I'd like to get to know this composer's music a bit better, so I'd appreciate any suggestions about what to listen to.
This one maybe:
[Asin]B001UDYC46[/asin]
Or this:
www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2006/July06/Bass_Viols_4820822.htm
Jordi Savall has recorded at least two sets of the music for viols, but I think this recording is special:
[asin]B0001K9IKC[/asin]
Quote from: sanantonio on May 12, 2015, 10:19:36 AM
Jordi Savall has recorded at least two sets of the music for viols, but I think this recording is special:
[asin]B0001K9IKC[/asin]
Yes! +1
Quote from: sanantonio on May 12, 2015, 10:19:36 AM
Jordi Savall has recorded at least two sets of the music for viols, but I think this recording is special:
[asin]B0001K9IKC[/asin]
Yes the Tombeau for Lully on that one is expressive. It would be interesting to see whether a more classical performance would work.The Viol/Theorbo combo is nice.
Another thing which I'm interested in is this: where you have a combo of viol and plucked instrument, it's sometimes played like the harpsichord is basso continuo, rather than a genuine sonata for viol and harpsichord. I know from Bach's music, and I would say in Forqueray's too, that the egalitarian approach can be really rewarding, so I'm curious to hear how it would be in Marais.
Marais is supposed to have played like the devil. It would be nice to have some devilry.
I rather like this fun work as well:
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41sjUiriwDL._SS280.jpg)
One thing not to forget is that Marais wrote of his Bk 2 of viol pieces
QuoteJ'ay eu attention en les composant à les rendre propres pour être jouées sur toutes sortes d'instrumens comme l'Orgue, Clavecin, Theorbe, Luth, Violon, Flutte allemande
Quote from: Mandryka on May 12, 2015, 12:16:06 PM
One thing not to forget is that Marais wrote of his Bk 2 of viol pieces
If you haven't done so yet, you should hear Savall's discs.
No love here for the Hantaï recordings?
Quote from: king ubu on May 12, 2015, 10:49:35 PM
No love here for the Hantaï recordings?
Fantastic disks, no doubt. I think they were the first disks I owned devoted to Marais, even before than any Savall disk. Back then I thought the Hantaï brothers would record together much more music than they finally did. Even there has been a lot of time since I saw a monographic recording by Jérôme Hantaï (who's also an accomplished fortepianist). :)
Alright - I enjoy these two double disc sets a lot as well, glad to hear I'm not alone!
As for Perl, the whole Mittelalterjahrmarkt and Grufti marketing crap puts me off a bit, though no doubt she's an accomplished musician. Guess I should give that Marais disc a try, eventually ...
Quote from: king ubu on May 13, 2015, 03:46:13 AM
As for Perl, the whole Mittelalterjahrmarkt and Grufti marketing crap puts me off a bit,
I have no idea what you are talking about ... and feel lucky.
;)
Quote from: sanantonio on May 13, 2015, 04:45:12 AM
I have no idea what you are talking about ... and feel lucky.
;)
Ha ha. But now you know . And laziness is no excuse for ignorance anyway >:D
Quote from: king ubu on May 13, 2015, 07:02:03 AM
Ha ha. But now you know . And laziness is no excuse for ignorance anyway >:D
I'm not lazy; I just don't care about marketing and would never let it get in the way of listening to a talented artist.
;)
Quote from: sanantonio on May 12, 2015, 12:49:03 PM
If you haven't done so yet, you should hear Savall's discs.
Yes, very rich and warm, Savall always makes me think of those actors, all a bit old fashioned nowadays, who were about "beautiful voice" and grandiosity - people like Laurence Olivier. Or singers like Gerhard Husch.
Let me recommend one to you - Paolo Pandolfo, who's the opposite of Savall really - more aggitated, very imaginative rhythmically, he tends to whisper and murmur rather than to sing forh. I just find that approach very involving and intriguing, partly because you have to focus more to catch the music: it's like Pandolfo's viol is trying to escape you.
