Sauguet: Expiatoire, Symphony 1
Egge: Symphony 1
Kinsella: Symphony 7
Rootham: Symphony 1
Stanley Bate: Symphony 3
Hurum:Symphony
These are all 20th Century but you can select from any century as I am feeling generous today. 8)
18th century
Joseph Martin Kraus c# minor
Joh. Chr. Bach g minor op.6,6
CPE Bach C major Wq 182,3 (Hamburg string symphonies)
Michael Haydn D major Perger 11
F.X. Richter e minor
Vanhal g minor
Quote from: Jo498 on June 13, 2015, 12:41:19 AM
18th century
Joseph Martin Kraus c# minor
Joh. Chr. Bach g minor op.6,6
CPE Bach C major Wq 182,3 (Hamburg string symphonies)
Michael Haydn D major Perger 11
F.X. Richter e minor
Vanhal g minor
Don't know these at all so thank you very much for alerting me to them. Which would be your first choice?
Most interesting for me are Kraus and especially CPE Bach
Kraus: There is a good series on Naxos (modern chamber orchestra) or Concerto Köln on capriccio. Kraus was called the Swedish Mozart (which is problematic because he was born in Germany and did not come to Sweden before his early 20s) as he shares Mozart's birth year (died about a year later in 1792). Stylistically he is not that close to Mozart; for me the closest description is that he wrote symphonies in a similar style to Gluck's operas.
CPE Bach: There are several complete recordings of those 6 string symphonies (e.g. Pinnock DG/Archiv), also a mixed recital with the Freiburger orchestra (3 symphonies and 2 concerti) on harmonia mundi. We have about 15 symphonies by CPE Bach but the most important ones are this set of 6 string symphonies and another set of 4 with strings and winds (Wq 183). They are all worth checking out. Written in an impulsive and "quirky" style with abrupt changes in mood he is rather different from almost everyone else ;)
Franz Xaver Richter is also interesting; there are two very good discs on Naxos with 6 symphonies each. He is counted with the "Mannheim school" but in fact he is rather conservative in many respects with quite a bit of fugal writing, often not all that "gallant", in any case a quite enticing "mix" between late baroque and (pre)classical.
(William Boyce would also have been a candidate from about the same historical period)
The youngest Bach son, Johann Christian, is closest in style to (early) Mozart (they were friends) and can seem often like rather shallow rococo, but the piece I mentioned is not at all typical, fairly taut and serious. It can be found on several recital discs (there is a good one on capriccio dedicated to Bach sons)
The younger Haydn and Vanhal are closest stylistically to well known pieces by Joseph Haydn and Mozart. So while (like Rosetti or Kozeluch and others) they are worth sampling if one likes that style to me they do not appear as original as e.g. Kraus or as interesting as the older Richter and CPE Bach.
Can I count the Mendelssohn string symphonies?
Quote from: EigenUser on June 13, 2015, 02:07:57 AM
Can I count the Mendelssohn string symphonies?
Not if you know them.
Sibelius 8th
Quote from: Jo498 on June 13, 2015, 01:35:55 AM
Most interesting for me are Kraus and especially CPE Bach
Kraus: There is a good series on Naxos (modern chamber orchestra) or Concerto Köln on capriccio. Kraus was called the Swedish Mozart (which is problematic because he was born in Germany and did not come to Sweden before his early 20s) as he shares Mozart's birth year (died about a year later in 1792). Stylistically he is not that close to Mozart; for me the closest description is that he wrote symphonies in a similar style to Gluck's operas.
CPE Bach: There are several of those 6 string symphonies (e.g. Pinnock DG/Archiv), also a mixed recital with the Freiburger (3 symphonies and 2 concerti) on harmonia mundi. We have about 15 symphonies by CPE Bach but the most important ones are this set of 6 string symphonies and another set of 4 with strings and winds (Wq 183). They are all worth checking out. Written in an impulsive and "quirky" style with abrupt changes in mood he is rather different from almost everyone else ;)
Franz Xaver Richter is also interesting; there are two very good discs on Naxos with 6 symphonies each. He is counted with the "Mannheim school" but in fact he is rather conservative in many respects with quite a bit of fugal writing, often not all that "gallant", in any case a quite enticing "mix" between late baroque and (pre)classical.
