Allan Holdsworth is widely regarded by fans and contemporary musicians as one of the 20th century's most prominent guitarists. He is one of a handful of musicians who has consistently proven himself as an innovator in between and within the worlds of rock and jazz music. Many of music's best-known instrumental masters cite Holdsworth as that rare and shining voice—a legendary player who continues to push the outer limits of instrumental technique and the electric guitar's range of tonal and textural possibilities. Particularly during the 90s, Holdsworth has enjoyed the recognition so many musicians strongly feel he deserves, given that he has developed his career outside the big label mainstream and has consistently produced his own recordings with complete creative control since the mid-80s. Despite the uncompromising nature of Holdsworth's predominantly genre-defying solo projects, he's no stranger to all-star jazz festival line-ups or large venue rock audiences. Musician Magazine placed Holdsworth near the top of their "100 greatest guitarists of all time." There's never been a shortage of media attention or acclaim for Holdsworth's accomplishments and originality.
Beyond his ability in improvising mercurial solos and sculpting the guitar's voice into an ever-expanding range of textures and colors, Holdsworth has dedicated his energies to develop many different aspects of guitar technology. This has included new "baritone" variations of the instrument, his own custom 6-string designs (one most recently manufactured by Carvin), the invention of electronic components for the recording studio, and exploring the possibilities of guitar-based synthesizer controllers. Holdworth's ability to improvise over complex and challenging chord voicing's always reveals a deep emotional base and a strong, imaginative personality that is as instantly identifiable as any among Holdsworth's generation of guitar and jazz masters.
http://www.therealallanholdsworth.com/allansbio.htm
https://www.youtube.com/v/QEXKO_N1u4Mhttps://www.youtube.com/v/nchw5246Llghttps://www.youtube.com/v/OeGutZBG9tY
https://www.youtube.com/v/3ZSINN45AnIhttps://www.youtube.com/v/_QZm8CTFCvEhttps://www.youtube.com/v/4mEm_Yp7UJo
https://www.youtube.com/v/HREyuwkmxoghttps://www.youtube.com/v/6a6n84bu_W0https://www.youtube.com/v/v0SmR1RjlAQ
Definitely one of the greatest and most original guitarists ever, altough his success seems confined to the guitar world.
I wonder if he has discovered the guitar with the infinite sustain (I can't remember what model was) that seems something built thinking to him.
Quote from: escher on June 12, 2015, 07:14:36 AMDefinitely one of the greatest and most original guitarists ever, altough his success seems confined to the guitar world.
Allan is a great artist & innovator, explorer of uncharted territories.
His musicality is amazing .. his music is mind numbingly complex but so deep and beautiful.
Sadly, the music field is one where this kind of innovation is grossly misunderstood and the benefits to the general public are negligible in terms of a "hummable" melody.
Quote from: escher on June 12, 2015, 07:14:36 AM
Definitely one of the greatest and most original guitarists ever, altough his success seems confined to the guitar world.
I wonder if he has discovered the guitar with the infinite sustain (I can't remember what model was) that seems something built thinking to him.
I looked into that and now there are pickups (like sustainiac) that allow infinite sustain. I have an ebow which does the same thing, but had no idea there were pickups for this. Definitely will have to get these eventually.
Quote from: Greg on June 12, 2015, 08:05:44 AM
I looked into that and now there are pickups (like sustainiac) that allow infinite sustain. I have an ebow which does the same thing, but had no idea there were pickups for this. Definitely will have to get these eventually.
I have an ebow too, but as you perfectly know it allows to play just one note at once. I knew about those pickups (maybe I'm wrong but I remember Steve Vai using a sustainer fernandes), but I was referring to (I've remembered what it was) the moog guitar
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Srf-wk-jhHo (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Srf-wk-jhHo)
that seems exactly what Holdsworth was looking for when he decided to use the synthaxe (I'm a big fan of synths but I've never liked it).
It has also a breath controller
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hnVMYPy7a8Y (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hnVMYPy7a8Y)
Really, someone has to give one of those instruments to him and say "Hey Allan, take this, look what you can do with it"
https://www.youtube.com/v/8I7NBoP27TQ
https://www.youtube.com/v/X07gDIfR1z0
https://www.pledgemusic.com/projects/allanholdsworth
Not a huge Holdsworth fan as I find his playing a lot of times too emotionally cold and just technical for it's own sake. I have found his best work is outside his own solo albums where he isn't really contributing much in the way of composition. His work with UK and on Jean-Luc Ponty's Enigmatic Ocean remain the highlights of his career for me. He's obviously talented, but he seems more interested in noodling on the guitar than making substantial music IMHO.
*Before James throws a temper tantrum, I have more than credibility to back up my assertions. I have heard probably 90% of his solo albums and have heard him work in countless groups throughout the years.
Quote from: Mirror Image on June 22, 2015, 06:09:39 PMI find his playing a lot of times too emotionally cold and just technical for it's own sake. [...] he seems more interested in noodling on the guitar than making substantial music IMHO.
*Before James throws a temper tantrum, I have more than credibility to back up my assertions. I have heard probably 90% of his solo albums and have heard him work in countless groups throughout the years.
Can most folks hear, appreciate and understand what he's doing? I think not. Most people hear a bunch of notes and write it off, they prefer his guest appearances which at least put him in a context where comprehension is easier, and of course I love his work with Ponty and Williams too but that was over 30 years ago.
