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The Music Room => Composer Discussion => Topic started by: springrite on May 16, 2015, 08:47:35 PM

Title: Popularity of composers based on # of pages on Composer Discussion
Post by: springrite on May 16, 2015, 08:47:35 PM
Brian: 340

Bruckner: 124

Brahms: 44

Sibelius: 89

Stockhausen: 56 (mostly from one person)

RVW: 120

Haydn: 487

Beethoven: 72

Shostakovich: 74

Koechlin: 31

Martinu: 35

Elgar: 148

Prokofiev: 68

Delius: 39

Bach: 23

Schnittke: 48

Bax: 31

Henning: 250



Just a sampling  ;)
Title: Re: Popularity of composers based on # of pages on Composer Discussion
Post by: vandermolen on May 16, 2015, 10:09:46 PM
Thanks that is interesting. No Miaskovsky  :'(
Title: Re: Popularity of composers based on # of pages on Composer Discussion
Post by: Gurn Blanston on May 17, 2015, 05:32:58 AM
That's interesting, Paul. Rather unexpected really. Not the Haydn and Henning, 'H' is always a popular starting letter for a composer's name (or at least there is some explanation somewhere). No, what I mean is Brian far outstripping Beethoven, Brahms and Mozart, who are such popular favorites. I'm not making a value judgment, just being surprised...  :o

8)
Title: Re: Popularity of composers based on # of pages on Composer Discussion
Post by: TheGSMoeller on May 17, 2015, 05:38:14 AM
Perhaps because such composers as Beethoven and Mozart have already been so heavily discussed in any sort of classical music appreciation medium. Many of us, or at least I speak for myself, search for information and history on those composers that aren't commonly referred to.
That is truly the greatest thing I've gathered from GMG, exploring new works from composers I either never knew about or was not very familiar with.
Title: Re: Popularity of composers based on # of pages on Composer Discussion
Post by: Gurn Blanston on May 17, 2015, 05:54:39 AM
Quote from: TheGSMoeller on May 17, 2015, 05:38:14 AM
Perhaps because such composers as Beethoven and Mozart have already been so heavily discussed in any sort of classical music appreciation medium. Many of us, or at least I speak for myself, search for information and history on those composers that aren't commonly referred to.
That is truly the greatest thing I've gathered from GMG, exploring new works from composers I either never knew about or was not very familiar with.

Seems sensible enough. It may seem odd, but that's what attracted me to Haydn; liked the music, couldn't find any reliable information about it, developed it myself. I would guess, though, that if you gathered up all the miscellaneous 'loose threads' about Mozart and Beethoven's music and puled it together with their composer pages, the results would be a bit more what one would expect.

8)
Title: Re: Popularity of composers based on # of pages on Composer Discussion
Post by: Dax on May 17, 2015, 06:17:58 AM
Quote from: James on May 17, 2015, 06:13:16 AM
I deleted my posts

Why?
Title: Re: Popularity of composers based on # of pages on Composer Discussion
Post by: Wakefield on May 17, 2015, 06:48:18 AM
This counting is interesting, but it brings some inaccuracies. For instance, Bach lovers are notoriously reluctant to post in the thread named "Bach's Bungalow". It's almost a residual thread where are posted those things that don't fit in some other place.  And there are specific threads devoted to a lot of particular Bach works.

About Haydn: It's true, I think he is currently the most popular composer here. And the story of this popularity begins, I'm sure, with the move of Gurn from "the Corner" to "da House". At least, so will be written by historians.  :)   

Maybe a method more accurate would be to count how many times every name is mentioned here.

Title: Re: Popularity of composers based on # of pages on Composer Discussion
Post by: North Star on May 17, 2015, 07:03:37 AM
Quite a few symphony cyclists there, unsurprisingly.
Title: Re: Popularity of composers based on # of pages on Composer Discussion
Post by: Gurn Blanston on May 17, 2015, 08:04:56 AM
I think it is more accurately a reflection of what people's interests are. I have always recognized that we who are actually interested in the composer are far outnumbered by the record collectors, it is just the way of things, no insult intended. But the Composer Page format lends itself to biography and history. I have made a concerted, long term effort to encourage people to post even their recording posts in the Haus, thereby keeping all things Haydn together, but it does tend to skew the page totals. On the other hand, everyone now knows that if they want to know anything about Haydn, bio OR recording, they can go to one place for it. Which is good and bad, given you have to search a bit more... :-\

8)
Title: Re: Popularity of composers based on # of pages on Composer Discussion
Post by: NJ Joe on May 17, 2015, 08:34:18 AM
Quote from: TheGSMoeller on May 17, 2015, 05:38:14 AM
That is truly the greatest thing I've gathered from GMG, exploring new works from composers I either never knew about or was not very familiar with.

