A thread dedicated to his conducting legacy. [If there is a prior thread into which this ought to be merged, I have no quarrel.]
So, with the Concertos & Orch. Works box, is the organizational scheme that first the Concertos are (roughly) alphabetical by composers; and then the Orch. Works likewise? (First-off impression on opening the box and reaching for the Holst . . . .)
"I love Grandpa Lenny!" Kimi says.
Yes, that is the organizational scheme. At the very end are collections of works not organized by composer - like a Russian album with Borodin, Gliere, Prokofiev's Scythian Suite, and a piece by Lopatnikoff.
I love the two giant Lenny boxes I have from Sony, and, provided a winning lottery ticket, will invest in the giant box from DG, too. Good to have a special thread to gossip about our favorites. 8)
Quote from: springrite on January 22, 2015, 06:22:02 AM
"I love Grandpa Lenny!" Kimi says.
She's got great taste!
Quote from: Brian on January 22, 2015, 06:22:42 AM
Yes, that is the organizational scheme. At the very end are collections of works not organized by composer - like a Russian album with Borodin, Gliere, Prokofiev's Scythian Suite, and a piece by Lopatnikoff.
I love the two giant Lenny boxes I have from Sony, and, provided a winning lottery ticket, will invest in the giant box from DG, too. Good to have a special thread to gossip about our favorites. 8)
Per the driver for my pulling the trigger on this, I am starting with
The Planets. Gracious, the sound of this
Mars is fabulous; and while the interpretation certainly trends towards "the edgy side," I find it completely, fabulously convincing.
Damn, but when you listen to this, you feel that the
NY Phil is the best-sounding band in the world.
Quote from: karlhenning on January 22, 2015, 06:24:06 AM
She's got great taste!
She especially loves the dancing, and air conducts in the same style, with all the Lenniism signature moves all of which she has completely mastered!
I just found a recording of a rehearsal of the Turangalila-Symphonie with Lenny/BSO on Spotify. I literally just finished listening to it (about 26 minutes long).
The Big Tunes in Jupiter have a nice gravity to them (in comparison to some other interpretations — themselves, not bad interpretations — where both tunes are taken a bit quicker). This is wonderfully sweet and gracious.
Quote from: karlhenning on January 22, 2015, 06:47:56 AM
The Big Tunes in Jupiter have a nice gravity to them (in comparison to some other interpretations — themselves, not bad interpretations — where both tunes are taken a bit quicker). This is wonderfully sweet and gracious.
I agree with Greta: Lenny's is the best Jupiter.
Sarge
At his best, Lenny was unbeatable.
There: I said it.
Quote from: karlhenning on January 22, 2015, 06:47:56 AM
The Big Tunes in Jupiter have a nice gravity to them (in comparison to some other interpretations — themselves, not bad interpretations — where both tunes are taken a bit quicker). This is wonderfully sweet and gracious.
The trumpets don't always seem as sure as they should. I wish the tempo were just a shade faster in the middle section, but well done for all that. What is interesting to note is that comparing to Steinberg, the strings seem to have a bit more presence in Steinberg. Whereas with Lenny, I hear the other parts a bit more and the brass don't quite excite as much in their entrances. Both are good.
Quote from: EigenUser on January 22, 2015, 06:45:18 AM
I just found a recording of a rehearsal of the Turangalila-Symphonie with Lenny/BSO on Spotify. I literally just finished listening to it (about 26 minutes long).
Turangalila in 26 minutes? Lennie was a
god!
>:D :laugh:
Quote from: Sergeant Rock on January 22, 2015, 07:06:00 AM
I agree with Greta: Lenny's is the best Jupiter.
Sarge
The parts I thought best were Jupiter -- nobilmente done right -- Venus (mystery over swoon), and the last two movements where Lennie's brilliance with sound-worlds shows through. Not the best performance I know of but a very darn good one.
Quote from: Ken B on January 22, 2015, 08:28:14 AM
Turangalila in 26 minutes? Lennie was a god!
>:D :laugh:
Right after I posted that, I thought to myself "Oh, Ken is certainly going to have fun with that comment!" I was going to edit it, but why bother?! ;) ;D
Idea: Instead of listening to Messiaen in the form of CDs or .mp3s, you should try listening in .zip. :laugh:
There already are two Bernstein threads at GMG... 0:)
http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,1346.msg31985.html#msg31985 (http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,1346.msg31985.html#msg31985)
http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,12455.msg307396.html#msg307396 (http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,12455.msg307396.html#msg307396)
I have too many Bernstein discs (and too many other things on my wishlist) to invest in any of the big boxes. My favorites off the top of my head include his '60s Mahler cycle and Beethoven 3, 4, and 5, and the 1989 "Ode to Freedom." That last might be considered a guilty pleasure around here -- regardless, I think it's great.