Unfortunately, most of the planet reaches for the lowest possible standard, and are intent on applauding and perpetuating mediocrity and baseness. It's a triangle of intellect stemming down from the innovators and thinkers down to the masses. It's true we can't all be experts in all fields but we can raise our level of education so that we can tell the difference between what really is an important contribution and advancement of human endeavor verses regurgitation of cliches and hackneyed drivel in a new wrapper. ... and the pop market is intent on making it's audience younger and younger because kids that age don't have a clue and so the corporate greed feeds itself by polluting precious young minds. Kids don't know any better....but adults should!
I see how you are on this board and IMO I think it is too early for you to 'trust your ears'.
Quote from: James on June 23, 2015, 10:56:32 PM
Can most folks hear, appreciate and understand what he's doing? I think not. Most people hear a bunch of notes and write it off, they prefer his guest appearances which at least put him in a context where comprehension is easier, and of course I love his work with Ponty and Williams too but that was over 30 years ago.
Unfortunately, most of the planet reaches for the lowest possible standard, and are intent on applauding and perpetuating mediocrity and baseness. It's a triangle of intellect stemming down from the innovators and thinkers down to the masses. It's true we can't all be experts in all fields but we can raise our level of education so that we can tell the difference between what really is an important contribution and advancement of human endeavor verses regurgitation of cliches and hackneyed drivel in a new wrapper. ... and the pop market is intent on making it's audience younger and younger because kids that age don't have a clue and so the corporate greed feeds itself by polluting precious young minds. Kids don't know any better....but adults should!
I see how you are on this board and IMO I think it is too early for you to 'trust your ears'.
I don't have to be an intellectual to understand Holdsworth and what he's doing on the guitar. I've been playing the guitar for 20 something years. My point is his music doesn't really invite the listener into his sound-world and I can understand why as he's a niche guitarist. He only appeals to people who like that kind of thing, which is a very small percentage of listeners. I just don't hear any
heart in Holdworth's playing. Shawn Lane, however, is the man. He could rip the guitar apart, but always had an emotional core within his playing. Lane has a certain musicality that Holdsworth doesn't. He certainly was more musical and lyrical.
As for the 'trust your ears' comment, I think you should really face the mirror when you say that, I mean you put Stockhausen (one giant mediocrity) up on a pedestal and you have the audacity to make the claim it's 'too early to trust my ears'. Complete and utter BS, James.
Quote from: Mirror Image on June 25, 2015, 06:49:51 PMI don't have to be an intellectual to understand Holdsworth and what he's doing on the guitar. I've been playing the guitar for 20 something years. My point is his music doesn't really invite the listener into his sound-world and I can understand why as he's a niche guitarist. He only appeals to people who like that kind of thing, which is a very small percentage of listeners. I just don't hear any heart in Holdworth's playing. Shawn Lane, however, is the man. He could rip the guitar apart, but always had an emotional core within his playing. Lane has a certain musicality that Holdsworth doesn't. He certainly was more musical and lyrical.
As for the 'trust your ears' comment, I think you should really face the mirror when you say that, I mean you put Stockhausen (one giant mediocrity) up on a pedestal and you have the audacity to make the claim it's 'too early to trust my ears'. Complete and utter BS, James.
See. Your typical modus operandi - ignorant comments. You are the man when it comes to them.
Holdsworth is a world-class player, and you'll be hard pressed to find a player as innovative, musical and as lyrical as he.
Leagues beyond shredders like Shawn Lane.
Shawn Lane on Allan Holdsworth ..
I saw Allan Holdsworth when I was about 14 in 1978. I never dreamed a guitar could be played like that and that really changed my whole life. If I hadn't had seen Holdsworth I may have just continued to play some blues and rock music and might have even given it up later or something, but when I saw him at 14, that really inspired me to try to play guitar in my own way at another level.
Quote from: James on June 25, 2015, 08:07:49 PM
See. Your typical modus operandi - ignorant comments. You are the man when it comes to them.
Holdsworth is a world-class player, and you'll be hard pressed to find a player as innovative, musical and as lyrical as he.
Leagues beyond shredders like Shawn Lane.
Shawn Lane on Allan Holdsworth ..
I saw Allan Holdsworth when I was about 14 in 1978. I never dreamed a guitar could be played like that and that really changed my whole life. If I hadn't had seen Holdsworth I may have just continued to play some blues and rock music and might have even given it up later or something, but when I saw him at 14, that really inspired me to try to play guitar in my own way at another level.
All of this coming from someone who put himself in exile here on GMG. You're simply a coward and your kind is the very reason
why classical music, or any kind of music for that matter, gets a bad name in the first place. You're a self-serving, conceited, know-it-all (but you actually don't know anything), arrogant prick. I really wished you had left the forum for good, but we all should be so lucky.
P.S. I really don't care what Lane said about Holdsworth or any other guitarist for that matter, Lane was his own man and there was a heartbeat behind his playing unlike Holdsworth's mechanical, lifeless pyrotechnics.
