One of the joys of classical music is the kaleidoscope of languages and names and words that speak of faraway places, other cultures, climes and mores. The names of composers, conductors and performers have special appeal. Without taking a smidgen away from Yo-Yo Ma's talent and business acumen, one can't help but wonder how his name might have aided his career. Or Kiri Te Kanawa - fun to say - or ... you'll think of your own names no doubt. For me, one conductor's name had special significance - Rafael Frühbeck de Burgos. It conjured-up the very image of a confident, worldly grandee with a distinguished Spanish, German and Italian patrimony. For several years in times of troubles or sadness, I would recite his name twice or thrice to myself; that such a person could actually exist seemed magically to improve situations. That seems long ago; I've gotten out of that habit and I don't hear his name on the radio much anymore. He died this year, in June, without knowing the good he'd done me. Or maybe he did know something of it - his toponymic surname he added deliberately to appeal to his Spanish audience!
Magical or otherwise, do the names of any composers, conductors or performers hold special significance for you?
There is definitely a phenomenon of good composer names (or conductor names, etc,) and bad ones. It's more obvious if you look at contemporary people, as old-fashioned names either sound invariably dignified or invariably silly.
Bad composer names are usually things like Bruce, Harvey, Alan, Theodore, Brian, Michael, Jennifer, Judy, Barbara, Katie, Olivia, (not to mention Mechthild, Irmgard, Adolf, Engelbert, Cecil, Boris, etc.), though it depends on the surname to some extent as well. (e.g. Brian Ferneyhough is salvaged by the composerliness of 'Ferneyhough', though to minimize awkwardness and maximise euphonious potential he should have changed his first name to something like 'Charles' or 'Giles')
Names like John/Johann(es)/Jean/Jan and Georg(e)(s)/Yuri/Jiři are so common as to be nonentities making the fate of the name entirely dependent on the remaining names. (Jean Sibelius—good; Jean Cras—bad...)
Good composer names might include Charles, Alexander (highly surname dependent), Richard, Philip, Imogen, Elizabeth, Isabelle, plus most names in Finnish, German and Italian. (Alternate spellings/pronunciations are also good, but nicknames ruin it. No one can take 'Rick' Wagner or 'Betty' Jacquet de la Guerre seriously.)
http://www.youtube.com/v/u6FYbO-W0-c
Some names just look awful in English. Take Dong Suk Kim or Tan Dun.
Quote from: springrite on November 07, 2014, 04:58:13 PM
Some names just look awful in English. Take Dong Suk Kim or Tan Dun.
Or Pierre Boulez. Of course that's a
learned response.
Messiaen looks rather messy to an Anglophone: spendthrift in the vowel department, and tumbling over each other to reach the end of the word.
Quote from: Ken B on November 07, 2014, 06:17:17 PM
Or Pierre Boulez. Of course that's a learned response.
It
is an unfortunate name, trans. roughly as Roll Stone (except that, as you know, the z is pronounced so really isn't the formal imperative of
bouler).
bouler = to roll
envoyer bouler quelqu'un = to send someone packing
Quote from: Jeffrey Smith on November 07, 2014, 06:25:34 PM
Messiaen looks rather messy to an Anglophone: spendthrift in the vowel department, and tumbling over each other to reach the end of the word.
True, still I've always seen it as appropriate owing to its close resemblance to messianic (also French word :
messianique) and the French word for mass (
messe).
Quote from: ZauberdrachenNr.7 on November 07, 2014, 06:49:30 PM
It is an unfortunate name, trans. roughly as Roll Stone (except that, as you know, the z is pronounced so really isn't the formal imperative of bouler).
bouler = to roll
envoyer bouler quelqu'un = to send someone packing
Boulez les bons temps, as they allegedly say in Louisiana.
Like: Anner Bijlsma.
Know what's a great name? Awadagin Pratt.