+1
Title: Re: Popularity of composers based on # of pages on Composer Discussion
Post by: Sammy on May 17, 2015, 08:46:39 AM
An interesting list, but I doubt it has much meaning.  Concerning Brian, another board I frequent hardly ever mentions the man.
Title: Re: Popularity of composers based on # of pages on Composer Discussion
Post by: Wakefield on May 17, 2015, 12:38:33 PM
Quote from: Gurn Blanston on May 17, 2015, 08:04:56 AM
I think it is more accurately a reflection of what people's interests are. I have always recognized that we who are actually interested in the composer are far outnumbered by the record collectors, it is just the way of things, no insult intended. But the Composer Page format lends itself to biography and history. I have made a concerted, long term effort to encourage people to post even their recording posts in the Haus, thereby keeping all things Haydn together, but it does tend to skew the page totals. On the other hand, everyone now knows that if they want to know anything about Haydn, bio OR recording, they can go to one place for it. Which is good and bad, given you have to search a bit more... :-\

8)

Well, at some extent, you have built da Haus this way, but - as a matter of fact - this is not the way that the vast majority of Composer's Pages are built. For better or for worse, this is basically a collectors' forum; learned collectors, but collectors at the end. 
Title: Re: Popularity of composers based on # of pages on Composer Discussion
Post by: Gurn Blanston on May 17, 2015, 01:30:11 PM
Quote from: Gordo on May 17, 2015, 12:38:33 PM
Well, at some extent, you have built da Haus this way, but - as a matter of fact - this is not the way that the vast majority of Composer's Pages are built. For better or for worse, this is basically a collectors' forum; learned collectors, but collectors at the end.

Yes, you are right on all counts. I feel as though a person who starts a thread should take ownership of it to some extent. There are any number of pages here where the OP never even came back to deal with replies. They just started a page for the sake of doing so. But if a thread is well-tended, then it is a benefit for everyone who seeks information in the future. A legacy, as it were.   :)

8)
Title: Re: Popularity of composers based on # of pages on Composer Discussion
Post by: DaveF on May 17, 2015, 01:48:14 PM
Quote from: Sammy on May 17, 2015, 08:46:39 AM
Concerning Brian, another board I frequent hardly ever mentions the man.
The Brian thread here is unusual in being the unofficial forum for the Havergal Brian Society, on which members discuss anything and everything, Brian-related or not - the death of British light entertainer Keith Harris recently, for example.  (I'm a former HBS member myself, and of course a huge Keith Harris and Orville fan, so I'm not criticising this practice - just observing.)
Title: Re: Popularity of composers based on # of pages on Composer Discussion
Post by: Gurn Blanston on May 17, 2015, 01:53:08 PM
Quote from: DaveF on May 17, 2015, 01:48:14 PM
The Brian thread here is unusual in being the unofficial forum for the Havergal Brian Society, on which members discuss anything and everything, Brian-related or not - the death of British light entertainer Keith Harris recently, for example.  (I'm a former HBS member myself, and of course a huge Keith Harris and Orville fan, so I'm not criticising this practice - just observing.)

Yes, I noted this phenomenon a long time ago, and I think it is a reasonable, harmless practice that is good for the forum and those members, and there is even a solid nugget of Brian info in there every now and again.  :)

8)
Title: Re: Popularity of composers based on # of pages on Composer Discussion
Post by: Marc on May 17, 2015, 02:11:53 PM
IMHO, the amount of pages attributed to certain composers in the Composer Discussion at GMG only says something (i.c. everything ;)) about the amount of pages attibuted to those certain composers in the Composer Discussion at GMG.
Title: Re: Popularity of composers based on # of pages on Composer Discussion
Post by: Wakefield on May 17, 2015, 02:17:53 PM
Quote from: Gurn Blanston on May 17, 2015, 01:30:11 PM
Yes, you are right on all counts. I feel as though a person who starts a thread should take ownership of it to some extent. There are any number of pages here where the OP never even came back to deal with replies. They just started a page for the sake of doing so. But if a thread is well-tended, then it is a benefit for everyone who seeks information in the future. A legacy, as it were.   :)

8)

I understand exactly what are you saying. A feeling of ownership and responsibility in regards the threads that we start.

It can sound a bit ridiculous, but this is the reason why, over the years, I have only started two or three threads here: I'm not sure if I can take care of them. Actually, I think I have never started a properly musical thread. I know it can sound a bit prudish, but it's the way I think. 

