GMG Classical Music Forum

I almost didn't include the "Concert Romanesc", but I figured that I'd catch hell if I went through with that. Hey -- at least I didn't split up movements this time!

I vote for "Clocks and Clouds", "San Francisco Polyphony", and "Piano Concerto".

I'm sure that you all know what I'm rooting for ;).

Quote from: EigenUser on May 07, 2014, 05:52:57 PM
I almost didn't include the "Concert Romanesc", but I figured that I'd catch hell if I went through with that. Hey -- at least I didn't split up movements this time!

I vote for "Clocks and Clouds", "San Francisco Polyphony", and "Piano Concerto".

I'm sure that you all know what I'm rooting for ;).

Hold your horses! I screwed it up and allowed only one vote. It won't let me edit the allowed number of votes, so it looks like I have to start over...

EDIT: Fixed

And now... let the rumpus start!

Atmospheres, Lontano and Clocks & Clouds

Honorable mention to the double, piano and cello concertos

Quote from: EigenUser on May 07, 2014, 05:54:54 PM
Hold your horses! I screwed it up and allowed only one vote. It won't let me edit the allowed number of votes, so it looks like I have to start over...

EDIT: Fixed

And now... let the rumpus start!

Ahem. I notice the absence of a certain yellow fruit.

Quote from: Ken B on May 07, 2014, 06:12:24 PM
Ahem. I notice the absence of a certain yellow fruit.

"A Certain Yellow Fruit"? Never heard of it. Is it one of his earlier works?

Lontano, Clock & Clouds, and Melodien for me. Honorable mentions to San Francisco Polyphony, Requiem, and the concerti for violin and piano.

Quote from: James on May 07, 2014, 06:13:32 PM
Lots of great stuff here, with much to choose from .. but since I've been with this composer for a long time; I'll boil it down to my single favorite. Melodien

"Melodien" is amazing -- so many expressive individual lines that form a wonderful web of polyphonic sound. My purchase of that score a couple of months ago was one of the best purchases of my life ;D. Well, musical purchases, at least. It's great fun to follow along with while listening.

Quote from: Mirror Image on May 07, 2014, 06:16:27 PM
Lontano, Clock & Clouds, and Melodien for me. Honorable mentions to San Francisco Polyphony, Requiem, and the concerti for violin and piano.

If I were to expand this to my top five, I'd add "Melodien" and "Lontano". Then perhaps the chamber, violin, and horn concertos.

Just out of curiosity (it isn't exactly an orchestral work), what do you guys think of the "Aventures"?

Quote from: EigenUser on May 07, 2014, 06:20:51 PM
If I were to expand this to my top five, I'd add "Melodien" and "Lontano". Then perhaps the chamber, violin, and horn concertos.

Hmm, I haven't heard the Horn Concerto.
I'll have to revisit Ligeti before voting.

Where did you dig that signature quotation, btw?

I voted Melodien, Hamburg Concerto and Violin Concerto. I consider the Requiem a choral work, and more importantly, I didn't see it when I voted. :\

Kammerkonzert is currently in 5th place

Quote from: North Star on May 07, 2014, 11:49:11 PM
Hmm, I haven't heard the Horn Concerto.
I'll have to revisit Ligeti before voting.

Where did you dig that signature quotation, btw?

Here, start around 7:45 in the video and it will come up:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DEuUM6hAcDY

This video is really gold, from a music history perspective. Aside from writing wonderful music, it seems like Ligeti was a very kind and humble person. The interview is in two videos, and the first part is here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aNFq6HIlMEc

EDIT: The horn concerto is awesome! Pay attention for the brief, but engaging 3rd movement (begins at 4:20 in part I). African rhythms at 4:40! And, in the fourth movement (starts at 5:20), there is this melody at 7:35 that I swear sounds Caribbean-influenced!

In part II, listen for the 'lamento' motif that can be found in nearly all of his post-opera works (3:05). The end of the concerto is like a horror movie where the good guys don't escape. Scary.

http://www.youtube.com/v/OXWjayXSzcE http://www.youtube.com/v/KqVV_CUQzT4

Thanks for the links, the interview is very interesting. :)
Ahhh Hamburg Concerto! Of course I've heard it, it's in the Ligeti Project box I have. :)

C&C
M of M
VC,
though there's a couple compositions listed I haven't heard.  Yet.

San Francisco Polyphony, Atmospheres and the Requiem.  I really consider Lontano on that short list.

Perhaps these: Atmosphères, Lontano, and Clocks & Clouds. Or Requiem, San Francisco Polyphony, and Melodien.

I'm surprised that not too many people have voted. I thought that there were more Ligeti fans on GMG.

And, look who's winning so far!

