As far as I know, we don't have a general thread devoted to streaming music services, so this one is intended to talk about them: Spotify, Deezer, Pandora, ClassicsOnLine HD and so.
BTW, Apple Music was launched 2 days ago and, after some hours of difficulties with the actualization of iTunes for Mac, it's now running in Macs, iPhones and iPads.
So far, I think it's a very satisfactory service in terms of sound quality (just 320 kbps, but actually sounds very good) and database. Probably, I was expecting for something else in terms of design (an Apple strong point), but the layout doesn't present innovations worth of being mentioned.
I will see the next three months (free trial) how it works out compared to Spotify. :)
Quote from: sanantonio on July 02, 2015, 04:19:19 AM
I am trying to get it to work on my PC but so far, it can't load my iTunes library (granted which is huge) - but I hate the forced editorializing with suggestions and playlists, etc. However, if it has gapless playing, I'm there, since this is the main drawback with Spotify and other streaming services. Listening to a long work that is broken into a dozen tracks, and having a hiccup every three minutes or so is infuriating.
I have listened to several disks and it has gapless playing. And yes, it has suggestions and playlists, but you can simply ignore them because they don't work automatically.
Basically, the search box gives you the option between to search in your own library or through Apple Music, and that is it.
Quote from: Gordo on July 02, 2015, 04:15:10 AM
As far as I know, we don't have a general thread devoted to streaming music services...
No - so thanks for starting this one, since I was just looking for somewhere to ask a question. I'm considering a subscription to Qobuz, and there's a very tempting "link" on this page: http://www.qobuz.com/gb-en/plans/music-streaming-subscription (http://www.qobuz.com/gb-en/plans/music-streaming-subscription) offering a 15-day free trial, but in fact it isn't a link at all and doesn't do anything. (Likewise, the FAQ and Help centre links on the Help page only refer back to the same page - O site, thou art sick, thinks I.) Does anyone know if and how I get the free trial?
Quote from: sanantonio on July 03, 2015, 12:57:39 PM
Are you located in Europe?
At the moment - although the UK is promised a referendum on EU membership...
Quote from: DaveF on July 03, 2015, 12:48:35 PM
No - so thanks for starting this one, since I was just looking for somewhere to ask a question. I'm considering a subscription to Qobuz, and there's a very tempting "link" on this page: http://www.qobuz.com/gb-en/plans/music-streaming-subscription (http://www.qobuz.com/gb-en/plans/music-streaming-subscription) offering a 15-day free trial, but in fact it isn't a link at all and doesn't do anything. (Likewise, the FAQ and Help centre links on the Help page only refer back to the same page - O site, thou art sick, thinks I.) Does anyone know if and how I get the free trial?
You're welcome! :)
As SA pointed out, it's probably an issue of regional restrictions.
Qobuz looks very attractive and when I learned about its lossless service a year ago, I tried to pay a subscription from Chile, but it wasn't possible.
Even so, I was able of purchasing some disks (I mean digital downloads) for awhile, but after some months this option was also eliminated. :(
P.S.: I did some further investigation and my hypothesis was wrong because this service was officially launched in UK almost a year ago: http://www.whathifi.com/news/qobuz-high-res-download-store-launches-in-uk :-\
Quote from: sanantonio on July 03, 2015, 12:56:29 PM
People are reporting that after invoking the import iTunes Library into iCloud that Apple Music screws up their iTunes Library's metadata, re-tagging items (sometimes incorrectly or at the very least differently from how you might have painstakingly tagged them), and even putting tracks from one album into another. Really messed up. I am glad my initial attempt failed. I have backed up my itl file and will wait to see if they fix the glitch before attempting again.
Fortunately, I didn't take this option because I suspected something like this....
BTW, another interesting feature on Apple Music is the streaming of a fair amount of musical videos, both popular and classical. :)
I've been using Apple Music for past few days since it started and found a great deal of what I like. However, there are some notable exceptions: ECM, Linn and Hyperion labels are the most significant omissions. None of those labels is on Spotify - a service of which I've only ever used the free version. I've read elsewhere that Qobuz used to have quite a lot of Hyperion and possibly ECM but I've never used that service, so cannot verify.
According to Apple they are currently streaming at 256kbps not 320 like Spotify, although Apple uses AAC which is supposed to have better overall quality in spite of the streaming speed.
Over past 2 days I have gone through Gramophone and BBC Music magazine reviews for their June editions and found about half to two thirds of them on Apple Music.
I wonder what other experiences people have had.
Thanks, all.
I know Qobuz subscriptions are available in the UK - I just wondered whether anyone had found a way to access the 15-day free trial, since the link doesn't actually link to anything. Perhaps you get it automatically when you sign up, which I'm going to do when I get back from holiday in a couple of weeks.
Does anyone listen to streams through hifi? How do you get it into the hifi?
Quote from: Mandryka on July 05, 2015, 02:28:01 AM
Does anyone listen to streams through hifi? How do you get it into the hifi?
I use a device from Kaiser Bass called Soundshift. It connects to my stereo amp via RCA plugs and all I have to do is select it on my iPad/iPhone via AirPlay. I've also managed to connect it to my work tablet via WiFi. Both run through my home WiFi network. I am very happy with the sound and the ability to listen to Spotifiy through my system.
Quote from: Holden on July 05, 2015, 02:41:45 AM
I use a device from Kaiser Bass called Soundshift. It connects to my stereo amp via RCA plugs and all I have to do is select it on my iPad/iPhone via AirPlay. I've also managed to connect it to my work tablet via WiFi. Both run through my home WiFi network. I am very happy with the sound and the ability to listen to Spotifiy through my system.
The reason I'm asking is that, although squeezebox works well for me, it hasn't been supported by Logitech for a long time, and that means that it isn't able to respond to changes in music streamers' formats. Spotify's OK. I rejected qobuz because the squeezebox app wasn't finding all the files available for streaming, and the youtube and soundcloud apps are a total failiour.
Let me check with you if you have the time. Does this Soundshift:
Stream your own server of lossless and lossy files? Is there a maximum server size?
Stream quobuz, soundcloud and youtube?
Allow you to search on your tablet?
Allow you to use an external DAC? (I know you're happy with the sound but . . . )
FYI, Linn is on Naxos Music Library. I think Hyperion and ECM may not be streaming anywhere.
Who streams Supraphon?
Quote from: sanantonio on July 03, 2015, 12:56:29 PM
People are reporting that after invoking the import iTunes Library into iCloud that Apple Music screws up their iTunes Library's metadata, re-tagging items (sometimes incorrectly or at the very least differently from how you might have painstakingly tagged them), and even putting tracks from one album into another. Really messed up. I am glad my initial attempt failed. I have backed up my itl file and will wait to see if they fix the glitch before attempting again.
I read about the problems people were having with importing their iTunes library into iCloud, so I quickly ignored Apple's first prompt to get me to upgrade to the "Apple Music" version of iTunes.
Here's my question: Can you install the latest version of iTunes without importing your iTunes library, or is it automatic?
Quote from: sanantonio on July 05, 2015, 06:43:11 AM
Aside from the tagging issue of more concern to me is the DRM issue. That is a policy decision by Apple and not linked to a software update.
Thank you. Can you explain what you mean here?
Quote from: Mandryka on July 05, 2015, 04:42:09 AM
The reason I'm asking is that, although squeezebox works well for me, it hasn't been supported by Logitech for a long time, and that means that it isn't able to respond to changes in music streamers' formats. Spotify's OK. I rejected qobuz because the squeezebox app wasn't finding all the files available for streaming, and the youtube and soundcloud apps are a total failiour.
Let me check with you if you have the time. Does this Soundshift:
Stream your own server of lossless and lossy files? Is there a maximum server size?
Stream quobuz, soundcloud and youtube?
Allow you to search on your tablet?
Allow you to use an external DAC? (I know you're happy with the sound but . . . )
While I can't give a definite yes to all your questions I can give a qualified one given that I know how the system works.
The Kaiser Baas Soundshift is a wireless receiver that operates via your homes wireless network. If you don't have a wireless network it can also act as a wireless hotspot. It will pick up wireless streams from Apple devices via the already installed AirPlay available on iDevices (iPad, iPhone, etc) and Macs. For PCs and tablets it uses DLNA to connect wirelessly. I've used both so I know it works. In other words it is controlled by the apps on your device so I think that's a Yes to all four questions (assuming your server runs and is controlled by a PC and/or a software media player)
Via my iPad I've streamed YouTube, Spotify, my music library to my Hifi setup, basically anything that produces sound on my device. The sound quality is very good. I used the work tablet to play my sound library via WMPlayer. I also have JRiver which would also work. I haven't got around to streaming from my PC yet as I don't need to. The range is quoted as 30m.
The Soundshift is a small cube that fits easily into the palm of my hand. It is powered from the wall via a 5v mini USB and connects to my amp via RCA leads. It was given to me as a thank you gift and has to be one of the best gifts I've had. From what I can gather it costs about $US100.
Logitech make a similar device but it uses Bluetooth to connect and sometimes pairing can be an issue with Bluetooth. I imagine that there are other devices as well.
The only issue I had was the initial set up connecting it to my home network. There was one instruction missing in the manual. A quick call to the help desk solved the problem.
Hope this helps.
Hi Guys - just wanted to join this thread because I do steaming mainly to a decent BT soundbar connected to my HDTV via an optical cable - w/ the latter, I mainly do Pandora using a Roku device.
I also use the BT feature of the soundbar to stream from my iPad using either an Amazon app (I've purchased hundreds of CDs from them and the music is available for streaming) and Spotify - the sound from that rather inexpensive BT speaker system (has a BT sub-woofer) is not as good as my regular speakers but is quite acceptable. Dave :)
Quote from: sanantonio on July 05, 2015, 09:10:32 AM
From what I understand from reading this article (http://www.cnet.com/news/itunes-users-hit-stumbling-blocks-with-arrival-of-apple-music/) Apple will add DRM to all your music tracks during the importing process to iCloud making it impossible to play them unless you continue buying Apple tunes:
Thank you. Apple is just too wonderful for words.
Quote from: sanantonio on July 05, 2015, 09:10:32 AM
From what I understand from reading this article (http://www.cnet.com/news/itunes-users-hit-stumbling-blocks-with-arrival-of-apple-music/) Apple will add DRM to all your music tracks during the importing process to iCloud making it impossible to play them unless you continue buying Apple tunes:
They have a terrible approach to DRM, always trying to lock you into their services. With this, I became anti-Apple (when they first started doing this funny business years ago) and absolutely refuse to buy anything of theirs. I was hoping their approach to locking you into their software/hardware/services had changed, but apparently not. There is no reason to give any money to Apple when there are better alternatives...
Quote from: mc ukrneal on July 05, 2015, 12:30:07 PM
They have a terrible approach to DRM, always trying to lock you into their services. With this, I became anti-Apple (when they first started doing this funny business years ago) and absolutely refuse to buy anything of theirs. I was hoping their approach to locking you into their software/hardware/services had changed, but apparently not. There is no reason to give any money to Apple when there are better alternatives...
You wouldn't happen to have a better alternative than the iPod Classic, would you?
Quote from: NJ Joe on July 05, 2015, 02:36:15 PM
You wouldn't happen to have a better alternative than the iPod Classic, would you?
I have this one (http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00VR5JHVK/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pC_nS_ttl?_encoding=UTF8&colid=SA79GVJE267Z&coliid=I15B7E7ROGA7ZG) on my list, after plenty of shopping. I think it will pretty well blow an old Classic out of the water. Even plays FLAC! :)
8)
Re: Apple Music
Correction to my earlier posting: Apple Music does have the Linn label as I've now been able to listen to the excellent Dunedin Consort perform the Mozart Requiem.
Other thoughts:
Up to date Chandos releases appear few if any, but there are older ones.
Most of the June chamber music releases reviewed in Gramophone were on Apple Music, but there were much fewer orchestral releases. That might be just specific to the June edition. I'll see what the July one has.
The absence of ECM and Hyperion is undoubtedly a great pity, but there's much more than I ever would have bought through other means yet would love to have access to, so at the moment I will stay with Apple Music. It'll be ECM's and Hyperion's loss. I will only rarely buy their releases, but it also means sadly not hearing Stephen Hough and missing out on Andras Schiff's recent fortepiano performances of Schubert and the ones due to follow. Call me a cheapskate!
Quote from: clivemcr on July 06, 2015, 05:50:19 AM
Re: Apple Music
Correction to my earlier posting: Apple Music does have the Linn label as I've now been able to listen to the excellent Dunedin Consort perform the Mozart Requiem.
Other thoughts:
Up to date Chandos releases appear few if any, but there are older ones.
Most of the June chamber music releases reviewed in Gramophone were on Apple Music, but there were much fewer orchestral releases. That might be just specific to the June edition. I'll see what the July one has.
The absence of ECM and Hyperion is undoubtedly a great pity, but there's much more than I ever would have bought through other means yet would love to have access to, so at the moment I will stay with Apple Music. It'll be ECM's and Hyperion's loss. I will only rarely buy their releases, but it also means sadly not hearing Stephen Hough and missing out on Andras Schiff's recent fortepiano performances of Schubert and the ones due to follow. Call me a cheapskate!
In addition, if Hyperion and ECM don't want their releases on streaming media is a commercial decision. Other thing is if it will be a successful comercial decision. Just time will say. :)
So far, I find the sound quality of Apple Music very good and compared to Spotify, whatever the technical reason.
It has also suggested me some interesting disks to listen; but this is not very mysterious, as Apple knows extensively my library.
Worth reading: http://kernelmag.dailydot.com/issue-sections/staff-editorials/12136/spotify-royalty-payment-model/
Quote from: Gurn Blanston on July 05, 2015, 02:42:21 PM
I have this one (http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00VR5JHVK/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pC_nS_ttl?_encoding=UTF8&colid=SA79GVJE267Z&coliid=I15B7E7ROGA7ZG) on my list, after plenty of shopping. I think it will pretty well blow an old Classic out of the water. Even plays FLAC! :)
8)
I just bought an X1 ($100) with a 64 GB card and am very happy with it. In terms of sound quality, it would nuke the iPod (plays lossless files, better electronics, better output). In terms of UI, I like it better because you don't need any media player to manage it; just copy files from your HD onto the card and keep using any folder system you want! Very straightforward and painless! The build quality is impressive, it is all metal, and it has some very nice external buttons for volume, track advance, pause, etc--mostly lacking on my iPod Touch. Buy a 128 GB card, and it will hold approx 500 CDs worth of lossless music. Buy the X5 (next on my list) and outfit it with two of these cards and you have 1000 CDs worth of lossless music in the palm of your hand.
This is amazing to me, because I remember, even ten years ago traveling with a portable CD player, and trying to decide which 20-30 CDs I was going to take along!
I stopped using iTunes years ago after it did a number of inexplicable and infuriating things to the small collection of MP3s I allowed it to manage (I have vastly larger stash of FLAC files). The idea that you must have a media player to manage a portable device is stupid anyway, and iTunes is particularly pernicious in a number of respects (for one, it locks you into their walled garden). I refuse to download it onto either of our new windows machines (PC or laptop).
My iPod Touch developed a problem years ago with the output, but I still keep it around because I like the alarm clock, timer and such. But when it goes Tango Uniform, I will not replace it with another one, and will be completely Apple-free! :laugh:
Well, and Apple is all about managing the little consumers . . . .
Quote from: XB-70 Valkyrie on July 09, 2015, 12:56:53 PM
I stopped using iTunes years ago after it did a number of inexplicable and infuriating things to the small collection of MP3s I allowed it to manage (I have vastly larger stash of FLAC files). The idea that you must have a media player to manage a portable device is stupid anyway, and iTunes is particularly pernicious in a number of respects (for one, it locks you into their walled garden). I refuse to download it onto either of our new windows machines (PC or laptop).
My iPod Touch developed a problem years ago with the output, but I still keep it around because I like the alarm clock, timer and such. But when it goes Tango Uniform, I will not replace it with another one, and will be completely Apple-free! :laugh:
I became an Apple consumer over the years. Actually, they have sold me almost any device that they have wanted: iPhone, MacBook, iMac, iPad, iPod Classic and even an Apple Watch. :-[
But I have accepted the basic premise of this company: they have developed a sort of closed garden, where their different devices and softwares are designed to (mainly) operate with devices and softwares of the same company. So when some of these products also work out, for instance, on Windows, almost always the experience isn't complete. For instance, talking about iTunes, it doesn't support FLAC archives what is a pain in the ass for many people, but I'm perfectly happy with AIFF files developed by Apple.
That said, I think Apple Music is the first attempt authentically "universal" faced for Apple; but it's hard to teach new tricks an old dog. ;D
Quote from: Gordo on July 10, 2015, 04:19:05 AM
[...] But I have accepted the basic premise of [Apple]: they have developed a sort of closed garden, where their different devices and softwares are designed to (mainly) operate with devices and softwares of the same company. So when some of these products also work out, for instance, on Windows, almost always the experience isn't complete.
Now, why am I thinking of Charles Wallace and Meg on Camazotz? . . .
Quote from: karlhenning on July 10, 2015, 04:31:11 AM
Now, why am I thinking of Charles Wallace and Meg on Camazotz? . . .
I will do some research, but your reference simply eludes me by now. :)
A Wrinkle in Time, Madeleine L'Engle :)
And the "Beats" headphones by "Dr. Dre" are possibly the shallowest money-grab yet from the company. I knew when I first heard of these that they must be crap--and of course, it's easy to sell crap to sheep if you stamp some BIG CELEBRITY's name on it.
There was an article on Gizmodo or somewhere where they actually disassembled a pair of those $200 headphones, and they found...$15 worth of parts. I find it interesting that the Walkman--in its current guises (MP3 players and High Resolution media player) will likely outlive the iPod. (Just as the LP will likely outlive the CD.)
Quote from: XB-70 Valkyrie on July 10, 2015, 12:23:20 PM
And the "Beats" headphones by "Dr. Dre" are possibly the shallowest money-grab yet from the company. I knew when I first heard of these that they must be crap--and of course, it's easy to sell crap to sheep if you stamp some BIG CELEBRITY's name on it.
I don't think it's so easy. As I said before, I'm an usual consumer of Apple devices, but I have never considered (even remotely) to purchase one of those headphones. I would like to see some statistics, but I would bet that Apple consumers aren't not buying those headphones, even because of design issues. Apparently, the Apple's target weren't exactly those devices when decided to acquire that company...
Quote from: sanantonio on July 10, 2015, 12:40:09 PM
The Beats service bought MOG, a competitor to Spotify, and then was bought itself by Apple. Apple now uses it for its Radio feature since it had a decent algorithm for detecting your potential likes..
Yes, that was the target.
Quote from: sanantonio on July 05, 2015, 09:10:32 AM
From what I understand from reading this article (http://www.cnet.com/news/itunes-users-hit-stumbling-blocks-with-arrival-of-apple-music/) Apple will add DRM to all your music tracks during the importing process to iCloud making it impossible to play them unless you continue buying Apple tunes:
This isn't entirely accurate, and that article is a heck of a lot less precise about it than some others I read last week.
It's been happening to some people, on some tracks, some of the time. It was a
bug, most definitely not an intentional feature as you suggested in another post (getting a few other anti-Apple comments from others for good measure). And reportedly a new release from Apple today fixes it.
PS I'm not using Apple Music. The whole streaming idea is something I'm just not very interested in using as my
main service. A free service with ads suits my needs (and for what it's worth, I find Rdio way easier to manage than Spotify).
Well, anyone who would deny the benign nature of Apple's tyranny must certainly just be a disaffected individual 8)
Quote from: sanantonio on July 14, 2015, 06:33:52 AM
... I find Apple Music to be, by far, the best streaming service I've used, with the added benefit now of having access to your entire iTunes library.
+1
Over the years I have paid subscriptions on Naxos Music Library, Deezer, Spotify, Rdio and ClassicsOnLine HD; but Apple Music is setting a new standard.
Things I would like to see improved? I would like an app or feature with the lyrics of the music (as Spotty and other streaming services), and a view of the booklet (ClassicsOnLine and NML have this feature).
Quote from: karlhenning on July 14, 2015, 06:42:44 AM
Well, anyone who would deny the benign nature of Apple's tyranny must certainly just be a disaffected individual 8)
If Apple is benign, then Microsoft must really care about its customers! :o
Quote from: sanantonio on July 14, 2015, 06:33:52 AM
with the added benefit now of having access to your entire iTunes library.
See,
this is the bit of advertising from all the streaming services I find truly bizarre. I already have access to my entire iTunes library. In a program called iTunes.
Rdio occasionally gives me ads where a slightly excited girl declares how good it is that now she can listen to music offline. I've been listening to music offline for most of my life.
It reminds me of the ads for the Visa Paywave system (where you just tap your credit card against a reader, not sure what the more generic worldwide name for this is). The ads drove me crazy by saying "look how fast this is, if you don't use it you'll hold up the lunchtime queue", because I already had a system that was way faster than a credit card when buying my lunch: it's called cash.
Quote from: sanantonio on July 14, 2015, 07:51:28 AM
Yes, I do to - when I am at home. However, when I am not home I don't unless I take a hard drive with me. That is inconvenient compared to having all the tracks in iCloud. And having them dovetailed into the entire Apple Music library, even more convenient.
Well, I do take a hard drive with me. It's called an iPhone... And yes, I can't fit absolutely everything on it, but then I used to only be able to carry around a limited number of CDs before that. I don't need hundreds of albums available each day because I can't listen to hundreds of albums each day.
I just don't get that there's much added value. You can listen to everything they already have without having a copy that's labelled "yours", if it's "yours" in the cloud then you still have to download it in exactly the same way as if it's "theirs", and if you can already put your stuff in iCloud then you don't need their new streaming service to have it there!
Quote from: sanantonio on July 14, 2015, 08:33:57 AM
My iTunes library is well over 1T
Yikes.
Well, I don't know how big mine would be if I actually loaded all my CDs onto the computer, and the 300 Tori Amos concerts probably take a lot of room (hmm, apparently 283 Gb) , but...
Oh hang on, iTunes can tell me how much stuff it has... yeah, I've only got 47 Gigabytes in there right now.
I do own a lot more music than that. I guess I just don't feel the need to have access to it all everywhere I go. The only time I'd think I was going to run out of material to listen to is if I travelled, and I actually tend to listen to
less music when I travel because I'm doing other things.
Quote from: Holden on July 05, 2015, 08:29:13 AM
While I can't give a definite yes to all your questions I can give a qualified one given that I know how the system works.
The Kaiser Baas Soundshift is a wireless receiver that operates via your homes wireless network. If you don't have a wireless network it can also act as a wireless hotspot. It will pick up wireless streams from Apple devices via the already installed AirPlay available on iDevices (iPad, iPhone, etc) and Macs. For PCs and tablets it uses DLNA to connect wirelessly. I've used both so I know it works. In other words it is controlled by the apps on your device so I think that's a Yes to all four questions (assuming your server runs and is controlled by a PC and/or a software media player)
Via my iPad I've streamed YouTube, Spotify, my music library to my Hifi setup, basically anything that produces sound on my device. The sound quality is very good. I used the work tablet to play my sound library via WMPlayer. I also have JRiver which would also work. I haven't got around to streaming from my PC yet as I don't need to. The range is quoted as 30m.
The Soundshift is a small cube that fits easily into the palm of my hand. It is powered from the wall via a 5v mini USB and connects to my amp via RCA leads. It was given to me as a thank you gift and has to be one of the best gifts I've had. From what I can gather it costs about $US100.
Logitech make a similar device but it uses Bluetooth to connect and sometimes pairing can be an issue with Bluetooth. I imagine that there are other devices as well.
The only issue I had was the initial set up connecting it to my home network. There was one instruction missing in the manual. A quick call to the help desk solved the problem.
Hope this helps.
Thanks for this, which I only just saw.
People who like applemusic, I can see theee advantages over spotify reading this thread.
1.sound quality
2 access to own music.
3. Interesting suggestions
Is that right, or have I missed something. How is their catalogue? Someone who has it, how many tracks come up for Grigny (spotify here has 629) and for Ferneyhough (213 on spotify) and for Mozart (186995)?
Quote from: Mandryka on July 16, 2015, 01:32:05 AM
People who like applemusic, I can see theee advantages over spotify reading this thread.
1.sound quality
2 access to own music.
3. Interesting suggestions
Is that right, or have I missed something. How is their catalogue? Someone who has it, how many tracks come up for Grigny (spotify here has 629) and for Ferneyhough (213 on spotify) and for Mozart (186995)?
You can access your own music with Spotify as it has a local library connection. However, I can just as easily do that with JRiver.
Quote from: Holden on July 16, 2015, 11:55:47 AM
You can access your own music with Spotify as it has a local library connection. However, I can just as easily do that with JRiver.
Spotify will only let me access mp3, not lossless formats. It's potentially an issue because someday I'd like to access my own music, which is mostly flac, via the internet. I've tried several proposed ways but none was satisfactory.
I'm not especially knowledgeable about streaming music, but knowing how some of you guys are set up, and also how I am set up, why can't I have my own web page (just like the one I have now from Go-Daddy for $1.50 / month) and store my terabyte of flacs there, and then play them back with some sort of streaming player, of which I can imagine there are many. Why use a service when I/you have 5000+ cd's worth of flacs? Is that totally inane? ???
8)
Quote from: Gurn Blanston on July 16, 2015, 12:49:11 PM
I'm not especially knowledgeable about streaming music, but knowing how some of you guys are set up, and also how I am set up, why can't I have my own web page (just like the one I have now from Go-Daddy for $1.50 / month) and store my terabyte of flacs there, and then play them back with some sort of streaming player, of which I can imagine there are many. Why use a service when I/you have 5000+ cd's worth of flacs? Is that totally inane? ???
8)
I think streaming services are really for people who want to discover lots of new stuff. Look, someone just told me that Alan Curtis has died, I know nothing about him, and bingo, at the touch of an ipad I'm listening to him playing Louis Couperin. Through my hifi. Earlier this week I found a tremedous new recording of Fiori Muscale and last week I could easily hear a trio by Michael Finnissy when someone said it was interesting. I value that sort of thing enough to pay spotify for the pleasure.
Can you really store ITB in a cloud for $1.50 pm? How will you upload it? Will it download fast enough with 4G to play as a stream without jumps for buffering?
Quote from: Mandryka on July 16, 2015, 01:11:32 PM
I think streaming services are really for people who want to discover lots of new stuff. Look, someone just told me that Alan Curtis has died, I know nothing about him, and bingo, at the touch of an ipad I'm listening to him playing Louis Couperin. Through my hifi. Earlier this week I found a tremedous new recording of Fiori Muscale and last week I could easily hear a trio by Michael Finnissy when someone said it was interesting. I value that sort of thing enough to pay spotify for the pleasure.
Can you really store ITB in a cloud for $1.50 pm? How will you upload it? Will it download fast enough with 4G to play as a stream without jumps for buffering?
I don't know, I've not looked into it yet. My storage for my own web site is something like 20 gigs, IIRC. It has plenty enough bandwidth for just 1 user to stream all day long. If I had some obscure name for it, no one would be likely to just stumble upon it and hook up. I wouldn't be able to upload on my satellite, but I know people with fiber optic with unlimited upload/download who would do it for me.
Sorry to hear about Alan Curtis, I have a couple of disks of him on keyboard, and another or two of him as a conductor. I enjoy them...
Anyway, I see your point, although hell, I have a ton of music I've not anywhere near worn out yet, a lot of it has been one listen each, and never time to go back for more. I guess it will all depend on your own personal needs.
8)
Quote from: Mandryka on July 16, 2015, 01:11:32 PM
I think streaming services are really for people who want to discover lots of new stuff. Look, someone just told me that Alan Curtis has died, I know nothing about him, and bingo, at the touch of an ipad I'm listening to him playing Louis Couperin. Through my hifi. Earlier this week I found a tremedous new recording of Fiori Muscale and last week I could easily hear a trio by Michael Finnissy when someone said it was interesting. I value that sort of thing enough to pay spotify for the pleasure.
Bad news. I hadn't read anything about his death. :(
His recording of both the English and French Suites on Teldec has been highly praised here a number of times, when the issue has been discussed.
Quote from: Mandryka on July 16, 2015, 01:11:32 PM
I think streaming services are really for people who want to discover lots of new stuff.
Which is exactly what I use them for, for free.
Quote from: Mandryka on July 16, 2015, 01:32:05 AM
People who like applemusic, I can see theee advantages over spotify reading this thread.
1.sound quality
2 access to own music.
3. Interesting suggestions
Is that right, or have I missed something. How is their catalogue? Someone who has it, how many tracks come up for Grigny (spotify here has 629) and for Ferneyhough (213 on spotify) and for Mozart (186995)?
I don't know if this adds something to you, but there are also available a fair amount of video clips, both classical and popular. For instance, yesterday I watched a video of Argerich and Barenboim playing Schumann's "Andante and Variations for Two Pianos" Op. 42.
BTW, few days ago I posted a link related to a court decision (on copyright matters) involving the song "Blurred Lines" by Robin Thicke. After that, I searched for it on Apple Music and I was surprised because a video including nudity scenes (with some graceful girls dancing in topless) was available, without any kind of "parental advisory" or something like that.
I just stumbled upon SiriusXM's Roku channel. (Looked for it for a while, but then forgot about it.) Listening to Prokofiev's Symphony No. 6/Gergiev.
Maybe I've missed it in this thread (or other theads), but I wonder which streaming service has the best selection of different performances. Is it possible to find obscurities and/or historic recordings, or is it all a huge mass of Itzahk Perlman, Lang Lang, and Dude-uh-mel? I don't think I would ever sign up for a paid service, but I am tempted to try something free, mainly to find new music and new performances, which I would eventually buy on CD (or download).
Quote from: XB-70 Valkyrie on July 18, 2015, 03:51:22 PM
Maybe I've missed it in this thread (or other theads), but I wonder which streaming service has the best selection of different performances. Is it possible to find obscurities and/or historic recordings, or is it all a huge mass of Itzahk Perlman, Lang Lang, and Dude-uh-mel? I don't think I would ever sign up for a paid service, but I am tempted to try something free, mainly to find new music and new performances, which I would eventually buy on CD (or download).
We just did Pandora 1 for a few bones a month. Great for background music while doing other things, but for serious listening it is a bit wanting. Plus you have to work that thumbs up and down for a week or so to start getting what you really want. I have decent surf music and exotica channels now, but it took time.
Quote from: XB-70 Valkyrie on July 18, 2015, 03:51:22 PM
Maybe I've missed it in this thread (or other theads), but I wonder which streaming service has the best selection of different performances. Is it possible to find obscurities and/or historic recordings, or is it all a huge mass of Itzahk Perlman, Lang Lang, and Dude-uh-mel? I don't think I would ever sign up for a paid service, but I am tempted to try something free, mainly to find new music and new performances, which I would eventually buy on CD (or download).
I've been using Spotify for a while now and been quite impressed with the range of historical recordings available. I decided to check out Erich Kleiber and found a wide range of his recordings and that's only one example. I've also found that the new Apple service has stuff that Spotify doesn't and vice versa. The downside for both services is that there is a lot of stuff that you think they would have and don't. This includes your Lang Langs.
So having checked out many of the services including Deezer, Pandora, Rdio, etc I am happy with Spotify and also think that many would find Apple an excellent alternative.
Thanks. Will check out Spotify for starters.
Qobuz have a cheap classical only streaming service, 15€ per month, which I've started to explore.
Sound quality is better than spotify. In the case of Egarr's Purcell suites and Louis Couperin, the difference is astonishing.
Search via the squeezebox app is much more difficult than with spotify. Though I can sense that in time I'll learn how to drive it better.
Some things on qobuz which are not on spotify, and it looks like some important artists (Jane Chapman is an example, or Purcell from Phantasm) are missing from qobuz.
Quote from: DaveF on July 04, 2015, 01:58:18 PM
Thanks, all.
I know Qobuz subscriptions are available in the UK - I just wondered whether anyone had found a way to access the 15-day free trial, since the link doesn't actually link to anything. Perhaps you get it automatically when you sign up, which I'm going to do when I get back from holiday in a couple of weeks.
I think you do get the free trial automatically when you sign up but it's been a while.
Qobuz is good but it's clear that we're hitting it towards the end of its lifespan. A lot of label catalogues have been 'purged'—e.g. the other day I wanted to look through the catalogue of Norwegian specialist label Simax Classics, which their search algorithm still records as having 100+ results, but which in reality is down to a handful of recent releases. (Fortunately they're on Naxos... I think.) New World Records had something like 500 recordings up which I'd listen to at semi-random in search of some good new music, until suddenly they were just completely gone; same with Kairos. Oehms and Hyperion used to be streamable, but Oehms decided to go download-only and Hyperion got removed from the service altogether. Labels are pulling out; clearly they weren't making enough money off of it and are hoping to get back to the buy-a-CD model. Streaming does, however, create an entirely different kind of listening environment that can't be replicated by buying a lot of CDs, which I guess they don't realise.
Main advantages of Qobuz are the quality (lossless streaming) and some of the labels (e.g. Universal, Outhere, Supraphon, every French label you can think of and most of the Italians). And it's not too expensive. Search is bad, but that's partly because of tagging issues which are the same everywhere.
Quote from: sanantonio on July 29, 2015, 04:39:49 AM
Atlantic article (http://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2015/07/the-tragedy-of-itunes-and-classical-music/399788/) about Apple Music and iTunes but generally about how lousy digital files and streaming services are with classical music metadata.
To be fair, I don't think it is as hard as described in the article to find specific classical recordings in iTunes, but I understand the complaints.
I read the same article today. Some of the complaints are specifically about the
newest version of iTunes/the Apple Music service causing problems that didn't previously exist.
I've deliberately not updated my copy of iTunes precisely because I don't want to get caught up in the bugs that are clearly present as they try to introduce a fairly fundamental change in the functionality of the program. Even without having upgraded, I'm highly suspicious that some of what they've done in the background is filtering through to me: I've twice had a problem with my iPhone when making changes to the music collection on it via my computer, with albums having duplicate records of themselves and thereby wanting to play every track twice, and this is a problem that I can't recall ever having before in over 4 years of use. It could be coincidence, or it could be result of the shenanigans involved in having an Apple Music library in parallel to a user's own library of recordings.
Up until now I would have said that iTunes' metadata for classical music was a lot more consistent than some rivals such as Spotify. However, there are clearly severe problems at the moment. There are ample reports of stupid behaviour with non-classical music such as replacing live versions of songs with studio versions because they have the same title and artist, or not accepting that you might have two copies of a song because one belongs on the original album and the other belongs on a greatest hits album.
Quote from: amw on July 28, 2015, 05:33:54 AM
I think you do get the free trial automatically when you sign up but it's been a while.
Yes, you do, thanks, and I did - and then cancelled because I realised I would just spend too much time listening, to the exclusion of everything else.
These last days, I have been recurrently experiencing this problem on Apple Music: some tracks aren't fully played before skipping towards the next track. I guess I don't need to say how infuriating this results. It happened, for instance, some minutes ago, while I listened to Peter Frankl playing Schumann's Symphonic Etudes Op. 13.
Anyone else has had some similar problem? >:(
Quote from: Gordo on August 02, 2015, 06:07:46 PM
These last days, I have been recurrently experiencing this problem on Apple Music: some tracks aren't fully played before skipping towards the next track. I guess I don't need to say how infuriating this results. It happened, for instance, some minutes ago, while I listened to Peter Frankl playing Schumann's Symphonic Etudes Op. 13.
Anyone else has had some similar problem? >:(
Looks like the problem is widespread: https://www.yahoo.com/tech/apple-music-what-happened-125794827239.html (https://www.yahoo.com/tech/apple-music-what-happened-125794827239.html)
Let me make a post here saying what I would like to do, just in case someone knows whether it's possible.
1. I want to stream my own music to my hifi using wifi. My library is about 2TB with about 75,000 tracks in many formats, mostly flac.
2. I want to be able to create playlists including my music and music from spotify and other streaming services, like youtube and qobuz.
3. I want to be able to search libraries and create playlists using a tablet.
At the moment I can do this with Logitech squeezebox and a PC with the music sitting in a hard drive. But the squeezebox is unsupported and I'm concerned that the interface to streaming services will cease to function. It has already stopped working for youtube, as they changed one of their formats. Of course, the Logitech hardware will eventually fail (but I have a backup.)
I am prepared to buy new hardware (I wonder if I can do it with apple.) And I am prepared to change the file type of my own music library - though I would prefer a lossless format.
This month I decided to cancel my Apple Music subscription.
Unfortunately, its technical problems haven't decreased over the time, but the contrary.
I have decided to come back to Classics Online, even if its monthly price is three times more expensive than Apple Music ($4.99 vs. $14,99).
Now, I'm curious: how many people here have cancelled their Apple Music subscriptions or simply abandoned after the trial period?
I didn't take up the offer. I already have Spotify and Apple didn't appear to be significantly better of worse. I don't see the reason for having two very similar services so I stuck with what I know.
Quote from: Holden on November 17, 2015, 07:21:25 PM
I didn't take up the offer. I already have Spotify and Apple didn't appear to be significantly better of worse. I don't see the reason for having two very similar services so I stuck with what I know.
I find its sound quality superior to Spotify (I did some detailed comparison), and some of its features are conceptually interesting (for instance, to provide musical videos); but its search system is a nightmare and finally has dissuaded me of following with this service.
In addition, I exclusively listen to classical music, so there is a lot of options of Apple Music that simply I don't use.
Why Rdio died: https://hec.su/b1TJ
I find Apple Music to be pretty good. The catalog is comparable to or better than Spotify (each has things the other does not) and by any measure is pretty deep and wide.
The main problems that you have with it come from it being layered on top of the existing iTunes functionality and therefore not quite acting completely seamlessly if you have an existing catalog of local or cloud-stored music.
I think it will evolve to be decent. I find the interface, though incomplete and janky, is still mostly better than the desktop or mobile spotify interface. But that's more of a personal preference.
I decided to do a trial of Spotify. So far, I have found one CD that Tidal does not have. It appears they get their classical catalog from the same place.
Quote from: Gordo on November 17, 2015, 07:49:04 PM
Why Rdio died: https://hec.su/b1TJ
WHAAAAT???!!!
