All I have currently is Slava/Ozawa (DSCH 1/ PRKFV- Erato) and Schiff (DSCH 1-2- Philips). I used to have the Ondine with the PRKFV and Merikanto, recalling maybe good things concerning the PRKFV.
I do not have Slava/EMI handy,...
I am curious about the two young ladies (more about that later!)- Chinese(?) on EMI and 'Sol' on SONY. Sol has the longest timings of anyone, with the Moderato clocking in under 15 minutes! Here I have Slava/Ozawa clocking in at an equally eye popping 9:59, the quickest by far of any of the fifteen odd issues I checked. Most come in between 11 and 12.5. Frankly, here the Sol beguiles me with, What's she going to do there?. What do you say?
No one seems to get below 6:00 in the opening Allegretto. Schiff seems a bit polite to me; Slava/Ozawa seem just about right, but I'd like even more more more!! Not much I can tell from samples, and everyone seems dogmatically in the same time range.
I have by no means moved on to DSCH 2. Curious how Slava/Ozawa fare here (is the sound better than Erato? for one). There are really an incredible amount of No.2s now, since Schiff's pioneering disc in 1984. Just off the top of my head:
Slava/Ozawa (DG)
Maisky (DG)
Mork (Virgin)
Mork (Ondine)
Gutman (RCA)
Kliegel (Naxos)
Thedeen (BIS)
Slava (RussianDisc)
Wispelway (Channel)
Schiff (Philips)
Helmerson (Chandos)
Ivashkin (Brilliant?)
other cellist with Maxim Sch. (XXX)
cellist (Arts)
I have nothing to compare Schiff to, but I do believe it fares better than No.1. So, where are the Collectors?
And, btw- Slava/Ozawa in the PRKFV have always seemed fine (I kept it and sold that Ondine with the two Finnish boys on the cover), but I'm sure the sound is a bit raw, and it seems Slava sticks out a bit? There are quite a few of the PRKFV on record. One that caught my eye was the Chinese(?) girl on EMI (same as the DSCH?)
Anyhow, if this Thread already exists, please morph.
I think Slava Ozawa is one of the very best records ever made. I agree about Schiff. Still, his 1 and 2 are both excellent. Just not in the same league as the S/O.
Quote from: snyprrr on May 09, 2014, 01:17:34 PM
And, btw- Slava/Ozawa in the PRKFV have always seemed fine (I kept it and sold that Ondine with the two Finnish boys on the cover), but I'm sure the sound is a bit raw, and it seems Slava sticks out a bit? There are quite a few of the PRKFV on record. One that caught my eye was the Chinese(?) girl on EMI (same as the DSCH?)
Do you mean Han-Na Chang?
(http://photos.imageevent.com/sgtrock/aug11/proksinfoniachang.jpg)
She's South Korean. For what it's worth, Rostropovich said her performance of Prok op.125 was better than his. I love it. Try it.
Sarge
I think the Rostropovich version of the Shostakovich 1 that you want -- for the white hot live performance, though not the mono sound, which is listenable enough -- is the one with Oistrakh. This has been reissued several times on various labels. I have it on Russian Revelation. Here it is on Yedang Classics:
[asin]B0002DRD5A[/asin]
The one with Ormandy is still my all around favorite for performance and recording.
[asin]B000G7PNL8[/asin]
Quote from: Ken B on May 09, 2014, 03:33:52 PM
I think Slava Ozawa is one of the very best records ever made. I agree about Schiff. Still, his 1 and 2 are both excellent. Just not in the same league as the S/O.
A lot of others take the ;last movement just a hair to slow- only S/O, Schiff, Chang, and a few others keep it below 4:30.
No one heard the 'Sol' on SONY? Just some intriguing timings...
Quote from: Sergeant Rock on May 09, 2014, 03:57:13 PM
Do you mean Han-Na Chang?
(http://photos.imageevent.com/sgtrock/aug11/proksinfoniachang.jpg)
She's South Korean. For what it's worth, Rostropovich said her performance of Prok op.125 was better than his. I love it. Try it.
