Poll
Shosty 15 could go either way. i felt it was a spiritual successor to the Zhdanovshchina peaceful resignation ending "trope" of the 2nd Piano Trio, 8th Symphony and 3rd-7th String Quartets, but the percussion is from the rather ironic end of the 2nd movement of the 4th symphony. I suppose if people prefer to interpret it as :-\ i won't mind.
When i write i use 0:) a lot of the time but achieving the elusive ??? ending is an occasional goal.
I wouldn't use any of those words. Both of those pieces are classical, and their resolutions sound that way to my ears. Aesthetically pleasing, dramatic but no emotional state applies except that felt by the audience.
Fight or struggle against (I don't know what) unto death. Definitely not resigned.
:D
For me, definitely has to be spiritually transfigured. 0:)
My favourite symphonic endings are Mahler 9 and Elgar 2.
Ambiguous would be my second choice, and I think it goes well with my first choice too. The example of Tippett you gave is one of my favourite symphonic endings too. :D As is the Shostakovich of course!
I would if I could vote for all of them, not to be a party pooper but I find all these endings appropriate, it just all depends on which one the preceding music requires.
There is not much ambiguity in the ending of Brahms 4th, I think. It's a "tragic"/"catastrophic" ending. Tovey writes something like "the hero dies fighting" which might be too explicit but it's dark and powerful without a resolution into triumph or resignation.
op.133 is triumphant for late Beethoven chamber music (that is rarely as explicit as e.g. middle Beethoven). The dense contrapuntal works give place to a joyful motive (derived from the dotted motive dominating the first, most "angular" fugue section) with rather simply accompaniment.
I like all kinds of endings. Brahms's 4th and LvB's op.133 are certainly among favorites but also the quiet transformation at the end of Brahms' 3rd or "traditional" triumphant endings (Beethoven's 5th might be a tad long, though).
Most problematic I find endings that don't seem to connect well to the proceedings before. E.g. the happy/humorous ending of LvB's op.95 feels almost "tacked on" (this being LvB it probably has a point somewhere, not simply clumsiness but still it feels far less organic than e.g. the finale of his op.132)
Sounds like the next big poll thread to me! I immediately thought of the dissonant note (which many pianists smooth over) in the opening theme of Schubert D. 960. Or no, second-to-last unison in D. 956. Or no...
Does that depend on whether you hear it as written - a sharp staccato chord - or as Bernstein plays it, prolonging the chord with a fermata?
Spoilsport.
Or the Piano Concerto, where after 3 minutes (that's how long Ligeti explicitly says the last movement should take), you get a single whip crack and it's all over.
I love too the ending to Nielsen VI, a fart on the lowest note of two solo bassoons.
Non vehicular endings. :D
(and sorry, I just realized that you are the one getting hit with said anvils, based on your avatar...)
Melodien has a very beautiful ending, I think.
Wait, I thought this was the beginning!
I would describe the beginning, middle, and end more like this:
:) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :)
...the end of all our exploring
will be to arrive where we started...
An earlier and very elegant example from Beethoven occurs in the first movement of the G major quartet, Op. 18/2. Here the first eight bars of the movement become its last eight bars as well, and Beethoven is able to do this because the phrase ends on a dominant-tonic cadence.
I think that one of the most unsettling endings in music that I've heard is the end of Ravel's Gaspard de la Nuit. The whole 3rd movement "Scarbo" consists of a creepy gargoyle hiding in the shadows, occasionally illuminated by flashes of lightning, and occasionally jumping out at you (only to retreat back to the shadows). The unresolved ending is a huge unanswered question because it is like he goes back and hides -- but you don't know when he is coming back! Far more unsettling than if Ravel had just ended it with a "bang" (which would be expected for such a showpiece). It is like Edgar Allen Poe in music form.
Question: i hope this works
Option 1: 
votes: 2
votes: 2
Option 2: 
votes: 4
votes: 4
Option 3: 
votes: 9
votes: 9
Option 4: 
votes: 0
votes: 0
Option 5: 0:)
votes: 5
Option 6: 
votes: 4
votes: 4
Option 7: 
votes: 0
votes: 0
Option 8: 
votes: 5
votes: 5
Option 9: 
votes: 3
votes: 3
Title: Favourite Kind of Ending
Post by: dyn on September 05, 2013, 05:32:28 PM
Post by: dyn on September 05, 2013, 05:32:28 PM
Inspired by another post.
:) - Happy
Pretty straightforward. The music builds to a glorious climax and concludes in a paroxysm of clangorous chords. A "warm fuzzies" sort of ending that leaves you feeling spiritually uplifted. Examples include Brahms's First, Beethoven's Op. 110 and Messiaen's Turangalîla-Symphonie.
;D - Humorous
A conclusion that's not a glorious triumph over adversity but rather light-hearted and fun. Not usually as loud as a :) ending, and may even be quiet, but nonetheless puts a smile on your face. Examples include Beethoven's Op. 135 and 18 no. 3, and Shostakovich's Ninth.
:( - Sad
Again, pretty straightforward. The music sinks down and expires on a gloomy note of resignation, probably in a minor key, if it is in a key at all. One is left pensive and disinclined to break the spell with applause. Examples include Tchaikovsky's Sixth, Mahler's Ninth and quite a lot of Shostakovich.