(William Boyce would also have been a candidate from about the same historical period)
The youngest Bach son, Johann Christian, is closest in style to (early) Mozart (they were friends) and can seem often like rather shallow rococo, but the piece I mentioned is not at all typical, fairly taut and serious. It can be found on several recital discs (there is a good one on capriccio dedicated to Bach sons)
The younger Haydn and Vanhal are closest stylistically to well known pieces by Joseph Haydn and Mozart. So while (like Rosetti or Kozeluch and others) they are worth sampling if one likes that style to me they do not appear as original as e.g. Kraus or as interesting as the older Richter and CPE Bach.
Many thanks. :)
Quote from: EigenUser on June 13, 2015, 02:07:57 AM
Can I count the Mendelssohn string symphonies?
As there are only 12 or 13 of them, I'd guess that as an engineering student you'd manage to count that far... ;)
I think they qualify as comparably "unknown" although may be not quite as obscure as vandermolen's list (most names of which I have never seen before).
How can unknown symphonies be favourite? I mean, I have to know them first to know whether I like them or not... >:D
The 6 chamber symphonies of Milhaud. Nobody knows them except me, right?
Havergal Brian Symphony No.4 "Das Siegeslied" (...not unknown but almost no one, including many Brianites, listens to it.)
Wetz Symphony No.1 C minor
Wetz Symphony No.2
Wetz Symphony No.3 B flat
Antheil Symphony No.1 "Zingareska"
Sarge
Quote from: Sergeant Rock on June 13, 2015, 06:11:34 AM
Havergal Brian Symphony No.4 "Das Siegeslied" (...not unknown but almost no one, including many Brianites, listens to it.)
Wetz Symphony No.1 C minor
Wetz Symphony No.2
Wetz Symphony No.3 B flat
Antheil Symphony No.1 "Zingareska"
Sarge
Thanks Sarge. I'm sure I have some Wetz in my collection so must listen again, also to Antheil; I know 3 and 4 which I like very much.
Quote from: EigenUser on June 13, 2015, 02:07:57 AM
Can I count the Mendelssohn string symphonies?
You're an engineer!
Well, if you must, use your toes.
A computer scientist might manage 1023 only with fingers.
Considering that Havergal Brian, Stanley Bate, Arnold Cooke, Matthijs Vermeulen or even the indominatable Alf Hurum are rather well-known in these pages, :) I opt for:
Charles Tournemire, Symphony no. 6 'Bible' (1918)
Kaljo Raid, Symphony No. 1 (1944)
Herman D. Koppel, Symphony No. 3 (1945)
Ruth Gipps, Symphony No. 2 (1945)
Ulvi Cemâl Erkin, Symphony No. 2 (1958)
John Kinsella, Symphony No. 7 (1999)
I know four of those.....
Quote from: The new erato on June 13, 2015, 11:34:48 AMI know four of those.....
Which four? And what are your choices?
Erkin and Tournemire is unknown. My two faves are the two Ks.
Quote from: Christo on June 13, 2015, 09:00:15 AM
Considering that Havergal Brian, Stanley Bate, Arnold Cooke, Matthijs Vermeulen or even the indominatable Alf Hurum are rather well-known in these pages, :) I opt for:
Charles Tournemire, Symphony no. 6 'Bible' (1918)
Kaljo Raid, Symphony No. 1 (1944)
Herman D. Koppel, Symphony No. 3 (1945)
Ruth Gipps, Symphony No. 2 (1945)
Ulvi Cemâl Erkin, Symphony No. 2 (1958)
John Kinsella, Symphony No. 7 (1999)
This could have been my choice too although I don't know the Erkin. The Raid is, I agree, one of the great unknown symphonies, in the spirit of Tubin and Lilburn (Symphony 1) I think. Must listen to the Koppel again which I remember enjoying enormously. I also love that Gipps symphony although I think that No.4 is her masterpiece. Sadly there is no commercial CD available.
