GMG Classical Music Forum

Maybe this is a stupid poll, I don't know, but I'd just like to find out from which standpoint members approach music. I always approach music from a purely emotional standpoint. I have never cared about connecting intellectually with a piece of music. When I listen to atonal music, I don't study the music like a math problem and try to analyze the tone rows; I look for emotion hidden beneath the surface. That would explain why I vastly prefer Schoenberg and Berg to Webern and the Darmstadt school. Also, composers such as Simpson and Panufnik have often used palindromic devices in their music. Do I care? Absolutely not! If I tried to decipher all these hidden codes, I would miss out on the power and breadth of their music. Just my two cents. :)

Both. I want some meat with my ice cream.

A mixture of both for me. 8)

Quote from: Greg on September 22, 2013, 05:52:35 PM
Both. I want some meat with my ice cream.

(http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20111229231032/bacon/images/c/c1/Bacon_ice.jpg)

I could've went with both, because I do consider structural integrity and craftsmanship to been important parts of music, but, in the end, it's only the emotional response music invokes in me that matters. :)

Quote from: Daverz on September 22, 2013, 06:21:23 PM
(http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20111229231032/bacon/images/c/c1/Bacon_ice.jpg)

Yuck! Bacon is good by itself, but I don't get why food companies and restaurants feel like they have to make a bacon flavor of everything. I even saw Burger King (a chain I despise, by the way) advertise a bacon sundae a while ago. ???

Now, back to the regularly scheduled programming.......

Quote from: kyjo on September 22, 2013, 03:14:38 PM
Maybe this is a stupid poll, I don't know, but I'd just like to find out from which standpoint members approach music. I always approach music from a purely emotional standpoint. I have never cared about connecting intellectually with a piece of music. When I listen to atonal music, I don't study the music like a math problem and try to analyze the tone rows; I look for emotion hidden beneath the surface. That would explain why I vastly prefer Schoenberg and Berg to Webern and the Darmstadt school. Also, composers such as Simpson and Panufnik have often used palindromic devices in their music. Do I care? Absolutely not! If I tried to decipher all these hidden codes, I would miss out on the power and breadth of their music. Just my two cents. :)

Personally, I don't understand how you can delink intellectual and atonal. For me, these are inherently linked. I might even go so far as to say I find making an emotional connection with atonal pieces impossible (not sure I would, but just contemplating it shows you the difference in our thinking).

Quote from: mc ukrneal on September 22, 2013, 09:44:33 PM
Personally, I don't understand how you can delink intellectual and atonal. For me, these are inherently linked. I might even go so far as to say I find making an emotional connection with atonal pieces impossible (not sure I would, but just contemplating it shows you the difference in our thinking).

I find all of Schoenberg's works to be very emotional.  In fact, my problem with some of his works is not the lack of traditional tonality, but the wearying emotional intensity of some of them (e.g. the Violin Concerto.)

Quote from: Daverz on September 22, 2013, 09:52:57 PM
I find all of Schoenberg's works to be very emotional.  In fact, my problem with some of his works is not the lack of traditional tonality, but the wearying emotional intensity of some of them (e.g. the Violin Concerto.)

Amazing, isn't it? How two people can hear the same things and react in completely different ways - this is what I wish we could explain/understand better.

Quote from: mc ukrneal on September 22, 2013, 09:44:33 PM
Personally, I don't understand how you can delink intellectual and atonal. For me, these are inherently linked. I might even go so far as to say I find making an emotional connection with atonal pieces impossible (not sure I would, but just contemplating it shows you the difference in our thinking).

Sorry, I meant twelve-tone rather than atonal. :-[ I get those two mixed up all the time! ::)

I found some Schoenberg extremely emotional, I would say hysterical, other pedantically scholar. He was great composer it's for sure but I 'm not sur that I really love any of his works.

Quote from: mc ukrneal on September 22, 2013, 09:44:33 PM
Personally, I don't understand how you can delink intellectual and atonal.

Or intellectual and tonal.  If we're not using intellectual as some sort of dirty word.

None of the above, and sometimes all of the above.

Pure enjoyment.  When I discovered classical music, I knew that I had found "my music".

So, perhaps more on the emotional than intellectual, but it can also be both and also none of the above.  8)

Quote from: ChamberNut on September 23, 2013, 10:13:30 AM
Pure enjoyment.  When I discovered classical music, I knew that I had found "my music".

I should have included that as an option. But, for me, much enjoyment stems from the emotional reaction I have from listening to the music. :)

I don't think the two are separable.  Even if you react emotionally to music it is not without reason even if poorly articulated.