>:( - Angry
The piece goes out in a towering rage against the heavens, refusing to go gentle into that good night. This kind of ending sometimes undercuts itself to become sad, like in Mahler's Sixth, but more commonly ends with a bang like Beethoven's Appassionata, Brahms's Tragic Overture or Lutoslawski's Fourth.
0:) - Spiritually Transfigured
Like a clear-eyed version of the sad ending—indeed the music sometimes seems like it's about to end sadly but gains a cool, objective distance at the last minute, like a halo. Shostakovich's Fifteenth is a good example, likewise Brahms's Third. Others never came close to ending sadly in the first place, e.g. Vaughan Williams's Third.
:-\ - Ambiguous
The ending sends rather mixed messages, with commentators often finding multiple conflicting interpretations. These kinds of endings vary widely in character, from Tippett's First to Shostakovich's Fifth to Prokofiev's Sixth.
::) - Sarcastic
An ambiguous ending with less ambiguity. The end is overtly mocking or undercut in character. Sometimes this is achieved through tacking on a "happy" ending where none was needed or wanted (e.g. Wagner's Tristan und Isolde Act I finale), other times through more "naturalistic" means (e.g. Nielsen's Sixth, Mozart's A Musical Joke).
??? - What The Hell?
Seriously? WTF did i just listen to? Was that really the ending? Examples (though this is always subjective) include a lot of Kagel (Unguis incarnatus est came to mind), Ligeti's Chamber Concerto, Schnittke's First and so forth.
:blank: - No Ending
For whatever reason, instead of reaching a definitive conclusion, the music just
:) - Happy
Pretty straightforward. The music builds to a glorious climax and concludes in a paroxysm of clangorous chords. A "warm fuzzies" sort of ending that leaves you feeling spiritually uplifted. Examples include Brahms's First, Beethoven's Op. 110 and Messiaen's Turangalîla-Symphonie.
;D - Humorous
A conclusion that's not a glorious triumph over adversity but rather light-hearted and fun. Not usually as loud as a :) ending, and may even be quiet, but nonetheless puts a smile on your face. Examples include Beethoven's Op. 135 and 18 no. 3, and Shostakovich's Ninth.
:( - Sad
Again, pretty straightforward. The music sinks down and expires on a gloomy note of resignation, probably in a minor key, if it is in a key at all. One is left pensive and disinclined to break the spell with applause. Examples include Tchaikovsky's Sixth, Mahler's Ninth and quite a lot of Shostakovich.
>:( - Angry
The piece goes out in a towering rage against the heavens, refusing to go gentle into that good night. This kind of ending sometimes undercuts itself to become sad, like in Mahler's Sixth, but more commonly ends with a bang like Beethoven's Appassionata, Brahms's Tragic Overture or Lutoslawski's Fourth.
0:) - Spiritually Transfigured
Like a clear-eyed version of the sad ending—indeed the music sometimes seems like it's about to end sadly but gains a cool, objective distance at the last minute, like a halo. Shostakovich's Fifteenth is a good example, likewise Brahms's Third. Others never came close to ending sadly in the first place, e.g. Vaughan Williams's Third.
:-\ - Ambiguous
The ending sends rather mixed messages, with commentators often finding multiple conflicting interpretations. These kinds of endings vary widely in character, from Tippett's First to Shostakovich's Fifth to Prokofiev's Sixth.
::) - Sarcastic
An ambiguous ending with less ambiguity. The end is overtly mocking or undercut in character. Sometimes this is achieved through tacking on a "happy" ending where none was needed or wanted (e.g. Wagner's Tristan und Isolde Act I finale), other times through more "naturalistic" means (e.g. Nielsen's Sixth, Mozart's A Musical Joke).
??? - What The Hell?
Seriously? WTF did i just listen to? Was that really the ending? Examples (though this is always subjective) include a lot of Kagel (Unguis incarnatus est came to mind), Ligeti's Chamber Concerto, Schnittke's First and so forth.
:blank: - No Ending
For whatever reason, instead of reaching a definitive conclusion, the music just
Title: Re: Favourite Kind of Ending
Post by: ibanezmonster on September 05, 2013, 05:41:13 PM
Post by: ibanezmonster on September 05, 2013, 05:41:13 PM
Interesting. Sad and ambiguous are my two favorites. In fact, those are the types of endings I have aimed for quite a bit when writing my music.
I feel like Shostakovich's 15th is another ambiguous one. It's a fine like between Ambiguous and WTH, at least.
Another good example for spiritually transfigured could be Mahler's 2nd...
if given a third option, I'd choose Angry; what I have in mind is the ending to the Schoenberg Variations for Orchestra or Varese's Ameriques. So metal.
(maybe I should have chosen Angry instead of ambiguous, oh well...)
oh, and I'm wondering if some of Xenakis' music that just cuts off would be considered no ending or
I feel like Shostakovich's 15th is another ambiguous one. It's a fine like between Ambiguous and WTH, at least.
Another good example for spiritually transfigured could be Mahler's 2nd...
if given a third option, I'd choose Angry; what I have in mind is the ending to the Schoenberg Variations for Orchestra or Varese's Ameriques. So metal.
