GMG Classical Music Forum

So according to the reviewer (J. Morgenstern) in the Wall Street Journal...

Quote... "Star Wars: The Force Awakens" flatters old and new audiences alike, and straddles generations with aplomb. "You're Han Solo?" asks the startled young heroine, Rey, after the gallant old guy has come aboard a battered old spaceship—the Millennium Falcon, of course—that she, a scavenger by trade but also a pilot, has chanced to purloin. (Rey is played, dazzlingly, by Daisy Ridley.) "I used to be," Han replies with a small, sardonic grin owned solely by Harrison Ford. Rarely have age and shining youth been juxtaposed more affectingly, but that's only one of many moments of grace in a movie that mines its resonant mythology while moving its story ever forward....

... (The sugar-free, spice-rich script for "The Force Awakens" was written by Mr. Abrams, Lawrence Kasdan and Michael Arndt.) The Empire may have been vanquished, along with Darth Vader, but every age brings new threats and the current one is the First Order, a military junta with legions of Stormtroopers and its own incarnation of deep-dyed evil in Kylo Ren, an extremely bad guy played extremely well by Adam Driver.
On the other side of the gathering conflict are an accidental heroine and a reluctant hero, and they're both, in their respective ways, brilliant creations. The most significant thing about Ms. Ridley's Rey is that she is a she—a scavenger, yes, and lots more that we'll get to momentarily, but a heroine who carries on her slender shoulders the latest chunk of an entertainment megalith that has been mainly revered by boys.

Rey changes that almost instantly. She's a street kid in the trackless sands of a desert planet, an adorable hoyden in a simple skirt and tunic that give her a biblical look. And she becomes a woman warrior with the stylish ferocity of a kung-fu star, except that she does it without wires....

Mr. Morgenstern is usually hard to please, so this may be a good indication that the new film does not "suck eggs," as my mother used to say.

All kinds of nonsense (or is it?) on the Internet about plot points being revealed, e.g. Luke kills Han Solo, Luke is the new Darth Vader, etc.

Will you see it?  Some of my students bought tickets in October and things were sold out until Dec. 27th back then!  Supposedly half of all screens in America will be showing the thing.

I'll see it because my wife wants to.

Quote from: Super Blood Moon on December 16, 2015, 04:20:01 AM
I'll see it because my wife wants to.

That's exactly what I expected you to say  8)

Quote from: Super Blood Moon on December 16, 2015, 04:20:01 AM
I'll see it because my wife wants to.

Quote from: karlhenning on December 16, 2015, 04:50:47 AM
That's exactly what I expected you to say  8)

All intelligent husbands agree to see whatever their wives want to see!  8) 0:) ;)   "Expand your horizons!"  $:)

Quote from: Cato on December 16, 2015, 04:56:17 AM
All intelligent husbands agree to see whatever their wives want to see!  8) 0:) ;)   "Expand your horizons!"  $:)

I'm watching it with my wife and two grown up kids expecting some of the old magic to reappear after those 3 pretty variable (to put it nicely) prequels. 

Quote from: The new erato on December 16, 2015, 05:24:41 AM
I'm watching it with my wife and two grown up kids expecting some of the old magic to reappear after those 3 pretty variable (to put it nicely) prequels.

The career and (apparently modest?) talent of George Lucas remind me of an untrained musician who comes up with the most beautiful melodies, but has little idea of how to develop them properly.  A musician with little inspiration, however, takes the other man's ideas and composes symphonies with them.

He did one really brilliant mvie, American Graffiti.

Quote from: Cato on December 16, 2015, 06:17:54 AM
The career and (apparently modest?) talent of George Lucas remind me of an untrained musician who comes up with the most beautiful melodies, but has little idea of how to develop them properly.  A musician with little inspiration, however, takes the other man's ideas and composes symphonies with them.

George Lucas is one of the very rare examples of an artist who created a great work but possessed no talent whatsoever. Quite frankly, the 1970s-80s Star Wars movies seem to have been great by mistake.

Quote from: Brian on December 16, 2015, 06:41:09 AM
George Lucas is one of the very rare examples of an artist who created a great work but possessed no talent whatsoever. Quite frankly, the 1970s-80s Star Wars movies seem to have been great by mistake.

That is as reasonable and as artistic a view as any  :)

Quote from: Brian on December 16, 2015, 06:41:09 AMGeorge Lucas is one of the very rare examples of an artist who created a great work but possessed no talent whatsoever.

I disagree.  Lucas very clearly has immense talent when it comes to marketing and cutting advantageous financial deals.  He also was able, with the help of others, of course, to push special effects forward and helped create entire companies (Lucasfilm and Pixar) that allow movies of today to be made.  His use of special effects was and is visionary.  His not an auteur in the sense of Coppola or Hitchcock or whatever other great you choose, but he clearly had and has talent.

Quote from: Todd on December 16, 2015, 07:52:31 AM


I disagree.  Lucas very clearly has immense talent when it comes to marketing and cutting advantageous financial deals.  He also was able, with the help of others, of course, to push special effects forward and helped create entire companies (Lucasfilm and Pixar) that allow movies of today to be made.  His use of special effects was and is visionary.  His not an auteur in the sense of Coppola or Hitchcock or whatever other great you choose, but he clearly had and has talent.

That talent is obvious: he may have the talent of spotting talent in other people, and letting them develop their ideas to the fullest.

Quote from: Todd on December 16, 2015, 07:52:31 AM
He is not an auteur in the sense of Coppola or Hitchcock or whatever other great you choose, but he clearly had and has talent.

True!

Quote from: Todd on December 16, 2015, 07:52:31 AM


I disagree.  Lucas very clearly has immense talent when it comes to marketing and cutting advantageous financial deals.  He also was able, with the help of others, of course, to push special effects forward and helped create entire companies (Lucasfilm and Pixar) that allow movies of today to be made.  His use of special effects was and is visionary.  His not an auteur in the sense of Coppola or Hitchcock or whatever other great you choose, but he clearly had and has talent.

