Otto Klemperer (14 May 1885 – 6 July 1973) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Otto_Klemperer) was a German conductor and composer. He is widely regarded as one of the leading conductors of the 20th century.[Wikipedia]
I could not find a thread on Klemperer, which I found a bit surprising. After all, it seems as if GMG should honor one of the most famous conductors of the 20th century? We have experienced a bit of a Klemperer revival over the last few years as EMI/Warner released an array of boxes focused on his legacy (http://www.prestoclassical.co.uk/llf/-/The%2BKlemperer%2BLegacy/1). What are your thoughts about Klemperer as a conductor and his recordings? Any favorite performances? Recommendations? Stories about his life?
A Klemperer discography. (http://www.archiphon.de/arde/discologica/OK-Disco-composer-WU.pdf)
Klemperer in about 1920
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/9e/Otto_Klemperer.jpg)
The great conductor Otto Klemperer (1885-1973) interviewed by John Freeman (1915-2014) in 1961 (From the BBC "Face to Face" TV series).
https://www.youtube.com/v/aoozdhcrIK8
Nice thread, Peter. I like the idea of having more threads dedicated to the performers.
Klemperer arranged the strings on stage with the violins seperated, that's one reason I've always enjoyed listening to his recordings, it adds a little more depth to his already detailed performance. With good headphones on this arrangement is highly effective.
My favorite from Klemperer is the Mozart set I purchased last year, a little heavy at times, but like I mentioned above its very detailed with tremendous playing, and in good sound. It's a set I truly treasure.
[asin]B00A4AHZZO[/asin]
Quote from: Moonfish on February 24, 2015, 12:48:07 AM
Any favorite performances?
I particularly like his Beethowen Pastoral Symphony (Philharmonia Orchestra) and his Mahler 7 (New Philh.) - both are of course 'late' recordings and both feature exceptionally slow tempi in places.
Quote from: aukhawk on February 24, 2015, 01:31:11 AM
I particularly like his Beethowen Pastoral Symphony (Philharmonia Orchestra) and his Mahler 7 (New Philh.) - both are of course 'late' recordings and both feature exceptionally slow tempi in places.
Aukhawk, are you referring to this 1957 recording of the 6th?
https://www.youtube.com/v/0D0dJJRY0qU
Quote from: TheGSMoeller on February 24, 2015, 01:22:15 AM
I like the idea of having more threads dedicated to the performers.
I completely agree with you there
Greg! :) I find it fascinating to focus on not only the recordings, but the life and times as well as the careers of the artists.
Do you like Klemperer's Bruckner recordings? I came across Bruckner's 6th a couple of hours ago and thought about you! ;)
Quote from: Moonfish on February 24, 2015, 01:43:23 AM
I completely agree with you there Greg! :) I find it fascinating to focus on not only the recordings, but the life and times as well as the careers of the artists.
Do you like Klemperer's Bruckner recordings? I came across Bruckner's 6th a couple of hours ago and thought about you! ;)
His 6th is very good, often cited as one of the greatest 6ths available. I do think he rushed through the Adagio too quickly, but otherwise its very good.
It made the final four of the blind comparison, ;D
I probably have to get the Mozart set eventually, although I do not really want it because I already have 2-3 single discs with the pieces most important to me. Of the newish cheap boxes I only bought the "romantic symphonies" because of everything else I had almost all recordings I really wanted. Some of the (late) recordings can be too slow and stodgy and at least at this stage he was not really the man for lighter or humourous pieces but I generally like his work a lot. (And some of his earlier recordings before his health deteriorated are very fast; I think the ca. 1950 recording of Mahler's 2nd symphony is one of the fastest on records.)
As someone wrote because of the divided violins and the special care for the woodwinds the recordings have almost always tremendous clarity for the vintage.
Favorites include:
Mozart symphonies 25, 31, 34 and 36
Haydn 102 and 104
Beethoven Fidelio and Missa solemnis
Schubert b minor symphony
Mendelssohn's Italian symphony
Brahms' 1st symphony and German Requiem
Bruckner's 4th, 6th and 7th
Mahler's 2nd, 9th and especially the Lied von der Erde with Wunderlich/Ludwig
Quote from: aukhawk on February 24, 2015, 01:31:11 AM
I particularly like his Beethowen Pastoral Symphony (Philharmonia Orchestra) ...
I much prefer his Pastoral Symphony with the Vienna Symphony orchestra on Vox to the Philharmonia version. The Vox is mono, but the piece benefits very much from the more rural sound of the Viennese instruments.
I'm an avid collector of Klemperer. A fascinating man, great musician, and key historical figure, IMO. He was also brilliantly recorded. Unlike Furtwangler, where you have to hear the performance through the bad sound, sometimes with Klemp I wonder if I am over-valuing the performance due to the fantastically rich and detailed recordings (or, is he in some way responsible for this through his decisions as a conductor? In vol 1 of his bio, it mentions his making some controversial changes in the Beethoven scores so as to "un-clog" the sound in places. This is when he was a young man, and there are no recordings of these. I cannot afford the second volume, so don't know if he continued the practice in his later career). I hope there are a lot more posts in this thread. A lot of things to talk about.
Thanks Moonfish for creating this thread!
I've been on a Klemp kick for weeks since I began to study his recording of Mahler's Das Lied von der Erde.
I've collected most of the new boxes and have been enjoying hearing his Berlioz, Beethoven, Mozart, Schumann and Mendelssohn so far!
Otto Klemperer - Behind every great conductor
By Norman Lebrecht / July 30, 2003
(https://musicofilia.wordpress.com/files/2009/05/lkok.gif)
I wonder whether any young woman today would do what Lotte did, and give up her life for the sake of her father and his art. Lotte was the only daughter of Otto Klemperer, the conductor who, more than any other, made Berlin a byword for musical modernism in the 1920s and London a benchmark for orchestral excellence in the 1960s.
He could not have achieved these transformat ions unaided. Klemperer suffered from a severe form of cyclothymic illness which, in manic phases, provoked arrest and disgrace, and in depressive mood, brought him close to self-destruction. Without a responsible relative in constant attendance, Klemperer could not have fulfilled his invaluable musical duties. Even now, 30 years after his death, every British orchestra contains players whose standards were set by Klemperer, and whose eyes glisten at the mention of his name.
The first to look after him was his long-suffering wife, Johanna - long-suffering because when Klemperer was on a high he was beset by satyriasis, recklessly pursuing every woman within arm's reach. Gustav Mahler's daughter, Anna, once found herself chased by him around a dining table. Knowing that he had been close to both her parents, she breathlessly sought to preserve dignity and friendship. "Dr Klemperer," she gasped, "in Bach's B-minor mass, rehearsal figure 48, is that top note F or F-sharp?" Klemperer stopped as if stunned and delivered a magisterial analysis of the work. Music was the only interest that could override his furious compulsions.
Johanna saw him through the glory years at Berlin's Kroll Opera, where he presented popular classics in radical reconstructions, along with new operas by Weill and Janaek, to an audience comprised of factory and office workers. What Klemperer did at the Kroll remains a utopian model for 21st century opera houses. It was, inevitably, anathema to the Nazis.
The family left Germany a month after Hitler seized power. Lotte was nine and a comfort to her father in the bewilderment of exile. "Dr Klemperer," said an orchestral administrator in Los Angeles, "you and I have become such good friends that from now on I'm gonna call you 'Otto'." "You may call," growled Klemperer, "but I vill not come."
In 1939 he underwent surgery for a brain tumour and emerged with one side of his face paralysed, his tongue atrophied and his behaviour even more erratic. Johanna refused to commit him to a mental institution, but Klemperer walked out on her, saying he needed a year's freedom. He went careering around the country with the wife of the Utah Symphony music director, Maurice Abravanel, leaving a trail of unpaid bills. Reported missing on the front page of the New York Times, he was arrested and displayed in the next day's papers behind bars. Released on bail, he faced a mob of reporters, with Lotte acting as mediator and interpreter. She was 17 and had already been thrust into her life's mission.
Most American orchestras, scandalised by Klemperer's conduct, crossed him off their books. After a concert in Los Angeles, he went walkabout and was found beaten up in a gutter. A 1947 tour of Europe was peppered with madcap incidents, winding up in Budapest where Klemperer took charge of the State Opera and Lotte flirted with communism until they were nudged out.