Sarge
Yea, her DSCH 1 has gotten some raves- still I'm curious about that 'Sol'...
as far as the 'Concertante', yea, she seems to top the heap
The Erato, though, is rising in stature as i compare amongst the brethren.
Quote from: Daverz on May 09, 2014, 04:28:01 PM
I think the Rostropovich version of the Shostakovich 1 that you want -- for the white hot live performance, though not the mono sound, which is listenable enough -- is the one with Oistrakh. This has been reissued several times on various labels. I have it on Russian Revelation. Here it is on Yedang Classics:
[asin]B0002DRD5A[/asin]
The one with Ormandy is still my all around favorite for performance and recording.
[asin]B000G7PNL8[/asin]
Quote from: Daverz on May 09, 2014, 04:28:01 PM
I think the Rostropovich version of the Shostakovich 1 that you want -- for the white hot live performance, though not the mono sound, which is listenable enough -- is the one with Oistrakh. This has been reissued several times on various labels. I have it on Russian Revelation. Here it is on Yedang Classics:
[asin]B0002DRD5A[/asin]
The one with Ormandy is still my all around favorite for performance and recording.
[asin]B000G7PNL8[/asin]
I do need 'sound' at this point. Ozawa's still pretty good overall...mm...
I forgot to mention Franz Helm. on Chandos and Ivashkin on Brilliant (I think). Haven't heard Ivashkin, but I can't imagine it's not good. I remember the Wallfisch...
I recommend an encounter with the original Prokofiev Cello Concerto (the version from the 1930s). It's a fascinating piece, if rather unidiomatically written for the soloist. Unfortunately most of the early recordings of it were cut, but fortunately the late Alexander Ivashkin made a superb recording a while back:
[asin]B00005A8EJ[/asin]
And for comparison, Ivashkin in the final version of the work, the Symphony-Concerto (coupled with a very good 2nd symphony):
[asin]B000068PVO[/asin]
And for further reading on the matter, Ivashkin (once again) is superbly enlightening:
http://www.alexanderivashkin.com/08publications_three_oranges2009_prokofiev.html
I'll second Ken's recommendation of the Rostropovich/Ozawa DSCH 2nd. An absolutely great performance of what is--by a long way--my favourite DSCH concerto.
I actually like the Naxos Symphony-Concerto better than any of the competition I've heard to date.
Only have 1 recording each of the Shosties (Ma/Ormandy in 1, Gabetta/Albrecht in 2—haven't listened to either one in a long time, either) so can't offer any insight there.
i can't comment on the prokofiev [heard it last about 10 yrs ago]
on the shosties: helmerson for the world-is-ending approach. sol gabetta is a very fine, delineated, slow burn reading. my favorite is bertrand. seems to me the best combination of everything i want in this music.
Quote from: xochitl on May 10, 2014, 12:16:48 AM
i can't comment on the prokofiev [heard it last about 10 yrs ago]
on the shosties: helmerson for the world-is-ending approach. sol gabetta is a very fine, delineated, slow burn reading. my favorite is bertrand. seems to me the best combination of everything i want in this music.
wow, certainly pushing my buttons... Helmerson, eh?,... I remember him from the BIS days,- I was surprised that he got the Chandos nod, and not Ivashkin (must have been licensing issues?). Gabetta really tempts with the timings, which you confirm contain the 'slow burn', yummy!
I just forget how advanced Shosty's VC2 and CC2 are- I can't recall anything at the moment. But especially CC2-...
Quote from: Ken B on May 09, 2014, 03:33:52 PM
I think Slava Ozawa is one of the very best records ever made. I agree about Schiff. Still, his 1 and 2 are both excellent. Just not in the same league as the S/O.
1) Found Slava/Ozawa 2 (DG) on that 2cd cheapie (haven't heard yet). Slava/Ozawa 1 (Erato) is growing on me. The accompaniment is as obtuse as I though- detail is readily available, it's just that Slava is nicely centered.