I agree. Nice to see someone else say it. :)

8)

Quote from: Cato on December 16, 2015, 06:17:54 AM
The career and (apparently modest?) talent of George Lucas remind me of an untrained musician who comes up with the most beautiful melodies, but has little idea of how to develop them properly. A musician with little inspiration, however, takes the other man's ideas and composes symphonies with them.

I see him as the "musician with little inspiration".  The original trilogy is very much a blend of tropes familiar from classic westerns and samurai films,  cast into the mold of space fantasy.

Which perhaps explains why the second trilogy was a failure.

This applied to his scriptwriting abilities.  What Todd said about his other talents is true.

Quote from: Jeffrey Smith on December 16, 2015, 08:29:18 AM
I see him as the "musician with little inspiration".  The original trilogy is very much a blend of tropes familiar from classic westerns and samurai films,  cast into the mold of space fantasy.

Which perhaps explains why the second trilogy was a failure.

This applied to his scriptwriting abilities.  What Todd said about his other talents is true.

Yes.

Not sure it's going to be loud enough. Knock yourself out, nerds. 

Lucas is a visionary genius. His teachers were amazed by his talent when he was in USC. In the campus he was a legend, whose student films were awaited events. It takes a genius to create Star Wars. It seems most people don't understand Lucas at all.

Quote from: 71 dB on December 16, 2015, 10:08:23 AM
It seems most people don't understand Lucas at all.

Maybe Lucas doesn't understand most people. One thing is sure, he is no Kubrick!

Quote from: 71 dB on December 16, 2015, 10:08:23 AM
Lucas is a visionary genius. His teachers were amazed by his talent when he was in USC. In the campus he was a legend, whose student films were awaited events. It takes a genius to create Star Wars. It seems most people don't understand Lucas at all.

I guess only the people who think Lucas is a genius understand Lucas.

I was going to stay out of this thread because I remember how sensitive some people who are excited about this new film got when J.J Abrams was criticized in the last thread about this movie. And here I find Lucas being criticized when it's J.J Abrams who is undoubtedly a more sinister and cancerous force in Hollywood, a mediocrity who covers up his lack of writing and directorial skills with panache and momentum and for some bizarre reason keeps getting to helm juicy properties. Critics are saying the same things about this new Star Wars film as they said about the recent Star Trek films, which is "yea, it's pretty good..."

Do you fondly remember the recent Star Trek films? That will be the new Star Wars in a nutshell, good or bad.

Quote from: -abe- on December 16, 2015, 01:50:54 PM
I was going to stay out of this thread because I remember how sensitive some people who are excited about this new film got when J.J Abrams was criticized in the last thread about this movie. And here I find Lucas being criticized when it's J.J Abrams who is undoubtedly a more sinister and cancerous force in Hollywood, a mediocrity who covers up his lack of writing and directorial skills with panache and momentum and for some bizarre reason keeps getting to helm juicy properties. Critics are saying the same things about this new Star Wars film as they said about the recent Star Trek films, which is "yea, it's pretty good..."

Do you fondly remember the recent Star Trek films? That will be the new Star Wars in a nutshell, good or bad.

The script is credited to three people, Abrams, Michael Arndt, and Lawrence Kasdan: given such a collaboration, it is probably well nigh impossible to determine who might be responsible for a good idea, or for a bad idea....given the egos in Hollywood.  I suppose we will eventually discover how they collaborated.

Arndt has some good ( Toy Story III) )and not so good movies ( A Walk in the Woods ) to his credit, and Kasdan of course worked on Star Wars V, VI and Raiders of the Lost Ark along with many others good  ( The Big Chill ) and not so good  ( Grand Canyon ).

Who knows?  I will not see it for several months because of the crowds: maybe late in February on a cold Tuesday night!   0:)

Possibly...would hope to be proven wrong!

[POSSIBLE SPOILERS....of a film released 31 years ago  ;D ]
Went through the original trilogy with my 6 year old for the first time last week. His favorite was Return of the Jedi, for one reason he said, "because Darth Vader helped Luke."

I'm very excited for the new Star Wars, my tickets are for Friday morning. And currently it has a 94% rating on Rotten Tomatoes based on 127 reviews.

Quote from: TheGSMoeller on December 16, 2015, 05:05:31 PM
[POSSIBLE SPOILERS....of a film released 31 years ago  ;D ]
Went through the original trilogy with my 6 year old for the first time last week. His favorite was Return of the Jedi, for one reason he said, "because Darth Vader helped Luke."

I'm very excited for the new Star Wars, my tickets are for Friday morning. And currently it has a 94% rating on Rotten Tomatoes based on 127 reviews.

The tomatometer is a bit insidious because the number alone doesn't tell you the nature of the positive critical consensus, whether the critics are being awe struck and and calling a film a masterpiece or whether they're just saying "yea...it's merely good." The reviews of this film are in the latter category. Not to rain in on anyone's parade...will likely see it myself this weekend or sometime after.

I discovered a new film critic who has a sizable following on the web. His review of "The Force Awakens" is pretty good and touches on the concerns I had about the film but he nonetheless ends up recommending it.

Dude's name is Devin Faraci and he's a decent writer:

http://birthmoviesdeath.com/2015/12/16/star-wars-the-force-awakens-review

Quote from: -abe- on December 16, 2015, 10:49:16 PM
The tomatometer is a bit insidious because the number alone doesn't tell you the nature of the positive critical consensus, whether the critics are being awe struck and and calling a film a masterpiece or whether they're just saying "yea...it's merely good." The reviews of this film are in the latter category. Not to rain in on anyone's parade...will likely see it myself this weekend or sometime after.

I agree, Abe, that RT is not accurately scoring the film, I normally see it more as a recommendation meter than a critique meter.
Metacritic.com will actually have the critic score the film from 0-100. Which SW:TFA is at 81 currently, so you can see a little difference in the 94% and 81 score.
But regardless, may the force be you.  8)

Devin Faraci is cool. He has a fun podcast where he and another critic argue about whether certain movies are classics or not.

Quote from: TheGSMoeller on December 16, 2015, 05:05:31 PM
[POSSIBLE SPOILERS....of a film released 31 years ago  ;D ]
Went through the original trilogy with my 6 year old for the first time last week. His favorite was Return of the Jedi, for one reason he said, "because Darth Vader helped Luke."