Back in America, he was blacklisted for serving on the wrong side of the Iron Curtain and refused a passport extension. In November 1954, he was holed up, flat broke, in a fleapit New York hotel when a young agent, chancing his luck, asked him to conduct a concert in Portland, Oregon. Klemperer balked at travelling 3,000 miles for a single gig, but Lotte and the agent fell "half in love" and she persuaded her father to take the date. It marked a turning point in post-war musical destiny.
In Portland, Klemperer ripped an epochal Beethoven Seventh out of the unbelieving fingers of provincial musicians, most of whom had never played it before. The agent, Ronald Wilford, made his name overnight and went on to become the mightiest commercial force in musical America. Klemperer was given a passport and flew to London, where the producer Walter Legge wanted him to conduct the Philharmonia, EMI's recording band.
In a city awash with orchestras-that played just about as well as required and seldom better, Klemperer fired the Philharmonia with an unEnglish excess of aspiration and self-belief. He conceived each work as a structural integrity, revealing its contours from the opening bars and giving musicians and listeners alike an extraordinary confidence in their comprehension of the work. Every concert seemed to have been programmed as an act of human necessity. At the end of his inaugural Beethoven cycle, the jubilation was so exuberant that the London County Council commissioned a bust of Klemperer from Jacob Epstein for the Royal Festival Hall, where it stands to this day.
He continued to court disaster, suffering near-fatal burns when his pipe caught fire in bed and he tried to extinguish it with a whisky flask. In the public eye he was brutally forthright, never more so than on John Freeman's Face To Face television programme. With London musicians he was alternately rough-tongued and paternal, handing out cigarettes to the ones who pleased him. When Legge disbanded the Philharmonia in 1964, Klemperer gave his allegiance to the players, investing them with his own rugged independence and securing the orchestra's survival.
None of this could have come about without Lotte's devotion. Her tongue could be as rough as his when dealing with the fixers of the record industry, but she had the charm and wit to ease most vicissitudes, never presuming to control his life. One morning, bringing the old man his breakfast tray, she found him in bed with a young woman. "This is my daughter, Lotte," grunted Klemperer by way of introduction, "and you - what did you say your name was?"
To feminists, Lotte's must appear a wasted life, a voluntary form of child sacrifice that postmodern times have made redundant. She died this month, aged 79, at her home outside Zurich, unknown beyond the backstage of concert halls and with few tributes to mark her passing.
Intellectual, attractive and formidably capable, Lotte could have made a very different life for herself. When I asked once whether she had ever considered it, she politely ignored my impertinence.
She had made a calculated career choice to be her father's helper, a role that was no less valid in her eyes than the heady ascent of women politicians, artists and CEOs. In 1954, Lotte wrote that her parents' plight had "made me resentful, furious and ... ambitious". By facilitating her father's fulfilment, her achievement will resonate for ever on record and in our concert life. The Philharmonia will soon announce a musical tribute in memory of Lotte Klemperer.
Some years ago I wrote this review of Klemperer's 1971 account of Mahler's 2nd.
Anne Finley, soprano
Alfreda Hodgson, contralto
New Philharmonia Chorus & Orchestra
Otto Klemperer, cond.
Recording: Royal Festival Hall, London, 16 May 1971
https://www.youtube.com/embed/gl-7MBjzTvM
released on Arkadia in the early 90s:
(http://cps-static.rovicorp.com/3/JPG_500/MI0001/091/MI0001091080.jpg?partner=allrovi.com)
This performance is a kind dissection or surgery, as if Mahler is having an operation. It is as if the score is being scrutinized for any last shred of possible meaning and subjectivity and cut out like a disease and placed under a microscope for study. The interpetation is more from the viewpoint of Klemperer (with scapel in hand) rather than Mahler, but I find this a very moving performance...focused and strong, and very dark at the beginning, which largely persists until the Urlicht movement, which shines like the sun with the appearance of a human voice. Klemperer's view with the Andante is perhaps the saddest of any recording I've encountered. Klemperer seems to magnify the 'disease' under his microscope here and there is no cure. The way the music fades at the end of the Andante, the way the strings somehow disappear is not unlike the 9th Symphony Adagio or the last bars of Das Lied Von der Erde. The Scherzo makes me feel we have been left outside the operating room, with only a window to look into to witness a precedure unknown in our experience.
The Finale really feels like a narrative epic...a convincing path to light from darkness. The light, however, is reflected in sorrow. There are moments when everything breaks down and even sounds like Ives at his most chaotic. The percussion crescendo is very industrial and primal beyond description...it slowly stirs...the dead are drying to dig from the earth, and the struggle is heard in all it's passion...as if earth is hanging on to the dead. Towards the end the performance actually reaches into the spiritual, which I didn't expect based on what I've already heard. The last time I heard such an arresting M2 was when I first heard Scherchen's unique account. Not everyone will dig this, but for me this is a performance to savor for special occasions.
His Mahler Two is unlistenable, not only are the tempos slow and crackers but he doesn't have the measure of the idiom or the passion. Quite an indication of how a great artist can get something totally wrong.
His Das Lied of course is superb.
Just to point out, Klemperer actually did both the fastest and slowest versions of Mahler 2. His Sydney one from 1950 is 67 minutes; his New Philharmonia one from 1971 takes 98. The timings for the finale says it all: 27 for the Sydney one, 42 for the New Philharmonia one!
(someone posted this anectote on the M-List)
1961, Otto recording Bach's St. Matthew Passion for EMI. All the solo singers and half the chorus are complaining that Klemperer's tempi are too slow for them to sing, they're running out of breath, so they elect Dietrich Fischer-Dieskau to talk to him.
DFD: Dr. Klemperer?
OK: Ja, Fischer?
DFD: Last night I had a dream. Bach came to me and said, "I'm glad that you're singing in my St. Matthew Passion, but why so slow?"
OK: You know, it's funny. Last night I had a dream, too. Bach came to me and said, "I'm glad you're recording my St. Matthew Passion, but - who is this Fischer?"
:)
Quote from: Leo K. on February 26, 2015, 01:37:27 PM
(someone posted this anectote on the M-List)
1961, Otto recording Bach's St. Matthew Passion for EMI. All the solo singers and half the chorus are complaining that Klemperer's tempi are too slow for them to sing, they're running out of breath, so they elect Dietrich Fischer-Dieskau to talk to him.
DFD: Dr. Klemperer?
OK: Ja, Fischer?
DFD: Last night I had a dream. Bach came to me and said, "I'm glad that you're singing in my St. Matthew Passion, but why so slow?"
OK: You know, it's funny. Last night I had a dream, too. Bach came to me and said, "I'm glad you're recording my St. Matthew Passion, but - who is this Fischer?"
:)
That's funny. Thanks for sharing, Leo.
Klemperer's account of Mahler's 7 is in my "M7 Top 4" actually. It sits alongside Horenstein's, Scherchen's (in Toronto) and Haenchen's accounts. It is radical, it is a mutant and I love it. I just received this new (EMI Japanese) release, the others I've heard from this "HQ" series are astounding.
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41PGyZvBf7L.jpg)
I sometimes feel Klemp unconsciously (or through illness) crossed over into the avant garde "conceptual" movement that was real big in the 60's. Of course, in conceptual art the idea was more important than the actual product or final execution. Klemp seemed to create 'happenings' or 'performance-art' rather than conventional performances where the musical narrative is more important. Klemp reminds me of Glenn Gould, another musician who makes me think of conceptual art. Actually, Charles Ives is another 'conceptual' musician.
Quote from: TheGSMoeller on February 26, 2015, 01:42:09 PM
That's funny. Thanks for sharing, Leo.
Thanks!
Here's another (again...saw this on the M-list):
Harold C. Schonberg in his book The Great Conductors related a couple more Klemperer stories. Once Klemperer actually said "Good" to a player, such a rare event that the orchestra broke into applause. Then Klemp growled, "It was not THAT good."
Another time toward the end of a rehearsal Klemperer was apparently aware only of the music. The concertmaster looked at his watch; he looked again, making a production out of it; finally he nearly waved it under Klemperer's nose. The maestro asked, "Is it going?"
Quote from: Leo K. on February 26, 2015, 01:26:55 PM
Just to point out, Klemperer actually did both the fastest and slowest versions of Mahler 2. His Sydney one from 1950 is 67 minutes; his New Philharmonia one from 1971 takes 98. The timings for the finale says it all: 27 for the Sydney one, 42 for the New Philharmonia one!
Thanks Leo. By the way the Penguin Guide review of this performance is strangely incorrect, even saying the first movement tempo is brisk when it's a big yawn.
Three great performances- Eroica 1962, Don Giovanni, Schubert 5 & 8.
The Eroica first movement is the greatest and probably the greatest possible performance.