:)
Title: Re: Popularity of composers based on # of pages on Composer Discussion
Post by: Wakefield on May 17, 2015, 02:22:41 PM
Quote from: Marc on May 17, 2015, 02:11:53 PM
IMHO, the amount of pages attributed to certain composers in the Composer Discussion at GMG only says something (i.c. everything ;)) about the amount of pages attibuted to those certain composers in the Composer Discussion at GMG.

I doubt it.
Title: Re: Popularity of composers based on # of pages on Composer Discussion
Post by: Ken B on May 17, 2015, 03:07:45 PM
Quote from: vandermolen on May 16, 2015, 10:09:46 PM
Thanks that is interesting. No Miaskovsky  :'(

Thankfully few so benighted as to diss him, thus no discussion.  Unlike that Haydn fellow.  ;)
Title: Re: Popularity of composers based on # of pages on Composer Discussion
Post by: Gurn Blanston on May 17, 2015, 03:27:21 PM
Quote from: Ken B on May 17, 2015, 03:07:45 PM
Thankfully few so benighted as to diss him, thus no discussion.  Unlike that Haydn fellow.  ;)

Hell, even I like Miaskovsky!   0:)

8)
Title: Re: Popularity of composers based on # of pages on Composer Discussion
Post by: Gurn Blanston on May 17, 2015, 03:30:37 PM
Quote from: Gordo on May 17, 2015, 02:17:53 PM
I understand exactly what are you saying. A feeling of ownership and responsibility in regards the threads that we start.

It can sound a bit ridiculous, but this is the reason why, over the years, I have only started two or three threads here: I'm not sure if I can take care of them. Actually, I think I have never started a properly musical thread. I know it can sound a bit prudish, but it's the way I think. 

:)

Well, short of necessity (something to do with my job) or questions non-musical in The Diner, I have only started a very few threads myself in the last 10 years. And for just that reason. My own wish is for fewer, better threads. Can't have it all though, can we?  :)

8)
Title: Re: Popularity of composers based on # of pages on Composer Discussion
Post by: springrite on May 17, 2015, 04:57:23 PM
This thread is half in jest, as I know the numbers does not represent much, just an interesting statistics. A truly popular composer tends to be spread out into multiple threads, such as Beethoven into sonatas, symphonies, and Bach into Cantatas, Goldberg Variations, piano vs. harpsichord, etc.

Title: Re: Popularity of composers based on # of pages on Composer Discussion
Post by: Marc on May 18, 2015, 02:06:17 AM
Quote from: springrite on May 17, 2015, 04:57:23 PM
[....] A truly popular composer tends to be spread out into multiple threads, such as Beethoven into sonatas, symphonies, and Bach into Cantatas, Goldberg Variations, piano vs. harpsichord, etc.

Indeed.

Plus several other variables and indicators.

Enthousiastic behaviour of one particular member for instance, who gets about half a dozen enthousiastic beliebers, they're blabbering around for over 100 pages, whist 99% of the other members are listening to other composers and only mentioning their listening experiences once in a month in the 'what are you listening to' (et al) threads.

(Like that nutcase [X], who suddenly went mad about [Y] and his pipe instrument some years ago, and probably made some members believe that the most popular music on this board was [Y]'s organ music.)

:P
Title: Re: Popularity of composers based on # of pages on Composer Discussion
Post by: Christo on May 18, 2015, 02:56:53 AM
Thanks, Paul, for this scientifically conducted, strict empirical proof of the relative importance of composers.  ;) Ranking them again, makes:

1.   Haydn: 487
2.   Brian: 340
3.   Henning: 250
4.   Elgar: 148
5.   Bruckner: 124
6.   Vaughan Williams: 120
7.   Sibelius: 89
8.   Shostakovich: 74
9.   Beethoven: 72
10.   Prokofiev: 68
11.   Stockhausen: 56 (mostly non James)
12.   Schnittke: 48
13.   Brahms: 44
14.   Delius: 39
15.   Martinu: 35
16.   Koechlin: 31
17.   Bax: 31
18.   Bach: 23
19.   Beckenbauer: 0

(As Monty Python would remark, wonder what Beckenbauer is doing here).