So, an emotional depth, which was lacking in the first two movies, spoke to the youngster: excellent  8)

kill whitey

"... a worshiped pop-culture franchise with a rabid legion of disciples ...."

Quote from: karlhenning on December 18, 2015, 10:19:37 AM
"... a worshiped pop-culture franchise with a rabid legion of disciples ...."

Extracted like that, it seems rather lurid . . . but in the context, the writer wasn't really saying it like it's a bad thing . . . .

Loved the film. It's the Star Wars movie Ive been waiting 30 years for. Great new characters to carry a new trilogy as well. I'll admit I got chills from even seeing the opening text scroll, and several times from just hearing motifs from John Williams' score.
Can't wait to see it again.  :)

     I've never seen a Star Wars movie. _{(http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/Smileys/classic/smiley.gif)}

     

Quote from: drogulus on December 18, 2015, 01:12:53 PM
     I've never seen a Star Wars movie. _{(http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/Smileys/classic/smiley.gif)}
 

Not even the original trilogy (which are numbered IV - VI)? - have those on blu-ray now (below, left) - our son was about 4 y/o when the first one came out in 1977 - had to see it a few more times w/ him when he then would carry his little toy characters (a handful of the ones below, right) w/ him - wish that I could re-live those times - he's now 42 y/o!  BOY, time really does fly, like the Millennium Falcon - ;)  Dave

(http://images.static-bluray.com/movies/covers/19623_front.jpg)  (http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-GkloZT03eBU/Uricf2h2zXI/AAAAAAAAAXA/REwT576iDuA/s1600/figures1.jpg)

I will see it when it comes out on DVD....I don't want to be surrounded by Star Wars fans in the cinema! I am not a big fan of Star Wars, but I have seen it. Easy story line to dull one's mind. Perhaps the VII will be better.

Quote from: ComposerOfAvantGarde on December 18, 2015, 02:46:49 PM
I will see it when it comes out on DVD....I don't want to be surrounded by Star Wars fans in the cinema! I am not a big fan of Star Wars, but I have seen it. Easy story line to dull one's mind. Perhaps the VII will be better.

+1

Here is a very positive review
https://reason.com/archives/2015/12/18/movie-reviewstar-wars-the-force-awakens

(http://s10.postimg.org/s9bzwnw9l/BBT_SW.jpg)

And you thought Star Wars was all fun and games. (http://www.economist.com/news/finance-and-economics/21684165-force-economics-binds-galaxy-together-wookienomics)

Quote from: Todd on December 19, 2015, 08:50:38 AM
And you thought Star Wars was all fun and games. (http://www.economist.com/news/finance-and-economics/21684165-force-economics-binds-galaxy-together-wookienomics)

That was fun!

Quotethose most dreaded of creatures: economists

Watching it on the 26th with wife and two adult kids, and looking forward to it.

Quote from: The new erato on December 19, 2015, 09:16:33 AM
Watching it on the 26th with wife and two adult kids, and looking forward to it.

You'll have a blast!

Quote from: karlhenning on December 19, 2015, 09:25:39 AM
You'll have a blast!

We need 4 blasters!

Saw it today, loved most of it. The first half is almost flawless, the second feels rushed at times. My only real complaint goes to the music, unfortunately - not a memorable theme to be heard, aside from the good old tunes. There was not a single moment heightened by the music itself, which, compared to the originals, was a HUGE letdown.

I actually prefer a film score to not have memorable themes. It then truly becomes inseparable from the visuals and adds more to the overall atmosphere.

Quote from: ComposerOfAvantGarde on December 19, 2015, 04:53:40 PM
I actually prefer a film score to not have memorable themes. It then truly becomes inseparable from the visuals and adds more to the overall atmosphere.

You think the originals would've fared better if there was no Force theme or The Imperial March?

I prefer the film score to elevate the movie by whichever means suits the moving pictures. Williams' Force Awakens does nothing in that respect.

nvm

I saw it today with a friend.  Very enjoyable, but it seemed to cover little new territory; mostly a "next generation" carrying on the mythology that began in 1977.  I was most interested in Carrie Fisher's presence and performance.  On the one hand, she seems to have let herself age naturally, not a bad thing at all; but she can still dominate the screen, and her deep contralto voice still gives me shivers! ;D And Harrison Ford is still Han Solo as he was. 8)

Quote from: Rinaldo on December 19, 2015, 05:42:59 PM
You think the originals would've fared better if there was no Force theme or The Imperial March?

I prefer the film score to elevate the movie by whichever means suits the moving pictures. Williams' Force Awakens does nothing in that respect.

Different tastes then. :)

I was speaking of film scores in general: the moments I like better are when the music is almost unnoticed as a separate layer because of how well it effectively becomes part of what is seen on screen. Tbh, themes like the Imperial March in the original trilogy were my least favourite moments in the music when I first saw the films.

(http://s18.postimg.org/x4xhf4quw/BBT_SW.jpg)

My thoughts after seeing it and stay away for possible spoilers:




Loved the two new main characters, Finn and Rae.  I thought their story was engaging and interesting.  I wished they would have followed them more and spent less time creating moments for the "family reunions" that made the film stall or seemed contrived just to get old characters screen time to appease those more interested in nostalgia.  Hopefully, they will be used more in upcoming episodes.

As for the rest of the movie, it seemed just like a reboot plot wise from the previous runs.  Add to this the likes of Carrie Fischer who's acting skills were painful at best to take in when she had screen time....and Ford's work was not much better, IMO>

However, probably the weakest component was whole villain thing at the micro and macro level.  Just a total rehash, but without the fizz of the previous 4-6 films. 

Better than 1-3, but I was not overly impressed.  Hopefully the nostalgic reunion moments and references carry the film for you.   They did not for me.  There have been a lot of "new" Star Wars stories written over the years and even some decent ones with the old characters.  Too bad they opted for a script that did not take a risk and took the series take a new exciting direction.   Maybe it eventually will (with fingers crossed).