2) I was considering the Han-Ne(?) EMI which is on another 2cd cheapie, yolked with a hodge-podge of Jansson's Shostakovich, and things. However, I didn't like the samples of Sarah Chang's VC1- can anyone detail her performance for me? How is Jansson's Shosty?
3) I think I have to try that slow burn Gabetta in CC1.
4) Anyone have Ivashkin/Polyansky (Brilliant- was this originally on Chandos?? do they have THREE Cycles of CCs???)
Quote from: snyprrr on May 21, 2014, 07:59:45 AM
Slava/Ozawa 1 (Erato) is growing on me. The accompaniment is as obtuse as I though- detail is readily available, it's just that Slava is nicely centered.
Aye, I do like that one.
there's a live Gabetta on youtube that's even more intense btw
Comparing Schiff(Philips) and Slava/Ozawa (DG) in No.2
Slava is just that much more secure, and has quite a nice, fat tone. Still, Schiff is a contender, though sometimes I'm just not sure how I like his wiry intensity.
The DG is not as perfect as the Philips (which is absolutely perfect, imo), sounding a bit like the Ozawa conducted First CC on Erato: somewhat opaque, but with detail showing through. With the Philips, you hear all the highs from the piccolos and such- it really is an sweet sweet recording. Still Ozawa is a much better conductor than Maxim here, simply making me wish that the whole DG performance had the Philips sound. Ozawa gets some nice, fruity tones from the winds. But, detail like the harp are brought out much better in the Philips.
Musically, there's not much difference in the two approaches. Timings are well nigh the same. Memories of the Philips were not totally obliterated by this DG. Schiff is still a contender in the search for a definitive No.2. These two recordings I'm going to have to split the difference and only slightly give the nod to Slava/Ozawa, though I will by no means be discounting the Schiff at all (in the listening department).
That Gabetta... come to me...
Gabetta/Maazel (SONY)
Yea, this performance of CC1, slowest out there, really digs in! Gabetta has a nice big fat furry tone that sounds just like a Bureau Commissar. All the milking pays dividends as the whole feeling becomes just that much more entrenched, very impish, trollish. Frankly, since the Ozawa, it's just nice to hear the snarling brass for a change! Anyhow, Ladyfingers does a great job- me likey! At least she secures herself a place with the most milked out performance, and that's a good thing here- savour every second!
Truls Mork in the Prokofiev (Virgin)
He's got a thin little wiry tone this one? Once again I nearly threw the CD across the room from the FIRST ENTRANCE! Boy, some people ruin for me from the outset.
Fine as everything is, I need a bigger, meatier cello tone Truls. Sorry, you go in ThePile.
Quote from: snyprrr on June 25, 2014, 07:25:45 AM
Gabetta/Maazel (SONY)
Yea, this performance of CC1, slowest out there, really digs in! Gabetta has a nice big fat furry tone that sounds just like a Bureau Commissar. All the milking pays dividends as the whole feeling becomes just that much more entrenched, very impish, trollish. Frankly, since the Ozawa, it's just nice to hear the snarling brass for a change! Anyhow, Ladyfingers does a great job- me likey! At least she secures herself a place with the most milked out performance, and that's a good thing here- savour every second!
I just ordered it--out of curiosity to hear a previously unknown cellist to me, and out of respect for the late Lorin Maazel.
Sinfonia Concertante (Wallfisch/Jarvi)
I think I'm starting to hear what vandermolen was saying about this music.
Anyhow, though Jarvi conducts well (sounding no different that anyone else here), the Chandos BoomBoom is a little much for me here, and Wallfisch just doesn't match Rostropovich (Ozawa) stroke for stroke. perhaps Rosty is a little more forward, which helps- Wallfisch is a bit in the mix. The bottom line is that Wallfisch does not displace Rosty/Ozawa- it was recorded a year before the Ozawa- maybe Rosty heard it and wanted to out do Wallfisch? Either way, I will try the little girl on EMI, but if that doesn't work out, I'll just stick with the Ozawa,- the only real problem there is that the - well, there's no real problem,- I'd just like to hear the orchestra a touch more.
