http://www.nytimes.com/2007/07/18/arts/music/18phil.html?_r=1&hp=&adxnnl=1&oref=slogin&adxnnlx=1184721263-0FvEfm0++TXFycgUwSldJw
By DANIEL J. WAKIN
Published: July 18, 2007
The New York Philharmonic reached into its family tree and plucked Alan Gilbert, the 40-year-old son of two Philharmonic musicians, as its next music director, making him the first native New Yorker in the position and a rare American in the job.
Philharmonic officials also said they would appoint an elder statesman, Riccardo Muti, 65, to serve in a supporting role equivalent to principal guest conductor.
The decisions, to be formally announced at a news conference today, ended several years of speculation about who would succeed Lorin Maazel, who has two seasons left on his contract.
Mr. Gilbert, who started an annual two-week stint as guest conductor last season, had long been a likely candidate. Orchestra officials said he appeared to be a front-runner at least a year ago, and that the decision crystallized in the spring.
"Every time he's come here, it's been better than the prior time," Zarin Mehta, the orchestra's president, said. "We've watched him grow. He's a good musician. He's approaching the prime of his career. He's young and a New Yorker, and he has family in the orchestra."
Mr. Gilbert's mother, Yoko Takebe, is a violinist, and his father, Michael Gilbert, also a violinist, retired in 2001. A first cousin, Miki Takebe, is the Philharmonic's director of operations.
Mr. Mehta offered Mr. Gilbert the job in a telephone call on July 2, and he is to be introduced to reporters this morning. His contract, which starts in 2009, will run for 5 years and calls for 12 weeks of concerts a season.
While pushing the limit for a baseball player, 42 will be a tender age for the music director of one of the world's major orchestras, especially the Philharmonic, where many musicians and concertgoers expect a seasoned maestro of major stature to occupy the podium.
Several conductors in that category, like Daniel Barenboim and Mr. Muti, said they were not interested in the job. And the Philharmonic has turned to conductors in their early 40s before, like Zubin Mehta and Leonard Bernstein, the orchestra's first American-born music director since its founding conductor, Ureli Corelli Hill, in 1842. Mr. Maazel was born in Paris, but grew up in the United States.
"Could we have gotten an older guy?" asked Paul B. Guenther, the orchestra's chairman. "Maybe, maybe not. But this is the right thing for the orchestra at this time in this city." He acknowledged that the choice is risky. "There are always risks," he said.
Zarin Mehta and other Philharmonic officials presented the decision as a generational change. Mr. Maazel, the music director since 2002, is 77, and Kurt Masur, his predecessor, was 74 when he left that year.
Mr. Mehta said that Mr. Gilbert's skills were above reproach and that he had other important qualities: fresh ideas, the ability to communicate and "that indefinable leadership quality that you look for."
The orchestral landscape is also changing. Elder statesmen of the podium are a diminishing breed. The classical music world is in the grip of a debate about its relevance to society, with the corollary concern that younger audiences must be reached. Some orchestras are experimenting with two or three leaders. Others, like the Chicago Symphony and the Philadelphia Orchestra, have put off permanent decisions by hiring interim chiefs.
New York may have come under pressure to hire a younger music director with the recent announcement by the Los Angeles Philharmonic that it had snapped up Gustavo Dudamel, a 26-year-old Venezuelan considered the hottest conducting property around.
Mr. Gilbert's career has been rising rapidly since he became chief conductor of the Royal Stockholm Philharmonic Orchestra in 2000. He has become a regular guest conductor at major orchestras. Next season he makes his debut at the Vienna State Opera in Bizet's "Carmen."
His musical pedigree is excellent. He substituted as a violinist in the Philadelphia Orchestra (under Mr. Muti himself) while studying at the Curtis Institute of Music; became familiar with the Boston Symphony Orchestra while an undergraduate at Harvard; and was an assistant conductor for the Cleveland Orchestra for three years. He also has a conducting degree from the Juilliard School, having studied there with Otto-Werner Mueller.
Mr. Gilbert made his New York Philharmonic debut in 2001; three years later he, Mr. Muti and David Robertson, now music director of the St. Louis Symphony, were all given regular guest-conducting stints in what was seen as something of a bake-off. Mr. Gilbert has conducted the Philharmonic in 31 concerts.
Mr. Muti, one of the orchestra's favorite guest conductors, is expected to spend about six to eight weeks a season with the orchestra and to lead tours. He will not have a formal contract. The Philharmonic appears to have backtracked from a plan disclosed in April to divide its leadership between a music director and a principal conductor.