"Star Wars: The Force Awakens" brought in a galactic $238 million over the weekend, making it the biggest North American debut of all time according to studio estimates on Sunday. (http://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/2015/12/21/star-wars-blasts-box-office-records-on-opening-weekend/?intcmp=hpff)

Quote from: Bogey on December 21, 2015, 04:48:24 AMLoved the two new main characters, Finn and Rae.  I thought their story was engaging and interesting.

Yes, both of them make for great new heroes.

QuoteAs for the rest of the movie, it seemed just like a reboot plot wise from the previous runs.  Add to this the likes of Carrie Fischer who's acting skills were painful at best to take in when she had screen time....and Ford's work was not much better, IMO>

Leia was absolutely useless and Carrie's bland performance didn't help either. But Ford surprised me and I thought his 'good old old' Han worked really well.

As for the bad guy, I think the stage is set for the sequels to take a more daring direction.

Quote from: Rinaldo on December 21, 2015, 06:25:34 AM
Leia was absolutely useless and Carrie's bland performance didn't help either. But Ford surprised me and I thought his 'good old old' Han worked really well.

My opinion exactly.


Spoilers!!!!!!!!!!!












Mostly loved the movie, although it had couple of bad things. The first half was clearly better than the second. I loved Kylo Ren's rages but only when he had his mask on, especially when he starts slashing that control panel. When he didn't have his mask on it reminded me of Hayden Christensen's performance. But I suppose the whole point of the character was to show how insecure he was. Carrie, as has been said, was bland. What the hell happened to her. At first I wasn't impressed by the new Emperor figure (Snoke, I think his name was), it was bit corny and reminded me of Halo in a bad way. But later scenes made him appear much more imposing. And yes, not a really memorable score from John Williams. One character I really didn't like was Maz Kanata. Pretty annoying, although not on Jar Jar Binks-level of annoying. The closing scene was bit clumsily filmed. But this is nitpicking, easily the best Star Wars movie in 30 years.


And I saw that one character's death coming. Not to brag or anything, probably 95 % of the audience guessed it beforehand.


How much was Hamill paid for the great effort of showing his face in the film for a grand total of twenty seconds?

Thanks for the Spoilers warnings, gents!

Did you know Daniel Craig had a cameo in this movie?

Quote from: Alberich on December 21, 2015, 08:11:41 AM
Did you know Daniel Craig had a cameo in this movie?

He was the original Jabba the Hutt.

Quote from: karlhenning on December 21, 2015, 08:22:10 AM
He was the original Jabba the Hutt.

Post of the year :D

(https://scontent-lax3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xlf1/v/t1.0-9/10984988_10153241373295935_7040063342908919227_n.jpg?oh=d760fb4cfe468955d33eb419001922c9&oe=5709CFD9)


;D

Apparently assorted "Feminist" writers never really watched the original movies:

Quote...I like Rey. Daisy Ridley brings the right amount of joy and wonder to the character, cutting force-empowered hyper-competence with the right hint of surprised determination. But the fact that feminists are hailing her (and a couple of other bit-part characters) as some sort of ideological revelation shows how little they know about modern science fiction, including Star Wars itself. Perhaps my favorite piece in this nonsensical vein was Jezebel's "Finally, Women Do More than Give Birth and Die in Star Wars: The Force Awakens." But writing in more sober tones, columnists at The Atlantic and Slate couldn't help but declare basically the same thing: that the new movie is distinctively different and more feminist than every other entry in the franchise. "Rey . . . is Star Wars's first feminist protagonist," gushed The Atlantic's Megan Garber. "No distressing damsel, she's instead a fighter and a survivor and a nurturer and an all-around badass...

...Carrie Fisher's character blasted stormtroopers, resisted torture, gave up her home planet for obliteration, mocked her "rescuers," blasted more stormtroopers, and helped plan the attack on the Death Star, all in the trilogy's first two hours. Subsequent installments saw her do even more blasting and play an even bigger role in the military affairs of the Rebel Alliance...

Leia paved the way for the legions of butt-kicking females that dominate modern sci-fi/fantasy films. From Sigourney Weaver to Angelina Jolie to Mila Jovovich to Scarlet Johansson to Jennifer Lawrence, the empowered woman is everywhere. She outfights men, outthinks men, and displays physical prowess that the mind can scarcely comprehend. Does anyone remember Serenity? At the climax of the movie, River, a young girl who looks like she weighs 100 pounds soaking wet, takes down dozens of rabid, howling "reavers" in hand-to-hand combat. It's a gripping scene, and not atypical for the genre.

See:

http://www.nationalreview.com/article/428858/stars-wars-clueless-feminist-fans (http://www.nationalreview.com/article/428858/stars-wars-clueless-feminist-fans)

Thanks to Karl Henning for the link:

Quote...J.J. Abrams's baldfaced rip-off of the original Star Wars is, by far, the most innovative thing about The Force Awakens. What he's done is found a way to take the most important innovation of comic books — the one that has led to their total dominance of contemporary cinema — and apply it to the Star Wars franchise....

...In the Marvel and DC universes, the franchises are rebooted again and again, with the origin story changing a bit in each run. Peter Parker has been bitten by that radioactive spider dozens of times by now...

...Sometimes these origin stories exist parallel to, but separate from, the original story (the Ultimate comics, for instance, began in a different universe from the main arcs). Sometimes they write over the original story, a process known as "retconning." Sometimes the relationship is never explained at all. It's all a bit weird. But no one really cared how weird comics were, because the broader culture didn't really care about comics.

But it turned out that this strange rulebook was a huge advantage when comics came to cinema. Batman has been launched and relaunched on the silver screen, with his origin stories setting up different tales with different moods fit for different audiences. The only reason Batman Begins could exist was that it was permitted, under the weird rules of comic books, for Christopher Nolan to simply overwrite Tim Burton's work....

...Abrams is doing something that you could previously only do in comics — clearly retell the origin story, but change crucial facts and faces so the series can go in a new direction. His innovation is to tell what is putatively a new story but make it so clearly the old story that no one misses the point, and to bring in the old characters so the film feels like it's honoring, rather than betraying, its past....

See:

http://www.vox.com/2015/12/22/10649574/star-wars-force-awakens-comic-books (http://www.vox.com/2015/12/22/10649574/star-wars-force-awakens-comic-books)

What say ye who have seen the movie?  8)

And CAUTION: the link provided in the article takes you to the previous essay, which contains some huge spoilers!

