, 2013, 11:24:06 AM
I don't consider the connections to Freemasonry in Die Zauberflöte at all restrictive; and so, probably, I should incline to consider Brook's project here as arrant bowdlerization.
Not being as polite a man as Karl, I'll just call Brook's project total crap.
Quote from: Sammy on August 09, 2013, 11:52:51 AM
Not being as polite a man as Karl, I'll just call Brook's project total crap.
Why?
Quote from: sanantonio on August 09, 2013, 11:27:45 AM
These kinds of "cutting edge" ideas, I can do without.
To be blunt (pun intended) , cutting out the Freemasonry runs counter to the idea of universalizing the meaning, since for Mozart and his contemporaries, Freemasonry was in the forefront of universalizing religion and the life of the mind in general.
Quote from: Mandryka on August 09, 2013, 12:27:13 PM
Why?
Maybe because the idea that one of Mozart's great works needs to be
fixed is idiotic.
Quote from: Jeffrey Smith on August 09, 2013, 12:39:03 PM
To be blunt (pun intended) , cutting out the Freemasonry runs counter to the idea of universalizing the meaning, since for Mozart and his contemporaries, Freemasonry was in the forefront of universalizing religion and the life of the mind in general.
The tense matters, since masonry doesn't mean today what it meant then.
Here's what Brook actually said -- my initial paraphrase wasn't fair, sorry
Quote from: Peter Brook in a programme note for Une Flûte Enchantée at Le Theâtre des Bouffes du Nord, Paris in August 2013
Débarrassée du symbolisme et de la panoplie habituelle de ses effets scéniques, elle brille d'une fraicheur des origines en remontant aux sources des inspirations d'un Mozart éternellement jeune, entourée de chanteurs talentueux, explorer de nouvelles couleurs et de nouvelles formes.
En abordant Mozart dans un esprit ludique, en cherchant l'osmose entre le jeu et la musique, en plaçant chanteurs et orchestre au même niveau et au plus près du publique, Peter Brook . . . consigne un « Flûte » d'exception conçue pour que chacun puisse la considérer comme sienne. Le parti pris d'un parcours buissonnier qui renouvelle sans cesse la surprise de pouvoir entrer si simplement dans la magie et la tendresse d'une œuvre éternelle
Quote from: Mandryka on August 09, 2013, 12:27:13 PM
Why?
Because Mozart's opera is an 18th century creation. A great performance will transport the audience back to Mozart's time. I find it insulting to present the opera as if today's audience can only appreciate the production if it's made "relevant" to modern sensibilities and experiences.
Quote from: Sammy on August 09, 2013, 05:55:22 PM
Because Mozart's opera is an 18th century creation. A great performance will transport the audience back to Mozart's time. I find it insulting to present the opera as if today's audience can only appreciate the production if it's made "relevant" to modern sensibilities and experiences.
As a counterpoint to Brook, there's this production which apparently tries to set it as precisely in the time of its composition as possible.
[asin]B0001Y4JOS[/asin]
(It sits in The Pile, so I can't saw how successful it is or is not). The Amazon reviews seem to be all over the place and some don't even apply to this production, since they are dated two or three years before its release! But Giordano Bruno seems to have liked it:
Quote
The previous reviewers of this performance have given ratings from 1-star "horrible" to 5-star "moving". I side with the fivers, but for different reasons. On the whole I think the musical ensemble is excellent, and the conducting superb, but what I like most about the production is the "intellectual" satisfaction I get from it. I'm a pre-postmodernist at heart. I enjoy the sense that I have fathomed the composer's intentions--neutralized my own notions long enough to evaluate the AUTHOR's coherence. This is the first production of Magic Flute that seems to me to express the "Enlightenment" themes and to project the Masonic symbolisms cogently and effectively. If the possibility of a rational Mozart doesn't attract you, I'd suggest the new M22 production as the illogical alternative.
Quote from: Sammy on August 09, 2013, 05:55:22 PM
Because Mozart's opera is an 18th century creation. A great performance will transport the audience back to Mozart's time. I find it insulting to present the opera as if today's audience can only appreciate the production if it's made "relevant" to modern sensibilities and experiences.
Magic Fute is only superficially an 18th century opera. The ideas are timeless.
Quote from: Mandryka on August 09, 2013, 10:40:32 PM
Magic Fute is only superficially an 18th century opera. The ideas are timeless.
