Kinsella is my favourite living composer and I think that he deserves his own thread, especially as there has been quite a lot of discussion on the 'British Composers' thread and he is not actually British! ::); He comes from the Republic of Ireland. The two great Kinsella CDs feature symphonies 3,4,6 and 7. I was initially alerted to him as a Gramophone review compared him with Lilburn and Tubin, whose works I have greatly admired for decades. Thanks to the advocacy of Christo on this forum I have come to admire the wonderful Seventh Symphony, with its occasional echoes of Sibelius's 7th Symphony. It arrives at a moving catharsis and has an urgency and powerful declamatory quality, which is entirely characteristic. The atmosphere stays with you (or with me anyway) and every time I listen to these scores I find more to admire:
[asin]B0000069JO[/asin]
[asin]B004Z0PWJK[/asin]
vandermolen...if you have already acquired the Tubin and Vagn Holmboe cycles and are looking for another less well known 20th c symphonist offering similar rewards ie tonal,approachable but also something that you can really get your teeth into (Daniel Jones as opposed to George Lloyd) and might need more than one listen to really fully assimilate (ie late Tubin or later Holmboe) would Kinsella be a composer that should be high on my 'shopping list'.....apart from 'Noah',of course!! ;D
Quote from: cilgwyn on February 13, 2015, 02:26:23 AM
vandermolen...if you have already acquired the Tubin and Vagn Holmboe cycles and are looking for another less well known 20th c symphonist offering similar rewards ie tonal,approachable but also something that you can really get your teeth into (Daniel Jones as opposed to George Lloyd) and might need more than one listen to really fully assimilate (ie late Tubin or later Holmboe) would Kinsella be a composer that should be high on my 'shopping list'.....apart from 'Noah',of course!! ;D
cilgwyn, my belief is that Kinsella would have exactly the appeal you describe; especially symphonies 3,4,6 and 7.
Here is a taster of his music:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_RBv6P6ejA
Quote from: cilgwyn on February 13, 2015, 02:26:23 AM
vandermolen...if you have already acquired the Tubin and Vagn Holmboe cycles and are looking for another less well known 20th c symphonist offering similar rewards ie tonal,approachable but also something that you can really get your teeth into (Daniel Jones as opposed to George Lloyd) and might need more than one listen to really fully assimilate (ie late Tubin or later Holmboe) would Kinsella be a composer that should be high on my 'shopping list'.....apart from 'Noah',of course!! ;D
My belief - it won't come as a big surprise - is exactly the same. Inspired by a short stay in Dublin, this Autumn, I 'discovered' that recently more symphonies had been released on CD. In the late 1990s, many here had come to admire the Third 'Joie de Vivre' (1989/90) and Fourth 'The Four Provinces' (1990/1) for very good reasons.
But only now - with also nos. 5 'The 1916 Poets' (1990/1), 6 (1992/3), 7 for chorus and orchestra (1997), 9 for strings (2004) and 10 for small orchestra (2010) available on new CDs and nos. 1 (1984) and 2 (1988) on Youtube and as mp3 file downloads on the Art-Music Forum - can we see what a great symphonist he actually is. Yes, he can stand comparison with Tubin and Holmboe - my two favourite 'Nordic' composers - and also perhaps Englund, Lilburn, Braga Santos. But is a great personality, standing on his own feet.
Jeffrey is right: Symphonies 3, 4, 6, 7 are his very best, but every other single symphony is highly rewarding as well. BTW, a 2012 thesis on all the symphonies is available online (and very helpful): http://etheses.dur.ac.uk/7313. Otherwise, this overview also helped me explore more (and caused me to buy all available recordings last Novemberr, among them one of the last copies of his Cello Concerto to be found world-wide :P): http://www.catholic.org/news/ae/music/story.php?id=54749. Enjoy! :D
Is the last name one of those Castilian names from the survivors of the Spanish Armada?
Many thanks for the information: it is gratifying to see an artist still active in his 70's and 80's!
Other CDs with music by John Kinsella (I acquired them all, recently 8)):
Symphony No. 5 'The 1916 Poets' (1991) & Symphony No. 10 (2010): Symphony No. 9 for strings (2004) and other pieces for String Orchestra:
(http://blog.toccataclassics.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/TOCC-0242-Kinsella-Syms-5-and-10.jpg) (http://www.irishchamberorchestra.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/Kinsella_Cd-cover-jpg.jpg)
The Cello Concerto (2000): String Quartet No. 3 (1977):
(http://static.qobuz.com/images/covers/37/08/0600685100837_600.jpg) (http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51N61pww7uL._SY355_.jpg)
Quote from: Cato on February 13, 2015, 10:41:15 AM
I the last name one of those Castilian names from the survivors of the Spanish Armada?
I know little (i.e. nothing) about Irish names, but I noticed that Kinsella is pronounced with the stress (accent) on the first syllable; which makes it sounding competely un-Spanish at least. Does anyone know more about it?
Edit: should have checked first, of course. No, it's definitely a name of Celtic origin, Cinnsealach, later anglicized to Kinsella: http://www.kinsella.org/history/eanna.htm
Another 'Adagio for Strings', actually Kinsella's Nocturne for Cello and String Orchestra (or 'Nocturne for John'), a revision of the second movement of the Violin Concerto No. 2 (1989):
https://www.youtube.com/v/_7lRDwKfMjY
I'm definitely going to be giving Kinsella a listen. I already own the Marco Polo release (will listen to it soon) and a few nights ago I bought that RTE Lyric recording of Symphonies 6 & 7 and other orchestral works. Looking forward to hearing these. Thanks for this thread, Jeffrey!
Quote from: Mirror Image on February 13, 2015, 07:10:11 PM
I'm definitely going to be giving Kinsella a listen. I already own the Marco Polo release (will listen to it soon) and a few nights ago I bought that RTE Lyric recording of Symphonies 6 & 7 and other orchestral works. Looking forward to hearing these. Thanks for this thread, Jeffrey!
My pleasure John and many thanks to you and the others for the interesting responses - I look forward to hearing your comments on the music. I thought that Johan (Christo) was a likely candidate to respond ( :)) but thought that might be it. I would like to ask Johan which of the CDs he posted above he thinks I would enjoy most as I only have symphonies 3,4,6 and 7 in my collection; although it took me a little while to get into No 7 I now agree that it is possibly (with No 3) the finest of all. Actually I do have one other CD in my collection which features Kinsella's music and that is on one of two promotional CDs 'Contemporary Music from Ireland' issued by the Contemporary Music Centre, Ireland. When I sent him my fan letter, many years ago, John Kinsella very kindly arranged for those CDs to be sent to me (one of the CDs features none of his music at all). The other features the lovely nine and a half minute 'Nocturne' (a string arrangement from Violin Concerto No. 2), which Johan posted above. It is indeed a beautiful, sad, searching and lyrical work. Coincidentally my brother, a while back, met someone who had worked with John Kinsella at RTE, Dublin and who described him as 'a lovely man'.
