GMG Classical Music Forum

The Music Room => Great Recordings and Reviews => Topic started by: snyprrr on September 02, 2014, 08:29:19 AM

Title: Sibelius Tone Poems
Post by: snyprrr on September 02, 2014, 08:29:19 AM
Maybe there's already a Thread? If not...

I've never felt the need to go beyond Alan Gibson's traversal on Chandos. If you can find me a better 'Luonnator', I'm all ears.

FAVOURITES:

'Luonnator'- find me a better singer than Brun-Julson(?) and I'll bite

'Spring Song'- I've actually written a Pop Song based on this melody

'Andante Festivo'- who doesn't looove this one?

'The Bard'
'The Oceanides'
'Scenes historiques'
...'Cranes'...
'Rakastava'
'Swanwhite'/'King Christian'- Chandos, nice stuff
'Finlandia' - if I don't hear it too often
'4 Legends'


I'm not too big on 'Tapiola' or the 'Night Ride'... I don't know... why don't I like 'Tapoila'? It's supposed to be all this, and I'm like eh... help...

what's left?
Title: Re: Sibelius Tone Poems
Post by: Karl Henning on September 02, 2014, 08:39:45 AM
Agreed that Finlandia is a blast, so long as it's not "on repeat."

You don't like Tapiola? Hopeless!  8)

Pohjola's Daughter (these make quite a long list, you know), En saga . . . .

Lenny's Luonnotar (with Phyllis Curtin) is lovely.

[asin]B00004SCUG[/asin]
Title: Re: Sibelius Tone Poems
Post by: Brian on September 02, 2014, 10:42:01 AM
Lenny B. is my top Pohjola's Daughter, but for Luonnotar, it's gotta be Soile Isokoski, Leif Segerstam, and the Helsinki PO. Truly a luxurious voice, and a spooky orchestra!

Alexander Gibson's Chandos discs are truly excellent, so you are NOT losing by keeping those!

Do not miss The Wood Nymph.
Title: Re: Sibelius Tone Poems
Post by: vandermolen on September 02, 2014, 12:01:14 PM
My favourite Luonnotar is the Dorati version which I find the most magical - it was however the only version I knew for many years. Think you mean Alexander Gibson. Tapiola is my favourite work by Sibelius. I also like those Alexander Gibson versions but also the tone poems conducted by Adrian Boult and Hans Rosbaud.
[asin]B00DY9WY4E[/asin]
Title: Re: Sibelius Tone Poems
Post by: Sergeant Rock on September 02, 2014, 12:13:25 PM
My favorites:

EN SAGA Stein/Suisse Romande
LUONNOTAR Berglund/Bournemouth with Valjakka
NIGHT-RIDE AND SUNRISE   Rattle/Philharmonia
WOOD-NYMPH Vänskä/Lahti
LEMMINKÄINEN SUITE OP.22 "FOUR LEGENDS" Franck/Swedish RSO
POHJOLA'S DAUGHTER Stein/Suisse Romande
SNÖFRID for Recitation, Chorus and Orch  Vänskä/Lahti
TAPIOLA Maazel/Vienna
THE TEMPEST SUITES Sakari/Iceland
FINLANDIA with chorus  Segerstam/Helsinki

Sarge




Title: Re: Sibelius Tone Poems
Post by: vandermolen on September 02, 2014, 12:17:52 PM
Quote from: Sergeant Rock on September 02, 2014, 12:13:25 PM
My favorites:

EN SAGA Stein/Suisse Romande
LUONNOTAR Berglund/Bournemouth with Valjakka
NIGHT-RIDE AND SUNRISE   Rattle/Philharmonia
WOOD-NYMPH Vänskä/Lahti
LEMMINKÄINEN SUITE OP.22 "FOUR LEGENDS" Franck/Swedish RSO
POHJOLA'S DAUGHTER Stein/Suisse Romande
SNÖFRID for Recitation, Chorus and Orch  Vänskä/Lahti
TAPIOLA Maazel/Vienna
THE TEMPEST SUITES Sakari/Iceland
FINLANDIA with chorus  Segerstam/Helsinki

Sarge

Nice choices Sarge. The Maazel version of Tapiola with its slower-than-usual storm section is a very powerful performance.
Title: Re: Sibelius Tone Poems
Post by: North Star on September 02, 2014, 12:48:23 PM
My favourite is Berglund's Tapiola, but with Helsinki Phil. Also Luonnotar (Isokoski), and all the rest (though Finlandia only once a year..)
Title: Re: Sibelius Tone Poems
Post by: snyprrr on September 03, 2014, 12:16:58 PM
Glad to see everyone loves 'Luonnator'!