Quote from: Mirror Image on June 25, 2015, 08:32:50 PMAll of this coming from someone who put himself in exile here on GMG. You're simply a coward and your kind is the very reason why classical music, or any kind of music for that matter, gets a bad name in the first place. You're a self-serving, conceited, know-it-all (but you actually don't know anything), arrogant prick. I really wished you had left the forum for good, but we all should be so lucky.
P.S. I really don't care what Lane said about Holdsworth or any other guitarist for that matter, Lane was his own man and there was a heartbeat behind his playing unlike Holdsworth's mechanical, lifeless pyrotechnics.
Blah, blah, blah. YOU dropped into my thread with your typically ignorant comments, not the other way around. So don't be crying when you've been schooled. Man up.
Allan is one of my musical heros...maybe he could be a more prolific composer, but that's not what he's really all about. :D
As Jon Hiseman said, he's at his best when he's playing least.
Look up the first TEMPEST album, the one that starts off with the Gorgon track.
There is also a bootleg live CD of TEMPEST on tour with both Holdsworth and Ollie Halsall (his soon to be replacement) in the band.
Also the Ian Carr album "Belladonna"
and
SOFT MACHINE-Bundles
and finally the first BRUFORD (band) album, "One of a Kind" ...... his playing is sublime here, like on the first Tempest album.
All of these are better than his own solo albums. Of those, the first is the best - "Velvet Darkness".
Quote from: Scion7 on August 31, 2015, 06:11:16 PM
As Jon Hiseman said, he's at his best when he's playing least.
Look up the first TEMPEST album, the one that starts off with the Gorgon track.
There is also a bootleg live CD of TEMPEST on tour with both Holdsworth and Ollie Halsall (his soon to be replacement) in the band.
Also the Ian Carr album "Belladonna"
and
SOFT MACHINE-Bundles
and finally the first BRUFORD (band) album, "One of a Kind" ...... his playing is sublime here, like on the first Tempest album.
All of these are better than his own solo albums. Of those, the first is the best - "Velvet Darkness".
This is utter tosh.
Those albums, where he is a mere sideman don't capture what he is about .. certainly not his own personal harmonic world and musical outlook/logic. Lifetime's Believe It! is the best from the 70s, showcasing his brilliance as an improviser with a voice/personality .. and anyone with ears to hear will know that the solo albums TRULY capture his essence/personality as an artist more than all else AND that he increasingly became a more refined and sophisticated composer/player over-time. Not to mention finding musicians for form bands that better suited his thing.
Sorry, but you are mistaken.
The first TEMPEST album was mainly composed by him, and he's certainly the musical leader.
He's an integral part of the BRUFORD band, which is a GROUP, not a solo album.
I can't believe I left off Tony Williams New Lifetime albums, "Believe It" and "Million Dollar Legs."
Not to mention the first UK album!!!! I'm losin' it.
That's what you get for posting with a headcold. :-[
Anyway, as I said, those are easily his best works, his soloing is precise and dynamic.
Quote from: Scion7 on September 01, 2015, 05:55:22 AM
Sorry, but you are mistaken.
The first TEMPEST album was mainly composed by him, and he's certainly the musical leader.
He's an integral part of the BRUFORD band, which is a GROUP, not a solo album.
I can't believe I left off Tony Williams New Lifetime albums, "Believe It" and "Million Dollar Legs."
Not to mention the first UK album!!!! I'm losin' it.
That's what you get for posting with a headcold. :-[
Anyway, as I said, those are easily his best works, his soloing is precise and dynamic.
I'm not mistaken ..
However you want to slice & dice it Tempest is not a mature work, .. that and Bruford are hardly representative of his thing. Not even close.
Anyone with ears can hear that his vocabulary & abilities as a musician grew tremendously and continued to evolve .. he surrounded himself with better players too.
Quote from: Scion7 on September 01, 2015, 05:55:22 AMThe first TEMPEST album was mainly composed by him, and he's certainly the musical leader.
This is wrong .. he wasn't a core member and 5 of the 8 tracks were co-composed with the 2 core members (Hiseman/Clarke) on a tertiary capacity. I can barely listen to the album myself .. it wasn't till Lifetime (Tony Williams) that his true personality began to emerge in a stronger way (i.e. Fred) .. also better illustrating his jazz roots. Bruford was a step back, and Bill was the principal leader, composer, artist. U.K. (Wenton/Jobson) was also a weaker affair to Lifetime. Allan himself hated his debut recording, it wasn't a proper release. With the exception of Lifetime's Believe It .. it all greatly pales to what was to come, and all of it features very little from Allan as a writer. So yea .. not truly encompassing of his entire vision/voice.
Incorrect - he was an EXTREME core member.
I saw this band live. Allan nodded each time to Jon when he was ready for him to count off the number.
He was the composer of the guitar riffs which made the songs, except for one number by bassist/keyboardist Clarke.
His soloing on this album was concise and direct to the gut. Excellent album in every way.
Bruford was a wonderful, incredible album - Allan was a key component of the band. After he left, there wasn't much interest.
UK's first album was magnificent.
I.O.U. didn't get a proper release on a major label, and I came back to that one after the disappointing ROAD TIME came out - immediately there was a sense of loss in Allan's composing - he still played as great as ever, but those records on down the line were much less interesting.
Quote from: Scion7 on September 01, 2015, 11:54:03 AMIncorrect - he was an EXTREME core member.
Not really .. and he isn't too fond of the material. It was what it was, certainly not representative.