Quote from: Cato on December 22, 2015, 12:48:47 PM
Thanks to Karl Henning for the link:

See:

http://www.vox.com/2015/12/22/10649574/star-wars-force-awakens-comic-books (http://www.vox.com/2015/12/22/10649574/star-wars-force-awakens-comic-books)

What say ye who have seen the movie?  8)

And CAUTION: the link provided in the article takes you to the previous essay, which contains some huge spoilers!

Not so much a "reboot"; more a "Next Generation" without quite the originality and boundary-pushing of STNG.

Despite my wishes, i actually got to see it (joys of being an uncle). Terrible doesn't even begin to describe it. Literally the worst pile of crap this side of the prequels. Compared to those it looks a little nicer, and the direction seemed to be better. Aside for that, it is on the same level of bad. Unbelievable. Wasn't expecting much but man. The only thing that holds the film together is fan service and nostalgia, which felt massively exploitative. Everything new in the film is just plain forgettable, down to the rat-faced Anakin redux.

Quote from: Purusha on December 23, 2015, 07:09:26 AM
Despite my wishes, i actually got to see it (joys of being an uncle). Terrible doesn't even begin to describe it. Literally the worst pile of crap this side of the prequels. Compared to those it looks a little nicer, and the direction seemed to be better. Aside for that, it is on the same level of bad. Unbelievable. Wasn't expecting much but man. The only thing that holds the film together is fan service and nostalgia, which felt massively exploitative. Everything new in the film is just plain forgettable, down to the rat-faced Anakin redux.

WOW!  So far yours is the most negative reaction I have read!

To be sure, the previous article showing the (many?) parallels to the first (IV) movie has me both intrigued and a little less enthusiastic.

But I remain open to being impressed!  0:)

That comparison to Michael Bay is uncalled for, Purusha.

Michael Bay made some good movies! :D

(Though I don't agree with the resentment you're showing to the race of one character. Suddenly "token" means every black character that's part of an ensemble. Also there was a lot of racist grumbling from certain corners of the web about this character being black.)

Quote from: Purusha on December 23, 2015, 10:19:42 AMJ. J. Abrams is like a more technically proficient Michael Bay.

I agree.

Quote from: Purusha on December 23, 2015, 10:19:42 AMEverything in the film is calculated to make money and nothing more. No artistic integrity whatsoever basically, just fodder for the lowest common denominator wrapped in a pretty exterior.

I agree again. Fortunately it's Star Wars so there's a lot to enjoy (if you are a Star Wars fan).

I watched episodes I and II again on Blu-ray very recently. Compared to episode VII they look almost like European art movies, especially the scenes with Pernilla August. Disney could use Lucas's creative mind, but their goals are so different. Disney wants to please the fans and make money while Lucas wants to tell the story.

Quote from: 71 dB on December 23, 2015, 01:47:58 PMDisney wants to please the fans and make money while Lucas wants to tell the story.

I don't agree. What Lucas wanted was to let a great series sit in the dustbin of yesteryear and let it simply lie dormant until he felt the need to make another film, which would have been perhaps never. I haven't seen the new film, and will reserve judgement until I've actually seen it, but I think it's a positive thing to see other directors/writers take a crack at this franchise. Would it be nice to have Lucas onboard as a some kind of creative consultant? Sure, especially since this entire universe came from his mind, but I think prior to The Force Awakens, Lucas himself was the only hinderance in regard to moving this story forward.

Quote from: Cato on December 23, 2015, 07:59:19 AM
WOW!  So far yours is the most negative reaction I have read!

To be sure, the previous article showing the (many?) parallels to the first (IV) movie has me both intrigued and a little less enthusiastic.

But I remain open to being impressed!  0:)

Is there anything that Purusha has posted that isn't negative? I take everything that guy says with a grain of salt.

The reviewer for the Vatican's newspaper was not very impressed: Aligreto would probably agree with it!

Quote..."Not a classy reboot however, like Nolan's Batman, but a twisted update which fits today's tastes and a public more accustomed to sitting in front of a computer than in a cinema," the anonymous reviewer said, adding the film seems to draw from the "sloppiest current action films derived from the world of videogames."

The L'Osservatore Romano review also laments too many close-ups, and even faults the "much-publicized" return to in-camera effects, saying they are "often anonymous and lacking in dramatic value."...

...the caustic critic claims that "Darth Vader and above all the Emperor Palpatine were two of the most effective villains in [the sci-fi] genre of American cinema." But the film's new villain, the Darth Vader-inspired Kylo Ren, is slammed as "insipid;" while Supreme Leader Snoke – the Emperor Palpatine-like character, is called "the most serious defect of the film," with his representation described as "awkward and tacky."...

See:
http://variety.com/2015/film/global/vatican-newspaper-review-slams-star-wars-calling-it-confused-and-hazy-1201667084/ (http://variety.com/2015/film/global/vatican-newspaper-review-slams-star-wars-calling-it-confused-and-hazy-1201667084/)

Quote from: Mirror Image on December 23, 2015, 03:34:41 PM
I don't agree. What Lucas wanted was to let a great series sit in the dustbin of yesteryear and let it simply lie dormant until he felt the need to make another film, which would have been perhaps never.

Lucas retired from directing after Return of the Jedi and concentrated on being a father and running his companies. When Jurassic Park came out he realised the technology had matured enough for him to make the prequal trilogy. He came back as a director. Lucas says making a trilogy takes 10 years of his life (he started writing the script for The Phantom Menace in 1994 I believe and the trilogy was finished in 2005). It's like a marriage. One has to be careful stepping into such a commitment.

I didn't mean telling stories is the only thing Lucas wants to do. I mean when he makes movies, telling stories is what he wants to do rather than just pleasing fans.

Is the film problematic to you because it has a black guy and a female as heroes or would you have been more satisfied if everyone in it was more Caucasian and more male? The film would play exactly the same regardless of the gender or race of the new central characters.

Quote from: Purusha on December 23, 2015, 11:05:26 PM
The objection with Fin being black is based on the fact he was put in the movie solely for that reason and nothing else.