Quote from: EigenUser on May 09, 2014, 04:26:21 AM
I'm surprised that not too many people have voted. I thought that there were more Ligeti fans on GMG.

And, look who's winning so far!

9 people voted and there are not many active members.  This is a huge turnout.  If you want way more then leave it open for like five years. ;D

Quote from: EigenUser on May 07, 2014, 06:20:51 PM
Just out of curiosity (it isn't exactly an orchestral work), what do you guys think of the "Aventures"?

I don't think it (& Nouvelles Aventures) have dated particularly well. They're amongst the Ligeti I listen to least often.

My choices from the list: Lontano, Requiem and the Violin Concerto.

Lontano, Clocks & Clouds, and the Violin Concerto are locked into a dead heat right now with four votes each.

Quote from: Mirror Image on May 09, 2014, 04:40:32 AM
Lontano, Clocks & Clouds, and the Violin Concerto are locked into a dead heat right now with four votes each.

Oh my god -- and "Atmospheres". I'm going to have a fit if that one wins. I mean, it's okay, but it gets so much attention!

Quote from: edward on May 09, 2014, 04:40:25 AM
I don't think it (& Nouvelles Aventures) have dated particularly well. They're amongst the Ligeti I listen to least often.

Yes, I don't really care for them. A good video performance can be quite amusing to watch, but that's about it.

Quote from: DavidW on May 09, 2014, 04:36:05 AM
9 people voted and there are not many active members.  This is a huge turnout.  If you want way more then leave it open for like five years. ;D

But the Debussy poll got 22 votes!!!

Of course, Ligeti isn't as popular as Debussy...

Quote from: EigenUser on May 09, 2014, 04:48:42 AM
But the Debussy poll got 22 votes!!!

Probably someone registered and voted ten times over! :P

Quote from: EigenUser on May 09, 2014, 04:48:42 AM
Oh my god -- and "Atmospheres". I'm going to have a fit if that one wins. I mean, it's okay, but it gets so much attention!

Lesson no. 1 for aspiring composers: give your works cool names.

Quote from: North Star on May 09, 2014, 05:47:38 AM
Lesson no. 1 for aspiring composers: give your works cool names.

Indeed. Names can make a surprising difference (as to whether this phenomenon is good is debatable). I read somewhere that John Adams originally called wrote this piece called "Wave-Maker" and it wasn't well-received. Then he renamed it. Now it is "Shaker Loops", which is one of his most well-known works. Imagine what would happen if Debussy called "La Mer" something like "The Planets". Would it be well-received even though the music remains the same? Probably not. Then again, many critics didn't think it sounded like the sea. One said something like "we expected the sea, but all we got was some agitated water in a saucer". :laugh:

I think that "Clocks and Clouds" is a much cooler name than "Atmospheres", though. As mystic as the music itself.

Requiem
Atomspheres
Chamber Concerto

Quote from: EigenUser on May 09, 2014, 06:54:59 AM
Indeed. Names can make a surprising difference (as to whether this phenomenon is good is debatable).

The phenomenon is certainly not good for art of any kind. But it is also something that can't be changed.

QuoteI read somewhere that John Adams originally called wrote this piece called "Wave-Maker" and it wasn't well-received. Then he renamed it. Now it is "Shaker Loops", which is one of his most well-known works. Imagine what would happen if Debussy called "La Mer" something like "The Planets". Would it be well-received even though the music remains the same? Probably not. Then again, many critics didn't think it sounded like the sea. One said something like "we expected the sea, but all we got was some agitated water in a saucer". :laugh:

Better yet, what if Debussy had called it Eroica or Le sacre du printemps?!  :laugh:

QuoteI think that "Clocks and Clouds" is a much cooler name than "Atmospheres", though. As mystic as the music itself.

Well, those are both cool names.

Atmosphères, Lontano and the Chamber Concerto (though I don't think the latter counts as 'orchestral'--the subtitle for 13 instrumentalists makes it clearly an ensemble piece--but since it is my all-time Ligeti favorite I had to vote for it).

Quote from: petrarch on May 09, 2014, 01:21:30 PM
Atmosphères, Lontano and the Chamber Concerto (though I don't think the latter counts as 'orchestral'--the subtitle for 13 instrumentalists makes it clearly an ensemble piece--but since it is my all-time Ligeti favorite I had to vote for it).

Yes, I almost didn't put it in because of the title. However, it does call for a conductor and it is listed under the "orchestral works" scores on Schott (the publisher).

Quote from: EigenUser on May 09, 2014, 02:15:35 PM
Yes, I almost didn't put it in because of the title. However, it does call for a conductor and it is listed under the "orchestral works" scores on Schott (the publisher).