Quote from: ZauberdrachenNr.7 on November 07, 2014, 03:31:11 PM
Or Kiri Te Kanawa - fun to say - or ... you'll think of your own names no doubt.
I've always found Kiwi the Canary a highly appropriate name.
Quote from: ZauberdrachenNr.7 on November 07, 2014, 06:49:30 PM
envoyer bouler quelqu'un = to send someone packing
Well, now I understand
Structures...
Quote from: amw on November 07, 2014, 04:10:42 PM
Bad composer names are usually things like...Brian...though it depends on the surname to some extent as well. (e.g. Brian Ferneyhough is salvaged by the composerliness of 'Ferneyhough', though to minimize awkwardness and maximise euphonious potential he should have changed his first name to something like 'Charles' or 'Giles')
That's what Havergal Brian did, change his name. He was born William Brian. If he'd kept that name he would have resided in obscurity to his dying day. But with a name like Havergal, well, his reputation was made ;D
Sarge
Quote from: Jeffrey Smith on November 07, 2014, 07:09:29 PM
Boulez les bons temps, as they allegedly say in Louisiana.
:D
Quote from: Pat B on November 07, 2014, 08:20:02 PM
Like: Anner Bijlsma.
It could be a really serious disease.
Quote from: Sergeant Rock on November 08, 2014, 03:21:42 AM
That's what Havergal Brian did, change his name. He was born William Brian. If he'd kept that name he would have resided in obscurity to his dying day. But with a name like Havergal, well, his reputation was made ;D
Sarge
There ya' go - it can't hurt! One sometimes ponders this equation : classical music = beauty = truth, but it is after all show biz, so the equation should be "truth that lies." Now,
Zauberdrachen, there's a name that's bound for success! :laugh:
Delphin Strungk.
Quote from: Sergeant Rock on November 08, 2014, 03:21:42 AM
That's what Havergal Brian did, change his name. He was born William Brian. If he'd kept that name he would have resided in obscurity to his dying day. But with a name like Havergal, well, his reputation was made ;D
Sarge
Bill Brian's
Gothic Symphony doesn't
quite have the same ring to it. 8)
Good evening, Karlo!
Names can have many imoplications, indeed... Apparently, Klemperer in Latvian will bring to mind the idea of someone plonking away at a piano :D
On the other hand, other names can be sooo suitable... I've always thought that Volkmar Andreae is a perfect name for a conductor associated with Bruckner ;D
Quote from: Sergeant Rock on November 08, 2014, 03:21:42 AM
That's what Havergal Brian did, change his name. He was born William Brian. If he'd kept that name he would have resided in obscurity to his dying day. But with a name like Havergal, well, his reputation was made ;D
Sarge
Right. And Sergeant Rock was originally Sergeant Ricky.
Quote from: ritter on November 08, 2014, 10:35:20 AM
Good evening, Karlo!
Names can have many imoplications, indeed... Apparently, Klemperer in Latvian will bring to mind the idea of someone plonking away at a piano :D
On the other hand, other names can be sooo suitable... I've always thought that Volkmar Andreae is a perfect name for a conductor associated with Bruckner ;D
Evening,
Rafael!
Thank goodness
Sibelius adopted the artist name
Jean, instead of sticking to
Janne...
Quote from: North Star on November 08, 2014, 10:47:20 AM
Evening, Rafael!
Thank goodness Sibelius adopted the artist name Jean, instead of sticking to Janne...
Speaking of Jean, another one, I've always enjoyed the name (and work of ) Jean Langlais whose name seems an amusing self-contradiction!
Quote from: Sergeant Rock on November 08, 2014, 03:21:42 AM
That's what Havergal Brian did, change his name. He was born William Brian.
Luckily, Count Nikolaus de la Fontaine und d'Harnoncourt-Unverzagt didn't feel it necessary to add extra elaborations to his name...
And spare a thought for poor Fartein Valen. I love his violin concerto, but am resigned never to hearing it in a British concert hall.