(maybe I should have chosen Angry instead of ambiguous, oh well...)
oh, and I'm wondering if some of Xenakis' music that just cuts off would be considered no ending or
Title: Re: Favourite Kind of Ending
Post by: Mirror Image on September 05, 2013, 06:20:03 PM
Post by: Mirror Image on September 05, 2013, 06:20:03 PM
I'm with Greg in that I like sad or ambiguous endings, but I realize this is quite limiting. I think the music should end the way the composer meant for it to end whether it ends resolved or not.
Title: Re: Favourite Kind of Ending
Post by: dyn on September 05, 2013, 06:28:56 PM
Post by: dyn on September 05, 2013, 06:28:56 PM
Quote from: Greg on September 05, 2013, 05:41:13 PM
Interesting. Sad and ambiguous are my two favorites. In fact, those are the types of endings I have aimed for quite a bit when writing my music.
I feel like Shostakovich's 15th is another ambiguous one. It's a fine like between Ambiguous and WTH, at least.
Shosty 15 could go either way. i felt it was a spiritual successor to the Zhdanovshchina peaceful resignation ending "trope" of the 2nd Piano Trio, 8th Symphony and 3rd-7th String Quartets, but the percussion is from the rather ironic end of the 2nd movement of the 4th symphony. I suppose if people prefer to interpret it as :-\ i won't mind.
When i write i use 0:) a lot of the time but achieving the elusive ??? ending is an occasional goal.
Quotei actually don't know that piece >.>
Another good example for spiritually transfigured could be Mahler's 2nd...
QuoteA lot of Xenakis's music just :blank: s, probably because of the way he constructed his music, but often he's building towards a specific texture or otherwise creates a sense of finality it's hard to quantify in emotional terms. I suppose ambiguity comes closest.
oh, and I'm wondering if some of Xenakis' music that just cuts off would be considered no ending or
Title: Re: Favourite Kind of Ending
Post by: ibanezmonster on September 05, 2013, 06:44:01 PM
Post by: ibanezmonster on September 05, 2013, 06:44:01 PM
Quote from: dyn on September 05, 2013, 06:28:56 PMOh boy, lucky you. It's my second favorite Mahler symphony after the 9th, so I'd say have fun getting to know it.
i actually don't know that piece >.>
Quote from: dyn on September 05, 2013, 06:28:56 PMYeah, I think you're right about it being the way he constructs his music. He usually composes in blocks, and I think once the final block is over, it's over.
A lot of Xenakis's music just :blank: s, probably because of the way he constructed his music, but often he's building towards a specific texture or otherwise creates a sense of finality it's hard to quantify in emotional terms. I suppose ambiguity comes closest.
Title: Re: Favourite Kind of Ending
Post by: Brian on September 05, 2013, 07:56:19 PM
Post by: Brian on September 05, 2013, 07:56:19 PM
Quote from: dyn on September 05, 2013, 05:32:28 PMI will say that I love the convergency of these two ideas, Humorous and What The Hell, in the finale of Charles Ives' Symphony No. 2!
;D - Humorous
A conclusion that's not a glorious triumph over adversity but rather light-hearted and fun. Not usually as loud as a :) ending, and may even be quiet, but nonetheless puts a smile on your face. Examples include Beethoven's Op. 135 and 18 no. 3, and Shostakovich's Ninth.
??? - What The Hell?
Seriously? WTF did i just listen to? Was that really the ending? Examples (though this is always subjective) include a lot of Kagel (Unguis incarnatus est came to mind), Ligeti's Chamber Concerto, Schnittke's First and so forth.
Title: Re: Favourite Kind of Ending
Post by: Sef on September 06, 2013, 08:13:34 AM
Post by: Sef on September 06, 2013, 08:13:34 AM
Quote from: Mirror Image on September 05, 2013, 06:20:03 PMYes, but what the composer meant the ending to feel like can be very different from what the listener feels. It's often been said that Pettersson 7 for instance ends with peace and tranquility after the storm (Spiritually Transfigured?), but I hear the last breaths of life. Same thing in a Bruckner 9 or Shostakovich 4 for that matter. Perhaps I'm just morbid that way.
I'm with Greg in that I like sad or ambiguous endings, but I realize this is quite limiting. I think the music should end the way the composer meant for it to end whether it ends resolved or not.
Quote from: Greg on September 05, 2013, 05:41:13 PMHard to be anything but Spiritually uplifted by this, even as an atheist! ;D, but I find that this is an example that is an exception to the rule that I prefer endings that peter out. Weinberg 5 is another good example, akin to the Shostakovich 4.
Another good example for spiritually transfigured could be Mahler's 2nd...
Title: Re: Favourite Kind of Ending
Post by: NorthNYMark on September 06, 2013, 09:44:44 AM
Post by: NorthNYMark on September 06, 2013, 09:44:44 AM
How would most people characterize the ending to Brahms's Fourth Symphony, or Beethoven's Grosse Fugue? I'm imagining it's either angry or ambiguous, but am curious as to what others may think. I guess I think of them as tense, which I see as different from "angry," and therefore lean toward "ambiguous."