Seriously, I was about to subscribe. I've been using the free version on and off, much prefer it to Spotify, and recently took my month free trial to see how I felt about it without ads.
Bloody disaster. I hate Spotify's interface in comparison.
I decided to keep my Apple Music subscription. It has all the rock-music I remember from my youth with bands like It's a beautiful day, Curved Air, Renaissance, Quatermass, Quicksilver Messenger Service etc... It also has all the Norwegian pop and rock music from the 60's and 70's. It sets up interesting playlists for me, and it has a very wide selection of classical music. I did a search for Julius Röntgen, and it presented me with works from 31 different CDs. It saves me from every buying a pop/rock CD again, and the selection of classical music is great.
I have had no technical problems whatsoever.
Has anyone tried Deezer?
It's currently my chief candidate for an Rdio substitute. Some similiarites in its interface.
Also some similarities to Spotify, but hallelujah it has the basic bit of functionality Spotify is lacking despite literally years of complaints: a "Remove from Queue" button that works.
Quote from: orfeo on November 21, 2015, 01:40:07 AM
Has anyone tried Deezer?
It's currently my chief candidate for an Rdio substitute. Some similiarites in its interface.
Also some similarities to Spotify, but hallelujah it has the basic bit of functionality Spotify is lacking despite literally years of complaints: a "Remove from Queue" button that works.
Yes, in matter of sound quality is quite similar to Spotify and Rdio, but its catalogue is quite bigger than the last one and even bigger than Spotify too. Its classical music section is huge.
The cons? Principally, its interface, IMHO. Its web interface is only passable compared to Rdio; but its desk app is really bad, at least, its Mac incarnation.
Okay. I've never really felt the need for a "desk app" - if I'm connected to the internet for streaming, then the web version is fine.
The interface is a little busier than Rdio, but I'm finding it workable. A bit of experimenting is showing me that I can do the key things I want to. Once I figured out how to use the check boxes, several things became much simpler. I generally use streaming services for sampling works, so I'm not especially desperate to have favourites or create playlists but it seems as if that functionality is readily available.
Search seems no worse, although I was thrown by a particular recording being listed as "ouevres pour piano" instead of "works for piano"! It seems that getting complete consistency for Classical recordings is an impossibility (pop music by title and artist is so much easier), but anything is better than Spotify's suggestion of "The Barber of Seville" as a top pick for Samuel Barber. ::)
Quote from: sanantonio on November 25, 2015, 10:13:26 AM
Last month I bought the 250,000 song storage option for the Amazon Cloud Drive, for only $25/year - and have begun uploading my library, which is almost 175,000 "songs". I will probably cancel Apple Music since their upload option does not work nearly as well, forcing you to use iTunes, and topping out at 25,000 songs. I was told by them that the only way I could sync my library with the Apple cloud would be to pare down my library from 175K to 25K tracks.
The Amazon player pretty good.
Can you give me a link to this storage option on the Amazon cloud that you bought? I just can't find it.
Quote from: sanantonio on November 27, 2015, 08:46:01 AM
You first have to have an Amazon Music subscription. But here is the page explaining how to upgrade (https://www.amazon.com/gp/help/customer/display.html/ref=hp_left_v4_sib?ie=UTF8&nodeId=201420290) the storage subscription. This is from the Amazon US site, if you use Amazon UK, you will need to find a similar page on that site.
Thanks, it's not quite right for me because of the limitation to MP3 and to albums in the Amazon library. It's a shame because I'm very keen to get some backup away from my house.
Quote from: sanantonio on November 27, 2015, 12:36:03 PM
It is not limited to the Amazon library, any track in on your computer is imported and nearly all formats are compatible, ogg, flac, aiff, m4a, wav, wma, etc.
Aha - but I think that when a track is not in the Amazon library it has to be in a lossy format. As far as I can see this can be very high quality. Still you're right and I shall explore it and other options once Christmas/New Year is out of the way.
Quote from: sanantonio on November 25, 2015, 10:13:26 AM
Last month I bought the 250,000 song storage option for the Amazon Cloud Drive, for only $25/year - and have begun uploading my library, which is almost 175,000 "songs". I will probably cancel Apple Music since their upload option does not work nearly as well, forcing you to use iTunes, and topping out at 25,000 songs. I was told by them that the only way I could sync my library with the Apple cloud would be to pare down my library from 175K to 25K tracks.
The Amazon player pretty good.
Some days ago, I said here I decided to cancel my Apple Music subscription, but what I really did was to cancel the auto-renewal of my subscription, which expires on December 1. So, currently I use two different streaming services: Apple Music and Classics OnLine. And I am having a hard time in order to maintain my decision about Apple Music. It's true its search engine is a mess and every day seems more evident that mixing everything into iTunes wasn't a good idea. But still its sound quality and gapless reproduction are stellar, no to mention the excellent catalogue. Decisions, decisions...
Quote from: sanantonio on November 28, 2015, 02:50:09 PM
I was happy to discover that the Amazon player also has gapless playback. Spotify and Amazon are enough for me.
I have a sort of prejudice against Spotify. I have never liked its sound quality, and it's not just a thing in favor of Apple Music because I have preferred almost every other streaming service that I have tried: Rdio, Deezer, Magnatune, Naxos Music Library, Classics OnLine. I don't like its layout neither. I think simply it's not for me. :(
Amazon sounds like a good option if copyright restrictions allow me to try it from Chile.
Quote from: Gordo on November 28, 2015, 07:47:15 PM
I have a sort of prejudice against Spotify. I have never liked its sound quality, and it's not just a thing in favor of Apple Music because I have preferred almost every other streaming service that I have tried: Rdio, Deezer, Magnatune, Naxos Music Library, Classics OnLine. I don't like its layout neither. I think simply it's not for me. :(
Amazon sounds like a good option if copyright restrictions allow me to try it from Chile.
I wonder why spotify sounds so bad. The spotify app is much better than Tidal's. Still, I'll probably cancel spotify and keep Tidal.
Quote from: Daverz on November 30, 2015, 12:42:05 PM
I wonder why spotify sounds so bad. The spotify app is much better than Tidal's. Still, I'll probably cancel spotify and keep Tidal.
I was wondering if I'm deaf and I'm the only person here who thought this way. It's a relief to see at somebody else thinks the same. :)
... btw, just for the record, I'm a weak human being. Today I activated the automatic renewal option on Apple Music again, just before the expiration date of my subscription. They won... again. :-[ ;D
I'm also very happy with Spotify's 320 kbps sound and can't understand why some people think it's poor. Could it be a bandwidth problem?
Qobuz sounds better than spotify to me. The difference is sufficient to make me prefer qobuz when I can, despite the fact that qobuz is harder to use on my equipment, so I guess I'm not happy with spotify's sound.
The differences are partly to do with the placement of the musicians in the sound stage, but also the timbre. Spotify makes the music sound closer even after I adjust for volume, and I don't like that.
I should say that I'm normally happy with 320kbps mp3 CBR downloads. But spotify is not mp3 and I do not know if the premium is 320kbps (VBR? CBR?)
Quote from: Gordo on December 01, 2015, 06:01:20 AM
I was wondering if I'm deaf and I'm the only person here who thought this way. It's a relief to see at somebody else thinks the same. :)
Didn't mean to give the impression that I thought Spotify sounds bad myself. I've barely used it, so have not been able to form an impression of the sound quality. I was just wondering how 320 kbps could sound so bad as reported by others. Unless some other shenanigans were going on?
Quote from: Daverz on December 01, 2015, 04:55:01 PM
Didn't mean to give the impression that I thought Spotify sounds bad myself. I've barely used it, so have not been able to form an impression of the sound quality. I was just wondering how 320 kbps could sound so bad as reported by others. Unless some other shenanigans were going on?
I'm sorry! I misunderstood you, but I thought your sentence "I wonder why spotify sounds so bad" was an assertion. Of course, it's my fault, what isn't unusual when I don't write in my mother tongue. :)
Quote from: Daverz on December 01, 2015, 04:55:01 PM
Didn't mean to give the impression that I thought Spotify sounds bad myself. I've barely used it, so have not been able to form an impression of the sound quality. I was just wondering how 320 kbps could sound so bad as reported by others. Unless some other shenanigans were going on?
Well, I stream music to my BT speakers (in the den, basement, & portable on the road - none that expensive) usually via my iDevices directly, by Amazon, or by Spotify (on my son's Premium account) - all sound about the same to me, but not sure what my Spotify settings are? Looking at the Spotify app on my iPad Air 2, the settings simply state 'automatic' - as to the need of 320 kbps, most of the MP3 music that I've put on CD-R was burned at 192 or 256 kbps - not to get into a 'serious' discussion, going much above those burn rates is debatable for 'portable' music - Dave :)
Just for the record: I compared Spotify to Apple Music back to back, using the same Internet connection and Premium accounts.
My subjective conclusion was that Apple Music sounds (much) better than Spotify.
In addition, I used my brother -who is a music fan and loyal to Spotify- as a witness and his conclusion was quite the same.
I don't have a clear idea about formats and compressions used by every streaming service because all of them are quite (and unexplainably) mysterious about these issues.
Spotify at 320Kbps is generally good, but I have heard some weird things in some recordings that do not happen in the other services.
There is a recording of the Mozart Requiem, for example, that sounds super weird in Spotify because there is some resonance that the choir triggers that affects Spotify's encoders differently than the other systems. So you hear a really strange beating distortion. It was the Karl Bohm recording on DG, and it's very noticeable on the first track, just as the male choir comes in.
Quote from: psu on December 02, 2015, 12:33:28 PM
Spotify at 320Kbps is generally good, but I have heard some weird things in some recordings that do not happen in the other services.
There is a recording of the Mozart Requiem, for example, that sounds super weird in Spotify because there is some resonance that the choir triggers that affects Spotify's encoders differently than the other systems. So you hear a really strange beating distortion. It was the Karl Bohm recording on DG, and it's very noticeable on the first track, just as the male choir comes in.
Universal has been known to use an audible watermarking on recordings offered to streaming services.
That might be true, but you don't hear it on Apple Music.
Quote from: psu on December 02, 2015, 11:32:38 PM
That might be true, but you don't hear it on Apple Music.
But perhaps some kind of interaction between the watermarking and Spotify's compression algorithm.
Sad news. It's convenient to listen on my computer, even though I'm inside the broadcast range. I'll to dust off my rabbit ears and my receiver too!
https://www.cc-seas.columbia.edu/wkcr/story/important-update-about-online-streaming (https://www.cc-seas.columbia.edu/wkcr/story/important-update-about-online-streaming)
"As of January 1, 2016, WKCR is no longer able to provide online programming. We are in the process of reassessing our ability to stream online and will update you as soon as possible. We regret that we are unable to provide this service. WKCR will continue to broadcast on 89.9 FM and 89.9 HD 1 radio as we work towards a long-term solution. Please address all further questions and concerns you may have to wkcrstreaming@gmail.com -- The WKCR Board"
I guess suspend might be a better word, but I don't know the details.
Wrong forum category, I can't move it!
There's online classical streaming from a Swiss site but I forget where. Maybe someone here can enlighten.
Many classical stations offer online listening: the station in Dayton often has a nice mix, and on Sundays they offer some afternoon programs with 20th-century and contemporary composers, e.g. I have heard a show called Relevant Tones spend an hour on Boulez. 8)
Check the schedule and playlist.
http://www.discoverclassical.org/listen-live.asp (http://www.discoverclassical.org/listen-live.asp)
Now if someone could find out a way to discontinue online sCreaming...! :laugh:
Quote from: 7/4 on January 02, 2016, 12:09:25 PM
Wrong forum category, I can't move it!
No problem. Just for my edification, where is WKCR? :)
8)
Quote from: Cato on January 03, 2016, 04:25:27 AM
Many classical stations offer online listening: the station in Dayton often has a nice mix, and on Sundays they offer some afternoon programs with 20th-century and contemporary composers, e.g. I have heard a show called Relevant Tones spend an hour on Boulez. 8)
Check the schedule and playlist.
http://www.discoverclassical.org/listen-live.asp (http://www.discoverclassical.org/listen-live.asp)
This looks great! The classical radio station I listen to seems to have cut the new music program....a huge shame really. Many fantastic interviews, themed broadcasts and live performances in addition to the usual broadcasting of contemporary music recordings were what I stayed up late on Saturday night for every week when I was a kid. It's like they've taken away part of my childhood.... :(
Quote from: Cato on January 03, 2016, 04:25:27 AM
Many classical stations offer online listening: the station in Dayton often has a nice mix, and on Sundays they offer some afternoon programs with 20th-century and contemporary composers, e.g. I have heard a show called Relevant Tones spend an hour on Boulez. 8)
Check the schedule and playlist.
http://www.discoverclassical.org/listen-live.asp (http://www.discoverclassical.org/listen-live.asp)
Quote from: ComposerOfAvantGarde on January 03, 2016, 08:18:45 PM
This looks great! The classical radio station I listen to seems to have cut the new music program....a huge shame really. Many fantastic interviews, themed broadcasts and live performances in addition to the usual broadcasting of contemporary music recordings were what I stayed up late on Saturday night for every week when I was a kid. It's like they've taken away part of my childhood.... :(
Too often a reality for ratings: the more challenging music is ditched in favor of more "polkas, schottishes, and waltzes." * Happy listening to WDPR of Dayton!
*
(https://img0.etsystatic.com/051/0/9947113/il_570xN.698559564_2z6l.jpg)
Quote from: Gurn Blanston on January 03, 2016, 04:44:30 PM
No problem. Just for my edification, where is WKCR? :)
8)
Columbia University
New York, New York
send email to board@wkcr.org
I just sent something, told them how valuable the streaming service is, mentioned that my late Father was Columbia alumni.
You can do it too. It's just email.
Todays NYTimes: Columbia's WKCR Goes Silent Online (http://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/08/arts/music/columbias-wkcr-goes-silent-online.html?smid=tw-nytimesarts&smtyp=cur&_r=1)
Quote from: 7/4 on January 08, 2016, 06:24:21 AM
Columbia University
New York, New York
send email to board@wkcr.org
I just sent something, told them how valuable the streaming service is, mentioned that my late Father was Columbia alumni.
You can do it too. It's just email.
Todays NYTimes: Columbia's WKCR Goes Silent Online (http://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/08/arts/music/columbias-wkcr-goes-silent-online.html?smid=tw-nytimesarts&smtyp=cur&_r=1)
OK, did it. Don't know if they will buy the part about my father, but it's worth a try... :)
8)
Anyone had experience of googleplay streaming? Is the catalogue big? The reason I'm interested is that I've just bought a Chromecast audio, so I can send it to the Hifi, and it looks as though MDG is streamable - it's not clear.
I've not personally experienced it. I can only tell you that I've seen a lot of good reviews.
The only thing that put me off it was that there wasn't an ongoing free (ad-supported) option - I don't use streaming services enough to want to be in a situation where spending money on a subscription is obligatory. Apart from that, everything else I've read about it has fairly consistently said it's a solid choice.
I should note that the commentary hasn't been focused on classical music.
I now have access to Qubuz, Googleplay and spotify. Googleplay on 14 days free trial. I will update this post as I find new information.
Albums on Spotify or Quobuz but not on Googleplay streaming.
De Labyrintho Josquin Missa Pange Lingue (spotify)
mode Xenakis (spotify)
Jean Charles Ablitzer L'ecole du nord (Qobuz)
Joseph Payne Pachelbel v. 10, 11 (spotify, Qobuz)
Orlando Consort Saracen and Dove (spotify, Qobuz)
Aolus Bach integral with Kooiman (Qobuz)
festetics haydn (spotify Qobuz)
Koopman Novalis (spotify)
Foccroulle complete Bach and Buxtehude (spotify, Qobuz)
gester Bach Partitas (Qobuz)
Olivier Vernet Bach, Buxtehude, Grigny etc
Albums on Googleplay streaming but not on spotify or Qobuz.
tetraktys Chatilly Codex II
Problems with Googleplay. My setup uses an iPad app to stream to a Chromecast audio device.
- You sometimes need to adjust the volume in the app to make a new album play
- It once just refuse to stream to Chromecast for about five minutes
- It once just seemed to chew up the whole wifi network, things reset themselves after a couple of minutes
- The Googleplay app on iPad crashes more frequently than you really want
- The Squeezebox server Chromecast app (chromebridge) sometimes loses the player.
I believe there is a fix for this. I will explore Plex as a upnp server over the next week, it may be more stable. There is no fix. - Using Plex search is not intuitive
- you can't rearrange the order of a playlist, you can only delete tracks
- on iPad, the keyboard in the Googleplay app crashes - you have to restart the tablet /li]
- tagging is sometimes poor - a set of variations may just be tagged "variations" with no other details
General impressions of Googleplay
- Search is fine.
- Sound is good, excellent in fact. Better than spotify and as satisfying as Qobuz
the Quobuz app annoyingly steals the Chromecast stream as soon as it is opened, so searching while listening to something not streamed by quobuz is not possible if you leave the Qobuz app connected to the Chromecast, it automatically makes a connection when it is opened. Very annoying.
[/list]
I have been a Google Music subscriber for the last year. I also find the SQ of it to be more appealing than Spotify. I felt the same (v Spotify) when I had MOG but I have no explanation why. I have some skills and time with Google Play that I do not have with Spotify my comment that search and content seem to be similar are .....this that.
I really hated to see MOG go because of its SQ and my time invested with then. I feel the same way about Google now and I suspect they have the resources keep it going.
Ok, decision made. I have now cancelled my spotify premium subscription and kept Google Play. The sound is so much better than spotify, the search function works, the software is reliable enough and the catalogue is adequate. I supplement it with Qobuz streaming at the moment, though I will revise that in a few months, it may not even be justifiable now. I hope Google will grow their catalogue.
I have learned to make these things work with Logitech Media Server on Windows 10 and a Chromecast Audio. I no longer use squeezebox. For anyone trying the same the important thing to know is to disconnect Googleplay from the Chromecast before streaming from LMS. LMS is the best Chromecast compatible music server I can find at the moment (Plex was hopeless for search!)
If anyone wants to buy some (3) squeezebox classics they can PM me.
Has anyone tried any of the streaming services focused on Classical music?
One would hope the main benefit is that they handle metadata properly (which general services often spectacularly fail with... I still can't get over Spotify's claim that the most popular work by Samuel Barber is The Barber of Seville).
There's Grammofy, there's Idagio. Another one called Melome is only in beta at the moment, not generally available. I had a brief look at Muzik Air which was advertised here on this forum a while back, but personally did not like what I saw.
Sadly, Naxos has shut down ClassicsOnlineHD. However, I could never figure out an easy way to integrate it into my squeezebox-based system.
I'm still using Tidal. They have a huge catalog, with some omissions like Hyperion and ECM. They do not provide any useful way to browse records, so I usually search for things I see in Fanfare or on MusicWeb. They are not consistent: sometimes things are listed by title, artist, conductor or orchestra. Still, I find more than enough new and old stuff to keep me busy.
Quote from: Daverz on February 04, 2017, 01:55:22 PM
They do not provide any useful way to browse records, so I usually search for things I see in Fanfare or on MusicWeb. They are not consistent: sometimes things are listed by title, artist, conductor or orchestra.
This is exactly why I'm specifically asking about services focused on Classical music. Tidal does not fit the bill.
Quote from: ørfeo on February 04, 2017, 03:26:18 PM
This is exactly why I'm specifically asking about services focused on Classical music. Tidal does not fit the bill.
I put up with the limitations because I want at least CD quality. I'd go with Qobuz if the were available in the US.
It feels like you're determined to ignore my question and have your own conversation. Thanks all the same.
Quote from: ørfeo on February 04, 2017, 04:33:15 PM
It feels like you're determined to ignore my question and have your own conversation. Thanks all the same.
Understand the frustration of not getting your original question answered, but was honestly not trying to antagonize you.
I've started to explore Tidal.
Can someone explain the limitations? So far I'm finding mostly everything I could find on spotify that I want, with the exception of the Bibliotheque Nationale de France recordings. But I've inky had it for a day!
Anybody heard of a new premium service called Primephonic? I can't figure out who's behind it.
Just wading into the streaming waters for the first time: I just signed up for a free Spotify acct and am very happy so far. They seem to have a very good selection of classical CDs I want to sample. I think streaming will never replace CDs (or LPs) for me, but I do think it will be very useful in helping me to decide which disks I want to buy.
I am very surprised there are no links to buy CDs from Amazon or wherever--but then again, I suppose that promoting the purchase of CDs/physical media is kind of at odds with the goals of a music streaming business.
Quote from: Mandryka on May 25, 2017, 12:25:10 AM
I've started to explore Tidal.
Can someone explain the limitations? So far I'm finding mostly everything I could find on spotify that I want, with the exception of the Bibliotheque Nationale de France recordings. But I've inky had it for a day!
I'm assuming that you're using the FLAC streaming. How does it compare with Spotify premium?
Quote from: Brian on June 14, 2017, 01:38:16 PM
Anybody heard of a new premium service called Primephonic? I can't figure out who's behind it.
I've been using Primephonic for a while to download hi res music. Very recently they have started their streaming services (CD quality) as well.
They offer classical music only, so browsing/search facilities are very well tuned for classical music. They also have a very good choice of labels but no majors (Universal, Warner).
They are based in the EU, the Netherlands. One of the founder/executive director and the platform manager are from Pentatone, so I guess there could be a strong relationship between the two companies.
Quote from: Holden on June 15, 2017, 02:09:40 AM
I'm assuming that you're using the FLAC streaming. How does it compare with Spotify premium?
The sound on tidal Flac is much much better than the sound on spotify premium, the classical catalogue is not quite as good. I've abandoned spotify mainly because we expect the software which makes the link to the Logitech squeezebox will be disabled some time this year. I now use Tidal and Qobuz.
The tagging on tidal seems particularly poor, but it's not a deal breaker.
Based on the comments in this thread I downloaded the premium version of Tidal for a sample while I waited at the airport for my flight. I've always been of the opinion that you can't really hear the difference between 320kbps MP3 and FLAC. Well, I stand corrected. A quick A/B comparison between three different recordings brought this to light. I used the Golub/Kaplan/Carr Schubert piano trios, Anima Eterna's Carmina Burana and Deadmau5's "Album Title Goes Here".
All have excellent modern sound and I could definitely hear quite a difference but quantifying it is a little bit harder. The downside is that Tidal's premium service is three times the price of Spotify's. Something to ponder when the months free trial runs out.
Quote from: Holden on June 16, 2017, 03:07:12 PM
Based on the comments in this thread I downloaded the premium version of Tidal for a sample while I waited at the airport for my flight. I've always been of the opinion that you can't really hear the difference between 320kbps MP3 and FLAC. Well, I stand corrected. A quick A/B comparison between three different recordings brought this to light. I used the Golub/Kaplan/Carr Schubert piano trios, Anima Eterna's Carmina Burana and Deadmau5's "Album Title Goes Here".
All have excellent modern sound and I could definitely hear quite a difference but quantifying it is a little bit harder. The downside is that Tidal's premium service is three times the price of Spotify's. Something to ponder when the months free trial runs out.
Spotify doesn't play 320kbps MP3.
The latest problem on Tidal is albums with mixed up track order. You get a weird interleaving of tracks from different works.
Quote from: Daverz on June 16, 2017, 09:06:06 PM
The latest problem on Tidal is albums with mixed up track order. You get a weird interleaving of tracks from different works.
I've had that happen just once, with Chiaroscuro Quartet's Haydn. and it is indeed annoying, but the way I listen (with a tablet interface) it was easily correctable.
Quote from: Mandryka on June 16, 2017, 08:29:09 PM
Spotify doesn't play 320kbps MP3.
They use Ogg Vorbis according to their site. Is the codec noticeably worse than MP3 at the same rate?
https://support.spotify.com/us/using_spotify/search_play/what-bitrate-does-spotify-use-for-streaming/
Quote from: Mandryka on June 16, 2017, 09:09:51 PM
I've had that happen just once, with Chiaroscuro Quartet's Haydn. and it is indeed annoying, but the way I listen (with a tablet interface) it was easily correctable.
I've seen it on dozens of albums in the last few months.
Quote from: Daverz on June 16, 2017, 09:25:54 PM
They use Ogg Vorbis according to their site. Is the codec noticeably worse than MP3 at the same rate?
https://support.spotify.com/us/using_spotify/search_play/what-bitrate-does-spotify-use-for-streaming/
The problem's more likely to do with spotify's equalisation, dynamic range, and maybe their source files.
Quote from: Daverz on June 16, 2017, 09:28:22 PM
I've seen it on dozens of albums in the last few months.
I'm sure you have, I just came across it for a second time!
Quote from: Mandryka on June 16, 2017, 08:29:09 PM
Spotify doesn't play 320kbps MP3.
That's interesting, I assumed it was MP3. At what rate does Ogg Vorbis operate on their premium site?
Quote from: Holden on June 18, 2017, 01:50:26 PM
That's interesting, I assumed it was MP3. At what rate does Ogg Vorbis operate on their premium site?
320kbps VBR I think.
In November 2017 ECM announced that its entire catalog would be available to most streaming services. This represented a 180 degree turnaround from their previous stance of not allowing any of their recordings to be available via streaming services.
Welcome news, imo.
They added, that while they are still primarily dedicated to the CD and LP formats, their highest priority is for the music to be heard.
Wonderful news, and something I have hoped would happen for as long as streaming has existed.
:)
Ogg Vorbis vs. MP3
http://www.differencebetween.net/technology/difference-between-ogg-and-mp3/
That's about how efficient each format is (OGG is slightly more efficient than MP3 - ie, compresses more) but not really about how they sound (probable answer - the same).
I think when someone hears a difference between Tidal FLAC and Spotify OGG, what they may be hearing is a difference between Tidal and Spotify - but not necessarily a difference between FLAC and OGG.
Quote from: aukhawk on February 13, 2018, 12:59:05 AM
That's about how efficient each format is (OGG is slightly more efficient than MP3 - ie, compresses more) but not really about how they sound (probable answer - the same).
I think when someone hears a difference between Tidal FLAC and Spotify OGG, what they may be hearing is a difference between Tidal and Spotify - but not necessarily a difference between FLAC and OGG.
So what is it that spotify has done to the music file which makes them sound so much less good?
Quote from: aukhawk on February 13, 2018, 12:59:05 AM
That's about how efficient each format is (OGG is slightly more efficient than MP3 - ie, compresses more) but not really about how they sound (probable answer - the same).
I think when someone hears a difference between Tidal FLAC and Spotify OGG, what they may be hearing is a difference between Tidal and Spotify - but not necessarily a difference between FLAC and OGG.
OGG is a container format. FLAC is a lossless audio format. OGG on its own is meaningless without knowing what format the audio stream within it actually is.
If the audio stream is Ogg Vorbis then it's lossy. Which immediately presents a reason why it might not sound as good as a lossless format.
Quote from: ørfeo on February 16, 2018, 12:05:40 AM
OGG is a container format. FLAC is a lossless audio format. OGG on its own is meaningless without knowing what format the audio stream within it actually is.
If the audio stream is Ogg Vorbis then it's lossy. Which immediately presents a reason why it might not sound as good as a lossless format.
Spotify uses Ogg Vorbis for their desktop app and MP3 for mobile devices and (IIRC) their web-based player.
Ogg-FLAC never really took off — I never could see the advantage of that over plain FLAC — and the other codecs that can go into an ogg container are all lossy.
Of course all of this is in flux. I wouldn't be surprised if they eventually transition to Opus for everything.
I thought there was a more recent thread than this, but if so I can't find it.
Has anyone been making use of either Idagio or Primephonic?
Both of them look promising for me, just because the endless nightmare of "guess the metadata" can be dispensed with. You can search for composers and find lists of works and recordings. Each of them differs slightly in how results are presented, but on Idagio you'll get things like recording dates quite readily and can filter by genre (orchestral, chamber etc), and on Primephonic for some composers you can even sort works by opus rather than popularity or alphabetical.
I haven't tried playing anything on either of them yet, but search is so often the real bugbear with other services not dedicated to classical, so this is kind of exciting for the way I explore new music.
Actually playing something (free/trial service only so far) is also exciting, because both companies fully understand the difference between playing an album and playing a work. If you search by work, both services will very easily say that you want to play that work. If you want to play the whole album, they also show you the album that it comes from and you can go there and choose to play the album as a whole.
Free/trial versions differ somewhat: Primephonic has 14-day trial but appears to have pretty full functionality within that trial. Idagio instead has a free version, but with limits on functionality similar to Spotify, in that you can play exactly what you want on a desktop computer but are restricted to a kind of 'radio' if you choose something on the mobile app version.
Primephonic is also slightly cheaper (noting that I think I won't have a choice to continue using for free), and looks to have a larger library. Idagio has some other special features like exclusive live recordings.
I'm leaning towards Primephonic slightly, but either of these looks pretty darn good and, if all you want is classical, streets ahead of stumbling through the jumble of results and metadata you get on the more general streaming services.
Quote from: Madiel on April 10, 2020, 05:25:19 PM
Has anyone been making use of either Idagio or Primephonic?
Thread resurrection time! I've used both. I agree with you that they have superior searching and browsing. They also have superior curation. Special live streams... and they provide better royalties to the artists and labels than the other streaming services do. If I know exactly what I want to listen to I can find it fast in Spotify or Qobuz. But if I have no idea it would take me along time to find something on those services, but on Primephonic or Idagio I would find something interesting and off my radar in a matter of minutes if not seconds.
I ended up subscribing to Primephonic. Yes, the curation is definitely a plus. They give you a variety of ways of just checking out various things.
They do have mistakes in the cataloguing (partly because they're relying on so much metadata given to them by record companies), but another good thing is that they respond quite quickly if I point any errors out.
I've put 3 of my friends onto it and they're all just as happy as I am to discover that such a service exists.
Quote from: Madiel on April 10, 2020, 06:16:48 PM
Actually playing something (free/trial service only so far) is also exciting, because both companies fully understand the difference between playing an album and playing a work.
The LMS plugin for Qobuz allows you to browse and play individual works on an album. Not all classical albums have this metadata, but most do.
Qobuz isn't available in Australia.
Quote from: Madiel on January 27, 2021, 02:06:24 PM
Qobuz isn't available in Australia.
Oops, I forgot to check on availability for our Australian members.
Quote from: Daverz on January 27, 2021, 02:16:11 PM
Oops, I forgot to check on availability for our Australian members.
Oh don't be silly. You were replying to an Australian. And as an Australian, I'm simply informing you that the LMS plugin for Qobuz is of no help to me personally.
Quote from: Madiel on January 27, 2021, 02:36:54 PM
Oh don't be silly. You were replying to an Australian. And as an Australian, I'm simply informing you that the LMS plugin for Qobuz is of no help to me personally.
NP, I was just being silly.
Quote from: Madiel on January 27, 2021, 01:38:07 PM
I ended up subscribing to Primephonic. Yes, the curation is definitely a plus. They give you a variety of ways of just checking out various things.
They do have mistakes in the cataloguing (partly because they're relying on so much metadata given to them by record companies), but another good thing is that they respond quite quickly if I point any errors out.
I've put 3 of my friends onto it and they're all just as happy as I am to discover that such a service exists.
Nice! I just wish they had a desktop app.
I did a free trial of Primephonic. The SQ was, according to their website, at platinum level. In other words 24 bit FLAC.
During the trial, I listened to tracks on Primephonic that I also have on CD (and have ripped to level 5 FLAC). I could hear a very discernible difference between the streamed and ripped tracks and it wasn't Primephonic that won out. The ripped tracks had a greater dynamic range and were tonally more accurate, especially from a clarity point of view. Spaciality and instrument separation were more pronounced. What concerned me was that these were not miniscule differences, they were very noticeable.
Primephonic emailed me after the trial and asked me to complete a survey which I did. I was blunt but polite.
I canceled Tidal in 2019 after it dropped a big number of its MQA tracks, some of which were stunning. What I would like to get is Qobuz but it's not available here in Australia. I'm not sure why.
What Qobuz has that Primephonic does not is the dedicated app that allows you to use enabled wasapi exclusive mode and bypass the processing that Windows does. If you use a Mac not a problem but if you don't, it could have been. But don't discount the FAR MORE LIKELY explanation that the master of the recording you used for streaming had dynamic range compression. It is common. With the same master playing two flacs through the same dac connected to asynchronous usb the results should be the same. The rest is expectation bias.
Quote from: DavidW on January 28, 2021, 05:37:23 AM
What Qobuz has that Primephonic does not is the dedicated app that allows you to use enabled wasapi exclusive mode and bypass the processing that Windows does. If you use a Mac not a problem but if you don't, it could have been. But don't discount the FAR MORE LIKELY explanation that the master of the recording you used for streaming had dynamic range compression. It is common. With the same master playing two flacs through the same dac connected to asynchronous usb the results should be the same. The rest is expectation bias.
OK that makes sense based on what I heard but why compress the dynamic range?
Quote from: Holden on January 28, 2021, 05:55:27 PM
OK that makes sense based on what I heard but why compress the dynamic range?
I wish I knew. I thought that classical music was immune to the loudness war but it's not 100% true. I just listened to a recording that should sound dynamic and vibrant but it was as compressed as modern pop music. And I have a feeling that on cd or vinyl it would have that dynamic range.
IF it's the case (that streamed music is more likely to be audio-compressed) - and I'm not convinced personally - then the simple response is that, outside of dedicated listening environments and situations, compression helps the music sound better. And the streaming companies probably assume that most listening is done in sub-optimal environments. Of course we (minority) who prefer to listen to music in the way that we do, are the losers in this.
I am currently giving a go at Primephonic trial period and Idagio Free to compare availability and usability against my past use of Qobuz.
Under the subscription plans for the former two, can you actually do a search by Label or by composer + Label at all please ?
That doesn't seem to work on the trial/free versions. For instance, if I do a search for "Bax Chandos", Idagio lists nothing and Primephonic lists only one album that has nothing to do with Bax or Chandos. Not an option under "Browse" either by the looks of it. Such search seem to work if you combine Composer + Artist though (e.g. Debussy Rogé).
It's a personal preference but I much prefer the multiple large cover display for searches rather than a long list to scroll down too (and if you click on an album and go back, it takes you back to the top of the albums list - that's annoying - I have not seen any options to change a layout either ? Does that exist within the plans for either ? (In both cases, I am talking about the Web player on the laptop btw).
Not one solution will be absolutely perfect, I agree, but I just wondered on the above as it was something I found efficient and comfortable under Qobuz.
That said, the full listing by works on Idagio for instance has its benefits.
I did a search for Bax Chandos on Qobuz and came up with this:
Looks like Qobuz has more robust searching.
Quote from: Papy Oli on February 07, 2021, 02:22:19 PM
I am currently giving a go at Primephonic trial period and Idagio Free to compare availability and usability against my past use of Qobuz.
Under the subscription plans for the former two, can you actually do a search by Label or by composer + Label at all please ?
That doesn't seem to work on the trial/free versions. For instance, if I do a search for "Bax Chandos", Idagio lists nothing and Primephonic lists only one album that has nothing to do with Bax or Chandos. Not an option under "Browse" either by the looks of it. Such search seem to work if you combine Composer + Artist though (e.g. Debussy Rogé).
It's a personal preference but I much prefer the multiple large cover display for searches rather than a long list to scroll down too (and if you click on an album and go back, it takes you back to the top of the albums list - that's annoying - I have not seen any options to change a layout either ? Does that exist within the plans for either ? (In both cases, I am talking about the Web player on the laptop btw).
Not one solution will be absolutely perfect, I agree, but I just wondered on the above as it was something I found efficient and comfortable under Qobuz.
That said, the full listing by works on Idagio for instance has its benefits.
As far as I'm aware record label is not one of the things Primephonic has for searching.
You could ask them though. You'll get a response.
Quote from: Madiel on January 27, 2021, 02:06:24 PM
Qobuz isn't available in Australia.
Hello Madiel
Qobuz is now available in Australia and I'm listening as I type. Very impressed so far, especially for classical music. You can do a one month free trial which is what I'm on. Choice of three different SQ levels. I stuck with 16bit/44.1 because I don't think I'd really be able to hear the difference from anything higher.
Quote from: Holden on April 16, 2021, 04:39:30 PM
Hello Madiel
Qobuz is now available in Australia and I'm listening as I type. Very impressed so far, especially for classical music. You can do a one month free trial which is what I'm on. Choice of three different SQ levels. I stuck with 16bit/44.1 because I don't think I'd really be able to hear the difference from anything higher.
Well, that is a great sign. I hope that means that Qobuz availability in Canada is down the road soon.
Quote from: Holden on April 16, 2021, 04:39:30 PM
Hello Madiel
Qobuz is now available in Australia and I'm listening as I type. Very impressed so far, especially for classical music. You can do a one month free trial which is what I'm on. Choice of three different SQ levels. I stuck with 16bit/44.1 because I don't think I'd really be able to hear the difference from anything higher.
Good to know, thanks. I'm not currently minded to depart from Primephonic (despite one annoying recent change), but maybe one day if I want to see again whether a single service can combine pop and classical satisfactorily I'll take a look.
The higher price means I wouldn't actually save much if I replaced Primephonic (classical) and Deezer (pop) with Qobuz. A little cheaper, but not a lot.
I bought the yearly subscription to Qobuz and opted for the highest resolution. Really great as I can now listen to pretty much everything without buying another CD.
Quote from: flyingdutchman on April 18, 2021, 08:54:58 PM
I bought the yearly subscription to Qobuz and opted for the highest resolution. Really great as I can now listen to pretty much everything without buying another CD.
But, as with your own collection, you're limited to what they actually have on their website. If don't have much of a classical collection and you don't want to break the bank, then, yes, ultimately going the Qobuz route will expose you to a lot of music. It seems that I bought the bulk of the classical collection at the right time, but I still find something every now and then that I'd like pick up like, for example, the recent Strauss splurge I made.
Quote from: Mirror Image on April 18, 2021, 09:18:47 PM
But, as with your own collection, you're limited to what they actually have on their website. If don't have much of a classical collection and you don't want to break the bank, then, yes, ultimately going the Qobuz route will expose you to a lot of music. It seems that I bought the bulk of the classical collection at the right time, but I still find something every now and then that I'd like pick up like, for example, the recent Strauss splurge I made.