Quote from: DaveF on November 08, 2014, 12:40:12 PM
Luckily, Count Nikolaus de la Fontaine und d'Harnoncourt-Unverzagt didn't feel it necessary to add extra elaborations to his name...
And spare a thought for poor Fartein Valen. I love his violin concerto, but am resigned never to hearing it in a British concert hall.
Near the end of Beethoven's Ninth, ever since hearing that dude's name I have misheard "lieber Vater wohnen" as "lieber Fartein Valen".
The first association with Klemperer in German is probably "Klempner" (plumber), someone tonking at the piano could be called a "Klimperer", but this is not common.
Before his son became a politician (who disgraced himself after a rather short time because he had received a doctoral degree with a plagiarizes (and probably ghost written) dissertation) I found Enoch zu Guttenberg a rather impressive name and quite fitting for a conductor of serious sacred choral music. But now the name is tainted.... I guess they were just great...grandchildren of robber barons anyway.
(Sigh.)
Johann Gambolputty de von Ausfern-schplenden-schlitter-crasscrenbon-fried-digger-dingel-dangel-dongel-dungel-burstein-von-knacker-thrasher-apple-banger-horowitz-ticolensic-grander-knotty-spelltinkle-grandlich-grumbelmeyer-spelterwasser-kurstlich-himbeleisen-bahnwagen-gutenabend-bitte-ein-nürnburger-bratwurstl-gerspurten-mitz-weimache-luber-hundsfut-gumberaber-schönendanker-kalbsfleisch-mittler-aucher von Hautkopf (aus Ulm).
http://www.youtube.com/v/Dzn0tIy3dzM
Quote from: Marc on November 08, 2014, 02:13:33 PM
(Sigh.)
Johann Gambolputty de von Ausfern-schplenden-schlitter-crasscrenbon-fried-digger-dingel-dangel-dongel-dungel-burstein-von-knacker-thrasher-apple-banger-horowitz-ticolensic-grander-knotty-spelltinkle-grandlich-grumbelmeyer-spelterwasser-kurstlich-himbeleisen-bahnwagen-gutenabend-bitte-ein-nürnburger-bratwurstl-gerspurten-mitz-weimache-luber-hundsfut-gumberaber-schönendanker-kalbsfleisch-mittler-aucher von Hautkopf (aus Ulm).
http://www.youtube.com/v/Dzn0tIy3dzM
Gutenabend, indeed!
The Danes are great for music names:
Nils Erik Sparf
Lars Ulrik Mortensen
Morten Schuldt-Jensen
Michael Schonwandt
Herman D. Koppel
Rued Langgaard
Harald Agersnap
Bo Holten
Niels Viggo Bentzon
and of course
Victor Borge
Quote from: Brian on November 10, 2014, 04:50:48 AM
The Danes are great for music names:
Nils Erik Sparf
Lars Ulrik Mortensen
Morten Schuldt-Jensen
Michael Schonwandt
Herman D. Koppel
Rued Langgaard
Harald Agersnap
Bo Holten
Niels Viggo Bentzon
and of course
Victor Borge
Right you are ! (Victor Borge was of course not his real name, it was : Børge Rosenbaum ; which serves to show how important names are in the Biz!)
Quote from: Brian on November 10, 2014, 04:50:48 AM
The Danes are great for music names:
Nils Erik Sparf
Lars Ulrik Mortensen
Morten Schuldt-Jensen
Michael Schonwandt
Herman D. Koppel
Rued Langgaard
Harald Agersnap
Bo Holten
Niels Viggo Bentzon
and of course
Victor Borge
Knudåge Riisager!
Quote from: amw on November 10, 2014, 08:59:50 AM
Knudåge Riisager!
How could I forget! The King of the Petrol Station Ballet!
Not a composer, but notable is the name of an older widow I know, Mrs. Beverley Hills.