Seems to me that the title itself (Chamber Concerto) contradicts the classification of the publisher :).

Lontano, Atmospheres, Violin Concerto

NOOOOO!!! "Atmospheres" is winning  >:( :'(.

For some reason I'm glad that no one picked the "Concert Romanesc", even though I like it.

It's sad that no one picked "Ramifications". I'm really starting to love that piece, even though I didn't at first.

That reminds me.....I haven't voted yet. >:D >:D >:D

In truth,  I can't say I like anything by Ligeti for large scale forces except Con. Rom.   There's enough in them that I keep coming back to grapple with them, but not yet enough to crack what is for me a very tough nut.

Quote from: Jeffrey Smith on May 09, 2014, 05:30:53 PM
That reminds me.....I haven't voted yet. >:D >:D >:D

In truth,  I can't say I like anything by Ligeti for large scale forces except Con. Rom.   There's enough in them that I keep coming back to grapple with them, but not yet enough to crack what is for me a very tough nut.

Have you heard his "Clocks and Clouds"? For me that was the easiest to listen to while I was warming up to his music, and it remains my favorite. This is the kind of music to listen to while stargazing, pondering the meaning of life. Not that I do this, mind you :P. But, if I did, it would be while listening to "Clocks and Clouds". Works like the PC, on the other hand, can be a bit trickier because there is so much going on at once. Buying the score helped greatly.

Then there are works like the "Cello Concerto" and "Apparitions" -- the ones I still haven't figured out yet.

I'm not surprised Atmospheres is winning. It's a great piece despite it's popularity.

Quote from: Jeffrey Smith on May 09, 2014, 05:30:53 PM
That reminds me.....I haven't voted yet. >:D >:D >:D

In truth,  I can't say I like anything by Ligeti for large scale forces except Con. Rom.   There's enough in them that I keep coming back to grapple with them, but not yet enough to crack what is for me a very tough nut.

Violin Concerto, perhaps? It's almost a conspectus of his late style and reuses some material from earlier chamber works.

Quote from: James on May 09, 2014, 06:06:59 PM
It's good that you try to stretch your ears like this .. when it clicks and you hear it, you'll open a new door and never look back!

+1

Quote from: edward on May 09, 2014, 06:24:00 PM
Violin Concerto, perhaps? It's almost a conspectus of his late style and reuses some material from earlier chamber works.

Yes, that's a good one. Even my mom likes the Ligeti VC! ;D I used to like it more, but I don't listen to it as much as his other works. The first movement is so beautiful, though. It shimmers like a dangerously thin plate of glass under a light. The recording on Clear or Cloudy is by far the best I've heard. In fact, I don't think I'd like the piece too much if that recording didn't exist. It is the only recording where the out of tune instruments actually seem to sound beautiful instead of just, well, out of tune. And in the 5th movement, that whip-crack should be terrifyingly loud and should seem to "ignite" the flurry of snap-pizzicato that follows in the cellos/bass. The Clear or Cloudy version does this the best.

I've said before that I'm not particularly picky about recordings. But when it is concerning music that I truly love and know well, I can be picky to the point of absurdity ;). It's gotten so bad that I actually made a playlist for the Bartok PCs where I actually mix movements/performers (sacrilege, I know).

You should hear Patricia Kopatchinskaja in Ligeti's VC, Nate. The best performance I've heard of this masterwork.

Geez, I seem to have lost the VC...  :'(

Atmosphères, Lontano, Violin Concerto. I've heard Christian Tetzlaff live several times in the latter, doing a fabulous job in the cadenza, mimicking the sound of the ocarinas in the piece.

--Bruce

Quote from: Mirror Image on May 10, 2014, 08:15:31 AM
You should hear Patricia Kopatchinskaja in Ligeti's VC, Nate. The best performance I've heard of this masterwork.

I heard samples from a few movements. I didn't like it quite as much as the Clear or Cloudy with Gawriloff, but I was enjoying it. Then I heard the whip-crack in the fifth movement. LAME!!! I want that part to scare me half to death when I hear it, but I didn't even hear it at all in the Kopatchinskaja!

Of course, it is silly to disregard an entire recording for one little thing like that, and I'm not -- it was very good. That just happens to be my favorite part in the piece so I am naturally drawn to noticing it. In fact, here it is, as Ligeti wrote it 8) :
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/s/xdu5wjf518tvxl0/LigetiVC_Whip-crack.jpg)

And here is the Gawriloff (skip to 1:15 in the video):
http://www.youtube.com/v/QzhAzaQQGkM
Literally, it ignites the "tutta la forza" woodwind fourth and the flurry of Bartok-pizzicato that follows.

