Not music you love and will defend the quality of. For instance, I will argue with any foe that Johann Strauss' waltzes are very good music. But music you love despite knowing it sucks.
The amount of venom and hatred directed towards the Grand Canyon Suite suggests to me that my fondness for it is just not cool. 8)
I, too, have always had a big soft spot for the Grand Canyon Suite. Grofe's other music is nice, too, but doesn't give me as much enjoyment as his most famous work.
There's a lot of mud slung at Khachaturian's music, but I'll admit I love it. 8) The guy could write some memorable tunes, that's for sure! And please don't think less of me as a person if I say I really like John Williams' (film) music! ;)
Jean Alain is my pick. Even though he died at 28, he produced music that is special to me. If he had lived 3-4 more decades this would be considered juvenilia.Sample the music on Arion label.
As a Hovhaness fan.. where do I start?
JC Bach, not sure that he sucks but I'm not going to waste words defending liking his music to people that describe the classical era only by Haydn, Mozart and Beethoven. >:D
Quote from: DavidW on August 27, 2013, 03:33:27 AM
JC Bach, not sure that he sucks but I'm not going to waste words defending liking his music to people that describe the classical era only by Haydn, Mozart and Beethoven. >:D
Oooh! The fake cello concerto written by Henri Casadesus and attributed to JC Bach qualifies here.
I've had a passion for the Napoleonic era since I was a teen. Really enjoy studying the campaigns and battles. Perhaps as a result I love the 1812 Overture and, yes, Wellington's Victory 8)
Sarge
If you can love it, then there's nothing to admit.
You love it, i.e., the experience you have with the music is good.
The end.
I love Rachmaninoff's 4th Piano Concerto. I even enjoy it more than the third. Yet I'm always hearing how it's worse than the other three. It sounds great to me. I like its "jazzy" sound. The 2nd movement is beautiful. Still, it is quite repetitive, and if the melodies don't appeal to someone then I can easily see them dismissing the piece.
Quote from: some guy on August 27, 2013, 03:33:46 PM
If you can love it, then there's nothing to admit.
You love it, i.e., the experience you have with the music is good.
The end.
I'm with you. If I love it, the music is great
to me. Of course, there is probably some objective standard of greatness, but I haven't yet come across an adequate description or definition of that term...
Beethoven - Piano Concerto No 2 (but really it is his first one). Someone once described it to me as being 'Bad Mozart'. ;D I love this concerto, especially the Adagio.
Quote from: ChamberNut on August 27, 2013, 04:15:22 PM
Beethoven - Piano Concerto No 2 (but really it is his first one). Someone once described it to me as being 'Bad Mozart'. ;D I love this concerto, especially the Adagio.
Inferior Mozart or Beethoven is still great music. :D And yes, I love the Second, especially the Adagio. (Although I once saw a live performance with a youth orchestra in which the conductor could not conduct that movement; he had no idea how to lead a divided 3/4 measure! :o ::))
We're talking classical music here... generally, there's not much out there that isn't "good," even some of the worst of it. I have a basis for comparison pop music; too generous or not? :D
Quote from: Greg on August 27, 2013, 07:00:00 PM
We're talking classical music here... generally, there's not much out there that isn't "good," even some of the worst of it. I have a basis for comparison pop music; too generous or not? :D
One would be forced to admit that it wouldn't stay popular if there weren't some element of greatness there. Case in point: The Monkees. Yes, they were a "manufactured" group, but they could actually write and play. 8)
Quote from: jochanaan on August 27, 2013, 07:12:25 PM
One would be forced to admit that it wouldn't stay popular if there weren't some element of greatness there. Case in point: The Monkees. Yes, they were a "manufactured" group, but they could actually write and play. 8)
I wonder where Milli Vanilli factors into this? ;)
Quote from: Brian on August 26, 2013, 04:46:27 PM
Not music you love and will defend the quality of. For instance, I will argue with any foe that Johann Strauss' waltzes are very good music. But music you love despite knowing it sucks.
The amount of venom and hatred directed towards the Grand Canyon Suite suggests to me that my fondness for it is just not cool. 8)
Heck, I just purchased three lps of different pressings to compare sound and performance. Guess I am uncool.....cool. ;)
Quote from: jochanaan on August 27, 2013, 07:12:25 PM
One would be forced to admit that it wouldn't stay popular if there weren't some element of greatness there. Case in point: The Monkees. Yes, they were a "manufactured" group, but they could actually write and play. 8)
I have more in mind the type of modern pop garbage that I hear being played while I work out at the YMCA.
Quote from: Greg on August 27, 2013, 07:20:23 PM
I have more in mind the type of modern pop garbage that I hear being played while I work out at the YMCA.
Don't you just love coming away from a workout knowing that you just heard Justin Bieber's newest hit song? I know I can scarcely contain my enthusiasm. ;) :D
Neil Diamond, anyone? Complete coolness in my books.