Quote from: xochitl on May 21, 2014, 09:24:07 PM
there's a live Gabetta on youtube that's even more intense btw
There are two. The more recent performance (2013, Kalmar conducting) is really very assured, she's right on top of this music. Unfortunately the accompaniment seems a bit routine to me, and there's a lot of coughing from the audience.
The earlier performance (2011, Valcuha) is slower but she's not so note-perfect by any means.
I haven't heard her recording with Maazel R.I.P - and really, nothing can replace Rostropovich/Ormandy.
Quote from: aukhawk on July 17, 2014, 05:00:29 AM
The earlier performance (2011, Valcuha) is slower but she's not so note-perfect by any means.
I haven't heard her recording with Maazel R.I.P - and really, nothing can replace Rostropovich/Ormandy.
Not replace it, I agree, but Gabetta/Maazel is a great alternative. The first movement is so different--slow and lugubrious--that it makes fascinating listening. I've not heard another performance like it.
Sarge
Quote from: Sergeant Rock on May 09, 2014, 03:57:13 PM
Do you mean Han-Na Chang?
(http://photos.imageevent.com/sgtrock/aug11/proksinfoniachang.jpg)
She's South Korean. For what it's worth, Rostropovich said her performance of Prok op.125 was better than his. I love it. Try it.
Sarge
The first performance I've heard of Prokofiev's op.125 and never felt the need to hear another performance since I couldn't imagine another one actually being better.
Quote from: Greg on July 17, 2014, 06:26:49 AM
The first performance I've heard of Prokofiev's op.125 and never felt the need to hear another performance since I couldn't imagine another one actually being better.
Hopefully to arrive by the weekend.
I've spent waaay to much effort on this piece! Sure, it's a Cello Symphony, but,... mm,... I'm starting to think the world doesn't need Cello Symphonies. I mean, this one DOES go on for a good long while.
I KNOW- it IS "Perfect Music"- but- but- it DOES go on.
All I can say is, when someone DOESN'T get it with total confidence and fire, it tends to make the piece suck. So far, only Rosty has convinced me, and I'm hoping Miss Landyfingers will put my 'Ozawa' problem to rest. (not Ozawa, maybe the engineers)
Ivashkin is very good here.
Quote from: karlhenning on July 17, 2014, 09:10:51 AM
Ivashkin is very good here.
I think so, too. Nothing against Chang, though.
I've not heard Chang, so I could not say, friend :)
Quote from: karlhenning on July 17, 2014, 09:10:51 AM
Ivashkin is very good here.
Yes, actually, with a contending No.2- right- forgot about Ivashkin (I picked Wallfisch over him, but that recording is swampy and Wallfisch falls to Rosty's focused determination and sheer thwack!)
just heard the rospropovich/rozhdestvensky mono recording that came with a mostly britten disc and am quite gasping for breath. have seldom encountered this level of intensity/depth/energy/flash of the moment.
i'm ready to disown all my previous recommendations. you only run into something this alive very few times along the path!
Quote from: xochitl on September 11, 2014, 11:33:55 PM
just heard the rospropovich/rozhdestvensky mono recording that came with a mostly britten disc and am quite gasping for breath. have seldom encountered this level of intensity/depth/energy/flash of the moment.
i'm ready to disown all my previous recommendations. you only run into something this alive very few times along the path!
wait... is that the one in 'The Russian Years' Box? I believe it is. (it's with Britten in the Box)
My whole point here was to try to get a modern version that lived up to the earlier ones. Obviously, the sound isn't so great, so--- well, I just need the orchestra there. The Rosty/Ozawa has an odd, veiled orchestra that only works when you really crank it up.
I still haven't heard Rosty/Sargeant (w/Myaskovsky), though the samples are promising.
Other than Ivashkin, I've tried most all of the modern competition and am utterly underwhelmed. I can't even get beyond the first note of most players (sorry- they at least need to follow Rosty here- they just sound soooo weak). I'm feeling a bit scorched by all the bad picks I've made- the Korean gal did nothing for me.