Quote from: mszczuj on September 23, 2013, 10:06:32 AM
I found some Schoenberg extremely emotional, I would say hysterical, other pedantically scholar. He was great composer it's for sure but I 'm not sur that I really love any of his works.

I LOVE Schoenberg's earlier works (e.g. Verklarte Nacht, Pelleas et Melisande, Gurrelieder, Chamber Symphony no. 1 and String Quartet no. 2), like many of his atonal/12-tone works (e.g. the piano and violin concertos, Five Orchestral Pieces, Chamber Symphony no. 2 and Erwartung), but have trouble warming to quite a few of his works (e.g. Pierrot Lunaire, Moses und Aron, Orchestral Variations and SQs 3 and 4). Overall, though, my favorite of the Second Viennese School is Berg. Aside from the operas (which I'm in the process of warming up to) and the Chamber Concerto, I love everything this man wrote. There's so much genuine emotion in his music. That's the problem I run into with Webern. I enjoy his early works (e.g. Passacaglia, Im Sommerwind and Langsamer Satz) quite a bit, but his 12-tone works make no connection with me whatsoever. My loss, I'm sure, but Webern's music comes across to me as little more than calculated ingenuity. :(

Quote from: kyjo on September 22, 2013, 03:14:38 PM
Maybe this is a stupid poll, I don't know, but I'd just like to find out from which standpoint members approach music. I always approach music from a purely emotional standpoint. I have never cared about connecting intellectually with a piece of music. When I listen to atonal music, I don't study the music like a math problem and try to analyze the tone rows; I look for emotion hidden beneath the surface. That would explain why I vastly prefer Schoenberg and Berg to Webern and the Darmstadt school. Also, composers such as Simpson and Panufnik have often used palindromic devices in their music. Do I care? Absolutely not! If I tried to decipher all these hidden codes, I would miss out on the power and breadth of their music. Just my two cents. :)

Intellectually

You have the stuff the composer left. And then you have people who play it. I'm mostly interested in how their performances say something about my world.  "Say something" isn't quite right but it'll have to do for now.

I think that sort of engagement with music is intellectual.

Mostly emotionally, as music is all about emotion to me.... But having perfect pitch, I always find myself analysing the harmony in my head whilst listening, and it's always fun to study the more technical side as well.

So, a mixture of both for me. :)

Thinking, rethinking I've found the answer.

Semantically.

Quote from: kyjo on September 23, 2013, 11:01:46 AM
I LOVE Schoenberg's earlier works (e.g. Verklarte Nacht, Pelleas et Melisande, Gurrelieder, Chamber Symphony no. 1 and String Quartet no. 2), like many of his atonal/12-tone works (e.g. the piano and violin concertos, Five Orchestral Pieces, Chamber Symphony no. 2 and Erwartung), but have trouble warming to quite a few of his works (e.g. Pierrot Lunaire, Moses und Aron, Orchestral Variations and SQs 3 and 4).

Have you listened to the String Trio? I listened to it for the first time just a couple of days ago. Very approachable. ;)

What do you think we have two ears for?

Quote from: Christo on September 23, 2013, 09:43:26 PM
What do you think we have two ears for?

The better to hold the specs in place with?

A mixture of both.

The mixture ratio may vary, but a piece of music. which dosn´t talk to my emotions at all. will not be able to keep my attention in the long run.

Quote from: Opus106 on September 23, 2013, 09:34:28 PM
Have you listened to the String Trio? I listened to it for the first time just a couple of days ago. Very approachable. ;)

Excellent, Nav!

This poll also needs the On the "What Does It Do for Me?" Level option.

Quote from: James on September 24, 2013, 02:50:57 AM
The best stuff operates on many layers, and you can admire it from various angles & vantage points .. I want to be moved in some way - impact, stimulation, visceral, cerebral .. I would like something to remember and think about. Something that really enters my consciousness and stays with me, and calls me back to it. I like mystery, truth, the "real stuff".

Exactly. I called it: semantically.

Quote from: James on September 24, 2013, 02:50:57 AM
The best stuff operates on many layers, and you can admire it from various angles & vantage points .. I want to be moved in some way - impact, stimulation, visceral, cerebral .. I would like something to remember and think about. Something that really enters my consciousness and stays with me, and calls me back to it. I like mystery, truth, the "real stuff".

For once, I'm in total agreement with James.

More emotionally than intellectually; classical music has always got the power of evoking so vivid, overwhelming feelings that make me completely involve, but at the same time I often like paying attention to the technical side of a composition (orchestration, timbres, tempi, chords, use of the ornaments, etc), especially when I listen to piano music since I've studied piano. to come to the point, a mixture of both.

