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The Music Room => General Classical Music Discussion => Topic started by: AdamFromWashington on March 12, 2015, 09:17:21 PM

Title: Pieces You Love, But Don't Like
Post by: AdamFromWashington on March 12, 2015, 09:17:21 PM
I'm not sure the title quite gets my point across, but I'm not sure what would...  >:(

For me, it's lots of pieces by Janáček.

I would count him amongst my top five favorite composers, probably.

I love almost everything he did. Harmony, rhythm, melodies, orchestration, and yet...

Something doesn't click. I never feel ecstatic about the music. I'm always distant. What annoys me is that I can never really figure out why. Maybe it's the way he doesn't build things up? But no, I like the weird structures... Is it the cragginess of his rhythms? A bit stiff, yes, but he wouldn't be Janáček without them, and like I said, I mostly enjoy the strange rhythms.

I want to break through this wall and enjoy Janáček like I enjoy Beethoven, or Shostakovich, or Mahler, or even Pierre Boulez! Without a veil, as it were. Relaxed, enjoying every moment without thinking about it. But with Janáček my mind wanders and...

Nothing! 

I feel the same way about Bartók's 2nd Violin Concerto. Part of it is I wish he used more--I want to say bombast. The third movement sounds like a hundred different conclusions that never reach apotheosis. Each section is almost perfect, I love what he does, I love all the music... But it doesn't gel. I wish he picked one ending and developed it. Let it run for thirty more seconds. But at the same time, I know this is an untrained opinion, and doing what I want would probably ruin the piece.

Keep in mind, I don't mean flat out disliking a piece of music or being indifferent to it. We all know what that's like, and it's nothing special. This is being drawn to a piece, loving every part, but just not enjoying it. 

Does anyone else know what I mean?

Anymore examples?
Title: Re: Pieces You Love, But Don't Like
Post by: Chris L. on March 12, 2015, 10:31:55 PM
Quote from: Adam of the North(west) on March 12, 2015, 09:17:21 PM
I'm not sure the title quite gets my point across, but I'm not sure what would...  >:(

For me, it's lots of pieces by Janáček.

I would count him amongst my top five favorite composers, probably.

I love almost everything he did. Harmony, rhythm, melodies, orchestration, and yet...

Something doesn't click. I never feel ecstatic about the music. I'm always distant. What annoys me is that I can never really figure out why. Maybe it's the way he doesn't build things up? But no, I like the weird structures... Is it the cragginess of his rhythms? A bit stiff, yes, but he wouldn't be Janáček without them, and like I said, I mostly enjoy the strange rhythms.

I want to break through this wall and enjoy Janáček like I enjoy Beethoven, or Shostakovich, or Mahler, or even Pierre Boulez! Without a veil, as it were. Relaxed, enjoying every moment without thinking about it. But with Janáček my mind wanders and...

Nothing! 

I feel the same way about Bartók's 2nd Violin Concerto. Part of it is I wish he used more--I want to say bombast. The third movement sounds like a hundred different conclusions that never reach apotheosis. Each section is almost perfect, I love what he does, I love all the music... But it doesn't gel. I wish he picked one ending and developed it. Let it run for thirty more seconds. But at the same time, I know this is an untrained opinion, and doing what I want would probably ruin the piece.

Keep in mind, I don't mean flat out disliking a piece of music or being indifferent to it. We all know what that's like, and it's nothing special. This is being drawn to a piece, loving every part, but just not enjoying it. 

Does anyone else know what I mean?

Anymore examples?
Well... there are some people I love that I don't necessarily like. I can't think of any music that I love that I don't like, except for the kind of music that harms me spiritually. Sorry I couldn't be of more help.
Title: Re: Pieces You Love, But Don't Like
Post by: Que on March 12, 2015, 11:04:47 PM
Shouldn't the title of the thread be the other way around: music you like (appreciate) but not love  (yout heart is not in it) ?  ::)

Q
Title: Re: Pieces You Love, But Don't Like
Post by: AdamFromWashington on March 12, 2015, 11:10:41 PM
Quote from: Christopher on March 12, 2015, 10:31:55 PM
Well... there are some people I love that I don't necessarily like. I can't think of any music that I love that I don't like, except for the kind of music that harms me spiritually. Sorry I couldn't be of more help.