VERY 'really.'
And Holdsworth's opinions of his recordings, while interesting, are not the last word as far as the AUDIENCE is concerned.
Quote from: Scion7 on September 01, 2015, 12:21:49 PMVERY 'really.' And Holdsworth's opinions of his recordings, while interesting, are not the last word as far as the AUDIENCE is concerned.
Nah .. it was Hiseman's baby really .. and most importantly not representative of Allan's true/full vision (the focus of this thread). He hadn't been thru enough yet to get to where he eventually got as a musician, forming his own groups. I'm glad he moved on quickly from Tempest after 1 album .. much, much better things were to come.
Nah. His best work was with the bands - solo, it's too aimless.
Quote from: Scion7 on September 01, 2015, 01:58:04 PM
Nah. His best work was with the bands - solo, it's too aimless.
It's hardly his work with those bands, it's hardly him as a mature musician at all .. and his own personal work, his mature work, full flower .. aimless? So not true. Your ears are underdeveloped.
Quote from: Scion7 on September 01, 2015, 11:54:03 AMI.O.U. didn't get a proper release on a major label, and I came back to that one after the disappointing ROAD TIME came out - immediately there was a sense of loss in Allan's composing - he still played as great as ever, but those records on down the line were much less interesting.
I see you added this later .. Velvet Darkness was released without his consent and that is what I ment by "not proper". Not the case with I.O.U. & Road GAMES EP (not ROAD TIME, though he had issues with this one as it was involved with a major label who were interfering/meddling with his creative control), both have fantastic stuff on them and are much more 'interesting' than a lot of what came before, great compositions, great players, earth-shattering solos .. and are the best portraits of Allan himself at that time, and certainly more-so than anything before .. and many of the compositions from both have remained in his touring 'songbook' as vehicles for group improvisation even today. Both albums are widely regarded classics, and even then .. he really hit his stride afterward and kept getting better and really took things to higher levels with later recordings. So much great stuff.
You're correct, my error - ROAD GAMES. As you can see, I don't play it often enough to remember. :-)
In fact, it's been some 8 years probably since I had it on the turntable.
As far as you other views, nah.
This one is enjoyable
(http://cps-static.rovicorp.com/3/JPG_400/MI0002/005/MI0002005661.jpg?partner=allrovi.com)
Another one I have not played in a while.
You know I realize he is a supreme technician, James -
the issue is the compositions ... and with Tempest, UK, New Lifetime, Bruford, and Jean-Luc he had a better framework to solo in.
When he can condense his ideas into a few burning seconds, it comes off better than what Robert Fripp calls the "idle, dexterous, technical" playing.
The structure of the solo on Bruford-Hell's Bells or Tempest-Brother he was thinking clearly and building up something pretty special - in the manner of a Ritchie Blackmore (not the style, of course) - saying all that was important to say in 30-60 seconds. The speedy "scat" runs in Brother were especially impressive and off the wall.
Also, in the Tempest band he had excellent players around him and a highly literate songwriting - miles away from such crap these days.
That band really made an impression on the audience of the concert I attended in London - but - Allan gets itchy feet and always wants change, to his financial setback, for whatever artistic sastisfaction he gets.
Quote from: Scion7 on September 02, 2015, 07:03:48 AM
You know I realize he is a supreme technician, James -
the issue is the compositions ... and with Tempest, UK, New Lifetime, Bruford, and Jean-Luc he had a better framework to solo in.
When he can condense his ideas into a few burning seconds, it comes off better than what Robert Fripp calls the "idle, dexterous, technical" playing.
The structure of the solo on Bruford-Hell's Bells or Tempest-Brother he was thinking clearly and building up something pretty special - in the manner of a Ritchie Blackmore (not the style, of course) - saying all that was important to say in 30-60 seconds. The speedy "scat" runs in Brother were especially impressive and off the wall.
Also, in the Tempest band he had excellent players around him and a highly literate songwriting - miles away from such crap these days.
That band really made an impression on the audience of the concert I attended in London - but - Allan gets itchy feet and always wants change, to his financial setback, for whatever artistic sastisfaction he gets.
I feel the opposite. I agree that he very often does not have the gift of synthesis (and I REALLY agree), but the most interesting aspect of his playing is his harmonic language and that is expressed at best in his albums. Not all his stuff is successful (actually I find a lot of it boring), but at his best (pieces like Tokyo dream, Shallow sea, City nights, Funnels, Looking glass etc) he's one of the most interesting guitar composers, far more original than most of the bands where he has to play over more conventional stuff.
I would not care too much for his music otherwise, his speed and legatos are phenomenal but we live in a world of shredders and I find most of them terrible. What put him above the vast majority of them is exactly the originality of his harmonic conception and his best tunes.
Quote from: Scion7 on September 02, 2015, 07:03:48 AM
You know I realize he is a supreme technician, James - the issue is the compositions ... and with Tempest, UK, New Lifetime, Bruford, and Jean-Luc he had a better framework to solo in.
He's a great musician. He had a narrower framework to work within in those bands, and the context is easier to grasp .. his own music/vision is actually much more advanced & sophisticated. And there are several great compositions .. more-Allan and much, much more innovative and memorable.