I will have to try some 'Tapiola' again... 'Daughter' and 'Night Ride' are two others I'm not quite there with.


'Alexander' Gibson- check-


BUT WHAT OF THE SMALLER BITS?

Am I the only 'Spring Song'/ 'Andante Festivo' nut here? What of the smaller violin+orchestra works?
Title: Re: Sibelius Tone Poems
Post by: North Star on September 03, 2014, 12:30:10 PM
Quote from: snyprrr on September 03, 2014, 12:16:58 PM
BUT WHAT OF THE SMALLER BITS?

Am I the only 'Spring Song'/ 'Andante Festivo' nut here? What of the smaller violin+orchestra works?
I love them all. I was obsessed with Andante Festivo four years ago.
Title: Re: Sibelius Tone Poems
Post by: snyprrr on September 03, 2014, 01:22:35 PM
Quote from: North Star on September 03, 2014, 12:30:10 PM
I love them all. I was obsessed with Andante Festivo four years ago.

iT DOES HAVE THAT EFFECT (aye these caps) >:D where do there come from?

I'm scared to go beyond my beloved Jarvi 'Encores!' (Chandos)- love that album! Chabrier, Glinka, Sibelius....
Title: Re: Sibelius Tone Poems
Post by: vandermolen on September 04, 2014, 01:17:34 PM
Quote from: snyprrr on September 03, 2014, 12:16:58 PM
Glad to see everyone loves 'Luonnator'!


I will have to try some 'Tapiola' again... 'Daughter' and 'Night Ride' are two others I'm not quite there with.


'Alexander' Gibson- check-


BUT WHAT OF THE SMALLER BITS?

Am I the only 'Spring Song'/ 'Andante Festivo' nut here? What of the smaller violin+orchestra works?

I like Andante Festivo, especially with Sibelius himself conducting.
Title: Re: Sibelius Tone Poems
Post by: DavidRoss on September 05, 2014, 02:14:03 PM
Quote from: snyprrr on September 02, 2014, 08:29:19 AM
I've never felt the need to go beyond Alan Gibson's traversal on Chandos. If you can find me a better 'Luonnator', I'm all ears...find me a better singer than Brun-Julson(?) and I'll bite
Mean Mike and I had a tussle over Luonnotar recordings a few years ago on the old forum, IIRC. He favored Panula/Gothenburg/Häggander and I preferred Berglund/Bournemouth/Valjakka. It was a civil exchange and though neither of us changed the other's mind, I believe we both came away with somewhat greater appreciation of the work and of one another's preferences. That's the sort of thing I value on this and similar sites.

Although I have some of Gibson's Sibelius, I haven't his Luonnotar -- but Spotify allowed a hearing under tolerable if far from ideal conditions. Bryn-Julson certainly has a lovely voice and uses it well. Hers may be the prettiest Luonnotar I've heard.

However ... I like my creation myths a bit edgier, my lonely sea goddesses more desperate and forlorn. Valjakka really has the measure of the tale, methinks.

But it's a great piece, amenable to interpretation, and you can hardly go wrong with any recording (though I'm not much fond of Mattila's operatic soaring).

If choosing one disc to represent the tone poems I'd be sunk.  There are far too many good ones to fit on one CD.  Must have Mikko Franck's fabulous En Saga and Lemminkäinen Legends, Bernstein's Pojohla's Daughter, Vänskä's Oceanides, Ollilo's Pelleas & Melisande, Rattie's Nightride, Segerstam's Tapiola, Sakari's Finlandia, etc., etc. ... or I could settle for Berglund/Bournemouth's 2-disc set and listen happily ever after.