That's okay. I just wondered how common this was. Maybe not that common, then? We shall see...
Title: Re: Pieces You Love, But Don't Like
Post by: AdamFromWashington on March 12, 2015, 11:14:00 PM
Quote from: Que on March 12, 2015, 11:04:47 PM
Shouldn't the title of the thread be the other way around: music you like (appreciate) but not love  (yout heart is not in it) ?  ::)

Q

Nope. That's the point. There's lots of music I don't love but still like, but I'm talking about music that I love, but don't like... I realize that sounds weird, but I'm being completely serious here. I will accept the explanation that I'm insane, though.  ???
Title: Re: Pieces You Love, But Don't Like
Post by: The new erato on March 13, 2015, 12:04:37 AM
I cannot see how you can love something you don't like. You can love the fact that somebody has had the guts and audacity to do it (Grosser Fugues perhaps come to mind) and that it exists; but loving the object in itself is another matter.
Title: Re: Pieces You Love, But Don't Like
Post by: EigenUser on March 13, 2015, 12:18:52 AM
Quote from: Adam of the North(west) on March 12, 2015, 09:17:21 PM
I'm not sure the title quite gets my point across, but I'm not sure what would...  >:(

For me, it's lots of pieces by Janáček.

I would count him amongst my top five favorite composers, probably.

I love almost everything he did. Harmony, rhythm, melodies, orchestration, and yet...

Something doesn't click. I never feel ecstatic about the music. I'm always distant. What annoys me is that I can never really figure out why. Maybe it's the way he doesn't build things up? But no, I like the weird structures... Is it the cragginess of his rhythms? A bit stiff, yes, but he wouldn't be Janáček without them, and like I said, I mostly enjoy the strange rhythms.

I want to break through this wall and enjoy Janáček like I enjoy Beethoven, or Shostakovich, or Mahler, or even Pierre Boulez! Without a veil, as it were. Relaxed, enjoying every moment without thinking about it. But with Janáček my mind wanders and...

Nothing! 

I feel the same way about Bartók's 2nd Violin Concerto. Part of it is I wish he used more--I want to say bombast. The third movement sounds like a hundred different conclusions that never reach apotheosis. Each section is almost perfect, I love what he does, I love all the music... But it doesn't gel. I wish he picked one ending and developed it. Let it run for thirty more seconds. But at the same time, I know this is an untrained opinion, and doing what I want would probably ruin the piece.

Keep in mind, I don't mean flat out disliking a piece of music or being indifferent to it. We all know what that's like, and it's nothing special. This is being drawn to a piece, loving every part, but just not enjoying it. 

Does anyone else know what I mean?

Anymore examples?
Perfect example for me last year would be Messiaen's Turangalila-Symphonie (now I like it and love it!). It had wonderfully sappy and bombastic melodies (which I'm a sucker for :-[), complex (yet beautiful) harmonies, and all sorts of rhythmic games. Not to mention the superb orchestration. I had trouble with his sound-world initially because of (1) repetition and (2) lots of high-pitched bells (i.e. celesta, glockenspiel, etc. -- made my ears ring). I guess I just got used to it.

I know exactly what you mean, though. "According to (x,y,z) qualities I should like this, but I don't!"
Title: Re: Pieces You Love, But Don't Like
Post by: AdamFromWashington on March 13, 2015, 01:04:48 AM
Quote from: EigenUser on March 13, 2015, 12:18:52 AM
Perfect example for me last year would be Messiaen's Turangalila-Symphonie (now I like it and love it!). It had wonderfully sappy and bombastic melodies (which I'm a sucker for :-[), complex (yet beautiful) harmonies, and all sorts of rhythmic games. Not to mention the superb orchestration. I had trouble with his sound-world initially because of (1) repetition and (2) lots of high-pitched bells (i.e. celesta, glockenspiel, etc. -- made my ears ring). I guess I just got used to it.

I know exactly what you mean, though. "According to (x,y,z) qualities I should like this, but I don't!"

Yes! That's more or less it. I knew I wasn't that far gone. Someone had to know what I meant!
Title: Re: Pieces You Love, But Don't Like
Post by: Jo498 on March 13, 2015, 01:15:47 AM
I am afraid I do not quite get it
"According to (x,y,z) qualities I should like this, but I don't!"
I can understand this but in this case I do not like or love a piece. I can also understand that according to some qualities abstracted from other pieces I like I should NOT like a piece but I do in fact. But aren't these distinctions different than love vs. like?