Today's list:
Damase: Symphony (eloquent, civilised and moving at the end)
Blomdahl: Symphony 1 (I prefer it to the better known No.3 'Facetter')
Clifford: Symphony 1940 (epic wartime defiance - written during 'The Blitz' on London)
Bainton: Symphony 3 (moving - coming to terms with the death of his wife)
Armstrong Gibbs: Symphony 3 'Westmorland' (a poignant memorial to his son killed in the Second World War)
Eshpai: Symphony 5 (powerful, soviet-era and war-related)
Quote from: vandermolen on June 14, 2015, 12:52:46 AMToday's list:
Damase: Symphony (eloquent, civilised and moving at the end)
Blomdahl: Symphony 1 (I prefer it to the better known No.3 'Facetter')
Clifford: Symphony 1940 (epic wartime defiance - written during 'The Blitz' on London)
Bainton: Symphony 3 (moving - coming to terms with the death of his wife)
Armstrong Gibbs: Symphony 3 'Westmorland' (a poignant memorial to his son killed in the Second World War)
Eshpai: Symphony 5 (powerful, soviet-era and war-related)
This, in turn, could have been my list, though I don't know Damase. ;) You're right: the Fourth is Ruth Gipps' masterpiece, but we only have a radio recording. Yet the Second has a deeply moving 'intimate' side to it that makes it even more special.
When does unknown is actually unknown?
I had never heard of Ruth Gipps : she loves her RVW, doesn't she? I have some trouble with all these post-war british symphonies. They're good, but they all sound a little bit the same. Same thing with a lot of soviets composers.
Quote from: Christo on June 13, 2015, 09:00:15 AM
Charles Tournemire, Symphony no. 6 'Bible' (1918)
Where did you get that subtitle ? It's the only Tournemire symphony that actually doesn't have a subtitle.
Quote from: Christo on June 14, 2015, 01:42:25 AM
This, in turn, could have been my list, though I don't know Damase. ;) You're right: the Fourth is Ruth Gipps' masterpiece, but we only have a radio recording. Yet the Second has a deeply moving 'intimate' side to it that makes it even more special.
Yes, I know what you mean about the moving intimate side of Symphony 2. Something to do with reunion after the war if I remember correctly.
Quote from: Mr Bloom on June 14, 2015, 07:00:00 AMWhere did you get that subtitle ? It's the only Tournemire symphony that actually doesn't have a subtitle.
Two Wikipedia entries, the Dutch and the Italian, have it. And also my New Grove's Dictionary of Music. Could be a mistake: Tournemire drew the texts from the Bible, so maybe some-one mistook that fact ('on Biblical texts') for its title? Otherwise: he could certainly have named it this way. Perhaps you can help us out?
See: https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Tournemire + https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Tournemire#Symfonie.C3.ABn
The official french catalog lists the symphonies as followed :
Symphonie "Romantique"
IIe Symphonie "Ouessant"
"Moscou (1913)"
"Pages symphoniques"
Ve Symphonie (ou "de la Montagne")
VIe Symphonie
VIIe Symphonie "Les Danses de la Vie"
VIIIe Symphonie "La Symphonie du Triomphe de la Mort"
Symphonies 3 and 4 are not listed as numbered symphonies, but they were considered as such by Tournemire.
The original manuscript for the sixth symphony doesn't seem to have any subtitle. The subtitle "Bible" is most likely not Tournemire's subtitle.
