Goodness me, what a dull piece: 75 turgid minutes of undeveloped wandering program music, sometimes pinching from Daphis and Chloe, Poem of Ecstasy, Nutcracker or the Ring etc and adding up to a lot less than the sum of its parts. I'm playing it repeatedly but it's not getting much better: just another superficial crowd pleaser in the Proms, along with their film music, jazz, musicals and so on they can't get enough of and particularly emphasize at the beginning of the stupid season to lie to and bring in more of the clueless masses.
Gliere's First is a well wrought and stirring piece though, if still overblown.
Quote from: Sean on July 21, 2007, 12:24:50 AM
Goodness me, what a dull piece: 75 turgid minutes of undeveloped wandering program music, sometimes pinching from Daphis and Chloe, Poem of Ecstasy, Nutcracker or the Ring etc and adding up to a lot less than the sum of its parts. I'm playing it repeatedly but it's not getting much better: just another superficial crowd pleaser in the Proms, along with their film music, jazz, musicals and so on they can't get enough of and particularly emphasize at the beginning of the stupid season to lie to and bring in more of the clueless masses.
Gliere's First is a well wrought and stirring piece though, if still overblown.
75 minutes and you are already complaining, my friend? ;) Try Mahler :)
Quote from: Sean on July 21, 2007, 12:24:50 AM
Goodness me, what a dull piece: 75 turgid minutes of undeveloped wandering program music, sometimes pinching from Daphis and Chloe, Poem of Ecstasy, Nutcracker or the Ring etc and adding up to a lot less than the sum of its parts. I'm playing it repeatedly but it's not getting much better: just another superficial crowd pleaser in the Proms, along with their film music, jazz, musicals and so on they can't get enough of and particularly emphasize at the beginning of the stupid season to lie to and bring in more of the clueless masses.
Gliere's First is a well wrought and stirring piece though, if still overblown.
Just rminded me why my Marco Polo recording probably haven't been touched for 15 years. The other Gliere piece I know, his Concerto for Coloratura Soprano, struck me as pretty unintersting too. Not a composer I will go out of my way to investigate further, unless there's a red hot recommendation somewhere.
Quote from: Sean on July 21, 2007, 12:24:50 AM
Goodness me, what a dull piece: 75 turgid minutes of undeveloped wandering program music, sometimes pinching from Daphis and Chloe, Poem of Ecstasy, Nutcracker or the Ring etc and adding up to a lot less than the sum of its parts. I'm playing it repeatedly but it's not getting much better: just another superficial crowd pleaser in the Proms, along with their film music, jazz, musicals and so on they can't get enough of and particularly emphasize at the beginning of the stupid season to lie to and bring in more of the clueless masses.
Keep listening ........ and report back in a few months .........
Quote from: erato on July 22, 2007, 03:08:10 AM
Just rminded me why my Marco Polo recording probably haven't been touched for 15 years. The other Gliere piece I know, his Concerto for Coloratura Soprano, struck me as pretty unintersting too. Not a composer I will go out of my way to investigate further, unless there's a red hot recommendation somewhere.
I also know the
Coloratura- a missed opportunity I thought.
However the
Horn concerto is a good piece.
There's also Glazunov symphs in the
Third and the material is consistently plain- what a magpie he could be.
His best piece is the Red Poppy (I have the Suite on Chandos). Very nice!
Sure thing Rabin: I don't know that one yet.
I'm rather fond of the work. Apart from the Stokowski evisceration that was on Capital, I think the Rakhlin recording on Melodiya was one of the best.
Sounds like yet another example of musical constipation.
Gliere's 3rd is bizarre, misshapen and noisy, and all the other criticisms levelled against it here are valid. As easy as I find it to condemn its faults I still wonder why I keep listening to it. And I do keep listening to it. I got to know it first from a band arrangement which managed to distill the 20 minute first movement down to a disjointed 7 minutes. I hated it so much I got ahold of the Scherchen recording of the full-length work to see if it got any better or worse with length. The first movement made more sense, but then there was this obsessive-compulsive 2nd movement which did nothing but shiver and twitter for several minutes before introducing a long melody seemingly from a Rachmaninoff unable to hit the "off" switch. The brief scherzo had a nice tune, but then came this vulgar shieking from the 2nd movement. The last movement was a long, aimless disaster (in Scherchen's recording the clearly underrehearsed orchestra is always on the verge of falling completely apart, and you can hear the conductor counting out loud to keep them together).