Quote from: North Star on November 08, 2014, 09:40:37 AM
Bill Brian's Gothic Symphony doesn't quite have the same ring to it. 8)
Or Joe Green's Aida.
Quote from: springrite on November 10, 2014, 04:54:18 PM
Or Joe Green's Aida.
This thread is deteriorating - may have to be linked with the apology thread.
I don't know why we don't translate composer's names actually. It's definitely something that used to be done—Louis van Beethoven, François Schubert, George Friderick Handel. No reason to stop there.
We could also translate the names of famous performers and conductors, into more suitable English equivalents. I mean, with subtlety, so we don't end up with people named Gene Christmassy or Friend-Friend Horse. That's just amateurish.
(http://static.qobuz.com/images/covers/21/90/3329184689021_300.jpg)
Henri Sauguet changed his name from Poupard to Sauguet . (Un) poupard = childlike or even "a chubby child", a child with fat, rosy cheeks...
Germaine Tailleferre changed her name from Marcelle Taillefesse to Germaine Taileferre.
Taillefesse is a very old and very rare name in France. in modern french one can read it as "buttock sculptor" ( tailler = to sculpt , la fesse= the buttock).
The etymological reality:
Origine : Taillefesse est un nom ancien issu du nom de lieu Tarlefesse, hameau de la commune de Noyon, Picardie.
Fesse, forme alteree de faisse, du latin fascia, un hart, lien fait d'une branche .
Taillefesse is an old name of the hamlet "Tarlefesse" near Noyon / Picardy. Un hart = a knot made with a supple branch.
Belgian names can be quite unusual aswell or at least difficult to pronounce for non native speakers...
(http://www.brassbandbuizingen.be/files/uploads/2011/06/1308650055_marcel_poot.jpg)
Composer Marcel Poot and
Jef Van Hoof
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/89/Jef_Van_Hoof.gif/220px-Jef_Van_Hoof.gif)
(http://www.gentblogt.be/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/20120327_StephanieProot1_sm.jpg)
Pianist Stephanie Proot
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/4c/Ria_Bollen.jpg/220px-Ria_Bollen.jpg)
Alto Ria Bollen ( a "bol" is a "ball", plural = bollen, thus, balls).
In the Belgian province of Limburg the name "Billen" is quite common . Billen = buttocks.
(http://garage.peugeot.be/Resources/billen/Billen.JPG)
Other Belgo-Flemish names that might create ...some unease :
De Cock, Cockx etc., De Vleeschhouwer (butcher), Goormachtig, Goormans ( goor= revolting, disgusting), conductor Léonce Gras last name can be translated in French as "fat", in Dutch as "grass";
Both the names "Hellemont" ( hell mouth) and Hemelsoet ( heaven sweet) exist.
The Kuijken dynasty provides us with another great tongue breaker , the name can be read as "kuiken" , a (young) chicken.
Composer André Laporte's name translates , of course, as André The door
Our famous beer "Duvel" (duvel is dialect for "duivel" =devil) is brewed by the Moortgat company ( moord= murder (gat: vulgar for) ass)
(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRhGA37jpRcMAPbbtYjMZYx1T-rGtVGbdc312GD1XRq0mSQ1co5UQ)
Conductor Philip Rathé's name can be translated as Philip Failure ( raté = failure in French)
Jean-Baptiste Singelée (1812-1875), one of the first composers to write for the saxophone has a name that very often is misspelt.
In Belgium one's last name can be Slangen (snakes), Slootmaeckers ( lock maker), Specht ( woodpecker), Stout ( naughty) or Teerlinck (dice)...;
and an incredible amount of names starting with Van....( Damme, Vyvere, de Walle , de Wattyne, de Wiele, de Weghe, Dooren, Durme, Duyse, Eeckhout, Elslande, Eycken, Frachen, Eyndhoven, Geyseghem, Goethem, Gorp, Haute, Haver, Herck, Holderbeke, Heule, Hoof, Durme, Innis, Ingelgem, Liefferinge, Looy, Maldeghem, Melckebeke, Mol, Oost, Parys, Paesschen, Poeck, Reyn, Rossum, Rysselberghe, Steenbeeck, Stappen, West, Wassenhoven, .....)