Whatever, two pieces I feel I should like more than I do (I do not dislike them but not really love them) are Schubert's Wandererfantasie and the Great C major symphony.
Title: Re: Pieces You Love, But Don't Like
Post by: xochitl on March 13, 2015, 01:16:56 AM
i usually stay away from Britten cos most of his music gives me a sadness that takes days to wear off. i can't put my finger on it. it leaves me in awe and disbelief that music can do that to a person.

on the other hand, much of bach and brahms is so mentally challenging to me i dare not venture into the thicket without a still and receptive mind and a good machete

mozart in minor mode makes me queasy (literally, physically). mozart in major mode makes me roll my eyes most of the time ('oh cmon, you cannot possibly be THIS happy')

this is all music i love unconditionally btw

is this what the OP meant?
Title: Re: Pieces You Love, But Don't Like
Post by: amw on March 13, 2015, 01:28:30 AM
Sibelius 6 (and 4) leaves me incredibly drained and depressed, same with Vaughan Williams 5.

Feldman's Neither is deeply disquieting. In a different way, so is Schubert's D956. Mozart's last piano concerto carries a charge of profound melancholy, somewhat bittersweet.


For music where I love x, y and z musical qualities without necessarily loving the music itself: Bruckner and Simpson.

For music I love despite it having no redeeming qualities whatsoever: Liszt's Album d'un voyageur III (the Swiss paraphrases) and more than a few Hungarian Rhapsodies. And anything by Johann Strauss II.
Title: Re: Pieces You Love, But Don't Like
Post by: AdamFromWashington on March 13, 2015, 01:38:02 AM
Quote from: xochitl on March 13, 2015, 01:16:56 AM
is this what the OP meant?

That will do (edit: though it's not what I meant). It seems I reached a point where words broke down. I promise I'm capable of cogent thought. I was just expressing a strange emotion that I have. It's very subjective. Something like what you said would probably work better for keeping this thread alive. Something you love and recognize as a masterwork but that leaves you feeling horrible. Shostakovich's 14th Symphony made me feel that way. I've only listened to it all the way through once...
Title: Re: Pieces You Love, But Don't Like
Post by: Jo498 on March 13, 2015, 01:39:09 AM
Quote from: amw on March 13, 2015, 01:28:30 AM
For music where I love x, y and z musical qualities without necessarily loving the music itself: Bruckner and Simpson.
Do you have any idea what the reason could be that the qualities do not act appropriately together to make you love the music itself?
Title: Re: Pieces You Love, But Don't Like
Post by: amw on March 13, 2015, 01:53:03 AM
Quote from: Jo498 on March 13, 2015, 01:39:09 AM
Do you have any idea what the reason could be that the qualities do not act appropriately together to make you love the music itself?
Actually despite the strong similarities of those two composers I sort of have opposite problems with them. Bruckner's music is often just One Thing being repeated over and over again with different accompaniments, endless modulation and no melodies to speak of, but if one takes it at value it can be very compelling. I'll tune out sometimes (or often) but it can be a satisfying experience after the fact. Simpson's music has a lot more stuff in it, interesting harmonic progressions and orchestration and so forth, I always enjoy listening to it, but it adds up to somewhat less than the sum of its parts... perhaps due to the feeling of 'ersatz Bruckner' which isn't totally fair to him really.
Title: Re: Pieces You Love, But Don't Like
Post by: mc ukrneal on March 13, 2015, 03:54:45 AM
Your description (OP) makes me think the music clicks with you rationally/intellectually (brain), but not emotionally (heart). If that's not it, I really don't quite get it, but that's ok.
Title: Re: Pieces You Love, But Don't Like
Post by: Mirror Image on March 13, 2015, 06:36:46 AM
Quote from: The new erato on March 13, 2015, 12:04:37 AM
I cannot see how you can love something you don't like.

+1 This thread doesn't make a whole lot of sense IMHO.
Title: Re: Pieces You Love, But Don't Like
Post by: jochanaan on March 13, 2015, 08:22:16 AM
Adam, it sounds as if what you're really saying is that you love individual moments or sections in the music of which you speak, but not the whole.  In other words, for you the whole isless than the sum of its parts...?