Quote from: escher on September 02, 2015, 08:52:06 AM
I feel the opposite. I agree that he very often does not have the gift of synthesis (and I REALLY agree), but the most interesting aspect of his playing is his harmonic language and that is expressed at best in his albums. Not all his stuff is successful (actually I find a lot of it boring), but at his best (pieces like Tokyo dream, Shallow sea, City nights, Funnels, Looking glass etc) he's one of the most interesting guitar composers, far more original than most of the bands where he has to play over more conventional stuff. I would not care too much for his music if all I would heard was his speed and his legatos, that's impressive but we live in a world of shredders. What put him above the vast majority of them is exactly the originality of his harmonic conception and his best tunes.
There is more to Allan, and what makes him so special than just his deep approach to harmony. And what do you mean he does not have the gift of synthesis? Allan's music is built on his very own logic, the melody chords, the voicings of them, his approach to lines & improvising as a soloist and within his grps, his execution, tone etc .. the way it's built is completely him, his own secret garden and completely unique and not cliché. It's true that he absorbed certain major influences like Debussy & Trane .. but it was never in a mimic fashion he just internalized what he heard. The results of what he does is completely natural, thoughtful and organic.
Quote from: James on September 02, 2015, 09:05:07 AM
There is more to Allan, and what makes him so special than just his deep approach to harmony. And what do you mean he does not have the gift of synthesis? Allan's music is built on his very own logic, the melody chords, the voicings of them, his approach to lines & improvising as a soloist and within his grps, his execution, tone etc .. the way it's built is completely him, his own secret garden and completely unique and not cliché. It's true that he absorbed certain major influences like Debussy & Trane .. but it was never in a mimic fashion he just internalized what he heard. The results of what he does is completely natural, thoughtful and organic.
I'm not saying that he was copying someone. But while I like Holdsworth (and Coltrane, and Davis, and Sun Ra and many other musicians famous for their extremely long improvisations) I'm also a fan of sinthesys and not of extreme indulgence and sometimes I miss the times when jazz musicians had to necessarily say what they have to say in few choruses.
Quote from: escher on September 02, 2015, 09:26:23 AMI'm not saying that he was copying someone. But while I like Holdsworth (and Coltrane, and Davis, and Sun Ra and many other musicians famous for their extremely long improvisations) I'm also a fan of sinthesys and not of extreme indulgence and sometimes I miss the times when jazz musicians had to necessarily say what they have to say in few choruses.
Is English your native language? Perhaps you are using the wrong word because I'm still not getting what you are meaning. Allan is certainly not guilty of self-indulgence as a soloist, live or on recordings. Things are timed & paced just about right. His albums & compositions are carefully crafted .. and the solos are so earth-shattering most of the time. He's one of the most gifted soloists you'll ever hear, and so lyrical.
Quote from: Scion7 on September 01, 2015, 06:01:08 PMAs far as you other views, nah.
What a lazy response. Based on what you have been saying thus far you don't know Allan's music much at all.
Quote from: James on September 02, 2015, 02:28:10 PM
Allan is certainly not guilty of self-indulgence as a soloist, live or on recordings.
Personally I disagree, I'm a big fan of him but for me he's definitely a over-indulgent guitarist.
Quote from: escher on September 02, 2015, 02:35:32 PM
Personally I disagree, I'm a big fan of him but for me he's definitely a over-indulgent guitarist.
Define his over-indulgence then .. because it is simply not so. If he's over-indulgent than so is every other major jazz player, electric or otherwise.
So with all those last posts talking to yourself, did you get it all out? :P ;D :D
(hint: there's a Modify button on here)
Cheers!
Neither of you seem to have really absorbed Allan's music well enough in order to state a truly authoritative viewpoint.
Not sure who "either of you" refers to, son, but I was there at the beginning.
Making yourself the "god of Holdsworth" won't wash.
You've got to learn to deal with people not sharing your opinion better.
Quote from: Scion7 on September 02, 2015, 04:24:29 PMYou've got to learn to deal with people not sharing your opinion better.
I can do that IF they know what they are talking about.
Quote from: James on September 02, 2015, 02:39:37 PM
Define his over-indulgence then .. because it is simply not so. If he's over-indulgent than so is every other major jazz player, electric or otherwise.
In fact A LOT of major jazz players are over-indulgent: Coltrane, Sun ra, late Davis, Anthony Braxton, Cecil Taylor etc. In the case of Holdsworth (who is anyway one of my favorite guitarists) I think (and I've read many times on internet people complaining about this) it's one of the major reasons for his lack of recognition. He's admired and highly respected by other guitar players, but even for most jazz fans it's like he doesn't exist.
Quote from: escher on September 03, 2015, 05:14:24 AM
In fact A LOT of major jazz players are over-indulgent: Coltrane, Sun ra, late Davis, Anthony Braxton, Cecil Taylor etc. In the case of Holdsworth (who is anyway one of my favorite guitarists) I think (and I've read many times on internet people complaining about this) it's one of the major reasons for his lack of recognition. He's admired and highly respected by other guitar players, but even for most jazz fans it's like he doesn't exist.
I'm glad you like his music .. but you're making things up now. Holdsworth is not an over-indulgent player, certainly less so than all of those players you just mentioned. He doesn't solo on a tune for days, live or on recordings, he knows when to end. And he is known within jazz circles well enough. He's certainly made his mark, especially as a solo artist within the last 30+ years.