All the more reason not to screw around with it.
Quote from: Mandryka on August 09, 2013, 10:40:32 PM
Magic Fute is only superficially an 18th century opera.
We part ways at square one. I'd call it a specifically 18th century opera. There's nothing superficial about Mozart's time of life nor the time period that the work was composed.
Quote from: Sammy on August 10, 2013, 10:00:22 AM
We part ways at square one. I'd call it a specifically 18th century opera. There's nothing superficial about Mozart's time of life nor the time period that the work was composed.
Yes I can understand your point of view about Magic Flute. I'm only half convinced by what Brook's trying to do with it. At the level of ideas, it does seem trapped in its time.
When you see Brook's production, it's very much like being involved in child like imaginative play. When an actor moves with a stick to present a snake, or when sticks held above an actor represent that he's moving underground in a tunnel. That touches something pretty basic in me. In that sense, Brook's work goes beyond the 18th century.
(http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Film/Pix/pictures/2011/3/24/1300968872893/A-Magic-Flute-007.jpg)
Quote from: Mandryka on August 11, 2013, 12:08:30 AM
Yes I can understand your point of view about Magic Flute. I'm only half convinced by what Brook's trying to do with it. At the level of ideas, it does seem trapped in its time.
When you see Brook's production, it's very much like being involved in child like imaginative play. When an actor moves with a stick to present a snake, or when sticks held above an actor represent that he's moving underground in a tunnel. That touches something pretty basic in me. In that sense, Brook's work goes beyond the 18th century.
(http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Film/Pix/pictures/2011/3/24/1300968872893/A-Magic-Flute-007.jpg)
Whether they stage the thing with some silly sticks isn't particularly important to me. You indicated that they changed the music and/or the story. When one of the great musical minds composes music to illuminate a story, why would you change it? Why change the music, or why change the story so that the story that the music illuminates is not the same?
Die Zauberflöte is an opera both of the 18
th century, and of timeless ideas.
Quote from: Mandryka on August 11, 2013, 12:08:30 AM
Yes I can understand your point of view about Magic Flute. I'm only half convinced by what Brook's trying to do with it. At the level of ideas, it does seem trapped in its time.
I agree; at the level of ideas, Brook's project is certainly trapped in its time.
He called the thing Une Flûte Enchantée, nor La . . .
At one point I noticed the piano play some music from K475. i thought the music was fine in fact, I had no problems there. The play was cut down, it lasted one and a half hours with no intermission. I thought that worked fine too. I don't much like intermissions.
What was special about the evening was the sense of interaction between the singers. You know, there was no stand and deliver stuff. And some of the gestures were very memorable too. Generally I find movement very powerful emotionally. And the auditorium of Bouffes du Nord is very special for me, it's the most magical theatre space I know. So it's always a pleasure to be there for me.
Quote from: Scarpia on August 11, 2013, 06:57:35 AM
Whether they stage the thing with some silly sticks isn't particularly important to me. You indicated that they changed the music and/or the story. When one of the great musical minds composes music to illuminate a story, why would you change it? Why change the music, or why change the story so that the story that the music illuminates is not the same?
Understood. There are some folks who have an intense interest in being creative, but interest and ability are not the same. So, these folks need to use something already produced as a springboard for their limited creative spark. As would be expected, the resulting product has a stench about it.
But hey, those sticks are a hoot - not only silly but real cheap as well.
Quote from: Sammy on August 11, 2013, 12:41:42 PM
Understood. There are some folks who have an intense interest in being creative, but interest and ability are not the same. So, these folks need to use something already produced as a springboard for their limited creative spark. As would be expected, the resulting product has a stench about it.
But hey, those sticks are a hoot - not only silly but real cheap as well.
Well I liked the production very much. And as I said I thought the music was fine.
Anyone who has done any theater--and I have--knows that things get changed all the time. There are several "original" versions of Mozart's Don Giovanni, all from Mozart's hand, and many of us who love the Academy of Ancient Music's Messiah know about the changes Handel made in it during his own lifetime. So to say that any change is somehow sacrilegious or in any other way improper is unrealistic in the world of theater.
However, I tend to agree that a major revision such as Mr. Brook's should come covered with disclaimers. :o
Quote from: jochanaan on August 12, 2013, 02:11:06 PM
. . . However, I tend to agree that a major revision such as Mr. Brook's should come covered with disclaimers. :o
I suggest;
Unsafe at any speed.