His 1958 Rite of Spring may join that list, but I have only listened to it once.
I hardly need another Planets but I have added his to my wishlist.
This may veer off-topic, but does anybody know why he left Columbia? Lebrecht says they dropped him because they didn't think he was #1 in anything but his own compositions. (Grain/mound of salt as usual with Lebrecht.) Considering that at the time, Bruno Walter was dead, Ormandy had already left for RCA, Szell was getting very old, and severe austerity measures were not yet in effect, that seems like a spectacularly poor decision even by classical record industry standards.
Quote from: Moonfish on January 22, 2015, 12:34:04 PM
There already are two Bernstein threads at GMG... 0:)
http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,1346.msg31985.html#msg31985 (http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,1346.msg31985.html#msg31985)
http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,12455.msg307396.html#msg307396 (http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,12455.msg307396.html#msg307396)
Seems like a good idea to me to combine the first one and this, as they both focus on his conducting.
Quote from: Moonfish on January 22, 2015, 12:34:04 PM
There already are two Bernstein threads at GMG... 0:)
http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,1346.msg31985.html#msg31985 (http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,1346.msg31985.html#msg31985)
http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,12455.msg307396.html#msg307396 (http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,12455.msg307396.html#msg307396)
Well, I knew there was the Composer thread. And I guess I was lazy about seeking the Conductor thread 8)
Quote from: Pat B on January 22, 2015, 12:51:31 PM
I have too many Bernstein discs (and too many other things on my wishlist) to invest in any of the big boxes. My favorites off the top of my head include his '60s Mahler cycle and Beethoven 3, 4, and 5, and the 1989 "Ode to Freedom." That last might be considered a guilty pleasure around here -- regardless, I think it's great.
His 1958 Rite of Spring may join that list, but I have only listened to it once.
I hardly need another Planets but I have added his to my wishlist.
This may veer off-topic, but does anybody know why he left Columbia? Lebrecht says they dropped him because they didn't think he was #1 in anything but his own compositions. (Grain/mound of salt as usual with Lebrecht.) Considering that at the time, Bruno Walter was dead, Ormandy had already left for RCA, Szell was getting very old, and severe austerity measures were not yet in effect, that seems like a spectacularly poor decision even by classical record industry standards.
I believe DG offered him more money. I vaguely recall some anecdote about his shock at just how much.
Interesting factoid. In 1963 Karajan earned more from recordings royalties than a Beatle. He made millions a year from DG, plus his other gigs.
Quote from: Ken B on January 22, 2015, 01:39:20 PM
I believe DG offered him more money. I vaguely recall some anecdote about his shock at just how much.
Well, that is certainly more plausible.
BUT: Lebrecht also says that he didn't sign an
exclusive contract with DG until 1981, which I believe since he made a handful of recordings for other labels in the late 70s (2 Berlioz for EMI, Tristan und Isolde on Philips, and the live Shostakovich 5 back on Columbia). I would expect that the shocking money would have come with exclusivity.
(As an even-further-aside, I didn't realize until recently how much Karajan had recorded for EMI in that era. That helps explain why DG was so interested in Bernstein. I'm still a bit surprised they ended up on the same label.)
This might not interest anybody else, but I'm really curious. Lebrecht's source on that was former Columbia exec Paul Myers, who just happens to have written a bio on Bernstein. What are the odds! I ordered a cheap used copy. For good measure I also put a newer bio on hold at the library.
Quote from: karlhenning on January 22, 2015, 06:26:37 AM
Per the driver for my pulling the trigger on this, I am starting with The Planets. Gracious, the sound of this Mars is fabulous; and while the interpretation certainly trends towards "the edgy side," I find it completely, fabulously convincing.
I'm with you.
Quote from: karlhenning on January 22, 2015, 06:26:37 AMDamn, but when you listen to this, you feel that the NY Phil is the best-sounding band in the world.
Yep.
that album with the Turangalila rehearsal on Spotify has a harrowing Sacre with the NY Phil. just heard it too...oh gosh...this is the first time the piece has left me feeling like a deer in the headlights
Quote from: xochitl on January 22, 2015, 10:32:02 PM
that album with the Turangalila rehearsal on Spotify has a harrowing Sacre with the NY Phil. just heard it too...oh gosh...this is the first time the piece has left me feeling like a deer in the headlights
Good harrowing or bad harrowing? I haven't heard it, and I can't tell if you mean it was a terrifying performance or a terrible performance.