There are two Marais recordings with Pandolfo, both outstanding.
Quote from: Mandryka on May 13, 2015, 10:57:41 PM
Yes, very rich and warm, Savall always makes me think of those actors, all a bit old fashioned nowadays, who were about "beautiful voice" and grandiosity - people like Laurence Olivier. Or singers like Gerhard Husch.
Let me recommend one to you - Paolo Pandolfo, who's the opposite of Savall really - more aggitated, very imaginative rhythmically, he tends to whisper and murmur rather than to sing forh. I just find that approach very involving and intriguing, partly because you have to focus more to catch the music: it's like Pandolfo's viol is trying to escape you.
There are two Marais recordings with Pandolfo, both outstanding.
If his Marais is on Spotify I did not find it. But found some on YouTube. Will report back.
Quote from: MishaK on May 12, 2015, 11:36:46 AM
I rather like this fun work as well:
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41sjUiriwDL._SS280.jpg)
Yes! Thanks for pointing that out to me. The sonate à la Marésienne is great fun, light, fresh music. Quite a contrast from the depth of the suite d'un goût étranger.
Re Goût étranger, I can unearth just three recordings: Savall and Coin (both outstanding) and Charbonnier (not heard -- does anyone like his Marais recordings?) Surely there are more?
vOXbOX?
(http://images-eu.amazon.com/images/P/B000067G4D.02.LZZZZZZZ.jpg)
If Book 4 is Marais,' Lear, Book 5 is his Tempest. If Book 4 is Marais' Otello, Book 5 is his Falstaff. If Book 4 is Marais' op 131, Book 5 is his op 135. If Goût Etranger is his Leipzig Chorales, Book 5 is his Musical Offering.
Book 5 has none of the showy OTT-ness of Book 4, but it glows with mature good natured humane-ness. I've listened to two recordings so far, Savall and this one by Charbonnier and his copains. Charbonnier's classicism suits this music to a tee.
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/81wX1m3n2SL._SL1500_.jpg)
The new Pandolfo recording can be currently sampled in full via Dutch radio.
http://www.radio4.nl/diskotabel/plaatpaaloverzicht/
Crossposted from the WAYLT thread:
(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/71vkC1UsApL._SS500_.jpg)
Hat tip aukhawk. :)
A nice and prety recording! But I don't think I can agree with the assessment of the L'Achéron.
Did some A-B comparisons. And if anything La Rêveuse offers the "simpler", more straight forward performances. L'Achéron the more elaborate, ornamented and textured ones. Seriousminded, perhaps due to the detailed approach in the slower parts, but plenty of liveliness and variety overall.
But I could understand if L'Achéron would be too fussy and laboured for some. I've always been a big fan of the recordings by Jean-Louis Charbonnier and his ensemble (Pierre Vérany/ Ligia). Those might be more to your liking: more straightforward and energetic. For me personally, L'Achéron is a game changer with an added layer of musical detail and nuance.
Quote from: Que on May 24, 2021, 01:39:20 AM
Crossposted from the WAYLT thread:
(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/71vkC1UsApL._SS500_.jpg)
Hat tip aukhawk. :)
A nice and prety recording! But I don't think I can agree with the assessment of the L'Achéron.
Did some A-B comparisons. And if anything La Rêveuse offers the "simpler", more straight forward performances. L'Achéron the more elaborate, ornamented and textured ones. Seriousminded, perhaps due to the detailed approach in the slower parts, but plenty of liveliness and variety overall.
But I could understand if L'Achéron would be too fussy and laboured for some. I've always been a big fan of the recordings by Jean-Louis Charbonnier and his ensemble (Pierre Vérany/ Ligia). Those might be more to your liking: more straightforward and energetic. For me personally, L'Achéron is a game changer with an added layer of musical detail and nuance.
The problem with Charbonnier is that in the later books (Bk 5 I think) a voice introduces each piece.
Quote from: Mandryka on May 24, 2021, 02:37:26 AM
The problem with Charbonnier is that in the later books (Bk 5 I think) a voice introduces each piece.