Quote from: jochanaan on August 12, 2013, 02:11:06 PM
[M]any of us who love the Academy of Ancient Music's Messiah know about the changes Handel made in it during his own lifetime. So to say that any change is somehow sacrilegious or in any other way improper is unrealistic in the world of theater.
And let's not forget the changes that that brat from Salzburg made to the score on the suggestion of some elitist Viennese librarian. They ought to have been burned!
I'd say to start with his Piano Concertos and to end with his symphonies.
Quote from: Dancing Divertimentian on July 29, 2013, 11:04:36 AM
Unfortunately Universal's remastering technique these days isn't always the "unveiling of sound" it claims and can have older recordings sounding "more spacious" but the tradeoff can be a lack of bloom and warmth (strings particularly can sound shrill). The other downside is balances have been known to be altered from the original and not always in a positive way.
I've read it many times so I believe you however I have many DG "The Originals" reissue and I find them enjoyable. (I made only one comparsion with the original LP issue: I didn't notice any difference between CD and LP with Pollini's late Beethoven piano sonatas.)
Quote from: Dancing Divertimentian on July 29, 2013, 11:04:36 AM
The other thing is is that Santa Fe Listener isn't exactly a revered Amazon "reviewer" around these parts (GMG) and I've found him at times extremely eccentric, especially in his vendetta against Radu Lupu. Apparently Santa Fe Listener spares no expense in acquiring gobs of Lupu recordings only to trash them on Amazon.
I didn't know this. I don't have preferred Amazon reviewer I've just find that.
Quote from: jochanaan on August 12, 2013, 02:11:06 PM
Anyone who has done any theater--and I have--knows that things get changed all the time. There are several "original" versions of Mozart's Don Giovanni, all from Mozart's hand, and many of us who love the Academy of Ancient Music's Messiah know about the changes Handel made in it during his own lifetime. So to say that any change is somehow sacrilegious or in any other way improper is unrealistic in the world of theater.
However, I tend to agree that a major revision such as Mr. Brook's should come covered with disclaimers. :o
I have no problems with them on this score.
The thing was described on the posters as "Opéra librement adapté par . . " And as I said they called it "une . . "not "la . . ."
The publicity also said " Une flûte. . . loin des conventions figées de l'opéra" . I'd be interested to know what you think of that. Not the "loin de " bit, since you haven't actually seen it, but the "conventions figées de l'opéra" bit.
Quote from: Roberto on August 12, 2013, 10:50:50 PM
I've read it many times so I believe you however I have many DG "The Originals" reissue and I find them enjoyable. (I made only one comparsion with the original LP issue: I didn't notice any difference between CD and LP with Pollini's late Beethoven piano sonatas.)
I've generally found DG's (Universal's) solo piano remasterings quite successful, too. In this I agree.
Quote from: Mandryka on August 13, 2013, 12:54:58 AM
I have no problems with them on this score.
The thing was described on the posters as "Opéra librement adapté par . . " And as I said they called it "une . . "not "la . . ."
The publicity also said " Une flûte. . . loin des conventions figées de l'opéra" . I'd be interested to know what you think of that. Not the "loin de " bit, since you haven't actually seen it, but the "conventions figées de l'opéra" bit.
That's not bad. At least any audience that knows French would not expect a literal rendering. 8)
Hello
I was the OP for this thread. my apologies for the delay in responding;but I've been working my way through my newly acquired catalogue.
I spent a number of hours reading all of the recommendations and following posted links before making my selection. Late one night, fuelled by a good malt whisky, I made a number of purchases - some CDs were bought for as little as £0.01.
I've already found that I am revisiting some recordings before listening to all of my purchases - which makes for slow but very enjoyable progress. I will be posting a list of purchases in due course.
In the meantime thanks to al those who responded to my require for assistance.
Regards
Waitaminuet
You're welcome. :)
Quote from: karlhenning on April 29, 2013, 04:32:19 AM
If you enjoy opera on DVD (half of the opera I consume, is via DVD, YMMV) you might consider these (very different, but both delightful) versions of Die Zauberflöte:
[asin]0780023080[/asin]
[asin]B00A50PBEA[/asin]
Holy cow, I completely missed the Branagh. Danke sehr.