Title: Re: Favourite Kind of Ending
Post by: DavidW on September 06, 2013, 11:03:25 AM
Post by: DavidW on September 06, 2013, 11:03:25 AM
Quote from: NorthNYMark on September 06, 2013, 09:44:44 AM
How would most people characterize the ending to Brahms's Fourth Symphony, or Beethoven's Grosse Fugue? I'm imagining it's either angry or ambiguous, but am curious as to what others may think. I guess I think of them as tense, which I see as different from "angry," and therefore lean toward "ambiguous."
I wouldn't use any of those words. Both of those pieces are classical, and their resolutions sound that way to my ears. Aesthetically pleasing, dramatic but no emotional state applies except that felt by the audience.
Title: Re: Favourite Kind of Ending
Post by: Brian on September 06, 2013, 11:12:10 AM
Post by: Brian on September 06, 2013, 11:12:10 AM
Quote from: NorthNYMark on September 06, 2013, 09:44:44 AMtragic? unhappily resigned?
How would most people characterize the ending to Brahms's Fourth Symphony,
Title: Re: Favourite Kind of Ending
Post by: Opus106 on September 06, 2013, 11:35:55 AM
Post by: Opus106 on September 06, 2013, 11:35:55 AM
Quote from: Brian on September 06, 2013, 11:12:10 AM
tragic? unhappily resigned?
Fight or struggle against (I don't know what) unto death. Definitely not resigned.
Title: Re: Favourite Kind of Ending
Post by: Rinaldo on September 06, 2013, 12:18:55 PM
Post by: Rinaldo on September 06, 2013, 12:18:55 PM
I like a healthy combination of :( / 0:) and :blank:, e.g. Tabula Rasa.
Title: Re: Favourite Kind of Ending
Post by: TheGSMoeller on September 06, 2013, 01:12:46 PM
Post by: TheGSMoeller on September 06, 2013, 01:12:46 PM
I'm always up for a good Philip Glass ending...
:) >:( :) >:( :) >:( :) >:( :( :) :D :) :( :) >:( :) >:( :) >:( :) >:( :( :) :D :) :( >:( :)
:) >:( :) >:( :) >:( :) >:( :( :) :D :) :( :) >:( :) >:( :) >:( :) >:( :( :) :D :) :( >:( :)
Title: Re: Favourite Kind of Ending
Post by: Brian on September 06, 2013, 01:26:01 PM
Post by: Brian on September 06, 2013, 01:26:01 PM
Quote from: TheGSMoeller on September 06, 2013, 01:12:46 PMI laughed!
I'm always up for a good Philip Glass ending...
:) >:( :) >:( :) >:( :) >:( :( :) :D :) :( :) >:( :) >:( :) >:( :) >:( :( :) :D :) :( >:( :)
Title: Re: Favourite Kind of Ending
Post by: madaboutmahler on September 07, 2013, 01:23:32 PM
Post by: madaboutmahler on September 07, 2013, 01:23:32 PM
Quote from: TheGSMoeller on September 06, 2013, 01:12:46 PM
I'm always up for a good Philip Glass ending...
:) >:( :) >:( :) >:( :) >:( :( :) :D :) :( :) >:( :) >:( :) >:( :) >:( :( :) :D :) :( >:( :)
:D
For me, definitely has to be spiritually transfigured. 0:)
My favourite symphonic endings are Mahler 9 and Elgar 2.
Ambiguous would be my second choice, and I think it goes well with my first choice too. The example of Tippett you gave is one of my favourite symphonic endings too. :D As is the Shostakovich of course!
Title: Re: Favourite Kind of Ending
Post by: Dax on September 15, 2013, 07:17:57 AM
Post by: Dax on September 15, 2013, 07:17:57 AM
The last couple of options need amplification e.g., LATERAL endings. QUESTION-MARK endings.
People don't always finish conversations by shaking hands and bidding each other goodnight.
Composers don't always want people to be made comfortable by the way things have gone.
I will Modulate in the last bar: why? Compare - Scriabin Prometheus: Busoni - Carmen Fantasy, Turandots Frauengemach: various Duke Ellington tracks.
I just ran out of manuscript paper - Pijper piano concerto
I'm just going to string you along and have a laff - Korngold left hand piano concerto
I'm not allowing a proper end - Alkan Fa
etc
People don't always finish conversations by shaking hands and bidding each other goodnight.
Composers don't always want people to be made comfortable by the way things have gone.
I will Modulate in the last bar: why? Compare - Scriabin Prometheus: Busoni - Carmen Fantasy, Turandots Frauengemach: various Duke Ellington tracks.
I just ran out of manuscript paper - Pijper piano concerto
I'm just going to string you along and have a laff - Korngold left hand piano concerto
I'm not allowing a proper end - Alkan Fa
etc
Title: Re: Favourite Kind of Ending
Post by: ibanezmonster on September 15, 2013, 10:46:23 AM
Post by: ibanezmonster on September 15, 2013, 10:46:23 AM
I wish there were more voters in this poll.
Title: Re: Favourite Kind of Ending
Post by: TheGSMoeller on September 15, 2013, 10:55:06 AM
Post by: TheGSMoeller on September 15, 2013, 10:55:06 AM
Quote from: Greg on September 15, 2013, 10:46:23 AM
I wish there were more voters in this poll.