Mr. Muti was clearly the choice for the second position. "He just didn't want a title," Mr. Mehta said. "He's free, and he's Italian." Mr. Muti, in a statement, said that conducting the Philharmonic has been a highlight of his musical life.
In an interview, Mr. Gilbert was unstinting in his praise for the orchestra. It was far too early, he said, to express any specific plans. He said he would like to see it "connecting with the city in a way that's really fresh and really alive and really current," and that his job was to keep the orchestra at its musical best.
Mr. Gilbert's connection to New York will be a change from that of Mr. Maazel, who has been fairly removed from the life of the city. Mr. Gilbert said it was premature to say whether he would move back to New York. His wife, Kajsa William-Olsson, is a cellist with the Royal Stockholm Philharmonic, and they have two young children.
"What I hope to do with the Philharmonic is continue to bank on the amazing abilities of the players," he said, "but also think about ways of working together, playing together, listening together, having a flexibility that happens in the moment and causes people to really listen in a fresh way."
In Stockholm, Mr. Gilbert said, he was especially proud of his two-week festivals devoted to living composers. He has also ranged widely through the literature, from the central Germanic repertory of Bach, Haydn, Mozart, Schubert and Beethoven through contemporary Swedish composers.
Swedish music critics have praised Mr. Gilbert's repertory choices and the liveliness of his performances. Reviewers here have been generally positive, too, noting the clarity of his textures, a decisiveness of musical line and a sensitivity to nuance.
Mr. Gilbert is also known for constructing adventurous and interesting programs. "I prefer not to hammer the audience over the head with didactic thinking," he said. "I prefer to let them find their way. It should be possible, without juicing it up, to let the music help people tap into who they are."
In Mr. Gilbert the Philharmonic has a true son of the orchestra and of New York. He grew up on the Upper West Side, attending the Ethical Culture School and Fieldston, a private school in the Riverdale section of the Bronx. He attended Philharmonic concerts weekly as well as rehearsals, and accompanied his parents on tours. He was known as the child handing out passports. Many members have watched him grow up.
"I was this little orchestra brat who knew everybody," he said. "I find it still amazing that it's come to this."
Orchestra officials and Mr. Gilbert said they were not worried that his emotional bond with the orchestra would interfere with his new role as their boss. "Ultimately the health of the organization has to take precedence over one particular person's feelings," Mr. Gilbert said.
At his Philharmonic debut, he said, he was "keenly aware" of his mother's presence to his left, once calling out "Mom!" in jest when she came in a little late during a rehearsal. He said he was also aware of a supportive home-team feeling from the players. But those feelings faded with more performances.
"It's interesting how the work takes over, and the concentration of rehearsals is really all-encompassing," he said. The family dynamic will probably change, he added, "but hopefully it won't disappear."
I like the choice. Get somebody, anybody, who doesn't have one foot in the grave.
They did it! :) Good job New York. I was hoping they'd have the guts for young blood after the L.A. pick. Actually I didn't realize Gilbert was 42, that's not terribly young, a good age, and he's grown up with the orchestra all his life. Very cool.
David Robertson keeps getting flirted with but never asked out, it seems.
And now the eyes turn to Chicago.
Unless Mr. Gilbert leans towards "traditional" programming (Beethoven, Brahms, Bruckner, Wagner, Schubert, etal), his stay in NY will NOT satisfy the old money amongst the Philharmonic subscribers.
I predict his fate will be similar to that which befell Christof Eschenbach in Philadelphia, and Pierre Boulez in NY. A short honeymoon, followed by spats over programming, and finally a divorce.
IMO, they should have gone after James Conlon, Danielle Gatti, or Paavo Jarvi.
A forty-year old music director, bravo!
Quote from: PerfectWagnerite on July 17, 2007, 05:48:56 PM
I like the choice. Get somebody, anybody, who doesn't have one foot in the grave.
When Georg Solti became MD of the Chicago Symphony, he seriously considered moving to the Chicago area. One thing kept him from doing so; he could not find a school--not even an elite, private one--that he felt was good enough for his daughters.
That is why American orchestras have a limited choice. You have to be a) American, b) gay, without children (think MTT in SF for these first two), or c) an empty nester, in other words, someone with one foot in the grave, if you are going to get someone as an MD who will move to your town and make it his/her home.
