GMG Classical Music Forum

Thoughts?  Just bought the first cycle but am more familiar with the second

The 80s.  My favorite Sixth and possibly my favorite Second, with everything else top flight, except for the Fourth, and then only for the final movement.

Incidentally, he recorded three cycles, if you count the video cycle from the 70s.

Thoughts?

(http://www.clker.com/cliparts/J/h/N/S/V/E/cancel-button-png-hi.png)

The DG by a small margin.  But the Sony/Columbia is nothing to sneeze at.

The second.  It has great recordings of 3, 5, 6 and 9.  I'm no longer interested in the first cycle, I think that he just zips through to the end over and over.  A good third symphony though.  The first cycle doesn't have the nuance, depth and raw emotional power of the second cycle.

Columbia/Sony 3, 4, 7, 9
DG 1, 2, 6, 8

I don't like any of his Fifths

Banana gets the vote.

Sarge

The original album covers of the Sony cycle are very cool

(http://www.cdbiblio.com/eingang/cdimages/img_mahler/mahler0116.jpg)

(http://thumbs3.ebaystatic.com/d/l225/m/msbnG9HgGXF8Vmk-W1AaYrA.jpg)

#2 (CD). I also have the video one, which is not as good as the CD. It is better when you watch and listen but, if you listen without watching it loses some of its appeal.

Quote from: DavidW on July 31, 2014, 05:20:17 AM
I'm no longer interested in the first cycle, I think that he just zips through to the end over and over.

I've read a lot of criticisms of Bernstein but I think "just zips through to the end" is a new one.

I'm abstaining from the vote since the only DGs I've heard are 1 and 5. I do like the Sony set a lot, except for 5, and the DG isn't among my favorite 5s either.

well there is Barbirolli  for 5, don't need any other pre-digital recordings

Sony. [asin]B005SJIP1E[/asin]

The only M6, M9, and M10 (adagio only) I ever really listen to. If I put another M6 or M9 on, for, oh, say, diversity's sake, I invariably switch to LB's CBS version.

Favorite M1, M3, and M8, though I can, and do, listen to others.

M7 tied with DG version.

Excellent M2, but I like the DG M2 more.

I never listen to this M4 or M5, but I don't like the DG versions, either. Nevertheless, I own all of Bernstein's DG Mahler except M8.

I must be the only one who loves the DG version of the 4th with the boy soprano - both the symphony and the recording are underrated IMO

Almost chose "banana", but I will place my vote on Sony...     >:D

What is "banana"?

Quote from: Jay F on July 31, 2014, 01:17:51 PM
What is "banana"?

http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/go_bananas (http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/go_bananas) 
a nonsense option..

Quote from: Moonfish on July 31, 2014, 01:20:56 PM
http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/go_bananas (http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/go_bananas) 
a nonsense option..

Thanks, Moonfish.

Quote from: Moonfish on July 31, 2014, 01:20:56 PM
http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/go_bananas (http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/go_bananas) 
a nonsense option..

Therefore this poll has three bananas.

>:D

Quote from: bwv 1080 on July 31, 2014, 11:35:57 AM
I must be the only one who loves the DG version of the 4th with the boy soprano - both the symphony and the recording are underrated IMO

Not sure I love it but I think the boy soprano did a better job than people give him credit for.

Quote from: Jeffrey Smith on July 31, 2014, 07:33:46 PM
Not sure I love it but I think the boy soprano did a better job than people give him credit for.

At a guess, much of the displeasure can be discounted as Resistance Against the Unfamiliar....

Quote from: Pat B on July 31, 2014, 08:08:43 AM
I've read a lot of criticisms of Bernstein but I think "just zips through to the end" is a new one.

Really?  Because I posted the exact same opinion a few years ago.  Well now that opinion will no longer be new to you. :D

Quote from: karlhenning on August 01, 2014, 01:57:31 AM
At a guess, much of the displeasure can be discounted as Resistance Against the Unfamiliar....