I was sceptical about John Boyega's Finn (not Fin) character after seeing him in trailers, but in the movie he was better than I expected.

Quote from: Purusha on December 23, 2015, 11:05:26 PMNobody had a problem with Dee Williams, so all accusations of racism are just meant to deflect criticism in the face of a blatant politically correct agenda that obviously had higher priority over artistic integrity.

Are you saying the character Finn would have had more artistic integrity had the actor been white? Or are you saying the character wasn't needed in the movie?

Quote from: Purusha on December 23, 2015, 11:05:26 PMAbrams even went on record saying Star Wars was "too white" for him.

So? He is entitled to feel that way.

Quote from: Purusha on December 23, 2015, 11:05:26 PMI'm assuming that's also why the Luke character is now a woman. And why Rey sucks as well, because she is token strong woman and was cast for political rather than artistic reasons (think of Ripley from the Alien series for an example of the contrary).

I thought Rey was a good character played very well by Daisy Ridley. My only complaint is how the script makes her suddenly become a half Jedi in 15 minutes. That was unrealistic and silly.

I would have had Luke come from his hiding place to help Han Solo after foreseeing Han's death and after being unable to save Han for some reason, save Ray and take her as his apprentice.

Quote from: James on December 23, 2015, 07:02:47 PM
You seem pretty obsessed with what others think about it, have you seen it yourself? Just do it already, seems like you're really curious about it.

No, not obsessed, just stimulating the conversation.  That's what teachers are supposed to do!   8)

We will wait a few months for the movie to grace our $2.00 theater!   0:)

Quote from: 71 dB on December 23, 2015, 11:02:33 PM
(he started writing the script for The Phantom Menace in 1994 I believe and the trilogy was finished in 2005).

He had time to improve the script. But didn't. 'nuff said.

Quote from: the guy who is forever copying and pasting other thoughts of moviesYou seem pretty obsessed with what others think about it

Quote from: Cato on December 24, 2015, 03:26:35 AM
No, not obsessed, just stimulating the conversation.

Something which copying and pasting movie reviews which are available elsewhere, e.g., does not particularly do.

There's the difference in a nutshell: Cato is interested in sparking conversation; James tells people what they should think.

I know which one I had rather have a cup of tea with  0:)

Quote from: Purusha on December 24, 2015, 04:57:23 AM
Her character is based entirely on the fact she is a woman filling a masculine role, and Abrams just feels compelled to hammer that point relentlessly. Luke from the originals was a vastly more compelling protagonist.

I completed a novel last year with a fairly brutal woman as the central character: one problem is that such a character must remain a woman, despite the male aspects, and that the combative aspects of the woman must have a logic to them, and a plausibility, which is often lacking in e.g. kung-fu movies, where the 95-pound female warrior is defying the laws of physics.

The "tom-boy" girl is a known personality: I have more than a few in my 7th and 8th grade classes!  I believe they halfway scare some of the boys, and with good reason!   ;)   Given that I have not yet seen the movie, I have no opinion: if Daisy Ridley's character tends toward the above comments, then no problem.  If the character simply is a woman "filling a masculine role," then you have a point.

Quote from: James on December 24, 2015, 05:49:07 AM
Oh I see, well teachers are never really good at that. (i.e. "stimulating conversation" ) Perhaps you should take off the "I'm a teacher" hat just once (leave it in the classroom of 5 year old kids or whatever) and go out and actually watch it. Live a little.

You have never visited my classrooms, so please refrain from telling me that I could not be good at stimulating conversations.

Allow me to repeat: I intend to see it at a fair price: $2.00. Not $12.00!  $:)

Mercy, James telling anyone else to get out and live a little!  How nice to start Christmas Eve off with such a hearty chuckle!

Quote from: Mirror Image on December 23, 2015, 03:37:47 PMI take everything that guy says with a grain of salt.

Just a grain? More like buckets of salt. I was waiting for the BS 'Mary Sue' argument to show up and wasn't surprised that it did courtesy of good old Purusha.

Rey is Luke, but since she has a vagina, she doesn't get a pass to being a zero-to-hero character? Get a life.

Quote from: 71 dB on December 23, 2015, 11:28:27 PMI thought Rey was a good character played very well by Daisy Ridley. My only complaint is how the script makes her suddenly become a half Jedi in 15 minutes. That was unrealistic and silly.

Don't forget that her foe was a lousy wannabe. And she simply responded to being pushed by pushing back, instinctively, through the Force. There's also a scene early on where you can see she's preeeetty competent with a battle-staff.

Anyway, both Finn and Rey are easily the best thing about the new episode: Boyega's chemistry with anybody else (Poe, Rey, Han) was tremendous and Ridley stole the show completely. The interrogation scene was particularly great. Can't wait to see where Ep VIII takes them.

Quote from: James on December 24, 2015, 06:26:48 AM
Oh so your a frugal teacher, how charming & witty.

Yes, I tend to be charming and witty!  0:)

Quote from: James on December 24, 2015, 06:26:48 AM
And I wouldn't have to visit, seeing you on this forum for years is indication enough. Just because your day job is teaching doesn't make you particularly interesting or stimulating.

True: some teachers are boring and dreadful!  However, being interesting and stimulating always seemed to come naturally to me!   0:)   Perhaps it is why so many of my students - even well after they have graduated - and their parents have told me how much my classes were appreciated, especially in realms beyond the subject matter.

"No brag, just fact!"   ;)

Quote from: James on December 24, 2015, 06:26:48 AM


A.And are they actually 'your' classrooms or the institution that you work for? 

B.(notice these questions will give you a further opportunity to gloat about your job, something you excel at).

C.  Your job being largely your identity and all.

DYou probably have been regurgitating the same canned curriculum for decades like a parrot, like the majority of teachers.