I just feel this music NEEDS modern sound- the orchestra music is so Hollywood- how can I possible "hear" it in some old guise? I can't.
I will have to get that Box back from the library... I don't remember it being soooo much better than the Ozawa- do you have both? If your pick IS the Best- well, aye- that's not good. :(
oh, I had forgotten about this and now you bring it up--- am I going to have to buyBuyBUY MORE?!?!?!?! >:D
buyBuyBUY!!
Quote from: snyprrr on September 12, 2014, 07:12:54 AMI'm feeling a bit scorched by all the bad picks I've made- the Korean gal did nothing for me.
If
she did nothing for you, I doubt anyone else can either. Time to give up?
Sarge
ive heard a few slavas but not the one with ozawa
and the cd it comes in is this one: (http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2004/May04/Rostropovich_5628272_CC.jpg)
Quote from: xochitl on September 13, 2014, 03:13:14 PM
ive heard a few slavas but not the one with ozawa
and the cd it comes in is this one: (http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2004/May04/Rostropovich_5628272_CC.jpg)
I'm pretty sure that's the one from the Box. yea
Quote from: Sergeant Rock on September 13, 2014, 09:17:13 AM
If she did nothing for you, I doubt anyone else can either. Time to give up?
Sarge
I'd give Ivashkin a shot,... if I reeeally felt like punishing myself I'd get the Sargeant. Karl likes Ivashkin and I can '("see")' it working- but, I "saw" the others working for me too. mm :(
Again, I'm just hung up on that first note. No one seems to have whatever Rosty has,... or something.
Yea, I think Cello Concertos I can get kind of persnickety on--- this one in particular has rubbed me the wrong way from day one!! haha Maybe it sounds too much like 'Classic Rock' for me?
I have no problem with anyone's Myaskovsky, so what gives? I think it's because the Prokofiev is SO cello dominated- and so Rosty dominated too.
mm... eh
Quote from: karlhenning on July 17, 2014, 09:10:51 AM
Ivashkin is very good here.
Quote from: Sergeant Rock on September 13, 2014, 09:17:13 AM
If she did nothing for you, I doubt anyone else can either. Time to give up?
Sarge
I got Ivashkin in the mail, and so it was time for the Final Prokofiev Roundup:
Rostropovich.Ozawa (Erato)
Chang (EMI)
Ivashkin (Chandos)
Mork (Virgin)
Wallfisch (Chandos)
I read over my previous comments, all bad.
So, I noticed that Ivashkin is slower than all, by a large margin. And, from the first notes, one hears a difference in the 1st. Gone is the quirkiness, and, Hello, Nobility! OK, so, on to the all important first note.
OK
OK, Ivashkin's a keeper in the first note. He's playing with the slowest tempi, but he keeps all the chops required. In context of the performance, e=verything comes together in the Hollywood manner I'd hoped for. My only slight criticism is I'd have liked the cello just one small hair up front more, though, the current positioning is as good as it gets and I'm not going to kvetch.
So, how is the competition this time around?
1) I just don't like the sound of the Rosty/Ozawa. I'm glad there is Ivashkin, though Ivashkin doesn't play "demonically".
2) Mork is still thin and wiry- ugh.
3) Wallfisch still didn't impress- trashcan-
4) WAIT! The EMI recording sounds great from the first note,- but I read how Chang didn't impress me- and this time she seemed a bit too demonic for me, but, the recording began winning me over, and by the 2nd she had me hooked and I realized I could give up the Rosty/Ozawa.
FINAL ANSWER:So, the Chang is fast and furious, and the Ivashkin is noble and grand. Since we don't have the perfect marriage of these two, these two then have become my single pick I gave Chang a second chance, and was impressed. Ultimately I might pick her over Ivashkin, though, in context, Ivashkin sounds just as good (or, "sounds" better), he's just not playing in the demoinic style. It's a toss up, but I think you should have both for a grand comparison!
I had the Rostropovich/Osawa CD and I just got this hires version Isserlis/Jarvi of these concertos - very nice also -