I would if I could vote for all of them, not to be a party pooper but I find all these endings appropriate, it just all depends on which one the preceding music requires.
Title: Re: Favourite Kind of Ending
Post by: vandermolen on February 21, 2016, 01:38:02 PM
Post by: vandermolen on February 21, 2016, 01:38:02 PM
Ok, rather than start another thread.
8 favourite endings to symphonies.
My choices:
Mahler Symphony 1 - I love the two emphatic notes at the end - Bernard Herrmann employs much the same thing at the end of his Symphony.
Shostakovich Symphony 4 - ends in the deepest gloom - I might have chosen his symphonies 10 (defiant assertion of the individual in the face of tyranny) or No.11 - just very exciting or No. 15 - heartbreaking and poignant.
Vaughan Williams: Symphony 6 - drifts around before ending on the 'wrong' chord - the up note which leaves a nihilistic sense of the unresolved - absolutely right for this symphony. It has been described as an 'amen' that goes nowhere. I could have chosen No.9 for the defiance in the face of death - that's how I read it anyway.
Tchaikovsky Symphony 6 'Pathetique' first symphony to end on the slow movement, ends in glowering darkness in the best performances.
I have chosen 8 but it is not the end of the world (as in several of the symphonies I mentioned) ( :P) if you choose up to 10.
8 favourite endings to symphonies.
My choices:
Mahler Symphony 1 - I love the two emphatic notes at the end - Bernard Herrmann employs much the same thing at the end of his Symphony.
Shostakovich Symphony 4 - ends in the deepest gloom - I might have chosen his symphonies 10 (defiant assertion of the individual in the face of tyranny) or No.11 - just very exciting or No. 15 - heartbreaking and poignant.
Vaughan Williams: Symphony 6 - drifts around before ending on the 'wrong' chord - the up note which leaves a nihilistic sense of the unresolved - absolutely right for this symphony. It has been described as an 'amen' that goes nowhere. I could have chosen No.9 for the defiance in the face of death - that's how I read it anyway.
Tchaikovsky Symphony 6 'Pathetique' first symphony to end on the slow movement, ends in glowering darkness in the best performances.
I have chosen 8 but it is not the end of the world (as in several of the symphonies I mentioned) ( :P) if you choose up to 10.
Title: Re: Favourite Kind of Ending
Post by: Jo498 on February 21, 2016, 11:57:24 PM
Post by: Jo498 on February 21, 2016, 11:57:24 PM
Quote from: NorthNYMark on September 06, 2013, 09:44:44 AM
How would most people characterize the ending to Brahms's Fourth Symphony, or Beethoven's Grosse Fugue? I'm imagining it's either angry or ambiguous, but am curious as to what others may think. I guess I think of them as tense, which I see as different from "angry," and therefore lean toward "ambiguous."
There is not much ambiguity in the ending of Brahms 4th, I think. It's a "tragic"/"catastrophic" ending. Tovey writes something like "the hero dies fighting" which might be too explicit but it's dark and powerful without a resolution into triumph or resignation.
op.133 is triumphant for late Beethoven chamber music (that is rarely as explicit as e.g. middle Beethoven). The dense contrapuntal works give place to a joyful motive (derived from the dotted motive dominating the first, most "angular" fugue section) with rather simply accompaniment.
I like all kinds of endings. Brahms's 4th and LvB's op.133 are certainly among favorites but also the quiet transformation at the end of Brahms' 3rd or "traditional" triumphant endings (Beethoven's 5th might be a tad long, though).
Most problematic I find endings that don't seem to connect well to the proceedings before. E.g. the happy/humorous ending of LvB's op.95 feels almost "tacked on" (this being LvB it probably has a point somewhere, not simply clumsiness but still it feels far less organic than e.g. the finale of his op.132)
Title: Re: Favourite Kind of Ending
Post by: Maestro267 on February 22, 2016, 12:04:49 AM
Post by: Maestro267 on February 22, 2016, 12:04:49 AM
I love the peaceful and content ending of Elgar 2, but I also love the huge organ-enhanced endings such as Mahler 2 & 8.
Title: Re: Favourite Kind of Ending
Post by: some guy on February 22, 2016, 11:18:56 AM
Post by: some guy on February 22, 2016, 11:18:56 AM
None of the terms used are musical terms.
Angry, sad, happy and so forth are all responses, so are at least one step removed from the music itself, are interpretations of possible emotional responses, responses that will not be the same for every listener.
Angry, sad, happy and so forth are all responses, so are at least one step removed from the music itself, are interpretations of possible emotional responses, responses that will not be the same for every listener.
Title: Re: Favourite Kind of Ending
Post by: ComposerOfAvantGarde on February 22, 2016, 10:04:17 PM
Post by: ComposerOfAvantGarde on February 22, 2016, 10:04:17 PM
I like a piece to end with a repetitive melody that just keeps growing in texture or dynamic or something like that before a coda which may either be very loud or very soft and draws upon the main melodic motif of the work or movement.