I see it's still available at Amazon, and recently remastered to boot! (17 years ago  ;) )

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51llyImbZ7L._SL500_AA280_.jpg)

The point is, Sibelius's tone poems are splendid; as a body of work they're unequaled in the genre. Listen hard, listen long, listen half-assed, half-crazy, or half-drunk, but listen, man, for God's sake just listen!
Title: Re: Sibelius Tone Poems
Post by: 71 dB on September 06, 2014, 12:21:21 AM
I don't care much about Sibelius' symphonic sound, but these tone poems are different animals. I have been considering some Naxos discs containing this kind of "fairytale Sibelius". I liked 'Night-Ride and Sunrise' quite a lot when I heard it on radio a few years ago.
Title: Re: Sibelius Tone Poems
Post by: vandermolen on September 06, 2014, 11:34:33 PM
Quote from: 71 dB on September 06, 2014, 12:21:21 AM
I don't care much about Sibelius' symphonic sound, but these tone poems are different animals. I have been considering some Naxos discs containing this kind of "fairytale Sibelius". I liked 'Night-Ride and Sunrise' quite a lot when I heard it on radio a few years ago.

Yes, that's a fine work. I like the old Horst Stein recording which I had on LP in my youth.
Title: Re: Sibelius Tone Poems
Post by: akiralx on September 07, 2014, 09:51:42 PM
I'm a big fan of the Neeme Jarvi DG Trio set: superb Pohjola's Daughter, though all the recordings are very fine - plus you get the lovely incidental music to King Christian II.
Title: Re: Sibelius Tone Poems
Post by: Daverz on September 08, 2014, 02:10:17 PM
Quote from: akiralx on September 07, 2014, 09:51:42 PM
I'm a big fan of the Neeme Jarvi DG Trio set: superb Pohjola's Daughter, though all the recordings are very fine - plus you get the lovely incidental music to King Christian II.

Jarvi's 4 Legends CD on Bis is very good.

[asin]B000027ETZ[/asin]

Beautifully recorded, too.
Title: Re: Sibelius Tone Poems
Post by: akiralx on September 09, 2014, 03:33:19 PM
Quote from: Daverz on September 08, 2014, 02:10:17 PM
Jarvi's 4 Legends CD on Bis is very good.

Beautifully recorded, too.

Don't know that one, I have a few of his BIS Sibelius symphony recordings (including the Third which was BBC Radio 3 Building a Library top choice), though I do have his later DG Four Legends - but my top choice for that work is the Helsinki RSO under Okko Kamu, last seen on a French DG Double called 'Splendeurs du Nord'.

[asin]B000025WYN[/asin]
Title: Re: Sibelius Tone Poems
Post by: Mirror Image on September 09, 2014, 06:56:04 PM
Quote from: karlhenning on September 02, 2014, 08:39:45 AM
Agreed that Finlandia is a blast, so long as it's not "on repeat."

You don't like Tapiola? Hopeless!  8)

Pohjola's Daughter (these make quite a long list, you know), En saga . . . .

Lenny's Luonnotar (with Phyllis Curtin) is lovely.

[asin]B00004SCUG[/asin]

I second Karl's recommendation here. This is a gorgeous disc. Bernstein is definitely one of my favorite Sibelians.
Title: Re: Sibelius Tone Poems - DECISIONS DECISIONS--
Post by: snyprrr on September 10, 2014, 09:37:06 AM
I think I'll be getting the Gibson... it has the 10 Main Works,... and then a separate 'Lemminkainen',... and the 3rd has the 'Scenes Historiques', 'Rakastava', and 'Valse lyrique'.

Otherwise, the Jarvi 3CD has "enough" of everything to keep one happy.

HOWEVER!!- the Berglund 2CD has 'Swanwhite', 'King Christian', and 'Pelleas'...



WHAT'S YOUR OPINION OF the Sakari/Chandos dics of the above three pieces? I used to have it, ... something to just put on and relax?
Title: Re: Sibelius Tone Poems - DECISIONS DECISIONS--
Post by: Mirror Image on September 10, 2014, 07:32:40 PM
Quote from: snyprrr on September 10, 2014, 09:37:06 AM
I think I'll be getting the Gibson... it has the 10 Main Works,... and then a separate 'Lemminkainen',... and the 3rd has the 'Scenes Historiques', 'Rakastava', and 'Valse lyrique'.

Otherwise, the Jarvi 3CD has "enough" of everything to keep one happy.

HOWEVER!!- the Berglund 2CD has 'Swanwhite', 'King Christian', and 'Pelleas'...



WHAT'S YOUR OPINION OF the Sakari/Chandos dics of the above three pieces? I used to have it, ... something to just put on and relax?