A nuisance for sure... All these declamations and recitations used to be pretty common on French Baroque recordings.... ???
Luckily they left those out on the reissue of the complete Book IV (Arion/Pièrre Vérany)
Below is a post I left in the 'WAYL2... thread' this morning - I've been listening to all 4 recordings (4 discs each; Bk II, 5 discs) of
Francois Joubert-Caillet & L'Acheron on Spotify for a number of months now, mainly spurred on by posts from
Harry and
Que - at the bottom are the 3 double-disc sets in my collection w/ only 4 CDs being from the viol books (II-IV) - at the moment I'm listening to
Jean-Louis Charbonnier and enjoying; the viol seems more prominent and accompaniment less so compared to
Joubert-Caillet, IMO.
Looking on BRO HERE (https://www.broinc.com/media?s=marais), there are 2 double-disc other sets w/
J-L Charbonnier ($14 each) - not a whole lot of difference vs. the 4 and 5 disc sets of
F J-C/L'Acheron - so, just opening up the discussion again - now, just added to my collection below is the
Jordi Savall 5-disc set which I had misplaced, sorry all. Thanks for any comments/opinions/suggestions. Dave :)
QuoteQuote from: "Harry" on November 24, 2021, 06:01:28 AM
Marin Marais.
Quatrieme Livre de Pieces de Viole (1717) Disc I. Francois Joubert Caillet, Bass ViolL'Acheron.
First listen. Every bit as good as the previous volumes, Marais is clearly walking new territory. More embellishments, and Italian influences.
Hi Harry - I'm listening to the same music (Bk IV) w/ Joubert-Caillet on Spotify (to my den speakers) - I have enjoyed all of his 'Marais recordings' but have not yet purchased any, plus looking at the composer's composition list quoted below, there is a fifth book - also just checking what I already own (the 3 double-disc sets below); the first two are selections from Bks. II-IV, and the 2CDs w/ Musica Pacifica the Pieces en Trio; SO, just 4 discs total from the viol books - and Joubert-Caillet now has Bks. I-IV w/ 16 discs recorded, and is Bk. V to come? Plan - will listen to what I own this afternoon and look for some 'bargain prices' on Francois w/ L'Acheron! Dave :)
(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/614q6bdJNdL._SL1200_.jpg) (https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/816TThIFhIL._SL1450_.jpg)
QuoteInstrumental music (Source (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marin_Marais))
* Pieces for 1 and 2 viols, Book I (20 August 1686, only solo viols, 1 March 1689 first published with associated basso continuo)
* Pieces en trio pour les flutes, violon, et dessus de viole (published on 20 December 1692, dedicated to Marie-Anne Roland)
* Pieces for 1 and 2 viols, Book II (1701), including 32 couplets on "Les folies d'Espagne"
* Pièces de violes, Book III (1711)
* Pieces for 1 and 3 viols, Book IV (1717; includes the famous Suite d'un Goût Étranger.)
* La gamme et autres morceaux de symphonie (1723, includes La Gamme en forme d'un petit Opéra, Sonate à la Maresienne, Sonnerie de Ste-Geneviève du Mont-de-Paris)
* Pièces de violes, Book V (1725)
* 145 Pieces for viol (ca. 1680), about 100 pieces were published in Books I – III
Operas
* Idylle dramatique of 1686 (music lost)
* Alcide (1693, in collaboration with Louis Lully)
* Ariane et Bacchus (1696)
* Alcyone (premiered on 18 February 1706)
* Sémélé (1709)
* Pantomime des pages (with Louis Lully, music lost)
Sacred works
* Te Deum (1701) for the recovery of the Dauphin (lost)
* Motet Domine salvum fac regem (1701) for the recovery of the Dauphin (lost)
(https://cont-4.p-cdn.us/images/f4/71/1e/74/e3794650ab7122177bbd05aa/640W_640H.jpg) (https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/71fOe1o86SL._SL1300_.jpg) (https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/519tc8b6YzL.jpg) (https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/616WA8XEXdL.jpg)
Just put the post quoted below in the 'movie thread' - thought that I'd repost here - Dave :)
QuoteTous les Matins du Monde (English: All the Mornings of the World) (1991) - French film w/ English subtitles about Marin Marais and Sainte-Colombe; brief summary below - the old Marais portrayed by Gérard Depardieu, and his younger self by his son Guillaume (1971-2008); Jean-Pierre Marielle as S-Colombe (other actors in link below); Nominations and Awards in second pic (from same link).