PS I have just been listening to the 'Nocturne' and realised that from about seven minutes in I was reminded of the music of another composer and realised it reminded me of one of the searching and lyrical moments in Moisei Weinberg's magnificent 5th Symphony.
It's nice to hear the music of a living composer who composes traditional tonal music without being bland. The Symphony 7 is an original and majestic work. The forms he employs are clever indeed! The RTE recording, however, is a little bottom-heavy with booming percussion. Kinsella is such a melodic composer--not a surprise, I suppose from the land of ethereal folk music. I do wish his harmonies were a little "thicker." Perhaps in some of his other works?
Quote from: Rons_talking on February 17, 2015, 01:05:56 AM
It's nice to hear the music of a living composer who composes traditional tonal music without being bland. The Symphony 7 is an original and majestic work. The forms he employs are clever indeed! The RTE recording, however, is a little bottom-heavy with booming percussion. Kinsella is such a melodic composer--not a surprise, I suppose from the land of ethereal folk music. I do wish his harmonies were a little "thicker." Perhaps in some of his other works?
Do you know 3 and 4? Both fine works with great life-affirming energy.
Thank you for your replies,vandermolen and Christo (and all the other very interesting contributions here) Kinsella certainly sounds like a composer I should explore. Not yet though. I'm going to give the postman a rest after the recent flood (sorry! ;D) of packages through my letterbox. What with a new camcorder and portable sw communications receiver;I think my wallet needs a rest too!! :( ;D
A review of a Kinsella cd on the Musicweb site:
http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2015/Feb/Kinsella_sys_TOCC0242.htm
Quote from: cilgwyn on February 18, 2015, 01:41:37 PM
A review of a Kinsella cd on the Musicweb site:
http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2015/Feb/Kinsella_sys_TOCC0242.htm
Thanks for this. The writer should listen to symphonies 3 and 4 which are terrific scores.
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/71hGmrtoejL._SX522_.jpg)
I listened to this disc 3 times in a row. Kinsella's music exerts a fascination I rarely find in other contemporary or modern (say, post-1950) composers. Its most salient feature - to my ears and mind anyway - is the powerful sense of organisation underlying the music. From beginning to end, not a note is heard that does not fit into a compelling design.
This is music that unfurls with staggering inevitability until the last chord. I find it quite impossible to listen to it with less than my full attention. It reminds me of the stark music of Jon Leifs, but with more purpose, better channelled ideas, more convincing master plan. Another link might be with Robert Simpson, but more daring and incisive. It's been years since I last listened to Simpson's symphonies, though. I should revisit him.
Crosspost of something I wrote to WAYLT a few days ago.
Quote from: JBS on January 23, 2019, 04:25:39 PM
Second listen to this
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51%2BIdCuavBL.jpg)
Tentative ranking of the Kinsella symphonies I have heard
7
10
6
3
5
With a big gap in front of 5 to signify how much less I liked it.
That leaves 1,2,8, and 9 unheard.
Quote from: André on January 28, 2019, 04:56:08 PM
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/71hGmrtoejL._SX522_.jpg)
I listened to this disc 3 times in a row. Kinsella's music exerts a fascination I rarely find in other contemporary or modern (say, post-1950) composers. Its most salient feature - to my ears and mind anyway - is the powerful sense of organisation underlying the music. From beginning to end, not a note is heard that does not fit into a compelling design.
This is music that unfurls with staggering inevitability until the last chord. I find it quite impossible to listen to it with less than my full attention. It reminds me of the stark music of Jon Leifs, but with more purpose, better channelled ideas, more convincing master plan. Another link might be with Robert Simpson, but more daring and incisive. It's been years since I last listened to Simpson's symphonies, though. I should revisit him.
A good analysis! I feel the Simpson connection too. Definitely this is music that needs your complete attention, not only for how fascinating it is, but for the development itself.
Quote from: JBS on January 28, 2019, 06:35:58 PM
Crosspost of something I wrote to WAYLT a few days ago.
How about No.4?
3,4,6 remain my favourites
Quote from: vandermolen on January 28, 2019, 11:26:01 PM3,4,6 remain my favourites
The correct answer is:
7! How often will you force me to repeat it? :laugh:
Quote from: Christo on January 29, 2019, 01:36:29 AM
The correct answer is: 7! How often will you force me to repeat it? :laugh:
Ok Ok - I'll listen to it again since you're making such a song and dance about it!
8)
Quote from: vandermolen on January 28, 2019, 11:26:01 PM
How about No.4?
3,4,6 remain my favourites
Oh dear...forgot 4. well, 4 is midway between 3 and 6.
Quote from: Christo on January 29, 2019, 01:36:29 AM
The correct answer is: 7! How often will you force me to repeat it? :laugh:
Clearly I do rate No.7 very highly (see opening post of this thread ::)). I'm listening to nos 6 and 7 again now.
Just ordered this disc directly from the Irish Chamber Orchestra website:
(http://www.irishchamberorchestra.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/11/cd-hommage.jpg).
This week I listened to symphonies 5 and 10. That last symphony is an enigmatic work which brought to mind other fascinating but cryptic, hard to fathom works such as Nielsen's 6th or RVW' s last two symphonies. All these works are written in an easily embraceable idiom, but they seem to relish being 'different'. The Kinsella 10th is written in three contrasted movements of equal length, each one with a distinct character. It's the connection between them that is elusive. They seem to inhabit different Musical ZIP codes.
The 5th is an absolutely terrific work. The spoken/sung poems are perfectly woven into the complex musical fabric (lots of stuff is happening in the orchestra, particularly in the cellar - low brass and winds). Their deeply probing interplay produce a huge, sweeping arc. I found it both moving and beautiful. The interpreters are absolutely grand, whether it's the Hagen-voiced Gerard O'Connor or the nobly sonorous speaker Bill Golding. I also like the way they have been recorded, voices and orchestra occupying distinct acoustical spaces. The mix is very well done. Outstanding.
Am enjoying the excellent Symphony 6.
Here is an article I came across about the composer:
https://www.irishtimes.com/culture/music/2.749/a-lifetime-of-obsession-with-symphonies-1.497868
I have a problem with "speakers" reciting over music, and Kinsella's Fifth did not get out of the gate with me. But I thought the Tenth was worth getting the CD.
Listened to today: symphony no 2 (1989). From youtube. Superb !
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Ht1fJhAVeRI (https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Ht1fJhAVeRI)
Quote from: André on April 02, 2019, 03:45:01 PM
Listened to today: symphony no 2 (1989). From youtube. Superb !
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Ht1fJhAVeRI (https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Ht1fJhAVeRI)
Sounds excellent - reminds me of Symphony 3. Why is this not on CD? Thanks for posting it Andre.