For me, mostly if I love something, I like it, and vice versa.  But there are one or two pieces that by all rights I should love, but I don't.  One is Vincent d'Indy's "Symphony on a French Mountain Air."  Big orchestra, colorful orchestration, virtuoso piano writing, excellent development of the initial idea--and yet I just don't get excited about it.  Same with Milhaud's Creation du Monde (which, BTW, should probably be translated "World Premiere" rather than "Creation of the World"); despite its jazzy rhythms and colorful writing, it just doesn't do anything for me.  (And it's not that I don't like French music either!  Berlioz, Debussy and Ravel are among my favorite composers.)
Title: Re: Pieces You Love, But Don't Like
Post by: Chris L. on March 13, 2015, 12:59:50 PM
Quote from: jochanaan on March 13, 2015, 08:22:16 AM
Adam, it sounds as if what you're really saying is that you love individual moments or sections in the music of which you speak, but not the whole.  In other words, for you the whole isless than the sum of its parts...?

For me, mostly if I love something, I like it, and vice versa.  But there are one or two pieces that by all rights I should love, but I don't.  One is Vincent d'Indy's "Symphony on a French Mountain Air."  Big orchestra, colorful orchestration, virtuoso piano writing, excellent development of the initial idea--and yet I just don't get excited about it.  Same with Milhaud's Creation du Monde (which, BTW, should probably be translated "World Premiere" rather than "Creation of the World"); despite its jazzy rhythms and colorful writing, it just doesn't do anything for me.  (And it's not that I don't like French music either!  Berlioz, Debussy and Ravel are among my favorite composers.)
Perhaps this thread should've been titled "Music you love but don't like because you can't love it as much as you want to"? Or something to that effect.

Yes, there are pieces like that for me but I just focus on the parts that I do love. One prime example is Brahm's Ein Deutsches Requiem. The first two movements take my breath away and leave me standing in awe, while the rest of it fails miserably to live up to the promise of those first two movements in my opinion. It's not that the rest of it is bad, it's just that it's on such a different level musically that it feels like it belongs to a different work entirely, and leaves me feeling cheated. So for these reasons, this is one work that I both love and dislike, if that makes any sense.
Title: Re: Pieces You Love, But Don't Like
Post by: Mandryka on March 13, 2015, 01:04:24 PM
Haydn for me.
Title: Re: Pieces You Love, But Don't Like
Post by: AdamFromWashington on March 13, 2015, 02:14:22 PM
Quote from: Christopher on March 13, 2015, 12:59:50 PM
Perhaps this thread should've been titled "Music you love but don't like because you can't love it as much as you want to"? Or something to that effect.

Yes, there are pieces like that for me but I just focus on the parts that I do love. One prime example is Brahm's Ein Deutsches Requiem. The first two movements take my breath away and leave me standing in awe, while the rest of it fails miserably to live up to the promise of those first two movements in my opinion. It's not that the rest of it is bad, it's just that it's on such a different level musically wise that it feels like it belongs to a different work entirely, and leaves me feeling cheated. So for these reasons, this is one that I both love and dislike, if that makes any sense.

That's it! It makes plenty of sense to me. I think you either get it or you don't--if you don't, hearing someone say they both like and dislike something probably sounds like nonsense. If it weren't for the messy and stupid nature of the human brain, it probably would be. And I like your title idea.
Title: Re: Pieces You Love, But Don't Like
Post by: AdamFromWashington on March 13, 2015, 02:29:42 PM
Quote from: mc ukrneal on March 13, 2015, 03:54:45 AM
Your description (OP) makes me think the music clicks with you rationally/intellectually (brain), but not emotionally (heart). If that's not it, I really don't quite get it, but that's ok.

Yup. It's when I really like something intellectually, but it doesn't click emotionally. Which is the "veil" I was talking about. I enjoy the parts on an intellectual level, and then that intellectual enjoyment gives me a consistent and very real emotional enjoyment that still doesn't live up to what it would be like if it went straight to the "heart." I love the music at one level, but it's a colder and less exciting level than if I liked it both emotionally and intellectually. If I only like something emotionally, it's very exciting whilst I'm listening to it, but it doesn't stick in my memory as a profound or three dimensional experience. I might think: "I was very happy when I heard that." Or: "That was beautiful and somewhat sad." If something is both intellectually and emotionally stimulating, I will think: "I was happy, I was sad, the structure was wonderful, and then I felt angry, and the polyrhythms were so innovative..."

But it's very weird to love something intellectually--and not feel anything that matches that emotionally. It's like eating delicious food while you have a cold. Everything is there, but something from you is missing. 

That's what I meant.

"Less than the sum of its parts" is basically the feeling, I just had to figure out why I had that feeling in these particular cases (Janacek, Bartok).