Title: Re: Popularity of composers based on # of pages on Composer Discussion
Post by: Marc on May 18, 2015, 03:05:29 AM
Quote from: Christo on May 18, 2015, 02:56:53 AM
Thanks, Paul, for this scientifically conducted, strict empirical proof of the relative importance of composers.  ;) Ranking them again, makes:

1.   Haydn: 487
2.   Brian: 340
3.   Henning: 250
4.   Elgar: 148
5.   Bruckner: 124
6.   Vaughan Williams: 120
7.   Sibelius: 89
8.   Shostakovich: 74
9.   Beethoven: 72
10.   Prokofiev: 68
11.   Stockhausen: 56 (mostly non James)
12.   Schnittke: 48
13.   Brahms: 44
14.   Delius: 39
15.   Martinu: 35
16.   Koechlin: 31
17.   Bax: 31
18.   Bach: 23
19.   Beckenbauer: 0

(As Monty Python would remark, wonder what Beckenbauer is doing here).

Yes, and I wonder what empirically happened to Mahler (165).
And Mozart (47).

EDIT: mind you, the formerly composer section discussion with professor Newman about W.A. Mozart went up to 88 pages, until the moderators decided to move it (along with its drunk participants) to The Diner.

So: Mozart (135).

(Et cetera.)
Title: Re: Popularity of composers based on # of pages on Composer Discussion
Post by: Luke on May 18, 2015, 03:07:19 AM
And Ottevanger (111)  ;)  ;)
Title: Re: Popularity of composers based on # of pages on Composer Discussion
Post by: Marc on May 18, 2015, 03:09:45 AM
Quote from: Luke on May 18, 2015, 03:07:19 AM
And Ottevanger (111)  ;)  ;)

YES!
Title: Re: Popularity of composers based on # of pages on Composer Discussion
Post by: ritter on May 18, 2015, 03:10:02 AM
I protest most vehemently!!!!  >:D

There is clearly a conspiracy by obscure forces to ignore Pierre Boulez (at 47 pages) in this ground-breaking statistic! I demand that immediate corrrective action be taken (accompnaied by aplogies from the perpetrators of this affront)!!!   ;D
Title: Re: Popularity of composers based on # of pages on Composer Discussion
Post by: Marc on May 18, 2015, 03:11:20 AM
Quote from: ritter on May 18, 2015, 03:10:02 AM
I protest most vehemently!!!!  >:D

There is clearly a conspiration by obscure forces to ignore Pierre Boulez (at 47 pages) in this ground-breaking statistic! I demand that immediate corrrective action be taken (accompnaied by aplogies from the perpetrators of this affront)!!!   ;D

YES!
Title: Re: Popularity of composers based on # of pages on Composer Discussion
Post by: North Star on May 18, 2015, 03:42:35 AM
GMG Top 51 (# posts)

Haydn's Haus                    9732
Brian                                 6810
Mahler Mania Rebooted       3284
Elgar's Hillside                     2943
Bruckner's Abbey                  2467

Vaughan Williams Veranda     2383
Snowshoed Sibelius            1769
Dmitri's Dacha                    1473
The Carter Corner            1461
Beethoven                         1428

Prokofiev's Paddy Wagon   1350
Stockhausen's Spaceship   1118
Alfred Schnittke                   940
Boulez                             934
Mozart                           928

Brahms                          864
Pettersson                    850
Delius                            771
Chez Stravinsky            716
Martinů                         686

Sir Arnold Bax               618
Koechlin                        617
Strauss's House            612
Xenakis's Xen                502
Viva Vivaldi!                   468

Bach's Bungalow           459
Ligeti                             432
Tippett                           418
Schubert                        414
  Cage
  Schönberg                    403

Langgaard                      395
  Ives
  Liszt                              392
Feldman                          387

  Messiaen
  Holmboe                       377         
Braga-Santos                 376
Domenico Scarlatti         371
Dvorak's Den                 365

Debussy's Corner         360
Bartók                          355
William Schuman          351
Penderecki                   349
Nielsen                         345

Britten                          327
Schumann                     322
Tchaikovsky                   319
Janáček (Leoš' Lair)       317
Daniel Jones                  301

Hector Berlioz                300
Title: Re: Popularity of composers based on # of pages on Composer Discussion
Post by: Florestan on May 18, 2015, 05:20:10 AM
Franz Schubert doesn´t even have a dedicated generic thread.  ;D
Title: Re: Popularity of composers based on # of pages on Composer Discussion
Post by: San Antone on May 18, 2015, 05:25:09 AM
Quote from: Florestan on May 18, 2015, 05:20:10 AM
Franz Schubert doesn´t even have a dedicated generic thread.  ;D