I'm familiar with boy sopranos and...familiarity breeds contempt  ;D

Sarge

Karl are you secretly defending that Harnoncourt/Leonhardt Bach Cantata purchase again? :laugh:

Quote from: DavidW on August 01, 2014, 07:02:14 AM
Karl are you secretly defending that Harnoncourt/Leonhardt Bach Cantata purchase again? :laugh:

Quote from: Sergeant Rock on August 01, 2014, 06:57:35 AM
I'm familiar with boy sopranos and...familiarity breeds contempt  ;D

Sarge

Hah! x 2

btw my favorite 60s Mahler cycle is Kubelik.  I think that he had more to say at that time than Bernstein did.  IMHO

Quote from: Sergeant Rock on August 01, 2014, 06:57:35 AM
I'm familiar with boy sopranos and...familiarity breeds contempt  ;D

Sarge

I think the young man whom Bernstein used was a better fit for the music than most prepubescent voices or else did a better job than most trebles do.   Remember that I don't particularly care for boy sopranos, and in fact my main problem with the Harnoncourt/Leonhardt cycle is the use of prepubescent voices.

Quote from: Jeffrey Smith on August 01, 2014, 08:56:18 AM
I think the young man whom Bernstein used was a better fit for the music than most prepubescent voices or else did a better job than most trebles do.

I just love it when someone uses "whom" correctly in a sentence.  8)

Quote from: bwv 1080 on July 31, 2014, 11:35:57 AM
I must be the only one who loves the DG version of the 4th with the boy soprano - both the symphony and the recording are underrated IMO

I haven't heard it, but I have read a lot of hate -- enough to actually make it intriguing, more so than a consensus of "meh." My library owns it, so I put it on hold.

Quote from: Pat B on August 01, 2014, 09:33:04 AM
I haven't heard it, but I have read a lot of hate -- enough to actually make it intriguing, more so than a consensus of "meh." My library owns it, so I put it on hold.

I'm "meh" about it. That the singer is a boy makes no impression me. The imprint concept means I suffer through any other version than HvK's, at least at home. And I am not a Karajan fan in particular.

I wonder why imprinting takes with some pieces, but not others. I'm happy listening to most versions of Mahler Nos. 2, 3, 5, 7, and 8, but only Bernstein's CBS Nos. 1, 6, 9, and 10 will do. Except for Herbie's No. 4 and Solti's No. 5, Bernstein on CBS is the first version I heard of anything by Mahler.

Quote from: Jay F on August 01, 2014, 09:42:05 AM
The imprint concept means I suffer through any other version than HvK's... I wonder why imprinting takes with some pieces, but not others.

Like you, I sometimes do, and sometimes don't. It might depend on a lot of factors, including how good and how distinctive the version in question is, and how familiar it becomes before you hear another.

This is veering further off topic, but I have also unimprinted on recordings (not Mahler, for whom I have minimized the risk of imprint). The process went like this: stop listening to the imprint version for a while. Listen to a different version several times. Voila. I did this unintentionally: the imprint recording was owned by my dad, and when I moved out I bought a different one. The first few listens were tough, but it got easier. The last time I heard the ex-imprint recording it actually sounded unusual to me.

Quote from: DavidW on August 01, 2014, 07:13:27 AM
btw my favorite 60s Mahler cycle is Kubelik.  I think that he had more to say at that time than Bernstein did.  IMHO

Kubilek is my choice on the tetraology (except maybe Bernstein for 3) but 5-7 are way too fast

Quote from: bwv 1080 on August 01, 2014, 10:55:20 AM
Kubilek is my choice on the tetraology (except maybe Bernstein for 3) but 5-7 are way too fast

What is your favorite in 5-7 from the 60s?  The third is the only one from the first Bernstein cycle that I really like, but Kubelik is fine in that symphony also so it's a toss up.  Of course looking at it individually-- I like Klemperer in the 2nd and 9th.  Kubelik in 1, 3 and 4.  Szell in the 6th.

Quote from: DavidW on August 01, 2014, 07:38:56 PM
What is your favorite in 5-7 from the 60s?  The third is the only one from the first Bernstein cycle that I really like, but Kubelik is fine in that symphony also so it's a toss up.  Of course looking at it individually-- I like Klemperer in the 2nd and 9th.  Kubelik in 1, 3 and 4.  Szell in the 6th.

Barbarolli by far on the 5th, no real favorite on 6 and 7

Quote from: bwv 1080 on July 31, 2014, 11:35:57 AM
I must be the only one who loves the DG version of the 4th with the boy soprano - both the symphony and the recording are underrated IMO.

