Not to be confused with "Top 12 Favorite Five-Tone Works".
1. Webern Symphony
2. Berg Chamber Concerto
3. Schoenberg Piano Concerto
4. Berg Violin Concerto
5. Stockhausen Gruppen
No answers to a poll? I expect more from GMG'ers...
"12 tone" in the Schoenberg sense? Not necessarily?
Webern - Concerto
Skalkottas - 4th string quartet
Barraqué - Concerto for clarinet, vibraphone + 6 instrumental groups
Valen - La cimitière marin
Schoenberg - Serenade
Copland Connotations
Berg Violin Concerto
Boulez Répons
Schoenberg Piano Concerto
Stravinsky Agon
Sarge
Quote from: Sergeant Rock on July 25, 2015, 03:00:20 AM
Copland Connotations
Berg Violin Concerto
Boulez Répons
Schoenberg Piano Concerto
Stravinsky Agon
Sarge
Unfortunately Agon is not 12-tone, and I'm not certain about Répons. (The central pas-de-deux from Agon is 12-tone, but none of the surrounding music.) I have to admit that from Schoenberg I greatly prefer the earlier atonal works like Erwartung and the Five Orchestral Pieces to most of his 12-tone works, where I feel that ironically. the row constricted his powers of invention. (Things like the Wind Quintet and Serenade are to me almost unlistenable.)
That said, I do like some of the dodecaphonic works of Berg, Webern, and early Boulez. So I'll vote for Webern's Concerto for Nine Instruments and Das Augenlight, Berg's Lulu and Chamber Concerto, and Boulez's Marteau. If Pli selon pli is genuinely 12-tone, I'll vote for it too.
Quote from: EigenUser on July 25, 2015, 01:43:10 AM
No answers to a poll? I expect more from GMG'ers...
Am happy to contribute but suspect my choices may not be Twelve Tone due to musical technical ignorance. ::)
I'm also happy to go along with Sarge's choice of 'Connotations' by Copland
Usko Merilainen: Symphony 3
Blomdahl: Symphony 3 'Facetter'
Hoddinott: Symphony 3. I gather that his work 'encroaches on tonality' ???
Lilburn: Symphony 3
Quote from: (poco) Sforzando on July 25, 2015, 06:17:36 AM
Unfortunately Agon is not 12-tone, and I'm not certain about Répons. (The central pas-de-deux from Agon is 12-tone, but none of the surrounding music.) I have to admit that from Schoenberg I greatly prefer the earlier atonal works like Erwartung and the Five Orchestral Pieces to most of his 12-tone works, where I feel that ironically. the row constricted his powers of invention. (Things like the Wind Quintet and Serenade are to me almost unlistenable.)
That said, I do like some of the dodecaphonic works of Berg, Webern, and early Boulez. So I'll vote for Webern's Concerto for Nine Instruments and Das Augenlight, Berg's Lulu and Chamber Concerto, and Boulez's Marteau. If Pli selon pli is genuinely 12-tone, I'll vote for it too.
Agon does have a 12-tone row in it, but it isn't exclusively dodecaphonic. In fact, it certainly seems to have a home key of C-major. I'd replace the Stockhausen with this. I'm not sure about
Repons, either.
I guess it is kind of a grey area. I wanted to include the orchestrated
Notations by Boulez, but they are so far removed from the original twelve-tone piano pieces that I'm not sure how much of a role (if any) the rows play in the orchestral version.
If my choices above are irrelevant how about:
Norgard: Symphony 3
Ruggles: Sun Treader.
Do these count?
Quote from: (poco) Sforzando on July 25, 2015, 06:17:36 AM
Unfortunately Agon is not 12-tone, and I'm not certain about Répons[...]Things like the Wind Quintet and Serenade are to me almost unlistenable.
True, they are not strictly, or entirely 12-tone but they do employ elements of or techniques of 12-tone. However if they don't qualify I'll substitute Schoenberg's
Serenade op.24, which I do find more than listenable. And
Moses und Aron.
Sarge
Quote from: Sergeant Rock on July 26, 2015, 03:14:06 AM
And Moses und Aron.
Sarge
Amen!
Just a few more than 5 0:)
Schoenberg: String Quartets III and
IV Piano Concerto, Violin ConcertoSkalkottas:
The Return of Ulysses, Piano Concerto #1Wuorinen:
Grand Bamboula
Are you sure that The Maiden and Death is 12-note?
Quote from: Dax on July 26, 2015, 10:44:13 AM
Are you sure that The Maiden and Death is 12-note?
Fixed: I was thinking of
The Return of Ulysses, and became distracted while looking at the notes in the CD's again!
Schoenberg: Variations for Orchestra
Schoenberg: A Survivor from Warsaw (I'm pretty sure this is 12-tone; amazing tone poem!)
Webern: Symphonie
Berg: Wozzeck
Richard Rodney Bennett: Sonata for Oboe and Piano (I'm prejudiced; I've played this piece in recital! ;D )
Quote from: jochanaan on July 27, 2015, 07:58:53 AM
Berg: Wozzeck
Great work, to my mind maybe the greatest opera of the 20th century, but not 12-tone.
Late Webern, uses the technique, which is just a technique, but he transcends all that and creates powerful door-opening music.
Wuorinen - Piano Quintet #2
Webern - Variations for Piano
Stravinsky - Requiem Canticles
Goeyvaerts - Nummer series
Boulez - Piano sonata no. 2
Krenek - Lamentatio Jeremiae prophetae
Quote from: James on July 27, 2015, 08:55:39 AM
Late Webern, uses the technique, which is just a technique, but he transcends all that and creates powerful door-opening music.
I would say Webern uses the technique Schoenberg developed in its purest form. Take for instance the Concerto for Nine Instruments, a piece I know particularly well. The row - B-Bb-D / Eb-G-F# / Ab-E-F / C-C#-A - is constructed so that each set of three notes outlines a major seventh and a major third, and each of these three-note cells is in some way a retrograde and/or an inversion to one of the others. This intervallic structure also gives the piece its unique characteristic sound, in which the cells are sometimes heard in sequence and other times in chords, but always without any hint of conventional tonality (v.s. say the start of Schoenberg's Variations for Orchestra, where Schoenberg begins the piece by extracting two tritones that outline a diminished seventh chord).
Berg - Lulu
Berg - Violin Concerto
Berg - Lyric Suite
Webern - Variations for Piano
Boulez - Piano Sonata 1
Quote from: Cato on July 26, 2015, 12:48:54 PM
The Return of Ulysses
For those who would like to hear
Skalkottas:
https://www.youtube.com/v/D48jbbcPUEw
Is there a way that I can tell, as a listener, whether a piece is 12 tone? That's to stay, is it a style? Or is it just a technical thing which I can leave to composers and music analysts to worry about?
Let me take some examples, is the Schoenberg String Trio twelve tone? Is Ferneyhough's 6th quartet? Is Finnissy's 3rd Quartet? lachenmann's Gran Torso? Nono's Prometeo? The Barraque concerto? Is the Birtwistle piano trio? I don't know how to tell.
Anyway if the answer's yes to five of those, there's a list from me.
I think it is extremely hard to tell, unless one has the skill to do an analysis and actually does look at the score. I am sure I cannot tell by listening.
E.g. of Berg's Lyric Suite (which is probably my favorite 12 tone /atonal piece) 3? of the 6 movements are 12 tone (e.g. the 1st, I do not remember the details) and the others are not. I am sure, I do not hear this as a salient difference.
Support from me for Schoenberg's 'A Survivor from Warsaw' - a very harrowing but powerful work.