And, of course, until very recently, it was unthinkable that a woman could be a MD. If there is such a thing as divine justice (which I strongly doubt), someone ought to have to answer someday for the fact that Margaret Hillis was never a music director of anything more than a community orchestra in Elgin, IL.
Quote from: Greta on July 17, 2007, 07:03:08 PM
They did it! :) Good job New York. I was hoping they'd have the guts for young blood after the L.A. pick. Actually I didn't realize Gilbert was 42, that's not terribly young . . . .
No, but it is a step in the right direction away from the gerontocracy (says the still-unknown composer who is not all that far from 50) . . . .
As for Gilbert's abilities, I've known his conducting for twenty years, going back to his time as a student at the Aspen Music Festival. I've heard him conduct many times since and although he was a talented student who stood out from his peers, he has grown and matured since then. In Aspen we were not at all surprised when he was appointed MD of the Royal Stockholm Philharmonic seven or eight years ago, and that tenure has gone very well. He will have 'young' ideas about programming but he's enough of a realist to be able to deal with the moneyed supporters of the NYPhil as well. I predict wonderful things.
Quote from: Greta on July 17, 2007, 07:03:08 PM
And now the eyes turn to Chicago.
I wouldn't expect any dramatic announcements from there anytime soon. Philly is also still looking.
Quote from: Iago on July 17, 2007, 09:19:48 PM
Unless Mr. Gilbert leans towards "traditional" programming (Beethoven, Brahms, Bruckner, Wagner, Schubert, etal), his stay in NY will NOT satisfy the old money amongst the Philharmonic subscribers.
I predict his fate will be similar to that which befell Christof Eschenbach in Philadelphia, and Pierre Boulez in NY. A short honeymoon, followed by spats over programming, and finally a divorce.
IMO, they should have gone after James Conlon, Danielle Gatti, or Paavo Jarvi.
Really, it's the old money elite that has to go. Besides, audiences in NY have changed since Boulez's time. Bang on a Can, Kronos Quartet and the American Composers Orchestra often have better attendance rates than the NYPO these days. Gilbert's programming is eclectic enough of a mix to keep all groups within the NYPO's audience entertained. I think it's a good fit.
Conlon, I must say, I have found boring and not particularly good every time I heard him. Unfortunately they extended his contract here at Ravinia until 2011. Paavo Järvi I think will have his hands full for a while with Cincinnati, Orchestre de Paris and the Frankfurt Radio Symphony.
Based on the three concerts I've heard him do with the New York Philharmonic, Gilbert is fantastic and I am totally delighted that they chose him. I first heard him conduct Ives' Symphony No. 4 in 2004 -- a difficult piece -- and he seemed completely comfortable with it. And then these two, which were marvels of programming. The second one, just last March, was definitely one of the best concerts of the year.
Dvořák, Barber, Dutilleux and Haydn (http://www.musicweb-international.com/SandH/2005/Jan-Jun05/gilbert0406.htm)
Bach, Ligeti and Schumann (http://www.musicweb-international.com/sandh/2007/Jan-Jun07/nypo1703.htm)
--Bruce
Quote from: Iago on July 17, 2007, 09:19:48 PM
Unless Mr. Gilbert leans towards "traditional" programming (Beethoven, Brahms, Bruckner, Wagner, Schubert, etal), his stay in NY will NOT satisfy the old money amongst the Philharmonic subscribers.
I predict his fate will be similar to that which befell Christof Eschenbach in Philadelphia, and Pierre Boulez in NY. A short honeymoon, followed by spats over programming, and finally a divorce.
IMO, they should have gone after James Conlon, Danielle Gatti, or Paavo Jarvi.
Then the old money will not be very happy with him. So much the worse for the old money. I've only heard him twice with the orchestra so far, but his performance of the Brahms-Schoenberg Quartet literally (as they say) brought the house down. I doubt, too, he will meet the same fate as either Boulez or Eschenbach. As the child of two NY Phil musicians, he already has earned a place of affection within the orchestra. And unlike Boulez or Eschenbach, he comes to the position with no baggage. There's little doubt in my mind he will bring a goodly amount of modern music to his programming. I would guess, and hope, his tenure in NY will be comparable to that of Salonen's in LA.
Splendid, Larry.
Quote from: Iago on July 17, 2007, 09:19:48 PM
Unless Mr. Gilbert leans towards "traditional" programming (Beethoven, Brahms, Bruckner, Wagner, Schubert, etal), his stay in NY will NOT satisfy the old money amongst the Philharmonic subscribers.