Of his Bruckner, I think the live 4th with the BRSO is still one of the top 4ths (beautifully recorded in stereo, a rarity for an early 60s live recording). I don't like the studio Fidelio much, but I'm very fond of the Magic Flute.
The Das Lied is also still tops, and the 24/96 download sounds fantastic, though I suspect that's just the mastering.
The Mozart Symphonies and "Romantic Symphonies & Overtures" boxes are essential.
(quotes from the rec.musical.classical newsgroup)
"When I was a student, I wrote a paper comparing performances of Brahms 1st
symphony, 4th movement to see how faithfully they adhere to the score, with
particular emphasis on the two introductory sections and the coda (as well as
the section leading into it). I was especially interested to see how tempos
were handled and whether ritards/accelerandos/slower tempi were added in or
ignored in the score. If memory serves, I listened to every recording of the
piece in the library at New England Conservatory (about 20 or so) in
preparation for writing the paper, and all were by conductors I had heard of
at that time. Klemperer's was the *only* one of that group of performances
that did the piece exactly as marked in the score."
-------------------
"In the book Conversations with Klemperer, Klemp himself answered the
question about whether there is a "Klemperer sound" by saying there is -
- characterized by prominence of the woodwinds and a concentration on
the upbeat (the latter he said he learned from Toscanini -- that the
preparation is much more important than the downbeat). He also noted
that a conductor must allow the musicians (and the music) to breathe."
--------------------
"One of the greats for me, for all the reasons given by the rest of the
Klemperer fans. As to the
sound quality he got from EMI, I couldn't disagree more. Yes, the Angel
pressings were usually
awful, but do try Klemperer on CD. The sound on the "Klemperer Legacy"
discs I have is absolutely superb, wonderfully detailed and warm. I got
hooked on Klemperer only recently from his Schumann 1st and Mendelssohn #4.
I've always loved Bernstein / NYP in the Schumann, but the wind details and
dialogs between the (clearly divided) violins have never registered like
this. In the Mendelssohn, I compared for a friend her (*** Penguin) Abbado
/ LSO. First movement very fast, violins massed to the left, and generally
pretty thick sounding. With Klemp, the room opens up, putting the DG
digital sound to shame. Much slower with every wonderful detail
registering, the violins talk to each other, leaving no doubt in my mind
that Mendelssohn wrote these passages with divided violins clearly in mind.
Slower yes, and infinitely sunnier. "Sounds like a musician next to a
technician" was a perfect summation.
One Klemperer favorite of mine I don't see mentioned is his Symphony
Fantastique. I've always leaned heavily in favor of the manic approach
(Munch, Bernstein EMI, Freesia), so I approached this one with some
trepidation. Here's the timings (source of trepidation) compared to Munch
'54.
16:17 (with repeat), 6:41, 18:10, 5:06, 10:49
13:18 (sans repeat), 6:06, 13:50, 4:29, 8:41
With Munch, and the others I mention, it's right to neurosis, Klemperer's
first mvt. is dreamlike and mysterious, with a real sense of a decline in
the works. His waltz is the best ever, full of details I'd missed (love the
harp). Slow, yes, but the whole things sways magically. He also uses the
cornets, and unlike some others (Davis comes to mind), allows them to be
heard. I've always thought mvt.iii a weak link in this work, but not here.
18:10 of more magic. Mvt. iv becomes "Dragged to the Scaffold",
tremendously ominous and powerful with great brass playing. His finale is
just right for all that's come before, plenty of punch without ever whipping
up the tempo. I still like manic, but wouldn't want to be without this
one. Klemperer's is a Fantastique to sit back and get lost in."
Mozart:
Serenade No 12 K.388/384a
Symphony No 41 K.551
Wiener Philharmoniker/Klemperer
I recently acquired a set of recordings from Testament. Just listened to the first disk with some live Mozart with Klemperer and the WP. At first I was a bit surprised at the live ambience and the vivid sound. The microphones must have been very close up as the WP sounded like they literally were in my living room. I need to give it another listen, but I had a great time. The performances definitely had their own unique flavor. Even the Jupiter warhorse (which I actually have avoided for a while) sounded fresh and powerful in this recording. Perhaps I am a sucker for the WP...? Now I am curious about what else is in this Testament compilation?
from
[asin] B000A0HFUS[/asin]
What a great thread. I knew he had illness and a somewhat turbulent life, but not to nearly the extent Lebrecht has illustrated. We so often almost missed out on him. There were so many occasions that could have ended his career before his long Indian summer. I watched the interview, how times change. In England at the period of the interview, he could not often programme Mahler or Stravinsky, as such modern music had little boxoffice appeal.
There are some recording that I have cherrished for years that I have not noticed so far on the thread. His Brahms Requiem is still my go-to version despite flirting with quit a few more modern recordings. It is massive, quite slow, but with an inevitability about the pulse and it is quite overwhelming. The same qualities invest an earlier Mahler 2 than was reviewed above, it has Ferrier and Schwarzkopf in it. Passages take on a mechanistic drive, a propultion that I don't think other conductors found, fascinating music making.
His Magic Flute, again my favourite, despite the lack of dialogue, or sparkle. He finds a heiratic solemnity that absolutely avoids dragging or being turgid. No one else has invested the duet of the armed men with such an elevated approach, it becomes a highlight of the music. Of course, the astonishing cast helps a lot.
I don't get along with his Bach which I do find too slow. His Bruckner, Beethoven and Mahler are terrific, especially that Das Lied which has never been out of the catalogues.
Mike
But the Brahms Requiem is overall not very slow (it might be in a few movements). I like it a lot, except for Schwarzkopf who really spoils the movement with the soprano solo (about as far from comforting like a mother as I could imagine...).
Quote from: Moonfish on March 11, 2015, 10:36:27 PM
Mozart:
Serenade No 12 K.388/384a
Symphony No 41 K.551
Wiener Philharmoniker/Klemperer
I recently acquired a set of recordings from Testament. Just listened to the first disk with some live Mozart with Klemperer and the WP. At first I was a bit surprised at the live ambience and the vivid sound. The microphones must have been very close up as the WP sounded like they literally were in my living room. I need to give it another listen, but I had a great time. The performances definitely had their own unique flavor. Even the Jupiter warhorse (which I actually have avoided for a while) sounded fresh and powerful in this recording. Perhaps I am a sucker for the WP...? Now I am curious about what else is in this Testament compilation?
from
[asin] B000A0HFUS[/asin]
I recently got this too and will dive in soon. I got it for the live Mahler 9, but all of these performances I hear are fantastic. After hearing the studio German Requiem (recently for the first time) I'm excited to hear the live account in this box. Aces!
Quote from: knight66 on March 11, 2015, 11:33:37 PM
What a great thread. I knew he had illness and a somewhat turbulent life, but not to nearly the extent Lebrecht has illustrated. We so often almost missed out on him. There were so many occasions that could have ended his career before his long Indian summer. I watched the interview, how times change. In England at the period of the interview, he could not often programme Mahler or Stravinsky, as such modern music had little boxoffice appeal.
There are some recording that I have cherrished for years that I have not noticed so far on the thread. His Brahms Requiem is still my go-to version despite flirting with quit a few more modern recordings. It is massive, quite slow, but with an inevitability about the pulse and it is quite overwhelming. The same qualities invest an earlier Mahler 2 than was reviewed above, it has Ferrier and Schwarzkopf in it. Passages take on a mechanistic drive, a propultion that I don't think other conductors found, fascinating music making.
His Magic Flute, again my favourite, despite the lack of dialogue, or sparkle. He finds a heiratic solemnity that absolutely avoids dragging or being turgid. No one else has invested the duet of the armed men with such an elevated approach, it becomes a highlight of the music. Of course, the astonishing cast helps a lot.
I don't get along with his Bach which I do find too slow. His Bruckner, Beethoven and Mahler are terrific, especially that Das Lied which has never been out of the catalogues.
Mike
Thank you for your thoughts! As I mentioned above I've been newly listening to Klemp's German Requiem and I'm absolutely blown away. I've acquired all eleven of those new box sets, the Klemperer Legacy series, and have been digging deep.
Another revelation has been Klemp's Mendelssohn and Schumann. There's so many great things in these boxes. The Marriage of Figaro recording...Wow! That was one I missed all these years.
Leo, After reading this thread, I have ordered a box set of live Bruckner with all the Beethoven Symphonies. Also, I have ordered one of the remastered boxes, Wagner and Strauss. So, mouth watering, I wait...