Well, I have well over 10,000 cds now in all my years of collecting, so I'm pretty well set. That said, my physical purchases are moving to vinyl.
Currently in the process of discovering that 1 Schubert piano sonata cycle I'm interested in doesn't exist online, and another 1 only about a third of it exists online.
The promise of millions of albums is all very well, but it's a pain in the butt when you actually want particular albums and there's apparently no way to hear even a sample. There are some major record labels that have just never organised themselves to do the work of going back through the collection in a systematic manner.
Quote from: Madiel on January 27, 2021, 02:06:24 PM
Qobuz isn't available in Australia.
I understand from the earlier posts that this has now changed. Generally, they seem to be expanding now into several European countries also, including Denmark.
Quote from: MusicTurner on April 18, 2021, 10:08:01 PM
I understand from the earlier posts that this has now changed. Generally, they seem to be expanding now into several European countries also, including Denmark.
Apparently the recent expansion was Australia, New Zealand, Sweden, Norway, Denmark and Finland.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/marksparrow/2021/04/15/hi-res-streaming-service-qobuz-launches-in-australia-new-zealand-and-scandinavia/?sh=352186232196
According to an email received today, Apple Music has bought Primephonic, which will cease in its current form on 7th Sept and reopen within Apple at some point in the new year.
I had made my mind up recently to join Primephonic (after enjoying my 2nd month out of 4 at a reduced price trial and getting used to it) and was considering continuing with a yearly subscription then on. I spent the last week creating large playlists with Cantatas cycles and Baroque composers to explore and now it buggers off for 3 months+ and then to Apple.
After my inadequate experience with Qobuz, now this.
Full streaming can do one.
Olivier you seem to keep having bad times with streaming. Apple has a lossless version now. Have you tried going directly to their service and giving it a shot? At least for the time being?
Quote from: Papy Oli on August 30, 2021, 01:19:12 PM
According to an email received today, Apple Music has bought Primephonic, which will cease in its current form on 7th Sept and reopen within Apple at some point in the new year.
WHAT THE FUCK?
*checks email*
My initial reaction is that this is a fucking disaster.
EDIT: Apparently the plan is to launch a dedicated classical music app. Which means... the whole e-mail blurb of reaching people who listen to both does what, exactly?
But I at least know that Apple kind of cares about classical music metadata, which is the crucial issue. More recent material on iTunes is much, much better than a lot of other sources in having useful metadata.
I'll probably try the Apple Music thing... right after copying my entire iTunes Library to another folder in case things go arse up when I sign up. Or I could just go start using Idagio.
I think that this is actually a big win for classical music listeners. Here me out...
Ever since the rise of the mp3 we've been dealing with a tagging system that was developed almost exclusively for popular music. It has been a pervasive problem for us when ripping cds, buying digital downloads, and searching streaming services. At no point has a major company showed any interest in addressing the problem.
Now tagging has improved a bit (but not a lot). And the rise of these small services (Idagio and Primephonic) that cater towards conquering that problem is great... but they are small and honestly you can feel it. Their apps have long standing problems and generally suffer from a lack of polish.
Apple wanting to launch a classical music service is the first time that a major company has genuinely acknowledged us and wants to make our experience a good one. And with the resources of Apple all the little problems and lack of features that Primephonic has will go away.
In a year from now I wouldn't be surprised if all of us streamers end up switching to this new service. I wouldn't be surprised if other major players (e.g. Spotify) announce similar plans.
Quote from: DavidW on August 31, 2021, 03:17:34 AM
I think that this is actually a big win for classical music listeners. Here me out...
Ever since the rise of the mp3 we've been dealing with a tagging system that was developed almost exclusively for popular music. It has been a pervasive problem for us when ripping cds, buying digital downloads, and searching streaming services. At no point has a major company showed any interest in addressing the problem.
Now tagging has improved a bit (but not a lot). And the rise of these small services (Idagio and Primephonic) that cater towards conquering that problem is great... but they are small and honestly you can feel it. Their apps have long standing problems and generally suffer from a lack of polish.
Apple wanting to launch a classical music service is the first time that a major company has genuinely acknowledged us and wants to make our experience a good one. And with the resources of Apple all the little problems and lack of features that Primephonic has will go away.
In a year from now I wouldn't be surprised if all of us streamers end up switching to this new service. I wouldn't be surprised if other major players (e.g. Spotify) announce similar plans.
There is at least a possibility that it will work out well in this way. As I already mentioned, Apple have shown within iTunes at least some interest in getting tagging a bit better, so I do have some hope that their intention is to get tagging to work. And Primephonic clearly cared about this. They had metadata problems in their database, yes, but they would always respond if I pointed one out**, and basically their starting point has to be the metadata they're provided, which for older releases was often questionable, because doing it all manually is too big a job.
But against that I will make the following two observations.
First, I would dispute the notion that Primephonic as an app is somehow less polished than what Apple will offer. Apple has made a complete hash of its Podcasts app, to the point where I've actively avoided updating iOS on my iPhone to avoid encountering the massive problems that users have been complaining about. With Primephonic I would see evidence of them working on it and improving it, and problems with its reliability were infrequent. I really don't see any guarantee that Apple won't stuff this up. They might get it right, yes, but I wouldn't bet my house on it.
Second, it mystifies me why Apple's first move is to shut down the existing app. If there was an announcement that Primephonic customers would move to Apple Music once the promised classical service was built, I would understand that. But instead, I'm being moved onto the current Apple Music - the Apple Music that they're basically acknowledging is
currently deficient when it comes to classical music. Sure, I'm getting it for free (it turns out I get 9 months free because I get a 3 month trial before the Primephonic offer of 6 months starts), but essentially they're giving me until sometime "early" next year to identify my dissatisfaction with the current Apple Music's ability to handle classical and go play with Idagio instead.
There wasn't much of a margin when I initially decided to go with Primephonic instead of Idagio. I liked Primephonic a fraction better, but it's not as if I hated Idagio. Now, I get to do a comparison between current Apple Music and Idagio, not future-classical-specialist Apple Music and Idagio. They're asking me to assess Apple
wanting to launch a classical music service, rather than Apple actually having a classical music service. They're telling me to trade in a service that I knew and used for a promise of a service somewhere down the track. And that just seems extraordinarily dumb.
**Another negative is that I basically have zero hope of Apple Music customer support ever being anywhere near as responsive as Primephonic was.
I haven't tried a streaming service before. Out of curiosity, what are the bit rate/streaming options currently available via Apple and also via Qobuz?
PD
Quote from: Pohjolas Daughter on August 31, 2021, 04:29:36 AM
I haven't tried a streaming service before. Out of curiosity, what are the bit rate/streaming options currently available via Apple and also via Qobuz?
PD
Qobuz offers a lossy and a lossless plan. The lossless plan also supports hd audio if you think you can hear the difference. Apple offers a lossless plan. I might be mistaken but I don't think they have multiple tiers.
Madiel I've had problems with both Primephonic and Idagio. One of them doesn't support basic features like making playlists or correctly auto-resuming. Another crashes frequently. I don't remember which is which, but both felt like they were in beta stage and they never got better. It could be an Android thing but since 80% of the world uses Android that is unacceptable.
Also one of the two never launched a dedicated pc app (at least while I used it). One of the few streaming services I can think of that does not.
But if you use Spotify, Qobuz, Amazon or Apple those apps are polished and they just work well. I don't know anything about podcasts but Apple is big enough that I doubt it is the same dev team on podcasts as on Music. I do agree with you that is stupid to immediately pull the plug on Primephonic. They should have at least left a skeleton support team on the original service while they switched over to the Apple umbrella.
Quote from: DavidW on August 31, 2021, 09:16:57 AM
Qobuz offers a lossy and a lossless plan. The lossless plan also supports hd audio if you think you can hear the difference. Apple offers a lossless plan. I might be mistaken but I don't think they have multiple tiers.
Thanks for the info! :)
OlivierYou might want to save your music lists that you had prepared. Perhaps, either copy and paste to Text/Word or take some screen shots of them?
PD
I just tried a fairly simple experiment, looking for Mozart's symphony no.12.
Typing "mozart symphony 12" into both Primephonic and Idagio readily obtained the relevant work amongst the very top results.
Apple Music? Not a chance. It figured out that I probably wanted Mozart and symphonies, but I scrolled and scrolled looking for any sign that any of the offered albums or "songs" represented the symphony I wanted, instead of one of the more common recordings of his later masterpieces. Nope.
I actually got far better results on Deezer, which I subscribe to and which I used to use for everything pre-Primephonic. I still use it for pop music, and sometimes for classical albums that I can't find on Primephonic. The classical metadata is quite hit and miss, but hell, just then it did miles better than Apple. Not every hit near the top of the results was right, but I still did find several recordings between the albums, tracks and playlists without scrolling down off the first page.
An experience like that gives me zero incentive to make much use of my free Apple account. I can keep using Deezer without constantly having to say, no, don't mix up my personal iTunes library into your own music library. And for classical I can either muddle through Deezer with strategic searching like I used to, or go take the money I used to spend on Primephonic and subscribe to Idagio. I suspect I might rapidly do the latter.
Quote from: Pohjolas Daughter on August 31, 2021, 04:29:36 AM
I haven't tried a streaming service before. Out of curiosity, what are the bit rate/streaming options currently available via Apple and also via Qobuz?
PD
Hi PD
I now use Spotify pretty much exclusively, apart from the downloads that I already have (which stands at a large number of digitised recordings to be fair). I use their paid service and stream at 320Kbps, which is CD quality, I think. You can agree to set lower than that to save on data if you wish, of course. I was using 160 kbps for some time, which obvs wasn't as good. No extra cost for the jump in quality from Spotify, apart from what it might mean to your data streaming plan from your cellular or wifi provider. My plan is pretty much unlimited, and I tend to connect my phone to wifi anyway, so no big deal. The standard paid plan lets you connect up to 5 different accounts included in the cost, so it is pretty good. About £15 monthly, I think? Something like that. Works for us, and we've never had any issues.
Quote from: foxandpeng on September 02, 2021, 05:37:44 AM
I use their paid service and stream at 320Kbps, which is CD quality, I think.
"CD quality" is ~1400 kbps (*), so technically bitrate-wise 320 kbps isn't even close to "CD quality", but in
practice it is next to impossible to tell apart from "CD quality".
(*) 44100 samples per second per channel x 2 channels x 16 bits per sample = 1 411 200 bits per second.
Yeah I don't think any services call mp3 "cd quality" anymore now that lossless flac streaming has became so prevalent.
Quote from: foxandpeng on September 02, 2021, 05:37:44 AM
Hi PD
I now use Spotify pretty much exclusively, apart from the downloads that I already have (which stands at a large number of digitised recordings to be fair). I use their paid service and stream at 320Kbps, which is CD quality, I think. You can agree to set lower than that to save on data if you wish, of course. I was using 160 kbps for some time, which obvs wasn't as good. No extra cost for the jump in quality from Spotify, apart from what it might mean to your data streaming plan from your cellular or wifi provider. My plan is pretty much unlimited, and I tend to connect my phone to wifi anyway, so no big deal. The standard paid plan lets you connect up to 5 different accounts included in the cost, so it is pretty good. About £15 monthly, I think? Something like that. Works for us, and we've never had any issues.
Thank you for the info Fox! :)
PD
Quote from: 71 dB on September 02, 2021, 07:09:29 AM
in practice it is next to impossible to tell apart from "CD quality".
Works for me. There comes a certain point where quality looks amazing on a digital display or in an advertising spec, but as far as the average human ear is concerned, it no longer really matters.
I am delighted for those who have above average hearing, but I don't share that blessing, sadly 🙂
It's not really a blessing. Imagine if you had 'above average' eyesight and could see infra-red. You'd have to wear special glasses all the time to filter it out.
Quote from: aukhawk on September 03, 2021, 12:23:04 AM
It's not really a blessing. Imagine if you had 'above average' eyesight and could see infra-red. You'd have to wear special glasses all the time to filter it out.
I guess. Be careful what you wish for, I suppose.
Quote from: aukhawk on September 03, 2021, 12:23:04 AM
It's not really a blessing. Imagine if you had 'above average' eyesight and could see infra-red. You'd have to wear special glasses all the time to filter it out.
Your analogy would make sense if you were talking about hearing ultrasound, but Fox is talking about lossless vs lossy (at the same frequency range). He is saying that he can't hear the compression artifacts (which at high bitrates most people can't unless they are trained to hear it).
A more appropriate analogy would be to be able to see the compression artifacts in a Netflix stream because you know what to look for. Not having superhuman sight all the time.
Quote from: aukhawk on September 03, 2021, 12:23:04 AM
It's not really a blessing. Imagine if you had 'above average' eyesight and could see infra-red. You'd have to wear special glasses all the time to filter it out.
Why would you want to filter out infra-red sight? You'd know the temperature of things by just looking. 8)
You'd know it constantly whether you wanted to or not. Walls wouldn't work as intended. Etc etc.
Bumping this thread after seven months to ask if anyone has a recommendation of Idagio vs. Qobuz. It looks like Qobuz has updated or altered its plans/tiers since the last discussion last year.
On the surface I see the following major differences:
- Idagio has a library of live concert videos/streams
- Qobuz has discounts on download-to-buy (in the higher tier plan)
- Qobuz has all the other musical genres in addition to classical
I plan to use whichever app on both Mac and Android devices. (I'm a monster. ;D ) Playlists would be nice but are not essential. Listening offline (or "save to stream later") is definitely important for the mobile app.
Are there major differences in label choice? Qobuz allows you to poke around the collection before buying, and I am very impressed with the obscure out-of-print stuff they have from labels like Supraphon and Pablo (for jazz). But there's no Hyperion.
In Idagio you have to pay more for the tier with the concerts, or pay a la carte from the mid-tier. But the neat part is that 80% of the revenue from ticket sales go to the artists.
Both support playlists and offline listening. The search engine works well for both, but browsing is definitely better on Idagio.
I find that the key difference is that Qobuz heavily curates new releases. Even when you search for something to listen to the more recent releases are featured as the most popular. Idagio curates new releases but also show love to the classics.
You will not find Hyperion anywhere.
I'm pretty happy with Idagio. In some ways I think it's actually better than Primephonic was before it died - arguably more effective searching on an iPhone, though my friend with a Samsung phone discovered she wasn't getting the same functionality of fast searching as you type that I was.
But I can't compare because Qobuz wasn't available to me for so long that I never tried it. My alternate is Deezer (including for classical labels missing from Idagio. One I'm aware of is Supraphon)
Quote from: Madiel on April 09, 2022, 02:46:09 PM
You will not find Hyperion anywhere.
I'm pretty happy with Idagio. In some ways I think it's actually better than Primephonic was before it died - arguably more effective searching on an iPhone, though my friend with a Samsung phone discovered she wasn't getting the same functionality of fast searching as you type that I was.
But I can't compare because Qobuz wasn't available to me for so long that I never tried it. My alternate is Deezer (including for classical labels missing from Idagio. One I'm aware of is Supraphon)
I can report that Qobuz/US has a very deep Supraphon catalog. They even have multiple older issues of the same recordings, if for some reason you are nostalgic for the old Supraphon Crystal Collection.
I do wonder how something like Qobuz handles classical metadata, as a service not dedicated to classical. Does it have composer pages akin to artist pages? Idagio has both. I can readily go to a composer's page and then search/filter their works or albums that include that composer.
This to me was one of the huge benefits of Primephonic and Idagio, understanding that classical metadata is not just about title and artist. Which is also why the closure of Primephonic was a tragedy, Apple Music is one of the very WORST services at handling a search for a classical work. Apple Classical is yet to turn up.
Frankly, having a bigger catalogue is of no practical use if you can't actually find the recording you're hoping is available.
Edit: I can find multiple articles all indicating that Qobuz is better at classical metadata than any other generalist streaming service (and agreeing with me that Apple is appalling). But those articles also tend to say that (as of a year or so ago when Primephonic was still alive) Idagio had the best search functionality of anyone. So the question still stands. How good is Qobuz going to be at enabling me to find a recording of a relatively obscure Beethoven or Mozart piece that I'm curious about hearing? Because if it can't point me to the right piece and I have to scroll past famous Beethoven or Mozart indefinitely, it's not good enough.
Quote from: Madiel on April 09, 2022, 03:31:58 PM
I do wonder how something like Qobuz handles classical metadata, as a service not dedicated to classical. Does it have composer pages akin to artist pages? Idagio has both. I can readily go to a composer's page and then search/filter their works or albums that include that composer.
This to me was one of the huge benefits of Primephonic and Idagio, understanding that classical metadata is not just about title and artist. Which is also why the closure of Primephonic was a tragedy, Apple Music is one of the very WORST services at handling a search for a classical work. Apple Classical is yet to turn up.
Frankly, having a bigger catalogue is of no practical use if you can't actually find the recording you're hoping is available.
Composer pages on Qobuz are just artist pages, nothing special there, though the metadata does specify composer and does include work title where available. The Qobuz web interface doesn't let you play works as a single unit, but the Logitech Media Server plugin for Qobuz does (when the metadata for this is available).
Searching for specific works on Qobuz like "Mozart oboe quartet" immediately comes up with all relevant titles unlike Spotify or Apple.
But you can't browse by composer like you can on Idagio. So Madiel I think you have the right of it, Qobuz is a big step up from the major players but not in the Idagio/Primephonic territory. And I think that can be a problem because you don't know what you don't know. If I listened to Mozart's clarinet concerto and liked it, on Idagio I would almost immediately also find the clarinet quintet just by browsing. I wouldn't have that discovery on Qobuz.
I have used the Qobuz download store before to make purchases. Don't know if its interface is identical to the streaming one, but on the Qobuz download store it is relatively easy to turn up what you want in search. For example, I just decided to find JoAnn Falletta's "Fantastic Scherzo" as an example and searched "Buffalo Suk" and it came right up.
Summarizing the differences you guys have described so far:
- Qobuz browsing is heavily curated towards new releases.
- Qobuz does not let you play a multi-track piece as a single unit, though it lets you play albums or create playlists.
- Idagio has even more thorough metadata and track naming (Qobuz is also good but not as good).
- Idagio does not stock some of the best indie labels.
Accurate?
Quote from: Brian on April 09, 2022, 11:43:31 AM
Bumping this thread after seven months to ask if anyone has a recommendation of Idagio vs. Qobuz. It looks like Qobuz has updated or altered its plans/tiers since the last discussion last year.
On the surface I see the following major differences:
- Idagio has a library of live concert videos/streams
- Qobuz has discounts on download-to-buy (in the higher tier plan)
- Qobuz has all the other musical genres in addition to classical
I plan to use whichever app on both Mac and Android devices. (I'm a monster. ;D ) Playlists would be nice but are not essential. Listening offline (or "save to stream later") is definitely important for the mobile app.
Are there major differences in label choice? Qobuz allows you to poke around the collection before buying, and I am very impressed with the obscure out-of-print stuff they have from labels like Supraphon and Pablo (for jazz). But there's no Hyperion.
Brian,
I have been using Idagio since November last year and Qobuz in the past. A few random thoughts for your consideration:
* I mostly use Adagio via their web browser on Windows/Opera and sometimes via their Android phone app (more on the latter further down).
* Search working fine for my use. I have grown much keener on Idagio's by work (e.g. by a specific BWV number) or browsing albums by a specific artist/performer. That said, Qobuz worked fine in general too and where it had the upper hand was searching specifically for a Label (e.g. Holst + Lyrita). There is no Label parameter on Idagio. Overall though, I have rarely come unstuck on Idagio. YMMV of course, subject to more specific labels or recordings.
* One small annoyance on Idagio: When e.g. you search for Herreweghe, then his Albums, it displays all his recordings in a scroll page. If you browse, say, halfway down that list, click an album to look at details and add to your favourites and click BACK to return to the recordings list, it takes you back to the top of the listing. One workaround is to open the album in a new tab (in the browser that is) and keep the listing where it is in the original tab.
Weirdly, in the app, the search results sometimes appear in a continuous loop ???
* Playlists worked better in Qobuz. I particularly liked the fact I could have the playlists displayed by album covers within (whether you had added parts or the whole of the album). Playlists in Idagio are a just a basic listing of the tracks. I don't use them. I only save full albums as favourites in the "Albums" section.
* Idagio doesn't display the track lengths on the album page. Qobuz does. Small thing but I miss it.
* Albums do disappear off Qobuz streaming-wise. I kept my Qobuz account even after I stopped my streaming plan to keep reference of favourites/playlists, if only to regularly check FLAC prices on those for future purchases. Several albums in my playlists were greyed out again over time (Chandos & BIS seems to be the main culprits again). I have not experienced any loss of access in Idagio yet.
* As you are a Jazz fan, Qobuz will offer you that extra variety, Not Idagio.
* One thing to bear in mind: If you use Idagio on an Android phone is the space taken by the data. I have the equivalent of around 150 CD's saved in Albums on Idagio. That uses around 8Gb on my phone internal memory. That is before downloading any of them to listen to offline, it then ramps up dramatically. That said, I do not remember the option to install the app on an external card instead where space might ne higher. Similar space management need to be taken into account for Qobuz (Offline access worked fine in both btw).
Edit: incorrect issue. Clearing fully the app and re-syncing has reduced the data usage to around 100mb only. The large storage must have been old uncleared offline downloads.* I worked around this latter point by, in the meantime, saving future albums of interest as bookmarked pages in a specific bookmark folder in Opera. I bring them in gradually into Idagio's Albums when I have cleared up/listened to some from there.
* The Idagio app is clunky. Homepage opens fine, so do the Albums listing then it can freeze out while it updates or when you try open an album. It can take 2 or 3 restarts of the app to properly access within thereafter, all fine after that. I mostly use the laptop web browser.
* I am not a user of the Idagio concert section or their playlists. I seldomly browse the new releases but they are handy at times, right off the homepage. I instead take my pointers from GMG and my own exploration list ;)
* You can create in account on Idagio and use for free as mp3 to see how it works for you search-wise (Max. 6 albums can be saved as favourites).
* Idagio has had some 50% discount offers around Black Friday last year, via gift cards. I offered myself a yearly giftcard for £55-ish I think and that was it.
Conclusion: It does sound overall like a lot of niggly negatives for Idagio but I still like it a lot and it turns out to be a perfect tool for my musical exploration, at what is a very minimal cost if you snap the plan offers, again for Classical only. At least it doesn't disappear in parts (Qobuz albums) or in full (Primephonic). I'll probably jinx it now :laugh: If it is still around by then, I will probably renew again next November if the offer comes around again.
Thank you so much for that post - very detailed and lots of helpful information!
I have to go to lunch but one quick question now...Qobuz removes lots of albums from streaming after adding? I have used the download store and assumed that if something is available to buy, it must be available to stream. But if they add new releases and then take them away, that will make me upset >:(
Quote from: Brian on April 10, 2022, 07:50:20 AM
Thank you so much for that post - very detailed and lots of helpful information!
I have to go to lunch but one quick question now...Qobuz removes lots of albums from streaming after adding? I have used the download store and assumed that if something is available to buy, it must be available to stream. But if they add new releases and then take them away, that will make me upset >:(
It is extremely rare.
I currently subscribe to Qobuz and Spotify. The former is my go to and as I've been using Spotify for quite a while and I've developed playlists that I use in my work as an HPE teacher, I've kept it. I also tried Deezer and Primephonic and have had access in the past to Apple Music, which was complementary via my ISP/Telco. I've got Amazon Prime but am not sure at this stage whether this gives me access to their music streaming service.
Spotify appears to have the largest number of available 'songs' compared to anyone else though the huge advantage it used to have over its rivals has definitely shrunk. I also think it has the better search engine. For example, if I type Moravec (it could be anybody) into the search box it come up with Ivan Moravec; Artist. If I click on that, one of the options is to see all albums and it will find everything that Moravec did, regardless of collaboration with other 'artists'. When I try the same with Qobuz, in addition to Ivan Moravec, I am given a number of other options including artist collaborations to click on. Quite often some of the recordings in the collaborations don't appear when I just click on Moravec. This makes finding some of his recordings quite a chore.
If I only listened to classical then it sounds like Idagio might be an option but I also listen to a number of other genres and Qobuz provides this for me.
I'm still waiting for CD quality recordings from Spotify
Spotify, the better search engine?
Maybe things have improved in recent years**, but I note you're talking about a search for an artist. I will never forget (or forgive) that Spotify's top offering for Samuel Barber was "The Barber of Seville".
**There's another thing about Spotify I hate that I know hasn't improved, but it's not search-related.
Olivier - by my maths, Idagio is saving about 50 MB of data on your phone for all of "your albums" even before you save them - any idea what that is? Maybe album cover and short track preview clips?
Quote from: Brian on April 10, 2022, 06:24:49 PM
Olivier - by my maths, Idagio is saving about 50 MB of data on your phone for all of "your albums" even before you save them - any idea what that is? Maybe album cover and short track preview clips?
I'm not Olivier but as an Idagio user I have no idea why he would have that, and wonder whether he accidentally has a setting to download his favourites automatically.
My own favourites and other Idagio data on my iPhone are only occupying 9 MB in total. In total.
I suppose the alternative is that the Android app is behaving wildly different from the iPhone one.
Quote from: Brian on April 10, 2022, 07:50:20 AM
Thank you so much for that post - very detailed and lots of helpful information!
I have to go to lunch but one quick question now...Qobuz removes lots of albums from streaming after adding? I have used the download store and assumed that if something is available to buy, it must be available to stream. But if they add new releases and then take them away, that will make me upset >:(
Hi Brian,
I had to do some digging around. Here is my post and conversation at the time on this issue in Qobuz:
https://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,29643.msg1317467.html#msg1317467 (https://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,29643.msg1317467.html#msg1317467)
This issue was affecting only the availability to stream some/all of the tracks in those particular albums. It didn't prevent buying the album itself (on this latter matter, I have only come across one example in Qobuz, the Miaskovsky symphonies, which were and still are not available for sale, as withdrawn by the Rights holders).
Having re-checked yesterday on my Qobuz account, I have not seen any greyed-out tracks in my albums saved in my playlists, however, several of them turned up a dead link/page 404. Pure coincidence it may be but they were again Chandos recordings (one of the three labels I had the initial problem with BIS and Naxos). Browsing around, they were basically relisted under new entries. Simple data maintenance or removal/re-addition of the album later on ? Who knows...
Quote from: DavidW on April 10, 2022, 12:40:05 PM
It is extremely rare.
Out of a pool of millions of tracks and albums, yes it probably is, David.
When it was (hopefully no more) affecting a substantial chunk of the albums saved in your playlists, it rather made the Qobuz experience much less appealing ;)
Quote from: Madiel on April 10, 2022, 10:24:33 PM
I'm not Olivier but as an Idagio user I have no idea why he would have that, and wonder whether he accidentally has a setting to download his favourites automatically.
My own favourites and other Idagio data on my iPhone are only occupying 9 MB in total. In total.
I suppose the alternative is that the Android app is behaving wildly different from the iPhone one.
Thank you for checking and highlighting your storage impact, Madiel.
I have gone back to the app, cleared the whole data (not just the cache) and re-sync'ed the account from scratch. It now only takes 100Mb.
I must have had some residual downloads of albums after being removed from favourites but not cleared the downloads themselves at the time. Idagio gives a prompt to that effect now. It didn't use to.
For comparison, the Idagio Desktop app uses 300Mb. So it was a mistake with the app at my end, apologies (I have edited my original post for clarity).
Brian,
FYI, unless I am mistaken, only the Android phone app allows the offline download/listening. The Desktop app doesn't (Obviously, the Web browser/player doesn't).
Brian,
Here is the layout within the Qobuz Web player, it differs from the download store.
- the homepage (scrolled down from their main banner, with Classical & Jazz selected as genres of interest)
- The playlists page (viewed as covers, it can be as listing instead)
- View within a playlist (ditto)
Quote from: Papy Oli on April 11, 2022, 01:05:05 AM
When it was (hopefully no more) affecting a substantial chunk of the albums saved in your playlists, it rather made the Qobuz experience much less appealing ;)
Oh that is awkward. I've only had it happen to me twice.
Quote from: DavidW on April 11, 2022, 07:20:28 AM
Oh that is awkward. I've only had it happen to me twice.
Not at all, David. We all have different experiences with such platforms.
Looks like both services have really incredible selections. I tried long and hard last night and this morning to test the limits of obscure and out of print albums. I was deliberately looking for things they might not have - and they had almost all of them. Really really impressive libraries.
Just jotting down things that are on one but not the other:
Qobuz has:
Two Michel Block recitals of Chopin on Guild
Several obscure Esteban Sanchez recitals
Manfred Honeck's Naxos Bruch disc
Reynaldo Hahn quartets with the Tchalik Quartet
Some additional La Dolce Volta albums (Idagio has fewer)
Some MDG albums (Idagio appears to have none)
LP Classics
Supraphon
Idagio:
Fou Ts'ong Scarlatti album on Meridian
George Lloyd's violin sonata on Albany
Occasional bonus tracks to Sony/Universal albums (I found two, both German artists, Nils Mönkemeyer and Albrecht Mayer)
Photos of a lot of artists at the top of their pages
I noticed Qobuz has multiple pages for single artists. For example, Manfred Honeck has just one album listed under his name, with two more under "Manfred Honeck, Cond." and many more under "Pittsburgh Symphony, Manfred Honeck." Luckily they all come up together if you search his name under "albums" rather than "artists".
Both services find Juan José Mena changing his name to Juanjo VERY confusing. But they have his stuff.
Quote from: Brian on April 11, 2022, 08:23:49 AMQobuz has:
Two Michel Block recitals of Chopin on Guild
One day I hope to find any streaming service with the below Block recording. Indiana University of course has a copy available, so I may have to go the interlibrary route if ever I want to hear it. Which I do.
(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/51hNdHg3dZL._SX425_.jpg)
Quote from: Todd on April 11, 2022, 09:15:38 AM
One day I hope to find any streaming service with the below Block recording. Indiana University of course has a copy available, so I may have to go the interlibrary route if ever I want to hear it. Which I do.
(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/51hNdHg3dZL._SX425_.jpg)
If that's the one with an op 14, op 90 and an op 31, I can let you have it.
According to Amazon (who have it but it's expensive at $54) it is indeed the one with 10, 17 and 27. So I'd jump on Howard's generous offer. You've intrigued me about this recording.
By the way, Olivier, thank you for posting those screenshots. Helps me know what the app would be like and how the interface works.
Quote from: Brian on April 11, 2022, 08:23:49 AM
Looks like both services have really incredible selections. I tried long and hard last night and this morning to test the limits of obscure and out of print albums. I was deliberately looking for things they might not have - and they had almost all of them. Really really impressive libraries.
Just found another example thanks to Olivier's screenshot:
Idagio:
Does not have Dutton
Qobuz:
Has Dutton, but if you want to listen to composer David Matthews, you have to scroll through the Dave Matthews Band to find him ;D
This seems like a funny summary of the two services ;D
Well it made ME laugh. ;D ;D ;D And think about listening to the Dave Matthews Band too. ;D ;D ;D
In Qobuz search you can filter results by genre as well, so I usually look for e.g. David Matthews by typing his name in the album search bar, hitting enter, and then filtering by "Genre > Classique" or local linguistic equivalent. (For some reason the service believes I live in France.)
Dutton (along with MDG and a few other labels) also has an issue where the label failed to supply anything beyond 30 second samples of particular tracks or albums, so that you can't actually listen to them even with the highest tier of subscription, and in some cases you can't download them either. No idea why this is, but this is a label issue, not a Qobuz issue—I guess they can't really force a label that's signed with them to supply full albums rather than samples.
Quote from: Brian on April 11, 2022, 07:07:43 PM
By the way, Olivier, thank you for posting those screenshots. Helps me know what the app would be like and how the interface works.
Just found another example thanks to Olivier's screenshot:
Idagio:
Does not have Dutton
Qobuz:
Has Dutton, but if you want to listen to composer David Matthews, you have to scroll through the Dave Matthews Band to find him ;D
This seems like a funny summary of the two services ;D
;D
Glad it helps Brian.
Along AMW's filtering recommendation below, if you seek a particular label for a particular composer, you'll get more direct results by searching "Matthews Dutton" then clicking See All Releases. See attached.
That works also for "performer label". See attached for "Herreweghe Phi".
This is the search feature, with the label, that I miss the most in Idagio.
Thanks all. With my previous service I almost always included label names in search (e.g. Walton Chandos) so it is a regular habit for me.
This issue of some Qobuz albums being samples/decoys is frustrating. It's hard to tell without signing up since all I can see from the outside is the download store.
Quote from: Brian on April 12, 2022, 06:09:03 AM
Thanks all. With my previous service I almost always included label names in search (e.g. Walton Chandos) so it is a regular habit for me.
This issue of some Qobuz albums being samples/decoys is frustrating. It's hard to tell without signing up since all I can see from the outside is the download store.
I only recall this being a problem with the previously mentioned Dutton albums.
Quote from: Brian on April 12, 2022, 06:09:03 AM
This issue of some Qobuz albums being samples/decoys is frustrating. It's hard to tell without signing up since all I can see from the outside is the download store.
Yes I encountered that recently as well on a few albums. I'm sorry that I didn't mention it before.
It honestly has never occurred to me to try searches by record label...
Quote from: Madiel on April 12, 2022, 01:31:27 PM
It honestly has never occurred to me to try searches by record label...
I just did this for Dutton on Qobuz and got a lot of results. It includes new plus historical material and they are also full tracks.
Signed up for free trial on Qobuz (which lasts a month). Almost everything has been great so far, even just on web player I'm delighted with the sound quality.
Two notes:
I did find a "missing track," the Dutton album of very early and late Vaughan Williams orchestral works has a single track grayed out (the concertante cello piece). The rest was lovely.
It is quite annoying that when you listen to an album, at the end of the album it randomly selects a "related" album to play. Just because I'm enjoying Jarvi's Prokofiev, doesn't mean I want to hear the 1812 Overture!
Quote from: Brian on April 14, 2022, 08:16:48 AM
Signed up for free trial on Qobuz (which lasts a month). Almost everything has been great so far, even just on web player I'm delighted with the sound quality.
Two notes:
I did find a "missing track," the Dutton album of very early and late Vaughan Williams orchestral works has a single track grayed out (the concertante cello piece). The rest was lovely.
It is quite annoying that when you listen to an album, at the end of the album it randomly selects a "related" album to play. Just because I'm enjoying Jarvi's Prokofiev, doesn't mean I want to hear the 1812 Overture!
Not done it before but that might do the trick for the Auto-Play:
Click on your account name in the top right corner
Settings
Tab "Music Playing"
under Playback, untick
Continue playing music after your queue has ended(nb: Idagio has the same feature by default too)
Quote from: Brian on April 14, 2022, 08:16:48 AM
It is quite annoying that when you listen to an album, at the end of the album it randomly selects a "related" album to play. Just because I'm enjoying Jarvi's Prokofiev, doesn't mean I want to hear the 1812 Overture!
I very much hope you can find the setting to fix this. I hate that "feature" of some services (cough Spotify cough) with a burning passion.
Every television service known to man also expects me to specifically say that I want the episode to END. But at least with TV I'm sitting there waiting for the prompt. With music I shouldn't have to be hovering over the stop button.
Quote from: Madiel on April 14, 2022, 02:28:31 PM
I very much hope you can find the setting to fix this. I hate that "feature" of some services (cough Spotify cough) with a burning passion.
Every television service known to man also expects me to specifically say that I want the episode to END. But at least with TV I'm sitting there waiting for the prompt. With music I shouldn't have to be hovering over the stop button.
I've managed to disable it in the desktop app and the web player (not sure if it works this way on the mobile app):
- click on your name in the upper right corner
- now click
'Settings'- in Settings, click the
'Music playing' tab
- under
'Playback',
'Continue playing music after your queue has ended' is enabled by default. To disable it, click the blue button once.
Hopefully this works for you! I agree, it's an extremely annoying feature, probably designed with pop music listeners in mind.
Quote from: classicalgeek on April 14, 2022, 05:59:56 PM
I agree, it's an extremely annoying feature, probably designed with pop music listeners in mind.
It's not better in pop music. Sure, if you're listening to some sort of vague playlist. But pop music has albums as well, genuinely conceived of as albums with a beginning, middle and end. Most of the artists I like understand that and work in that format. For some years Radiohead actually refused to allow their music on iTunes because of the push to hearing single songs rather than entire albums.
The whole goal is the same wrong-headed measure of engagement that social media like Youtube uses: number of minutes you spend listening. Just encourage you to keep going and going and going by not letting the stimulation stop. All of these platforms have this idea that they need to occupy as much of your day as possible in order to make money. It's decidedly not for the user's benefit.
Quote from: Madiel on April 14, 2022, 06:12:30 PM
It's not better in pop music. Sure, if you're listening to some sort of vague playlist. But pop music has albums as well, genuinely conceived of as albums with a beginning, middle and end. Most of the artists I like understand that and work in that format. For some years Radiohead actually refused to allow their music on iTunes because of the push to hearing single songs rather than entire albums.
You're entirely right, of course... I was going to ask, who did they have in mind when they designed that feature? But then I read your next paragraph. Yup, it always comes down to the almighty dollar/euro/pound:
Quote
The whole goal is the same wrong-headed measure of engagement that social media like Youtube uses: number of minutes you spend listening. Just encourage you to keep going and going and going by not letting the stimulation stop. All of these platforms have this idea that they need to occupy as much of your day as possible in order to make money. It's decidedly not for the user's benefit.
And that explains why YouTube has a similar feature that's turned on by default (and it's not easy to disable!) I'm betting services like Spotify and Qobuz copied YouTube's strategy...
On a different note, I just downloaded the Qobuz mobile app, and disabling this feature works a bit differently there:
- on the bottom of the main screen, tap 'My Qobuz'.
- on the My Qobuz screen, tap the gear icon in the upper right corner (Settings).
- on the Settings screen, tap 'Streaming'.
- on the Streaming screen, under Playback, 'Autoplay' is enabled by default. Tap the button to disable.
Thank you. Very useful, though I o ly seek out albums on Qobuz and usualy stops playing manually when the album is finished.