I predict his fate will be similar to that which befell Christof Eschenbach in Philadelphia, and Pierre Boulez in NY. A short honeymoon, followed by spats over programming, and finally a divorce.
IMO, they should have gone after James Conlon, Danielle Gatti, or Paavo Jarvi.
Or Andrew Litton, who also grew up on the Upper West Side, also went to Ethical-Fieldston, and probably knew Gilbert in school because they are only a year apart. Besides, Litton has done some great recordings of Mahler, which is something the NYPO needs to start doing again.
Quote from: O Mensch on July 18, 2007, 06:40:20 AM
I wouldn't expect any dramatic announcements from there anytime soon. Philly is also still looking.
Really, it's the old money elite that has to go. Besides, audiences in NY have changed since Boulez's time. Bang on a Can, Kronos Quartet and the American Composers Orchestra often have better attendance rates than the NYPO these days. Gilbert's programming is eclectic enough of a mix to keep all groups within the NYPO's audience entertained. I think it's a good fit.
[Snip]
That's wishful thinking -- and hardly realistic. Without the Old Money Elite there wouldn't be a NYPO. Better to have a Philharmonic with the OME than no orchestra at all. In NYC, funding for the arts is nonexistant outside the Old Money Elite, and the corporate honchos they can pressure into it. Take a look at music in Westchester, New Jersey or even Brooklyn and Queens and you will understand just what the NYC music scene would be without those Old Fogies who make the NYPO and Met Opera their fundraising babies.
The make or break for Gilbert will rest on whether he gets a lucrative recording contract for the orchestra. If that happens, then the OME will embrace him. If he doesn't get a substantial contract, then he will be gone. The NYPO needs money, money, money to keep it operating with independence. No money, then more reliance on the OME, and if he's not as skilled at diplomacy and ass-kissing as he is at music, he'll be history.
Quote from: Bunny on July 18, 2007, 07:39:35 AM
Besides, Litton has done some great recordings of Mahler, which is something the NYPO needs to start doing again.
Really? I personally think we need at least a ten year moratorium on Mahler recordings.
Quote from: Bunny on July 18, 2007, 07:39:35 AM
That's wishful thinking -- and hardly realistic. Without the Old Money Elite there wouldn't be a NYPO. Better to have a Philharmonic with the OME than no orchestra at all. In NYC, funding for the arts is nonexistant outside the Old Money Elite, and the corporate honchos they can pressure into it. Take a look at music in Westchester, New Jersey or even Brooklyn and Queens and you will understand just what the NYC music scene would be without those Old Fogies who make the NYPO and Met Opera their fundraising babies.
My point is that those old fogies are old and dying and newer generations of donors aren't quite as square and conservative as the OME. There is an NME, if you will. The NYPO isn't currently funded by it, but there is no reason why a charismatic young conductor with interesting programming couldn't tap into new sources of funds outside the OME.
Quote from: Bunny on July 18, 2007, 07:39:35 AM
The make or break for Gilbert will rest on whether he gets a lucrative recording contract for the orchestra. If that happens, then the OME will embrace him. If he doesn't get a substantial contract, then he will be gone. The NYPO needs money, money, money to keep it operating with independence. No money, then more reliance on the OME, and if he's not as skilled at diplomacy and ass-kissing as he is at music, he'll be history.
First of all, lucrative recording contracts are history. I wouldn't hold my breath on that point even if they were to resurrect Toscanini. Secondly, this increasing ass-kissing prerequisite is precisely the reason why fewer and fewer serious musicians want the job of MD of a US orchestra. That fundamentally needs to change. We need professional ass-kissers to do the ass-kissing so that conductors can concentrate on conducting.
Quote from: O Mensch on July 18, 2007, 07:46:55 AM
My point is that those old fogies are old and dying and newer generations of donors aren't quite as square and conservative as the OME. There is an NME, if you will. The NYPO isn't currently funded by it, but there is no reason why a charismatic young conductor with interesting programming couldn't tap into new sources of funds outside the OME.
First of all, I strongly nominate you for "professional ass kisser"
Secondly, what is "interesting programming"? If you define interesting programming as consisting of music which the OME doesn't know and love and which isn't tonal and even tuneful. they will vote with their feet and leave early or stay away entirely. The "old fogies" that you refer to are largely in their 50s and 60s and not yet ready for the funny farm. Those older than that, endow the orchestra but don't necessarily attend concerts.