Cross-posted from the WAYL thread:
Quote
(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/71AEERScryL._SS500_.jpg)
The art cover may lead one to expect something jolly and colourful. It is not. These are works for strings only and are almost all deadly serious in tone. Lest that sound like a thumbs down, it is not either. In fact it's one of the most impressive discs of Kinsella's music I've heard.
The 9th symphony is a major work. I was reminded of other dark works like Britten's Sinfonia da Requiem, Shostakovich's 14th (minus the vocals), Sibelius 4th, Arnold's 9th, but in a very concentrated, elliptic way - it is in 7 continuous sections lasting 31 minutes. The central slow movement is among the most desolate, barren musical utterances I can think of. It's also amazingly beautiful.
The other works on the disc have been carefully chosen to follow in that direction while providing welcome contrast to the main offering. The small orchestra (19 strings, with a slight bias toward the lower voices) play splendidly and is very well recorded. Stunning quality all around.
Quote from: Christo on February 13, 2015, 10:44:10 AM
Other CDs with music by John Kinsella (I acquired them all, recently 8)):
The Cello Concerto (2000):
(http://static.qobuz.com/images/covers/37/08/0600685100837_600.jpg)
I've listened to this CD once, will need to hear ot a couple of times more before my opinion settles itself...but I found the Kinsella to be quite good, and worthy of being coupled with the Shostakovich (CC1). (The Garrido that comes in the middle was too modernist in its idiom for my taste...but that may be more a reflection of me than the concerto itself.) It deserves being taken up by other cellists, and deserves another recording, especially if this one is OOP.
Arkivmusic (from whom I got it) says they currently have it in stock...
http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/album.jsp?album_id=126161
Cross-posted from the listening thread, hope you guys don't mind 0:) Judging by the 11th, it looks like another composer I need to discover further.
Quote from: aligreto on December 04, 2019, 11:40:53 AM
John Kinsella: Symphony No. 11 [RTE National Symphony Orchestra/Deroyer]
(https://www.cmc.ie/sites/default/files/styles/wide/public/75.jpg?itok=kUbdGz6z)
On Friday 29th November I had the privilege to be present at the world premier of Kinsella's Symphony No. 11. I know that there are one or two Kinsella fans here and I can report to them that it was a very memorable night. John Kinsella himself was present. After the performance he was presented with the Lifetime Achievement Award 2019. Kinsella gave a speech at the end of the ceremony on stage which merely reaffirmed how unassuming a man he is.
Kinsella's Symphony No. 11 is a standard three movement work [fast, slow, fast] and it is scored for a medium sized orchestra. This work is something of an homage to Kinsella's musical idol, Sibelius, and in particular the projected Eight Symphony. To quote Kinsella himself, "I freely constructed motifs from the sketches and built the work from them". One can hear clear echoes of Sibelius in Kinsella's Symphony No. 11 but it is a work which has a clear and distinctive voice of its own. The music is powerful, dramatic, thrilling and noble. The performance was also dramatic, thrilling and very exciting from a very committed orchestra who gave their heart and soul to the performance.
Quote from: Symphonic Addict on December 04, 2019, 12:14:32 PM
How interesting to read, aligreto! Certainly I'm one of those fans. It looked like a most fascinating experience as you say. Now let's hope a CD recording of that work.
Quote from: Papy Oli on December 04, 2019, 12:36:03 PM
Jens retweeted an article link to this premiere some days back, with a video of it :
https://www.rte.ie/culture/2019/1129/1095980-the-lyric-concert-john-kinsellas-11th-symphony-premiered/ (https://www.rte.ie/culture/2019/1129/1095980-the-lyric-concert-john-kinsellas-11th-symphony-premiered/)
Quote from: vandermolen on December 05, 2019, 12:27:07 AM
How exciting! I'm very jealous Fergus. Some years ago he sent an absolutely charming reply to my letter to him (c/o RTE Dublin) telling him how much I'd enjoyed the Marco Polo CD featuring his Third and Fourth symphonies, which is still my favourite CD of his music, much as I enjoyed the others as well. He also very kindly arranged to me be sent a couple of CDs of music by Irish composers. It didn't surprise me to read of your favourable impression of the man himself. Thanks for posting this.
Yes, very appropriate to move that anthology of posts to this thread.
Excellent idea!
It would appear that symphonies 1, 2 and 11 are the only ones not available on disc. They are on youtube for our convenience. Now if only RTÉ would oblige us with the real thing... :)
Quote from: André on December 05, 2019, 06:58:27 AM
Excellent idea!
It would appear that symphonies 1, 2 and 11 are the only ones not available on disc. They are on youtube for our convenience. Now if only RTÉ would oblige us with the real thing... :)
RTE Dublin were very helpful when I was attempting to pester John Kinsella with my fan letter.
:)
I've never dealt with RTÉ, but when I ordered the disc of the 9th symphony from the Dublin based orchestra's website they included a sampler disc and a handwritten thank you note. The Irish seem good at PR :D
Quote from: André on December 05, 2019, 09:21:32 AM
I've never dealt with RTÉ, but when I ordered the disc of the 9th symphony from the Dublin based orchestra's website they included a sampler disc and a handwritten thank you note. The Irish seem good at PR :D
I agree. I had very nice communications with them.
I always get a happy feeling when I learn of a brand new symphony being brought into the world. The form still has plenty to offer us, centuries down the line.
With 11 to his name, Kinsella must be among the more prolific among living symphonists. I look forward to exploring his music more.
Quote from: Maestro267 on December 05, 2019, 09:38:19 AM
I always get a happy feeling when I learn of a brand new symphony being brought into the world. The form still has plenty to offer us, centuries down the line.
With 11 to his name, Kinsella must be among the more prolific among living symphonists. I look forward to exploring his music more.
What a nice post!
Wonderful news indeed! With the prolonged silence that befell us after the Tenth Symphony of 2012 I presumed it had been his final statement in this form - and how much I like it, not completely at the same level of inspiration of No. 9 for strings from 2004, another indication that his symphony cycle had come to an end.
And now, after more than seven years of almost total silence, he reappears alive and kicking. Honestly I'm moved and really hope to be able to hear his Symphony No. 11 in due time (before he'll be able to finish yet another one).
I really consider Kinsella a superp composer, with symphonies like his No. 3 and 7 among the finest in the genre, with a strong individual stamp, eclectic but certainly not derivative, one might cite the example of Sibelius but more than an example he is not. John Kinsella, a very fine composer from Ireland, may he live long.
Quote from: Christo on December 05, 2019, 11:26:56 AM
Honestly I'm moved and really hope to be able to hear his Symphony No. 11 in due time (before he'll be able to finish yet another one).
Christo, unless you meant listening to it live or on CD, did you see the link above. It included a YT video of the 11th premiere ?
Quote from: Papy Oli on December 05, 2019, 02:04:10 PM
Christo, unless you meant listening to it live or on CD, did you see the link above. It included a YT video of the 11th premiere ?