Curiosity got the better of me, I signed up for Spotify Premium as they were offering 3 months free with a charge of $9.99 afterwards for each month. I ran some tests through them: Shostakovich 11th with Haitink/RCO on Decca (the second movement The Ninth of January) and also played Debussy's Images, Book I with Seong-Jin Cho on DG. My final verdict was: it sucked. It sucked big time. I was incredibly disappointed with the audio quality, which I read is 320 kbps Ogg Vorbis. Honestly, it pales in comparison to what I'm ripping through the Music app on my Macbook, which is 288 kbps AAC. Also, there wasn't any way I could fool around with the EQ settings as I'm using my laptop and I read further that the EQ is only available through their app on an Android or iPhone. I'm sorry, but this is just stupid. I also hated their search engine. Extremely clunky. To people who have to rely on streaming services (for whatever reasons), best of luck to you! But it's definitely not for me.
Your first mistake was to choose Spotify...
Quote from: Madiel on May 12, 2022, 06:59:32 PM
Your first mistake was to choose Spotify...
Well, obviously, but I just wanted to hear what the fuss was all about. This pretty much backs up my feelings about all of the streaming services and I'm thankful that I don't have to rely on them in order to get my music.
Quote from: Mirror Image on May 12, 2022, 06:48:33 PM
Curiosity got the better of me, I signed up for Spotify Premium as they were offering 3 months free with a charge of $9.99 afterwards for each month. I ran some tests through them: Shostakovich 11th with Haitink/RCO on Decca (the second movement The Ninth of January) and also played Debussy's Images, Book I with Seong-Jin Cho on DG. My final verdict was: it sucked. It sucked big time. I was incredibly disappointed with the audio quality, which I read is 320 kbps Ogg Vorbis.
I don't know anything about Spotify, but Qobuz is streaming just straight FLAC, same as what you would download from the labels themselves.
Quote from: Daverz on May 12, 2022, 07:05:48 PM
I don't know anything about Spotify, but Qobuz is streaming just straight FLAC, same as what you would download from the labels themselves.
Yeah, they don't really offer any incentives for signing up.
Quote from: Mirror Image on May 12, 2022, 07:03:50 PM
Well, obviously, but I just wanted to hear what the fuss was all about. This pretty much backs up my feelings about all of the streaming services and I'm thankful that I don't have to rely on them in order to get my music.
Well I'm not going to tell you that you simply must go for streaming, but some of the points you raise are in part reasons why I don't like Spotify specifically and don't use it. Disparities between apps and other versions, and crappy searching for classical, are things that I wouldn't assume are uniform across all streaming services.
Honestly I've never felt that Spotify's dominance in the streaming world was on the basis of merit. And in fact Spotify is not dominant everywhere. As much as anything it depends who entered which market first.
Quote from: Mirror Image on May 12, 2022, 07:08:45 PM
Yeah, they don't really offer any incentives for signing up.
They do have a discount if you pay for a year:
https://www.qobuz.com/us-en/music/streaming/offers
Quote from: Madiel on May 12, 2022, 07:09:18 PM
Well I'm not going to tell you that you simply must go for streaming, but some of the points you raise are in part reasons why I don't like Spotify specifically and don't use it. Disparities between apps and other versions, and crappy searching for classical, are things that I wouldn't assume are uniform across all streaming services.
Honestly I've never felt that Spotify's dominance in the streaming world was on the basis of merit. And in fact Spotify is not dominant everywhere. As much as anything it depends who entered which market first.
Now that I'm thinking about it, I had signed up for Apple Music as well about a year or so ago to see how I liked it and it wasn't great either. Qobuz seems like the best option if I had to make a choice on a streaming service.
Qobuz does seem to get the best rap if you want classical but also want other music. There's also Tidal which emphasises sound quality.
For classical only go with Idagio.
As discussed here earlier, Apple Music has woeful searching for classsical. They are expected to roll out their dedicated classical app soon, who knows if it will be any good.
I am nearing the end of my Qobuz free trial month. Notes:
- Generally excellent. Somebody who knows about classical music curates the new releases page. The playlist building is endless and good. Audio quality is superb. Catalog depth is tremendous and search engine is good. I spent a day last week surfing through very obscure old out of print recordings of Gunnar de Frumerie on weird Scandinavian labels.
- The Tacet label only does samples of tracks, not whole tracks.
- There was a setting to stop it auto playing a different album once your chosen album finished (thanks GMG for telling me).
- Is there a setting for gapless playback? Because I do get gaps between tracks.
- Your options are to play a whole album, or play a particular track and then it continues on to the next track after that. Unlike Naxos Music Library, there is no option to play one multi-movement work and then stop.
I'll stick with my own streaming service. ;)
Quote from: Brian on May 13, 2022, 07:29:09 AM
I am nearing the end of my Qobuz free trial month. Notes:
- Generally excellent. Somebody who knows about classical music curates the new releases page. The playlist building is endless and good. Audio quality is superb. Catalog depth is tremendous and search engine is good. I spent a day last week surfing through very obscure old out of print recordings of Gunnar de Frumerie on weird Scandinavian labels.
- The Tacet label only does samples of tracks, not whole tracks.
- There was a setting to stop it auto playing a different album once your chosen album finished (thanks GMG for telling me).
- Is there a setting for gapless playback? Because I do get gaps between tracks.
- Your options are to play a whole album, or play a particular track and then it continues on to the next track after that. Unlike Naxos Music Library, there is no option to play one multi-movement work and then stop.
If I were to try streaming it would probably be Qobuz.
Regarding lack of gapless playback, that means if you are playing an opera you will get a hiccup as tracks increment within an act. If I play a recording of the Alpine Symphony there will be a hiccup as it moves between tracks the record label includes to denote the different sections?
I also understand that Qobuz allows you to purchase lossless downloads at a discount. Is the discount generally substantial, and is download purchase available even during the free trial? Probably I would find the ability to purchase downloads cheap to be the most attractive feature.
Quote from: Brian on May 13, 2022, 07:29:09 AM
I am nearing the end of my Qobuz free trial month. Notes:
- Generally excellent. Somebody who knows about classical music curates the new releases page. The playlist building is endless and good. Audio quality is superb. Catalog depth is tremendous and search engine is good. I spent a day last week surfing through very obscure old out of print recordings of Gunnar de Frumerie on weird Scandinavian labels.
- The Tacet label only does samples of tracks, not whole tracks.
- There was a setting to stop it auto playing a different album once your chosen album finished (thanks GMG for telling me).
- Is there a setting for gapless playback? Because I do get gaps between tracks.
- Your options are to play a whole album, or play a particular track and then it continues on to the next track after that. Unlike Naxos Music Library, there is no option to play one multi-movement work and then stop.
Hi Brian,
Glad you found what you wanted in Qobuz. Happy listening !
As to the point in bold, each playlist was limited to 1,000 tracks maximum. Not to be picky or anything :P (it might have changed since I had the subscription).
I have gapless playback but that is through my streamer which bypasses the Qobuz app.
Quote from: Spotted Horses on May 13, 2022, 08:03:38 AM
I also understand that Qobuz allows you to purchase lossless downloads at a discount. Is the discount generally substantial, and is download purchase available even during the free trial? Probably I would find the ability to purchase downloads cheap to be the most attractive feature.
Whilst you still need a Qobuz account to do so, you can buy CD quality downloads and High Res downloads independently in the download store, without any ongoing streaming subscription.
However, if you have the top end "Sublime" streaming subscription, you can get some large discounts on the High Res downloads
only, if High Res is available for the recording in question. Checking a few new releases just now on their shop homepage, they vary so far between 20 & 50% off the full price. That rebate does not apply to the standard CD quality at all (usually a discount on CD quality will only exist if the label or the artist in question is part of monthly "Current Promotions").
Quote from: Papy Oli on May 13, 2022, 08:32:54 AM
Whilst you still need a Qobuz account to do so, you can buy CD quality downloads and High Res downloads independently in the download store, without any ongoing streaming subscription.
However, if you have the top end "Sublime" streaming subscription, you can get some large discounts on the High Res downloads only, if High Res is available for the recording in question. Checking a few new releases just now on their shop homepage, they vary so far between 20 & 50% off the full price. That rebate does not apply to the standard CD quality at all (usually a discount on CD quality will only exist if the label or the artist in question is part of monthly "Current Promotions").
Thanks for the useful information. I suppose the discount of hirez downloads never brings them below the standard resolution version. Typically I do standard CD quality downloads. Maybe I'll register and see if I can poke around the download store. (Usually I get lossless downloads from Presto, but I am a bit suspicious of them, since on one occasion a download had defective encoding, and I wonder how that can happen if they are getting them from legitimate sources.)
Quote from: Spotted Horses on May 13, 2022, 08:47:05 AMUsually I get lossless downloads from Presto, but I am a bit suspicious of them, since on one occasion a download had defective encoding, and I wonder how that can happen if they are getting them from legitimate sources.
Because the labels themselves can provide bad files. I've had to contact labels directly on two occasions to address just such issues.
Quote from: Spotted Horses on May 13, 2022, 08:47:05 AM
Thanks for the useful information. I suppose the discount of hirez downloads never brings them below the standard resolution version. Typically I do standard CD quality downloads. Maybe I'll register and see if I can poke around the download store. (Usually I get lossless downloads from Presto, but I am a bit suspicious of them, since on one occasion a download had defective encoding, and I wonder how that can happen if they are getting them from legitimate sources.)
Qobuz's streaming plans page advertises that the high Res discount can go up to 60% with a Sublime subscription. It can get equal or cheaper than CD quality in some instances. 2 examples from their homepage's new releases :
https://www.qobuz.com/gb-en/album/live-at-the-el-mocambo-the-rolling-stones/kga8chja8fqrb (https://www.qobuz.com/gb-en/album/live-at-the-el-mocambo-the-rolling-stones/kga8chja8fqrb)
https://www.qobuz.com/gb-en/album/dropout-boogie-the-black-keys/mukh5gqtoxv7a (https://www.qobuz.com/gb-en/album/dropout-boogie-the-black-keys/mukh5gqtoxv7a)
Click on the "Buy the Album" black banner, you'll get the pop-up with the sale price options (I got it logged off, so you don't need the account at that stage anyway).
Bit weird about Presto. Had you contacted their customer service about the file issue ?
Quote from: Papy Oli on May 13, 2022, 08:58:29 AM
Qobuz's streaming plans page advertises that the high Res discount can go up to 60% with a Sublime subscription. It can get equal or cheaper than CD quality in some instances. 2 examples from their homepage's new releases :
https://www.qobuz.com/gb-en/album/live-at-the-el-mocambo-the-rolling-stones/kga8chja8fqrb (https://www.qobuz.com/gb-en/album/live-at-the-el-mocambo-the-rolling-stones/kga8chja8fqrb)
https://www.qobuz.com/gb-en/album/dropout-boogie-the-black-keys/mukh5gqtoxv7a (https://www.qobuz.com/gb-en/album/dropout-boogie-the-black-keys/mukh5gqtoxv7a)
Click on the "Buy the Album" black banner, you'll get the pop-up with the sale price options (I got it logged off, so you don't need the account at that stage anyway).
Bit weird about Presto. Had you contacted their customer service about the file issue ?
I registered and visited the Qobuz download store. Seems like things I have in my Presto shopping cart and their downloads seem to slightly cheaper than presto FLAC downloads. Maybe I'll try purchasing them and see how smooth the process is. But one reason I have a preference for getting physical copy and ripping is because I prefer the single FLAC+cue sheet format, rather than individual FLAC files for each track.
The bad download was a set of FLAC files from a Philips release. There was a swish-swish-swish sound superimposed on the audio. I complained to presto and they immediately acknowledged there was a problem and notified me that the corrected downloads were available on the site and I should repeat the download. The problem was resolved. (It was Kocsis Debussy.)
My experience of Spotify Premium seems to differ from other recent posters here.
Obviously (at least, it's obvious to me) you have to go into the settings and take ownership, because the default install is unlikely to be optimal, for sound quality or anything else. That done -
The search facility seems more than fine to me. I type in a composer name and performer name and usually by the time I'm 3 or 4 letters into the latter the album I want is sitting there at or near the top of the results list. If I type in 'dvorak belo' it gives me Dvořák Bělohlávek despite my lazy lack of diacritics. It finds composer's pieces buried in themed compilations such as "Mindfulness in Blue" :P even when that composer is not mentioned on the cover at all - horribly common these days, a ghastly trend.
The catalogue seems huge and sometimes includes new releases before they are available on sale generally.
Sound-wise - I have gone to some trouble to prove to my own satisfaction that I can't hear any significant difference between Spotify and a CD or redbook flac (or even hi-res flac), when played through my main system at reasonable listening levels, or through my best headphones. And I care about these things just like any other audiophile.
Spotify is great value - I've felt no need to explore the more expensive alternatives such as Quobuz even if they are somehow 'better'.
Quote from: aukhawk on May 13, 2022, 09:18:03 AM
My experience of Spotify Premium seems to differ from other recent posters here.
Obviously (at least, it's obvious to me) you have to go into the settings and take ownership, because the default install is unlikely to be optimal, for sound quality or anything else. That done -
The search facility seems more than fine to me. I type in a composer name and performer name and usually by the time I'm 3 or 4 letters into the latter the album I want is sitting there at or near the top of the results list. If I type in 'dvorak belo' it gives me Dvořák Bělohlávek despite my lazy lack of diacritics. It finds composer's pieces buried in themed compilations such as "Mindfulness in Blue" :P even when that composer is not mentioned on the cover at all - horribly common these days, a ghastly trend.
The catalogue seems huge and sometimes includes new releases before they are available on sale generally.
Sound-wise - I have gone to some trouble to prove to my own satisfaction that I can't hear any significant difference between Spotify and a CD or redbook flac (or even hi-res flac), when played through my main system at reasonable listening levels, or through my best headphones. And I care about these things just like any other audiophile.
Spotify is great value - I've felt no need to explore the more expensive alternatives such as Quobuz even if they are somehow 'better'.
Well, thanks for the Spotify support - I've been a user for several years on my son's family plan (we're not in the same household nor even in the same state, so somewhat ambiguous but have not been questioned yet - SO, don't tell on me - :laugh:). I have the Spotify app on my TVs, other i-Devices, and Sonos bedroom speakers - have setup dozens of playlists; for a 'streaming service' the sound has been fine to my ears - I like their playlist offerings that have been obviously geared toward my interests. My only complaint is that on the playlists the sound levels are not always equalized which can be irritating but have been to lazy to see if that is even adjustable. The only other audio streaming service I have is Pandora which I could/should cancel (rarely use w/ my newer options). So I don't have much to add except that I'm happy w/ Spotify, especially since it's free to me (at the moment!). :D Dave
I grant you, the top picks for Samuel Barber no longer include The Barber of Seville, so something about Spotify's search function has improved over the years.
I've deliberately not commented, because I'm fairly certain that I shared my preference a while back. Spotify Premium works really well for me. Inexpensive, simple, well-designed navigation, functionality and settings, almost everything I want is on there, and the sound quality is more than satisfactory.
Add in access to podcasts and non-classical music, and I am a very happy Spotify user.
Quote from: Mirror Image on May 12, 2022, 06:48:33 PM
Curiosity got the better of me, I signed up for Spotify Premium as they were offering 3 months free with a charge of $9.99 afterwards for each month. I ran some tests through them: Shostakovich 11th with Haitink/RCO on Decca (the second movement The Ninth of January) and also played Debussy's Images, Book I with Seong-Jin Cho on DG. My final verdict was: it sucked. It sucked big time. I was incredibly disappointed with the audio quality, which I read is 320 kbps Ogg Vorbis. Honestly, it pales in comparison to what I'm ripping through the Music app on my Macbook, which is 288 kbps AAC. Also, there wasn't any way I could fool around with the EQ settings as I'm using my laptop and I read further that the EQ is only available through their app on an Android or iPhone. I'm sorry, but this is just stupid. I also hated their search engine. Extremely clunky. To people who have to rely on streaming services (for whatever reasons), best of luck to you! But it's definitely not for me.
I agree that the search engine sucks I but will tell you some tricks to know since you have already paid for three months.
Improving SQ:
Set streaming and download quality to VERY HIGH.
Turn off "Auto Adjust quality"
Turn off "Normalize volume"
That should dramatically help. The settings are set poorly by default.
Quote from: aukhawk on May 13, 2022, 09:18:03 AM
Sound-wise - I have gone to some trouble to prove to my own satisfaction that I can't hear any significant difference between Spotify and a CD or redbook flac (or even hi-res flac), when played through my main system at reasonable listening levels, or through my best headphones. And I care about these things just like any other audiophile.
I agree whether on my stereo or my Beyerdynamic dt1990s.
Quote from: DavidW on May 13, 2022, 03:01:51 PM
I agree that the search engine sucks I but will tell you some tricks to know since you have already paid for three months.
Improving SQ:
Set streaming and download quality to VERY HIGH.
Turn off "Auto Adjust quality"
Turn off "Normalize volume"
That should dramatically help. The settings are set poorly by default.
Thanks, Dave. I tried all of this as it is a natural inclination of mine to get into the settings and see what I can change. I was still dissatisfied with the fidelity. Also, I didn't pay for three months as they were free, but the minute I cancelled, I lost all of the benefits included with Spotify Premium. Oh well.
Quote from: foxandpeng on May 13, 2022, 02:09:02 PM
I've deliberately not commented, because I'm fairly certain that I shared my preference a while back. Spotify Premium works really well for me. Inexpensive, simple, well-designed navigation, functionality and settings, almost everything I want is on there, and the sound quality is more than satisfactory.
Add in access to podcasts and non-classical music, and I am a very happy Spotify user.
If you can tell me how to make Spotify stop after a podcast episode instead of immediately beginning the next one, I will become a slightly less disgruntled forced user of Spotify for an exclusive podcast.
Quote from: Madiel on May 13, 2022, 09:05:44 PM
If you can tell me how to make Spotify stop after a podcast episode instead of immediately beginning the next one, I will become a slightly less disgruntled forced user of Spotify for an exclusive podcast.
Did you turn off autoplay in the settings?
Re: Spotify - "the search engine sucks"
This has not been my experience. In fact, I have found the search engine to be excellent.
As someone whose experience and training was in online research and search engine optimizing, these complaints are almost always the result of deficient user skill.
Quote from: DavidW on May 13, 2022, 03:01:51 PM
I agree that the search engine sucks I but will tell you some tricks to know since you have already paid for three months.
Improving SQ:
Set streaming and download quality to VERY HIGH.
Turn off "Auto Adjust quality"
Turn off "Normalize volume"
That should dramatically help. The settings are set poorly by default.
This ⬆️⬆️
Quote from: San Antone on May 14, 2022, 05:33:06 AM
Re: Spotify - "the search engine sucks"
This has not been my experience. In fact, I have found the search engine to be excellent.
As someone whose experience and training was in online research and search engine optimizing, these complaints are almost always the result of deficient user skill.
Yeah, you're a genius and everyone else who doesn't like Spotify's search engine is a dumbass. ::) I know perfectly well how to use a search engine and Spotify's is far from excellent, so I disagree with you.
Quote from: Mirror Image on May 14, 2022, 06:16:12 AM
Yeah, you're a genius and everyone else who doesn't like Spotify's search engine is a dumbass. ::) I know perfectly well how to use a search engine and Spotify's is far from excellent, so I disagree with you.
I have no idea why you fail to get the results you wish from a search. It is unfortunate that you do not, but I am almost never dissatisfied with the results. I just did the search "schumann piano quintet" and the screen filled up with dozens of recordings of that work.
It doesn't take a genius to accomplish the same thing.
Spotify has other problems but the search engine is not one of them; at least in my experience.
Quote from: San Antone on May 14, 2022, 07:02:52 AM
I have no idea why you fail to get the results you wish from a search. It is unfortunate that you do not, but I am almost never dissatisfied with the results. I just did the search "schumann piano quintet" and the screen filled up with dozens of recordings of that work.
It doesn't take a genius to accomplish the same thing.
Spotify has other problems but the search engine is not one of them; at least in my experience.
Well, I just went there and typed in "Shostakovich Symphony No. 11 Haitink" and it brought a whole lot of recordings besides the Haitink. For example, it brought up Petrenko's 10th on Naxos, Rostropovich/Ormandy in the
Cello Concerto No. 1 and all sorts of other recordings that didn't belong in my specific search. So this is what I mean by clunky and this is just one simple example out of many. Anyway, I don't like what it brings up and I still think it sucks. But, hey, you probably don't have the same problems since you apparently don't have deficient user skill like I do.
Quote from: Madiel on May 13, 2022, 09:05:44 PM
If you can tell me how to make Spotify stop after a podcast episode instead of immediately beginning the next one, I will become a slightly less disgruntled forced user of Spotify for an exclusive podcast.
I must admit that I haven't tried, but toggling the autoplay does sound like a solution. Good luck!
Quote from: Mirror Image on May 14, 2022, 07:46:51 AM
Well, I just went there and typed in "Shostakovich Symphony No. 11 Haitink" and it brought a whole lot of recordings besides the Haitink. For example, it brought up Petrenko's 10th on Naxos, Rostropovich/Ormandy in the Cello Concerto No. 1 and all sorts of other recordings that didn't belong in my specific search. So this is what I mean by clunky and this is just one simple example out of many. Anyway, I don't like what it brings up and I still think it sucks. But, hey, you probably don't have the same problems since you apparently don't have deficient user skill like I do.
I would never use that kind of a search since it includes too many terms.
I tried "shostakovich haitink 11" and the first recording was Royal Concertgebouw with Haitink of the 11th symphony. The second recording was the complete symphony set of Haitink with the London Symphony Orchestra. After that the results became less relevant, but I got two recordings of what I was looking for at the top of the screen.
Yep - in that case I would write "Shostakovich Haitink" and maybe the number 11 but skip the word symphony for sure. This is why I love using the label name for searches, also - typing something like "Bridge Chandos" really reduces the number of variables which can confuse the search engine.
Quote from: Brian on May 14, 2022, 08:27:23 AM
Yep - in that case I would write "Shostakovich Haitink" and maybe the number 11 but skip the word symphony for sure. This is why I love using the label name for searches, also - typing something like "Bridge Chandos" really reduces the number of variables which can confuse the search engine.
But this would bring up too many recordings. I like concise searching and, unfortunately, Spotify fails to deliver in this regard. Of course, the audio quality leaves much to be desired, too. If I was going to sign up for a streaming service, I would probably wait and see what this new Apple classical service will be like.
Quote from: San Antone on May 14, 2022, 08:10:08 AM
I would never use that kind of a search since it includes too many terms.
I tried "shostakovich haitink 11" and the first recording was Royal Concertgebouw with Haitink of the 11th symphony. The second recording was the complete symphony set of Haitink with the London Symphony Orchestra. After that the results became less relevant, but I got two recordings of what I was looking for at the top of the screen.
It's fine that Spotify works for you, but I wasn't impressed. We'll just leave at that.
Quote from: DavidW on May 14, 2022, 03:54:41 AM
Did you turn off autoplay in the settings?
Yes, Autoplay is off. It has no effect on a podcast because it apparently thinks that consecutive episodes of the same podcast are like consecutive tracks of the same album.
Quote from: Mirror Image on May 14, 2022, 12:39:33 PM
But this would bring up too many recordings. I like concise searching and, unfortunately, Spotify fails to deliver in this regard. ...
The trick is - don't be a scholar, be a simpleton. That is Spotify's target market after all. I can see why this would be an irritation to some people, but the more search terms you use widens the search, not narrows it. It's counter-intuitive in some ways.
I rarely have to type in more than one word (composer) and half-a-word (performer). OK, 'beethoven karaj...' would go horribly wrong ::) but for example 'shostakovich dono...' gives me an instant 1-hit result.
I find it's a mistake to include a number of any kind. Searching for 'symphony 4' will just invite inclusion of string quartet 4, piano sonata 14, opus 4, opus 42, opus 114 etc etc. Don't be a scholar, be a simpleton.
I think from reading this and other fora that something that people really dislike is the inclusion of spurious and irrelevant items in the search results list - some pop album for example. I ask myself, why can't they just ignore the things they don't want to see? It's part of life, all the time we just filter out the stuff we don't like - noisy children, grocers' apostraphes etc etc.
Quote from: aukhawk on May 16, 2022, 01:35:21 AM
The trick is - don't be a scholar, be a simpleton. That is Spotify's target market after all. I can see why this would be an irritation to some people, but the more search terms you use widens the search, not narrows it. It's counter-intuitive in some ways.
I rarely have to type in more than one word (composer) and half-a-word (performer). OK, 'beethoven karaj...' would go horribly wrong ::) but for example 'shostakovich dono...' gives me an instant 1-hit result.
I find it's a mistake to include a number of any kind. Searching for 'symphony 4' will just invite inclusion of string quartet 4, piano sonata 14, opus 4, opus 42, opus 114 etc etc. Don't be a scholar, be a simpleton.
I think from reading this and other fora that something that people really dislike is the inclusion of spurious and irrelevant items in the search results list - some pop album for example. I ask myself, why can't they just ignore the things they don't want to see? It's part of life, all the time we just filter out the stuff we don't like - noisy children, grocers' apostraphes etc etc.
This is all fine and dandy
for you, but I choose not to conform to Spotify's alleged "simplicity", because a search engine, IMHO, is something that should be more precise and this is where the Spotify developers dropped the ball. They didn't know what the hell they were doing, so they get a grade of F- in this regard, but it's also their audio quality that I have a qualm with. Anyway, I'm done talking about this now.
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Sorry, this cracks me up. "Here is how to use the search engine." "I dislike and reject how to use the search engine." The great thing is, nobody is wrong! Aukhawk and San Antonio are right about how to search, and MI is surely right to live however he wants. But you have to admit... It is funny. Man's struggle against the machine continues ;D
MI, I think you should try Idagio. They have a free version. If you start searching for a work it will identify it and then you can select and see all possible recordings. Far smarter for classical music.
Quote from: DavidW on May 16, 2022, 06:36:43 AM
MI, I think you should try Idagio. They have a free version. If you start searching for a work it will identify it and then you can select and see all possible recordings. Far smarter for classical music.
Thanks, Dave. I tried Idagio already in the free version and the fidelity left much to be desired, because it still uses mp3, but if I upgrade, I'll be able to playback in FLAC.
Quote from: Brian on May 16, 2022, 06:20:40 AM
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Sorry, this cracks me up. "Here is how to use the search engine." "I dislike and reject how to use the search engine." The great thing is, nobody is wrong! Aukhawk and San Antonio are right about how to search, and MI is surely right to live however he wants. But you have to admit... It is funny. Man's struggle against the machine continues ;D
I did the same search "shostakovich haitink 11" on Naxos Music Library and got the same results, i.e. exactly the same top two recordings and then other unrelated recordings. Oddly the NML "Advanced Search" produced fewer results but the same two recordings, along with four mis-matches. Amazon performed somewhat better, it also produced the same top two recordings but also a few earlier releases and couplings before offering wrong matches.
When I said user deficiency, and I taught new attorneys online research at a large law firm, people either construct too narrow or too broad of searches. The first produces no matches and the second too many results.
Quote from: Brian on May 16, 2022, 06:20:40 AM
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Sorry, this cracks me up. "Here is how to use the search engine." "I dislike and reject how to use the search engine." The great thing is, nobody is wrong! Aukhawk and San Antonio are right about how to search, and MI is surely right to live however he wants. But you have to admit... It is funny. Man's struggle against the machine continues ;D
Yes, the struggle is real! :P Power to the people! ;D
Quote from: Brian on May 16, 2022, 06:20:40 AMBut you have to admit... It is funny.
True. I am happy that one of the annoyances I face is how to find one recording out of hundreds of thousands. I contrast this with the dark ages - you know, the 90s.
Contrast with searching Apple Music, where a search for Mozart's symphony no.12 got me many hits for Mozart and symphony but no evidence of the actual work I wanted. Scrolling through pages of results.
Whatever you think of some of the other services, they still give you a way better outcome than THAT.
Quote from: Madiel on May 16, 2022, 01:23:18 PM
Contrast with searching Apple Music, where a search for Mozart's symphony no.12 got me many hits for Mozart and symphony but no evidence of the actual work I wanted. Scrolling through pages of results.
Whatever you think of some of the other services, they still give you a way better outcome than THAT.
Apple Music is by far the worst. No wonder they bought out Primephonic! They're like "we don't understand metadata, please help us!"
I'm trying to listen to a 1970s recording of Haydn's The Seasons with the Szegéd Symphony conducted by Tamás Pál in Mediaklikk before it gets deleted in less than 5 hours, but today I'm not getting any audio from the website. The live stream (https://mediaklikk.hu/bartok-radio-elo) does work, but the archive's streams don't.
https://mediaklikk.hu/radio-lejatszo-bartok/?date=2022-07-15_13-18-00&enddate=2022-07-15_15-09-00&ch=mr3
I wonder if the error is in the website or in my PC, which had a Windows update yesterday. Does it work for you?
For those that are already subscribing or those who might be interested, Idagio has an offer on gift cards for Black Friday with 12 months for the price of 6 months (€57 approx for a year of streaming, a repeat of last year's offer).
https://www.idagio.com/promotions/gift-card/#embedded-gift-card (https://www.idagio.com/promotions/gift-card/#embedded-gift-card)
Presto Music has launched its streaming service
Read More here...
https://www.prestomusic.com/classical/articles/5143--announcement-presto-musics-streaming-service-is-finally-here
Quote from: Paul_Thomas on February 22, 2023, 02:36:34 AMPresto Music has launched its streaming service
Read More here...
https://www.prestomusic.com/classical/articles/5143--announcement-presto-musics-streaming-service-is-finally-here
That is exciting news Paul. Thank you for sharing!
Quote from: Paul_Thomas on February 22, 2023, 02:36:34 AMPresto Music has launched its streaming service
Read More here...
https://www.prestomusic.com/classical/articles/5143--announcement-presto-musics-streaming-service-is-finally-here
Oooohhh. Interesting!
Now that it's announced I remember there was a survey while it was being developed. And I answered the survey. I have no clue what my answers were though, to see how it lines up.
I will need to have a try at some point to see how it compares to Idagio.
Quote from: Paul_Thomas on February 22, 2023, 02:36:34 AMPresto Music has launched its streaming service
Read More here...
https://www.prestomusic.com/classical/articles/5143--announcement-presto-musics-streaming-service-is-finally-here
I hinted to my girlfriend as a possible birthday gift.....and I think it may just happen! 8)
Apple Music is coming soon as well by the looks of it:
https://www.gramophone.co.uk/classical%20music%20news/article/apple-music-launches-a-new-standalone-app-for-classical-music?utm_medium=Social&utm_campaign=Echobox&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1678374439-1 (https://www.gramophone.co.uk/classical%20music%20news/article/apple-music-launches-a-new-standalone-app-for-classical-music?utm_medium=Social&utm_campaign=Echobox&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1678374439-1)
Quote from: Papy Oli on March 09, 2023, 07:16:03 AMApple Music is coming soon as well by the looks of it:
https://www.gramophone.co.uk/classical%20music%20news/article/apple-music-launches-a-new-standalone-app-for-classical-music?utm_medium=Social&utm_campaign=Echobox&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1678374439-1 (https://www.gramophone.co.uk/classical%20music%20news/article/apple-music-launches-a-new-standalone-app-for-classical-music?utm_medium=Social&utm_campaign=Echobox&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1678374439-1)
That could be interesting. I had a trial subscription to the generic Apple Music (let it lapse) but I noticed a lot ofstuff was marked "lossless," so we might expect their classical app to feature lossless compression.
Quote from: Papy Oli on March 09, 2023, 07:16:03 AMApple Music is coming soon as well by the looks of it:
https://www.gramophone.co.uk/classical%20music%20news/article/apple-music-launches-a-new-standalone-app-for-classical-music?utm_medium=Social&utm_campaign=Echobox&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1678374439-1 (https://www.gramophone.co.uk/classical%20music%20news/article/apple-music-launches-a-new-standalone-app-for-classical-music?utm_medium=Social&utm_campaign=Echobox&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1678374439-1)
Only about a year late. We've moved past me being mad about the shutdown of Primephonic to me no longer caring because I'm so comfortable with Idagio as a replacement.
Quote from: Madiel on March 09, 2023, 11:59:58 AMOnly about a year late. We've moved past me being mad about the shutdown of Primephonic to me no longer caring because I'm so comfortable with Idagio as a replacement.
but...but...they have complete and accurate metadata ! ...and specially commissioned composer portraits... :o
Idagio has some annoying flaws on the android phone app but the PC app and their web player work fine for me. Idagio stays for me too.
Quote from: OrchestralNut on March 08, 2023, 10:13:25 AMI hinted to my girlfriend as a possible birthday gift.....and I think it may just happen! 8)
;D
PD
Quote from: Papy Oli on March 09, 2023, 12:20:56 PMbut...but...they have complete and accurate metadata ! ...and specially commissioned composer portraits... :o
Idagio has some annoying flaws on the android phone app but the PC app and their web player work fine for me. Idagio stays for me too.
I doubt anyone has complete and accurate metadata. Primephonic didn't, though one of the great things about Primephonic was how willing they were to fix specific mistakes that I pointed out. No way that's going to happen with Apple.
But in Apple's case the only way is up. Maybe I'll try it just to see if a search for Mozart Symphony no.12 actually produces at least one recording of the relevant symphony. Because on Apple Music, it didn't.
I do need to try out Presto at some point, but really I have so few issues with Idagio that I'm not actually looking for change.
And there's a more fundamental reason why Apple is of no interest to me: the risk that using Apple streaming will fuck up my own personal library on my iPhone.
My only issue with Idagio is the desktop app for when I'm at work. It is surprisingly not as full featured as using a browser. And Qobuz' desktop app is great because you can disable any alerts from Windows or other apps when listening to music.
The tables are turned when I'm listening at home on my stereo. Using Idagio in that context is way easier than Qobuz.
I don't think I've ever tried the desktop app for Idagio. I'm not sure I knew one existed!
Okay, so I just downloaded the Presto Music app, and one thing immediately impressed me.
It knew about my account with the store from my email address, and once I signed into my account it knows all of the albums that I've purchased on CD from the store.
I did kind of already know this might be the case, and I don't necessarily need easy access to these CD purchases in the app. But gee it was nice to see how smoothly this happened.
Where the app is immediately falling down, though, is in the ability to play a work rather than album. If you browse recordings of a work on Idagio, then what you will play is the particular work - you have to deliberately move to the album to play the whole album. But Presto is not doing this. It will show me a list of albums with recordings of Beethoven's 3rd piano sonata, but pressing play will begin the album at the beginning, and predictably the result is the 1st piano sonata.
Quote from: Madiel on March 09, 2023, 03:46:53 PMOkay, so I just downloaded the Presto Music app, and one thing immediately impressed me.
It knew about my account with the store from my email address, and once I signed into my account it knows all of the albums that I've purchased on CD from the store.
I did kind of already know this might be the case, and I don't necessarily need easy access to these CD purchases in the app. But gee it was nice to see how smoothly this happened.
Where the app is immediately falling down, though, is in the ability to play a work rather than album. If you browse recordings of a work on Idagio, then what you will play is the particular work - you have to deliberately move to the album to play the whole album. But Presto is not doing this. It will show me a list of albums with recordings of Beethoven's 3rd piano sonata, but pressing play will begin the album at the beginning, and predictably the result is the 1st piano sonata.
I'm a presto customer so that will be interesting.
Surely they have track listings that can be accessed
Anyway. I'll give them a try
They do have track listings yes. I just mean that when you search for a work, it doesn't automatically lead to playing that work. The shortcut will play the album, not the work.
The overall presentation, including showing the works and tracks within an album, is very attractive.
I signed up for the free trial. Each track only plays for a minute before moving on to the next one. Have I done something wrong?
Quote from: Holden on March 09, 2023, 10:47:29 PMI signed up for the free trial. Each track only plays for a minute before moving on to the next one. Have I done something wrong?
I get the same on a free account, on albums other than the ones I've purchased. I hadn't initially noticed because I was only dabbling.
If you've signed up for the 30 day free trial of a "proper" account then I expect this shouldn't happen. But if you're literally on a free account then maybe this is all you get.
Quote from: Madiel on March 09, 2023, 11:16:09 PMI get the same on a free account, on albums other than the ones I've purchased. I hadn't initially noticed because I was only dabbling.
If you've signed up for the 30 day free trial of a "proper" account then I expect this shouldn't happen. But if you're literally on a free account then maybe this is all you get.
I found out that I wasn't actually using the web player but accessing Prestos catalogue which only gives sound bites of course. I was initially excited because I thought it gave me access to the full Hyperion catalogue but this wasn't the case. The poor search engine and clumsy GUI made it a no no for me so I cancelled, realising that Qobuz would provide everything that Presto would. I'll still use them for CD purchases though.
I've finally come to a tipping point and Idagio wins. I've cancelled my Qobuz account.
Qobuz has a feature where you can download albums that you have not purchased to your phone for mobile playing away from wifi. For example, I download jazz albums for road trips.
Given the arrival of this feature, I don't know that I see a reason to keep purchasing download files...?
Quote from: Brian on March 29, 2023, 04:49:05 AMGiven the arrival of this feature, I don't know that I see a reason to keep purchasing download files...?
You really like the recording and want it available for all devices without internet connectivity. Also, Qubuz will likely go out of business or be sold one day. For immediate needs, though, for most recordings, no purchase necessary.
Quote from: Brian on March 29, 2023, 04:49:05 AMGiven the arrival of this feature, I don't know that I see a reason to keep purchasing download files...?
If you cancel the service you can still play purchased downloads. If Qobuz loses the rights (as I've seen happen several times before) to stream something you can still play purchased downloads. Just because you download a stream, doesn't mean that you can play it if Qobuz loses the rights to it. The distinction between the two is DRM, and the ability to download the music outside of the app.
I encourage you to still pay to own music that you enjoy. Also you are rewarding the artists and record label with far more money than they would receive otherwise.
Quote from: Brian on March 29, 2023, 04:49:05 AMQobuz has a feature where you can download albums that you have not purchased to your phone for mobile playing away from wifi. For example, I download jazz albums for road trips.
Given the arrival of this feature, I don't know that I see a reason to keep purchasing download files...?