Larry hopes that Gilbert will meet with the same success that Salonen has met with in LA. So do I, but Salonen is a realist. He realized that the OM in Hollywood wanted traditional programming. So he largely restricted his "experiments in new music" to a series known as the "Green Umbrella Concerts" (performed about twice monthly, and NOT asssociated with any regular subscription series). Every once in a while a new, modern work is programmed as part of a regular subscription concert. But such music is presented in small enough doses (and is usually accompanied by an old warhorse) so it is palatable even to the OM.
The LA Philharmonic programming is one of the most conserrvative and traditional in the entire USA. Plus of course they also perform at the Hollywood Bowl in the summer, where even more traditional and conservative programming is presented. And if they wished, they could probably even "get away" with less traditional fare during the regular season, as they perform in an acoustical marvel known as Disney Hall, which the NYP can only salivate over, and which, in and of itself, attracts huge audiences.
So unless Mr. Gilbert and the Philharmonic management have their heads screwed on straight, it ain't gonna be a happy marriage.
Quote from: Iago on July 18, 2007, 08:21:13 AM
First of all, I strongly nominate you for "professional ass kisser"
That's a very bad idea. I'm so good at pissing people off and being uncompromising, I think I'd be a total failure in that capacity.
Quote from: Iago on July 18, 2007, 08:21:13 AM
Secondly, what is "interesting programming"? If you define interesting programming as consisting of music which the OME doesn't know and love and which isn't tonal and even tuneful. they will vote with their feet and leave early or stay away entirely. The "old fogies" that you refer to are largely in their 50s and 60s and not yet ready for the funny farm. Those older than that, endow the orchestra but don't necessarily attend concerts.
Larry hopes that Gilbert will meet with the same success that Salonen has met with in LA. So do I, but Salonen is a realist. He realized that the OM in Hollywood wanted traditional programming. So he largely restricted his "experiments in new music" to a series known as the "Green Umbrella Concerts" (performed about twice monthly, and NOT asssociated with any regular subscription series). Every once in a while a new, modern work is programmed as part of a regular subscription concert. But such music is presented in small enough doses (and is usually accompanied by an old warhorse) so it is palatable even to the OM.
The LA Philharmonic programming is one of the most conserrvative and traditional in the entire USA. Plus of course they also perform at the Hollywood Bowl in the summer, where even more traditional and conservative programming is presented. And if they wished, they could probably even "get away" with less traditional fare during the regular season, as they perform in an acoustical marvel known as Disney Hall, which the NYP can only salivate over, and which, in and of itself, attracts huge audiences.
So unless Mr. Gilbert and the Philharmonic management have their heads screwed on straight, it ain't gonna be a happy marriage.
Did I say anything about atonal music? Did I say non-traditional? No. Why all those assumptions and why the diatribe? As reported by others in this thread, Gilbert has evidently been good at creatively mixing the familiar with the unfamiliar in a coherent fashion. This sounds like the correct approach to me. And I would not describe the LAPO programming as the most conservative in the US by far. You need to get out more.
Quote from: O Mensch on July 18, 2007, 09:06:37 AM
And I would not describe the LAPO programming as the most conservative in the US by far. You need to get out more.
I don't like being misquoted. I said the LAP programming was ONE of the most conservative in the USA, NOT "THE" most conservative. I Live in Las Vegas and regularly subscribe to the LAP in Disney Hall (about twice monthly). So I "get out" quite frequently.
Quote from: Iago on July 18, 2007, 09:19:33 AM
I don't like being misquoted. I said the LAP programming was ONE of the most conservative in the USA, NOT "THE" most conservative.
I wouldn't describe it as that either.
Ridiculous! The wimp will be in over his head. Totally. $:)
Thomas
Quote from: sound67 on July 19, 2007, 03:21:25 AM
Ridiculous! The wimp will be in over his head. Totally. $:)
Thomas
Do you realize what a risk you take by agreeing with me on this forum?
Another good article (http://www.nytimes.com/2007/07/19/arts/music/19tomm.html?ex=1342497600&en=1c4f2e50b1a922ca&ei=5090&partner=rssuserland&emc=rss) in The New York Times today about Alan Gilbert's appointment. I think he is truly an excellent choice and may herald a great new era for the orchestra.
--Bruce
Quote from: O Mensch on July 18, 2007, 07:46:55 AM
Really? I personally think we need at least a ten year moratorium on Mahler recordings.
Especially if you don't care whether the NYPO breaks even or sees a profit. Mahler is one of the composers that fills an auditorium. There won't be any moratorium in the next 10 years.