He does: http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,7294
Title: Re: Popularity of composers based on # of pages on Composer Discussion
Post by: North Star on May 18, 2015, 05:37:10 AM
Quote from: Florestan on May 18, 2015, 05:20:10 AM
Franz Schubert doesn´t even have a dedicated generic thread.  ;D
Quote from: sanantonio on May 18, 2015, 05:25:09 AM
He does: http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,7294
The 29th most popular with 414 replies, too.  8)
Title: Re: Popularity of composers based on # of pages on Composer Discussion
Post by: Florestan on May 18, 2015, 05:40:32 AM
My bad, then.  :D

Title: Re: Popularity of composers based on # of pages on Composer Discussion
Post by: Karl Henning on May 18, 2015, 09:41:40 AM
Quote from: Gurn Blanston on May 17, 2015, 03:27:21 PM
Hell, even I like Miaskovsky!   0:)

8)

The quartet which the Pacificas folded in with one of the instalments of their Shostakovich cycle, was genuinely value added.
Title: Re: Popularity of composers based on # of pages on Composer Discussion
Post by: Karl Henning on May 18, 2015, 09:46:36 AM
Quote from: Christo on May 18, 2015, 02:56:53 AM
Thanks, Paul, for this scientifically conducted, strict empirical proof of the relative importance of composers.

But:

Quote from: springrite on May 17, 2015, 04:57:23 PM
This thread is half in jest, as I know the numbers does not represent much, just an interesting statistics. A truly popular composer tends to be spread out into multiple threads, such as Beethoven into sonatas, symphonies, and Bach into Cantatas, Goldberg Variations, piano vs. harpsichord, etc.
Title: Re: Popularity of composers based on # of pages on Composer Discussion
Post by: Jo498 on May 18, 2015, 10:16:26 AM
Quote from: karlhenning on May 18, 2015, 09:41:40 AM
The quartet which the Pacificas folded in with one of the instalments of their Shostakovich cycle, was genuinely value added.
I am still debating myself whether the 4? non-Shosty-quartets would be worth that moderate investment (with 4 Shosty-cycles on the shelf I clearly cannot justify it for the Shosty...)
Title: Re: Popularity of composers based on # of pages on Composer Discussion
Post by: North Star on May 18, 2015, 10:16:44 AM
Quote from: karlhenning on May 18, 2015, 09:46:36 AM
But:

Quote from: North Star on May 18, 2015, 03:42:35 AM
Daniel Jones                  301

Hector Berlioz                300
So you're saying that Daniel Jones might not be more popular as Berlioz at GMG, Karl? Sounds unlikely. . .
Title: Re: Popularity of composers based on # of pages on Composer Discussion
Post by: Karl Henning on May 18, 2015, 10:30:13 AM
Quote from: Jo498 on May 18, 2015, 10:16:26 AM
I am still debating myself whether the 4? non-Shosty-quartets would be worth that moderate investment (with 4 Shosty-cycles on the shelf I clearly cannot justify it for the Shosty...)

The Weinberg is also a superb piece.  (And personally, I consider the Prokofiev and Schnittke above question  8)  )
Title: Re: Popularity of composers based on # of pages on Composer Discussion
Post by: Karl Henning on May 18, 2015, 10:30:44 AM
Quote from: North Star on May 18, 2015, 10:16:44 AM
So you're saying that Daniel Jones might not be more popular as Berlioz at GMG, Karl? Sounds unlikely. . .

You rightly chide me for too little Berlioz fervor of late . . . .
Title: Re: Popularity of composers based on # of pages on Composer Discussion
Post by: springrite on May 18, 2015, 10:59:25 AM
Quote from: karlhenning on May 18, 2015, 10:30:44 AM
You rightly chide me for too little Berlioz fervor of late . . . .

Well, they all fall too far from Henning to be taken seriously...
Title: Re: Popularity of composers based on # of pages on Composer Discussion
Post by: Florestan on May 18, 2015, 12:35:00 PM
Karlo and Karl --- let this be the one and only statistics lesson which as per MRA¨s thread you badly needed.  ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Popularity of composers based on # of pages on Composer Discussion
Post by: North Star on May 18, 2015, 01:58:23 PM
Quote from: Florestan on May 18, 2015, 12:35:00 PM
Karlo and Karl --- let this be the one and only statistics lesson which as per MRA¨s thread you badly needed.
That statistics only works 98% of the time? Thanks for reminding us.
Title: Re: Popularity of composers based on # of pages on Composer Discussion
Post by: springrite on May 18, 2015, 04:06:26 PM
Quote from: North Star on May 18, 2015, 01:58:23 PM
That statistics only works 98% of the time? Thanks for reminding us.

98.4%. Don't round it off!