Title: Re: Favourite Kind of Ending
Post by: some guy on February 22, 2016, 11:26:26 PM
Post by: some guy on February 22, 2016, 11:26:26 PM
;D
Title: Re: Favourite Kind of Ending
Post by: amw on February 23, 2016, 02:21:57 AM
Post by: amw on February 23, 2016, 02:21:57 AM
I forgot I made this thread, hmm. Fave endings include: Tippett 1 & 2 (especially 1) both of which end with a repeated "call to dispersal". Beethoven 130/133 which doesn't have any particular emotional quality (I suppose "triumphal") more salient than its perfect inevitability. Brahms 3. Shostakovich 15, with the most perfect single note in the musical literature. (Ok, it's an octave unison, not a "single note" blah blah) Shostakovich Cello Concerto No. 2 as well with that long-held solo note, and on a similar but different (ha) note, Britten Violin Concerto. Traditional triumphant ending that always seems to raise chills is Bruckner 8, with its surprise leap onto an F major chord where the music almost founders before making the almost-unmakeable step to reach the very (!) final 23 bars of C major triads. ("A tad long" compared to the 58 [or whatever] bars of pure C major of Beethoven 5 because the tempo is "Nicht schnell" rather than "Prestissimo".) The absolute repudiation of the "sublime" in Beethoven's Op. 109 and, especially, 111. The Wild Hunt riding off into the distance of Schumann's Kreisleriana. Prokofiev 6, where the carnival masks come off to reveal demons, and they eat everyone in E-flat major. And, of course, Nielsen 6. And quite a lot of Ligeti, who had a special talent for them. (Chamber Concerto is one of the best) The lamp going out in Bartók's Miraculous Mandarin.
(Ok, there are a lot! I could go on at greater length, stopping here just to demonstrate.... For favourite kinds of endings I still defer to the OP)
As far as tacked-on happy endings go, the most incongruous one for me is the ending of Mozart's K466. (And there's the one in Beethoven's Egmont Overture though at least that is because of the story of the play.) I might have appreciated a stern, dramatic G minor finale to the K516 quintet as well, but the feathery pre-Mendelssohn fairy music works well as a sort of inner emigration, if one doesn't attempt too much force. Tacked-on sad endings like Shostakovich 4 for some reason work much better (that one in particular since it follows an attempt at a tacked-on happy ending), not to forget the really tacked-on "tag" of Mahler 6—the music is strictly over, but Mahler's not going to let it die with dignity and humanity and finishes it off with a fate-motive to the head.
(Ok, there are a lot! I could go on at greater length, stopping here just to demonstrate.... For favourite kinds of endings I still defer to the OP)
As far as tacked-on happy endings go, the most incongruous one for me is the ending of Mozart's K466. (And there's the one in Beethoven's Egmont Overture though at least that is because of the story of the play.) I might have appreciated a stern, dramatic G minor finale to the K516 quintet as well, but the feathery pre-Mendelssohn fairy music works well as a sort of inner emigration, if one doesn't attempt too much force. Tacked-on sad endings like Shostakovich 4 for some reason work much better (that one in particular since it follows an attempt at a tacked-on happy ending), not to forget the really tacked-on "tag" of Mahler 6—the music is strictly over, but Mahler's not going to let it die with dignity and humanity and finishes it off with a fate-motive to the head.
Title: Re: Favourite Kind of Ending
Post by: EigenUser on February 23, 2016, 02:29:48 AM
Post by: EigenUser on February 23, 2016, 02:29:48 AM
Quote from: amw on February 23, 2016, 02:21:57 AMI love Ligeti's WTF endings. The Violin Concerto is another good example. You expect a nice, big recapitulation after the cadenza, but instead when the orchestra re-enters it just sort of fizzles out. My friend said that the orchestra's re-entrance sounds like a cartoon soundtrack (like a bunch of anvils falling on Daffy Duck).
And quite a lot of Ligeti, who had a special talent for them. (Chamber Concerto is one of the best) For favourite kinds of endings I still defer to the OP
Title: Re: Favourite Kind of Ending
Post by: Brian on February 23, 2016, 09:21:19 AM
Post by: Brian on February 23, 2016, 09:21:19 AM
Quote from: amw on February 23, 2016, 02:21:57 AMShostakovich 15, with the most perfect single note in the musical literature. (Ok, it's an octave unison, not a "single note" blah blah)
Sounds like the next big poll thread to me! I immediately thought of the dissonant note (which many pianists smooth over) in the opening theme of Schubert D. 960. Or no, second-to-last unison in D. 956. Or no...
Quote from: amw on February 23, 2016, 02:21:57 AMProkofiev 6, where the carnival masks come off to reveal demons, and they eat everyone in E-flat major.post of the year
Quote from: EigenUser on February 23, 2016, 02:29:48 AMNew rule: everybody posting here has to one-up amw and Nate's awesome analogies!
I love Ligeti's WTF endings. The Violin Concerto is another good example. You expect a nice, big recapitulation after the cadenza, but instead when the orchestra re-enters it just sort of fizzles out. My friend said that the orchestra's re-entrance sounds like a cartoon soundtrack (like a bunch of anvils falling on Daffy Duck).
Title: Re: Favourite Kind of Ending
Post by: (poco) Sforzando on February 23, 2016, 09:47:57 AM
Post by: (poco) Sforzando on February 23, 2016, 09:47:57 AM
Quote from: Brian on September 05, 2013, 07:56:19 PM
I will say that I love the convergency of these two ideas, Humorous and What The Hell, in the finale of Charles Ives' Symphony No. 2!