Quote from: James on September 03, 2015, 03:19:04 AM
. . . blah blah . . . .
So, should I humor your incredible arrogance, or does your shrink prefer you work out your frustratons via multiple-post self-replying rants? You're being extremely silly. ::)
Quote from: Scion7 on September 03, 2015, 11:06:51 AMSo, should I humor your incredible arrogance ..
I'm sure this is all you can do. It still won't cover up the fact that you know little of Allan's music.
Yeah, especially since I saw him in concert several times (both in England and here in America), one of which was his first "band," and have been listening to him since the Gordon Beck album. You're making yourself look more and more foolish, James - because someone disagrees with you, you start to come unglued. Now, they tell me you got "blocked" from here before - whatever - but this is looking more and more like the musings of a crank.
You need to look in the mirror and say, "people with more knowledge or the same knowledge as me of a musician may disagree with me, and my word is not law" - it's excellent therapy.
Cheers!
Quote from: Scion7 on September 03, 2015, 02:07:55 PM
Yeah, especially since I saw him in concert several times, one of which was his first "band," and have been listening to him since the Gordon Beck album.
You saying you have seen him several times in concert etc. means absolutely nothing. I could care less. I've read what you said earlier and you couldn't me more wrong. You simply don't seem to understand or know his own music .. you just don't hear it. You prefer his guest appearances which put him into a context that is much easier to comprehend (which is fine), but that isn't what he's all about, it's barely a glimpse.
If you can "care less," that means you care. ;)
COULDN'T care less, James my lad, is what you meant.
The point still stands - you are entitled to your opinion, and you can go toe-to-toe with anyone on here you like, but when you claim you are some sort of final authority on the matter, people will look at you like the old lady that lives in Apt. 3-B with 25 cats . . .
Quote from: Scion7 on September 03, 2015, 02:32:03 PMThe point still stands - you are entitled to your opinion, and you can go toe-to-toe with anyone on here you like, but when you claim you are some sort of final authority on the matter, people will look at you like the old lady that lives in Apt. 3-B with 25 cats . . .
These aren't opinions though, I have been stating widely known facts, the reality. Perhaps one day you'll come around and understand and hear what I have been saying, but I doubt it.
ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha
Your personal likes and dislikes are not "widely known facts" - they are just your personal tastes - you're balmy, mate.
Quote from: Scion7 on September 03, 2015, 04:41:43 PM
ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha
Your personal likes and dislikes are not "widely known facts" - they are just your personal tastes - you're balmy, mate.
I haven't stated personal likes or dislikes though.
https://www.youtube.com/v/f2YicumsjAo
https://www.youtube.com/v/k8t45eCC0zM
https://www.youtube.com/v/F_rLYsuDEjg
https://www.youtube.com/v/IyGV-fHRYxMhttps://www.youtube.com/v/4Rj2eEsruh8
https://www.youtube.com/v/qSRzaubL3V4
https://www.youtube.com/v/-JYUxacLUzc
.. this is fine, wish they have the studio album version on YT though, it's very beautiful with
a wonderful & rare acoustic-guitar solo from Allan ..
https://www.youtube.com/v/zLukR6J-06o
From 1986 Guitar Player Magazine, Steve Vai's transcription of the solo ..
http://www.guitarmasterclass.net/wiki/images/a/ab/Hindmost1.jpg
http://www.guitarmasterclass.net/wiki/images/f/fd/Hindmost2.jpg
http://www.guitarmasterclass.net/wiki/images/2/23/Hindmost3.jpg
[... ... ...]
"I put Holdsworth up there with Paganini and Liszt. Terrifying." - David Lindley
"Holdsworth is the best in my book. He's fantastic. I love him."; "Holdsworth is so damned good that I can't understand what he's doing. I've got to do this [does two-hand tapping], whereas he'll do it with one hand." - Edward Van Halen
"One of the most interesting guys on guitar on the planet is Allan Holdsworth. I really respect his playing." - Frank Zappa
"When I hear Allan playing the guitar-besides being emotionally swept away by his use of melodic color--most of the time, I am utterly stunned and confused by what I am hearing. His chops and inner ear completely defy my own inner musical ear and reasoning, and I'm left in a blissful state of humility and surrender." - Steve Vai
"His influence is just that he's such a drastic unyielding individual. You know, 'I'm going to do my thing and I'm going to do it the best I can." - Steve Morse
"Allan Holdsworth also has a strong style. A long time ago, Jens took me to see him in a small club in New York. I had to take my hat off to him." - Yngwie Malmsteen
"I saw Allan play last night at the Baked Potato and I must say that, without a doubt, he is truly The Grand Master..." - Frank Gambale
"I've known Allan and his music for 30 years now, and after all this time, he still amazes me. His concept is still advancing with his playing and his technical prowess--which is phenomenal, and is in complete harmony with his very advanced musical direction. I saw him about 14 years ago, and, after the concert, I said to him, "If I knew what you were doing, I'd steal everything, but I don't know what you are doing!" - John McLaughlin
"I totally agree that Allan is one of the greatest guitarists ever - his work on the mid-70's Tony Williams records was revolutionary and changed everything for guitarists everywhere. It is a real mystery to me why he is not a household name. but it really doesn't matter, his contribution is large and i think all musicians know it." - Pat Metheny