QuoteMy point is that those old fogies are old and dying and newer generations of donors aren't quite as square and conservative as the OME. There is an NME, if you will. The NYPO isn't currently funded by it, but there is no reason why a charismatic young conductor with interesting programming couldn't tap into new sources of funds outside the OME.
The next time you are in Philharmonic Hall take a look around you. There are no young benefactors who are attending concerts. You find a middle-aged and middle-class audience with a sprinkling of young faces who don't have the means to give the big bucks. I hope those old fogeys last another century.
QuoteFirst of all, lucrative recording contracts are history. I wouldn't hold my breath on that point even if they were to resurrect Toscanini. Secondly, this increasing ass-kissing prerequisite is precisely the reason why fewer and fewer serious musicians want the job of MD of a US orchestra. That fundamentally needs to change. We need professional ass-kissers to do the ass-kissing so that conductors can concentrate on conducting.
If that were true, the the BP would never have gone for Simon Rattle. One of the most attractive lines on his CV was his big buck contract with EMI. And, take a look at the beating he's taking in Berlin. That's another match that everyone thought was going to be made in heaven which has turned out to be a divorce in the making.
There's going to be politics, ass-licking, and more politics in whatever major cosmopolitan center you look at. If any young conductor wants to think that he's above it, then he should look for a nice provincial spot where he can whip his orchestra into the form he desires, pick his own repertory without pain, and just do his thing without getting rich, or becoming a superstar. Talent without ambition is as peculiar as ambition without talent, and I don't think that's what NY needs either. New York needs someone with talent to burn, vision and the guts and ambition to make it through. It's time for someone who can hold his own against the OME, who's smart enough to do it diplomatically, and has the energy to continue to be productive in this arena.
Btw, Gilbert's honeymoon has already begun. NYC is the hardest place to succeed. There's no way to predict whether this will be a match made in heaven or one of the greatest fiascos in music history. NY has a way of leveling the best and inspiring the worst, so it's silly to try to predict what will happen. Gilbert is going to have to last longer than the honeymoon which is already in progress, and right now the level of hype is setting him up for a big fall. I don't envy him right now. If everyone expects more than he can deliver, even if expectations are unreasonable, he's the one who's going to be blamed -- not the old fogeys or the media.
Quote from: Bunny on July 19, 2007, 10:15:36 AM
Especially if you don't care whether the NYPO breaks even or sees a profit. Mahler is one of the composers that fills an auditorium. There won't be any moratorium in the next 10 years.
I said nothing of a moratorium on Mahler concerts. I asked for a moratorium on Mahler recordings.
Quote from: Bunny on July 19, 2007, 10:15:36 AM
The next time you are in Philharmonic Hall take a look around you. There are no young benefactors who are attending concerts. You find a middle-aged and middle-class audience with a sprinkling of young faces who don't have the means to give the big bucks. I hope those old fogeys last another century.
If you had read what I wrote you would have noticed that I said that there are plenty young well-heeled folk who listen to classical music in NY. They just don't go to the NY Phil, because the programming is booooooring. I, and others as well, hope that Gilbert can change that and tap a bit into the audience pool that at the moment prefers to attend alternative venues in NYC. If Gilbert can woo the current old fogies, fine, more power to him. But he will have to cultivate new audiences because today's kids are tomorrow's old fogies and the current old fogies are mortal.
Quote from: Bunny on July 19, 2007, 10:15:36 AM
If that were true, the the BP would never have gone for Simon Rattle. One of the most attractive lines on his CV was his big buck contract with EMI. And, take a look at the beating he's taking in Berlin. That's another match that everyone thought was going to be made in heaven which has turned out to be a divorce in the making.
That's a completely different issue. US orchestras are extremely expensive as recording artists. The era of US orchestras with lucrative recording contracts with major record labels is over. Look around: Philly is with Ondine, SFSO and CSO have their own in-house labels, Cleveland and BSO have no permanent recording contract. The only exception is LAPO which currently has Salonen with DG and will soon have Dudamel on DG. But even so, Salonen's records haven't exactly been top sellers and neither are Sir Simon's with the BP and Dudamel will have to start making his records sound more like his concerts because his recent Beethoven CD is a bit of a superfluous dud.
Nice article, Bruce. I loved the lede.
I haven't been to a Philharmonic concert in ages, though I suspect that state of affairs may change soon. I've been saying for years a major orchestra should appoint a young American as music director, and now that one of them has finally done it, I will follow his tenure with great interest. Anyone who does a good job with the Ives 4th is OK in my book.