Quote from: vandermolen on June 12, 2015, 10:32:22 PMSauguet: Expiatoire, Symphony 1
Egge: Symphony 1
Kinsella: Symphony 7
Rootham: Symphony 1
Stanley Bate: Symphony 3
Hurum:Symphony
These are all 20th Century but you can select from any century as I am feeling generous today. 8)
NEW LIST (8 years later)
Gipps: Symphony 4
L. Berkeley: Symphony 1
Eshpai: Symphony 5
Rootham: Symphony 2
Stanley Bate: Symphony 4
Daniel Jones: Symphony 4 'In Memory of Dylan Thomas'
Not 6, but 10 instead:
Finn Mortensen: Symphony, op. 5 (the greatest Norwegian symphony IMO)
Zygmunt Noskowski: Symphony No. 3 'From Spring to Spring'
August de Boeck: Symphony in G major
Paul Graener: Symphony in D minor 'Schmied Schmerz'
Halvor Haug: Symphony No. 2
Frederic Cliffe: Symphony No. 1
Torbjörn Lundquist: Symphony No. 4 'Sinfonia ecologica'
Stjepan Sulek: Symphony No. 6
Jan Hanus: Symphony No. 3
Czeslaw Marek: Sinfonia, op. 28
Quote from: Løvfald on February 27, 2023, 02:16:09 PMNot 6, but 10 instead:
Finn Mortensen: Symphony, op. 5 (the greatest Norwegian symphony IMO)
Zygmunt Noskowski: Symphony No. 3 'From Spring to Spring'
August de Boeck: Symphony in G major
Paul Graener: Symphony in D minor 'Schmied Schmerz'
Halvor Haug: Symphony No. 2
Frederic Cliffe: Symphony No. 1
Torbjörn Lundquist: Symphony No. 4 'Sinfonia ecologica'
Stjepan Sulek: Symphony No. 6
Jan Hanus: Symphony No. 3
Czeslaw Marek: Sinfonia, op. 28
Nice list Cesar - definitely agree about the Mortensen.
I'd like to add Grace Williams's 2nd Symphony to my own list.
Quote from: vandermolen on February 28, 2023, 11:22:36 AMNice list Cesar - definitely agree about the Mortensen.
I'd like to add Grace Williams's 2nd Symphony to my own list.
I have good memories of the Williams, a very fine symphony.
Quote from: Løvfald on February 27, 2023, 02:16:09 PMNot 6, but 10 instead:
Finn Mortensen: Symphony, op. 5 (the greatest Norwegian symphony IMO)
Zygmunt Noskowski: Symphony No. 3 'From Spring to Spring'
August de Boeck: Symphony in G major
Paul Graener: Symphony in D minor 'Schmied Schmerz'
Halvor Haug: Symphony No. 2
Frederic Cliffe: Symphony No. 1
Torbjörn Lundquist: Symphony No. 4 'Sinfonia ecologica'
Stjepan Sulek: Symphony No. 6
Jan Hanus: Symphony No. 3
Czeslaw Marek: Sinfonia, op. 28
Great list, Cesar - I'll follow your lead! ;)
Eyvind Alnaes: Symphony no. 1 in C minor
Volkmar Andreae: Symphony in C major
Jean-Michel Damase: Symphonie
Jesús Guridi: Sinfonia pirenaica
Viktor Kalabis: Symphony no. 2 Sinfonia pacis
Aarre Merikanto: Symphony no. 2 in A major War Symphony
Ludolf Nielsen: Symphony no. 3 in C major
Nikolai Peiko: Symphony no. 4 in B minor
Yngve Sköld: Symphony no. 2
Robert Ward: Symphony no. 2
Quote from: kyjo on March 03, 2023, 05:57:34 PMGreat list, Cesar - I'll follow your lead! ;)
Eyvind Alnaes: Symphony no. 1 in C minor
Volkmar Andreae: Symphony in C major
Jean-Michel Damase: Symphonie
Jesús Guridi: Sinfonia pirenaica
Viktor Kalabis: Symphony no. 2 Sinfonia pacis
Aarre Merikanto: Symphony no. 2 in A major War Symphony
Ludolf Nielsen: Symphony no. 3 in C major
Nikolai Peiko: Symphony no. 4 in B minor
Yngve Sköld: Symphony no. 2
Robert Ward: Symphony no. 2
Yes Yes Yes for Kalabis and Damase :)
Quote from: vandermolen on March 04, 2023, 02:01:16 PMYes Yes Yes for Kalabis and Damase :)
I knew you'd second those choices, Jeffrey! ;) I've sampled a few other works by Kalabis (such as his 4th Symphony), and have mostly found them disappointingly "arid" compared to the wonderfully gripping and humane 2nd Symphony. I do recall his Harpsichord Concerto being rather cool, though.