"Apart from Savall, the musicians are Monserrat Figueras and Mari-Cristina Kiehr (sopranos), Christophe Coin and Jérôme Hantaï (viola da gamba), Rolf Lislevand (theorbo) and Pierre Hantaï (harpsichord and organ)." Prompted to stream this film from Amazon ($4 rental, and seen before) last night because I spent the day listening to my Marais collection, including the 5-disc set w/ Savall, Koopman, and Hopkinson Smith. Roger Ebert's review from 1992 HERE (https://www.rogerebert.com/reviews/tous-les-matins-du-monde-1992) for those interested - probably a MUST see for those into this music. Dave :)
QuoteThe film revolves around the late-17th/early-18th-century composer Marin Marais's life as a musician, his mentor Monsieur de Sainte-Colombe and Sainte-Colombe's daughters. The ageing Marais, played by Gérard Depardieu, narrates the story, while Depardieu's son Guillaume Depardieu plays the young Marais. The haunting sound of his instrument, the viol (viola da gamba), here played by Jordi Savall, is heard throughout the film and plays a major role in setting the mood. Though fictional, the story is based on historical characters, and what little is known about their lives is generally accurately portrayed. (Source (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tous_les_Matins_du_Monde))
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/b/bf/Tous_les_matins_du_monde-film.jpg) (https://photos.smugmug.com/Other/Miscellaneous/i-NSV69Nj/0/e86c4260/O/Tous_Savall_Awards.png)
Quote from: SonicMan46 on November 25, 2021, 07:31:11 AM
Just put the post quoted below in the 'movie thread' - thought that I'd repost here - Dave :)
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/b/bf/Tous_les_matins_du_monde-film.jpg) (https://photos.smugmug.com/Other/Miscellaneous/i-NSV69Nj/0/e86c4260/O/Tous_Savall_Awards.png)
That movie was amazing. Watched it earlier this year.
Quote from: vers la flamme on November 25, 2021, 03:23:58 PM
That movie was amazing. Watched it earlier this year.
The book is good, Qignard generally is outstanding in his novels and has a major cult following in France for his philosophical works too.
Does anyone know of a recording of the pieces en trio with flutes (or flute and violin ) rather than recorders?
Quote from: Mandryka on November 25, 2021, 06:45:00 PMThe book is good, Qignard generally is outstanding in his novels and has a major cult following in France for his philosophical works too.
I have since read the book, and also thought it was really good.
Quote from: badflautist on May 29, 2023, 12:10:44 PMDoes anyone know of a recording of the pieces en trio with flutes (or flute and violin ) rather than recorders?
Not sure? I own the 2-CD set below (review attached if interested) w/
Musica Pacifica but a recorder is used (plus an oboe added) - happy w/ the performance. Dave :)
(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/519tc8b6YzL.jpg) (https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/41dHDB5sm0L.jpg)
Quote from: SonicMan46 on May 29, 2023, 01:08:49 PMNot sure? I own the 2-CD set below (review attached if interested) w/ Musica Pacifica but a recorder is used (plus an oboe added) - happy w/ the performance. Dave :)
(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/519tc8b6YzL.jpg) (https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/41dHDB5sm0L.jpg)
Thanks for answering. Actually I have that recording, it's fine and I'm not saying there's anything wrong with using recorders, I just prefer the flute sound, especially nice low pitch Hotteterre period flutes.