Thanks for helping me figure that out!
Title: Re: Pieces You Love, But Don't Like
Post by: Chris L. on March 13, 2015, 02:56:15 PM
Quote from: Adam of the North(west) on March 13, 2015, 02:29:42 PM
Yup. It's when I really like something intellectually, but it doesn't click emotionally. Which is the "veil" I was talking about. I enjoy the parts on an intellectual level, and then that intellectual enjoyment gives me a consistent and very real emotional enjoyment that still doesn't live up to what it would be like if it went straight to the "heart." I love the music at one level, but it's a colder and less exciting level than if I liked it both emotionally and intellectually. If I only like something emotionally, it's very exciting whilst I'm listening to it, but it doesn't stick in my memory as a profound or three dimensional experience. I might think: "I was very happy when I heard that." Or: "That was beautiful and somewhat sad." If something is both intellectually and emotionally stimulating, I will think: "I was happy, I was sad, the structure was wonderful, and then I felt angry, and the polyrhythms were so innovative..."

But it's very weird to love something intellectually--and not feel anything that matches that emotionally. It's like eating delicious food while you have a cold. Everything is there, but something from you is missing. 

That's what I meant.

"Less than the sum of its parts" is basically the feeling, I just had to figure out why I had that feeling in these particular cases (Janacek, Bartok).

Thanks for helping me figure that out!
For me, with my previous example of Ein Deutsches Requiem, I feel so strongly emotional as well as intellectual about the first two movements of the work but the others don't resonate with me anywhere near the same level. I can only appreciate the other movements on an intellectual level, but that alone is not enough. It's like going to a nice restaurant and only being able to have the main course. While you delight in eating your steak and lobster, you suddenly realize that's all you'll be getting, no soup, no salad, no sides and no desert. You can only look at the menu helplessly at all the other stuff you'd like to have but cannot get. That's the way I feel about the other movements in Ein Deutsches Requiem, and the way I feel about parts of other works from other composers as well. I hope my strange analogy makes sense.
Title: Re: Pieces You Love, But Don't Like
Post by: Ken B on March 13, 2015, 06:41:17 PM
Quote from: EigenUser on March 13, 2015, 12:18:52 AM
Perfect example for me last year would be Messiaen's Turangalila-Symphonie (now I like it and love it!). It had wonderfully sappy and bombastic melodies (which I'm a sucker for :-[), complex (yet beautiful) harmonies, and all sorts of rhythmic games. Not to mention the superb orchestration. I had trouble with his sound-world initially because of (1) repetition and (2) lots of high-pitched bells (i.e. celesta, glockenspiel, etc. -- made my ears ring). I guess I just got used to it.

I know exactly what you mean, though. "According to (x,y,z) qualities I should like this, but I don't!"

Here's the thing Nate. Adam is worried he is insane. "No, it's like how great Turangalila is" is the wrong way to reassure him.

:laugh: :P
Title: Re: Pieces You Love, But Don't Like
Post by: AdamFromWashington on March 15, 2015, 12:26:24 AM
Quote from: Ken B on March 13, 2015, 06:41:17 PM
Here's the thing Nate. Adam is worried he is insane. "No, it's like how great Turangalila is" is the wrong way to reassure him.

:laugh: :P

I'm slowly learning to accept the insanity. It's not so bad.

It's like, well, it's like...

Wait, one moment, Messiaen is at my window... He wants to play me some bird song recordings!

How nice of him.
Title: Re: Pieces You Love, But Don't Like
Post by: Wanderer on March 15, 2015, 03:09:55 AM
Quote from: jochanaan on March 13, 2015, 08:22:16 AM
Adam, it sounds as if what you're really saying is that you love individual moments or sections in the music of which you speak, but not the whole.  In other words, for you the whole is less than the sum of its parts...?

That's how I understand it, as well. For me, this mainly refers to some "black sheep" works I don't like or care for by composers I generally love, e.g. Dvořák's cello concerto or Shostakovich's string quartets.
Title: Re: Pieces You Love, But Don't Like
Post by: Mirror Image on March 15, 2015, 06:30:15 AM
Quote from: Wanderer on March 15, 2015, 03:09:55 AM
That's how I understand it, as well. For me, this mainly refers to some "black sheep" works I don't like or care for by composers I generally love, e.g. Dvořák's cello concerto or Shostakovich's string quartets.