I forgot about his Brahms symphonies and as you mention his Schumann. I used to have an LP of his Mendelssohn Midsummer Night's Dream, but I remember nothing about it, which is about my insights, not his music making....I may go and look for it. He did a Don Giovanni, but I did not enjoy the women's voices, the Figaro would certainly not be a problem on that score.
Mike
Quote from: knight66 on March 12, 2015, 01:12:25 PM
Leo, After reading this thread, I have ordered a box set of live Bruckner with all the Beethoven Symphonies. Also, I have ordered one of the remastered boxes, Wagner and Strauss. So, mouth watering, I wait...
I forgot about his Brahms symphonies and as you mention his Schumann. I used to have an LP of his Mendelssohn Midsummer Night's Dream, but I remember nothing about it, which is about my insights, not his music making....I may go and look for it. He did a Don Giovanni, but I did not enjoy the women's voices, the Figaro would certainly not be a problem on that score.
Mike
Aces! The Wagner box is another amazing set, including the first act of Walkure. I've started with the overtures and love the sound quality of the Philharmonia. I'm locked in by Klemperer's pacing, his grand scale readings that don't sacrifice details, in fact he revels in orchestral details!
The Figaro account is a fascinating listen. The pacing is much slower and won't be to everyone's taste, but it's like peering into the score with a microscope. Details are captured, not just instruments but rhythms not heard in other accounts. It's transparent like HIP but not lacking in heaviness or an epic elevated outlook.
I own only a few Klemperer discs (Brahms 1, Bruckner 6), but I've always enjoyed this electrifying performance of the 9th:
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/61K5KF9FmfL._SX425_.jpg)
Quote from: Leo K. on March 07, 2015, 05:41:00 PM
(quotes from the rec.musical.classical newsgroup)
"In the book Conversations with Klemperer, Klemp himself answered the
question about whether there is a "Klemperer sound" by saying there is -
- characterized by prominence of the woodwinds and a concentration on
the upbeat (the latter he said he learned from Toscanini -- that the
preparation is much more important than the downbeat). He also noted
that a conductor must allow the musicians (and the music) to breathe."
One Klemperer favorite of mine I don't see mentioned is his Symphony
Fantastique. I've always leaned heavily in favor of the manic approach
(Munch, Bernstein EMI, Freesia), so I approached this one with some
trepidation. Here's the timings (source of trepidation) compared to Munch
'54.
16:17 (with repeat), 6:41, 18:10, 5:06, 10:49
13:18 (sans repeat), 6:06, 13:50, 4:29, 8:41
With Munch, and the others I mention, it's right to neurosis, Klemperer's
first mvt. is dreamlike and mysterious, with a real sense of a decline in
the works. His waltz is the best ever, full of details I'd missed (love the
harp). Slow, yes, but the whole things sways magically. He also uses the
cornets, and unlike some others (Davis comes to mind), allows them to be
heard. I've always thought mvt.iii a weak link in this work, but not here.
18:10 of more magic. Mvt. iv becomes "Dragged to the Scaffold",
tremendously ominous and powerful with great brass playing. His finale is
just right for all that's come before, plenty of punch without ever whipping
up the tempo. I still like manic, but wouldn't want to be without this
one. Klemperer's is a Fantastique to sit back and get lost in."
I'm so glad you've mentioned Klemperer's
Symphonie Fantastique. It isn't a Klemperer performance that gets mentioned often yet it's the one that really opened my ears to his genius as a conductor. When I first began collecting classical recordings, George Szell quickly became my favorite conductor which may go some way toward explaining why I tended to avoid Klemperer like the proverbial plague. What little I heard of his work sounded dull, leaden, and painfully slow. Then, at some point in my collecting, I happened to hear Klemperer's EMI recording of the
Symphonie and it was like I was hearing it for the first time (the one recording I had of the piece was Karajan/BPO) because, frankly, I was. Klemperer's more measured tempi allowed me to hear instrumental lines in the music I'd literally never heard before in more frantic performances. He did, indeed, as you quote him above, allow the music to breathe. I began listening to more Klemperer and, again and again, had the same experience: music I'd been listening to for years I seemed to really hear for the first time.
Klemperer became my favorite conductor and I became something of a Klemperer completist, purchasing just about every Klemperer recording/performance available. This is not to suggest I like Klemperer no matter what. I've never liked his EMI recordings of the last three Tchaikovsky symphonies, for instance, nor am I a big fan of his Bach B-minor Mass or the EMI Brahms' First (which may be odd since it is hailed as a benchmark performance by so many). But I listen to more performances by Klemperer than any other conductor.
I might also say that I'm no longer the completist I once was. By the time Klemperer began really committing his interpretations to vinyl thanks to Vox and, especially EMI, his once wide-ranging repertoire had narrowed pretty much to the Austro-Germanic classical tradition of Beethoven/Brahms/Bruckner/Mendelssohn/Schumann/Mozart/Haydn and some Mahler and, to my ears at least, the interpretations themselves were pretty set, without hugely significant differences from performance to performance save for the vagaries of an orchestra having an off night in a live performance or the fact his tempos did typically get slower still toward the end. After awhile, I'd amassed 300+ Klemperer recordings, including, for example, six different Beethoven Fifth Symphonies, and how many different Klemperer Beethoven Fifths does a person need? I'm glad the EMI recordings are being reboxed and reissued for the benefit of those who've yet to discover the glories of Klemperer but I have them all in earlier incarnations. In fact, I haven't bought a Klemperer recording in quite awhile.
Right, that's it.....enough already. I have been so interested in the Berlioz, that having read Dave's post, I have ordered it.....the third order in two days.....so now I am going to bury my credit card in the garden, deep.
Also today I have been listening to K's Cosi Fan Tutti and enjoying it. I have just posted about it on a Da Ponte thread in the vocal section.
So far unmentioned are his terrific recordings of Fidelio, I give the edge to the live performance and his Missa Solemnis, which is much admired but which is spoilt for me by the soprano whose voice I cn't get along with.
Mike
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51ftPJXXfSL._SY355_.jpg)
I've been listening (for the first time) to Klemp's Vox recording of Das Lied von der Erde from March, 1951. I was taken aback right from the beginning. It's much faster than his later EMI account but so detailed and rhythmic, and doesn't feel rushed at all. The orchestra is great. There is a horn player that really soars, playing with such confidence and flair, I love it! The work's orchestration sounds modern and prickly with no sentimentality. I'm going to have to track down his Vox recordings!
Quote from: revdrdave on March 13, 2015, 09:32:43 AM
I'm so glad you've mentioned Klemperer's Symphonie Fantastique. It isn't a Klemperer performance that gets mentioned often yet it's the one that really opened my ears to his genius as a conductor. When I first began collecting classical recordings, George Szell quickly became my favorite conductor which may go some way toward explaining why I tended to avoid Klemperer like the proverbial plague. What little I heard of his work sounded dull, leaden, and painfully slow. Then, at some point in my collecting, I happened to hear Klemperer's EMI recording of the Symphonie and it was like I was hearing it for the first time (the one recording I had of the piece was Karajan/BPO) because, frankly, I was. Klemperer's more measured tempi allowed me to hear instrumental lines in the music I'd literally never heard before in more frantic performances. He did, indeed, as you quote him above, allow the music to breathe. I began listening to more Klemperer and, again and again, had the same experience: music I'd been listening to for years I seemed to really hear for the first time.
Klemperer became my favorite conductor and I became something of a Klemperer completist, purchasing just about every Klemperer recording/performance available. This is not to suggest I like Klemperer no matter what. I've never liked his EMI recordings of the last three Tchaikovsky symphonies, for instance, nor am I a big fan of his Bach B-minor Mass or the EMI Brahms' First (which may be odd since it is hailed as a benchmark performance by so many). But I listen to more performances by Klemperer than any other conductor.
I might also say that I'm no longer the completist I once was. By the time Klemperer began really committing his interpretations to vinyl thanks to Vox and, especially EMI, his once wide-ranging repertoire had narrowed pretty much to the Austro-Germanic classical tradition of Beethoven/Brahms/Bruckner/Mendelssohn/Schumann/Mozart/Haydn and some Mahler and, to my ears at least, the interpretations themselves were pretty set, without hugely significant differences from performance to performance save for the vagaries of an orchestra having an off night in a live performance or the fact his tempos did typically get slower still toward the end. After awhile, I'd amassed 300+ Klemperer recordings, including, for example, six different Beethoven Fifth Symphonies, and how many different Klemperer Beethoven Fifths does a person need? I'm glad the EMI recordings are being reboxed and reissued for the benefit of those who've yet to discover the glories of Klemperer but I have them all in earlier incarnations. In fact, I haven't bought a Klemperer recording in quite awhile.