And do not get me started on lounge, bachelor pad, space age pop. Love the stuff.
Quote from: Mirror Image on August 27, 2013, 07:22:04 PM
Don't you just love coming away from a workout knowing that you just heard Justin Bieber's newest hit song? I know I can scarcely contain my enthusiasm. ;) :D
Me, neither.
Who needs Wagner, Mahler, Prokofiev, etc. when you've got the Black Eyed Peas' "I Gotta Feeling?" That is some high, mindblowing art right there.
Quote from: Greg on August 27, 2013, 07:39:08 PM
Me, neither.
Who needs Wagner, Mahler, Prokofiev, etc. when you've got the Black Eyed Peas' "I Gotta Feeling?" That is some high, mindblowing art right there.
It really is and I think to myself each time I hear a Black Eyed Peas song "My goodness! Such pure and utter brilliance! I want to hear it again!"
I hate the Black Eyed Peas, but I do think "I Kissed a Girl" is a really fun song. And as John can attest from a previous debate on the subject, I have sincere affection for "Gangnam Style."
Quote from: Brian on August 27, 2013, 07:52:36 PM
I hate the Black Eyed Peas, but I do think "I Kissed a Girl" is a really fun song. And as John can attest from a previous debate on the subject, I have sincere affection for "Gangnam Style."
Here's a pop song that I love but probably many do not (I could be wrong):
http://www.youtube.com/v/O-6eM9UZFGU
I remember this song from
National Lampoon's European Vacation and it's kind of stuck in my memory ever since.
And then there are these two:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NOGEyBeoBGM (and never mind my high school crush :))
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=leohcvmf8kM
Quote from: Mirror Image on August 27, 2013, 07:56:48 PM
Here's a pop song that I love but probably many do not (I could be wrong):
http://www.youtube.com/v/O-6eM9UZFGU
I remember this song from National Lampoon's European Vacation and it's kind of stuck in my memory ever since.
Wrong. :) Love the drum editing. Nice call.
Quote from: Bogey on August 27, 2013, 08:07:11 PM
Wrong. :) Love the drum editing. Nice call.
That guitar solo in this song was quite impressive in addition to the infectious drumming. :)
If I like it, then it's genius. QED.
Quote from: Sergeant Rock on August 27, 2013, 01:13:13 PM
I've had a passion for the Napoleonic era since I was a teen. Really enjoy studying the campaigns and battles. Perhaps as a result I love the 1812 Overture and, yes, Wellington's Victory 8)
Sarge
You got it wrong, Sarge. Only "Wellington's Victory" is bad music;
1812 is good music but too popular, so you only need to look down on it for no good reason.
;)
What makes Wellington's Victory such bad music? I love it (for the record)!
Quote from: mc ukrneal on August 27, 2013, 10:32:09 PM
What makes Wellington's Victory such bad music?
Asking me? Well, isn't that the fashionable thing to say? :-\
Tchaikovsky's Piano Concerto #2-3. I love them, I know that they are not great works like the PC 1, but I don't care. ;D
Zappa's orchestral efforts, which are frankly spotty.
Quote from: DavidW on August 28, 2013, 04:02:38 AM
Tchaikovsky's Piano Concerto #2-3. I love them, I know that they are not great works like the PC 1, but I don't care. ;D
I think you'll find a lot of dissident GMGers who aren't keen on #1 and like #2 better. Personally I do not understand the popularity difference at all; is it because 2 is longer? I have no clue. #2 is my favorite because of the fakeout slow movement with the "wrong" soloists.
Quote from: Brian on August 28, 2013, 04:43:34 AM
I think you'll find a lot of dissident GMGers who aren't keen on #1 and like #2 better. Personally I do not understand the popularity difference at all; is it because 2 is longer? I have no clue. #2 is my favorite because of the fakeout slow movement with the "wrong" soloists.
Dissident GMGer reporting for duty! ;)
Quote from: mc ukrneal on August 27, 2013, 10:32:09 PM
What makes Wellington's Victory such bad music?
Snobbery, methinks ;D ;D ;D
Quote
I love it
Me roo.
Schumann's Violin Concerto in D minor. I love it so much!! I realize it isn't very popular, and many critics slam it, some dubbing it the "Mania Concerto".
I think it is a beautiful work. :)
Quote from: ChamberNut on August 28, 2013, 01:05:04 PM
Schumann's Violin Concerto in D minor. I love it so much!! I realize it isn't very popular, and many critics slam it, some dubbing it the "Mania Concerto".
I think it is a beautiful work. :)
Bah, it's just not well known. I love the work, and so do many others in these parts.
Quote from: some guy on August 27, 2013, 03:33:46 PM
If you can love it, then there's nothing to admit.
You love it, i.e., the experience you have with the music is good.
The end.
Didn't I once say that one day I'll buy you a pint of beer? Make it three. That's a perfect response.