Quote from: Pat B on January 22, 2015, 12:51:31 PM
This may veer off-topic, but does anybody know why he left Columbia? Lebrecht says they dropped him because they didn't think he was #1 in anything but his own compositions. (Grain/mound of salt as usual with Lebrecht.) Considering that at the time, Bruno Walter was dead, Ormandy had already left for RCA, Szell was getting very old, and severe austerity measures were not yet in effect, that seems like a spectacularly poor decision even by classical record industry standards.
In Joan Peyser's biography of Lenny she says one reason he left CBS was because of that company's hesitation or refusal to record and promote opera:
"By 1970 Clive Davis was running CBS Records" and at one meeting with Bernstein that concentrated on Bernstein's wish to record operas "Davis articulated CBS's relunctance because of the costs involved[...]The strained relations between Bernstein and CBS reached a crisis point during the summer conference in London. Bernstein demanded the company record his new
Carmen, a venture that would have cost more than $200,000. Bernstein asked for a large promotion budget and a junket to Spain." CBS passed on the project and released Lenny to record
Carmen for DG (which had been pursuing him).
Carmen was a hit, selling more than 100,000 copies within the first three years, becoming DG's best-selling opera. Bernstein was impressed by DG's marketing acumen.
Another reason he preferred DG was their willingness, unlike CBS, to record him live.
Quote from: Pat B on January 22, 2015, 09:51:20 PM
BUT: Lebrecht also says that he didn't sign an exclusive contract with DG until 1981
Peyser says Bernstein's first exclusive contract with DG was signed in 1976. Exclusive doesn't seem to mean what we think it means, though, since Lenny also recorded for other labels after that time. But his relationship with DG made him an international star on the same level as Karajan. It was lucrative for him and DG.
Sarge
Thanks, Sarge. I've meant to seek out Peyser's bio.
Quote from: karlhenning on January 23, 2015, 04:59:31 AM
Thanks, Sarge.
+1. I think Peyser must have been mistaken about the word "exclusive," but that is now a minor point. The rest of your quote paints a clear picture that is completely plausible.
I guess I should have asked which of his bios are best. The one I'm getting from the library is a new one by Allen Shawn, who has instant credibility since his brother played Vizzini. ;)
Do I recall that there is an Allen Shawn book on Schoenberg, as well? (... which I have been meaning to look into ....)
Quote from: Pat B on January 23, 2015, 08:09:11 AM
+1. I think Peyser must have been mistaken about the word "exclusive," but that is now a minor point. The rest of your quote paints a clear picture that is completely plausible.
I guess I should have asked which of his bios are best. The one I'm getting from the library is a new one by Allen Shawn, who has instant credibility since his brother played Vizzini. ;)
I don't know which biography is best. I do know Peyser is criticized for her emphasis on Bernstein's private life (sexuality, etc). She's not very sympathetic towards her subject. Some have called her book a character assasination. She is also very critical of Lenny's lack of interest in atonal music and post WWII music trends.
Sarge
She certainly gave an impression of something of a hostile biographer of Boulez.
Quote from: karlhenning on January 23, 2015, 11:37:24 AM
She certainly gave an impression of something of a hostile biographer of Boulez.
Just when Sarge was leading me to dislike her ...
Quote from: EigenUser on January 23, 2015, 12:05:15 AM
Good harrowing or bad harrowing? I haven't heard it, and I can't tell if you mean it was a terrifying performance or a terrible performance.
terrifying. i was really tired and bored after work last nite and i just heard it to get a feel for a younger Lenny ('51) but was totally not expecting to be gripped and reinvigorated. gonna listen a second time just to make sure it wasnt a fluke ;D
ok. heard it again: still awesome! it's totally brutal and messy and Lenny pushes and pulls the thing a bit much but it works, i mean it's about a young girl being sacrificed ffs
Quote from: xochitl on January 23, 2015, 06:18:37 PM
terrifying. i was really tired and bored after work last nite and i just heard it to get a feel for a younger Lenny ('51) but was totally not expecting to be gripped and reinvigorated. gonna listen a second time just to make sure it wasnt a fluke ;D
ok. heard it again: still awesome! it's totally brutal and messy and Lenny pushes and pulls the thing a bit much but it works, i mean it's about a young girl being sacrificed ffs
I'm intrigued. I love RoS, but I am so sick of it from overplaying it (totally my fault, not Igor's!). Maybe this is what I need to hear to be able to enjoy it again.
I really,
really wish that Lenny had recorded Messiaen's
Turangalila-Symphonie in full! Did he not like the piece? I know it was a commission from Koussevitzky, who was too ill to conduct it. It seems odd that Bernstein premiered such a major 20C piece and never recorded it. Did he conduct it in concert after the premiere?
Reading...
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51yqonUYRdL.jpg)
Granted, that Dallapiccola's Tartiniana is a half-questionable addition to Music of Our Time ....