Thank you for your thoughts Dave! Your statement
"Klemperer's more measured tempi allowed me to hear instrumental lines in the music I'd literally never heard before in more frantic performances" is what strikes me again and again in Klemperer and makes me excited to hear more of his records. Aces!
Quote from: Leo K. on March 14, 2015, 11:06:57 AM
I've been listening (for the first time) to Klemp's Vox recording of Das Lied von der Erde from March, 1951. I was taken aback right from the beginning. It's much faster than his later EMI account but so detailed and rhythmic, and doesn't feel rushed at all. The orchestra is great. There is a horn player that really soars, playing with such confidence and flair, I love it! The work's orchestration sounds modern and prickly with no sentimentality. I'm going to have to track down his Vox recordings!
Leo &
revdrdave,
As I realized that I had not yet heard any of Klemperer's Vox recordings ( ???) (and being inspired by your posts) I decided to dig deeper into that aspect of his legacy. I picked up the following three Vox releases which hopefully will satisfy some of that curiosity....
[asin] B001EOIGYI[/asin]
[asin] B000001KCG[/asin]
[asin] B000001KCH[/asin]
What are your thoughts on Klemperer's RIAs recordings on the Audite label?
[asin] B005OV1MXY[/asin]
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/818I%2Bz6SDCL._SL1500_.jpg)
I love his Zauberflöte and Così: slow, yes, but, as has been said by other members, transparent and breathing, and certainly not drowning in dragging legato.
I'm also very fond of his recordings of Schubert 8 & 9, Franck's Symphony in D-minor, and of Mahler 2 (with Schwarzkopf and Rössl-Majdan), Das Lied von der Erde (Ludwig/Wunderlich) and Mahler 9.
Klemperer's life and times
Just for the record: these two volumes written by Peter Heyworth appear to be THE Klemperer biography. They are OOP and the second volume is currently quite expensive. However, the first volume on his early life is very affordable and is likely to be of interest to readers of this thread. There is a more recent edition of volume 1 (slightly higher price).
Otto Klemperer: His Life and Times, Vol. 1: 1885-1933 (http://www.amazon.com/Otto-Klemperer-Times-Volume-1885-1933/dp/0521242932)
(http://img.auctiva.com/imgdata/7/5/5/7/1/5/webimg/542203638_o.jpg)
Otto Klemperer: Volume 2, 1933-1973: His Life and Times
[asin] 0521244889[/asin]
The newer edition of Volume 1:
[asin] 0521495091[/asin]
To hear his take on Stravinsky (Symphony in three movements, Petrouchka and Pulcinella suite) is to experience that composer's music like you never have before. A jaw dropping experience. Some loathe it, I love it. Stravinsky was a staple of Klemperer's repertoire in the 20's and 30's.
Quote from: Moonfish on March 14, 2015, 11:47:58 AM
What are your thoughts on Klemperer's RIAs recordings on the Audite label?
[asin] B005OV1MXY[/asin]
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/818I%2Bz6SDCL._SL1500_.jpg)
I have to confess, Moonfish, that I'm not familiar with these recordings. I've known of Klemperer's work with the RIAS orchestra but I've never heard any of the performances. He recorded these at the same time he was recording much of the same material for Vox; there's also some overlap with his earliest recordings for EMI. I've never been a huge fan of his Vox recordings because of the calibre of the Vienna Symphony, Vox's unwillingness to allow much in the way of rehearsal prior to recording, and the quality of the recordings themselves. I'd be interested to hear the RIAS material if for no other reason than some of these performances coincide with the time Ferenc Fricsay (a woefully underrated conductor, in my opinion) was Music Director of the RIAS orchestra and had turned it into a first-class group. The works performed are core repertoire for Klemperer.
Quote from: Leo K. on March 14, 2015, 11:06:57 AM
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51ftPJXXfSL._SY355_.jpg)
I've been listening (for the first time) to Klemp's Vox recording of Das Lied von der Erde from March, 1951. I was taken aback right from the beginning. It's much faster than his later EMI account but so detailed and rhythmic, and doesn't feel rushed at all. The orchestra is great. There is a horn player that really soars, playing with such confidence and flair, I love it! The work's orchestration sounds modern and prickly with no sentimentality. I'm going to have to track down his Vox recordings!
Thanks for mentioning that one, I'll have to spin it soon, haven't listened to it in ages. Though it definitely is lightning fast, not just much faster than his later EMI recording but faster than pretty much anything else. But what I remember liking most about it is mellifluous singing of Anton Dermota (though amply helped by recording engineers putting him well forward of the orchestra). Could be my favorite tenor in the role.
Quote from: Moonfish on March 14, 2015, 11:47:58 AM
What are your thoughts on Klemperer's RIAs recordings on the Audite label?
[asin] B005OV1MXY[/asin]
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/818I%2Bz6SDCL._SL1500_.jpg)
I don't have this set but a few of the recordings on other releases. I'm just starting to listen to the Mozart No.38, and wow, despite the poor sound the performance is Klemp firing on all cylinders, with the expo. repeat observed in the first movement. Aces!
(http://store.acousticsounds.com/images/large/XXXX__74970__04212011034717-7549.jpg)
I really love this record. Alan Civil's (1929-1989) tone is my cup of tea, probably my favorite player of the Mozart horn concertos. Klemperer leads the Philharmonica in a elegiac expression of these concertos. The mood of the performances is like the world of the Clarinet Concerto. I found this quote from a Yahoo group regarding Alan Civil, Dennis Brain (featured on Karajan's account of the horn concerti), and Klemperer:
"Some place in the Stephen Pettitt book on Dennis Brain there is a
section about the issue of tempo's with Otto Klemperer on the first
attempt to record the Paul Hindemith Horn Concerto with Dennis Brain.
Klemperer's tempos where just too slow for Dennis Brain to feel
comfortable.
From what read between the lines, Otto Klemperer felt that Dennis Brain
was too reserved in his sound and under-played the big solos in the
German literature. He also did not like the, what he called "French
Novels" that Dennis Brain read during rehearsals.
Klemperer liked Alan Civil's concepts of tone much better and this was
his choice of Horn players when he conducted in England. I don't know
if Otto Klemperer was Alan Civils choice of of conductors."
Quote from: Leo K. on March 15, 2015, 12:20:58 PM
(http://store.acousticsounds.com/images/large/XXXX__74970__04212011034717-7549.jpg)
I really love this record. Alan Civil's (1929-1989) tone is my cup of tea, probably my favorite player of the Mozart horn concertos. Klemperer leads the Philharmonica in a elegiac expression of these concertos.
Sold. I just ordered this box:
[asin] B00A4AI0AS[/asin]
Sarge
Quote from: Moonfish on March 14, 2015, 12:10:33 PM
Klemperer's life and times
Just for the record: these two volumes written by Peter Heyworth appear to be THE Klemperer biography. They are OOP and the second volume is currently quite expensive. However, the first volume on his early life is very affordable and is likely to be of interest to readers of this thread. There is a more recent edition of volume 1 (slightly higher price).
Otto Klemperer: His Life and Times, Vol. 1: 1885-1933 (http://www.amazon.com/Otto-Klemperer-Times-Volume-1885-1933/dp/0521242932)
(http://img.auctiva.com/imgdata/7/5/5/7/1/5/webimg/542203638_o.jpg)
Otto Klemperer: Volume 2, 1933-1973: His Life and Times
[asin] 0521244889[/asin]
The newer edition of Volume 1:
[asin] 0521495091[/asin]
Yes--not only is this essential reading for anyone interested in Klemperer but, IMHO, it's one of the best biographies of a conductor ever written. Heyworth died before he completed the second volume but it was finished by John Lucas. The first volume is particularly interesting on a couple of levels. First, it spends a great deal of time talking about Klemperer's years as Director of the Kroll Opera in Berlin, a story that, prior to this biography, hadn't been told--at least not in the detail it is here. This is important not only because it's a good story but it underscores how active a role Klemperer played in getting then-contemporary music before the public (he was responsible, for example, for the premiers of operas by Hindemith and Schoenberg and worked closely with Busoni, Zemlinsky, Pfitzner, and Stravinsky). Second, it demonstrates just how wide Klemperer's repertoire was at one time. He became known, of course, for Beethoven/Brahms/Mozart/Haydn but, early on, he was programming music by composers you'd never associate with him. We tend to know Klemperer as a musical conservative when, for much of his career prior to the rise to power of the Nazis, he was known as something of a cutting-edge radical. In fact, it wasn't until Klemperer left Germany in 1933, eventually finding his way to Los Angeles, that his repertoire began to narrow, with an increasing focus on Austro-German classical composers. I've always regretted that there aren't more recordings of Klemperer earlier in his career--the thought of Klemperer conducting Schoenberg (other than
Verklarte Nacht, which he did record) kind of blows my mind!