This whole business reminds me of that popular parlour game,
Negative Art Criticism:
How to prove art by Artist X to be poor, in three easy steps1. State your version of the rules that define 'great art' (or, better still, imply them vaguely without defining them - which gives more room for manoeuvre).
2. Compare Artist X's art with your definition, and show it to be lacking.
3. Dismiss Artist X's art as bad.
Q.E.D.
This game of fake art criticism has masqueraded as being somehow acceptable for a long, long time. It seems really odd that no one's pulled the plug on it.
Quote from: Elgarian on August 28, 2013, 01:48:07 PMThis game of fake art criticism has masqueraded as being somehow acceptable for a long, long time. It seems really odd that no one's pulled the plug on it.
Funny! I was just now thinking almost exactly the same thing.
I guess we'll be buying each other beers!!
Quote from: Greg on August 27, 2013, 07:20:23 PM
I have more in mind the type of modern pop garbage that I hear being played while I work out at the YMCA.
My point exactly! There are levels of greatness in all musics. :)
Quote from: Mirror Image on August 27, 2013, 07:15:34 PM
I wonder where Milli Vanilli factors into this? ;)
They don't, since they produced no music. ;D
Quote from: jochanaan on August 28, 2013, 02:54:24 PM
My point exactly! There are levels of greatness in all musics. :)
I guess I need suffer no guilt, in enjoying the
Zappa orchestral music....
My most consistent criticism about Zappa's orchestral music is really a variant of what was said about Liszt and other pianist-composers: it was written for the Synclavier and thus one shouldn't be surprised if the music sounds more natural on the Synclavier than as played by an orchestra (I'd say G-Spot Tornado would be a particularly clear example).
But, as ever, YMMV.
Quote from: edward on August 28, 2013, 03:49:37 PM
My most consistent criticism about Zappa's orchestral music is really a variant of what was said about Liszt and other pianist-composers: it was written for the Synclavier and thus one shouldn't be surprised if the music sounds more natural on the Synclavier than as played by an orchestra (I'd say G-Spot Tornado would be a particularly clear example).
But, as ever, YMMV.
But you're absolutely right:
G-Spot Tornado is not an orchestral piece. I even think it an ill fit for
Ensemble Modern, really. Compositionally, I think more of
G-Spot Tornado than I do of, say,
A Short Ride in a Fast Machine; but the latter is much better writing for/use of the orchestra.
Mostly what I have in mind is pre-Synclavier work, the orchestral bits in
Lumpy Gravy,
200 Motels, and (what is already more chamber-ish, and well in his toolbox)
Revised Music for Guitar and Low-Budget Orchestra. The odd thing is, as apt as your complaint is viz. the Synclavier, the earlier work is modest in scope, often earnest in execution, and idiomatic.
I don't know if it's any good (I like it) but I really liked Goo Goo Doll's album A Boy Named Goo and this song Naked really sounded good, to my ears, whenever I first heard it (late 90s?).
http://www.youtube.com/v/yWBuvaMvdt4
Maybe I'm treading further and further off the initial topic with posting alternative rock videos but here's one with The Smashing Pumpkins that I always loved but don't really know how SP fans feel about it:
http://www.youtube.com/v/d1acEVmnVhI
I am quite fond of Ippolitov-Ivanov's Caucasian Sketches, Suite no. 1 (I don't like Suite no. 2). It's not great but it is tuneful. If performed with some style and conviction, as it is on this CD of Russian music. it's a fun piece:
[asin]B000001KAS[/asin]
Quote from: Mirror Image on August 28, 2013, 07:21:37 PM
Maybe I'm treading further and further off the initial topic with posting alternative rock videos but here's one with The Smashing Pumpkins that I always loved but don't really know how SP fans feel about it:
I love
Siamese Dream in its entirety. I will not admit that it isn't good.
Tick-Tock by Ke$ha.
Quote from: Pat B on August 28, 2013, 08:53:04 PM
I love Siamese Dream in its entirety. I will not admit that it isn't good.
Agreed and I feel the same way about
Mellon Collie and the Infinite Sadness.
Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on August 28, 2013, 03:12:59 PM
I guess I need suffer no guilt, in enjoying the Zappa orchestral music....
Remember Duke Ellington: "Only two kinds of music: good and bad." ;D
Don't know if it's good, but I love Primus anyway...
http://www.youtube.com/v/TOdo7dhvSwg
Quote from: Brian on August 26, 2013, 04:46:27 PM
Not music you love and will defend the quality of. For instance, I will argue with any foe that Johann Strauss' waltzes are very good music. But music you love despite knowing it sucks.
The amount of venom and hatred directed towards the Grand Canyon Suite suggests to me that my fondness for it is just not cool. 8)
I also like the Grand Canyon Suite.
Quote from: vandermolen on September 05, 2013, 12:53:05 PM
I also like the Grand Canyon Suite.
+ 1
I like most of the Grofe I've heard to be honest with maybe
Mississippi Suite being my favorite. I love that opening movement
Father of the Waters.