"Hearing Allan's guitar playing for the first time was a cathartic experience. His guitar sang, it pushed musical boundaries, and it rocked. His brilliant approach to harmony is completely original, beautiful, and spellbinding. His technique and improvisational skills make him a true guitar god--the jaw-dropping kind that influences many a player in all styles of music. To witness him playing with Tony Williams' band--a Gibson SG around his neck, Small Stone Phaser, and Marshall stack in tow--was something I'll never forget. He ripped a hole in the guitarist's space-time continuum that night, and we've never been the same."; "You know, I should say at the beginning, a big difference between me and Allan is that I built on stuff that Allan pioneered, and in a small way (chuckles) I tried to assimilate a lot of what he did on the guitar technically. So it's very different. His musicianship was so far ahead of mine when I was starting out, looking at books and picking out scales and stuff; Allan was in a stage where he was constantly reinventing guitar, and I was a fan in the audience, you know what I mean? So I'd have to say in all honesty, I've taken from Allan Holdsworth, and tried to figure out, "How can I use what this guy has done to further what I'm trying to say?" - Joe Satriani
Allan plays legato parts like a violinist. His right hand might as well be a bow, because his left hand is like Paganini's. You can call his playing whatever you want to, but it will still fry your brain if you try to figure it out. John McLaughlin, Michael Stern, John Scofield--all of us just scratch our heads and go, "Damn!" - Carlos Santana
"I believe Holdsworth is incredibly important to the language of jazz guitar. He's overlooked because stylistically he's in the fusion camp very solidly, but if you get beyond that and you listen to the actual content of his playing and how he's relating to harmony and lines, you'll discover a guitarist that is virtually unsurpassed in terms of harmonic and linear sophistication, which is totally applicable to every modern jazz guitarist. Furthermore, I think that Allan Holdsworth and John Coltrane have a lot in common in terms of their linear conceptions. They're obviously very, very different and have qualities that place them in totally different zones, but I see a connection between the language that Coltrane used and the technique that Allan Holdsworth has developed. I'm heavily influenced and inspired by Coltrane and the language that he used, and Holdsworth is definitely a touchstone for how to do that on the guitar." - Kurt Rosenwinkel
Allan really changed guitar playing. The legato techniques and "sheets of sound" approach influenced not only jazz guitarists, but also a whole generation of metal players. And aside from all the technical stuff, he's a master jazz guitarist. Check out his version of "How Deep Is the Ocean." - John Scofield
"Allan's beautiful and unique chord voicings have always had an impact on me. His approach to guitar is one of a kind. He pushes the limits of the boundaries of electric guitar, and his lead phrasing would make Charlie Parker smile. His playing is essential listening for any guitarist, of any style, so they can see that the only limits we have are the ones we put on ourselves." - Eric Johnson
"Only the elite musician wishes not to imitate. Originality--and finding your own voice--are the only beacons the elite musician follows. Allan is one of those musicians." - Jeff Berlin
"Allan's prodigious technique and soaring, melodic fluidity are inspiring and daunting. That tone! The amazing accuracy of his pull-offs! That limpid wang bar! Like other giants such as Jimi Hendrix or Jeff Beck, he spawned generations of imitators who, in a way, threaten to make one forget how great the original master is. Don't succumb to this! None of them can touch the man himself." - Nels Cline
Allan wanted to sound like John Coltrane. Problem was he's playing guitar, not saxophone, so he had to figure out a way to get a similar "sheets of sound" equivalent on guitar. The scales and intervals he chose were also all unusual, and he didn't become just one of the great scalar improvisers overnight. He worked like a dog on Nicolas Slonimsky's Thesaurus of Scales and Melodic Patterns. Then, when he'd run out of notes he'd reach for the whammy bar and send shivers down your spine. - Bill Bruford
https://www.youtube.com/v/4wYJQ_42Tuchttps://www.youtube.com/v/RfHJYBBZ7zI
https://www.youtube.com/v/xHFglLKMVpg
https://www.youtube.com/v/VvsxBny9JXAhttps://www.youtube.com/v/GUf65kbB3Ks
https://www.youtube.com/v/5BOkgNkkUEE
https://www.youtube.com/v/rjGOPQvWXw4https://www.youtube.com/v/K1v4eMacw14
https://www.youtube.com/v/Jg6fvL_B5DI
Beginning with his 1982 release, I.O.U. , Holdsworth introduced an otherworldly chordal style that relied on tightly- clustered intervals and expansive voicings that was previously unheard of. His instructional book, Reaching for the Uncommon Chord, is essential food for any guitarist looking to move beyond the norm.
[asin]0634070029[/asin]
So I had a very long dream last night that I discovered Allan Holdsworth was 8'9". That would make him the third tallest person in recorded history.
I looked up his actual height and there's no info...
My favorite "Holdsworth."
https://www.youtube.com/v/f_zUweqyDZ4
>:D
Plenty of Holdsworth that I've enjoyed, not much that I remember until I listen to it enough times.
Tokyo Dream is always some great stuff. 8)
https://www.youtube.com/v/j9xOomYyLI8
Exploring some Holdsworth. Just downloaded Metal Fatigue.