Oh dear, really - had overlooked it, many thanks!!
Quote from: Christo on December 05, 2019, 10:21:02 PM
Oh dear, really - had overlooked it, many thanks!!
I hope that you enjoy listening to the new Kinsella symphony. :)
From The Irish Times [9th Jan. 1998]
Quote
Self-taught symphonist
John Kinsella is unusual among Irish composers for his concentration on writing symphonies. He was, however, something of a late beginner, not completing his First Symphony until 1984, when he was 52. On the other hand, you could argue he was exactly the opposite: as a teenager in the late 1940s, one of his first works was a symphony which he valiantly submitted as an entry for RTE's Carolan Prize.
"The adjudicator was Sir Arnold Bax that year. I remember when I got my score back that the pages were turned up to about half-way through, after which I think he lost interest. I remember I gave that score to Eamonn O Gallchobhair at one stage. I'm not quite sure where it is now. Just as well."
Kinsella is essentially self-taught as a composer, and O Gallchobhair's is the only name he mentions in connection with tuition. "I had a couple of composition lessons with him. He used to spend a lot of his time denouncing people like Beethoven for writing in short, motivic style. He said that long, flowing melodies are the essence of what music should be all about." When he was at the period in his life when he might have devoted himself to formal compositional study, Kinsella didn't really know who to study with. "I think I always secretly said to myself, you really have to make your own way in this area; it's not a subject you can study."
The work and the study became as one. And he was fortunate that his early passion for music evoked a very sympathetic response within his family. "I'm very grateful to my father for the fact that he used to buy me scores. I was always interested in listening to music. Even before the age of 10, I was always heavily affected by certain pieces of music. I built up a library of scores very quickly and I got into the habit of always having the score, if possible, when I was listening to something." This is where he got his schooling, soaking in, as he puts it, anything he could lay his hands on.
His early aspiration - and it sounds strange coming from a man so consistently soft-spoken and undemonstrative of gesture - was to cultivate a sense of the dramatic. "How far I went down that road or how much I achieved is, I suppose, open to debate. I like drama in music. I wouldn't say I prefer Handel to Bach, but I see characteristics in Handel that I would very much aspire to, if I could possibly get anywhere near them. Whereas Bach I just stand back from, and more or less wave the white flag."
He was stirred by Beethoven, too, and by Sibelius, whose name recurs more than that of any other composer. "You could hardly call him a dramatic composer, but there were certain things about the sounds he makes, the melodic turns and the kind of harmonic language he uses that I stuck to like a limpet straight away. I just loved it. It's an unquestioning kind of love that I have for his music, even though you can see the seamy sides at times. I don't mind about that. I didn't consciously model myself on anybody, but the influences are bound to show through."
The period of "apprenticeship" composition extended for a decade or more. The earliest work of Kinsella's that I've seen mentioned dates from 1959, and he talks musingly of deleting some of the earliest entries from his current work-list. By the mid-Sixties he found himself drawn by the attractions of serial composition, and some years later music became the centre of his career, when he moved from Player Wills (where he'd been a computer programmer) to the music department of RTE as a senior assistant. He rose through the ranks to become head of music in 1983, a post he held for five years before taking early retirement to concentrate on composition.
His work with RTE brought him exposure to a wide range of contemporary composition. "I was involved in going to the UNESCO Rostrum of Composers on behalf of RTE. I used to go to that every year in Paris for a week. On certain years you'd hear maybe up to 85 or 90 pieces of music. I had a surfeit of the `international' style that was coming through there; you weren't quite sure after a while whether you were listening to a North Korean composer or a Brazilian. And I began to lose an interest in the international style which was emerging from serialism. I tried to find my own path after that."
He sees his large-scale choral and orchestral work A Selected Life (1973, setting words by his brother, the poet Thomas Kinsella) as the last big work of his serial period. "In writing A Selected Life, there were certain techniques which I'd acquired which made it very easy to build up textures which seemed to work quite well. But I was always drawn to softening the edges of the music and asking it to say something simple. You'll even find in that work there are moments like that - which I regard as the more successful ones. I saw it as a very easy style to create works in, which maybe didn't draw out anything from yourself. The problem was to try and find a language where you were actually saying something individual, or you were actually giving something of yourself to it, rather than simply writing music. "I think the first work in my turnaround was a commission from the Arts Council to write something for the Pearse centenary in 1979. I wrote a piece based on the poem The Wayfarer. It was a 15-minute, orchestral dissertation on the poem, which was guided by the shape of the poem itself. I suppose I understood the nature of the commission to indicate that perhaps the style shouldn't be too way-out; and it just came at the moment when I was looking for something else. It was at a fortunate moment. That was the start of the more melodic style."
It was the conductor Albert Rosen who pointed out that an orchestral work called Essay was symphonic enough to work as the first movement of a symphony. The composer took the hint and finished his First Symphony in 1984 and his Second in 1988, reaching his Seventh last month (a commission from the Cork School of Music Symphony Orchestra) and is already raring to go on his Eighth.
He clearly feels at home with symphonies and quotes the American doyen Elliott Carter's alignment with the baroque for clarification. "I was reading Carter recently, who says he's more of a concerto grosso man than a symphonist - not that I would bracket myself with Carter, by a long shot. But I could see myself as more of a symphonist than a concerto grosso type."
The traditional symphonic crafts of motivic development and tonal tension are high among Kinsella's concerns. "The Fourth Symphony is based on one five-note motif, which is just a little turn. I tried to keep it going for 46 minutes, based on this little turn. The work is out on a Marco Polo CD now, so if anybody wants to follow it up, they can see what I'm talking about."
The Third Symphony, also on the CD, is being heard at the National Concert Hall tonight. "The Third fell into what I think is a kind of unique structure - two movements framed by an epilogue and prologue with an intermezzo binding the whole thing together, commenting on what's happening, summing up what's happened and setting out the pattern before it happens. The unfortunate person there is the first bassoon; all the weight falls on him to do all that. That particular symphony was written very quickly, which seems to be a good sign."
Since leaving RTE, Kinsella has been largely out of the public eye, although he has served on the board of the NCH and was a member of the group which produced the PIANO Report. He often sounds pessimistic about the state of musical life in Ireland, particularly as regards education, but he's more upbeat about the outcome of PIANO. "I think it's gotten somewhere, certainly in the orchestral end of things, insofar as the standing of music and the orchestras in RTE will be upped. That's some achievement, which I suppose is a kind of compromise game. You're not going to publish a report and have everything implemented and end up either in Valhalla - or wish you hadn't written it. I think a lot of it has been taken on board by RTE."
The members of the PIANO review body went on a fact-finding mission to Finland, a country of comparable population and period of independence to Ireland. "On a three-day visit there it was quite a sobering experience to find the standing that music had in the society at large." He lists the activity in schools, the Sibelius Academy, the choirs, and the fact of "finding 25 symphony orchestras in a country of five million people - and everything else in proportion to that! One could see straight away that in Ireland we hadn't even left the starting block as regards music."