Quote from: Jeffrey Smith on July 31, 2014, 07:33:46 PM
Not sure I love it but I think the boy soprano did a better job than people give him credit for

Well, Steve, you're not the only one who likes the boy soprano in the DG #4, as you can see from the response it got.  Add me to the club.  I thought it a very interesting choice which worked out.  I'm not sure I want to hear this in every Mahler 4 from now on, but I like it this time, and its definitely to be preferred to LB's Sony recording.  I disagree that the 4th is underrated.  Don't misunderstand me, I am not saying its one of Mahler's lesser symphonies.  I am saying that my perception is that it is a favorite of many Mahler lovers, and that I concur with that opinion.  Why do you think most people don't like it very much?

If you're only going to have one cycle, the Kubelik is the one to get, I think.  But who wants just one cycle?  I don't.  I am not sure anymore how many I have, and I am too lazy to go count, but I know I have at least 25 cycles.  Another one I like very much is the one by Segerstam, which no one has mentioned yet.  Its almost a carbon copy of the Kubelik interpretations, but in more modern sound.  And the Danish Radio Orchestra he records with is far better than most people seem to realize.  I think its one of the most underrated symphony orchestras in the world.

Another set which no one has yet mentioned is one on Capriccio by the Sofia (Bulgaria) Philharmonic, another of the most underrated orchestras in the world.  Conductor: Emil Tabakov.  The finale of the first is fantastic, and Lyudmila Hadzhieva is the rich, full-throated, expressive soprano he uses in the 4th.  Its on YouTube if you want to hear it.

For a long time, the Bernstein/Sony was one of my two favorite recording of the Resurrection Symphony.  The other was Klemperer, and they were at opposite ends of the interpretive spectrum.  Bernstein seemed to feel the problem and the interpretive challenge of the work was to sustain interest in a work over an uncommonly lengthy period of time for a symphony.  He chose to do this by waking people up with exaggerated tempo and dynamic changes.   Klemperer was just the opposite.  He seemed to feel that the problem for the conductor was holding it all together so that, despite the variety of ideas in it, it held together as a cohesive whole.  He accomplished this by minimizing tempo and dynamic changes until the last movement, creating a massive, monumental interpretation with a certain granitic quality, until the truly orgasmic finale, which I always felt outdid Bernstein by just a skosh.

But Segerstam and Kubelik are just as orgasmic, and more so, than even Klemperer, without the interpretive extremes of either Klemperer or Bernstein in other movements.  Actually, the preferred Bernstein recording is not in either of the sets.  Its the third one he did in September, 1973 in Ely Cathedral in England with Janet Baker, Sheila Armstrong, and the Edinburgh Festival Chorus, all three of which are superior to the soloists and choruses he used in either of the big box recordings.  And, as a "filler," there's the substaintial bonus of Janet Baker and Bernstein doing the Kindertotenlieder with the Israel Philharmonic.  WOW!  Go see the review by Ralph Moore at Amazon.com.  I heartily agree with every word.
http://www.amazon.com/Mahler-Symphony-No-Resurrection-Kindertotenlieder/dp/B00000DS72/ref=pd_sim_sbs_m_3?ie=UTF8&refRID=17NVGVYRG05GXASYPHTA

You really have to take each of the symphonies separately to do each justice, though.
1st--for a long time, Levine, LSO was my favorite, but this has been supplanted by many others of great significance.  This is a symphony which has been well treated in recordings; we probably have more superlative recordings of this symphony than any other in the Mahler canon.  Segerstam, Kubelik, Tabakov are good. As for the Third, the Bernstein Sony was always a favorite, but again, Kubelik and Segerstam, which I came to much later, are even better.  5th--Barbirolli, Segerstam, and Kubelik.  Interpretations of the Sixth are more complex for me.  My reference performance for this--that is, the best MOR performance, is the Tennstedt.  We have three basic approaches--one is to give it a lyrical approach, best expressed by Sinopoli, in my opinion, and somewhat less successfully by Bernstein Sony.  The other extreme is to emphasize the rhythmic aspects, and Bernstein DGG is the most extreme of these.  So, Bernstein has occupied both extremes in this symphony, but of its type, the DGG is better, as interpretation and certainly for sound quality.  The Seventh is a symphony I have a hard time relating to, but Segerstam and Kubelik seem very good.  As for the 8th, Bernstein SONY is excellent; another very good one is the Solti.  And finally, the Ninth.  My personal favorite Ninth is the Bruno Walter, Vienna Phil 1938 recording.  Besides those in the sets, two others stand out for me--Giulini, Chicago SO and Ancerl, Czech Phil.  Das Lied--Ferrier, Patzak, Walter is unparalleled to me.