Still, Iago may have a point abut old money. Look at Boston. Levine has done more to revitalize that orchestra than anyone could have imagined, but there's still a lot of grumbling from the OM patrons about they way he imposes some of his favorite composers on them. How dare he! I read a letter recently from a disgruntled concertgoer blaming him for the orchestra's financial deficit and stating that patrons are voting with their feet --- neglecting to mention, of course, that out of towners like me and Bruce are voting with our plane tickets, flying to Boston for many of the premieres. We wouldn't think of traveling for another Beethoven cycle, which we can find at home.
In any event, I wish Mr. Gilbert well, and I'll be waiting eagerly for the NYPO prospectus in the mail. I just hope he doesn't hit a brick wall.
I notice he played viola for the Philadelphia for a time. I wonder if my old friend Irv knew him. But Irv is gone, and I can't ask him.
Alex Ross on his blog points out that Gilbert is really not that unusually young if you look at the big picture. Elder statesment music directors are a rather recent phenomenon.
http://www.therestisnoise.com/2007/07/how-young-is-al.html
Quote from: O Mensch on July 19, 2007, 10:30:20 AM
If you had read what I wrote you would have noticed that I said that there are plenty young well-heeled folk who listen to classical music in NY. They just don't go to the NY Phil, because the programming is booooooring. I, and others as well, hope that Gilbert can change that and tap a bit into the audience pool that at the moment prefers to attend alternative venues in NYC. If Gilbert can woo the current old fogies, fine, more power to him. But he will have to cultivate new audiences because today's kids are tomorrow's old fogies and the current old fogies are mortal.
Do you really believe that? If there are so many of them, why haven't I ever seen them at Carnegie Hall where the programming is a bit more diverse and the orchestras come from all over America and the world? There is a big show for the major fund raisers, but no individual subscriptions. Corporations buy the seats in the boxes and prime parquet, not individuals. Same thing at the opera. When I want great seats at the Opera, my husband calls up one of the banks he works with for tickets. I never see the same people in my box at Carnegie from one concert to the next, and I'm in my 50s and I'm usually the youngest person in the box at any given performance unless I drag one of my kids. Giving to the NYPO or Carnegie Hall is a corporate venture, and corporate money is controlled by the Old Fogeys. Just look at the back of the playbills and count how many people are in there giving thousands. With rare exception, the big donors aren't young and they never will be.
Quote from: O Mensch on July 19, 2007, 01:39:47 PM
Alex Ross on his blog points out that Gilbert is really not that unusually young if you look at the big picture. Elder statesment music directors are a rather recent phenomenon.
Well, maybe, but as I've said before, I don't read Alex Ross.
Quote from: O Mensch on July 19, 2007, 10:30:20 AM
If you had read what I wrote you would have noticed that I said that there are plenty young well-heeled folk who listen to classical music in NY. They just don't go to the NY Phil, because the programming is booooooring. I, and others as well, hope that Gilbert can change that and tap a bit into the audience pool that at the moment prefers to attend alternative venues in NYC.
I suppose if you have season tickets to the NYPO year in and year out you may want to hear a more "diverse" program. Me, I go to one concert, maybe even two, per year. WHen I go I don't want to hear Barber, or Dutilleux. I want to hear Bruckner, Mahler, Richard Strauss, Wagner, SIbelius, Tchaikovsky, etc., music that I know well and can relate to. That's just me.
Quote from: Bunny on July 19, 2007, 04:06:04 PM
Do you really believe that? If there are so many of them, why haven't I ever seen them at Carnegie Hall where the programming is a bit more diverse and the orchestras come from all over America and the world?
Maybe this is your problem:
Quote from: Bunny on July 19, 2007, 04:06:04 PM
I never see the same people in my box at Carnegie from one concert to the next, and I'm in my 50s and
That's certainly not where you will find the young people. I also wouldn't say that programming at Carnegie is particularly diverse. Visiting ensembles tend to bring the same old warhorses year in and year out. Zankel on the other hand is another matter. The perspectives series is also pretty good. I lived in NY for a total of six years, but I only once had a subscription to Carnegie and that was a perspectives series. I was in my 20s then.
Quote from: Bunny on July 19, 2007, 04:06:04 PM
I'm usually the youngest person in the box at any given performance unless I drag one of my kids. Giving to the NYPO or Carnegie Hall is a corporate venture, and corporate money is controlled by the Old Fogeys. Just look at the back of the playbills and count how many people are in there giving thousands. With rare exception, the big donors aren't young and they never will be.