BTW, Peter Heyworth published another book--
Conversations With Klemperer--which is a good supplement to the biography.
Quote from: Sergeant Rock on March 15, 2015, 12:38:35 PM
Sold. I just ordered this box:
[asin] B00A4AI0AS[/asin]
Sarge
Great choice, Sarge. I share Leo's love of the Mozart Horn Concerti and I've always had a particular affection for the Beethoven Piano Concerti with a young Daniel Barenboim towards the beginning of his career and an aging Klemperer nearing the end of his. I'm not saying they're the best Beethoven concerti across the board (although I think 3 and 4 are particularly fine) but there is, to my ears, a great humanity in these performances. The Schumann and Liszt concerti with Annie Fischer are terrific, too, but probably the best performance in the entire box is the Brahms with David Oistrakh. For me, no other performance of the Violin Concerto comes close to this one.
Quote from: Sergeant Rock on March 15, 2015, 12:38:35 PM
Sold. I just ordered this box:
[asin] B00A4AI0AS[/asin]
Sarge
That's great Sarge, I look forward to your thoughts on it. Aces! The Mozart Piano Concerto no.25 is really nice too.
Quote from: revdrdave on March 15, 2015, 03:04:07 PM
Yes--not only is this essential reading for anyone interested in Klemperer but, IMHO, it's one of the best biographies of a conductor ever written. Heyworth died before he completed the second volume but it was finished by John Lucas. The first volume is particularly interesting on a couple of levels. First, it spends a great deal of time talking about Klemperer's years as Director of the Kroll Opera in Berlin, a story that, prior to this biography, hadn't been told--at least not in the detail it is here. This is important not only because it's a good story but it underscores how active a role Klemperer played in getting then-contemporary music before the public (he was responsible, for example, for the premiers of operas by Hindemith and Schoenberg and worked closely with Busoni, Zemlinsky, Pfitzner, and Stravinsky). Second, it demonstrates just how wide Klemperer's repertoire was at one time. He became known, of course, for Beethoven/Brahms/Mozart/Haydn but, early on, he was programming music by composers you'd never associate with him. We tend to know Klemperer as a musical conservative when, for much of his career prior to the rise to power of the Nazis, he was known as something of a cutting-edge radical. In fact, it wasn't until Klemperer left Germany in 1933, eventually finding his way to Los Angeles, that his repertoire began to narrow, with an increasing focus on Austro-German classical composers. I've always regretted that there aren't more recordings of Klemperer earlier in his career--the thought of Klemperer conducting Schoenberg (other than Verklarte Nacht, which he did record) kind of blows my mind!
BTW, Peter Heyworth published another book--Conversations With Klemperer--which is a good supplement to the biography.
That is fascinating Dave and thanks for the discussion. I'll see if I can check it out through inter-library loan. I used to see the first volume in my home city library but I haven't seen the second volume.
Quote from: revdrdave on March 15, 2015, 03:13:33 PM
Great choice, Sarge. I share Leo's love of the Mozart Horn Concerti and I've always had a particular affection for the Beethoven Piano Concerti with a young Daniel Barenboim towards the beginning of his career and an aging Klemperer nearing the end of his. I'm not saying they're the best Beethoven concerti across the board (although I think 3 and 4 are particularly fine) but there is, to my ears, a great humanity in these performances. The Schumann and Liszt concerti with Annie Fischer are terrific, too, but probably the best performance in the entire box is the Brahms with David Oistrakh. For me, no other performance of the Violin Concerto comes close to this one.
Oh yeah I love the Schumann Piano Concerto performance. It is magisterial and Epic.
Quote from: Leo K. on March 15, 2015, 03:21:40 PM
That's great Sarge, I look forward to your thoughts on it. Aces! The Mozart Piano Concerto no.25 is really nice too.
Quote from: revdrdave on March 15, 2015, 03:13:33 PM
Great choice, Sarge. I share Leo's love of the Mozart Horn Concerti and I've always had a particular affection for the Beethoven Piano Concerti with a young Daniel Barenboim towards the beginning of his career and an aging Klemperer nearing the end of his. I'm not saying they're the best Beethoven concerti across the board (although I think 3 and 4 are particularly fine) but there is, to my ears, a great humanity in these performances. The Schumann and Liszt concerti with Annie Fischer are terrific, too, but probably the best performance in the entire box is the Brahms with David Oistrakh. For me, no other performance of the Violin Concerto comes close to this one.
The Klemperer/Barenboim Concertos I already have. Came with Klemp's set of Beethoven Symphonies:
(http://photos.imageevent.com/sgtrock/feb2015/beethovenboxklempbaren.jpg)
I agree the Fourth is particularly fine. In fact, I've long known it: I bought the LP during my first visit to London (summer of '72).
(http://photos.imageevent.com/sgtrock/feb2015/beethovenpc4klempLP.jpg)
The duplication doesn't bother me. The box is cheaper than one full-priced CD and the other performances will be new. Looking forward to it. Should be here tomorrow (just received an email that it's shipped).
Sarge
I've been closely listening to all three of Klemp's M9's (New Phil., VPO, and the Jerusalem). His interpretation is pretty much the same for all three performances, but each has it's own fascinating sound, details, and atmosphere. My estimation of his M9 has changed from nonchalance to pure greatness. Years ago I didn't understand his pacing despite my preference for slower performances of Mahler's 9. I just needed to listen to his EMI account closely, studying it again and again. His EMI Das Lied von der Erde had inspired me to take another look at his Mahler 9 and wow, I'm glad I did.
My personal favorite is the Jerusalem performance. The players, with the addition of members of the Gadna Symphony Orchestra (comprised of Israel's talented youth players) play with utmost conviction. I particularly love the power of the brass.
The Jerusalem can be heard here: https://youtu.be/U67C27PpQ4g (https://youtu.be/U67C27PpQ4g)
Quote from GP49 in the rec.music.classical.recordings group:
"This is a live concert performance of Mahler Symphony #9 conducted by
Otto Klemperer, from Jerusalem on August 4, 1970.
A reel-to-reel recording of the broadcast has circulated among
collectors for years. Over time the orchestra has become identified
as the Israel Philharmonic. But it's not, according to Klemperer's
biographer Peter Heyworth, who wrote that it is the Jerusalem Radio
(Kol Israel) Orchestra, now the Jerusalem Symphony, at the time a
smallish group of 54 players which had to be augmented for Mahler 9
by the Gadna Symphony, a youth orchestra (Gadna is an Israeli
military program to prepare youth for their mandatory military
service). Heyworth made mention of one of the Gadna cellists being
only twelve years old, which both impressed and amused Klemperer.
"The playing standards are not high," wrote Heyworth. He was
correct. There are missed entries and the orchestra is very scrappy
in places. Klemperer's tempi are mostly slower here than those in
his justly famous EMI recording with the New Philharmonia, but the
Israeli orchestra sometimes doesn't play together even at these slow
tempi. This should be considered a historical document, not an
alternative to the EMI studio recording.
At a reception after this performance of Mahler 9, Otto Klemperer
became a dual national, accepting Israeli citizenship in addition to
that of West Germany as he was presented with an Israeli passport by
government officials.
Analog tape hiss is surprisingly low, as is background mains hum that
afflicts many home recordings from radio broadcasts. However, there
are tape dropouts and fading; varying left-channel high-frequency
loss typical of quarter-track 1/4 inch reel-to-reel tape, especially
in the first five minutes; and shifts in level and balance."
Mozart: Die Zauberflöte Gedda/Janowitz/Berry/Popp/Frick/Philharmonia Chorus & Orchestra/Klemperer
One of my favorite performances of Die Zauberflöte! I listened to it twice over the last two days to really take in the music. I was a bit surprised at how much I enjoyed it. Particularly, I was taken in by the performances of Janowitz as well as Popp. Their voices were powerful and vibrant throughout. The orchestra's support was very powerful weaving an incantation of immediacy and joy as the story unfolded. I must admit that I prefer renditions that maintain the spoken part as I view the opera as a story. The spoken elements seem essential to bring forward the narrative (as far as I am concerned). However, the performance overall was so vivid and engaging that I quickly allowed myself to accept these missing portions of the opera. Still, I wish they were included....