I may be outing myself as a dinosaur, but I still see value in "owning" a personal music collection, although I don't distinguish between physical media and files which are free from DRM and can be played without access to an active account. I don't want items in my library to disappear without warning or notice because a streaming service has a dispute with a content producer, gets bought out, or goes out of business. I also like the idea that purchasing content directs more revenue to the content producer, as opposed to streaming, where mostly the tech company operating the streaming service profits.
It is sort of peculiar that audio streaming services have pretty exhaustive catalogs while video streaming services usually have a very incomplete collection, where things frequently appear and disappear from the service. I'm not confident that audio streaming won't become more like video streaming services, making my access to music I want insecure.
Quote from: Brian on March 29, 2023, 04:49:05 AMQobuz has a feature where you can download albums that you have not purchased to your phone for mobile playing away from wifi. For example, I download jazz albums for road trips.
Given the arrival of this feature, I don't know that I see a reason to keep purchasing download files...?
You'll stop being able to play them once you stop paying.
Right about that Madiel. To quote forum guidelines:
QuoteIllegal Activity
GMG will not tolerate the discussion or promotion of any illegal activity. In particular, GMG should not be used as a means for distributing or sharing copyrighted music files. File sharing is strictly prohibited on GMG. Small music samples may be posted on the forum, but anything that contravenes copyright laws will not be acceptable behaviour.
The offending post has been deleted. Sorry to be heavy handed about it.
Quote from: DavidW on March 29, 2023, 06:02:57 PMRight about that Madiel. To quote forum guidelines:
The offending post has been deleted. Sorry to be heavy handed about it.
In my own defense, the software can't be used if you don't have a subscription to use the streaming services it can access. It simply uses the APIs provided by those streaming services. As it says at the bottom of the page:
"By using <redacted>, you agree to the terms and conditions of the Qobuz, Tidal, and Deezer APIs."
It doesn't get around the terms and conditions, it just means you have to abide by them manually.
A tweet today from M-A Hamelin:
Oh I can't wait! There is so, so, so much music in their catalog I would like to listen to.
This was my first question after I learned of the purchase. Good news.
Quote from: Papy Oli on May 11, 2023, 05:41:02 AMA tweet today from M-A Hamelin:
...which means that many of you will finally be able to listen to, among others, his exquisite
Medtner and
Alkan recordings. 🥂
I'm starting to appreciate the agony and ecstasy of streaming. I have Apple Music, for pop music and listening to kids songs in the car. I wanted to listen to the Ewa Kupiec recording of Bacewicz piano music, which I purchased some years ago. Mysteriously, it is nowhere to be found. I must have gotten rid of the disc before I remembered to rip it. Grrr!.
Now I have to buy it again (overpriced used copies or lossless download with no booklet). But wait, maybe it's on Apple Music. Indeed, it is and listening to a quick except on my fancy Sony noise canceling wireless headphones, it sounds great. Maybe there's something to this streaming thing.
Then, I thought, I keep hearing about this Talich Quartet Beethoven set, and I'm considering buying it. Maybe they have that too. Yes! But wait, they seem to have multiple copies of some volumes listed and the volume that I would listen to first, the one with Op 127, is inexplicably missing! I'm back to grrrr!
Quote from: Spotted Horses on May 16, 2023, 02:54:40 PMI'm starting to appreciate the agony and ecstasy of streaming. I have Apple Music, for pop music and listening to kids songs in the car. I wanted to listen to the Ewa Kupiec recording of Bacewicz piano music, which I purchased some years ago. Mysteriously, it is nowhere to be found. I must have gotten rid of the disc before I remembered to rip it. Grrr!.
Now I have to buy it again (overpriced used copies or lossless download with no booklet). But wait, maybe it's on Apple Music. Indeed, it is and listening to a quick except on my fancy Sony noise canceling wireless headphones, it sounds great. Maybe there's something to this streaming thing.
Then, I thought, I keep hearing about this Talich Quartet Beethoven set, and I'm considering buying it. Maybe they have that too. Yes! But wait, they seem to have multiple copies of some volumes listed and the volume that I would listen to first, the one with Op 127, is inexplicably missing! I'm back to grrrr!
Oh, no!
I suspect that the Talich Q. have recorded it multiple times over the years. Wonder whether or not Apple used the same covers for the various sets (shudder)?
PD
No, the duplicate entries are identical in every respect (track timings, etc) so I am pretty sure they are the same recording.
I don't think that Apple Music actively fetches releases for their service. With the exception of really high profile artists, I suspect they basically say "if you want your releases on our platform go to our portal and upload it." So I suspect that some half-wit intern at La Dolce Volta who was responsible for uploading the material lost track of what he or she was doing and uploaded some material twice and some not at all. Rather annoying.
Quote from: Spotted Horses on May 17, 2023, 05:43:33 AMI don't think that Apple Music actively fetches releases for their service. With the exception of really high profile artists, I suspect they basically say "if you want your releases on our platform go to our portal and upload it." So I suspect that some half-wit intern at La Dolce Volta who was responsible for uploading the material lost track of what he or she was doing and uploaded some material twice and some not at all. Rather annoying.
Yes, this is pretty much the case, especially for any release that predates streaming being a regular thing. I've encountered quite a few examples of this sort of problem, when some entry in a series is missing. It's almost always slightly older recordings, right from the cusp of the transition to streaming services.
Duplications are more often the result of things being released repeatedly. Idagio certainly has this problem, and I think Primephonic used to as well. Even though they sometimes have information about recording dates, it doesn't always translate into recognising "oh, this is the same recording released again". Often Idagio does get this right and correctly identifies the one recording as belong to multiple albums, but it's a little patchy and I suspect they're largely relying on the metadata they've been provided with, which with the great big initial dump tends to have been bad.
Idagio (and formerly Primephonic) would at least correct metadata problems that were pointed out to them. Doing that with Apple would be almost impossible. And as for missing albums like this, well, I've never tried with any service to say "um, why is one things from this sequence missing".
I do like how Spotify shows you that it is aware of the missing tracks but that they are unavailable (they show them but are greyed out). I wish more platforms would take that approach instead of just skipping over them. Qobuz has the honesty of labeling the tracks available on incomplete albums as promotional (I don't remember the exact wording) if the label is just giving you a sample to get you to buy the whole thing. Doesn't happen a lot but it happens.
I can feel myself getting sucked into the streaming universe based on noticing what is available on Apple Music (and all seems to be available in lossless format).
But I miss the "booklet." I like to see the recording data (i.e., date and location of recording). And the program notes are of interest, particularly in music that is new to me. That seems to be basically nonexistent in streaming world. Do people miss this, or do some streaming services provide the "booklet?"
Quote from: Spotted Horses on May 20, 2023, 08:26:57 AMdo some streaming services provide the "booklet?"
Yes both Qobuz and Idagio provides booklets. There is a special icon for it right underneath the cover art on the album page in either app.
Quote from: DavidW on May 20, 2023, 10:15:40 AMYes both Qobuz and Idagio provides booklets. There is a special icon for it right underneath the cover art on the album page in either app.
I guess I could have guessed that, since I've sometimes purchased from he qobuz download store and booklets are sometimes available. But it seems like you have a good change of getting the booklet for a new release. Older releases seem to be missing the booklet, more times than not.
I'm keeping Apple Music for other reasons. Adding Qobuz for booklets seems like too much money for a marginal gain.
Yes, booklets are another thing, like metadata, where newer albums that have been added since streaming became common tend to do better than things that were part of the initial data dump.
Booklets are indeed another reason why I will keep buying discs for things that I want to be part of my library. Not a company's library.
Quote from: Spotted Horses on May 20, 2023, 04:48:16 PMI'm keeping Apple Music for other reasons. Adding Qobuz for booklets seems like too much money for a marginal gain.
You can access and download the available booklets on Qobuz, Idagio and Presto just by having an account (e.g.free service or from a trial period) without an active streaming subscription.
Edit: that is via their respective webplayers or desktop apps.
I sometimes get booklets from Naxos Music as well (account through the local library system). I don't think I've ever used them for listening!
Quote from: Papy Oli on May 21, 2023, 12:53:19 AMYou can access and download the available booklets on Qobuz, Idagio and Presto just by having an account (e.g.free service or from a trial period) without an active streaming subscription.
Edit: that is via their respective webplayers or desktop apps.
Oh clever, clever!
Thanks for the comments. Now that it was mentioned, I see that I can get booklets from Qobuz based on having an account that I use for their download store. Useful for future reference, but not in the current instance because the recording I am currently streaming, Kupiec's collection of Bacewicz Piano Music on Hanssler, does not have a booklet on qobuz (or anywhere else, that I can see). Not unexpected since it is an older release.
That motivation for getting qobuz on top of Apple Music is gone. But the other nuisance is that Apple Music wants to send output to whatever I have selected as the operating system's sound output (built in speakers, external DAC, etc). It doesn't seem to allow me to direct its output somewhere else, so the little operating sounds (beeps and clicks for opening folders, etc) go along with the music. That is not ideal.
Quote from: Madiel on May 21, 2023, 05:30:45 AMI sometimes get booklets from Naxos Music as well (account through the local library system). I don't think I've ever used them for listening!
Regarding
Chandos releases, their booklets are freely available in their website.
Quote from: Spotted Horses on May 21, 2023, 07:39:58 AMBut the other nuisance is that Apple Music wants to send output to whatever I have selected as the operating system's sound output (built in speakers, external DAC, etc). It doesn't seem to allow me to direct its output somewhere else, so the little operating sounds (beeps and clicks for opening folders, etc) go along with the music. That is not ideal.
Qobuz is sadly the only app that I know of that supports wasapi exclusive to stop system notifications from interfering with the music. On Windows 10 if you open App volume and sound preferences you can set the system volume to zero however while keeping the app volumes at 100.
Quote from: Spotted Horses on May 21, 2023, 07:39:58 AMThanks for the comments. Now that it was mentioned, I see that I can get booklets from Qobuz based on having an account that I use for their download store. Useful for future reference, but not in the current instance because the recording I am currently streaming, Kupiec's collection of Bacewicz Piano Music on Hanssler, does not have a booklet on qobuz (or anywhere else, that I can see). Not unexpected since it is an older release.
That motivation for getting qobuz on top of Apple Music is gone. But the other nuisance is that Apple Music wants to send output to whatever I have selected as the operating system's sound output (built in speakers, external DAC, etc). It doesn't seem to allow me to direct its output somewhere else, so the little operating sounds (beeps and clicks for opening folders, etc) go along with the music. That is not ideal.
Having the operating sounds as well is bad design. Most apps on my phone know not to do that. But maybe if you're using a desktop computer it's less common to separate these out, or even more difficult for the programmers.
Quote from: Wanderer on May 21, 2023, 07:53:24 AMRegarding Chandos releases, their booklets are freely available in their website.
They
were. Maybe it's just me. I see
HiRes Artwork available on purchase
PDF Booklet is available on purchase
when I click on the Media tab.
Quote from: Daverz on May 21, 2023, 02:10:14 PMThey were. Maybe it's just me. I see
HiRes Artwork available on purchase
PDF Booklet is available on purchase
when I click on the Media tab.
Yep, they've changed it. Fairly recently. Presumably someone finally decided it was an issue (especially as it wasn't confined to Chandos label albums).
Quote from: DavidW on May 21, 2023, 07:54:14 AMQobuz is sadly the only app that I know of that supports wasapi exclusive to stop system notifications from interfering with the music. On Windows 10 if you open App volume and sound preferences you can set the system volume to zero however while keeping the app volumes at 100.
Quote from: Madiel on May 21, 2023, 01:54:32 PMHaving the operating sounds as well is bad design. Most apps on my phone know not to do that. But maybe if you're using a desktop computer it's less common to separate these out, or even more difficult for the programmers.
All of the media players I've used (Swinsian, foobar2000) support selecting any output audio device connected, or using the default audio that you select with the OS dialog box. The fact that music goes to the selected audio device is a limitation of Apple Music, rather than MacOS. But I discovered that you apparently can divert the various desktop sounds (beeps, blips, clicks) to a specific device, so it seems like I can direct the OS noises to the built in speakers and use the audio selector to divert Apple Music to my external DAC. That seems backwards, but if it works, ok. Seems like I can also turn off OS sounds entirely by unchecking a box. That sound more attractive to me, since I never find those little noises helpful.
There is an interesting article on the blog "On An Overgrown Path" which folks here might be interested in: "Classical critics need to talk sound sense" about how companies are remastering classical recordings. https://www.overgrownpath.com/2023/05/classical-critics-need-to-talk-sound.html
Wasn't quite certain where to put this article, but he did also refer to Apple.
PD
p.s. Trying to remember who all writes this blog? He doesn't make it easy to find his name.
Quote from: Pohjolas Daughter on May 22, 2023, 10:49:37 AMThere is an interesting article on the blog "On An Overgrown Path" which folks here might be interested in: "Classical critics need to talk sound sense" about how companies are remastering classical recordings. https://www.overgrownpath.com/2023/05/classical-critics-need-to-talk-sound.html
Wasn't quite certain where to put this article, but he did also refer to Apple.
PD
p.s. Trying to remember who all writes this blog? He doesn't make it easy to find his name.
One thing that is not mentioned is that Apple Spatial Audio can be turned off. You are not compelled to listen to reprocessed sound if you use Apple Music Streaming. (I've never tried turning it on.)
I also think it's fair to say that there have always been producers who aim produce something superior to the concert hall experience. Tools to attempt this are getting more sophisticated.
Quote from: Spotted Horses on May 22, 2023, 10:56:31 AMOne thing that is not mentioned is that Apple Spatial Audio can be turned off. You are not compelled to listen to reprocessed sound if you use Apple Music Streaming. (I've never tried turning it on.)
I also think it's fair to say that there have always been producers who aim produce something superior to the concert hall experience. Tools to attempt this are getting more sophisticated.
I didn't know that about Apple Spatial Audio. Good to know. I should have added that there is also a kindred article there about Art & Son Studio and (also I think in general) their remastering and does it create an unreal experience for listeners and how that might also impact their expectations re real-life concert performances, etc. It's here: https://www.overgrownpath.com/2023/04/sibelius-remastered-or-reimagined.html
Something to think about.
PD
Quote from: Pohjolas Daughter on May 22, 2023, 11:02:59 AMI didn't know that about Apple Spatial Audio. Good to know. I should have added that there is also a kindred article there about Art & Son Studio and (also I think in general) their remastering and does it create an unreal experience for listeners and how that might also impact their expectations re real-life concert performances, etc. It's here: https://www.overgrownpath.com/2023/04/sibelius-remastered-or-reimagined.html
Something to think about.
PD
I'm probably outing myself as a nay-sayer, but this strikes me as similar "prophet of doom" style of commentary. The whole thing about
remastering being fundamental different from mastering because in
remastering they are trying to distort the content strikes me as an artificial distinction. They can distort the content as much as they want in the "mastering" and often remastering involves finding a better source (an original tape for instance) to get closer to the original signal.
I haven't sought out any of the Art and Sons mastered recordings, but I do have the big Cluytens box which they did and I didn't notice any of the anomalies that are described. I did compare one track to an older master that I already had and my only conclusion was that the hype about it being improved was overblown, they sounded identical to me.
Quote from: Spotted Horses on May 22, 2023, 12:31:32 PMI'm probably outing myself as a nay-sayer, but this strikes me as similar "prophet of doom" style of commentary. The whole thing about remastering being fundamental different from mastering because in remastering they are trying to distort the content strikes me as an artificial distinction. They can distort the content as much as they want in the "mastering" and often remastering involves finding a better source (an original tape for instance) to get closer to the original signal.
I haven't sought out any of the Art and Sons mastered recordings, but I do have the big Cluytens box which they did and I didn't notice any of the anomalies that are described. I did compare one track to an older master that I already had and my only conclusion was that the hype about it being improved was overblown, they sounded identical to me.
True: when doing the initial mastering, it can be shall we say "mucked around with" a lot? I would give him some credit though considering whom he has worked for in the past--at what level, I'm not certain. If I'm recalling correctly, at one point he had something like an "about" on his blog in terms of who he was and background, etc....or perhaps my memory is wrong here? Just would be curious to know more about what kind of jobs and positions that he had reached when he was working there. Oh dear, I just found this. I do remember enjoying reading some of his postings in the past.
"To the right of this column you will find a link to On An Overgrown Path, a blog run and authored by Bob Shingleton. It has been one of the most read classical music blogs across the globe for the past 10 years.
Just as John Terauds shocked readers by announcing his leaving Musical Toronto, and it's subsequent afterlife in my hands, there is another lost to announce to the classical music and opera blogosphere.
Shingleton has decided that he no longer has the same enthusiasm for blogging as he once had, and will be moving on to other things. "I've said my piece and I'll leave it all up to you".
"...Writing long-form is very time consuming, and the fragmentation of posting and commenting across multiple platforms has added to that workload," explained Shingleton in his final post last Sunday. He felt that in recent months the enjoyment of blogging has diminished, and suspected that "if this is the case for the author, it is also the case for the reader."
As a frequent reader of On An Overgrown Path, I will certainly miss his witty intelligence, poise, and thoughtfulness. He was a pioneer in an often fleeting medium, and to have lasted ten years is an accomplishment in itself."
The above is from here: https://www.ludwig-van.com/toronto/2014/03/18/on-an-overgrown-path-loses-its-way/
And this was in one of his blogs:
"My library includes the 2000 EMI Barbirolli Sibelius Edition which was remastered at Abbey Road. I was trained by the BBC as a radio studio manager, and I worked at EMI Classical Division in the late 1970s when the producers and engineers were still using the same technologies and techniques used on the Barbirolli recordings. I auditioned the Art & Son Studio remasters from CD using a studio quality replay system: see footnote for details of this. The following is my personal response to listening extensively to the remasters."
PD
Quote from: Spotted Horses on May 20, 2023, 08:26:57 AMI can feel myself getting sucked into the streaming universe based on noticing what is available on Apple Music (and all seems to be available in lossless format).
But I miss the "booklet." I like to see the recording data (i.e., date and location of recording). And the program notes are of interest, particularly in music that is new to me. That seems to be basically nonexistent in streaming world. Do people miss this, or do some streaming services provide the "booklet?"
The lack of booklets is really annoying and the only downside for me.
Quote from: Spotted Horses on May 22, 2023, 12:31:32 PMI'm probably outing myself as a nay-sayer, but this strikes me as similar "prophet of doom" style of commentary.
No I think the blogger is the naysayer. He is doing the usual audiophile schtick of equating all processing with degrading sound. They're just out of touch. This is not like analog domain. Seems like the same kind of old cranky guy yelling at kids for equalizing their headphones.
It was about time for headphone users to have a bone thrown their way. With nearly all recordings mastered for speaker playback and most people listening on headphones... it is totally strange now.
Quote from: Pohjolas Daughter on May 22, 2023, 10:49:37 AMThere is an interesting article on the blog "On An Overgrown Path"
The author has a very dry sense of humor: "What Norman Lebrecht heard [...] If I was not so completely convinced of his impartiality [...]".
Today I cancelled my Premium Spotify account. I have grown tired of the "upgrades" when each one seems to degrade functionality. And it has become very slow.
For the last few days I've been using Apple Music and am very happy with it. First of all, the sound quality is an improvement over Spotify, and the content seems to be as rich. It is also much better than Amazon Prime Music Unlimited, which for some reason does not display an artists' albums in reverse chronological order. So I may cancel that as well.
Quote from: Daverz on May 22, 2023, 04:46:53 PMThe author has a very dry sense of humor: "What Norman Lebrecht heard [...] If I was not so completely convinced of his impartiality [...]".
;D
Quote from: San Antone on May 22, 2023, 05:48:26 PMToday I cancelled my Premium Spotify account. I have grown tired of the "upgrades" when each one seems to degrade functionality. And it has become very slow.
For the last few days I've been using Apple Music and am very happy with it. First of all, the sound quality is an improvement over Spotify, and the content seems to be as rich. It is also much better than Amazon Prime Music Unlimited, which for some reason does not display an artists' albums in reverse chronological order. So I may cancel that as well.
Glad that you found a service that you like! :)
PD
Quote from: Pohjolas Daughter on May 23, 2023, 12:32:46 AM;D
Glad that you found a service that you like! :)
PD
I most likely will not cancel Amazon Music Unlimited. Last night it was the only service which had the album
Van Morrison,
You Win Again. ???
Quote from: San Antone on May 23, 2023, 04:49:36 AMI most likely will not cancel Amazon Music Unlimited. Last night it was the only service which had the album Van Morrison, You Win Again. ???
*checks Deezer*
It's on Deezer. ;D
I was resistant, but I've been sucked into streaming by Apple Music Lossless. It is going to reduce CD purchases almost to zero, if not zero. For instance, it occurs to me that I should hear Barenboim's Bruckner cycle with the Staatskapelle Berlin. Ordinarily the attractively priced box set would already be on it's way to me. But I have multiple Bruckner cycles already, it is unlikely I will be coming back to this new set over and over, probably good for one listen. No reason not to stream, except that the streamers don't have the booklet.
On the other hand, I've been planning to get Jablonsky's release of Bacewicz piano music, and I will probably go ahead and get it (lossless download). It is important repertoire that is not in my collection and I would be reluctant to be in a position to loose access to it if I lost access to streaming. After all, the current business model may change and streaming services with comprehensive catalogs may morph into something like video streaming, slim pickings. On the other hand, I have Bacewicz' string quartets in a release by the Silelian Quartet. I'm curious about the recordings by the Lutoslawski quartet on Naxos, but I would be content to stream those (unless they turn out to be dramatically superior.)
Another aspect, I'm grateful that I've been able to ascertain that C.P.E. Bach piano music bores me to tears without investing in a box set. :)
(At some level it is galling that after I've spend decades amassing a large collection of classical music, someone can pay $15 per month and effectively have a bigger collection than I do. I guess that is the psychology behind streaming resistance.)
Quote from: Spotted Horses on June 01, 2023, 11:29:57 AMI was resistant, but I've been sucked into streaming by Apple Music Lossless. It is going to reduce CD purchases almost to zero, if not zero. For instance, it occurs to me that I should hear Barenboim's Bruckner cycle with the Staatskapelle Berlin. Ordinarily the attractively priced box set would already be on it's way to me. But I have multiple Bruckner cycles already, it is unlikely I will be coming back to this new set over and over, probably good for one listen. No reason not to stream, except that the streamers don't have the booklet.
On the other hand, I've been planning to get Jablonsky's release of Bacewicz piano music, and I will probably go ahead and get it (lossless download). It is important repertoire that is not in my collection and I would be reluctant to be in a position to loose access to it if I lost access to streaming. After all, the current business model may change and streaming services with comprehensive catalogs may morph into something like video streaming, slim pickings. On the other hand, I have Bacewicz' string quartets in a release by the Silelian Quartet. I'm curious about the recordings by the Lutoslawski quartet on Naxos, but I would be content to stream those (unless they turn out to be dramatically superior.)
Another aspect, I'm grateful that I've been able to ascertain that C.P.E. Bach piano music bores me to tears without investing in a box set. :)
(At some level it is galling that after I've spend decades amassing a large collection of classical music, someone can pay $15 per month and effectively have a bigger collection than I do. I guess that is the psychology behind streaming resistance.)
Interesting thoughts.
So, there's a new twist (level?) to the game of "He with the most toys wins"? 🧐 🤣 😉
PD
Quote from: Spotted Horses on June 01, 2023, 11:29:57 AMIt is going to reduce CD purchases almost to zero, if not zero.
I understand that temptation since I lived that way for years. But I've also seen some of my favorite music come and go. Certainly I don't need to blind buy music anymore (well excepting Simpson's string quartets). Just for the sake of discovery, exploration and convenience streaming wins. But buying favorites that I know are mine without paying a monthly fee is also worth it.
I just settled in a happy equilibrium of the two. I do feel bad for the posters that just refuse to stream, they really don't know what they're missing.
Quote from: Spotted Horses on June 01, 2023, 11:29:57 AM(At some level it is galling that after I've spend decades amassing a large collection of classical music, someone can pay $15 per month and effectively have a bigger collection than I do. I guess that is the psychology behind streaming resistance.)
Could be worse! I had a friend that devoted an enormous amount of time taping and cataloguing their favorite tv shows only to have it made irrelevant with bargain dvd releases and then later with hd streaming.
Quote from: DavidW on June 02, 2023, 05:45:10 AMI understand that temptation since I lived that way for years. But I've also seen some of my favorite music come and go. Certainly I don't need to blind buy music anymore (well excepting Simpson's string quartets). Just for the sake of discovery, exploration and convenience streaming wins. But buying favorites that I know are mine without paying a monthly fee is also worth it.
I just settled in a happy equilibrium of the two. I do feel bad for the posters that just refuse to stream, they really don't know what they're missing.
Are there any streaming services that also allow you to purchase the music too (and in a good lossless format)?
I believe that part of my issue would be trying to find a way that I could hook it up to my good stereo system (and also not having to spend a ton of money to do that).
PD
Quote from: Pohjolas Daughter on June 02, 2023, 05:57:40 AMAre there any streaming services that also allow you to purchase the music too (and in a good lossless format)?
I believe that part of my issue would be trying to find a way that I could hook it up to my good stereo system (and also not having to spend a ton of money to do that).
PD
Qobuz allows you to purchase tracks that you can download as lossless files to your hard disc (or listen to on their app without a subscription). I don't subscribe to their streaming service, but I have purchased from their download store (and the prestoclassical download store).
You just need a DAC to send high quality audio from your computer to your amplifier. I have this one.
https://www.schiit.com/products/modi-plus
If you purchase (and don't just stream) you'd also need a big hard drive (probably and external USB drive, and at least one spare for backup) to store audio files.
What pushed me over the edge was seeing the "lossless" icon in Apple Music. Until then I never considered using it for anything other than pop music.
I have never found hi-rez made any difference, but the idea of degrading sound quality, even to a supposedly unimportant extent, just to save on file size didn't sit well with me.
And I actually find it makes a difference in some cases. I was listening to the Bacewicz/Kupeic recording of piano music and at one point I heard some distortion. I looked in my Apple Music preferences dialog and found that the "lossless" checkbox was unchecked. I activated lossless and the distortion went away. It's not a new recording and maybe the compressed version was made some time ago when the algorithms were not as good as now, but why risk it?
Quote from: Spotted Horses on June 02, 2023, 06:09:46 AMQobuz allows you to purchase tracks that you can download as lossless files to your hard disc (or listen to on their app without a subscription). I don't subscribe to their streaming service, but I have purchased from their download store (and the prestoclassical download store).
You just need a DAC to send high quality audio from your computer to your amplifier. I have this one.
https://www.schiit.com/products/modi-plus
If you purchase (and don't just stream) you'd also need a big hard drive (probably and external USB drive, and at least one spare for backup) to store audio files.
So, if I'm understanding their description correctly, I would use their USB cable to hook it up to my computer? Note: I currently just have 2.0 USB ports.
And how would I hook it up to my stereo system?
PD
Quote from: Pohjolas Daughter on June 02, 2023, 08:05:49 AMSo, if I'm understanding their description correctly, I would use their USB cable to hook it up to my computer? Note: I currently just have 2.0 USB ports.
And how would I hook it up to my stereo system?
PD
I think USB 2.0 is more than fast enough. Audio data rates are pretty low, relatively speaking.
It has RCA connectors on the back, so you would connect it to your amplifier just as you would an old-school CD player.
Quote from: Spotted Horses on June 02, 2023, 08:22:30 AMI think USB 2.0 is more than fast enough. Audio data rates are pretty low, relatively speaking.
It has RCA connectors on the back, so you would connect it to your amplifier just as you would an old-school CD player.
Thanks. I reread the specs and saw under "output" that it had mentioned RCA cables. Nice that it doesn't require a power source if hooked up with USB to a computer.
What sort of things would you attach to it using either a coaxial digital or optical inputs?
I suspect that my biggest conundrum would be: How do I hook up (move?) my computer so that it's close enough to my stereo? Or how long could the RCA cables be without messing up the sound?
And thank you for your help and thoughts! :)
PD
Quote from: Pohjolas Daughter on June 02, 2023, 08:55:13 AMThanks. I reread the specs and saw under "output" that it had mentioned RCA cables. Nice that it doesn't require a power source if hooked up with USB to a computer.
What sort of things would you attach to it using either a coaxial digital or optical inputs?
I suspect that my biggest conundrum would be: How do I hook up (move?) my computer so that it's close enough to my stereo? Or how long could the RCA cables be without messing up the sound?
And thank you for your help and thoughts! :)
PD
I think the maximum recommended length for a USB 2.0 cable is 5m (16 ft). I have not used RCA cables longer than 6 ft, but I don't know what the recommended limit is. I think I have used a 20 ft TOSLINK optical cable in the past. The signal chain was computer -> USB cable -> USB/TOSLINK converter -> optical cable -> DAC -> RCA cable -> receiver.
Quote from: Spotted Horses on June 02, 2023, 09:28:03 AMI think the maximum recommended length for a USB 2.0 cable is 5m (16 ft). I have not used RCA cables longer than 6 ft, but I don't know what the recommended limit is. I think I have used a 20 ft TOSLINK optical cable in the past. The signal chain was computer -> USB cable -> USB/TOSLINK converter -> optical cable -> DAC -> RCA cable -> receiver.
Thanks. I'll do a bit more research. The place where I'm thinking of shifting my iMac to (on top of a printer desk in the living room). If I shifted it there, I think that I could run a 16 footer USB cable under the carpet and around to the back of my tv/stereo cabinet....and probably fit a small DAC next to my cable box (or on top of it if need be) which is under my t.v. And then run a relatively short RCA cable to the back of my preamp (leading it up behind the cabinet).
PD
I think in general terms long RCA is preferable to long USB.
It's very easy to get caught up in the perceived technicalities of streaming and lose sight of the fact that there are simple solutions that 'just work'.
For example, any modern TV can stream music. If the TV has RCA outs, then there ya go. Mine only has optical out, so if I didn't already have a DAC I'd have to interpose a cheap DAC - this is just a black box with optical in and RCA out and can cost as little as £20 or as much as £2000 (hint: the audible difference is almost negligible - certainly no need to spend more than £100). If you have an older TV that isn't 'smart' you can just plug a Fire Stick in the back - cheap enough, and any Fire device can stream music through the TV.
One dubious plus when you stream this way - you get album art on your big screen!
Another way, ideal for people who have forgotten what their phone is really for - get a Bluetooth receiver, again this is a cheap black box, this time with a stubby aerial, and RCA out. Pair the receiver with your phone, now anything you can stream on your phone you can hear on your main system.
These solutions may not seem satisfactory for audiophiles (I am an audiophile by the way) but in fact they get pretty close and are certainly more than good enough for dipping a toe in and seeing what streaming is all about.
The best audiophile-ready solution (this is what I do) is a dedicated streamer. This is just a black box with optical or RCA out, or usually both. Again they start around £100 and go up to £x000s - in terms of audio quality the cheapest ones are absolutely fine. It hooks into your WiFi and like any such device, requires a bit of initial setup via a web interface. To control it - browse and play music - remember this is just a black box - this is usually done with a free phone or tablet app.
For popular cheap streamers, search for Wiim, Bluesound or Yamaha. I have no direct experience of it, but the Yamaha WXC-50 looks like a very interesting 'starter' device. I have the Wiim Mini (£76) in my 2nd system and it's absolutely fine if a bit techy to get the best out of it. The Bluesound UI (phone app) has a good reputation.
I suppose all this is my way of saying - I know a lot of people do this, but I don't think hooking up a computer with long or short cables is a great way to go. You tie down your valuable/useful computer, it's hard to remote-control it, there's cables everywhere, and computers often aren't set up well to be an audio source. If you have an old Chrome Book lying around doing nothing, well maybe use that.
Consider also whether some or all of your devices are capable of wifi, or can be made so.
The CD unit I bought a few years ago can also receive streaming on wifi (and could also receive a USB stick for example). Amazingly when I got it the model was discontinued (I might have got the 2nd-last one in the country) and there wasn't a direct replacement, but I think I did see other brands that could do something similar. I'm regularly sending it audio from my iPhone or from iTunes on my computer.
And my rather old PC was made wifi capable just by sticking a little Wifi adapter in the USB port. Cost me $79, I think there were cheaper ones than that but picked a brand/model that seemed trustworthy. In my new house, running cables everywhere wasn't practical. The place I wanted the computer to be was much too far away from where the internet connection to the house comes in, and so the only reason I can type this message right now (or send music or video to other devices in the house) is that little adapter, which has been 99% reliable over the last 15-16 months.
I don't always get certain combinations to be completely smooth, but these days I'm regularly sending signals between my PC, my CD player speakers, the Apple TV that's connected to my television, the actual television, and my iPhone. Pretty much all on wifi. Plus occasionally the portable bluetooth speakers that I unexpectedly won. It's frankly a lot more convenient than physical cables, and downtime is pretty rare. Occasionally I have to restart the router if it goes wrong, but that's... maybe averages an issue every couple of months? I can live with that.
Quote from: aukhawk on June 03, 2023, 01:43:01 AMI suppose all this is my way of saying - I know a lot of people do this, but I don't think hooking up a computer with long or short cables is a great way to go. You tie down your valuable/useful computer, it's hard to remote-control it, there's cables everywhere, and computers often aren't set up well to be an audio source. If you have an old Chrome Book lying around doing nothing, well maybe use that.
It also makes sense to me that a dedicated streamer is a good option, but I have no experience with such devices and have no wisdom to impart. In my case, I've just dipped my toe in streaming, but have spend years "streaming" music from an external hard drive with ~2TB of flac files that I've ripped from CDs or, more recently, downloaded. The only place I can listen to music is in the office where I have my desktop PC, so hard wiring a DAC to it is a no-brainer.
Quote from: aukhawk on June 03, 2023, 01:43:01 AMI think in general terms long RCA is preferable to long USB.
It's very easy to get caught up in the perceived technicalities of streaming and lose sight of the fact that there are simple solutions that 'just work'.
For example, any modern TV can stream music. If the TV has RCA outs, then there ya go. Mine only has optical out, so if I didn't already have a DAC I'd have to interpose a cheap DAC - this is just a black box with optical in and RCA out and can cost as little as £20 or as much as £2000 (hint: the audible difference is almost negligible - certainly no need to spend more than £100). If you have an older TV that isn't 'smart' you can just plug a Fire Stick in the back - cheap enough, and any Fire device can stream music through the TV.
One dubious plus when you stream this way - you get album art on your big screen!
Another way, ideal for people who have forgotten what their phone is really for - get a Bluetooth receiver, again this is a cheap black box, this time with a stubby aerial, and RCA out. Pair the receiver with your phone, now anything you can stream on your phone you can hear on your main system.
These solutions may not seem satisfactory for audiophiles (I am an audiophile by the way) but in fact they get pretty close and are certainly more than good enough for dipping a toe in and seeing what streaming is all about.
The best audiophile-ready solution (this is what I do) is a dedicated streamer. This is just a black box with optical or RCA out, or usually both. Again they start around £100 and go up to £x000s - in terms of audio quality the cheapest ones are absolutely fine. It hooks into your WiFi and like any such device, requires a bit of initial setup via a web interface. To control it - browse and play music - remember this is just a black box - this is usually done with a free phone or tablet app.
For popular cheap streamers, search for Wiim, Bluesound or Yamaha. I have no direct experience of it, but the Yamaha WXC-50 looks like a very interesting 'starter' device. I have the Wiim Mini (£76) in my 2nd system and it's absolutely fine if a bit techy to get the best out of it. The Bluesound UI (phone app) has a good reputation.
I suppose all this is my way of saying - I know a lot of people do this, but I don't think hooking up a computer with long or short cables is a great way to go. You tie down your valuable/useful computer, it's hard to remote-control it, there's cables everywhere, and computers often aren't set up well to be an audio source. If you have an old Chrome Book lying around doing nothing, well maybe use that.
Thank you so much for your suggestions!
Update: I used the AI assistant on the website for the Modi makers. They recommend (re USB cables) keeping them to 2 meters or less. :(
Looked into possibly getting a Fire stick. Firstly, I need to double-check what my Wifi setup is (It's old) to see which one would be compatible. Secondly, I looked at the back of my t.v. (and also at the manual). One of the two HDMI ports is hooked up to my DVD/SACD, etc. player and the second is hooked up to my cable box.
I suspect that the sound would be pretty bad if I used my old iPhone 6 and Bluetooth. I could also get a Bluetooth receiver and believe that I could plug it into the back of my pre-amp (using RCA cables) and plug the power plug into my Panamax surge protector component. I could then experiment listening to streaming services using one of my computers...possibly before deciding to commit to a streamer.
This Bluetooth streamer got a nice write-up at Crutchfield's. Just checked the price though--$189. Hmmm...
Here's the review. Are you or anyone else here familiar with it? https://www.crutchfield.com/S-dkUKneVB1d6/learn/how-to-add-bluetooth-to-your-home-stereo-system.html
I'll look into the streamers that you mentioned later on this weekend. Thanks again!
PD
Quote from: Madiel on June 03, 2023, 06:05:15 AMConsider also whether some or all of your devices are capable of wifi, or can be made so.
The CD unit I bought a few years ago can also receive streaming on wifi (and could also receive a USB stick for example). Amazingly when I got it the model was discontinued (I might have got the 2nd-last one in the country) and there wasn't a direct replacement, but I think I did see other brands that could do something similar. I'm regularly sending it audio from my iPhone or from iTunes on my computer.
And my rather old PC was made wifi capable just by sticking a little Wifi adapter in the USB port. Cost me $79, I think there were cheaper ones than that but picked a brand/model that seemed trustworthy. In my new house, running cables everywhere wasn't practical. The place I wanted the computer to be was much too far away from where the internet connection to the house comes in, and so the only reason I can type this message right now (or send music or video to other devices in the house) is that little adapter, which has been 99% reliable over the last 15-16 months.
I don't always get certain combinations to be completely smooth, but these days I'm regularly sending signals between my PC, my CD player speakers, the Apple TV that's connected to my television, the actual television, and my iPhone. Pretty much all on wifi. Plus occasionally the portable bluetooth speakers that I unexpectedly won. It's frankly a lot more convenient than physical cables, and downtime is pretty rare. Occasionally I have to restart the router if it goes wrong, but that's... maybe averages an issue every couple of months? I can live with that.
Good thoughts/considerations.