From The Irish Times [9th April 2012]
Quote
A lifetime of obsession with symphonies
Irish composer John Kinsella has had a lifelong fascination with symphonies. Just turned 80, he discusses the process in preparing his eleventh, and which symphonies he thinks are the greatest.
What marks John Kinsella out from the crowd is the fact that he's an Irish composer obsessed with symphonies. It's not that there haven't been other Irish composers who've written symphonies. But nobody else has done so with the tenacity that Kinsella has shown. He didn't complete the work he numbered Symphony No 1 until 1984, the year he turned 52. His 10th was premiered earlier this year by the Irish Chamber Orchestra under Gábor Takács-Nagy, and given rousing receptions in Limerick and Dublin. And Kinsella, who turned 80 yesterday, is raring to get going on No 11.
He'll have to wait a while, though. His most recent project was a work for solo double bass. "Which is very current, because it's to do with the Titanic. The double-bass player David Daly, who plays in the Bournemouth Symphony Orchestra, his uncle was Eugene Daly, who was on the Titanic. He was a piper. He boarded at Queenstown with his wife and sister, and is reported to have played a tune called Erin's Lament as he went on board.
"David has found this tune by referring to the current Athlone Pipe Band. They dug it out for him, what they thought was the actual tune. I've written a sort of graphic thing about the whole Titanic experience, weaving this into it. I even heard reference to Eugene Daly on Newstalk last night. There's a new book out about the Titanic and it gave much more detail about his experiences, where he saw passengers being held in steerage, and a lot of them drowned as a result of that, and some of them were even shot by the crew.
"I've just finished that piece, and he's going to do it this year. And I've just started on a string quartet now, for the West Cork Chamber Music Festival in Bantry 2013. I'm very much at the beginning stages there, so it's kind of fraught. Slow progress, digging. That'll keep me going for about six months. Then I'd love to do a No 11."
Kinsella picked up the symphony bug as a youngster, when his father encouraged him and his older brother (the poet Thomas Kinsella), and he soaked up all the music he could through radio and live concerts.
Symphonies were always a big excitement. "The idea of these big structures, and the sense of adventure at the beginning of the work as to where you were going to go on this long journey and what you were going to hear and imagine. And then the culmination, perhaps, or the sorrow at the end. It just tapped into my nerve ends, the idea of a large piece of orchestral music like that. I simply couldn't get enough of classical music. But the symphony, being what it is, was the core of this experience. Going on from there, I always had the urge to write music, although I really knew nothing about it at all."
What makes a symphony a symphony for Kinsella is "the feeling that something important is to be said, rather than something entertaining, in the very best sense of the word". He muses over issues of providing contrast, balancing everything into a satisfying whole, getting the pacing right, finding novel formal solutions in a way that makes clear that the fascination is unending. When he talks about the great figures in the history of the symphony he often talks in terms of heaven and special degrees of love.
Haydn he cherishes for, "Optimism, endless energy, and an imagination that, within the terms he was dealing with, knew no bounds. A tremendous sense of fun, and one can pick that up from his string quartets as well, which parallel the symphonies." Mozart is "a voice from heaven. I can never understand Mozart. As time goes on he's just more and more of a mystery to me. He's the exact opposite to Beethoven, a man who dug his way through everything and echoes the human condition very clearly. Mozart seemed to rise above all that. I know he worked very hard, he revised a lot. But the spontaneity of the whole thing is incredible. And if you take his last three symphonies, that's still a pinnacle that people coming after him are very aware of and which in certain senses has never been equalled.
"Beethoven is the one I understand most. I've been reading a book recently by Barry Cooper on his compositional methods. It's an examination of the notebooks, divining from them how he went about the work of composition, including methods that I'd worked out myself – fairly mundane things, I'm not talking about anything on Beethoven's level, but working methods, I see that they're kind of paralleled in his way of trying to put things together. The slogging at ideas, the shaping and re-shaping.
"But there's a mystery in Beethoven to me. You get the sketchbooks and you have all these pregnant phrases which are ready to go. There's nothing about the actual work itself. There's nothing left behind about the intermediate stages of composition through a certain work. But he's still the one to aspire to, he really is. If I was made pick my hero, he's obviously the one. It's everlasting music. And he's totally indestructible, in the sense that if you hear amateur performers doing Beethoven, there's always an awful lot left at the end of it." And Beethoven gets Kinsella's vote for greatest symphony ever written. He sees Beethoven's Seventh as being "of a Grecian perfection".
Also on the shortlist would be Schubert's Ninth: "The freshness of melody, the rhythms, and then in the Ninth Symphony the overwhelming power of the whole thing still has the power to leave me completely flat." Schumann is "a special love", cherished for his melodic invention and his individual approach to form, and he has a grá, too, for Mendelssohn. "The Fourth Symphony, the Italian, is something I'd love to be able to write, I really would. I envy the man his skill. It's such an amazing work.
"In my early 20s, I couldn't get enough Brahms. That wore off. And I'm now re-entering a stage where again I can't get enough of him. His four symphonies are huge areas of discovery and enlightenment, and individuality of technique."
Tchaikovsky is a master envied for "his sense of orchestration and harmony, and the cleanliness of his sound". He sees Tchaikovsky, even in depressive mood, as healthy. Mahler, on the other hand, is not, and his music is "a problem, for me. There's no doubt he's a composer of the first rank. But his message to me is too depressive. I can't live with his music. I can admire it, and appreciate it. But I don't listen to Mahler by choice." He struggled with Bruckner, too: "I can stand back from a Bruckner symphony now, and appreciate it in the whole, and know what he's doing. The effect can be totally overwhelming. I think Bruckner symphonies are, if you like, the ideal symphony, because they do say something very important and very profound, and even manage to get very trite ideas in, but they're in the right place, in the right mixture."
He praises Nielsen for his "tremendous, gritty music", and admires Shostakovich as "a great man who's held the flag for the symphony right through the 20th century.
But the key 20th-century figure for him is Sibelius. "A complete love. He's somebody I associate with very closely. I feel there's some Nordic blood in my veins somewhere. Everything he says seems like something I want to say myself, that I can totally appreciate, and I find very strong resonances in his sounds. Sibelius I put up there with Beethoven."
His favourite among his own symphonies is the Third. "I think the proportions are just about right, although I've met people who argue very strongly otherwise. But I'm happy enough with that. I was happy with the way the 10th Symphony went recently. The audience reaction took me completely unawares. They stood and clapped. I was completely unnerved by that. I wasn't expecting it at all. It was helped by a tremendous, vigorous performance in each case.
"From a formal point of view, the Sixth and Seventh Symphonies I'm very happy with. The Eighth has a problem. It's only had one performance. It was an experiment with form, which I may have pushed the boundaries too far on for the content. On the other hand, I'd reserve judgement on that until the work could be given enough rehearsal time to realise it. It's a work that I put so much effort and energy into that I was in reasonably bad health for a while after it. So there must be something in it somewhere."