A great performance of Die Zauberflöte!
[asin] B00004VVZN[/asin]
from
[asin] B00AOG6P86[/asin]
Quote from: Leo K. on March 18, 2015, 09:26:50 AM
I've been closely listening to all three of Klemp's M9's (New Phil., VPO, and the Jerusalem). His interpretation is pretty much the same for all three performances, but each has it's own fascinating sound, details, and atmosphere. My estimation of his M9 has changed from nonchalance to pure greatness. Years ago I didn't understand his pacing despite my preference for slower performances of Mahler's 9. I just needed to listen to his EMI account closely, studying it again and again. His EMI Das Lied von der Erde had inspired me to take another look at his Mahler 9 and wow, I'm glad I did.
My personal favorite is the Jerusalem performance. The players, with the addition of members of the Gadna Symphony Orchestra (comprised of Israel's talented youth players) play with utmost conviction. I particularly love the power of the brass.
The Jerusalem can be heard here: https://youtu.be/U67C27PpQ4g (https://youtu.be/U67C27PpQ4g)
Quote from GP49 in the rec.music.classical.recordings group:
"This is a live concert performance of Mahler Symphony #9 conducted by
Otto Klemperer, from Jerusalem on August 4, 1970.
A reel-to-reel recording of the broadcast has circulated among
collectors for years. Over time the orchestra has become identified
as the Israel Philharmonic. But it's not, according to Klemperer's
biographer Peter Heyworth, who wrote that it is the Jerusalem Radio
(Kol Israel) Orchestra, now the Jerusalem Symphony, at the time a
smallish group of 54 players which had to be augmented for Mahler 9
by the Gadna Symphony, a youth orchestra (Gadna is an Israeli
military program to prepare youth for their mandatory military
service). Heyworth made mention of one of the Gadna cellists being
only twelve years old, which both impressed and amused Klemperer.
"The playing standards are not high," wrote Heyworth. He was
correct. There are missed entries and the orchestra is very scrappy
in places. Klemperer's tempi are mostly slower here than those in
his justly famous EMI recording with the New Philharmonia, but the
Israeli orchestra sometimes doesn't play together even at these slow
tempi. This should be considered a historical document, not an
alternative to the EMI studio recording.
At a reception after this performance of Mahler 9, Otto Klemperer
became a dual national, accepting Israeli citizenship in addition to
that of West Germany as he was presented with an Israeli passport by
government officials.
Analog tape hiss is surprisingly low, as is background mains hum that
afflicts many home recordings from radio broadcasts. However, there
are tape dropouts and fading; varying left-channel high-frequency
loss typical of quarter-track 1/4 inch reel-to-reel tape, especially
in the first five minutes; and shifts in level and balance."
Wow, Leo, what a gift bringing the existence of this performance to our collective attention--thank you so much! I knew copies of this performance were floating around but rare; it never occurred to me to check YouTube. In any case, what an amazing performance! Scrappy, yes, but I think the rawness of some of the playing is part of its appeal. This is, after all, one of the more emotionally raw of the Mahler symphonies and one that Klemperer somehow always managed to conduct well. My understanding of the concert is that Klemperer was originally planning to conduct Mahler 4 but then insisted on something more "challenging." The irony, of course, as noted above, is that the Ninth required that the 54 members of the Jerusalem Radio Orchestra be supplemented by kids (and that's what they were, some as young as 12 years old) from the Gadna Symphony, a youth orchestra. Now that I've heard it, I think that, in some ways, I prefer this performance to the more polished EMI studio recording with the New Philharmonia.
Quote from: Moonfish on March 18, 2015, 03:46:43 PM
Mozart: Die Zauberflöte Gedda/Janowitz/Berry/Popp/Frick/Philharmonia Chorus & Orchestra/Klemperer
One of my favorite performances of Die Zauberflöte! I listened to it twice over the last two days to really take in the music. I was a bit surprised at how much I enjoyed it. Particularly, I was taken in by the performances of Janowitz as well as Popp. Their voices were powerful and vibrant throughout. The orchestra's support was very powerful weaving an incantation of immediacy and joy as the story unfolded. I must admit that I prefer renditions that maintain the spoken part as I view the opera as a story. The spoken elements seem essential to bring forward the narrative (as far as I am concerned). However, the performance overall was so vivid and engaging that I quickly allowed myself to accept these missing portions of the opera. Still, I wish they were included....
A great performance of Die Zauberflöte!
[asin] B00004VVZN[/asin]
from
[asin] B00AOG6P86[/asin]
You aren't alone in regretting the absence of spoken dialogue. The recording's producer, Walter Legge, felt the same way. There's a great story about this. Klemperer and Legge's relationship had been deteriorating for some time; recording
Die Zauberflote killed it altogether. EMI's German offshoot, Electrola, sent a telegram to Legge questioning the wisdom of not recording the dialogue. Legge forwarded the telegram to Klemperer urging him to record at least some of the dialogue but Klemperer was adamant. He responded to Legge, "As I take responsibility for these records I must use my own judgment." Legge sent Klemperer's response to Electrola with the comment, "There's no fool like an old fool." After work on the recording finished, Klemperer and Legge never spoke again.
Quote from: revdrdave on March 19, 2015, 08:21:29 AM
Wow, Leo, what a gift bringing the existence of this performance to our collective attention--thank you so much! I knew copies of this performance were floating around but rare; it never occurred to me to check YouTube. In any case, what an amazing performance! Scrappy, yes, but I think the rawness of some of the playing is part of its appeal. This is, after all, one of the more emotionally raw of the Mahler symphonies and one that Klemperer somehow always managed to conduct well. My understanding of the concert is that Klemperer was originally planning to conduct Mahler 4 but then insisted on something more "challenging." The irony, of course, as noted above, is that the Ninth required that the 54 members of the Jerusalem Radio Orchestra be supplemented by kids (and that's what they were, some as young as 12 years old) from the Gadna Symphony, a youth orchestra. Now that I've heard it, I think that, in some ways, I prefer this performance to the more polished EMI studio recording with the New Philharmonia.
That's great Dave! I've listened to this performance a few times now and can't get over how forceful and determined it is despite the circumstances. Klemp's wonderful details are there, even more than usual in this live recording. The tam-tam and trombones in the climax of the 1st mov. are vivid and haunting.
I've been really enjoying Klemp's symphonies today, the 1st (cond. Hans Rosbaud on an old broadcast) the 2nd (cond. Klemperer on EMI) and now the incredibly elegiac and autumnal 3rd on this amazing recording (digital download on Amazon):
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/514MJ3KL70L._SL640_.jpg)
Wow wow wow, and with the New Philharmonia playing with Klemperer at the helm. The 4th is on here too!!
After the final performance at his last appearance in 1969 at the Royal Opera House Covent Garden conducting a revival of his production of Beethoven's Fidelio, Klemperer said to the orchestra “I come back to you in February – if I am dead I will still come back”!
What a guy!
I have a new recording of the Klemperer Mahler 7, the 'HQ' edition from Japan. The sound is fantastic. For a recording made in September of 68, it sounds excellent (I have yet to compare to the new Warner Mahler box).
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41PGyZvBf7L.jpg)
I am re-accessing this fascinating recording. It's interesting to come back to it after exploring Klemperer recordings the last few weeks (I don't appear to be slowing down!). The complete performance is carefully laid out, all kinds of details appearing but not a sign of over-the-top phrasing (for the sake of drama). This M7 reminds me of Klemperer's Mahler 9. It's played straight but the power in the details create an accumulating impact by the end. The performance is consistent and fully realized. I'm so enraptured by Klemperer's probing of the symphony, the "slowness" is a virtue here. Klemperer makes points others miss and his conception of this work is so different than any other that it's completely fascinating. Hearing it always makes me think of George Szell's quote about making music, "One must think with the heart, and feel with the brain".
P.S. I love the sound of the New Philharmonia, a sound I've been appreciating more and more over the last few weeks.
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51BHQ%2BOEvEL._SY300_.jpg)
Between the 1954 and 1969 recordings of Bach's Orchestral Suites, I'm leaning towards the 1969. I love the luscious sound of the orchestra, how the brass breaks through the texture and the sober phrases of melodic logic keep the construction going. Aces!
Quote from: Leo K. on March 24, 2015, 12:16:27 PM
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51BHQ%2BOEvEL._SY300_.jpg)
Between the 1954 and 1969 recordings of Bach's Orchestral Suites, I'm leaning towards the 1969. I love the luscious sound of the orchestra, how the brass breaks through the texture and the sober phrases of melodic logic keep the construction going. Aces!