You and Spotted H. were also typing while I was, but in a nutshell, a lot of my equipment is on the old side, so it doesn't have a number of "newer" capabilities (see above).
PD
In your position my 1st choice would have been to get a Fire Stick but given the limitations you describe my 2nd choice would be a Bluetooth receiver, but I would be trying for a price point around half that you mention. The Harmon-Kardon one from that Crutchfield site might be more the mark. I have no experience of Bluetooth receivers personally, but I have read loads of anecdotal stuff by people who have got good results this way, I have no reason to doubt that it's a viable way forward.
Think - any cheap 'digital' device (be it TV, BT receiver, DAC, Streamer, PC) that has RCA outs, will have a cheap DAC on board. The quality of DAC directly affects the audio quality you get. In all probability this DAC will be at the same sort of level that a standalone £20 DAC would offer. These often measure pretty badly but - its very moot how much these measurements translate into anything audible. I use a £15 standalone DAC in my 2nd system and it sounds just fine. You'd have to pay a lot for any digital device (£500 or more) for the included DAC to rise above that level.
And - Bluetooth is continually evolving and improving. This means any Bluetooth connection is going to be limited by the older of the two connected devices. If you buy a new Bluetoooth receiver then regardless of what you pay the limiting factor is almost certain to be your phone or computer. For this reason I wouldn't spend too much.
@Spotted Horses, I have the Modi 3+ DAC and it is excellent. It's now been superseded by the one that you've got.
The Audio Engine B1 in PDs post has a sibling which is this:
https://www.digidirect.com.au/catalog/product/view/id/57910/s/audioengine-b-fi-multiroom-music-streamer?gclid=CjwKCAjwyeujBhA5EiwA5WD7_TawcxI7zpGtl9fKtefEKysaB9qKeBIIMja7_Wnq7vj4ev2GqcFvyhoCyMQQAvD_BwE
It allows you to use it via your home WiFi network and is controlled by an app on your iPhone, android, etc. I've got it but don't use it much at the moment because the couple next door have a young baby so I stick to listening via my near field speakers and headphones attached to my PC
One thing that I did learn about that Bluetooth receiver that I had linked to was that it goes to sleep after 10 minutes (and thereby mutes the sound). Apparently you just need to refresh it, but still....that seems like I would find it to be very annoying--particularly if I was listening to longer pieces of music (symphonies, operas, etc.).
See the first (top) question here: https://www.crutchfield.com/p_772B1ADPT/Audioengine-B1.html
PD
Quote from: Pohjolas Daughter on June 04, 2023, 04:33:58 AMOne thing that I did learn about that Bluetooth receiver that I had linked to was that it goes to sleep after 10 minutes (and thereby mutes the sound). Apparently you just need to refresh it, but still....that seems like I would find it to be very annoying--particularly if I was listening to longer pieces of music (symphonies, operas, etc.).
See the first (top) question here: https://www.crutchfield.com/p_772B1ADPT/Audioengine-B1.html
PD
QuoteThank you for your question, Gary. The B1 automatically powers down and mutes the output after approximately 10 minutes. The BT input, however, is still active so you can just pair to it again without pressing the front-panel button. B1 will remain on if a device is paired with it and turned on though.
Seems like it will stay on as long as the device it is paired with is on, so turning off during use wouldn't be a problem. After 10 minutes in which your source is idle you might have to pair again.
Bluetooth always makes me uneasy because sometimes it works effortlessly and sometimes 'pairing' is a frustrating process.
Quote from: Spotted Horses on June 04, 2023, 04:52:23 AMSeems like it will stay on as long as the device it is paired with is on, so turning off during use wouldn't be a problem. After 10 minutes in which your source is idle you might have to pair again.
Bluetooth always makes me uneasy because sometimes it works effortlessly and sometimes 'pairing' is a frustrating process.
I had wondered about the wording of their response. It had seemed to me quite strange that it would automatically mute after 10 minutes. I might give them a call on Monday to clarify things.
Enough computer stuff for the time being; I'm off to put on some music! :)
PD
Skip Bluetooth, stick with wifi, and go with a cheap Dayton Audio streamer, which cost between $52 and $70 each for the bottom end units. (They also support Bluetooth.) They have an optical out to use proper DACs and support a goodly number of streaming services. A phone or tablet is needed to control the units. Sound quality is at least 16/44.1 when using wifi. I don't know if they stream hi res as I have never tried. Expensive streamers are up there with expensive record clamps in terms of bang for the buck - unless people believe they really can hear beyond 22.05 KHz and their systems really can reproduce more than 16-bit dynamic range.
Quote from: Todd on June 04, 2023, 06:24:13 AMSkip Bluetooth, stick with wifi, and go with a cheap Dayton Audio streamer, which cost between $52 and $70 each for the bottom end units. (They also support Bluetooth.) They have an optical out to use proper DACs and support a goodly number of streaming services. A phone or tablet is needed to control the units. Sound quality is at least 16/44.1 when using wifi. I don't know if they stream hi res as I have never tried. Expensive streamers are up there with expensive record clamps in terms of bang for the buck - unless people believe they really can hear beyond 22.05 KHz and their systems really can reproduce more than 16-bit dynamic range.
Thank you for the suggestion! :) A friend of mine (when talking about this yesterday and looking into various options) wondered whether or not I could hook something up to my Pioneer DVD/SACD, etc. player and use the DAC in it? It's a Pioneer Elite DV-79AVi. Would something like this be possible with what you are suggesting?
PD
Quote from: Pohjolas Daughter on June 04, 2023, 09:53:28 AMWould something like this be possible with what you are suggesting?
I'm not familiar with the Pioneer unit. If it has an optical input, then yes, it could be used as a DAC. If not, it can't.
Quote from: Todd on June 04, 2023, 10:00:04 AMI'm not familiar with the Pioneer unit. If it has an optical input, then yes, it could be used as a DAC. If not, it can't.
Well, I double-checked the booklet, and nope! But thank you anyway for the info.
PD
Quote from: Pohjolas Daughter on June 04, 2023, 01:29:11 PMWell, I double-checked the booklet, and nope! But thank you anyway for the info.
PD
I had a Marantz CD/SACD which had digital inputs (TOSLINK Optical and Coax) and for a while I used it as a DAC. The sound wave great but after some time I noticed it had a habit of taking about half a second to detect that it was receiving a signal, so that when starting a track a fraction of a second would get cut off. I'm sure it was the Marantz player because the problem occurred no matter what the source of the optical signal was, and if I fed the same optical signal into another DAC there was no problem. Anyway, I got the Schiit Audio DAC and the SACD player went to the electronics recycling dump.
So my thought is, better to get something that is a dedicated DAC, rather than something where the digital streaming interface is an afterthought.
For a while I used an old minidisc recorder as a DAC ;D it served very well.
Thank you gents!
PD
Quote from: Pohjolas Daughter on June 02, 2023, 05:57:40 AMAre there any streaming services that also allow you to purchase the music too (and in a good lossless format)?
I believe that part of my issue would be trying to find a way that I could hook it up to my good stereo system (and also not having to spend a ton of money to do that).
PD
Didn't realize I had been gone so long. I wanted to say that if you use a receiver made anytime in the past 10 years it probably has Spotify direct. You can use a phone or a tablet with the Spotify app and have the receiver (if connected to wifi) stream and play the music directly.
If not that then you can connect your tv to your stereo and use the Spotify app that is on every tv. I'm not the biggest fan of Spotify but I have to admit that they have managed to integrate themselves on seemingly any device that can connect to the internet.
Finally many connect a laptop to their receiver and then they can play anything.
Quote from: DavidW on June 07, 2023, 05:39:19 AMDidn't realize I had been gone so long. I wanted to say that if you use a receiver made anytime in the past 10 years it probably has Spotify direct. You can use a phone or a tablet with the Spotify app and have the receiver (if connected to wifi) stream and play the music directly.
If not that then you can connect your tv to your stereo and use the Spotify app that is on every tv. I'm not the biggest fan of Spotify but I have to admit that they have managed to integrate themselves on seemingly any device that can connect to the internet.
Finally many connect a laptop to their receiver and then they can play anything.
Hi David,
My tv is a "dumb" one. Most of my stereo equipment dates back (when purchased--not necessarily first manufactured) to 2014 and doesn't have any wi-fi connections built in directly (which is why I've been looking into various less direct options). But thank you! :)
Actually, I just remembered something! Some years back, I was looking into being able to do something along these lines. I dug through my drawer of remotes, various audio manuals, etc. and realized that I have an old AirPortExpress which I had never even opened! :-[ This might still work for me.
PD
PD
Now that I've dipped my toe into streaming, I only stream if a recording is not in my collection (on my hard disk). It occurs to me that I should stream recordings that I have. That way I'm at least sending a nickel to the performer and/or recording publisher.
Quote from: Spotted Horses on June 17, 2023, 08:19:50 AMNow that I've dipped my toe into streaming, I only stream if a recording is not in my collection (on my hard disk). It occurs to me that I should stream recordings that I have. That way I'm at least sending a nickel to the performer and/or recording publisher.
But you sent them money by purchasing the album in the first place. And on most services, you would have to stream it a huge number of times to send the same amount of money as you did through the purchase.
I also stick to that plan (stream only things I don't own) but more out of self-guilt of, "you own that, you should listen to your copy!" It's a CDCDCD side effect. I bought all this stuff, now I need to get my money's worth instead of streaming it ;D ;D
Quote from: Brian on June 17, 2023, 01:31:25 PMI also stick to that plan (stream only things I don't own) but more out of self-guilt of, "you own that, you should listen to your copy!" It's a CDCDCD side effect. I bought all this stuff, now I need to get my money's worth instead of streaming it ;D ;D
I'll stream things that I own if I'm not home. When I was in grad school I used to take a backpack of cds with me to listen to when I went into the office. Now I can just stream them if I want!
Quote from: DavidW on June 17, 2023, 02:15:09 PMI'll stream things that I own if I'm not home. When I was in grad school I used to take a backpack of cds with me to listen to when I went into the office. Now I can just stream them if I want!
My first job out of college banned me from streaming because I was "using too much internet" so I had to fill an office desk drawer with CDs!
Quote from: Madiel on June 17, 2023, 08:57:13 AMBut you sent them money by purchasing the album in the first place. And on most services, you would have to stream it a huge number of times to send the same amount of money as you did through the purchase.
I'm talking about things I've purchased years ago, can't hurt to send them a few more pennies.
The main reason I would go to my ripped copy is that I also have scans of the booklets.
Quote from: DavidW on June 17, 2023, 02:15:09 PMI'll stream things that I own if I'm not home. When I was in grad school I used to take a backpack of cds with me to listen to when I went into the office. Now I can just stream them if I want!
I'll occasionally stream things that I own when I'm not home because... they're not loaded onto my iPhone.
Admittedly a lot less of the classical collection is on the phone than the popular music collection. But that's okay because for classical I'm less likely to want to listen to it at work.
Quote from: Spotted Horses on June 17, 2023, 03:17:48 PMI'm talking about things I've purchased years ago, can't hurt to send them a few more pennies.
Probably fractions of a penny, but if you wish.
Quote from: Brian on June 17, 2023, 02:54:26 PMMy first job out of college banned me from streaming because I was "using too much internet" so I had to fill an office desk drawer with CDs!
Wow so stingy!
Quote from: Madiel on June 17, 2023, 03:47:21 PMProbably fractions of a penny, but if you wish.
I do so hope that it's better than that. :( These days though (not even getting into past agreements between record companies and artists)? I do appreciate artists like Taylor Swift for bringing attention to (for a lot of people) and fighting against some of the PTB.
PD
Quote from: Pohjolas Daughter on June 17, 2023, 04:35:18 PMI do so hope that it's better than that. :( These days though (not even getting into past agreements between record companies and artists)? I do appreciate artists like Taylor Swift for bringing attention to (for a lot of people) and fighting against some of the PTB.
PD
Spotify still reportedly pays between 0.3 and 0.5 cents per stream.
Think about how much you, the listener, pay per month. Then think about how much music you might listen to in that month. Sure, usage will vary, but I can't imagine a service like Spotify wants to be losing money on its heaviest users.
Quote from: Madiel on June 17, 2023, 06:25:56 PMSpotify still reportedly pays between 0.3 and 0.5 cents per stream.
Think about how much you, the listener, pay per month. Then think about how much music you might listen to in that month. Sure, usage will vary, but I can't imagine a service like Spotify wants to be losing money on its heaviest users.
Doing a quick check, it looks like it's anywhere from $4.99/month (premium - student) to $9.99 - for single person - premium. No idea what the cost is with ads. And more $ if a family account. And that's in US dollars. Haven't tried it myself. Wonder how much money Spotify pulls in with the ads?
PD
Quote from: Madiel on June 17, 2023, 06:25:56 PMSpotify still reportedly pays between 0.3 and 0.5 cents per stream.
Think about how much you, the listener, pay per month. Then think about how much music you might listen to in that month. Sure, usage will vary, but I can't imagine a service like Spotify wants to be losing money on its heaviest users.
Yes, I read Apple Music pays $0.005 per track, and costs $15 per month. That means if you listen to 3,000 tracks they break even. If you assume 4 minutes per track, that is 12,000 hours, or about 7 hours per day.
I'm sure they're willing to loose money on their heaviest users if they make money on the average user. If they boost the price to make heavy users profitable they will presumably loose a large fraction of their light users. I'm sure their most valued users are those who barely use the service and can't be bothered to cancel.
I've also come across mention of a "mechanical royalty" of 1.75 cents per minute which applies when someone explicitly presses play on a track. I don't know what to make of that. The streaming services wouldn't be viable of that royalty got paid any substantial fraction of the time.
Quote from: Pohjolas Daughter on June 18, 2023, 02:35:03 AMDoing a quick check, it looks like it's anywhere from $4.99/month (premium - student) to $9.99 - for single person - premium. No idea what the cost is with ads. And more $ if a family account. And that's in US dollars. Haven't tried it myself. Wonder how much money Spotify pulls in with the ads?
PD
I think the Spotify model is to split the entire revenue based on percentage of what is streamed the most over the entire community instead of you personally. So you can listen to all classical music, but Spotify will be giving most of your money to Joe Rogan anyway.
Quote from: DavidW on June 18, 2023, 07:57:16 AMI think the Spotify model is to split the entire revenue based on percentage of what is streamed the most over the entire community instead of you personally. So you can listen to all classical music, but Spotify will be giving most of your money to Joe Rogan anyway.
Your fees go into a big pot of money, and royalties come out of the pot of money. When you stream classical you increase the percentage of classical streamed, and send more money to the classical artists. The effect is the same.
Ok, seems like I'm morphing into a streamer. I just listened to the Takacs quartet's Beethoven on Apple Music (lossless) even though I have the FLAC files on my hard disk (why bother to find the folder). I also listened to the 1951 Budapest Quartet recording on Apple Music, which I found revelatory. But I feel uncomfortable that I don't have the Budapest on physical media or a download that I have permanent access too. Those recordings might very well disappear from streaming services But the downloads are absurdly expensive (they charge $13 per disc, and they've divided the full set into 12 short discs corresponding, I think, to the original LPs). $156 for 1951 recordings! (There's also an out-of-print "United Archive" set floating around, possibly bootleg from LPs). I guess I will rely on streaming, but I don't like it for a set of recordings I find so significant.
A quick perusal of eBay suggests CDs might be cheaper. ;D
This is one of the things about downloads. The price often never gets adjusted and there isn't a secondary market.
Quote from: Madiel on June 23, 2023, 08:06:49 AMA quick perusal of eBay suggests CDs might be cheaper. ;D
Cheaper? Best offer I see is $350.
eBay listing (https://www.ebay.com/itm/185950001904?hash=item2b4b7bdaf0:g:8cYAAOSw8mpkkOxi&amdata=enc%3AAQAIAAAA0HFSJjeZ5PUBqv5cnMbjpuGVCvJcuVW5VOx8AEWira7lobRuOZnJt2G0asIrwkdq2KixlBEMVW156SG89v4lts9FP5XHpYWJDaT6RMYJ1n3VZ0P%2FGhG4p04dJokqwd5zHX%2FSZhvH%2B0HF8bpZ9KZvlBkOQlZOKlkzAXRIredaZoH4dRkerHZQplvPeF0cF3O%2By9hY7LGLH%2BB6GRiYvDjo0CapJQmAFpIkmKt3yPG75Lqrspz2QHE0Y0Njf4ycrpn%2B4E%2F05dAC%2FILR5TE5A0GNWsQ%3D%7Ctkp%3ABk9SR-qHpJKdYg)
There is a 1959 Budapest set that is a lot quicker.
Quote from: Madiel on June 23, 2023, 08:06:49 AMThis is one of the things about downloads. The price often never gets adjusted and there isn't a secondary market.
And there can be a lot of variation depending on the vendor. Qobuz sells Naxos downloads for half the price of Prestoclassical.
Admittedly many of the single CDs I can see, I can't immediately tell which Budapest Quartet recording they might be if they did multiple.
But also this. https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/265557776541?epid=21050204802&hash=item3dd47a189d:g:hf4AAOSwmnpiEWDW&amdata=enc%3AAQAIAAAA8DH%2FupcDNzSDo4pEm7SYD0txEANLjls17d10bMRl48iPFTLUbDga75bJSSlPqcQhbYVp6FIXujspzjPEIrXQBSCGSZYkLVlpd4UiIAeot0coZxtTmxgN%2B3OpKIBYMf7p9mVOHgGNfmXqXLYv0g2bPbHRhPLiZS505%2FVGdQzSFo1bA1raNKCGhUkQCDbW%2B220p%2BHXm%2B7Hvfw1UlR47gvkWbvisWOEOA8R7%2FUXVsNZXFsWbKikZ7fN4kDSF4W%2Fxa8009emgN0Hq8orUXSzNSR3WgR5y5QI6kzkK8s5xwK76DlIkYkAuXFYpsxj8EYT1pAl1Q%3D%3D%7Ctkp%3ABFBM2NXSpJ1i
Quote from: Madiel on June 23, 2023, 02:07:45 PMAdmittedly many of the single CDs I can see, I can't immediately tell which Budapest Quartet recording they might be if they did multiple.
But also this. https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/265557776541?epid=21050204802&hash=item3dd47a189d:g:hf4AAOSwmnpiEWDW&amdata=enc%3AAQAIAAAA8DH%2FupcDNzSDo4pEm7SYD0txEANLjls17d10bMRl48iPFTLUbDga75bJSSlPqcQhbYVp6FIXujspzjPEIrXQBSCGSZYkLVlpd4UiIAeot0coZxtTmxgN%2B3OpKIBYMf7p9mVOHgGNfmXqXLYv0g2bPbHRhPLiZS505%2FVGdQzSFo1bA1raNKCGhUkQCDbW%2B220p%2BHXm%2B7Hvfw1UlR47gvkWbvisWOEOA8R7%2FUXVsNZXFsWbKikZ7fN4kDSF4W%2Fxa8009emgN0Hq8orUXSzNSR3WgR5y5QI6kzkK8s5xwK76DlIkYkAuXFYpsxj8EYT1pAl1Q%3D%3D%7Ctkp%3ABFBM2NXSpJ1i
That box is available in the US for $150, which is not cheap either. https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_nkw=0889854970628&_sacat=0&_sop=15
Quote from: Mapman on June 23, 2023, 02:13:21 PMThat box is available in the US for $150, which is not cheap either. https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_nkw=0889854970628&_sacat=0&_sop=15
For some reason that did not show up when I searched for keywords, only searching for the catalog number. At that price it is about the same as getting all of the flac downloads. Not viable for me because I already purchased the downloads covering the late quartets. Getting the remaining downloads is way cheaper.
The list of Hyperion disc available for streaming.
https://www.hyperion-streaming.co.uk/?dm_i=10ZR%2C8D3FP%2CBUN7YU%2CYGY05%2C1
Quote from: Harry on August 04, 2023, 01:14:40 AMThe list of Hyperion disc available for streaming.
https://www.hyperion-streaming.co.uk/?dm_i=10ZR%2C8D3FP%2CBUN7YU%2CYGY05%2C1
Having a link is better than needing to navigate through a streaming service to find the list, especially if just checking for updates. Thanks!
The first time I see an incomplete album on Idagio in nearly two years of using them. There's a second entry for this album... with the same one track.
I have flashbacks of that Qobuz syndrom :laugh:
Quote from: Papy Oli on August 05, 2023, 01:05:48 AMThe first time I see an incomplete album on Idagio in nearly two years of using them. There's a second entry for this album... with the same one track.
I have flashbacks of that Qobuz syndrom :laugh:
Does Qobuz currently have that problem? Anyone here know?
PD
Quote from: Papy Oli on August 05, 2023, 01:05:48 AMThe first time I see an incomplete album on Idagio in nearly two years of using them. There's a second entry for this album... with the same one track.
I have flashbacks of that Qobuz syndrom :laugh:
Idagio is very nice service, I used it for a while. Unfortunately, regular streamers don't see Idagio like they see Qobuz or Tidal, which makes Idagio somewhat useless. You can send a signal from Idagio in your smartphone to the streamer, but the sound quality is seriously compromised in this scenario.
Quote from: Pohjolas Daughter on August 05, 2023, 02:32:34 AMDoes Qobuz currently have that problem? Anyone here know?
PD
Not anymore!
Quote from: Pohjolas Daughter on August 05, 2023, 02:32:34 AMDoes Qobuz currently have that problem? Anyone here know?
PD
Qobuz sometimes shows albums where only one or more tracks are available for playback. As in the case with Yuja Wang's album below. However, this album will not be officially released before 1st of September.
Quote from: Pohjolas Daughter on August 05, 2023, 02:32:34 AMDoes Qobuz currently have that problem? Anyone here know?
PD
I think Dutton is the only label I have seen where Qobuz only has some tracks from the albums.
Quote from: Harry on August 05, 2023, 05:00:19 AMNot anymore!
Quote from: Brian on August 05, 2023, 06:19:24 AMI think Dutton is the only label I have seen where Qobuz only has some tracks from the albums.
That's an improvement at least.
All the Chandos records still in my playlists of old (label, with BIS, which were the main cause of my aggravation back then) seem fine now (unless the whole album has been moved to a new entry).
As you were then :)
Quote from: Brian on August 05, 2023, 06:19:24 AMI think Dutton is the only label I have seen where Qobuz only has some tracks from the albums.
Not true Brian, at least not in Europe, there are many Dutton albums on Qobuz, complete and all, the only thing that is missing, are PDF files, Dutton doesn't see the necessity for that it seems.
Quote from: AnotherSpin on August 05, 2023, 05:38:13 AMQobuz sometimes shows albums where only one or more tracks are available for playback. As in the case with Yuja Wang's album below. However, this album will not be officially released before 1st of September.
The reasons lies not with Qobuz, but with the record companies. DGG is one example of doing this. Many of the releases are in tracks not in complete albums, as if saying "if you like this one track and want more, buy the download or CD. "
Quote from: AnotherSpin on August 05, 2023, 05:38:13 AMQobuz sometimes shows albums where only one or more tracks are available for playback. As in the case with Yuja Wang's album below. However, this album will not be officially released before 1st of September.
This is an album I can't wait to hear. I streamed Variation 18 when I saw the announcement for this in new releases.
Excellent.
This was a new feature added to Roon a few months ago- being able to stream your own library outside of your Roon network (whatever Roon calls that). This is intriguing to me because I have tons of albums where my preferred CD mastering is not on the streaming service. For instance Pearl's transfers of Edwin Fischer playing WTC has zero noise reduction, the EMI transfer on Qobuz sounds pretty bad.
What I currently do is haul around a hard drive between our main house and lake house but there are many instances where I haven't had music I wanted to listen to that I hadn't put on that drive yet.
Quote from: Zauberschloss on August 05, 2023, 07:41:47 AMThis was a new feature added to Roon a few months ago- being able to stream your own library outside of your Roon network (whatever Roon calls that). This is intriguing to me because I have tons of albums where my preferred CD mastering is not on the streaming service. For instance Pearl's transfers of Edwin Fischer playing WTC has zero noise reduction, the EMI transfer on Qobuz sounds pretty bad.
What I currently do is haul around a hard drive between our main house and lake house but there are many instances where I haven't had music I wanted to listen to that I hadn't put on that drive yet.
Qobuz has Edwin Fischer's WTC on Nimbus, it sounds more natural than EMI version.
Thanks, gents, for the further info. :)
PD
Quote from: Zauberschloss on August 05, 2023, 07:17:51 AMThis is an album I can't wait to hear. I streamed Variation 18 when I saw the announcement for this in new releases.
Excellent.
If you were needing another YW live fix, she was playing the Paganini Variations at the Proms last night (link below). A typically exuberant and transparent performance it was. Most people here probably know this already, but in the Prom's intro I learnt that earlier this year she played all of Rachmaninov's works for piano & orchestra in Carnegie Hall on the same night! I mean, how on earth! I'm guessing she has plenty of Weetabix for breakfast.
The order was PC 2, 1, 4, Pag V, Pc 3, seems like a good way to go. It made me laugh that after all that she also played an encore (Gluck - Dance Of The Blessed Spirits). 8)
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m001p2jm
Quote from: Pohjolas Daughter on August 05, 2023, 02:32:34 AMDoes Qobuz currently have that problem? Anyone here know?
PD
There are a few labels where this is a problem on Qobuz, besides Dutton: some Mirare releases and La Dolce Volta come to mind, but I occasionally find a stray Naxos or BIS with missing streamable tracks (almost always the longest track(s) on a given album). Maybe this is only the US? Don't know.
And yes, it's not Qobuz's fault but the labels.' Don't get me started on the morons at Universal who truncated tracks on a lot of earlier digitized Decca/Philips/DG releases. See the Sawallisch Tannhauser on Philips for an example. Initially, I thought they were upsampling mp3s to flac (since mp3 isn't a natively gapless codec like flac), but then I noticed it happened most on tracks where it was almost silent at the end, where the sound frequencies might not have a reached a silence filter's threshold. Again, though, this is just speculation: I have no proof. Could have had something to do with the old watermarking Universal used too, i.e., maybe that had some kind of silence filter, or maybe the truncating was a result of the watermarking itself. I'd actually be curious how the whole process was done.
Anyway, whatever they did, it makes listening to operas or pieces where tracks are otherwise gapless (between movements 3 and 4 of Beethoven's 5th, say) annoying to say the least. Thankfully, whatever they did, they stopped, generally speaking, on releases after about 2010 or so.
A propos of the subject of this thread, Alex Ross has a few things to say: https://www.newyorker.com/culture/cultural-comment/apple-again-fails-to-save-classical-music
Quote from: MishaK on November 06, 2023, 07:50:46 PMA propos of the subject of this thread, Alex Ross has a few things to say: https://www.newyorker.com/culture/cultural-comment/apple-again-fails-to-save-classical-music
This was excellent, thank you. It was fair, smart, occasionally mean (the bit about the AI-generated "moods"), and honest (the ending - that the value of recorded music is now almost nothing). It does pique my interest about switching (from Qobuz) to Presto or Idagio - that listening game feature where you can compare recordings directly sounds like a very neat trick. I do want to write to Ross and tell him the problem with that Rouvali Don Juan is just that it's terrible (https://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,29166.msg1509802.html#msg1509802).
I also thought that people new to classical music would not get listening to complete works or successfully navigate the canon. But that is wrong, I've seen more than one neophyte use streaming to dive in through Spotify, Amazon and Apple. So while these major streaming services need work when it comes to discovery in classical, I don't think I agree with Alex Ross that the sky is falling.
Quote from: Brian on November 07, 2023, 04:58:30 AMThis was excellent, thank you. It was fair, smart, occasionally mean (the bit about the AI-generated "moods"), and honest (the ending - that the value of recorded music is now almost nothing). It does pique my interest about switching (from Qobuz) to Presto or Idagio - that listening game feature where you can compare recordings directly sounds like a very neat trick. I do want to write to Ross and tell him the problem with that Rouvali Don Juan is just that it's terrible (https://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,29166.msg1509802.html#msg1509802).
I had to look up that
Live Compare on Idagio because in 3 years of Idagio, I have never seen it. That's because it is buried below the new albums, featured albums, playlists, etc...and because I seldomly look at these either... :P
It is not a tool available for every work, just a few that Idagio have picked. See attached pics.
Otherwise, interesting article indeed. I am with Ross on the lack of
Labels search option in Idagio.
pic 2
That's 8 works only... maybe they change at regular interval, dunno...
I didn't know about that recording comparison thing either, but without looking I guessed it would be limited to certain works.
Idagio is pretty darn good as far as I'm concerned. And it didn't take long to figure out that while Apple Classical was a decided improvement on general Apple, it wasn't wonderful.
Some of the observations about Apple Classical are very similar to what Hurwitz said (only he said it in much a vaguer and rambling way in a couple of videos).
Harman have purchased Roon. It will be interesting to see how this unfolds. I gave Roon one last try late last year and I was still not completely happy with how 2.0.xx handled classical, it still felt like it was primarily centered around pop/rock music.
Stumbled across this article on the BBC. To own physical media or not? Something to think about in the world of streaming (Mods, feel free to move this. I wasn't sure where to post it.).
https://www.bbc.com/culture/article/20240102-oppenheimer-and-the-resurgence-of-blu-ray-and-dvds-were-now-in-the-age-of-streaming-anxiety
PD
Quote from: Pohjolas Daughter on January 03, 2024, 06:04:39 AMStumbled across this article on the BBC. To own physical media or not? Something to think about in the world of streaming (Mods, feel free to move this. I wasn't sure where to post it.).
https://www.bbc.com/culture/article/20240102-oppenheimer-and-the-resurgence-of-blu-ray-and-dvds-were-now-in-the-age-of-streaming-anxiety
PD
Very interesting, thank you PD :) . I feel much happier having my own copies of media without relying on an internet connection to what could disappear at any moment. Also having a limited collection makes it graspable and encourages thorough exploration.
Quote from: Pohjolas Daughter on January 03, 2024, 06:04:39 AMStumbled across this article on the BBC. To own physical media or not? Something to think about in the world of streaming (Mods, feel free to move this. I wasn't sure where to post it.).
https://www.bbc.com/culture/article/20240102-oppenheimer-and-the-resurgence-of-blu-ray-and-dvds-were-now-in-the-age-of-streaming-anxiety
PD
I always like to use the example of how I relied on streaming the Kondrashin Shostakovich symphonies until one day they vanished as why it is important to own what you care about.
Quote from: Pohjolas Daughter on January 03, 2024, 06:04:39 AMStumbled across this article on the BBC. To own physical media or not? Something to think about in the world of streaming (Mods, feel free to move this. I wasn't sure where to post it.).
https://www.bbc.com/culture/article/20240102-oppenheimer-and-the-resurgence-of-blu-ray-and-dvds-were-now-in-the-age-of-streaming-anxiety
PD
Thanks, PD. Frankly, streaming services and the content they provide have always been
a supplement to my physical media collection, which I'm constantly paring down through (usually permanent) borrowing or giveaways. The stuff I really like never leaves my shelves. ;)
If this is news, I'm a trendsetter. I've been saying these same things for 15 years at least.
Quote from: Madiel on January 03, 2024, 10:46:43 AMIf this is news, I'm a trendsetter. I've been saying these same things for 15 years at least.
;D
PD
Couldn't find my recording of Mark Lanegan's album 'Straight Songs of Sorrow' after intensive search. A terrible feeling.
Streaming it caused some relief.
Now I think I only stream a playlist a selection of favourite songs. Out of simplicity. And only a few boxsets of piano sonates by Beethoven, Mozart, Haydn and Schubert as background in the mornings when I'm reading (cd-player). And I have my mp3 player for listening to whole albums.
It's climate change inspired. We're gonna lose much. 'Loss and Damage'. Changing what I listen to and by what medium is a way of preparing and coping. Climate change requires that we choose by intuition, giving up the luxery and comfort of unlimited choice and overview. It requires a mentality of 'befriending grief'. It requires being united for resilience and safety.
Quote from: steve ridgway on January 03, 2024, 08:31:57 AMVery interesting, thank you PD :) . I feel much happier having my own copies of media without relying on an internet connection to what could disappear at any moment. Also having a limited collection makes it graspable and encourages thorough exploration.
I used to think that way, until my physical media collection outstripped my time available to listen, and I ended up with a lot of CDs that I have not found time to listen to. Effectively I accumulated a hard-copy streaming service.
With the excessive collection and the lossless streaming services, I have a new mindset. I hardly even listen to my "favorite" recordings. When it occurs to me to listen to a certain piece of music I arbitrarily pick some version that I have not heard before. It is more like going to a concert, where you are not sure what to expect.
Quote from: Spotted Horses on January 06, 2024, 10:52:03 PMI used to think that way, until my physical media collection outstripped my time available to listen, and I ended up with a lot of CDs that I have not found time to listen to. Effectively I accumulated a hard-copy streaming service.
The problem for me with streaming - other than the problems others have mentioned is that this is not only a question of having the option to hear some specific music, but also the question of being able to hear specific recordings (interpretations) when I want to, and in this respect it's the safest solution to own a copy of the recording. All existing recordings can't be streamed.
Quote from: premont on January 07, 2024, 01:08:52 AMThe problem for me with streaming - other than the problems others have mentioned is that this is not only a question of having the option to hear some specific music, but also the question of being able to hear specific recordings (interpretations) when I want to, and in this respect it's the safest solution to own a copy of the recording. All existing recordings can't be streamed.
For example despite it being months since Hyperion was bought out, I can still only stream Simpson's 9th symphony. But I own all the symphonies and can listen to them whenever I want.
And not long ago you recommended to me a Bach Brandenburg set that can't be streamed, but is still available on cd.
Quote from: Spotted Horses on January 06, 2024, 10:52:03 PMI used to think that way, until my physical media collection outstripped my time available to listen, and I ended up with a lot of CDs that I have not found time to listen to. Effectively I accumulated a hard-copy streaming service.
With the excessive collection and the lossless streaming services, I have a new mindset. I hardly even listen to my "favorite" recordings. When it occurs to me to listen to a certain piece of music I arbitrarily pick some version that I have not heard before. It is more like going to a concert, where you are not sure what to expect.
I also thought the way Steve asserted. It's still the most desired option as a listener of music, but my problem is that I don't order my cds sufficiently. Like I mentioned I couldn't find a recording after intensive search and then I listened to it at Spotify. Which caused me to choose for streaming. Streaming makes ordering easier.
My cd collection functions now as a sort of personal monument, maybe occasionely spin something and, as I mentioned, piano music as background music.
The big drawback of streaming services is that it tends to promote playlists. As long as one keeps playing cds a balance is maintained and streaming services are useful for listening to whole recordings.
My approach is to listen to albums on my mp3player buying mp3s (or flacs) from Bandcamp. It's a pity however that Bandcamp has a limited availability of recordings. I find this ironic. An artist want to sell his music and wants their fans listening to whole albums I suppose and enough people seem to care on Bandcamp.
So I make the transition to the digital age concerning listening to music, which I have postponed already so long. It's definitely poorer, but I take that, since it also has a benefit: simplicity.
The big advantage of streaming for me is that someone will make a recommendation on this forum, or a new release is posted that takes my fancy and in most cases I can go and listen to it online.
Quote from: Henk on January 07, 2024, 09:38:35 AMThe big drawback of streaming services is that it tends to promote playlists.
Spotify yes. Qobuz and Idagio are album focused and work focused respectively.
Quote from: Henk on January 07, 2024, 09:11:17 AMMy cd collection functions now as a sort of personal monument,
You'll have to have your collection buried with you to take to the afterlife like the pharaohs of old! :laugh:
Quote from: Henk link=msg=1546769
quote author=Henk link=msg=1546769 date=1704652715]
It's definitely poorer, but I take that, since it also has a benefit: simplicity.
Overall, quality is poorer than vinyl or CD recordings on my home system but in nearly every other respect it's been a boon in my life. Playlists are like sidebars; nifty if you need them but otherwise easy to ignore.
But like Holden I'm still primarily exposed to new music
outside of the music platforms (member/friends' suggestions, YouTube, library media shelves, second hand music shops) despite their efforts at parading new stuff before my library faves are revealed. It isn't a friendly approach. I want to see my content first and then if I'm in a mood to explore I'll scroll down (or over) to new/unknown music. Subscriber listening complacency has to factor into programming return visits on any music platform. Must say, Spotify has been the best at opening up exactly where I've left off. :D
Quote from: ando on January 07, 2024, 11:52:54 AMOverall, quality is poorer than vinyl or CD recordings on my home system but in nearly every other respect it's been a boon in my life. Playlists are like sidebars; nifty if you need them but otherwise easy to ignore.
But like Holden I'm still primarily exposed to new music outside of the music platforms (member/friends' suggestions, YouTube, library media shelves, second hand music shops) despite their efforts at parading new stuff before my library faves are revealed. It isn't a friendly approach. I want to see my content first and then if I'm in a mood to explore I'll scroll down (or over) to new/unknown music. Subscriber listening complacency has to factor into programming return visits on any music platform. Must say, Spotify has been the best at opening up exactly where I've left off. :D
Spotify suggests related artists of what one is listening. I must say by this I do some nice finds. But I also use other sources for finding music: radio program, GMG, Bandcamp, recordshop.
I have some problem understanding the full message you are communicating.
Quote from: DavidW on January 07, 2024, 11:31:07 AMSpotify yes. Qobuz and Idagio are album focused and work focused respectively.
I want some sense of ownership (like with cds) and pay artists fairly (since I have enough money). That's why I choose purchasing and downloading mp3s/flacs.
Quote from: Henk on January 07, 2024, 12:36:22 PMI have some problem understanding the full message you are communicating.
It's not profound. I just like things where I left them. :)
Quote from: Spotted Horses on January 06, 2024, 10:52:03 PMEffectively I accumulated a hard-copy streaming service.
Which is a lot more curated than the commercial ones.
Or maybe it isn't. I don't know how carefully put together your CD collection is. But I'd hope it reflects your interests, and the complexity of your interests, better than the enormous amount of music on a streaming service and the somewhat basic way that an algorithm draws inferences from what you listen to.
Quote from: Madiel on January 07, 2024, 03:26:50 PMWhich is a lot more curated than the commercial ones.
I really don't like how we have algorithms instead of proper curation.
Quote from: Madiel on January 07, 2024, 03:26:50 PMWhich is a lot more curated than the commercial ones.