And the 10th, written for chamber orchestra rather than symphony orchestra, seems to have marked a turning point. It wasn't commissioned, and there was no performance in prospect when he composed it. "I deliberately wrote in a vacuum. I deliberately took my time over it. The Arts Council gave me a small grant, I was able to buy a lot of scores and recordings of other music that I took time out to listen to. I just made my own space. It had nothing to do with deadlines or anybody.
"I'd like to do the next one in the same way. I'm very much a fan of the smaller orchestra now. I think the smaller orchestra can in its own way almost say more. You're forced to say something, rather than just cover up with a trombone blast. Coming back to my greatest symphony ever written, Beethoven's Seventh, he only had two horns. And he made a big enough noise with that. I'm a very big fan of that. It may be something to do with the austerity of today. Lean and fit."
Quote from: aligreto on December 08, 2019, 07:48:56 AM
From The Irish Times [9th April 2012]
Very interesting Fergus and thanks for posting this. I agree with him about No.3.
Fantastic articles, thanks a lot for posting them. I absolutely relate to his analysis of the great symphonists of the past, and of his own third, which I admire for its perfect symmetry and concise working out of the musical material.
Cheers guys. I merely wanted to offer some insight and context into both Kinsella and his music.
Extensive and interesting readings, aligreto. Thanks for sharing them. As Kinsella, I'm also a huge fan and admirer of symphonies, sometimes becoming obsessed with them. If I were a composer, they would be the meat of my creations. ;D
I found Kinsella's sibelian 11th Symphony to be one of his greatest.
Quote from: vandermolen on December 10, 2019, 12:21:53 PM
I found Kinsella's sibelian 11th Symphony to be one of his greatest.
I am tending to agree. It made an immediate and profound impact on me when I heard it in live concert recently. I thought that impression and impact may have been the fact that it was live but the more that one hears it the more powerful it becomes, for me anyway.
Oddly enough, a couple months ago I listened to Kinsella's 3rd Symphony (Joie de Vivre), which is highly regarded on this forum by those with similar tastes as myself (;)), and came away rather underwhelmed. The music struck me a bit like watered-down Sibelius and Nielsen and not having too much memorable to say. I recall being more impressed with his 7th Symphony, which also bore the influence of these two composers but in a more inspired way IMO. Maybe I just wasn't in the right mood when listening to the 3rd? :-\
Quote from: kyjo on December 16, 2019, 10:06:03 AM
Oddly enough, a couple months ago I listened to Kinsella's 3rd Symphony (Joie de Vivre), which is highly regarded on this forum by those with similar tastes as myself (;)), and came away rather underwhelmed. The music struck me a bit like watered-down Sibelius and Nielsen and not having too much memorable to say. I recall being more impressed with his 7th Symphony, which also bore the influence of these two composers but in a more inspired way IMO. Maybe I just wasn't in the right mood when listening to the 3rd? :-\
Try the 4th Symphony
The Four Provinces. It's much more satisfying and memorable than the 3rd IMO.
Quote from: Symphonic Addict on December 16, 2019, 03:51:49 PM
Try the 4th Symphony The Four Provinces. It's much more satisfying and memorable than the 3rd IMO.
+1 for 'Try the 4th Symphony'.
I'm a great admirer of No.3 but when I lent the CD to the Head of Music at the school where I work he much preferred No.4. I'd also recommend 6 and 7 as well as the new Symphony 11.
Quote from: kyjo on December 16, 2019, 10:06:03 AM
I recall being more impressed with his 7th Symphony, which also bore the influence of these two composers but in a more inspired way IMO. Maybe I just wasn't in the right mood when listening to the 3rd? :-\
In that case - unthinkable with you, often the case with me - I must have been in the wrong mood many times, namely always while playing No. 3 and No. 7, as I happen to prefer the latter. 8)
Quote from: Symphonic Addict on December 16, 2019, 03:51:49 PM
Try the 4th Symphony The Four Provinces. It's much more satisfying and memorable than the 3rd IMO.
Perhaps it is, certainly it isn't less inspired than the Third, and together they make a wonderful cd, one of my favourite for many years, until the arrival of the coupling of No. 6 and 7, which I find equally succesful (a well-designed cd with a silly title):
(https://d27t0qkxhe4r68.cloudfront.net/t_900/886788796164.jpg?1429543305)
I think the main difference in listening appreciation of the 3rd and 4th symphonies lies in the importance Kinsella gave to the former's structure. It is cast in 2 movements with prelude, interlude and postlude, giving it a carefully designed arch form. IOW the container draws attention to itself to the detriment of the content. Or it might give that impression vs the more immediately appealing material of the 4th symphony. Kinsella the architect and then the painter, as it were.
Thanks for the responses, guys! I'll check out the 4th Symphony next.
Quote from: kyjo on December 17, 2019, 03:13:01 PM
Thanks for the responses, guys! I'll check out the 4th Symphony next.
Let us know what you think of it Kyle.
I concur with all those who have listened to his 11th Symphony in thinking of its sheer greatness. My goodness, this is mindblowing, epic, intense, terrific stuff, with noticeable echoes of Sibelius and others of Holmboe, perhaps. The use of the timpani was one of the highlights for me. I loved this.
:o
Quote from: Symphonic Addict on December 19, 2019, 02:34:03 PM
I concur with all those who have listened to his 11th Symphony in thinking of its sheer greatness. My goodness, this is mindblowing, epic, intense, terrific stuff, with noticeable echoes of Sibelius and others of Holmboe, perhaps. The use of the timpani was one of the highlights for me. I loved this.
The live performance was simply wonderful. It was a real tour de force. I will be interested to see [if it ever happens] whether a studio recording could ever capture the essence of the work.
Here is the YouTube link, which does not explicitly state that Kinsella's Symphony XI is contained in the video:
https://www.youtube.com/v/Xg15YzJ2XQY
I happen to work with a lady from Ireland, and today asked her about the Latinate sound of Kinsella's name, and whether his ancestors might come from the survivors of the Spanish Armada. She thought it highly likely, and also explained that the accent is on the KIN, not on the SEL.
Quote from: aligreto on December 20, 2019, 08:44:50 AM
:o
The live performance was simply wonderful. It was a real tour de force. I will be interested to see [if it ever happens] whether a studio recording could ever capture the essence of the work.
No wonder it was so! To attend such a special concert with the composer on stage must be a most unique experience. I hope the Symphony receives a proper recording soon, capturing the sheer essence of it.
Quote from: Symphonic Addict on December 20, 2019, 02:02:46 PM
No wonder it was so! To attend such a special concert with the composer on stage must be a most unique experience. I hope the Symphony receives a proper recording soon, capturing the sheer essence of it.
Yes, here is hoping that this will indeed happen.