Quote from: Henk on October 26, 2015, 12:09:56 PM
Exploring some Holdsworth.
Try to find the first TEMPEST album (the one with
Gorgon, etc, on it) - the quintessential Holdsworth record. Addtionally, the first U.K. album and BRUFORD's 'One of a Kind.'
Quote from: Henk on October 26, 2015, 12:09:56 PM
Exploring some Holdsworth. Just downloaded Metal Fatigue.
That album has some of his best .. i.e. (Devil Take the Hindmost, Home), and feat. great playing by all involved.
Check out Tony William's Believe It! (the best of the early pre-solo career feat. his own composition Fred, that he stretches out on brilliantly .. and something that he still plays live to this day! .. it offers a true precursor into what he is about musically); all of the solo albums with the exception of Velvet Darkness (not intended for release, he wish he hadn't) are worth having to get a complete view at his advanced conception, true voice, evolution .. they all feature great playing & compositions, earth-shattering solos .. if that is too daunting (or pricey) then get your feet wet with the excellent Against the Clock - The Best of Allan Holdsworth (a compilation put together & mixed by Allan himself .. ) ..
The early rock 'n' roll effort like Tempest, or even U.K. & Bruford are completely underwhelming in comparison to his more electric jazz oriented material, it's because he's put into an easier context (much of which, isn't him) .. they don't even begin to scratch the surface of what Allan's own musical vision is about which he continued to grow, evolve and refine. One must dig into the solo career in order to really get to know him as an artist, it's this truly unique body of work .. that made him world famous within the electric jazz & electric guitar communities more than all else. So much good & inspirational stuff there, even genius.
Henk, you know that's utter rubbish. :-) All his pre-solo stuff is better than the solo albums.
Quote from: Scion7 on November 28, 2015, 05:10:03 PM
Henk, you know that's utter rubbish. :-) All his pre-solo stuff is better than the solo albums.
I've said it before and I'll say it again - you simply don't know Allan then, you're missing out. For Allan's music (aka, the solo stuff) your ears aren't up to the task. The fact that you called his solo music 'aimless' earlier, says it all really. You couldn't be more wrong.
You're entitled to your OPINION, because that's all it is.
I was there, man.
Dig it.
Quote from: Scion7 on November 29, 2015, 04:10:31 AM
I was there, man.
Dig it.
I do dig Allan's music, so much more than you realize. You might have attended a few shows back in the day but obviously Allan moved on and left people like you in the dust. Again, to call his own music 'aimless', says it all. You just don't hear it and probably never will. And that's fine, many people don't.
Uh-huh.
As we've tried to get across to you before, ye must a-learn to livith in a wide world that doesn't adhere to thy values.
Keep this up and sooner or later that brain aneurism that's been on the brink - teetering ever so keenly on the edge - will hit you and down you'll go a-tumblin'.
Quote from: Scion7 on November 29, 2015, 05:07:12 AM
Uh-huh.
I take it (your reply), because others out there don't hear it .. that this is you basically accepting the fact that you don't hear it and never will.
I take it that you don't get it that your opinion is only your opinion and not "THE TRUTH" - (tick-tick-tick - that's that aneurism coming closer).
Quote from: Scion7 on November 29, 2015, 06:34:54 AM
I take it that you don't get it that your opinion is only your opinion and not "THE TRUTH" - (tick-tick-tick - that's that aneurism coming closer).
No aneurism pal, I'm absolutely confident in what I'm saying and hearing, it is fairly obvious & widely known what I have been saying too .. I'm just trying to make you understand, but you're set in your ways and pigheaded about it. It's a matter of listening & learning. What I have been stating is the truth, it holds up .. you're just uninformed and haven't dug deep enough to understand. And you don't have to take my word for it - you can always hunt down or ask Allan himself which is more representative & complete of his musical vision. He'll give you the straight answer. Just because you hear it as 'aimless' doesn't mean that is so, or that what I'm saying which is contrary to your hollow conjecture is a mere opinion. It's not, do your homework.
Pigheaded because I totally disagree with you? HA HA HA HA HA.
I've said it before, and I 'll say it again - you're balmey, mate!
Quote from: Scion7 on November 30, 2015, 03:00:10 AM
Pigheaded because I totally disagree with you? HA HA HA HA HA.
Nah, pigheaded because you're unwilling to get to know Allan's own music. I have nothing to do with it, just a messenger.
Quote from: James on December 06, 2015, 05:29:16 AM
Nah, pigheaded because you're unwilling to get to know Allan's own music. I have nothing to do with it, just a messenger.
Yeah and you know
everything don't you, James? You're the great and powerful Oz! ::)
" I AM JAMES - KNEEL BEFORE ME! "
(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-Qt4NtJWEy3Q/T7Fo6M31IGI/AAAAAAAAAJc/P3xH9DHTmCI/s1600/great-powerful-oz.jpg)
Quote from: Scion7 on December 06, 2015, 10:31:59 AM
" I AM JAMES - KNEEL BEFORE ME! "
(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-Qt4NtJWEy3Q/T7Fo6M31IGI/AAAAAAAAAJc/P3xH9DHTmCI/s1600/great-powerful-oz.jpg)
"I....ahhh....tremble in your presence, Master Oz."(http://thumbs.dreamstime.com/x/shocked-fearful-man-23408442.jpg)