A streaming service doesn't have to be curated. I "curate" it as I select items to listen to. My hard copy streaming service was thin (since I was always discovering things I want to listen to that I didn't already own) and expensive.
QuoteOr maybe it isn't. I don't know how carefully put together your CD collection is. But I'd hope it reflects your interests, and the complexity of your interests, better than the enormous amount of music on a streaming service and the somewhat basic way that an algorithm draws inferences from what you listen to.
There is no basic algorithm involved. I remember reading a commentary somewhere, in which the author claimed that streaming services destroyed his/her appreciation of music by constantly creating playlists. They made it sound like they clicked one track and were compelled to listen to 37 hours of music that the streaming service picked for them. Well, Apple Music has an "infinite play" checkbox and if you uncheck it, Apple Music plays what you selected and stops. Problem solved. :)
Quote from: premont on January 07, 2024, 01:08:52 AMThe problem for me with streaming - other than the problems others have mentioned is that this is not only a question of having the option to hear some specific music, but also the question of being able to hear specific recordings (interpretations) when I want to, and in this respect it's the safest solution to own a copy of the recording. All existing recordings can't be streamed.
I agree with that, and I still buy the occasional CD which I want to guarantee access to. As an example of a recent experience, I got it into my head to listen to the Brandenburg Concerti again. Using Apple Music I picked them out of three sets which I don't own. Now that I am near the end I am tempted to buy one of them. The other two had their nice points, but are not essential, given that I have at least a half-dozen sets on my metaphorical shelves (hard drive).
This is going to sound like an odd question, but for those of you who are using the Presto streaming platform, is it possible to downgrade the format one streams? I am just doing a one-month trial and wanted to stream some of my purchases and others on the laptop . It seems to go by default to the highest Resolution available, and for those in Lossless 24 bits, it somehow sounds very "muddy" (noticeably so compared to the Presto samples or the same albums I listened in mp3 or "normal" FLAC on Idagio). I couldn't find anywhere in the settings or account details a way to "downgrade" to the standard streaming to 16 bit lossless only (I saw it on the Android phone app for offline download quality and streaming too - I think - but there is no such choice on the webpage player...or so it seems ?).
Well, a first on Idagio:
Due to legal constraints, this content is unfortunately not available in your region.
All the BIS Masaaki Suzuki recordings have vanished, including the 55 volumes of Bach cantatas.
I didn't renew my yearly subscription at the end of November as I didn't have much use of it anymore (I explored what I wanted and ended up with a list of future definite purchases from then on). I have been using their free version for some quick sampling since. The above doesn't fill me with confidence for a future re-registration.
Weirdly, I had the BIS Mendelssohn and BIS Respighi sets in my favourites on Qobuz too (again for future purchases and price tracking) and the links went dead too...only to be re-listed under a new entry...at the same prices...
Go figure. Actually, maybe something to do with a re-linking of all the BIS entries for Apple ?
(Idagio has the brand new Petterson box for instance...but i can't find the Respighi or the Mendessohn)
Olivier, what country are you in? I just checked and all of Suzuki's recordings are still on Qobuz.
Quote from: DavidW on February 05, 2024, 09:43:35 AMOlivier, what country are you in? I just checked and all of Suzuki's recordings are still on Qobuz.
Yes can confirm that, they are still there.
Quote from: DavidW on February 05, 2024, 09:43:35 AMOlivier, what country are you in? I just checked and all of Suzuki's recordings are still on Qobuz.
In the UK, David. I can see them on Qobuz, no issue.
I only posted about it because it is the first time I saw such occurrence on Idagio in over 3 years of using it.
Quote from: Papy Oli on February 05, 2024, 09:49:09 AMIn the UK, David. I can see them on Qobuz, no issue.
I only posted about it because it is the first time I saw such occurrence on Idagio in over 3 years of using it.
That is nuts, usually they offer the same catalogues. Is this an issue with BIS as a whole on Idagio?
Looks like I've lost much of the BIS catalogue in Australia.
Quote from: Madiel on February 05, 2024, 04:29:14 PMLooks like I've lost much of the BIS catalogue in Australia.
I hope this is temporary and not Apple exclusivity creeping in.
Quote from: Madiel on February 05, 2024, 04:29:14 PMLooks like I've lost much of the BIS catalogue in Australia.
On what streaming service?
I noticed this morning that all CD's I had in my library from the label BIS are unavailable, on Qobuz. That is really a worrying thing. BIS truly sold themselves out to Apple.
@Harry Have you tried searching for them again ? As I mentioned further up, I had a few BIS entries in my
Qobuz UK favourites that took me to blank pages. Searching for them again, they came up under a new listing and are still there this morning e.g.:
https://play.qobuz.com/album/f2ojwqov9jhfb (https://play.qobuz.com/album/f2ojwqov9jhfb)
https://play.qobuz.com/album/sagpdtohvf55a (https://play.qobuz.com/album/sagpdtohvf55a)
https://play.qobuz.com/album/qp1d739ywfm2b (https://play.qobuz.com/album/qp1d739ywfm2b)
Maybe they are doing a re-listing following the Apple takeover? All the Suzuki recordings are still there on Qobuz UK as of now.
(No such luck on Idagio, although the Petersson box is still there. That said, based on my impression, Idagio seems slower to (re)upload compared to others, for instance with the Hyperion releases.)
Quote from: DavidW on February 05, 2024, 11:09:04 AMThat is nuts, usually they offer the same catalogues. Is this an issue with BIS as a whole on Idagio?
Did a quick search on Idagio:
- Only 2 volumes of the Sibelius edition left
- Schnittke symphonies all gone bar No.3
- Stenhammar quartets all gone.
- No Suzuki
- No Brautigam
Quote from: Papy Oli on February 06, 2024, 01:53:09 AM@Harry
Have you tried searching for them again ? As I mentioned further up, I had a few BIS entries in my Qobuz UK favourites that took me to blank pages. Searching for them again, they came up under a new listing and are still there this morning e.g.:
https://play.qobuz.com/album/f2ojwqov9jhfb (https://play.qobuz.com/album/f2ojwqov9jhfb)
https://play.qobuz.com/album/sagpdtohvf55a (https://play.qobuz.com/album/sagpdtohvf55a)
https://play.qobuz.com/album/qp1d739ywfm2b (https://play.qobuz.com/album/qp1d739ywfm2b)
Maybe they are doing a re-listing following the Apple takeover? All the Suzuki recordings are still there on Qobuz UK as of now.
(No such luck on Idagio, although the Petersson box is still there. That said, based on my impression, Idagio seems slower to (re)upload compared to others, for instance with the Hyperion releases.)
Yes I tried, and older recordings are available, but the new releases are still unavailable. The cantatas are available and some others too, I saw that.
Quote from: Papy Oli on February 06, 2024, 02:01:34 AMDid a quick search on Idagio:
- Only 2 volumes of the Sibelius edition left
- Schnittke symphonies all gone bar No.3
- Stenhammar quartets all gone.
- No Suzuki
- No Brautigam
That's a disaster
Quote from: Papy Oli on February 06, 2024, 01:53:09 AMMaybe they are doing a re-listing following the Apple takeover? All the Suzuki recordings are still there on Qobuz UK as of now.
(No such luck on Idagio, although the Petersson box is still there. That said, based on my impression, Idagio seems slower to (re)upload compared to others, for instance with the Hyperion releases.)
The peculiar thing though is that it's saying the albums don't exist. It's saying that the albums are not available in a particular country.
Which is absolutely a thing that happens with the insane vagaries of licensing deals. Among the several reasons that I still prefer CDs is that I can buy them from anywhere in the world, including in cases where the record companies have decided for some strange reason that an Australian couldn't possibly want to hear certain music.
It's stranger than that, though, because the way I confirmed for sure that something odd was happening was by trying a playlist I created in Idagio that I knew had a BIS track in it. The track would play perfectly well from the playlist, but without cover art. And if I tried to go from that track to the source album,
that was when I got a message about the album not being available... despite just having played a track from that album.
There were still a few BIS albums detectable, but not many on the searches I tried. If something really has happened long term then I would very much want to yell at Apple. Only finding the right part of Apple to yell at is sometimes extraordinarily difficult, and only intermittently effective (possibly when enough people yell the same thing).
Quote from: Madiel on February 06, 2024, 02:41:38 AMThe peculiar thing though is that it's saying the albums don't exist. It's saying that the albums are not available in a particular country.
Which is absolutely a thing that happens with the insane vagaries of licensing deals. Among the several reasons that I still prefer CDs is that I can buy them from anywhere in the world, including in cases where the record companies have decided for some strange reason that an Australian couldn't possibly want to hear certain music.
It's stranger than that, though, because the way I confirmed for sure that something odd was happening was by trying a playlist I created in Idagio that I knew had a BIS track in it. The track would play perfectly well from the playlist, but without cover art. And if I tried to go from that track to the source album, that was when I got a message about the album not being available... despite just having played a track from that album.
There were still a few BIS albums detectable, but not many on the searches I tried. If something really has happened long term then I would very much want to yell at Apple. Only finding the right part of Apple to yell at is sometimes extraordinarily difficult, and only intermittently effective (possibly when enough people yell the same thing).
In the interim I find yelling at my wife's i-phone or my daughter's mac gives me some solace.
The much-changed BIS website now says its recordings are available on:
Apple Music
eClassical (SACDs/CDs available)
Presto music (SACDs/CDs available)
The small number of platforms and the fact that other two explicitly talk about discs being available makes me even more suspicious that this is no accident.
To which I would only respond with a giant "fuck you". Apple is more and more shifting from being a platform provider to trying to be a content owner, and quite frankly I'm sick of this happening. I guess maybe Netflix has managed it well (though I don't have Netflix) but so often it's a terrible outcome. Using my Apple TV box the way I intended (before Apple TV+ content existed) is getting harder and harder with each operating system change because Apple is determined to make the box focused on its own content, not all the other TV streaming services I access on the box. Spotify bought a podcast company I liked, then went and made many of the podcasts Spotify-exclusive, then killed many of the podcasts when the audience plummeted because people did not change platforms. Because Spotify is not very good for listening to podcasts compared to dedicate podcast apps (I don't personally think Spotify is all that amazing for listening to music despite its popularity).
Apple taking good classical music recordings and making them exclusive is in no way going to persuade me to use Apple Classical. What would persuade me to use Apple Classical is making the interface and the search functions work as well as Idagio does. And even then I would only be motivated to change if Idagio stopped being good to use or it died.
Quote from: Madiel on February 06, 2024, 02:41:38 AMIt's stranger than that, though, because the way I confirmed for sure that something odd was happening was by trying a playlist I created in Idagio that I knew had a BIS track in it. The track would play perfectly well from the playlist, but without cover art. And if I tried to go from that track to the source album, that was when I got a message about the album not being available... despite just having played a track from that album.
Weirder and weirder!! :laugh:
Quote from: Madiel on February 06, 2024, 02:59:06 AMThe much-changed BIS website now says its recordings are available on:
Apple Music
eClassical (SACDs/CDs available)
Presto music (SACDs/CDs available)
The small number of platforms and the fact that other two explicitly talk about discs being available makes me even more suspicious that this is no accident.
And yet, if you click on Suzuki's JSB's SMP that appears on their scrolling main page's banner, it still gives you links to Tidal, Spotify, Youtube Music... the head doesn't know what the buttock is doing >:D
I've sent an email to BIS. Whether that's the head or the buttock remains to be seen.
Quote from: Madiel on February 06, 2024, 02:59:06 AMUsing my Apple TV box the way I intended (before Apple TV+ content existed) is getting harder and harder with each operating system change because Apple is determined to make the box focused on its own content, not all the other TV streaming services I access on the box.
I've noticed that too. I use an Apple TV with my den tv and it defaults to apple+ content without even showing the apps and I have to hit home repeatedly.
Quote from: Madiel on February 06, 2024, 03:37:19 AMI've sent an email to BIS. Whether that's the head or the buttock remains to be seen.
Good action, let us know, if they answer. I had some experience with them, not always positive.
In the US I just checked Idagio and nearly everything is gone.
For Qobuz it looks like it is all still there.
Robert Bahr says no, their albums are not being removed from other streaming services.
The answer was literally "No." :laugh:
I've told him that some of us are having difficulties.
Quote from: DavidW on February 06, 2024, 04:36:32 AMIn the US I just checked Idagio and nearly everything is gone.
For Qobuz it looks like it is all still there.
Yes David all the discs are there, but most of the new releases are not available. But also older recordings like Saeverud, or Sibelius symphonies, etc etc, not available. I have quite some recordings of BIS in my library, so I feel f..ked over by Apple.
Quote from: Madiel on February 06, 2024, 04:38:55 AMRobert Bahr says no, their albums are not being removed from other streaming services.
The answer was literally "No." :laugh:
I've told him that some of us are having difficulties.
For God's sake, give him a link to any of the streaming services, and he may see for himself. It is YES, meaning not available.
Quote from: Harry on February 06, 2024, 04:40:34 AMYes David all the discs are there, but most of the new releases are not available. But also older recordings like Saeverud, or Sibelius symphonies, etc etc, not available. I have quite some recordings of BIS in my library, so I feel f..ked over by Apple.
Not for me, they're all still playable. Qobuz US must not have lost the license (at least for now).
Quote from: Madiel on February 06, 2024, 04:38:55 AMRobert Bahr says no, their albums are not being removed from other streaming services.
The answer was literally "No." :laugh:
What!? What is even the point in lying?
I contacted Roon about this too, if they were aware of this issue. Will send an email to Qobuz too.
Can someone who has a Twitter account see if BIS records posted anything there?
I contacted Roon and they sent me this.
"here was a similar issue with BIS/Qobuz a few years ago - it looks to be back...
I've just noticed a whole bunch of favorited albums in Qobuz, which did play complete a few days ago, are now incomplete with numerous "sample" tracks. On Roon, the indication of those sample tracks is not noted at all, only an error message in playback, while skipping to the first complete track. Annoying to say the least! A lot of classical albums on Pentatone. I can list more, but here's an example: Open Qobuz. Qobuz is rather difficult to effectively contact. I really hope this is some..."
I've just checked my own BIS collection in Roon sourced from Qobuz, and I'm seeing the same problem.
This I was told by a Roon moderator
Quote from: DavidW on February 06, 2024, 04:48:36 AMWhat!? What is even the point in lying?
Who says he's lying? If there is some sort of technical problem rather than an intentional effort to remove things, or if in fact the material is still available in the EU for example, then he's not lying.
It wouldn't surprise me at all if someone has, say, scrambled the metadata and that's made a mess of things.
See, for example, what Apple sometimes manages to do to episodes of TV shows (the colossal mess of Glee episodes was a particularly outstanding example for many months).
Mr Bahr further explaining the problem.
QuoteThat is because Apple is migrating the whole BIS catalogue from Naxos to Apple at this moment. It will be a little while before this process is done.
Best - Robert
Makes sense to me.
I can report that removing a BIS CD out of my collection on Qobuz, and adding it again, makes the recording available again, weird that is. If I have to do that with all my BIS CD'S it will take me a month or so.
Quote from: Harry on February 06, 2024, 05:08:53 AMI can report that removing a BIS CD out of my collection on Qobuz, and adding it again, makes the recording available again, weird that is. If I have to do that with all my BIS CD'S it will take me a month or so.
If I were you I'd wait a while to see if the problem resolves itself (maybe once those of us on Idagio can find albums again there). Basically it seems that the indexing and metadata is unstable right now.
Quote from: Madiel on February 06, 2024, 05:11:49 AMIf I were you I'd wait a while to see if the problem resolves itself (maybe once those of us on Idagio can find albums again there). Basically it seems that the indexing and metadata is unstable right now.
Hopefully
Another answer from the Mod on Roon
and what is different this time around is that these albums are still available via the Qobuz app.
Hopefully this is just a glitch in the daily data dump from Qobuz - we'll see what Support can find out about it.
Well there is good news and bad news for Roon users.
This is the answer from the Mod of Roon
OK migrating the metadata/- then that explains what is going on. All the BIS albums that were held on Naxos servers and linked to by Qobuz will now show up as unavailable when they get moved to Apple servers.
I'm afraid that we're just going to manually update our BIS collections with the new versions - this is not done automatically by Roon (and yes, there is a feature suggestion for this to be implemented).
You need to go the Versions tab of an album and then you will see the new version of the album. Add that to your library and delete the old version. For example.
And then a graphic explanation follows.
I have manually to replace the versions on Roon, for they do not update automatically. In regards to other streamers I do not know.
I'm glad to have my paranoid delusions thoroughly debunked.
I didn't see all this discussion, just now wanted to play a BIS album on Qobuz...
My finding was that there is an old BIS label page here
https://play.qobuz.com/label/6361
Almost all their albums have been removed from that page and migrated over to this new one
https://play.qobuz.com/label/1450891
But some still remain at the old one. It does look like this entailed deleting all the old listings and recreating all the listings under a new folder. Inconceivably annoying work for whatever tech guy had to do all that deleting and re-uploading... and also very annoying for those of us who have playlists and favorites!
Quote from: Brian on February 06, 2024, 07:01:10 AMI didn't see all this discussion, just now wanted to play a BIS album on Qobuz...
My finding was that there is an old BIS label page here
https://play.qobuz.com/label/6361
Almost all their albums have been removed from that page and migrated over to this new one
https://play.qobuz.com/label/1450891
But some still remain at the old one. It does look like this entailed deleting all the old listings and recreating all the listings under a new folder. Inconceivably annoying work for whatever tech guy had to do all that deleting and re-uploading... and also very annoying for those of us who have playlists and favorites!
Quite right. Although Roon is working on automatically update such a migrating, it was at this time not yet done. I sincerely hope, that the selling of labels to Apple will be done forever. $:)
oh well, it all came out in the wash eventually.
Sorry for the kerfuffle :laugh:
As you were. ;D
(cross-post from "Listening")
(https://static.qobuz.com/images/covers/26/52/0761195085226_600.jpg) (https://static.qobuz.com/images/covers/18/27/0730099512718_600.jpg)
Since there is discussion recently of Qobuz streaming issues...here's one that really is their fault! I was listening to the Segerstam/Helsinki recording of Lemminkainen Legends today when "The Swan of Tuonela" came on twice in a row...they uploaded it instead of "Lemminkainen in Tuonela"! So I am substituting the Sakari recording for this movement and creating my own hybrid of two recordings ::)
Quote from: Brian on February 06, 2024, 12:58:50 PM(cross-post from "Listening")
(https://static.qobuz.com/images/covers/26/52/0761195085226_600.jpg) (https://static.qobuz.com/images/covers/18/27/0730099512718_600.jpg)
Since there is discussion recently of Qobuz streaming issues...here's one that really is their fault! I was listening to the Segerstam/Helsinki recording of Lemminkainen Legends today when "The Swan of Tuonela" came on twice in a row...they uploaded it instead of "Lemminkainen in Tuonela"! So I am substituting the Sakari recording for this movement and creating my own hybrid of two recordings ::)
But it's not Qobuz's fault, it's Ondine's. Qobuz just plays what the labels and distributors send them.
Quote from: Daverz on February 06, 2024, 01:19:40 PMBut it's not Qobuz's fault, it's Ondine's. Qobuz just plays what the labels and distributors send them.
Indeed, there are cases where you can find the exact same mistake repeated on multiple platforms.
The 10-disc Mosaiques Quartet Haydn box used to be 9 discs long everywhere. There have been separate digital reissues since, I'm not sure whether that fixed the problem.
I spot checked about a dozen BIS recordings on Qobuz this morning--all seems fine here.
Quote from: Bachtoven on February 07, 2024, 12:37:47 PMI spot checked about a dozen BIS recordings on Qobuz this morning--all seems fine here.
Of course it is, we discussed about it the whole Tuesday. :)
Quote from: Harry on February 07, 2024, 01:24:48 PMOf course it is, we discussed about it the whole Tuesday. :)
I was just reiterating it!
Quote from: Harry on February 07, 2024, 01:24:48 PMOf course it is, we discussed about it the whole Tuesday. :)
By the way, I've been wondering why you had to retag all of your BIS recordings? How does that work?
PD
Quote from: Pohjolas Daughter on February 08, 2024, 11:02:07 AMBy the way, I've been wondering why you had to retag all of your BIS recordings? How does that work?
PD
Roon, the software I used for Qobuz, gave me the option of versions, from there I could retag the BIS CD'S in my collection. I had to retag them because BIS was sold to Apple, and since the servers of Naxos did hold them originally they had to be retagged by Apple, hence the old ones from Naxos did not work anymore.
Quote from: Harry on February 08, 2024, 11:43:59 AMRoon, the software I used for Qobuz, gave me the option of versions, from there I could retag the BIS CD'S in my collection. I had to retag them because BIS was sold to Apple, and since the servers of Naxos did hold them originally they had to be retagged by Apple, hence the old ones from Naxos did not work anymore.
What did you have to change though?
PD
Quote from: Pohjolas Daughter on February 08, 2024, 11:48:40 AMWhat did you have to change though?
PD
I had to change the primary tag by choosing the new offered tag on Roon. (Meaning to accept the new version of the recording and throw away the old one, a bit of a hassle) Those that work with the software of Qobuz had not problem, that was automatically done. As for now Roon is thinking about this addition to their software, but the time is not there yet, so I had to do it manually.
btw I just checked Idagio this morning (I was thinking of switching because I was having connection problems with Qobuz on my streamer) and... nearly all of the BIS catalogue is still gone on Idagio! At least in the US.
Quote from: DavidW on February 11, 2024, 07:09:51 AMbtw I just checked Idagio this morning (I was thinking of switching because I was having connection problems with Qobuz on my streamer) and... nearly all of the BIS catalogue is still gone on Idagio! At least in the US.
That sucks majorly David, it is a huge miss, if they do not stream BIS.
The BIS catalog appears to be available on Spotify. I did some random searches and found every item I was looking for from BIS.
I am listening to this right now.
(https://i.postimg.cc/SRDVG7Fj/schubert-braoutigam.png)
Quote from: San Antone on February 11, 2024, 09:13:22 AMThe BIS catalog appears to be available on Spotify. I did some random searches and found every item I was looking for from BIS.
I am listening to this right now.
(https://i.postimg.cc/SRDVG7Fj/schubert-braoutigam.png)
The BIS catalogue has a favorite pianist of mine in Yevgeni Sudbin. Also like Brautigam's early recordings on the Etcetera label.
I logged out and logged back into Qobuz on my Node which fixed the connection timeout error. But... I also contacted Idagio about wanting to resubscribe but finding that BIS was largely missing. I'll see if I receive a reply.
Received this reply from Idagio's CS:
QuoteDear David,
�
Sorry about that! Since the label has recently been sold off, their catalogue is temporarily unavailable. We are awaiting the licenser will deliver it to us again soon.
�
Let me know in case you should be running into any other issues or questions, or if you would like to share other feedback with us! I am looking forward to your message.
���
So nothing nefarious but it is odd that they didn't receive the new catalog at the same time as the other streaming services.
The entire BIS catalog is back on Idagio. I've subbed. A few too many annoying times I've waited on buffering on Qobuz (not talking about the connection timeout error).
It seems like Idagio takes a bit longer than the other services (also thinking about the delay in receiving Hyperion recordings). Probably just the result of being a smaller company and not having as much man power.
Funny, with all the classical music searching I do on YouTube it's ever occurred to me until tonight to simply sit back and allow their auto-play algorithm to provide a continuous run of uploaded material. I mean, by default, they must have the largest library of classical music available to listen/watch online. It's a great rainy day option at the very least.
Quote from: ando on February 26, 2024, 08:45:28 PMFunny, with all the classical music searching I do on YouTube it's ever occurred to me until tonight to simply sit back and allow their auto-play algorithm to provide a continuous run of uploaded material. I mean, by default, they must have the largest library of classical music available to listen/watch online. It's a great rainy day option at the very least.
I wonder how good they are though in automatically bringing up the next movement of the same work and performance?
Earlier today, I was wanting to watch a couple of late night talk shows and had to keep going back to the official site and try to figure out which segment was next as they kept cuing up other segments and/or other shows!
PD
Quote from: ando on February 26, 2024, 08:45:28 PMFunny, with all the classical music searching I do on YouTube it's ever occurred to me until tonight to simply sit back and allow their auto-play algorithm to provide a continuous run of uploaded material. I mean, by default, they must have the largest library of classical music available to listen/watch online. It's a great rainy day option at the very least.
I think YouTube is pretty poor at predicting what I will want to see next. Apple Music generates "stations." I've never used it purposefully, but one of the stations it generated for me was "Giorgio Koukl and similar artists." I clicked it by mistake and discovered then piano music of Harsanyi. :)
Quote from: Spotted Horses on February 27, 2024, 09:14:26 AMI think YouTube is pretty poor at predicting what I will want to see next.
:D Well, no one can do that but you. I appreciate whatever "classical" selection comes my way with their autoplay feature. Chances are fairly high that I have never seen/watched the ensemble/artist featured or their interpretation. I keep physical media for my particular moods.
Quote from: Pohjolas Daughter on February 27, 2024, 08:06:15 AMI wonder how good they are though in automatically bringing up the next movement of the same work and performance?
Earlier today, I was wanting to watch a couple of late night talk shows and had to keep going back to the official site and try to figure out which segment was next as they kept cuing up other segments and/or other shows!
PD
Oh, if the movement or segment in question isn't part of a selected playlist YouTube places zero priority on playing them in order. The joy I was speaking of is in the randomness of works. I'm OCD enough most of the day. ;)
The Chateau de Versailles Spectacles label seems to be streaming now. I found several releases on Apple Music, and they are downloadable on Presto too. I also checked Idagio to see if the booklets would be there, but I couldn't find anything there (yet?)
Last time I checked, this label was CD only, so it's nice to see it come to streaming.
Quote from: ando on February 27, 2024, 01:41:51 PMI appreciate whatever "classical" selection comes my way with their autoplay feature.
Not me. I am very select. Nothing more annoying than an algorithm directing my attention.
I have this feature turned off on all of my streaming from TV shows t0 music to my education courses, to ....
Quote from: eljr on March 15, 2024, 10:39:49 AMNot me. I am very select. Nothing more annoying than an algorithm directing my attention.
I have this feature turned off on all of my streaming from TV shows t0 music to my education courses, to ....
Whatever works!
Quote from: eljr on March 15, 2024, 10:39:49 AMNot me. I am very select. Nothing more annoying than an algorithm directing my attention.
I have this feature turned off on all of my streaming from TV shows t0 music to my education courses, to ....
Autoplay is just random tracks not necessarily whole works. It makes sense with pop music, but not classical!
Quote from: DavidW on March 15, 2024, 01:10:11 PMAutoplay is just random tracks not necessarily whole works. It makes sense with pop music, but not classical!
Actually it doesn't make sense with a lot of pop music. Good pop albums are not just random selections of songs. They are whole works just as much as any classical work with multiple movements.
I know of at least 2 or 3 high profile pop artists who've fought against this belief that everything is up for shuffling.
Which is why I don't use autoplay in either genre.
Quote from: Madiel on March 15, 2024, 04:15:13 PMGood pop albums are not just random selections of songs. They are whole works just as much as any classical work with multiple movements.
Well yes and no. There are some big concept albums like what you talk about. But most albums are just collections of songs, sometimes with a unifying theme, sometimes not.
Quote from: DavidW on March 15, 2024, 06:21:56 PMWell yes and no. There are some big concept albums like what you talk about. But most albums are just collections of songs, sometimes with a unifying theme, sometimes not.
I'm not purely talking about concept albums. There are MANY albums where the order of songs is carefully planned so that the contrasts of tempo and register and key work well.
Adele doesn't make concept albums but she made Spotify stop shuffling the order of the songs on her album. She planned an order. That's the way she wanted people to hear it. Saying otherwise is the equivalent of saying it doesn't matter whether you put the Adagio movement first.
I mean, don't worry, there are plenty of pop music listeners who also don't appreciate the effort that many artists put into structuring an album. But a hell of a lot of albums have structure. Just because people have stopped listening on physical media that enforces an order doesn't mean that musicians have stopped thinking that way. Hell, a lot of albums still have a Side A and Side B in their musical structure from the days of vinyl.
The most noticeable thing about today music, including pop, is that it is not organic. Nothing is endowed with true life anymore; the vanished Being is universally replaced with a soulless and rationalistic "will" and "self-expression". Everything is caged in a personal dimension; in this culture, everything begins and ends within the personal ego. If we are talking about structure here, we are talking about the structure of a petty mechanism.
Quote from: AnotherSpin on March 15, 2024, 10:00:53 PMThe most noticeable thing about today music, including pop, is that it is not organic. Nothing is endowed with true life anymore; the vanished Being is universally replaced with a soulless and rationalistic "will" and "self-expression". Everything is caged in a personal dimension; in this culture, everything begins and ends within the personal ego. If we are talking about structure here, we are talking about the structure of a petty mechanism.
As it happens, the work I'm listening to now sums up the state of consciousness I'm looking for - the remembrance that there's an immense universe outside humanity's day to day preoccupations.
"Chronochromie imagines a natural world without people: a world of birds, mountains and changeless, abstract time."
Quote from: AnotherSpin on March 15, 2024, 10:00:53 PMThe most noticeable thing about today music, including pop, is that it is not organic. Nothing is endowed with true life anymore; the vanished Being is universally replaced with a soulless and rationalistic "will" and "self-expression". Everything is caged in a personal dimension; in this culture, everything begins and ends within the personal ego. If we are talking about structure here, we are talking about the structure of a petty mechanism.
People have been saying "kids today" for thousands of years, why should you be any different.
You want to see structure, The Eras Tour film is now streaming. Over 3 hours of music carefully planned to achieve a variety of tones and moods.
Then you could go to any of the 10 constituent albums and see how they're structured (though the first couple are admittedly a bit generic given Taylor's age at the time). But the tour is truly fascinating as it moves from big production numbers to intimate solos and back again.
Quote from: Madiel on March 15, 2024, 10:54:41 PMPeople have been saying "kids today" for thousands of years, why should you be any different.
You want to see structure, The Eras Tour film is now streaming. Over 3 hours of music carefully planned to achieve a variety of tones and moods.
Then you could go to any of the 10 constituent albums and see how they're structured (though the first couple are admittedly a bit generic given Taylor's age at the time). But the tour is truly fascinating as it moves from big production numbers to intimate solos and back again.
People who know that so-called "progress" is crap see gradual and permanent degeneration in everything, whether it's on the scale of millennia, centuries or decades.
I don't have anything to say about Taylor Swift, I'd rather stay silent.
Quote from: AnotherSpin on March 16, 2024, 12:23:31 AMPeople who know that so-called "progress" is crap see gradual and permanent degeneration in everything, whether it's on the scale of millennia, centuries or decades.
I don't have anything to say about Taylor Swift, I'd rather stay silent.
So your only two options are progress or degeneration.
Interesting. There's an undistributed middle, you know.
Quote from: Madiel on March 16, 2024, 12:29:27 AMSo your only two options are progress or degeneration.
Interesting. There's an undistributed middle, you know.
Progress is a term sly manipulators use to mask degeneration. What options you're talking about?
I'm talking about things being different over time without inherently being better or worse.
But to paint such a monolithic picture either way, of constant progress or of constant degeneration, frankly strikes me as a bit ridiculous.
To pick one obvious example of genuine progress, average life expectancy is now decades higher than it was a few generations ago. If you think that's evidence of degeneracy then I'm afraid I can't agree.
Quote from: Madiel on March 16, 2024, 01:44:27 AMI'm talking about things being different over time without inherently being better or worse.
But to paint such a monolithic picture either way, of constant progress or of constant degeneration, frankly strikes me as a bit ridiculous.
To pick one obvious example of genuine progress, average life expectancy is now decades higher than it was a few generations ago. If you think that's evidence of degeneracy then I'm afraid I can't agree.
Bingo. We live, or rather exist, in an era of quantity, but not quality. Becoming instead of being. And there have been no fluctuations and not expected to be. Call it monolithic, if you like.
Quote from: Madiel on March 15, 2024, 07:48:33 PMI mean, don't worry, there are plenty of pop music listeners who also don't appreciate the effort that many artists put into structuring an album.
I only listen to pop music by albums, but sure jump to conclusions, it is after all what you do when you have your dander up!
Quote from: Madiel on March 15, 2024, 10:54:41 PMYou want to see structure, The Eras Tour film is now streaming. Over 3 hours of music carefully planned to achieve a variety of tones and moods.
Then you could go to any of the 10 constituent albums and see how they're structured (though the first couple are admittedly a bit generic given Taylor's age at the time). But the tour is truly fascinating as it moves from big production numbers to intimate solos and back again.
Oh no! OH NO!!! You're a swifty!! How did we end up with a Swifty on this forum!?! :o
(https://cdn.britannica.com/93/240793-138-69567C00/Edvard-Munch-The-Scream.jpg?w=800&h=450&c=crop)
Quote from: DavidW on March 16, 2024, 06:53:29 AMI only listen to pop music by albums, but sure jump to conclusions, it is after all what you do when you have your dander up!
I didn't say you don't listen to albums. I said you don't appreciate their structure. Which is evident by your words, not your listening habits.
Quote from: DavidW on March 16, 2024, 06:53:29 AMI only listen to pop music by albums, but sure jump to conclusions, it is after all what you do when you have your dander up!
Oh no! OH NO!!! You're a swifty!! How did we end up with a Swifty on this forum!?! :o
(https://cdn.britannica.com/93/240793-138-69567C00/Edvard-Munch-The-Scream.jpg?w=800&h=450&c=crop)
Quote from: Madiel on March 16, 2024, 01:09:48 PMI didn't say you don't listen to albums. I said you don't appreciate their structure. Which is evident by your words, not your listening habits.
Come on guys...please take a deep breath! You both have things to contribute.
And yes, I do appreciate a well-thought-out album. For me (an example): Kate Bush's "Hounds of Love".
PD
Quote from: Pohjolas Daughter on March 16, 2024, 03:31:18 PMAnd yes, I do appreciate a well-thought-out album. For me (an example): Kate Bush's "Hounds of Love".
PD
Yeah that is a great album. Also Paul Simon's Graceland!
Oh and I wasn't angry, I was making fun of Madiel for being a Taylor Swift fan. ;D
I ignored that part. I was a forum member long before I was a Swiftie.
I'm having terrible problems with Presto's app. It freezes up and will stop playing, searching etc. on both the Windows app and through bluos.
I'm finally going to take Spotted Horses advice and try Amazon Music.
Quote from: Madiel on March 16, 2024, 06:34:59 PMI ignored that part. I was a forum member long before I was a Swiftie.
Like I said, everything is in decline :o
Most of all, people's capacity for logic.
Quote from: DavidW on March 20, 2024, 07:01:37 AMI'm having terrible problems with Presto's app. It freezes up and will stop playing, searching etc. on both the Windows app and through bluos.
I'm finally going to take Spotted Horses advice and try Amazon Music.
Brings to mind an old colleague who would refuse to recommend any software because "then it will be my fault if it doesn't work." For instance, if I asked him if I could use Adobe Acrobat to format a figure to be included in a word document the farthest he would go would be to say, "I've used Adobe Acrobat to format a figure to include in a word document.
In that spirit, "I've used Apple Music to stream classical music losslessly."
I've very rarely had any buffering issues with Apple Music (and only if I am doing five things at once on my Mac while streaming). I have had an intermittent issue where an album will refuse to play (it tries each track for a few seconds and skips to the next, until it gets to the end). I traced the problem to using my AirPods Max headphones with my old intel based Mac. AirPods Max requires Apple silicon to work properly (no spatial audio or dolby atmos with Intel) and my version of MacOS on that machine is several generations behind, and about to sunset. Oddly it only refuses to play on a few releases, works find on a up-to-date machine or using another audio output. Maybe something not kosher in the source (tagged as Dolby atmos, but not really, etc).
And no booklets. :(
Anyway, 30 day free trial so you can give it a try risk free.
Quote from: DavidW on March 16, 2024, 06:53:29 AMOh no! OH NO!!! You're a swifty!! How did we end up with a Swifty on this forum!?! :o
I had a generally positive impression of Taylor Swift, although I am a bit puzzled how she became the lynchpin of civilization. :)
Quote from: Spotted Horses on March 21, 2024, 12:50:00 PMI had a generally positive impression of Taylor Swift, although I am a bit puzzled how she became the lynchpin of civilization. :)
Haha, perfectly put! I feel exactly the same on both points.
Quote from: Spotted Horses on March 21, 2024, 12:50:00 PMI had a generally positive impression of Taylor Swift, although I am a bit puzzled how she became the lynchpin of civilization. :)
Which says less about her than it does about civilisation.
Quote from: Spotted Horses on March 21, 2024, 12:50:00 PMI had a generally positive impression of Taylor Swift, although I am a bit puzzled how she became the lynchpin of civilization. :)
Yeah she went from being a star to someone that is idolized and constantly discussed. I know people that watched the Superbowl just because of Taylor Swift which is just odd.
Quote from: Spotted Horses on March 21, 2024, 12:46:31 PMIn that spirit, "I've used Apple Music to stream classical music losslessly."
It doesn't play nice with BluOS (the app that controls my streamer). So it is a no go despite having an Iphone and an Ipad.
Quote from: DavidW on March 21, 2024, 02:16:43 PMYeah she went from being a star to someone that is idolized and constantly discussed. I know people that watched the Superbowl just because of Taylor Swift which is just odd.
I watched the Super Bowl briefly this year just because I remembered it was on and I was home on a Monday morning. It's not the first time I've tried watching it. It seems to take around 8 years or so for me to forget the conclusion that I always reach: I don't understand why anyone watches the Super Bowl. Gridiron must rank as one of the most boring sports ever invented.
Quote from: Spotted Horses on March 21, 2024, 12:50:00 PMI had a generally positive impression of Taylor Swift, although I am a bit puzzled how she became the lynchpin of civilization. :)
Because she's nice. And not many high profile people are. Her public persona has a lot in common with Dolly Parton.
Also more generally because she's an absolute marketing whiz.
Also more specifically because she released probably her 2 most acclaimed albums in 2020 right when everyone was stuck at home with a heck of a lot of time to listen to music. The sheer number of fans who reevaluated Swift and BECAME fans because of those albums should not be underestimated. My impression is that a huge chunk of her adult-entry fan base is a direct result of the style of the 2020 albums. It's not my personal story but it seems to be extremely common.