Quote from: EigenUser on May 10, 2014, 05:48:04 PM
I heard samples from a few movements. I didn't like it quite as much as the Clear or Cloudy with Gawriloff, but I was enjoying it. Then I heard the whip-crack in the fifth movement. LAME!!! I want that part to scare me half to death when I hear it, but I didn't even hear it at all in the Kopatchinskaja!

Of course, it is silly to disregard an entire recording for one little thing like that, and I'm not -- it was very good. That just happens to be my favorite part in the piece so I am naturally drawn to noticing it. In fact, here it is, as Ligeti wrote it 8) :
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/s/xdu5wjf518tvxl0/LigetiVC_Whip-crack.jpg)

And here is the Gawriloff (skip to 1:15 in the video):
http://www.youtube.com/v/QzhAzaQQGkM
Literally, it ignites the "tutta la forza" woodwind fourth and the flurry of Bartok-pizzicato that follows.

You feel about the whip crack in Ligeti's VC like I feel about the timpani roll in the Largo movement of Shostakovich's Symphony No. 5. If it's not earth-shattering, then I'm immediately disappointed and nothing that follows will give me the kind of gratification I get from Lenny's Live in Japan performance with the NY Philharmonic.

Quote from: Mirror Image on May 10, 2014, 05:59:52 PM
You feel about the whip crack in Ligeti's VC like I feel about the timpani roll in the Largo movement of Shostakovich's Symphony No. 5. If it's not earth-shattering, then I'm immediately disappointed and nothing that follows will give me the kind of gratification I get from Lenny's Live in Japan performance with the NY Philharmonic.

Haha, I think that everyone has their little "things" or "landmarks" that they listen to for judging recordings. I'm not a huge Shostakovich fan, but what about that drumroll connecting the third and fourth movements of the 1st symphony? It has to start imperceptibly, last for a long time, and crescendo to the threshold of pain!

Quote from: EigenUser on May 10, 2014, 06:03:09 PM
Haha, I think that everyone has their little "things" or "landmarks" that they listen to for judging recordings. I'm not a huge Shostakovich fan, but what about that drumroll connecting the third and fourth movements of the 1st symphony? It has to start imperceptibly, last for a long time, and crescendo to the threshold of pain!

8)

Don't remember the drum roll, but, then again, I haven't spent too much time with Shostakovich's Symphony No. 1 either, so I suppose I need to re-listen for myself at any rate.

Quote from: Mirror Image on May 10, 2014, 06:10:05 PM
8)

Don't remember the drum roll, but, then again, I don't spent any time with Shostakovich

FTFY John.
??? :'(

Quote from: Ken B on May 10, 2014, 06:12:25 PM
FTFY John.
??? :'(

Haha. This of course isn't true at all as I've plenty of 'Shostakovich phases.' Some have lasted longer than others of course. He's one of my favorite composers after all.

Quote from: Ken B on May 10, 2014, 06:12:25 PM
Don't remember the drum roll, but, then again, I don't spent any time with Shostakovich

Really? You are missing out. We go bowling every Thursday night! 8)

Quote from: EigenUser on May 10, 2014, 08:10:16 PM
Really? You are missing out. We go bowling every Thursday night! 8)

That's what I used to do with Schubert.

Quote from: Brewski on May 10, 2014, 10:06:55 AM
Atmosphères, Lontano, Violin Concerto. I've heard Christian Tetzlaff live several times in the latter, doing a fabulous job in the cadenza, mimicking the sound of the ocarinas in the piece.

--Bruce

I wish Tetzlaff had recorded the piece. The live performances I've heard with him have been sensational.

  I voted for the Chamber Concerto only, not because the others are worse or I don't enjoy them ( I do ), but because that one speaks to me head and shoulders more than the rest of his orchestral output ( though I must admit, I've not listened to the Double Concerto ). There's an intense intimacy to it, a clarity of line that one doesn't always get with Ligeti. There's a version with Mälkki at the helm I keep returning to.

Quote from: Fagotterdämmerung on December 06, 2014, 01:12:17 PM
  I voted for the Chamber Concerto only, not because the others are worse or I don't enjoy them ( I do ), but because that one speaks to me head and shoulders more than the rest of his orchestral output ( though I must admit, I've not listened to the Double Concerto ). There's an intense intimacy to it, a clarity of line that one doesn't always get with Ligeti. There's a version with Mälkki at the helm I keep returning to.

Interesting. I find Melodien to have a more intimate feel (even though it is scored for a slightly larger ensemble). I love both.

Then, in the similar style, there's always the sprawling (and almost romantic) San Francisco Polyphony -- WHICH, I haven't heard in a long time. Maybe tomorrow I'll give it a listen.