I'm curious what you mean by "a proper recording". They could just release the premiere as audio. That's how we've got all these neglected works recorded and released on disc in recent years.
It is a good idea, but I would also prefer a recording without coughing nor people's noise, and with better sound engineering.
I listened to the 4th Symphony earlier and I regret to say that I was not very impressed. :-\ The opening was quite promising, but after that my attention often wandered. There were some pretty exciting passages in the third movement featuring the timpani, but I felt them to be too derivate of Nielsen (as in the finale of his 4th Symphony). Usually, I don't have a problem with composers taking inspiration from others, but often I feel like Kinsella is too directly derivative. Just my two cents! It's been a while since I've listened, but I do recall enjoying the music on the below disc quite a bit more than the 3rd and 4th Symphonies on the Marco Polo disc:
[asin]B004Z0PWJK[/asin]
On sale for 2.99€ At JPC, Kinsella's cello concerto:
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51EPHCuYC4L._AC_.jpg)
Alas, JPC still doesn't deliver to Canada :'(
https://www.reship.com/?gclid=CjwKCAiAq8f-BRBtEiwAGr3DgQpXvHr1by4PHudQD1rJyVfSETaK7T8jFhL8GtQsHI-xfks-rk6_1BoCp9cQAvD_BwE
Quote from: kyjo on December 22, 2019, 08:24:31 PM
I listened to the 4th Symphony earlier and I regret to say that I was not very impressed. :-\ The opening was quite promising, but after that my attention often wandered. There were some pretty exciting passages in the third movement featuring the timpani, but I felt them to be too derivate of Nielsen (as in the finale of his 4th Symphony). Usually, I don't have a problem with composers taking inspiration from others, but often I feel like Kinsella is too directly derivative. Just my two cents! It's been a while since I've listened, but I do recall enjoying the music on the below disc quite a bit more than the 3rd and 4th Symphonies on the Marco Polo disc:
[asin]B004Z0PWJK[/asin]
:o
My favourite is Symphony No.3. I like No.4 as well and find the final return of the 'prevailing wind' motto theme at the end very moving, but I can understand why Kyle's attention might have wandered during the work as a whole. My other favourite Kinsella disc features the 6th and 7th symphonies.
No 3 is indeed quite remarkable, with its peculiar structure unified by the recurrent bassoon solo.
Quote from: André on December 13, 2020, 04:03:35 AM
No 3 is indeed quite remarkable, with its peculiar structure unified by the recurrent bassoon solo.
Absolutely!
:)
Quote from: André on December 10, 2020, 05:05:29 AM
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51EPHCuYC4L._AC_.jpg)
I actually do not have the Kinsella Cello Concerto in my collection. I must get that CD.
I bought it a few weeks ago but haven't gotten to hear it yet. Coming soon !
Quote from: André on March 05, 2021, 04:03:11 PM
I bought it a few weeks ago but haven't gotten to hear it yet. Coming soon !
I have also ordered it. I look forward to your comments on the Kinsella Cello Concerto.
I await, with anticipation, the arrival of my copy of the CD.
Quote from: aligreto on March 06, 2021, 06:55:22 PM
I have also ordered it. I look forward to your comments on the Kinsella Cello Concerto.
I await, with anticipation, the arrival of my copy of the CD.
Good to see you posting again Fergus. I missed your contributions. :)
Quote from: aligreto on March 05, 2021, 01:01:12 PM
I actually do not have the Kinsella Cello Concerto in my collection. I must get that CD.
If my memory of that CD is correct, the Garrido-Lecca is well worth hearing.
But it's been a bit since I played it.
Quote from: JBS on March 07, 2021, 01:30:27 PM
If my memory of that CD is correct, the Garrido-Lecca is well worth hearing.
But it's been a bit since I played it.
Looking forward to hearing it when I eventually get it.
Quote from: vandermolen on March 06, 2021, 11:04:07 PM
Good to see you posting again Fergus. I missed your contributions. :)
Cheers, Jeffrey.
Kinsella: Cello Concerto [Prieto/Prieto]
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51EPHCuYC4L._AC_.jpg)
Well it finally arrived!
I really like this work. It is intense, atmospheric, and emotionally powerful and exciting. I like the relationship between the cello and the orchestra in the first movement. I also like the scoring and the musical language as well as the power and the intensity of the music. Prieto gets a wonderful tone from his instrument particularly in the lower registers. It practically growls. The intensity, drama and excitement are further enhanced with the tempo increase of the second movement. The scoring for the orchestra, which has a greater voice in the second movement, is wonderful in places with singing woodwinds and brass. Prieto plays with great passion and vibrancy throughout. The work is also tautly directed yet allowed to flow with the requisite forward momentum; the work unfolds very naturally. It is a very fine work indeed.
Quote from: aligreto on March 23, 2021, 06:12:45 AM
Kinsella: Cello Concerto [Prieto/Prieto]
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51EPHCuYC4L._AC_.jpg)
Well it finally arrived!
I really like this work. It is intense, atmospheric, and emotionally powerful and exciting. I like the relationship between the cello and the orchestra in the first movement. I also like the scoring and the musical language as well as the power and the intensity of the music. Prieto gets a wonderful tone from his instrument particularly in the lower registers. It practically growls. The intensity, drama and excitement are further enhanced with the tempo increase of the second movement. The scoring for the orchestra, which has a greater voice in the second movement, is wonderful in places with singing woodwinds and brass. Prieto plays with great passion and vibrancy throughout. The work is also tautly directed yet allowed to flow with the requisite forward momentum; the work unfolds very naturally. It is a very fine work indeed.
This encourages me to listen to this work again - buried somewhere in my collection. ::)
Quote from: vandermolen on March 23, 2021, 12:56:23 PM
This encourages me to listen to this work again - buried somewhere in my collection. ::)
Definitely worth another listen, Jeffrey.
John Kinsella passed away on November 9th, aged 89.
https://www.rte.ie/culture/2021/1110/1259060-composer-john-kinsella-dies-aged-89/ (https://www.rte.ie/culture/2021/1110/1259060-composer-john-kinsella-dies-aged-89/)
Quote from: Maestro267 on November 11, 2021, 08:51:24 AM
John Kinsella passed away on November 9th, aged 89.
https://www.rte.ie/culture/2021/1110/1259060-composer-john-kinsella-dies-aged-89/ (https://www.rte.ie/culture/2021/1110/1259060-composer-john-kinsella-dies-aged-89/)
Such sad news.
:o. That's really, really sad. His was such a compelling, original voice...
Quote from: André on November 11, 2021, 12:04:36 PM
:o. That's really, really sad. His was such a compelling, original voice...
Totally agree André
Just listened to the 4th Symphony 'The Four Provinces'. I found the final epic return of the 'prevailing wind' motto theme, at the end of the symphony, to be particularly moving and poignant this evening.