Sounds like you're trying to make sense of something that can't be made sense out of. ;D I could never love a piece of music without initially liking it to begin with.
Title: Re: Pieces You Love, But Don't Like
Post by: AdamFromWashington on March 15, 2015, 10:05:08 AM
Quote from: Mirror Image on March 15, 2015, 06:30:15 AM
Sounds like you're trying to make sense of something that can't be made sense out of. ;D

It's my favorite hobby.  :P

But for the record, I'm usually not this arcane. In fact, that's the reason I started this thread--because I thought it would be confusing, different, and interesting.

Otherwise I'm too introverted to bother.  :-\

Title: Re: Pieces You Love, But Don't Like
Post by: EigenUser on March 15, 2015, 01:18:22 PM
Quote from: Ken B on March 13, 2015, 06:41:17 PM
Here's the thing Nate. Adam is worried he is insane. "No, it's like how great Turangalila is" is the wrong way to reassure him.

:laugh: :P
Ken, see thread: http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,24053.0.html

>:D
Title: Re: Pieces You Love, But Don't Like
Post by: Mirror Image on March 15, 2015, 02:44:52 PM
Quote from: Adam of the North(west) on March 15, 2015, 10:05:08 AM
It's my favorite hobby.  :P

But for the record, I'm usually not this arcane. In fact, that's the reason I started this thread--because I thought it would be confusing, different, and interesting.

Otherwise I'm too introverted to bother.  :-\

:)

So Adam of the NW, who are some of your favorite composers?
Title: Re: Pieces You Love, But Don't Like
Post by: Abuelo Igor on March 15, 2015, 02:53:36 PM
More specifically, who are some of the composers whose music you're crazy about in spite of not really approving of it?

(Maybe you need to lighten up a little and go with the flow  :))
Title: Re: Pieces You Love, But Don't Like
Post by: AdamFromWashington on March 15, 2015, 11:05:20 PM
Quote from: Mirror Image on March 15, 2015, 02:44:52 PM
:)

So Adam of the NW, who are some of your favorite composers?

Hmm...

Let's see what pops into my mind, free association style:

Ives

Copland

Sibelius

Shostakovich

John Adams

John Luther Adams

Nielsen

Mahler

Schubert

Prokofiev...

Schnittke

Stravinsky

And Bartok, no matter what I said about his 2nd Violin Concerto.

I've also started exploring Bruckner recently, and the results are promising.
Title: Re: Pieces You Love, But Don't Like
Post by: Wanderer on March 16, 2015, 12:14:02 AM
Quote from: Mirror Image on March 15, 2015, 06:30:15 AM
Sounds like you're trying to make sense of something that can't be made sense out of. ;D

No big thing. Lawyers do that for a living.  ;)
Title: Re: Pieces You Love, But Don't Like
Post by: AdamFromWashington on March 16, 2015, 12:59:21 AM
Quote from: Wanderer on March 16, 2015, 12:14:02 AM
No big thing. Lawyers do that for a living.  ;)

Which is why from now on, all my posts will fit neatly within a logical positivist philosophy.

"Do you ever activate your stereo and then sit down and listen to the vibrations in the air?"

Everyone can answer "Yes," and then we can move on to the next poll topic:

"Composer heights."

Nothing about "favorites," just a list.

8)
Title: Re: Pieces You Love, But Don't Like
Post by: Brian on March 16, 2015, 06:25:52 AM
Quote from: amw on March 13, 2015, 01:28:30 AM
Sibelius 6 (and 4) leaves me incredibly drained and depressed, same with Vaughan Williams 5.

For music I love despite it having no redeeming qualities whatsoever: Liszt's Album d'un voyageur III (the Swiss paraphrases) and more than a few Hungarian Rhapsodies. And anything by Johann Strauss II.
I'm glad somebody else feels that way about Sibelius 6 - and about Johann Strauss II, who, along with Franz von Suppe, makes up maybe 15% of my songs-playing-in-head.
Title: Re: Pieces You Love, But Don't Like
Post by: Jo498 on March 16, 2015, 08:23:33 AM
If you like Strauss and Suppé check out Fucik. There is more to him than "Entry of the Gladiators", several nice ouvertures and waltzes on the scale of Strauss' great ones.
Title: Re: Pieces You Love, But Don't Like
Post by: jochanaan on March 16, 2015, 10:47:33 AM
Quote from: Adam of the North(west) on March 15, 2015, 11:05:20 PM
Hmm...

Let's see what pops into my mind, free association style:

Ives

Copland

Sibelius

Shostakovich

John Adams

John Luther Adams

Nielsen

Mahler

Schubert

Prokofiev...