Quote from: James on September 24, 2013, 02:50:57 AM
The best stuff operates on many layers, and you can admire it from various angles & vantage points .. I want to be moved in some way - impact, stimulation, visceral, cerebral .. I would like something to remember and think about. Something that really enters my consciousness and stays with me, and calls me back to it. I like mystery, truth, the "real stuff".

Sometimes, yes. But not always. Sometimes the best is the simplist and most direct.

Quote from: kyjo on September 23, 2013, 11:01:46 AM
have trouble warming to quite a few of his works (e.g. Pierrot Lunaire, Moses und Aron, Orchestral Variations and SQs 3 and 4). whatsoever.

I've always loved Pierrot.  I've never found it "difficult", but rather playful, cheeky and fun.  I didn't catch up with the late string quartets until recently (Fred Sherry Quartet) and find them beautiful and compelling.

I very early decided that a lot of attitudes about Schoenberg were just so much Kulturkampf detritus, echoed in the culture wars of the 60s. 

Never much enjoyed the Bergian style.

Quote from: mc ukrneal on September 24, 2013, 10:00:52 PM
Sometimes, yes. But not always. Sometimes the best is the simplest and most direct.

Excellent corollary.

Quote from: Daverz on September 24, 2013, 11:14:29 PM
I've always loved Pierrot.  I've never found it "difficult", but rather playful, cheeky and fun.  I didn't catch up with the late string quartets until recently (Fred Sherry Quartet) and find them beautiful and compelling.

I very early decided that a lot of attitudes about Schoenberg were just so much Kulturkampf detritus, echoed in the culture wars of the 60s. 

Never much enjoyed the Bergian style.

Thanks for this. I do like Berg, but as a rule find the work of his teacher richer, more rewarding.

Quote from: mc ukrneal on September 24, 2013, 10:00:52 PM
Sometimes, yes. But not always. Sometimes the best is the simplest and most direct.

But simplicity and directness can work on several layers at once: and often the achievement of simplicity requires a good deal of effort before it is achieved.

To take a quick, and possibly hackneyed example:  Mahler's Adagietto from the Fifth has (for most people) a high emotional impact--but appreciating/experiencing the emotional impact does not keep you from appreciating on an intellectual level the rather simple musical devices he used to achieved that impact.

Interesting  snapshot of the results at the moment
23 people have answered the poll.
6 say they listen from the emotional standpoint with no input from the intellectual standpoint.
17 (myself being one of them) say they listen from a standpoint that mixes both together.
0 say they listen from the intellectual standpoint with no input from the emotional standpoint.

Quote from: Jeffrey Smith on September 25, 2013, 01:50:08 PM
Interesting  snapshot of the results at the moment
23 people have answered the poll.
6 say they listen from the emotional standpoint with no input from the intellectual standpoint.
17 (myself being one of them) say they listen from a standpoint that mixes both together.
0 say they listen from the intellectual standpoint with no input from the emotional standpoint.

Yes, in hindsight, this was a rather pointless poll. :-[ I'll be sticking to Top 10 polls from now on! ;)

Quote from: kyjo on September 25, 2013, 01:51:54 PM
Yes, in hindsight, this was a rather pointless poll. :-[ I'll be sticking to Top 10 polls from now on! ;)

No the poll was pointed, just not in the way that you wanted! >:D

Quote from: kyjo on September 25, 2013, 01:51:54 PM
Yes, in hindsight, this was a rather pointless poll. :-[ I'll be sticking to Top 10 polls from now on! ;)

I wouldn't call it pointless.  It's brought out the fact that all of us interact with music (and probably all art) on emotional and non verbal levels.  Some of if is delight in analyzing how composer X achieves an effect, but not all of it.

Passionately.

I must add one remark - music is prior to intellect and prior to emotions.

Quote from: kyjo on September 22, 2013, 03:14:38 PM
Maybe this is a stupid poll, I don't know, but I'd just like to find out from which standpoint members approach music. I always approach music from a purely emotional standpoint. I have never cared about connecting intellectually with a piece of music. When I listen to atonal music, I don't study the music like a math problem and try to analyze the tone rows; I look for emotion hidden beneath the surface. That would explain why I vastly prefer Schoenberg and Berg to Webern and the Darmstadt school. Also, composers such as Simpson and Panufnik have often used palindromic devices in their music. Do I care? Absolutely not! If I tried to decipher all these hidden codes, I would miss out on the power and breadth of their music. Just my two cents. :)

Actually a very interesting poll. My approach is, unsurprisingly perhaps, the same as yours. I notice that our taste in music is very similar.

Quote from: vandermolen on September 29, 2013, 01:07:20 AM
Actually a very interesting poll. My approach is, unsurprisingly perhaps, the same as yours. I notice that our taste in music is very similar.

Thank you, Jeffrey! :)