My Sibelians of choice: Vanska, Bernstein, Berglund, and Segerstam. The end. 8)
Title: Re: Sibelius Tone Poems
Post by: jochanaan on September 11, 2014, 09:32:08 AM
I've played Finlandia several times, and Pohjola's Daughter once.  Sibelius is always fun to play!

One of my favorites that hasn't been mentioned yet is The Bard.  It may not have been recorded very often, but there's a Berglund/Bournemouth recording from the '70s that's nice.

For Lemminkainen, there is a truly amazing Eugene Ormandy/Philadelphia recording from the late 1970s.  Most of Ormandy's later recordings, although beautiful, are lacking in "interpretive" qualities, but this one has all the old magic and is splendidly recorded by EMI. ;D
Title: Re: Sibelius Tone Poems
Post by: Daverz on September 11, 2014, 09:03:14 PM
Quote from: jochanaan on September 11, 2014, 09:32:08 AM
For Lemminkainen, there is a truly amazing Eugene Ormandy/Philadelphia recording from the late 1970s.  Most of Ormandy's later recordings, although beautiful, are lacking in "interpretive" qualities, but this one has all the old magic and is splendidly recorded by EMI. ;D

Listening to it now.  I don't mean to damn with faint praise if I say that the Ormandy is ideal for night listening.  i'd never get away with the scary deep bass of Jarvi's Bis recording this late at night.
Title: Re: Sibelius Tone Poems
Post by: snyprrr on September 12, 2014, 07:14:27 AM
Quote from: Daverz on September 11, 2014, 09:03:14 PM
Listening to it now.  I don't mean to damn with faint praise if I say that the Ormandy is ideal for night listening.  i'd never get away with the scary deep bass of Jarvi's Bis recording this late at night.

how's the singer in Jarvi?BIS?
Title: Re: Sibelius Tone Poems
Post by: North Star on September 12, 2014, 07:25:52 AM
Quote from: snyprrr on September 12, 2014, 07:14:27 AM
how's the singer in Jarvi?BIS?
In Luonnotar, you mean?
Title: Re: Sibelius Tone Poems
Post by: snyprrr on September 12, 2014, 08:21:15 AM
Quote from: North Star on September 12, 2014, 07:25:52 AM
In Luonnotar, you mean?

yes please
Title: Re: Sibelius Tone Poems
Post by: North Star on September 12, 2014, 08:43:52 AM
Quote from: snyprrr on September 12, 2014, 08:21:15 AM
yes please
Assuming it's the same as in the DG box, the glorious Soile Isokoski.
Title: Re: Sibelius Tone Poems -Gibson CHANDOS COMPLETE-
Post by: snyprrr on September 22, 2014, 05:52:42 PM
Sir Alexander Gibson/ Sibelius: The Complete Tone Poems (Chandos)


1) Are the levels a bit low here? Seems I have to turn it up, but there IS a bloom to it...

2) Sibelius reminds me of christmas...errr,,... sounds like...           (nevermind)...

3) Only Vanska also programmes 'The Bard, 'The Dryad', and 'The Oceanides',... these three were Must Haves and trump many other considerations for me.

4) I like 'Spring Song' but it's about as "low" as I want to go with Sibelius. Can you NOT recommend works like the 'Champetere(?)' suites of trifles and such? The Sibelius I like seems to eschew the typical Viennese overtones, but he does have a lot of "minor minor minor" works that can't be of much interest?


What do you think of:

Scenes historiques I et II

Rakastava


I seem to recall that particular Gibson disc was a cut above?

Title: Re: Sibelius Tone Poems -Gibson CHANDOS COMPLETE-
Post by: snyprrr on September 22, 2014, 09:43:52 PM
Quote from: snyprrr on September 22, 2014, 05:52:42 PM
Sir Alexander Gibson/ Sibelius: The Complete Tone Poems (Chandos)


1) Are the levels a bit low here? Seems I have to turn it up, but there IS a bloom to it...

2) Sibelius reminds me of christmas...errr,,... sounds like...           (nevermind)...

3) Only Vanska also programmes 'The Bard, 'The Dryad', and 'The Oceanides',... these three were Must Haves and trump many other considerations for me.

4) I like 'Spring Song' but it's about as "low" as I want to go with Sibelius. Can you NOT recommend works like the 'Champetere(?)' suites of trifles and such? The Sibelius I like seems to eschew the typical Viennese overtones, but he does have a lot of "minor minor minor" works that can't be of much interest?