Does that depend on whether you hear it as written - a sharp staccato chord - or as Bernstein plays it, prolonging the chord with a fermata?
Title: Re: Favourite Kind of Ending
Post by: (poco) Sforzando on February 23, 2016, 09:49:16 AM
Post by: (poco) Sforzando on February 23, 2016, 09:49:16 AM
Quote from: some guy on February 22, 2016, 11:18:56 AM
None of the terms used are musical terms.
Angry, sad, happy and so forth are all responses, so are at least one step removed from the music itself, are interpretations of possible emotional responses, responses that will not be the same for every listener.
Spoilsport.
Title: Re: Favourite Kind of Ending
Post by: (poco) Sforzando on February 23, 2016, 09:51:24 AM
Post by: (poco) Sforzando on February 23, 2016, 09:51:24 AM
Quote from: EigenUser on February 23, 2016, 02:29:48 AM
I love Ligeti's WTF endings. The Violin Concerto is another good example. You expect a nice, big recapitulation after the cadenza, but instead when the orchestra re-enters it just sort of fizzles out. My friend said that the orchestra's re-entrance sounds like a cartoon soundtrack (like a bunch of anvils falling on Daffy Duck).
Or the Piano Concerto, where after 3 minutes (that's how long Ligeti explicitly says the last movement should take), you get a single whip crack and it's all over.
I love too the ending to Nielsen VI, a fart on the lowest note of two solo bassoons.
Title: Re: Favourite Kind of Ending
Post by: Brahmsian on February 23, 2016, 09:54:18 AM
Post by: Brahmsian on February 23, 2016, 09:54:18 AM
Quote from: some guy on February 22, 2016, 11:18:56 AM
None of the terms used are musical terms.
Angry, sad, happy and so forth are all responses, so are at least one step removed from the music itself, are interpretations of possible emotional responses, responses that will not be the same for every listener.
Non vehicular endings. :D
Title: Re: Favourite Kind of Ending
Post by: mc ukrneal on February 23, 2016, 10:21:43 AM
Post by: mc ukrneal on February 23, 2016, 10:21:43 AM
My favorites are...hmmm...the ones that come at the end. :)
Title: Re: Favourite Kind of Ending
Post by: (poco) Sforzando on February 23, 2016, 10:30:02 AM
Post by: (poco) Sforzando on February 23, 2016, 10:30:02 AM
"Begin at the beginning," the King said gravely, "and go on till you come to the end: then stop."
- Alice in Wonderland
- Alice in Wonderland
Title: Re: Favourite Kind of Ending
Post by: Brian on February 23, 2016, 10:50:14 AM
Post by: Brian on February 23, 2016, 10:50:14 AM
Quote from: (poco) Sforzando on February 23, 2016, 09:47:57 AMMuch, much prefer the former to the latter.
Does that depend on whether you hear it as written - a sharp staccato chord - or as Bernstein plays it, prolonging the chord with a fermata?
Title: Re: Favourite Kind of Ending
Post by: EigenUser on February 23, 2016, 11:18:02 AM
Post by: EigenUser on February 23, 2016, 11:18:02 AM
Quote from: Brian on February 23, 2016, 09:21:19 AMThat one was from a friend of mine. :(
New rule: everybody posting here has to one-up amw and Nate's awesome analogies!
(and sorry, I just realized that you are the one getting hit with said anvils, based on your avatar...)
Quote from: (poco) Sforzando on February 23, 2016, 09:51:24 AMThat's a really good one, too. Even more dramatic is the ending of San Francisco Polyphony.
Or the Piano Concerto, where after 3 minutes (that's how long Ligeti explicitly says the last movement should take), you get a single whip crack and it's all over.
Title: Re: Favourite Kind of Ending
Post by: Brian on February 23, 2016, 11:22:38 AM
Post by: Brian on February 23, 2016, 11:22:38 AM
Quote from: EigenUser on February 23, 2016, 11:18:02 AMIndethpthtpicable!
That one was from a friend of mine. :(
(and sorry, I just realized that you are the one getting hit with said anvils, based on your avatar...)
Title: Re: Favourite Kind of Ending
Post by: amw on February 23, 2016, 11:19:25 PM
Post by: amw on February 23, 2016, 11:19:25 PM
Quote from: EigenUser on February 23, 2016, 11:18:02 AMAnd on the other hand are the endings of unexpected and extreme tenderness and love such as the Horn Trio, String Quartet No. 2 & the Etudes (taking them as a single work—the end of No. 18 is a fitting conclusion)
That's a really good one, too. Even more dramatic is the ending of San Francisco Polyphony.
Quote from: mc ukrneal on February 23, 2016, 10:21:43 AMNo love for Haydn's 90th, I guess :(
My favorites are...hmmm...the ones that come at the end. :)
Title: Re: Favourite Kind of Ending
Post by: EigenUser on February 24, 2016, 12:16:44 AM
Post by: EigenUser on February 24, 2016, 12:16:44 AM
Quote from: Brian on February 23, 2016, 11:22:38 AMI might have said this already, but your stern Daffy Duck avatar really does add a lot of authority to your posts.
Indethpthtpicable!