Quote from: Madiel on March 21, 2024, 06:54:52 PMBecause she's nice. And not many high profile people are. Her public persona has a lot in common with Dolly Parton.
Also more generally because she's an absolute marketing whiz.
Also more specifically because she released probably her 2 most acclaimed albums in 2020 right when everyone was stuck at home with a heck of a lot of time to listen to music. The sheer number of fans who reevaluated Swift and BECAME fans because of those albums should not be underestimated. My impression is that a huge chunk of her adult-entry fan base is a direct result of the style of the 2020 albums. It's not my personal story but it seems to be extremely common.
The Age of Numbers. Numbers instead of being.
Quote from: AnotherSpin on March 21, 2024, 09:45:48 PMThe Age of Numbers. Numbers instead of being.
Oh don't be ridiculous. You're trying to make popularity a crime. And there's no "instead of". It can just as easily be numbers AND being. Haydn was massively popular in his lifetime. His dominance of Paris orchestral concerts at the height of his fame makes Swift's numbers look a bit weak.
The myth that one must be a tortured lonely soul rejected by the world in order to be a great artist is exactly that: a myth. A myth that was very over-used in the 19th century and one of the reasons that Haydn's critical status went down. He can't have been good. People LIKED him.
Quote from: Madiel on March 21, 2024, 11:27:56 PMOh don't be ridiculous. You're trying to make popularity a crime. And there's no "instead of". It can just as easily be numbers AND being. Haydn was massively popular in his lifetime. His dominance of Paris orchestral concerts at the height of his fame makes Swift's numbers look a bit weak.
The myth that one must be a tortured lonely soul rejected by the world in order to be a great artist is exactly that: a myth. A myth that was very over-used in the 19th century and one of the reasons that Haydn's critical status went down. He can't have been good. People LIKED him.
Of course people liked Haydn. They liked music some two hundred years ago. Now
instead, Taylor Swift gurgles and yells to monotonous mechanical noise in front of an immense crowd of degenerates. Don't know what I'm talking about? It's all right, I didn't expect that.
Quote from: AnotherSpin on March 21, 2024, 11:51:07 PMNow instead, Taylor Swift gurgles and yells to monotonous mechanical noise in front of an immense crowd of degenerates. Don't know what I'm talking about? It's all right, I didn't expect that.
Yikes.
Quote from: AnotherSpin on March 21, 2024, 11:51:07 PMOf course people liked Haydn. They liked music some two hundred years ago. Now instead, Taylor Swift gurgles and yells to monotonous mechanical noise in front of an immense crowd of degenerates. Don't know what I'm talking about? It's all right, I didn't expect that.
Sayeth the ABBA fan...
Quote from: Spotted Horses on March 22, 2024, 06:43:48 AMSayeth the ABBA fan...
It's funny, pop music has had a consistent fondness for nonsense words/phrases. My grandmother used to hate the Beatles because "all they sing is 'yeah'". I remember laughing when I first heard the oldie that goes "do you remember when we used to sing sha la la la la la la la la la la dee da." Of course, it all started with Papageno singing "Hm hm hm hm hm hm hm hm hm hm hm hm hm hm hm hm."
Quote from: DavidW on March 21, 2024, 02:19:22 PMIt doesn't play nice with BluOS (the app that controls my streamer). So it is a no go despite having an Iphone and an Ipad.
My first thought was, "what's a BluOS?" Their web site says Apple Music is supported, but saying it doesn't make it so. I only use it on MacOS and sometimes on a iPhone.
Quote from: Spotted Horses on March 22, 2024, 06:43:48 AMSayeth the ABBA fan...
Compared to Swift, Abba is cosmos. However, if you're interested in my preferences in popular music, it's not Abba, it's Grateful Dead ;)
Quote from: Spotted Horses on March 22, 2024, 07:18:38 AMMy first thought was, "what's a BluOS?" Their web site says Apple Music is supported, but saying it doesn't make it so. I only use it on MacOS and sometimes on a iPhone.
It is but through airplay and not through the app itself. The same goes for chrome casting. All other streaming services have native support.
Quote from: Brian on March 22, 2024, 04:36:33 AMYikes.
I only know what he said because you quoted it.
Honestly, the prejudices of some people. And I use that word prejudice in its full sense. Swift can (and does) literally pick up a guitar and sing, and we get this nonsense about it being "mechanical". Well only in the sense that every single musical instrument is a "machine".
There's a difference between not liking something and demonising it with caricatures. It's striking to me just how often this particular poster does the latter, when quite frankly from his situation I would have though he'd know BETTER than most just how dreadful the consequences of that attitude would be. But no. Every conversation descends into hyperbole. And that's why I mostly ignore him.
I'm not ignoring anyone. People are too conditioned and dependent, I can not have personal complaints against someone in particular -- only compassion and not much more. Including to all those in the enormous crowds pulsating to today's mechanical noise, which, however, is no different from yesterday or the day before yesterday. It is not about music only.
As for Swift, as I already wrote above, I have nothing to say about her. I tried listening a few years ago and several times since. I've never managed to make it longer than a minute or two. So I don't have enough material for scientific analysis... ;D
You know I was just teasing Madiel in a nonsensical way but I have a feeling that AS is being serious??, and this crazy debate actually makes me curious to listen to her music!
Well this is what streaming services are great for, trying stuff out.
Quote from: DavidW on March 23, 2024, 08:28:00 AMYou know I was just teasing Madiel in a nonsensical way but I have a feeling that AS is being serious??, and this crazy debate actually makes me curious to listen to her music!
He is not to be teased as he is intolerant to opinions different from his. He is unable to embrace and endorse other's views, which is so arrogant and dreary in modern epoch of acceptance and inclusiveness. Very sad and no fun at all.
I tolerate a range of informed opinions on many topics (admittedly it depends on the topic). It's the fantasies that depart from a factual basis I tend to have more trouble with.
Moving On.
Quote from: Madiel on March 24, 2024, 12:17:54 AMI tolerate a range of informed opinions on many topics (admittedly it depends on the topic). It's the fantasies that depart from a factual basis I tend to have more trouble with.
Moving On.
You bragged about ignoring me. Where did the comment on my last post come from?
I also had problems with Amazon Music and ended up going back to Qobuz. If Apple Music is ever added to BluOS I will give it a shot. But for now I'm done exploring.
Quote from: AnotherSpin on March 24, 2024, 06:15:52 AMYou bragged about ignoring me. Where did the comment on my last post come from?
It's taken me 4 days to find out you don't know what "mostly" means. :laugh:
Quote from: Madiel on March 28, 2024, 12:49:01 PMIt's taken me 4 days to find out you don't know what "mostly" means. :laugh:
"I only know what he said because you quoted it."
It didn't take me four days to understand what was written. But don't imagine I'm bragging that I'm an instant thinker, unlike you. God forbid. ;)
I see that all of Hyperion's song editions - Schumann, Brahms, Liszt, Fauré, Debussy, as well as countless volumes of Schubert - are now available on streaming platforms, plus as Qobuz downloads. Nice!
I think I've decided to stop using streaming to just bounce around music endlessly. I think I'll just use it to listen to my music when I'm at work, and focus on my cd collection at home.
Quote from: DavidW on April 14, 2024, 08:27:58 AMI think I've decided to stop using streaming to just bounce around music endlessly. I think I'll just use it to listen to my music when I'm at work, and focus on my cd collection at home.
Are you feeling like you were like a kid in a candy shop, i.e., not being able to focus on one piece of music at a time? Or finding it too distracting while trying to work?
PD
Quote from: Pohjolas Daughter on April 15, 2024, 01:49:48 AMAre you feeling like you were like a kid in a candy shop, i.e., not being able to focus on one piece of music at a time? Or finding it too distracting while trying to work?
PD
The first. It never distracts me when working, if it were I wouldn't listen. I only listen when I'm doing something low mental effort.
Quote from: DavidW on April 14, 2024, 08:27:58 AMI think I've decided to stop using streaming to just bounce around music endlessly. I think I'll just use it to listen to my music when I'm at work, and focus on my cd collection at home.
So far, I have not found streaming has influenced my musical habits in a bad way, although it is a big issue for some. I have read a few articles in the media, the gist of which is that in the streaming era the musical experience imposed on you is that you have a tap you open and music pours out continuously, over which you have little control. I could see how that could happen initially using Apple Music. You play one
The Who song and all of a sudden you are transferred to virtual reality of classic rock. But then I noticed there is a check box "infinite play" and if you uncheck it, the music stops after whatever you have selected ends. :)
For classical listening, the main influence is that after I have listed to a piece I might poke around and sample various alternate versions that I might want to listen to next as a contrast. For instance, after listening to Grimwood's Années de pèlerinage I identified a dozen other recordings, briefly sampled half of them, and decided I'll listen to Angelich next. I didn't have to buy them all, or pick one blind. Ironically, I often stream CDs I own (losslessly on Apple Music) because I can't be bothered to find the FLAC files on my hard disk, and I figure "why not sent a few extra pennies to the record label?"
Quote from: DavidW on April 15, 2024, 06:09:22 AMThe first. It never distracts me when working, if it were I wouldn't listen. I only listen when I'm doing something low mental effort.
Were/are you listening to/exploring a lot of different genres? Just curious.
PD
Quote from: DavidW on April 14, 2024, 08:27:58 AMI think I've decided to stop using streaming to just bounce around music endlessly. I think I'll just use it to listen to my music when I'm at work, and focus on my cd collection at home.
Sounds like a criticism of the idea of unlimited consumption. You would probably enjoy living in the USSR. A dozen composers, three or four conductors, endless repetition of the same humble repertoire of several symphonies. The wealth of having no choice (I'm almost not kidding, choice is only an illusion).
Quote from: AnotherSpin on April 15, 2024, 08:09:32 AMSounds like a criticism of the idea of unlimited consumption. You would probably enjoy living in the USSR. A dozen composers, three or four conductors, endless repetition of the same humble repertoire of several symphonies. The wealth of having no choice (I'm almost not kidding, choice is only an illusion).
There is something to it, but you take it too far, in my opinion. It is a well known experience that people who settle in the U.S. (and not just from the Soviet Union) find it disconcerting to go to the supermarket and find, for instance, an entire wall of toothpaste. Too many choices and they are all the same (maybe two categories, with and without fluoride). It is disconcerting even for a native of the U.S. like me. But being able to choose from dozens of recordings of Mahler's 9th symphony at no marginal cost does not cause me any inconvenience or stress.
Quote from: Spotted Horses on April 15, 2024, 09:33:19 AMToo many choices and they are all the same (maybe two categories, with and without fluoride).
Four categories: with/without fluoride; with/without whiteners. Intangible product differentiation must flourish so that marketing folks stay employed.
Quote from: Todd on April 15, 2024, 09:38:57 AMFour categories: with/without fluoride; with/without whiteners. Intangible product differentiation must flourish so that marketing folks stay employed.
Do whiteners actually whiten?
Quote from: Spotted Horses on April 15, 2024, 09:50:55 AMDo whiteners actually whiten?
I don't know. The ads say they do. Some chemical or another is included, or maybe not.
Quote from: Todd on April 15, 2024, 09:54:46 AMI don't know. The ads say they do. Some chemical or another is included, or maybe not.
Bleach or charcoal, I think. Whether there is a perceptible effect is hard to quantify.
Quote from: Spotted Horses on April 15, 2024, 09:59:11 AMBleach or charcoal, I think. Whether there is a perceptible effect is hard to quantify.
A pearly white smile is priceless. Purchasers appear to believe the products work, so that is good enough.
Quote from: Spotted Horses on April 15, 2024, 09:33:19 AMThere is something to it, but you take it too far, in my opinion. It is a well known experience that people who settle in the U.S. (and not just from the Soviet Union) find it disconcerting to go to the supermarket and find, for instance, an entire wall of toothpaste. Too many choices and they are all the same (maybe two categories, with and without fluoride). It is disconcerting even for a native of the U.S. like me. But being able to choose from dozens of recordings of Mahler's 9th symphony at no marginal cost does not cause me any inconvenience or stress.
If you haven't read it, I highly recommend
The Paradox of Choice.
Quote from: DavidW on April 15, 2024, 10:28:50 AMIf you haven't read it, I highly recommend The Paradox of Choice.
I haven't read it, but I think I may have read a review of it.
Quote from: Spotted Horses on April 15, 2024, 09:33:19 AMThere is something to it, but you take it too far, in my opinion. It is a well known experience that people who settle in the U.S. (and not just from the Soviet Union) find it disconcerting to go to the supermarket and find, for instance, an entire wall of toothpaste. Too many choices and they are all the same (maybe two categories, with and without fluoride). It is disconcerting even for a native of the U.S. like me. But being able to choose from dozens of recordings of Mahler's 9th symphony at no marginal cost does not cause me any inconvenience or stress.
It's mind boggling at times! :(
Quote from: Spotted Horses on April 15, 2024, 09:33:19 AMThere is something to it, but you take it too far, in my opinion. It is a well known experience that people who settle in the U.S. (and not just from the Soviet Union) find it disconcerting to go to the supermarket and find, for instance, an entire wall of toothpaste. Too many choices and they are all the same (maybe two categories, with and without fluoride). It is disconcerting even for a native of the U.S. like me. But being able to choose from dozens of recordings of Mahler's 9th symphony at no marginal cost does not cause me any inconvenience or stress.
Are the recordings of Mahler's 9th Symphony really different? The record companies executives will say yes, critics will readily confirm. The other question is, how many of these versions do you need at any given moment of time? And there is only this moment.
You and I look at the ability to choose in different ways. Ultimately, it all comes down to the ability to distinguish between what is desired and what is necessary.
Quote from: Todd on April 15, 2024, 09:38:57 AMFour categories: with/without fluoride; with/without whiteners. Intangible product differentiation must flourish so that marketing folks stay employed.
There's also a difference in the place of manufacture.
A few years ago, I bought Japanese toothbrushes in Singapore that were claimed to clean without toothpaste, just with a little water. I didn't like the way they worked. The minimalist design was much more impressive.
Quote from: AnotherSpin on April 15, 2024, 11:03:52 PMAre the recordings of Mahler's 9th Symphony really different? The record companies executives will say yes, critics will readily confirm. The other question is, how many of these versions do you need at any given moment of time? And there is only this moment.
You and I look at the ability to choose in different ways. Ultimately, it all comes down to the ability to distinguish between what is desired and what is necessary.
I don't know how many I "need," but I have never listened to a recording of Mahler 9 that wasn't unique in some way, or which didn't bring out a musical line that I had not noticed before.
Quote from: Spotted Horses on April 15, 2024, 11:48:29 AMI haven't read it, but I think I may have read a review of it.
I haven't read this book, and I'm not likely to, the answer to the freedom of choice question is pretty clear to me. On another note, I found this excerpt from a Goodreads review funny. Quote: "Whether we're buying a pair of jeans, [...] decisions have become increasingly complex due to the overwhelming abundance of choice." Wait a minute, real jeans are no longer available to the average consumer. Levi's produces anywhere but the US some sorry rags that have little to do with the original product of the mid-20th century.
Quote from: Spotted Horses on April 15, 2024, 11:32:42 PMI don't know how many I "need," but I have never listened to a recording of Mahler 9 that wasn't unique in some way, or which didn't bring out a musical line that I had not noticed before.
I have no doubt that if you listen to the same Mahler 9th recording more than once, you will hear something new each time.
Quote from: AnotherSpin on April 15, 2024, 11:12:27 PM... toothbrushes in Singapore that were claimed to clean without toothpaste, just with a little water...
I'd say all toothbrushes do that. Up to a point.
Quote from: Spotted Horses on April 15, 2024, 11:32:42 PMI don't know how many I "need," but I have never listened to a recording of Mahler 9 that wasn't unique in some way, or which didn't bring out a musical line that I had not noticed before.
I know how many you need. Zero. Recordings are recently invented luxury products. They yield much enjoyment, but one does not need them to live, either at a crude sustenance level, nor at a more intellectually and aesthetically fulfilling level.
I think he knew that but expressed it more subtly through the scare quotes around "need." I recently wrote an article saying every town "needs" a good bistro, but maybe not as much as it needs a fire station.
Quote from: Brian on April 16, 2024, 06:47:45 AMI think he knew that but expressed it more subtly through the scare quotes around "need."
Yes, I got that. The word "need" is irrelevant in the context of this forum.
Quote from: Todd on April 16, 2024, 06:44:04 AMI know how many you need. Zero. Recordings are recently invented luxury products. They yield much enjoyment, but one does not need them to live, either at a crude sustenance level, nor at a more intellectually and aesthetically fulfilling level.
Quote from: Brian on April 16, 2024, 06:47:45 AMI think he knew that but expressed it more subtly through the scare quotes around "need." I recently wrote an article saying every town "needs" a good bistro, but maybe not as much as it needs a fire station.
Quote from: Todd on April 16, 2024, 06:59:35 AMYes, I got that. The word "need" is irrelevant in the context of this forum.
No one considers the possibility that '"I need"' was in quotes because it was a quote of the post I was replying to.
Quote from: AnotherSpin on April 15, 2024, 11:03:52 PMAre the recordings of Mahler's 9th Symphony really different? The record companies executives will say yes, critics will readily confirm. The other question is, how many of these versions do you need at any given moment of time? And there is only this moment.
You and I look at the ability to choose in different ways. Ultimately, it all comes down to the ability to distinguish between what is desired and what is necessary.
Quote from: Spotted Horses on April 16, 2024, 07:07:27 AMNo one considers the possibility that '"I need"' was in quotes because it was a quote of the post I was replying to.
Yes, I read that. Again, the word "need" is irrelevant in the context of this forum.
Quote from: Todd on April 16, 2024, 07:10:08 AMYes, I read that. Again, the word "need" is irrelevant in the context of this forum.
Not all needs are existential. I need oxygen to stay alive, and I need $5 to get a cafe latte in this town. And, to belabor the point, I didn't profess to have any "need," but commented that having more recordings available of a favorite work is enriching.
Quote from: Spotted Horses on April 16, 2024, 07:25:39 AMNot all needs are existential.
Correct, and I explicitly addressed that earlier.
Quote from: Spotted Horses on April 16, 2024, 07:25:39 AMNot all needs are existential. I need oxygen to stay alive, and I need $5 to get a cafe latte in this town. And, to belabor the point, I didn't profess to have any "need," but commented that having more recordings available of a favorite work is enriching.
Yes, you need oxygen to stay alive, but you don't need latte for survival, glass of tap water will suffice. This is the difference between needed and desired. Todd is right in the sense that it is possible to survive without discussing how we listen to Beethoven, much less Schulhoff.
A lot of those posts weren't needed.
Quote from: Madiel on April 16, 2024, 12:40:38 PMA lot of those posts weren't needed.
They weren't desired either! :laugh:
Quote from: DavidW on April 16, 2024, 01:42:03 PMThey weren't desired either! :laugh:
The inability to distinguish between the desirable and the needed is not as comical as it may seem at first glance. The never ending pursuit of the former is a source of suffering, the latter ensures survival.
I've had severe issues with my streamer and after it completely ruined my attempt to listen to Weinberg's 2nd and 21st, I finally gave in and contacted Bluesound's CS. I think they found a fix and I'm back in business.
If it didn't work I think I would just take the friction of using my Macbook instead. Streamers and streaming apps are just not as polished as other modern tech.
I think that I'm right in saying that most of us don't use dedicated streamers?
Quote from: DavidW on May 17, 2024, 11:00:40 AMI've had severe issues with my streamer and after it completely ruined my attempt to listen to Weinberg's 2nd and 21st, I finally gave in and contacted Bluesound's CS. I think they found a fix and I'm back in business.
If it didn't work I think I would just take the friction of using my Macbook instead. Streamers and streaming apps are just not as polished as other modern tech.
I think that I'm right in saying that most of us don't use dedicated streamers?
Are you subject to ads using a streaming service?
PD
Quote from: DavidW on May 17, 2024, 11:00:40 AMI've had severe issues with my streamer and after it completely ruined my attempt to listen to Weinberg's 2nd and 21st, I finally gave in and contacted Bluesound's CS. I think they found a fix and I'm back in business.
If it didn't work I think I would just take the friction of using my Macbook instead. Streamers and streaming apps are just not as polished as other modern tech.
I think that I'm right in saying that most of us don't use dedicated streamers?
I use Apple Music on a Mac or iPhone, Bluetooth headphones or usb dac. When I had a stereo the dac might connect to my preamp. Now just a headphone amp.
Quote from: Pohjolas Daughter on May 17, 2024, 11:29:15 AMAre you subject to ads using a streaming service?
PD
Audio streaming, never. Amazon prime video streaming can have ads.
Quote from: Spotted Horses on May 17, 2024, 12:04:10 PMAudio streaming, never. Amazon prime video streaming can have ads.
Are there noticeable gaps (spaces) between movements?
PD
Quote from: Pohjolas Daughter on May 17, 2024, 12:19:25 PMAre there noticeable gaps (spaces) between movements?
PD
No gaps. Once in a blue moon the player seems to get stuck and I have to close and re-open Apple Music to get it working again. And there is an odd problem that on a nearly obsolete version of MacOS Apple Music will refuse to stream a track over Bluetooth to AirPods Max. In that case I end up switching over to another non-obsolete Mac.
Quote from: Spotted Horses on May 17, 2024, 01:03:51 PMNo gaps. Once in a blue moon the player seems to get stuck and I have to close and re-open Apple Music to get it working again. And there is an odd problem that on a nearly obsolete version of MacOS Apple Music will refuse to stream a track over Bluetooth to AirPods Max. In that case I end up switching over to another non-obsolete Mac.
Ah, the joys of computers aging. :(
PD
Quote from: DavidW on May 17, 2024, 11:00:40 AMI think that I'm right in saying that most of us don't use dedicated streamers?
No I do everything on my iPhone. Either I'm listening on the phone itself (earphones) or I'm sending the signal to my mini hifi system.
The fact that the hifi could handle both streaming and CDs was a key reason I bought it. I was rather surprised such things were so uncommon.
Quote from: Pohjolas Daughter on May 17, 2024, 01:15:43 PMAh, the joys of computers aging. :(
PD
It's 9 years old, running Monterey. It has one more year of support left (before Monterey support ends and it stops getting security and misc updates). The issue with the AirPods Max is that for full functionality you have to have an iPhone or a Mac with apple silicon, and I suspect that has something to do with the occasional quirks involving Apple Streaming to the AirPods.
It is rather annoying that the support is ending after ~10 years while the hardware is still working beautifully. I could continue to use it, but am reluctant to do anything important on a computer that is not getting security updates.
Quote from: DavidW on May 17, 2024, 11:00:40 AMI think that I'm right in saying that most of us don't use dedicated streamers?
I do—a Roon Nucleus Plus. I'll never go back to a laptop—too many problems with both a Windows and Mac device. I'm not wild about being able to use only their software and its cost (It's free for another year), but I like it very much.
Quote from: Pohjolas Daughter on May 17, 2024, 11:29:15 AMAre you subject to ads using a streaming service?
PD
No I pay for it. You're thinking of free spotify or YT.
Oh it worked btw. CS had a process for me to clear the cache from my router. I listened to the following back to back with no interruption:
(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/61dTWt0-foL._UF1000,1000_QL80_DpWeblab_.jpg)
(https://is1-ssl.mzstatic.com/image/thumb/Music125/v4/a4/75/76/a4757692-bffe-e0f1-b9b0-109225001089/8051773575631.jpg/1200x1200bf-60.jpg)
I have not used TIDAL Music for years. They showed me a special: $2 for 60 days trial new membership, so I thought I would give it a go.
After about 30 minutes, I find it's clunkier to use than either Spotify or Apple (my two main current services). It also doesn't seem to have as many playlists on hand to sample an artist or a genre. (Spotify and Apple have an Essentials/"this is____" playlists for most artists, which is a nice easy way to pull all their singles and EPs together.)
Re classical: They have the same issue as Amazon Music, where a lot of the metadata is poor. I am not talking about granular data, either. I mean that if an album has multiple recordings with the same name by different composers - two violin concertos, for instance - it does not indicate who the composer is on each track. This issue seems to be common to certain labels, especially Sony-connected ones. (DG is very good about labeling their files).
Apple and Spotify work around this issue, with Apple Classical being the best app for it.
Sound quality is not an issue for me on any of them - I almost never go Lossless since I am frequently on bluetooth - so what would be the benefit of changing long-term? I guess TIDAL probably pay more to artists?
I have an annual paid sub to Presto, and it's a nice streaming service. But I don't always like being locked into JUST classical and jazz. And their queue system is poor - well, really nonexistent beyond the album you're playing. And the search function is finicky. But in the end, they're probably the best option for getting money into the hands of artists, and they do have booklets available for a lot of albums.
Right now, I've been using two different services. I use Spotify at work and Idagio on my stereo. At work, I had to restart Qobuz over and over due to bugs. Spotify just works. But I find it easier and more convenient on my stereo to use Idagio.
Quote from: NumberSix on August 31, 2024, 09:06:56 AMwhere a lot of the metadata is poor. I am not talking about granular data, either. I mean that if an album has multiple recordings with the same name by different composers - two violin concertos, for instance - it does not indicate who the composer is on each track.
I've run into this problem on Qobuz as well. It's ridiculous that labels still haven't fixed these problems.
Quote from: ShineyMcShineShine on August 31, 2024, 12:57:25 PMI've run into this problem on Qobuz as well. It's ridiculous that labels still haven't fixed these problems.
What it's done is frequently send me looking for a different recording, usually from a different label. I guess they didn't want my pennies. Or yours.
I am getting more comfortable with TIDAL. The interface is cleaner than Spotify's, and it's not as sluggish as Apple's software.
The metadata is still a major issue for classical, which is not Tidal's fault. I am learning to work around it. It just means that some labels, like DG and Decca, get more attention. And others, like a lot of Sony multi-work albums, don't get the attention they would otherwise deserve because their file names suck.
Alongside my 60-day trial of TIDAL, I have also been trying out Idagio for a 2-week run. (I tried it about a year ago and thought I would give it another chance.)
On paper, it has everything a classical fan could ask. Unlike Presto, it has the ability to make playlists and to carve out tracks or works from an album when playing.
In Presto, it's like playing a record: You can start where you want within an album, and you can manually change to another track -- but you can't set it to, for instance, only play the 3rd Symphony from a boxset of all the Bruckners. If you don't stop it, it will keep going.
Idagio lets you have a little more control of what you add to the play queue. But my complaint is the same as it was last time: The software is just ugly and a hassle to navigate. It takes too many clicks to do many things, and the phone or desktop app will be slow sometimes to respond.
Plus, here's something weird: When playing a piece on my iPhone, the app will sometimes choose the composer's picture instead of the album art -- especially when playing from a playlist. Obviously, that's not the end of the world. But it is odd and kind of annoying.
And for all the metadata offered in Presto and Idagio, their search functionality sucks. You can't drill down. In Apple Classical, I can search "Beethoven". It will then let me choose a work. From that work, I will see some recommended and popular recordings. But then I can expand to all the recordings. From that "all" list, I can scroll down, sorting by date or popularity. Or I can further search for something like "Karajan" or "Chicago". [and of course, just like with any music app, I could start with something like "Brahms 4 Solti" and skip all that drill-down]
Plus, Apple Classical just all around looks prettier. I wish it had a MacOS app I could use instead of the main Apple Music app for Classical when at my desk, and I suspect it will eventually. (in the meantime, they could have the option to use the iPad since I have a silicon chip, but they don't so far).
Regardless of that limitation, Apple is still at this point my top software for classical music.
Hang on, pretty well everything you're saying you can do in Apple but not Idagio, I can do in Idagio.
I know nothing about playlists. But almost all my searching is by work, not by album. And yes, when I do this it uses the picture of the composer. Because I'm not in an album, I'm in a performance of a work.
Idagio simply doesn't treat the album as the primary unit of music, it gives you the choice. You can switch between album mode and work mode fairly easily. But several of your comments read as if you were thinking in album terms and ended up in the work side of things without entirely realising.
I can most certainly look up Beethoven and then get a list of Beethoven works that I can filter. That is EXACTLY how I use Idagio 95% of the time. I only land on album pages very occasionally.
Idagio Works page. Note also that "albums" and "recordings" are 2 distinct options. "Recordings" will take you to recordings of works, though to be honest I never use this, I'll go to the work first and pick a recording. But "recordings" are what you will find in playlists.
Here are my recent Idagio searches. You will see it's perfectly possible to search for a composer, which will take you to a page like the one in my previous post. Or for a work. Or for an album.
So the problems you were having honestly mostly sound like you were treating Idagio as if it was album-focused, and not realising you can bypass them entirely. It actually OPENS for me on mobile on the browse page with famous composers at the very top, which is why I found the comments about "on Apple Music I can search for Beethoven" a bit bewildering. On Idagio I don't technically even have to search for Beethoven. I just have to scroll to the right a little past Bach, Vivaldi and Mozart.
Quote from: Madiel on September 19, 2024, 12:28:18 AMIdagio Works page. Note also that "albums" and "recordings" are 2 distinct options. "Recordings" will take you to recordings of works, though to be honest I never use this, I'll go to the work first and pick a recording. But "recordings" are what you will find in playlists.
I would say that you're correct about the way I've been thinking of approaching search and organization. It's absolutely been coloring my use of the service.
I appreciate your thoughts and your including some images. I will give the service a little bit more time and see if it works better for me if I try to adjust the way I think about it. :)
Quote from: NumberSix on September 19, 2024, 02:33:34 AMI would say that you're correct about the way I've been thinking of approaching search and organization. It's absolutely been coloring my use of the service.
I appreciate your thoughts and your including some images. I will give the service a little bit more time and see if it works better for me if I try to adjust the way I think about it. :)
Happy to help, it's okay if you still don't prefer it but it's worth knowing what's possible. I suspect the key for you would be to try the Browse page, it sounds like you've spent a lot of time on Discover, which is much more about showing latest album releases and curated playlists.
I should probably clarify, on the works page for a composer, the search bar will only search within that composer's list of works. And it filters pretty well for most things, if I know an opus number or similar I'll often just type that in the search bar and immediately get the relevant work. The "filter" button on that page is to filter the list of works by genre (orchestral, chamber, vocal etc.)
Quote from: Madiel on September 19, 2024, 03:26:25 AMHappy to help, it's okay if you still don't prefer it but it's worth knowing what's possible. I suspect the key for you would be to try the Browse page, it sounds like you've spent a lot of time on Discover, which is much more about showing latest album releases and curated playlists.
I should probably clarify, on the works page for a composer, the search bar will only search within that composer's list of works. And it filters pretty well for most things, if I know an opus number or similar I'll often just type that in the search bar and immediately get the relevant work. The "filter" button on that page is to filter the list of works by genre (orchestral, chamber, vocal etc.)
Just wanted to say that thanks to your encouragement, I have been using Idagio a lot. I have gotten comfortable with how searching works and how the library is managed.
I find myself missing features I can't even articulate when I go back to Apple or Presto. They just don't feel complete. ;D
(I do regret the lack of queue management on desktop. But is is an option on the iPhone app so that's okay in the long run. I usually only listen to a work or an album at a time anyway. And playlists are great for breaking up big sets.)
Quote from: NumberSix on September 23, 2024, 01:14:44 PMJust wanted to say that thanks to your encouragement, I have been using Idagio a lot. I have gotten comfortable with how searching works and how the library is managed.
I find myself missing features I can't even articulate when I go back to Apple or Presto. They just don't feel complete. ;D
(I do regret the lack of queue management on desktop. But is is an option on the iPhone app so that's okay in the long run. I usually only listen to a work or an album at a time anyway. And playlists are great for breaking up big sets.)
And I don't even get a commission for all this work. ;D
I used to use the other classical streaming app before Apple swallowed it up (heck I can't even remember the name now, it took so long before Apple Classical turned up as the replacement). And in hindsight I ended up preferring Idagio anyway. It's not perfect, but it's pretty rare for me to not get the outcome I want from it.
Quote from: Madiel on September 23, 2024, 01:33:14 PMAnd I don't even get a commission for all this work. ;D
I used to use the other classical streaming app before Apple swallowed it up (heck I can't even remember the name now, it took so long before Apple Classical turned up as the replacement). And in hindsight I ended up preferring Idagio anyway. It's not perfect, but it's pretty rare for me to not get the outcome I want from it.
It feels like a streaming service for grown-ups. 8)
Primephonic, I think the old one was.
Quote from: NumberSix on September 23, 2024, 01:57:53 PMIt feels like a streaming service for grown-ups. 8)
I once had a subscription to Idagio to listen on my computer or phone, and I liked the service. The problem is that Idagio isn't adapted for use with specialized streamers. At least it wasn't when I last checked.
Quote from: AnotherSpin on September 23, 2024, 09:10:31 PMI once had a subscription to Idagio to listen on my computer or phone, and I liked the service. The problem is that Idagio isn't adapted for use with specialized streamers. At least it wasn't when I last checked.
Certainly that's a concern. Idagio also doesn't play natively on my Alexa speakers, unlike the other major services. (also an issue for Presto)
Quote from: NumberSix on September 23, 2024, 01:58:19 PMPrimephonic, I think the old one was.
Yes, that was it. I was briefly very unhappy about its demise... then within a couple of weeks of switching to Idagio I was fine.
Quote from: NumberSix on September 23, 2024, 09:16:21 PMCertainly that's a concern. Idagio also doesn't play natively on my Alexa speakers, unlike the other major services. (also an issue for Presto)
I have to confess not knowing much about this stuff. I AirPlay services from my iPhone to my CD player's speakers. This works fine for both Idagio and Deezer, so an awful lot of my music at home is run from my iPhone this way.
Quote from: Madiel on September 23, 2024, 09:18:55 PMI have to confess not knowing much about this stuff. I AirPlay services from my iPhone to my CD player's speakers. This works fine for both Idagio and Deezer, so an awful lot of my music at home is run from my iPhone this way.
Most of the time, I am using wired headphones at my desk or airpods pro2 on my phone, so it's not a problem. I will occasionally bluetooth to Alexa, though.
No service works as smoothly with Alexa devices as Spotify, not even amazon music. But it's not a world-ender to not have that "Connect" capability.
If someone uses third party devices outside of phone and desktop, though, then presumably something like TIDAL works better. (I am currently using TIDAL for my non-classical library - sounds like you use Deezer.)
Quote from: NumberSix on September 23, 2024, 09:23:21 PMMost of the time, I am using wired headphones at my desk or airpods pro2 on my phone, so it's not a problem. I will occasionally bluetooth to Alexa, though.
No service works as smoothly with Alexa devices as Spotify, not even amazon music. But it's not a world-ender to not have that "Connect" capability.
If someone uses third party devices outside of phone and desktop, though, then presumably something like TIDAL works better. (I am currently using TIDAL for my non-classical library - sounds like you use Deezer.)
Qobuz works fine for me. Initially, I was comparing and choosing between Tidal and Qobuz (this was before Amazon and Apple services appeared) and ended up choosing Qobuz. I might have reconsidered my selection with the emergence/upgrade of some services on the market, but I just paid again for the annual subscription at the end of August, so I'll wait for now.
Have you guys received an email from Qobuz yesterday indicating that some recordings would become unavailable for streaming/purchasing for 1st Oct. and then a subsequent email indicating which of your purchases that would impact (not-redownloadable after this date)? If so, would you mind sharing which labels you have seen impacted please?
From my side, it was 2 x Chandos (Pierné), 1 x Bis (VIlla-Lobos Choros), 6 x Supraphon (but not all of them: 6 Ancerl Gold out of 12 purchased).
Just wanted to know which potential labels (and therefore future purchases) might be impacted and might need brought forward.
Thank you.
Quote from: Papy Oli on September 25, 2024, 11:06:08 PMHave you guys received an email from Qobuz yesterday indicating that some recordings would become unavailable for streaming/purchasing for 1st Oct. and then a subsequent email indicating which of your purchases that would impact (not-redownloadable after this date)? If so, would you mind sharing which labels you have seen impacted please?
From my side, it was 2 x Chandos (Pierné), 1 x Bis (VIlla-Lobos Choros), 6 x Supraphon (but not all of them: 6 Ancerl Gold out of 12 purchased).
Just wanted to know which potential labels (and therefore future purchases) might be impacted and might need brought forward.
Thank you.
Since I have never purchased anything on Qobuz and only used streaming, I haven't received any emails, and I probably won't. I have a UK account, and perhaps the conditions differ depending on the country. From various sources of information, Chandos is often mentioned, and BIS occasionally. Now Supraphon too. I'm sorry if some important recordings on BIS disappear, like Suzuki or Pettersson's symphonies. Well, in this life, nothing is continuous; everything arises from nowhere and disappears into nowhere. Hyperion came, Chandos left. I'll manage somehow, I'm used to it.
Quote from: AnotherSpin on September 26, 2024, 02:19:01 AMSince I have never purchased anything on Qobuz and only used streaming, I haven't received any emails, and I probably won't. I have a UK account, and perhaps the conditions differ depending on the country. From various sources of information, Chandos is often mentioned, and BIS occasionally. Now Supraphon too. I'm sorry if some important recordings on BIS disappear, like Suzuki or Pettersson's symphonies. Well, in this life, nothing is continuous; everything arises from nowhere and disappears into nowhere. Hyperion came, Chandos left. I'll manage somehow, I'm used to it.
The BIS pettersson was one set on my wishlist funnily enough. I saw Chandos and BIS being 'greyed out' overnight a few years ago when I streamed on Qobuz.
I was just curious to see the extent of labels or recordings this time (compared to my wishlist items). Guess I'll have to wait and see :)
My Idagio trial ends in about a week, and I decided it made more sense to use Presto and not pay for renewal. (Presto and Spotify are both paid up through March or April.)
But after switching back to Presto for my classical, I made it about a day. I am now spoiled by this Idagio service. As you guys can see from my previous comments, it took me a minute.
But now I don't want to use anything else for my main classical listening. >:D
October has arrived, and I don't see any changes in Qobuz yet; everything seems to be in place. Masaaki Suzuki on BIS, Bavouzet on Chandos, it's all here. Of course, I haven't checked thoroughly, so maybe I missed something.