Quote from: vandermolen on November 11, 2021, 01:32:07 PM
Totally agree André
Just listened to the 4th Symphony 'The Four Provinces'. I found the final epic return of the 'prevailing wind' motto theme, at the end of the symphony, to be particularly moving and poignant this evening.
Always appreciative of your measured perspectives.
Thank you.
Listening to Symphony #5 for the second time today. I'm not entirely sold on symphonies with vocal sections, but this is growing on me. As with most folk probably, the Marco Polo 3 & 4 was my entry point to Kinsella, but there is a great deal to like about everything else I've poked so far.
Sad that it has taken Kinsella's death to send me his way.
Terrible news indeed. He was one of my favorite living composers, and certainly my favorite living symphonist. His last work in that form is terrific.
Quote from: foxandpeng on November 11, 2021, 04:08:08 PM
Listening to Symphony #5 for the second time today. I'm not entirely sold on symphonies with vocal sections, but this is growing on me. As with most folk probably, the Marco Polo 3 & 4 was my entry point to Kinsella, but there is a great deal to like about everything else I've poked so far.
Sad that it has taken Kinsella's death to send me his way.
Yes, I'm not fond of symphonies with vocal parts or narration either, but this one is a clear exception. Glad you're enjoying his symphonies. As far as I am concerned, I haven't heard any dull one by him.
I was alerted to him by a Gramophone review of the Marco Polo CD featuring symphonies 3 and 4, which compared his music to that of Lilburn and Tubin, two of my favourite composers. I played that CD over and over again (and played it again last night). I wrote to Kinsella (c/o RTE Dublin). I phoned RTE first (Kinsella had a distinguished career there for many years, as Head of Music, before taking early retirement to concentrate exclusively on composing) and they encouraged me to write and said that they'd forward my letter to him. I received the most lovely reply - the nicest I have ever received from a composer. He then arranged for me to be sent two CDs of music by Irish composers, which was very kind of him. My brother once met an Irish musician who described Kinsella as 'a hopeless administrator but lovely man' which made me smile.
Quote from: foxandpeng on November 11, 2021, 02:41:51 PM
Always appreciative of your measured perspectives.
Thank you.
Thank you Danny!
:)
PS I like your Tolstoy quote.
The website of the Irish broadcaster RTE have a number of Kinsella articles:
https://www.rte.ie/search/query/john%20kinsella/
Kinsella was a towering figure and a much regarded person in my country for a very long time. He will be a great loss and will be missed by very many people. Hopefully his wonderful musical legacy will live on and endure.
Quote from: aligreto on November 12, 2021, 02:18:18 AM
Kinsella was a towering figure and a much regarded person in my country for a very long time. He will be a great loss and will be missed by very many people. Hopefully his wonderful musical legacy will live on and endure.
I'm sure that it will Fergus.
I know that Johan (Christo), who is sadly still ill at the moment, will be sad by this news as he's a great admirer of Kinsella's music - he especially liked Symphony No.7 I recall.
Quote from: vandermolen on November 12, 2021, 04:35:26 AM
I'm sure that it will Fergus.
I know that Johan (Christo), who is sadly still ill at the moment, will be sad by this news as he's a great admirer of Kinsella's music - he especially liked Symphony No.7 I recall.
I hope that Johan will get well soon and can rekindle and enjoy his admiration for Kinsella's music and whatever else he enjoys listening to.
Quote from: aligreto on November 12, 2021, 05:37:44 AM
I hope that Johan will get well soon and can rekindle and enjoy his admiration for Kinsella's music and whatever else he enjoys listening to.
Me too Fergus. I've passed your kind message on to Johan. I'm sure that he will be pleased.
Now playing Kinsella's 6th Symphony.
The blurb on the front of the booklet accompanying my CD of Kinsella's 6th and 7th symphonies quotes BBC Radio 3:
'[Kinsella is] the most significant Irish symphonist since Stanford.' Actually I think Kinsella is a much greater and more original symphonist than Stanford (despite my liking for Stanford's 'Irish Symphony') as well as being a much nicer person.
Now playing - Symphony No.7 (live performance) which I now consider one of his greatest works:
(//)
'
Quote from: vandermolen on November 13, 2021, 09:08:14 AM
The blurb on the front of the booklet accompanying my CD of Kinsella's 6th and 7th symphonies quotes BBC Radio 3:
'[Kinsella is] the most significant Irish symphonist since Stanford.' Actually I think Kinsella is a much greater and more original symphonist than Stanford (despite my liking for Stanford's 'Irish Symphony') as well as being a much nicer person.
Now playing - Symphony No.7 (live performance) which I now consider one of his greatest works:
'
I think that is rather unfair to Stanford. These kind of comparisons can never really stand up due to different generations, evolved musical languages and musical idioms etc. I can understand the reference to originality but I wonder how financially successful Stanford would have been had he been more "radical" in his approach and not given his then conservative audience the type of music that they wanted. I am sure that there are some people out there who would still prefer to listen to the music of Stanford than that of Kinsella. I know of one personally [not me, by the way].
Quote from: aligreto on November 16, 2021, 01:48:47 AM
I think that is rather unfair to Stanford. These kind of comparisons can never really stand up due to different generations, evolved musical languages and musical idioms etc. I can understand the reference to originality but I wonder how financially successful Stanford would have been had he been more "radical" in his approach and not given his then conservative audience the type of music that they wanted. I am sure that there are some people out there who would still prefer to listen to the music of Stanford than that of Kinsella. I know of one personally [not me, by the way].
OT
I'm sure that you are right Fergus. I enjoy the 3rd and 5th Symphony (I have the Chandos boxed set of the symphonies and the Irish Rhapsodies) and the 4th Irish Rhapsody as well as the Piano Concerto No.2. I played his 6th Symphony the other day 'In Memory of GF Watts' and found it to be a terrible bore. His antisemitism ('Of course you Jews can't write tunes', said to his student Arthur Benjamin, who greatly admired Stanford) I find very unappealing. He was clearly a great teacher.
Quote from: vandermolen on November 16, 2021, 03:11:37 AM
OT
I'm sure that you are right Fergus. I enjoy the 3rd and 5th Symphony (I have the Chandos boxed set of the symphonies and the Irish Rhapsodies) and the 4th Irish Rhapsody as well as the Piano Concerto No.2. I played his 6th Symphony the other day 'In Memory of GF Watts' and found it to be a terrible bore. His antisemitism ('Of course you Jews can't write tunes', said to his student Arthur Benjamin, who greatly admired Stanford) I find very unappealing. He was clearly a great teacher.
I would be a bit more forthcoming with regard to his antisemitism tbh but I would probably be expelled from here for using non-genteel language and one was in no way trying to defend such appalling attitudes but merely trying to compare and put some context on the concept the "greatness" or otherwise of two composers from two completely different eras. [Not that you were trying to suggest otherwise, Jeffrey. You are too much of a gentleman to do otherwise.]