What do you think of:

Scenes historiques I et II

Rakastava


I seem to recall that particular Gibson disc was a cut above?

Listened to 'The Bard', 'The Dryad', 'The Oceanides', and 'Luonnotar'- now thaaat's entertainment!! Sibelius-style
Title: Re: Sibelius Tone Poems WHY ME NO LIKE TAPIOLA TOO MUCH???
Post by: snyprrr on September 24, 2014, 08:38:03 AM
'Tapioca'... err.... I mean 'Tapiola'


Gibson's reading is pretty good- I was trying to picture the 'Kraken' scene from 'Clash of the Titans' but the music just wasn't taking me there. Gibson clocks in at 15:34, which I believe is pretty fast, no?

I CAN hear the 'monster music', but I just wasn't totally enthralled, which, judging by everyone's love of it, I should have been. In a way, I wonder if this music is supposed to be somewhat thematically linked with von Trier's 'Antikrist'- that whole 'wrathful nature' thing?

Title: Re: Sibelius Tone Poems
Post by: snyprrr on October 05, 2014, 06:28:59 PM
Finlandia

The Oceanides

The Bard
The Dryad


Luonnotar

Lemminkainen and the Maidens of Saari
The Swan of Tuonela
Lemminkainen in Tuonela
Lemminkainen's Homeward Journey

Scenes Historiques I
Scenes Historiques II

Spring Song

Rakastava

Andante Festivo

Tapiola


En Saga
Pohjola's Daughter
Night-Ride and Sunrise
Valse Lyrique

Music from 'Kuolema'

Pelleas and Melisande
King Christian
Swanwhite

Title: Re: Sibelius Tone Poems
Post by: Jaakko Keskinen on December 05, 2014, 08:30:08 AM
I don't think anyone has mentioned Tulen synty yet? Excellent work, along with Luonnotar, Snöfrid, Kullervo and Maiden in tower it is one of Sibbe's most impressive works for human voice.

Of course, you can argue it is more of a cantata, like Snöfrid. I think they can both be considered tone poems, though.

...didn't anyone even mention Kullervo? Or don't you consider it tone poem either? Or don't you like it? To quote Karl: Hopeless!  8)
Title: Re: Sibelius Tone Poems
Post by: Jaakko Keskinen on December 05, 2014, 08:35:59 AM
...and what about Pan and echo?
Title: Re: Sibelius Tone Poems
Post by: Wanderer on December 05, 2014, 09:03:32 AM
Quote from: Alberich on December 05, 2014, 08:30:08 AM
...didn't anyone even mention Kullervo? Or don't you consider it tone poem either?

Kullervo is more often considered a symphony, as far as I know.
Title: Re: Sibelius Tone Poems
Post by: Mirror Image on May 17, 2015, 06:03:25 PM
The Sibelius Edition set of the tone poems should be sufficient enough to feed your hunger for these works, snyprrr. Enthusiastically recommended.
Title: Re: Sibelius Tone Poems
Post by: vandermolen on May 31, 2015, 09:35:36 AM
What's your favourite tone poem other than Tapiola. Mine would probably be the Oceanides or The Bard.
Title: Re: Sibelius Tone Poems
Post by: North Star on May 31, 2015, 09:47:19 AM
Pohjola's Daughter or Oceanides, I think. Rather fond of The Bard, En saga, Wood-nymph too.
Title: Re: Sibelius Tone Poems
Post by: Jaakko Keskinen on May 31, 2015, 10:36:50 AM
Pohjola's daughter, no question.
Title: Re: Sibelius Tone Poems
Post by: vandermolen on May 31, 2015, 10:43:42 AM
Quote from: Alberich on May 31, 2015, 10:36:50 AM
Pohjola's daughter, no question.

Yes, I nearly chose this too. Which recording is your favourite?
Title: Re: Sibelius Tone Poems
Post by: Jaakko Keskinen on May 31, 2015, 10:59:13 AM
Vassily Sinaisky gives a pretty good performance in his  recording of complete symphonic poems by Sibelius. His Nightride and sunrise is also one of the best I've ever heard.
Title: Re: Sibelius Tone Poems
Post by: Sergeant Rock on May 31, 2015, 11:10:07 AM
Quote from: vandermolen on May 31, 2015, 09:35:36 AM
What's your favourite tone poem other than Tapiola.

En saga...and Wood-Nymph.