A. Yes, according to Common Law, I have established a "right-of-way" after a decade!   :D

B. See the winking comment above!

C. You cannot possibly know that, since you have never met me, or observed me in any way, especially since I could be inventing everything about the persona of "Cato."  ;D

D. Why is that a probability?  Any teacher who does that should be fired!  No, I stay fresh...feel free to visit my classroom here in Ohio, after you pass a security and sobriety check!   $:)   ;)

It's that time of year, when James grasps yet more wildly at more straws than usual  ;)

Quote from: Cato on December 24, 2015, 05:58:21 AM
I completed a novel last year with a fairly brutal woman as the central character: one problem is that such a character must remain a woman, despite the male aspects, and that the combative aspects of the woman must have a logic to them, and a plausibility, which is often lacking in e.g. kung-fu movies, where the 95-pound female warrior is defying the laws of physics.

It could just be that men and women are different and that this whole idea that the sexes are a "social construct" and that masculine and feminine roles are completely interchangeable is complete and total nonsense. Back in the 80s there were a lot films that placed women into what one might refer to as "heroic" roles but plausibility was always on the table when writing those characters. Take Ripley from the original Alien films. There was nothing really unbelievable about her role, and at no point did they try to pretend she was anything but a woman.

But i think this Mary Sue phenomenon we have been seeing lately goes beyond that. The problem seems to be that it is not enough to simply have a female character who is capable of fulfilling masculine roles, but that they have always have to demonstrate that to their presumably sexist male counterparts. In this film, it is not sufficient to show that Rey can take care of herself. She has to best all the men in the movie as well, in order to put their sexist selves in their place. In the scene where she is piloting the Millennium Falcon, she's the one who allows Fin to make the shot with her superior skills. Why was she such a great pilot? Because she can take care of herself and needs no help from any stinking male. Later on, she knows how to fix the ship better than Han Solo, the guy who actually owned the damn thing. Why? Because she can take care of herself and needs no help from any stinking male. And so on and so on. And at the end she is even able to beat the main villain, with zero training and after 10 minutes of having discovered the force, which was absolute ludicrous. Compare that to Luke, who needed three films to be able to even beat Vader and then gets fried by the Emperor like he was nothing, showing that he was still no superman.

Quote from: Purusha on December 24, 2015, 08:06:34 AMIn this film, it is not sufficient to show that Rey can take care of herself. She has to best all the men in the movie as well, in order to put their sexist selves in their place.

:D

Let's play, you crybaby. (SPOILERS, guys)

QuoteBecause she can take care of herself and needs no help from any stinking male. Later on, she knows how to fix the ship better than Han Solo, the guy who actually owned the damn thing. Why?

Because she knows about adjustments made when Solo was not around.

QuoteAnd at the end she is even able to beat the main villain, with zero training and after 10 minutes of having discovered the force, which was absolute ludicrous.

She doesn't beat him. She draws blood. They're separated afterwards. And as I said before, Ren is no Vader (whom Luke manages to injure in his first lightsaber duel ever).

QuoteCompare that to Luke, who needed three films to be able to even beat Vader and then gets fried by the Emperor like he was nothing, showing that he was still no superman.

Compare that to Luke in the first film, where he aces a starfighter he never flew before (in space, where he's never been before) and destroys the Death Star by relying on something he just vaguely learned about.

Plus, have you considered the fact that Rey might simply be the strongest Force-user we've been introduced to yet? But yeah, let's not get common sense into the way of silly paranoia.

Luke did have experience as a pilot (he even tells us so when they are hiring Han Solo to take him and Obi-Wan out of the planet, where he says he is not a bad pilot himself), and also explains he had experience making the type of shot needed to destroy the death star by popping desert rats (or whatever) with his speeder bike (which he also used to race through canyons). Even so, his only role at the end was to make that specific shot while the more seasoned fighter pilots acted as escort, and even then he needed the force to do it, with the help of Obi-Wan, no less, who was still training him from beyond the grave.

And Rey does more than "drawing blood". That's what Fin did (which in itself is already quite inexplicable). What she does is beat him fair and square. The move tries to tell us he was wounded, and that he himself was still in training, which is complete hogwash. With the power he demonstrates at the beginning, he should have made mince meat of anyone who had no experience fighting with a light saber, force sensitive or not, probably with with both his hands and feet tied behind his back. When Luke meets Vader the first time, the latter just toys with him, and Luke had already received considerable training at that point. There's just no comparison.

BTW:

(http://oi65.tinypic.com/24zvz8h.jpg)

You cannot hide the truth when on the internet.

Quote from: James on December 24, 2015, 10:36:33 AM
I doubt your inventing, this is a reflection of who you are and what goes on in your head, you are interested and curious about the new Star Wars movie,

A   you desperately want to see it .. 

BI hope you aren't like this in a the real world, inserting your résumé in almost every convo!

A.  :D :D :D :D :D :D  Which is why I am waiting for months to see it!  :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

B.   ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D Almost everything here at GMG involves my resume' !!!  :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:  Demonstrably false! 

Merry Christmas and thanks for the humorous exaggerations!   0:) 0:) 0:)

Quote from: Purusha on December 24, 2015, 10:05:53 AMBTW:

(http://oi65.tinypic.com/24zvz8h.jpg)

You cannot hide the truth when on the internet.

I love how you, our belated prophet of the end of art & culture & society, are invested in a space romp about droids in the shape of a soccer ball and sabers made of light.

But hey, whatever pushes your troll buttons, darling.

How James must be intimidated by your résumé, Cato.  One can almost feel sorry for the chap.

Intimidated by a teacher? Never.

Quote from: karlhenning on December 24, 2015, 11:26:39 AM
How James must be intimidated by your résumé, Cato.  One can almost feel sorry for the chap.

"Beyond satire!"  ;)

Okay, who else has actually seen this? :)

Quote from: Rinaldo on December 24, 2015, 11:12:43 AM
I love how you, our belated prophet of the end of art & culture & society, are invested in a space romp about droids in the shape of a soccer ball and sabers made of light.

But hey, whatever pushes your troll buttons, darling.

Like i explained previously, the original Star Wars films were by themselves a symptom of the decline of art, culture and society. That today's filmmakers cannot even replicate such simple writing and characterization as the originals shows how far we have gone as a civilization. That audiences are completely oblivious to the low grade crap they are being fed is even worst. My jimmies cannot help but be rustled.

This thread has even more BS than the movies, but in a less believable way.