Schnittke

Stravinsky

And Bartok, no matter what I said about his 2nd Violin Concerto.

I've also started exploring Bruckner recently, and the results are promising.
You have good taste already. 8)
Title: Re: Pieces You Love, But Don't Like
Post by: amw on March 17, 2015, 03:45:26 AM
Quote from: Brian on March 16, 2015, 06:25:52 AM
I'm glad somebody else feels that way about Sibelius 6 - and about Johann Strauss II, who, along with Franz von Suppe, makes up maybe 15% of my songs-playing-in-head.
J Strauss II is either the greatest composer ever, or the worst one. I can't decide.

Right now I am ashamed to admit that most of my head-playing-time is dominated by the Ranz de chèvres paraphrase.
Title: Re: Pieces You Love, But Don't Like
Post by: jochanaan on March 17, 2015, 06:55:59 AM
Quote from: amw on March 17, 2015, 03:45:26 AM
J Strauss II is either the greatest composer ever, or the worst one. I can't decide...
If "greatest" equates to "greatest number of waltzes," then JSII is undoubtedly the greatest. :laugh:
Title: Re: Pieces You Love, But Don't Like
Post by: North Star on March 17, 2015, 07:28:24 AM
Quote from: jochanaan on March 17, 2015, 06:55:59 AM
If "greatest" equates to "greatest number of waltzes," then JSII is undoubtedly the greatest. :laugh:
Objectively speaking, Leif Segerstam and Rossini must be two of the very greatest composers.  8)
Title: Re: Pieces You Love, But Don't Like
Post by: Jo498 on March 17, 2015, 08:03:05 AM
What is the difference between ranz de chévres and ranz de vaches? Which actual paraphrase do you have in mind?
Title: Re: Pieces You Love, But Don't Like
Post by: Karl Henning on March 17, 2015, 08:41:52 AM
Goats and cows living together!
Title: Re: Pieces You Love, But Don't Like
Post by: jlaurson on March 18, 2015, 03:44:23 AM
Quote from: mc ukrneal on March 13, 2015, 03:54:45 AM
Your description (OP) makes me think the music clicks with you rationally/intellectually (brain), but not emotionally (heart). If that's not it, I really don't quite get it, but that's ok.

Have we gotten any further in establishing what was meant? There was a line that gave hints: "that you recognize as a masterwork..."

"...but leaves you feeling horrible."

I had you at "that you recognize as a masterwork but..." if you had continued with "don't love". Easy. Brahms Requiem. Bruckner Te Deum. Beethoven Missa Solemnis. Anything by Liszt*. Berlioz Symphonique Fantastique.

But: "...leaves you feeling horrible" seems to take the premise into yet another direction. 

*Exaggerated for effect.
Title: Re: Pieces You Love, But Don't Like
Post by: starrynight on March 18, 2015, 12:04:41 PM
I think pieces you really love tap into what your preference is at a particular time.  Those are the things you repeat listen to.  There's no point forcing love I think, though there is a point in working out understanding and appreciation of music (liking rather than love).
Title: Re: Pieces You Love, But Don't Like
Post by: San Antone on March 18, 2015, 12:24:04 PM
Quote
Keep in mind, I don't mean flat out disliking a piece of music or being indifferent to it. We all know what that's like, and it's nothing special. This is being drawn to a piece, loving every part, but just not enjoying it. 

Does anyone else know what I mean?

Not really. 

There are pieces to which I am drawn, the Durufle Requiem, for example - I love every part of it, the melodic content, the harmonies, the colors and textures, consequently, I enjoy it quite a lot.  I don't have a clue what you mean by "being drawn to a piece, loving every part, but just not enjoying it." 

The closest I can get to what you are talking about is knowing about a work or composer, say Wagner's Ring, and being very much drawn to the  idea of the undertaking, but hating the sound of the music in actuality. 

???
Title: Re: Pieces You Love, But Don't Like
Post by: AdamFromWashington on March 18, 2015, 06:27:04 PM
Quote from: jlaurson on March 18, 2015, 03:44:23 AM
Have we gotten any further in establishing what was meant? There was a line that gave hints: "that you recognize as a masterwork..."

Haha, I love how horribly I've confused everyone.

Sorry...

I think the final conclusion was just that I'm weird. I can love something and not really like it, even if no one else can.