It was so horrible I had to listen to it again. A year later I had to take it out again to make sure it was as horrible as I remembered. And I kept taking it out and listening. Eventually I realized I actually kind of liked the piece, who knows why. It's all wrong, and yet something about the piece is all right. It's the darndest thing.
I was told by a friend who recommended it 20 years ago that it's one of those "guilty pleasure" works. So far I have found my friend's accessment to be half right --- guilty is right, but I have yet to locate the pleasure.
Truth be told, one time I played to it without paying attention and it was better.
Mark G. Simon wrote:
QuoteIt was so horrible I had to listen to it again. A year later I had to take it out again to make sure it was as horrible as I remembered. And I kept taking it out and listening. Eventually I realized I actually kind of liked the piece, who knows why. It's all wrong, and yet something about the piece is all right. It's the darndest thing.
Dude! Here's why you keep listening to it: Gliere's
Ilya Murometz Symphony #3 kicks and gnaws at your id, especially if you realize that Gliere is musically describing the contradictory story of a bigger-than-life medieval hero, probably mythical, although I recall the Russian Orthodox Church lists him as a canonized saint.
As a result the music is "big, noisy, bizarre" and so on, fitting for such an outsized character. It appeals to that 9 year-old boy in the depths of your brain who still yearns to jump off the monkey-bars with a yardstick to attack a dragon or Tartars on the march!
I have the CHANDOS recording of all 3 symphonies, with Edward Downes conducting. Fun stuff!
Quote from: Cato on August 06, 2007, 07:29:55 AM
I have the CHANDOS recording of all 3 symphonies, with Edward Downes conducting. Fun stuff!
I also have the Downes recording of the Third, which I bought after hearing the piece live at Carnegie Hall, with Charles Dutoit and Montreal. While I can fully understand the criticisms leveled, I like the piece well enough to consider seeking it out again in concert sometime. Yes, it's sprawling, a bit messy, and perhaps wears out its welcome (although I would never add the word "dull") but there is plenty of Gliere color to compensate.
--Bruce
Quote from: Sean on July 22, 2007, 04:09:29 AM
Sure thing Rabin: I don't know that one yet.
Try his harp concerto also.
I have to also confess to the guilty pleasure of repeatedly listening to Gliere's Third Symphony (I confess to having recordings by Downes, Fabermann, Johanos, Stokowski, Rakhlin, Rachmilovich and another one on Russian Disk+Ormandy on LP).
I even saw in concert a while back; not the performance at the London Proms as I was away but at the Barbican. I think it was the first performance in England of the complete work since 1911! I thought that it was magnificent in concert, especially the last movement.
Quote from: vandermolen on August 06, 2007, 01:16:01 PM
I confess to having recordings by Downes, Fabermann, Johanos, Stokowski, Rakhlin, Rachmilovich and another one on Russian Disk+Ormandy on LP
Which ones of these you like best?
Quote from: Drasko on August 06, 2007, 05:28:50 PM
Which ones of these you like best?
Rakhlin on Russian Disc is a great performance. The Faberman is the best recording (and it is now on Regis at budget price...two CDs with the Cello Concerto). The Russian Disc is difficult to track down, so I'd suggest the Faberman for anyone who wanted to investigate this sprawling, rambling (and yet oddly compulsive) score. The Downes on Chandos is also great.
Quote from: Sean on July 22, 2007, 04:09:29 AM
Sure thing Rabin: I don't know that one yet.
Sean ....... You've now had five (5) months to expose yourself to this piece ....... Have you done so?
Quote from: BachQ on December 21, 2007, 05:19:35 PMSean ....... You've now had five (5) months to expose yourself to this piece ....... Have you done so?
He's still pondering. ;) Am playing the Chandos recording of it at the moment, with the BBC Philharmonic under Downes. There's so much to enjoy.