Quote from: kyjo on March 05, 2023, 07:50:57 AMI knew you'd second those choices, Jeffrey! ;) I've sampled a few other works by Kalabis (such as his 4th Symphony), and have mostly found them disappointingly "arid" compared to the wonderfully gripping and humane 2nd Symphony. I do recall his Harpsichord Concerto being rather cool, though.
Also the Merikanto, Guridi, Skold and Ward Kyle - all great choices.
I have the Kalabis symphonies box set but it's No.2 that stands out for me. I also like the harpsichord concerto.
I'm alive to the fact that many GMG'ers can easily "out-obscure" me, so I list these with an "if these even count as unknown" disclaimer.
Antheil, Jazz Symphony.
Louis Andriessen, Symphony for Open Strings.
Hovhaness, Symphony for Metal Orchestra.
Malipiero, Sinfonia in uno tempo.
Arnold Rosner, Symphony № 5 (Missa sine cantoribus)
Stefan Wolpe, Symphony
Quote from: vandermolen on March 05, 2023, 01:40:52 PMAlso the Merikanto, Guridi, Skold and Ward Kyle - all great choices.
I have the Kalabis symphonies box set but it's No.2 that stands out for me. I also like the harpsichord concerto.
Do you know Andreae's Symphony in C major and Ludolf Nielsen's 3rd Symphony, Jeffrey? I suspect you'd enjoy them both very much. ;)
Quote from: Karl Tirebiter Henning on March 05, 2023, 03:45:51 PMI'm alive to the fact that many GMG'ers can easily "out-obscure" me, so I list these with an "if these even count as unknown" disclaimer.
Antheil, Jazz Symphony.
Louis Andriessen, Symphony for Open Strings.
Hovhaness, Symphony for Metal Orchestra.
Malipiero, Sinfonia in uno tempo.
Arnold Rosner, Symphony № 5 (Missa sine cantoribus)
Stefan Wolpe, Symphony
Well, they're all unknown to me except for the Antheil! I really ought to listen to the Rosner, especially.
Quote from: kyjo on March 06, 2023, 03:13:05 PMDo you know Andreae's Symphony in C major and Ludolf Nielsen's 3rd Symphony, Jeffrey? I suspect you'd enjoy them both very much. ;)
Thanks Kyle - I think that I do but need to fish them out :)
I have to try every symphony from this thread!
Here are two absolute masterpieces of Post-Sibelius Finnish music that should be more widely known:
Leevi Madetoja - Symphony 3
Joonas Kokkonen - Symphony 4
Quote from: Skogwald on March 09, 2023, 05:42:10 AMI have to try every symphony from this thread!
Here are two absolute masterpieces of Post-Sibelius Finnish music that should be more widely known:
Leevi Madetoja - Symphony 3
Joonas Kokkonen - Symphony 4
Agreed that the Kokkonen is a splendid piece - even though I haven't listened to it for years, the though of the ending of the scherzo still makes the hair stand on end. So, based on your recommendation, I must hear the Madetoja.
(And I hope your Haydn piano trios are the CPO series by the Trio 1790 - excellent.)
Quote from: DaveF on March 09, 2023, 05:55:34 AM(And I hope your Haydn piano trios are the CPO series by the Trio 1790 - excellent.)
I mainly listen to Van Swieten Trio but I agree that Trio 1790 are also brilliant!
Quote from: Karl Tirebiter Henning on March 05, 2023, 03:45:51 PMI'm alive to the fact that many GMG'ers can easily "out-obscure" me, so I list these with an "if these even count as unknown" disclaimer.
Antheil, Jazz Symphony.
Louis Andriessen, Symphony for Open Strings.
Hovhaness, Symphony for Metal Orchestra.
Malipiero, Sinfonia in uno tempo.
Arnold Rosner, Symphony № 5 (Missa sine cantoribus)
Stefan Wolpe, Symphony
I had a nice email exchange with Rosner not long before he sadly passed away.