I end with composers Serge Verstockt ( verstokt = obdurate) and André Waignein ( that is just a very hard one to pronounce correctly!)!
No matter his achievements, I've had a hard time taking conductor Hartmut Haenchen seriously:
(http://www.abnehmen-aktuell.de/bilder/haenchen.jpg)
Quote from: amw on November 10, 2014, 05:56:15 PM
I don't know why we don't translate composer's names actually. It's definitely something that used to be done—Louis van Beethoven, François Schubert, George Friderick Handel. No reason to stop there.
We could also translate the names of famous performers and conductors, into more suitable English equivalents. I mean, with subtlety, so we don't end up with people named Gene Christmassy or Friend-Friend Horse. That's just amateurish.
Interesting thought. Yes, 'twas often done but I think it's prob. not a good idea, certainly not w/o the artist's consent. to me, it's possibly indicative of a lack of openness to cultural difference. Worse, it may be more than a little suggestive of a kind of cultural predation (if you have a genius or talented composer, conductor, performer, we'll 'nationalize' him or her by making his name acceptable to
US - and in the process - at least symbolically - diminish
YOUR cultural treasure. Think of it, say, like an international stamp collector would - you wouldn't want to alter your stamps' educational/historical/cultural value by having them all anglified...?
Quote from: Abuelo Igor on November 11, 2014, 04:12:56 AM
No matter his achievements, I've had a hard time taking conductor Hartmut Haenchen seriously:
(http://www.abnehmen-aktuell.de/bilder/haenchen.jpg)
I'm so glad I'm a vegetarian. The thought of
Munch - ing ??? a conductor fills me with dread.
Quote from: pjme on November 11, 2014, 03:42:12 AM
(http://static.qobuz.com/images/covers/21/90/3329184689021_300.jpg)
Henri Sauguet changed his name from Poupard to Sauguet . (Un) poupard = childlike or even "a chubby child", a child with fat, rosy cheeks......
THANKS,
pjme, that's quite an amusing compendium! You could have a coupla' hours worth of an interesting radio show discussing those! :) 8)
Quote from: ZauberdrachenNr.7 on November 11, 2014, 04:38:50 AM
I'm so glad I'm a vegetarian.
So am I. More for the rest of us. :)
Does anyone remember Jenó Blau, conductor of the Fabulous Philadelphians? And the great Bruno Schlesinger, outstanding champion of Mozart and Mahler?
And today there's Franz Leopold Maria Möst, better known in some circles as "Frankly Worse than Most." :D ;) (A most interesting case. According to Wikipedia, he "assumed the stage name Welser-Möst on suggestion of his mentor, Baron Andreas von Bennigsen of Liechtenstein, thus paying homage to the city of Wels where he grew up." And at age 26, he was adopted by the good baron--and then proceeded to marry the baron's ex-wife, Angelika.)
Quote from: ZauberdrachenNr.7 on November 07, 2014, 03:31:11 PM
For me, one conductor's name had special significance - Rafael Frühbeck de Burgos. It conjured-up the very image of a confident, worldly grandee with a distinguished Spanish, German and Italian patrimony.
Here he explains how he got his interesting name:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ByHFpFBJ4H8
Quote from: North Star on November 08, 2014, 09:40:37 AM
Bill Brian's Gothic Symphony doesn't quite have the same ring to it. 8)
I've read that Franz Schmidt's music teacher informed him that if he wanted to be noticed as a composer, he should change his boring name.
Quote from: Velimir on November 16, 2014, 10:48:17 AM
Here he explains how he got his interesting name:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ByHFpFBJ4H8
Thanks, Velimir!!
Ippolitov-Ivanov
Miaskovsky