Quote from: amw on February 23, 2016, 11:19:25 PMHa! The ending of Ligeti's 2nd SQ sounds like the players just evaporate from the stage.
And on the other hand are the endings of unexpected and extreme tenderness and love such as the Horn Trio, String Quartet No. 2 & the Etudes (taking them as a single work—the end of No. 18 is a fitting conclusion)
Melodien has a very beautiful ending, I think.
Title: Re: Favourite Kind of Ending
Post by: springrite on February 24, 2016, 12:49:46 AM
Post by: springrite on February 24, 2016, 12:49:46 AM
Quote from: TheGSMoeller on September 06, 2013, 01:12:46 PM
I'm always up for a good Philip Glass ending...
:) >:( :) >:( :) >:( :) >:( :( :) :D :) :( :) >:( :) >:( :) >:( :) >:( :( :) :D :) :( >:( :)
Wait, I thought this was the beginning!
Title: Re: Favourite Kind of Ending
Post by: vandermolen on February 24, 2016, 01:15:59 AM
Post by: vandermolen on February 24, 2016, 01:15:59 AM
Quote from: springrite on February 24, 2016, 12:49:46 AM:) :) :) :)
Wait, I thought this was the beginning!
Title: Re: Favourite Kind of Ending
Post by: (poco) Sforzando on February 24, 2016, 03:21:25 AM
Post by: (poco) Sforzando on February 24, 2016, 03:21:25 AM
Quote from: springrite on February 24, 2016, 12:49:46 AM
Wait, I thought this was the beginning!
I would describe the beginning, middle, and end more like this:
:) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :)
Title: Re: Favourite Kind of Ending
Post by: Brian on February 24, 2016, 04:34:11 AM
Post by: Brian on February 24, 2016, 04:34:11 AM
How 'bout beginnings that are endings in disguise? Beethoven Symphony 8 first movement, or Janacek's Sinfonietta.
Title: Re: Favourite Kind of Ending
Post by: Karl Henning on February 24, 2016, 05:22:46 AM
Post by: Karl Henning on February 24, 2016, 05:22:46 AM
Ma fin est mon commencement.
Title: Re: Favourite Kind of Ending
Post by: vandermolen on February 24, 2016, 12:42:39 PM
Post by: vandermolen on February 24, 2016, 12:42:39 PM
Quote from: karlhenning on February 24, 2016, 05:22:46 AM:)
Ma fin est mon commencement.
Title: Re: Favourite Kind of Ending
Post by: Sergeant Rock on February 24, 2016, 01:02:04 PM
Post by: Sergeant Rock on February 24, 2016, 01:02:04 PM
Quote from: Brian on February 24, 2016, 04:34:11 AM
How 'bout beginnings that are endings in disguise? Beethoven Symphony 8 first movement, or Janacek's Sinfonietta.
Quote from: karlhenning on February 24, 2016, 05:22:46 AM
Ma fin est mon commencement.
...the end of all our exploring
will be to arrive where we started...
Title: Re: Favourite Kind of Ending
Post by: (poco) Sforzando on February 24, 2016, 06:43:43 PM
Post by: (poco) Sforzando on February 24, 2016, 06:43:43 PM
Quote from: Brian on February 24, 2016, 04:34:11 AM
How 'bout beginnings that are endings in disguise? Beethoven Symphony 8 first movement, or Janacek's Sinfonietta.
An earlier and very elegant example from Beethoven occurs in the first movement of the G major quartet, Op. 18/2. Here the first eight bars of the movement become its last eight bars as well, and Beethoven is able to do this because the phrase ends on a dominant-tonic cadence.
Title: Re: Favourite Kind of Ending
Post by: Jo498 on February 24, 2016, 11:35:41 PM
Post by: Jo498 on February 24, 2016, 11:35:41 PM
Haydn does that several times. E.g. in the G major (5?) in op.33. The first phrase of the first movement is an "ending". op.50/6, 1st mvmt is similar.
And I love the quiet "simple" ending of LvB 8th, 1st mvmt.
And I love the quiet "simple" ending of LvB 8th, 1st mvmt.
Title: Re: Favourite Kind of Ending
Post by: EigenUser on February 25, 2016, 01:46:00 AM
Post by: EigenUser on February 25, 2016, 01:46:00 AM
Quote from: Jo498 on February 24, 2016, 11:35:41 PMMe too! It is generally such a loud movement and you don't expect it to end like that. Then there's the finale, which seems to take forever to end lol.
Haydn does that several times. E.g. in the G major (5?) in op.33. The first phrase of the first movement is an "ending". op.50/6, 1st mvmt is similar.
And I love the quiet "simple" ending of LvB 8th, 1st mvmt.
I think that one of the most unsettling endings in music that I've heard is the end of Ravel's Gaspard de la Nuit. The whole 3rd movement "Scarbo" consists of a creepy gargoyle hiding in the shadows, occasionally illuminated by flashes of lightning, and occasionally jumping out at you (only to retreat back to the shadows). The unresolved ending is a huge unanswered question because it is like he goes back and hides -- but you don't know when he is coming back! Far more unsettling than if Ravel had just ended it with a "bang" (which would be expected for such a showpiece). It is like Edgar Allen Poe in music form.