Quote from: Christo on September 05, 2015, 08:36:52 AM
He's still pondering. ;) Am playing the Chandos recording of it at the moment, with the BBC Philharmonic under Downes. There's so much to enjoy.
One example: the "
Nachtmusik" nature of the second movement.
Quote from: Cato on September 05, 2015, 09:31:50 AMOne example: the "Nachtmusik" nature of the second movement.
Hadn't heard it this way, but you are right. What Gliere has to offer, is a lot of imagination - not dissimilar to that found in Rimsky-Korsakov or Tchaikovsky's Manfred Symphony, but also some that is more 'modern' and pointing towards Stravinsky's Firebird.
Il'ya Muromets is one of the most epic symphonies in the repertoire. A masterpiece in the heroic vein of Tchaikovsky's Manfred.
Two of the best recordings
[asin]B00HFDKTC4[/asin]
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/91tzcJwtbLL._SL1500_.jpg)
"Unless almost 59 minutes of Ilya Murometz are not enough for you, this performance and recording will knock your socks off." - Richard Kaplan, Fanfare
The excellent Japanese transfer is available from Arkivmusic:
http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/album.jsp?album_id=180374
Yes, the Ormandy on LP (never on CD :() was a revelation. If you can immerse yourself in the atmosphere of it it is great fun and moving towards the end.
Quote from: The new erato on July 22, 2007, 03:08:10 AM
Not a composer I will go out of my way to investigate further, unless there's a red hot recommendation somewhere.
Harp Concerto :)
Sorry, but how on earth did you find a thread that hasn't been active for 18 months, to quote a post that's nearly NINE YEARS old?! You must have plenty of time and patience on your hands.
Quote from: Maestro267 on March 02, 2017, 11:30:36 AM
Sorry, but how on earth did you find a thread that hasn't been active for 18 months, to quote a post that's nearly NINE YEARS old?! You must have plenty of time and patience on your hands.
Nearly 10 years old, you mean. 8)
Quote from: North Star on March 02, 2017, 11:48:38 AM
Nearly 10 years old, you mean. 8)
Wow, you're right! Even more bizarre then.
(Not bizarre that you're right, I hasten to add.)
Anyway, keeping on topic, recently I've really grown to love what I call the Epilogue of the symphony. After the massive climax, you get many of the symphony's major themes returning, in a more reflective and tragic state, leading to the most
achingly gorgeous B minor chord, with the violins starting off really high. It's just gut-wrenchingly beautiful and tragic.
Quote from: Maestro267 on March 02, 2017, 12:12:28 PM
Wow, you're right! Even more bizarre then.
(Not bizarre that you're right, I hasten to add.)
Anyway, keeping on topic, recently I've really grown to love what I call the Epilogue of the symphony. After the massive climax, you get many of the symphony's major themes returning, in a more reflective and tragic state, leading to the most achingly gorgeous B minor chord, with the violins starting off really high. It's just gut-wrenchingly beautiful and tragic.
I agree.
Quote from: Maestro267 on March 02, 2017, 12:12:28 PM
Wow, you're right! Even more bizarre then.
(Not bizarre that you're right, I hasten to add.)
Anyway, keeping on topic, recently I've really grown to love what I call the Epilogue of the symphony. After the massive climax, you get many of the symphony's major themes returning, in a more reflective and tragic state, leading to the most achingly gorgeous B minor chord, with the violins starting off really high. It's just gut-wrenchingly beautiful and tragic.
I think there is going to be a time when this piece will be rightfully hailed as a masterpiece without any reservations whatsoever. We are fortunate to have so many fine recordings.
Quote from: PerfectWagnerite on March 03, 2017, 07:26:05 AM
I think there is going to be a time when this piece will be rightfully hailed as a masterpiece without any reservations whatsoever. We are fortunate to have so many fine recordings.
It's not so much a masterpiece as a culmination of a style. Russian nationalism utilizing some of the elements of Orientalism (Balakirev's Islamey, Borodin's In the steps of central Asia, Scheherazade, Cui's Orientale, and other semi-historical/mythical legends, etc). I don't think the style was topped but that doesn't make this work a masterpiece. Just a culmination of an enjoyable stylistic direction. I very much enjoy the piece but I take it for what it is.