Sarge
Title: Re: Sibelius Tone Poems
Post by: North Star on May 31, 2015, 11:11:58 AM
Quote from: Sergeant Rock on May 31, 2015, 11:10:07 AM
En saga...and Wood-Nymph.

Sarge

Yay, yet another vote for the Skogsrået. 8)
Title: Re: Sibelius Tone Poems
Post by: Mirror Image on June 01, 2015, 07:06:40 AM
Favorite Sibelius tone poems (in no particular order): Tapiola, The Oceanides, Night Ride and Sunrise, En Saga, and Pohjola's Daughter.
Title: Re: Sibelius Tone Poems
Post by: bigshot on June 01, 2015, 08:31:39 AM
Robert Kajanus / London Symphony Orchestra 1932

Pohjola's Daughter: http://www.vintageip.com/xfers/soundingsilence02.mp3
Tapiola: http://www.vintageip.com/xfers/soundingsilence03.mp3
Title: Re: Sibelius Tone Poems
Post by: vandermolen on June 04, 2015, 01:04:41 PM
Quote from: bigshot on June 01, 2015, 08:31:39 AM
Robert Kajanus / London Symphony Orchestra 1932

Pohjola's Daughter: http://www.vintageip.com/xfers/soundingsilence02.mp3
Tapiola: http://www.vintageip.com/xfers/soundingsilence03.mp3

These are great performances.
Title: Re: Sibelius Tone Poems
Post by: Karl Henning on June 05, 2015, 03:15:23 AM
Quote from: Mirror Image on June 01, 2015, 07:06:40 AM
Favorite Sibelius tone poems (in no particular order): Tapiola, The Oceanides, Night Ride and Sunrise, En Saga, and Pohjola's Daughter.

In a category for which there is no bad answer, these make a superb Gang of Five  8)
Title: Re: Sibelius Tone Poems
Post by: Mirror Image on June 05, 2015, 06:18:37 AM
Quote from: karlhenning on June 05, 2015, 03:15:23 AM
In a category for which there is no bad answer, these make a superb Gang of Five  8)

They certainly do, Karl. 8)
Title: Re: Sibelius Tone Poems
Post by: Sergeant Rock on June 05, 2015, 06:36:42 AM
Quote from: Mirror Image on June 01, 2015, 07:06:40 AM
Favorite Sibelius tone poems (in no particular order): Tapiola, The Oceanides, Night Ride and Sunrise, En Saga, and Pohjola's Daughter.

Quote from: karlhenning on June 05, 2015, 03:15:23 AM
In a category for which there is no bad answer, these make a superb Gang of Five  8)

Indeed, you can't make an inferior list of five. All the tone poems superb (including Finlandia). Still, if I had to choose five (considering Kullervo as a symphony):

Tapiola, En saga, The Wood-Nymph, Luonnotar, The Swan of Tuonela


Sarge
Title: Re: Sibelius Tone Poems
Post by: Karl Henning on June 05, 2015, 06:44:27 AM
Sarge, what's your opinion on this Burning Philosophical Question—Is the Valse triste a short tone-poem, or is it simply a characteristic dance?

8)
Title: Re: Sibelius Tone Poems
Post by: Sergeant Rock on June 05, 2015, 06:55:00 AM
Quote from: karlhenning on June 05, 2015, 06:44:27 AM
Sarge, what's your opinion on this Burning Philosophical Question—Is the Valse triste a short tone-poem, or is it simply a characteristic dance?

8)

I tend towards the latter. Too short for a tone poem? (But then Bantock's The Sea Reivers is even shorter, so there goes my argument.) Since it was originally part of the incidental music to a play I suppose that disqualifies it from being labeled a tone poem. Whatever it is, I love it. Never tire of hearing it (unlike so many other popular, overplayed pieces).

Sarge
Title: Re: Sibelius Tone Poems
Post by: Karl Henning on June 05, 2015, 06:56:09 AM
Quote from: Sergeant Rock on June 05, 2015, 06:55:00 AM
I tend towards the latter. Too short for a tone poem? (But then Bantock's The Sea Reivers is even shorter, so there goes my argument.) Since it was originally part of the incidental music to a play I suppose that disqualifies it from being labeled a tone poem. Whatever it is, I love it. Never tire of hearing it (unlike so many other popular, overplayed pieces).

Sarge

It is a masterly gem.