That's a function of wealth which isn't easily attained at a young age. But as I said, you need to cultivate young audiences otherwise your old fogies will die and the current youth will not donate once they become old fogies themselves because classical music will have no meaning to them unless they start experiencing it regularly during their youth. For that reason it is absolutely imperative to attract young audiences even if they don't donate as much as the old fogies. Having been involved with organizing a series of chamber concerts in New York, I am quite aware that the pool of reasonably well heeled young (20s/30s) people with an interest in classical music or sufficient curiousity about music generally is quite deep in New York. Deeper than elsewhere in the US, both because of the high salaries paid in Ny and because of the disproportionate number of dynamic young people. There is absolutely no excuse for an institution like the NYPO not to be tapping into that. I know from a number of people from that pool that they avoid the NYPO because of the programming, the audience and the lousiness of the acoustics of Avery Fisher. A renovation of the latter is scheduled in the near future. Gilbert can help with the other two points.
Quote from: Joe Barron on July 19, 2007, 04:58:29 PM
Well, maybe, but as I've said before, I don't read Alex Ross.
Your loss, really. But may I ask why? Of all New York area critics, he certainly must be the least offensive.
Quote from: O Mensch on July 19, 2007, 07:12:28 PM
Your loss, really. But may I ask why? Of all New York area critics, he certainly must be the least offensive.
Well, I've been offended on a couple of occasions. As I've said on the "Alex Ross" thread, he gets a lot of stuff wrong---and I mean factual stuff, not just opinions. I've noticed some misinformation in his articles, and I decided that if I couldn't trust him with material I know something about, I certainly couldn't trust him with subjects I'm ignorant of, in which he could mislead me without my ever knowing it. He lost me as a reader a long time ago.
Quote from: Joe Barron on July 20, 2007, 09:54:14 AM
Well, I've been offended on a couple of occasions. As I've said on the "Alex Ross" thread, he gets a lot of stuff wrong---and I mean factual stuff, not just opinions. I've noticed some misinformation in his articles, and I decided that if I couldn't trust him with material I know something about, I certainly couldn't trust him with subjects I'm ignorant of, in which he could mislead me without my ever knowing it. He lost me as a reader a long time ago.
I guess for me it's more a question of "what else is out there?". Compared to all the other NY area critics, Alex Ross is one of the few who has his head mostly screwed on properly. Tommasini is a shameless shill for his favorite artists and Holland, Midgette and Kozinn rarely know what they're talking about.
Quote from: O Mensch on July 18, 2007, 07:46:55 AM
Really? I personally think we need at least a ten year moratorium on Mahler recordings.
What's with the "we need" business? I definitely don't need any moratorium on Mahler recordings or the recordings of any other conductor. Keep them coming at a fast pace, and I'll decide which to acquire for my music library.
Quote from: Don on July 20, 2007, 11:16:26 AM
What's with the "we need" business? I definitely don't need any moratorium on Mahler recordings or the recordings of any other conductor. Keep them coming at a fast pace, and I'll decide which to acquire for my music library.
Hey, it's Bunny who started with the "we need" business. I don't really "need" anything besides water oxygen and my wife. ;D
Quote from: O Mensch on July 20, 2007, 11:20:06 AM
Hey, it's Bunny who started with the "we need" business. I don't really "need" anything besides water oxygen and my wife. ;D
Bring along some ice and I'll join the two of you. 8)
Quote from: Don on July 20, 2007, 11:21:31 AM
Bring along some ice and I'll join the two of you. 8)
I don't think we're into that sort of thing. (Boy have we gone off topic yet again... ::) )
Quote from: sound67 on July 19, 2007, 03:21:25 AM
Ridiculous! The wimp will be in over his head. Totally. $:)
Thomas
Obviously that settles it.
And this just up: Alan Gilbert conducting the Cleveland Orchestra in the following program, thanks to American Public Media's SymphonyCast:
Stravinsky: Symphony in Three Movements
Mozart: Clarinet Concerto (with Franklin Cohen, clarinet)
Dvořák: Symphony No. 6
--Bruce
And now Gilbert has a new job, too!
Latest on Forbes.com:
Alan Gilbert's New Job means an architectural upgrade and, to some extent, a return home. It should be a mutually happy spell! (https://www.forbes.com/sites/jenslaurson/2017/06/23/new-york-hamburg-alan-gilberts-new-orchestra-and-his-architectural-upgrade/)