It's all good.  8)

Everyone can stop trying to figure it out now. I didn't want the topic to be figuring out what the topic was!
Title: Re: Pieces You Love, But Don't Like
Post by: amw on March 18, 2015, 08:55:16 PM
Quote from: Jo498 on March 17, 2015, 08:03:05 AM
What is the difference between ranz de chévres and ranz de vaches? Which actual paraphrase do you have in mind?
Ooh do you not know this?

Have a listen! It will improve your life.*

[audio]https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/32084883/02-12%20-%20Franz%20Liszt%20-%20ALBUM%20D%27UN%20VOYAGEUR%2C%20S156%20%5B1834-1838%5D%EF%BC%9A%20Book%20III%20Paraphrases%EF%BC%9A%20%2012.%20Ranz%20de%20chevres%20%5Bde%20F.%20Huber%5D%20-%20Allegro%20finale.mp3[/audio]

* not really
Title: Re: Pieces You Love, But Don't Like
Post by: Jo498 on March 19, 2015, 12:42:05 AM
I have only ever encountered it with cows. Isn't there even an opera/operetta (Der Kuhreihen) about the fact that the ranz de vaches was forbidden to be played in the (French or German) Army because the Swiss soldiers would get homesick and desert.
(Mahler's Song "Zu Strassburg auf der Schanz" is about the same phenomenon)

Music of this kind appears in Guillaume Tell and Berlioz' Harold. But I only remember references as "ranz de vaches" never with goats.
Title: Re: Pieces You Love, But Don't Like
Post by: Karl Henning on March 19, 2015, 03:57:48 AM
Quote from: Jo498 on March 19, 2015, 12:42:05 AM
I have only ever encountered it with cows. Isn't there even an opera/operetta (Der Kuhreihen) about the fact that the ranz de vaches was forbidden to be played in the (French or German) Army because the Swiss soldiers would get homesick and desert.
(Mahler's Song "Zu Strassburg auf der Schanz" is about the same phenomenon)

Music of this kind appears in Guillaume Tell and Berlioz' Harold. But I only remember references as "ranz de vaches" never with goats.

I think you may mean the Symphonie fantastique.
Title: Re: Pieces You Love, But Don't Like
Post by: Jo498 on March 19, 2015, 04:05:29 AM
Maybe, but I thought one of the middle movements of Harold had a similar kind of tune in the oboe or cor anglais, despite this not being the Alps but the Abruzzi (or whatever).
Title: Re: Pieces You Love, But Don't Like
Post by: jlaurson on March 19, 2015, 04:36:29 AM
Quote from: Adam of the North(west) on March 18, 2015, 06:27:04 PM


I think the final conclusion was just that I'm weird. I can love something and not really like it, even if no one else can.


Sounds like an ingrown toenail... where you don't like the pain, but you LOVE pressing on it, to feel that pain. (Or so I've been told.)
Title: Re: Pieces You Love, But Don't Like
Post by: North Star on March 19, 2015, 04:40:33 AM
Quote from: karlhenning on March 19, 2015, 03:57:48 AM
I think you may mean the Symphonie fantastique.
There's also a reference in Hal (https://books.google.fi/books?id=jrF467sy4FkC&pg=PA102&lpg=PA102&dq=berlioz+harold+ranz+de+vaches&source=bl&ots=ApbzlaxN1S&sig=JIvZoOpcZ7bCMMnaF5pBGx_yfNU&hl=fi&sa=X&ei=e8MKVcy_CYzLaOa4gsAE&ved=0CBQQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=berlioz%20harold%20ranz%20de%20vaches&f=false)
Title: Re: Pieces You Love, But Don't Like
Post by: Karl Henning on March 19, 2015, 05:52:08 AM
Quote from: Jo498 on March 19, 2015, 04:05:29 AM
Maybe, but I thought one of the middle movements of Harold had a similar kind of tune in the oboe or cor anglais, despite this not being the Alps but the Abruzzi (or whatever).

Quote from: North Star on March 19, 2015, 04:40:33 AM
There's also a reference in Hal (https://books.google.fi/books?id=jrF467sy4FkC&pg=PA102&lpg=PA102&dq=berlioz+harold+ranz+de+vaches&source=bl&ots=ApbzlaxN1S&sig=JIvZoOpcZ7bCMMnaF5pBGx_yfNU&hl=fi&sa=X&ei=e8MKVcy_CYzLaOa4gsAE&ved=0CBQQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=berlioz%20harold%20ranz%20de%20vaches&f=false)

Thanks, gents!