Yes, Leo, agreed. I know Klemperer's 1969 performance is about as far away from HIP as one can get but, as you say, the sound of the orchestra--especially the brass--is, indeed, luscious. This reminds me that I need to revisit Klemperer's EMI recording of the B-minor Mass, which I haven't listened to in a long time. His
St. Matthew Passion, by the way, is extraordinary.
Quote from: revdrdave on March 24, 2015, 12:48:50 PM
Yes, Leo, agreed. I know Klemperer's 1969 performance is about as far away from HIP as one can get but, as you say, the sound of the orchestra--especially the brass--is, indeed, luscious. This reminds me that I need to revisit Klemperer's EMI recording of the B-minor Mass, which I haven't listened to in a long time. His St. Matthew Passion, by the way, is extraordinary.
I've been revisiting Klemp's B Minor Mass and St. Matthew Passion the last few weeks. Wow, I agree regarding the Passion, an incredible experience in every way! I also feel that way about the B Minor Mass. I love Klemp's way with Bach. It's total devotion to the music. The tempo, phrasing, details, and cumulative effect is staggering. Klemp is my first choice for these masterworks (and I'm also an HIP fan).
I'm been listening to Klemperer's Symphony No.4 (recorded: March 10 1969 with the New Philharmonia Orchestra), a recording found on "Klemperer: Own Compositions, Vol. 2 (Symphonies)" on the Archiphon label. (Vol 2 has four of his symphonies that he recorded.)
It's a fascinating listen. A four movement work with a 13 minute beautiful adagio that is the heart of the work. The faster movements have a lot of personality. One could with say a combination of roughness and quirkiness.
Does anyone know the background of these recordings he did with these four symphonies? They sound like run-throughs in the studio. Perhaps for himself?
He wrote six symphonies so I'm so curious about 5 and 6, and if he ever finished those enough to perform?
I imagine with glee hearing a modern performance of his 4th symphony with the Berlin Philharmonic, imagine!
George Solti tells a story in his memoirs of calling on Klemperer in his dressing room and finding him lying on a couch with naked torso covered in lipstick. K then started berating Toscanini, saying how disgracefully he behaved with his wife: "what sort of family life must he have, with him over in New York and his wife staying in Europe!" Disgraceful!" This, said Solti, coming from a man who didn't look the picture of domesticity himself! Karajan was most amused that on a Philarmonia tour Klemperer kept showing up intent on pursuing a flame-haired cellist he fancied.
We never heard the best of Klemperer from the recordings he made as an old man when he was sick and infirmed. True, some of them are remarkable but by then his beat had slowed. This doesn't apply to everything and his insights are valuable - his German Requiem is outstanding as is his Mahler Das Liede von das Erde in parts. There is a wonderfully truculent Beethoven 7th from 1955. But things like his Missa Solemnis are spoiled by leaden tempi and inferior soloists. And I will not comment on his anachronistic Bach!
Let me rephrase a bit. Given the context of German music making, who was teaching, who were mentors to younger conductors, would a German conductor listening to a concert blindfolded know that the conductor was or was not German-schooled? I was told by an Italian conductor, now deceased, that this German style concentrated on little things or smallish detail. I am also wondering if the two main styles we now recognize, the strict and the flexible, had much in common and this commonality could be considered the German style.. Thanks for the comments so far.
Would Klemperer have been classified as a German conductor by his German peers? What is the German style of playing orchestral music, so that a German conductor could say of one of Monteux's performances that it was very nice, but not German? What would make for German performance, in Klemperer's case forward woodwinds and divided violins? Or is it more subtle than that? Any books about that you could recommend? Anecdotes are of course always welcome. TIA.
Quote from: MickeyBoy on November 30, 2020, 06:36:49 PM
Would Klemperer have been classified as a German conductor by his German peers?
Of course, what else? Only hard core nazis would have tried to find a "Jewish" style of conducting... (and then e.g. Mahler, Walter and Klemperer would very probably have had sufficiently different styles that this would be obvious nonsense either)
Quote
What is the German style of playing orchestral music, so that a German conductor could say of one of Monteux's performances that it was very nice, but not German? What would make for German performance, in Klemperer's case forward woodwinds and divided violins? Or is it more subtle than that? Any books about that you could recommend? Anecdotes are of course always welcome. TIA.
I don't think there was *one* German style. Germany and Hungaroaustria were dominating classical music around 1900, especially their own tradition. But unlike France or Britain, these countries were not culturally centralized at all, so there were many different styles. Even Vienna was never the only cultural capital (in Mozart's time there was Prague, later Leipzig, Dresden, Berlin, Munich, Weimar etc. as important musical centers.)
There was great Russian music but I don't think that (unlike maybe in piano and violin) there was a distinctive Russian school of conducting around 1900. The only other comparably strong distinctive tradition was French (or maybe even Parisian) and while this was about to change in the early 20th century, it was still very opera-dominated.
Even in Brahms' time there were apparently at least two major approaches, one more flexible with lots of rubato (as maybe later reflected in Pfitzner's and more importantly Furtwängler's recordings) and one fairly straightforward one, followed by Fritz Busch or Richard Strauss. Klemperer does not really fit either although more the latter than the former.
And a lot probably changed with the establishment of recordings. Strauss famously quipped that there were "good notes" and "bad notes" in his music and that when he himself was conducting his music he heard only the good notes but when Toscanini conducted he could hear *all* the notes. Such influences probably led to far more precise and "straight" interpretations, so that by the 1940s Mengelberg or Furtwängler seemed relics of an older style and most of the slightly younger conductors (born around 1900), such as Böhm or Szell were all much closer to Toscanini than to Pfitzner in their style.
With Klemperer one has to keep in mind that on records we mostly know an old man with distinctive personal style that could be very different from how he conducted in the 1910s or 1930s (there are a few documents from the 30s).
He conducted my favourite recordings (EMI) of Bruckner's 4th and 6th symphonies and Mahler's Ninth Symphony.
As he was Jewish (by birth) it amused me when he complained that Bruno Walter's Mahler performances were 'too Jewish' for his liking!
I think that they were both great Mahler conductors.
Klemperer could be a bit strict or even narrowminded, supposedly he rejected Mahler's 5th because of the adagietto he found kitschy.
Walter was very good in the Mahler pieces Klemp spurned, the 1st and 5th, and I'd say Bruno Walter is among the best conductors of the "Klezmer music" in the 1st,iii.
But I think it is preposterous to assume that Walter, born in Berlin with a middle class background had any particular connection to central eastern European Yiddish culture or music. (This was a bit different from Mahler's own background in lower middle class rural Bohemia, but he also wasn't from a Ukrainian shtetl.)
Although I don't know about the details of Walter's background. Klemperer was born in Breslau (Wroclaw today), his parents hailed from Prague and Hamburg respectively. And both converted eventually, for whatever reasons, so this would be another reason to assume that they were not particularly rooted in their heritage. (This was the perverse thing that antisemitism took such a turn in the early 20th century that it did not help Jews under the Nazis when they had converted decades before, sometimes to make a marriage more easily possible or to avoid the more typical late 19th century style of antijudaism that was not so concerned with "blood".)
Quote from: Jo498 on December 01, 2020, 12:59:06 AM
Klemperer could be a bit strict or even narrowminded, supposedly he rejected Mahler's 5th because of the adagietto he found kitschy.
Walter was very good in the Mahler pieces Klemp spurned, the 1st and 5th, and I'd say Bruno Walter is among the best conductors of the "Klezmer music" in the 1st,iii.
But I think it is preposterous to assume that Walter, born in Berlin with a middle class background had any particular connection to central eastern European Yiddish culture or music. (This was a bit different from Mahler's own background in lower middle class rural Bohemia, but he also wasn't from a Ukrainian shtetl.)
Although I don't know about the details of Walter's background. Klemperer was born in Breslau (Wroclaw today), his parents hailed from Prague and Hamburg respectively. And both converted eventually, for whatever reasons, so this would be another reason to assume that they were not particularly rooted in their heritage. (This was the perverse thing that antisemitism took such a turn in the early 20th century that it did not help Jews under the Nazis when they had converted decades before, sometimes to make a marriage more easily possible or to avoid the more typical late 19th century style of antijudaism that was not so concerned with "blood".)
Very interesting. I knew a bit of this but good to hear your views. Walter's Mahler Symphony No.5 is probably my favourite version as is Klemperer's No.9.