Quote from: Rinaldo on December 24, 2015, 06:34:33 AM
Don't forget that her foe was a lousy wannabe. And she simply responded to being pushed by pushing back, instinctively, through the Force. There's also a scene early on where you can see she's preeeetty competent with a battle-staff.

Lousy maybe, but not without skills. Trained by Snoke he is able to "freeze time of objects" using the Force. Had Rey been trained by someone (e.g. Luke) at least one day the fight would have been much more realistic to my eyes.

Quote from: Purusha on December 25, 2015, 12:39:28 AM
Really? What happened to judging a person by the content of their character, as opposed to the color of their skin? Racism is ok if it is whites who are at the receiving end?

What the hell are you talking about?

Lighten up guys. This isn't about the end of the world as we know it, or about the end of culture. It's modern folklore, on the level of the brothers Grimm. If you are entertained, fine. If you aren't; spend your time on something you find more profitable.

Quote from: Purusha on December 25, 2015, 12:01:43 AM
Like i explained previously, the original Star Wars films were by themselves a symptom of the decline of art, culture and society. That today's filmmakers cannot even replicate such simple writing and characterization as the originals shows how far we have gone as a civilization. That audiences are completely oblivious to the low grade crap they are being fed is even worst. My jimmies cannot help but be rustled.

Cannot replicate? Do they even try? Their job is to make money, not art. Maybe you haven't realised what kind of role commercial movies have in our society? You need to look elsewhere for art, films by Michael Haneke etc. Certain TV shows may contain what you are after.

Do you think everyone listened to J. S. Bach in 1725? No. It was music for the most cultured, priviledged and educated people and even most of them preferred composers who made less complex music such as Telemann. It's unrealistic and romantic to think people of the past where cultured. Wrong! They where working their asses of for some food and trying to stay alive.

Star Wars (the first six movies) are VERY artistic. They are also entertaining. They are extraordinary movies thanks to the creative mind of George Lucas. A lot of people don't seem to understand Lucas' vision, but isn't that typical to art?

How much can you blame the audience? Nobody educates them, not even encourage them to educate themselves. Being a good consumer and buying the new iPhone is more important.

Quote from: 71 dB on December 25, 2015, 02:11:20 AM
Star Wars (the first six movies) are VERY artistic. They are also entertaining. They are extraordinary movies thanks to the creative mind of George Lucas.

You have several good points, but here you only score one out of three - at least if you consider the 6 first movies as one complete work.

Quote from: Purusha on December 25, 2015, 02:28:05 AM
I'm talking about race not mattering and being all about individual qualities... except when it comes to white people. If Abrams had said that a given franchise was "too black" we would never have heard the end of it. Progressives are just as racist as the KKK, the only difference is that their racism is based on Marxist precepts rather than aristocratic, hierarchical ones. White people had a right to oppress black people because they were seen as "superior". Now it is ok to hate white people because of their "privilege", or whatever. The racism is still the same, it is just based on a different rationale. Some people just can't get out their heads that you cant despise a collective of individuals based on some relative factor such as race, and those tendencies are allowed depending on the political climate of a given society. Since progressive ideas are currently the mainstream, it is now "ok" to be racist against white people, or be sexist against men. When society was very right-wing, it was the other way around.

I don't think Abrams wanting black people in Star Wars is hating white people. You are taking the whole issue so seriously. White man directs a movie with mostly white cast and you call it hating white people? Seriously? What the hell should they do to make you happy? Have a Japanese cast?

KKK, Marx, progressives, etc. What do these have to do with a Disney movie? Whose political climate? The movie is watched all over the world. My political climate (Finland) is currently more right wing than ever.

Quote from: Purusha on December 25, 2015, 02:28:05 AMProgressives are just as racist as the KKK, the only difference is that their racism is based on Marxist precepts rather than aristocratic, hierarchical ones.

(https://media4.giphy.com/media/d2ZbxMT9PxtWozTy/200.gif)

Quote from: The new erato on December 25, 2015, 02:03:09 AM
Lighten up guys. This isn't about the end of the world as we know it, or about the end of culture. It's modern folklore, on the level of the brothers Grimm. If you are entertained, fine. If you aren't; spend your time on something you find more profitable.

+1

I attribute so much of the derailment of this thread to Purusha who really should just put a sock in it at this juncture.

Eloquently put!

Quote from: Rinaldo on December 25, 2015, 06:52:21 AM
(https://media4.giphy.com/media/d2ZbxMT9PxtWozTy/200.gif)

Le GIF juste.

And may I point out that the movie industry has produced hundreds of schlocky movies over the years for every "great" artistic film:  that some "art" films in time are revealed as not very well made schlock:  that some "schlocky" films are seen in later years to be highly crafted movies people still want to see.

Quote from: Jeffrey Smith on December 25, 2015, 07:33:26 AM
Le GIF juste.

And may I point out that the movie industry has produced hundreds of schlocky movies over the years for every "great" artistic film:  that some "art" films in time are revealed as not very well made schlock:  that some "schlocky" films are seen in later years to be highly crafted movies people still want to see.

Ho come on, not this silly argument again.

Name one single modern director that even remotely compares to the best of former times. This is like with modern classical music. People will bring this or that contemporary composer out of the woodwork, but it never works. Nobody can name a single musician that is on par with a Bach, or a Beethoven, simply because no such musician exists. 

But that's besides the point here, because this isn't about great art versus schlocky entertainment. It is about the decline of the schlocky entertainment in question. One would think it wouldn't be possible to go lower than something like Star Wars, but apparently it is in fact possible. Just look at the state Hollywood is in. Nothing but remakes of older schlock films, which are now hailed as classics, and each of those films is praised for a span and forgotten within the year. Why? Because those films stink, as simple as that. Productions value may be through the roof but those movies fail where it counts.

Quote from: Purusha on December 25, 2015, 10:38:33 AM
Ho come on, not this silly argument again.

Name one single modern director that even remotely compares to the best of former times. This is like with modern classical music. People will bring this or that contemporary composer out of the woodwork, but it never works. Nobody can name a single musician that is on par with a Bach, or a Beethoven, simply because no such musician exists. 

But that's besides the point here, because this isn't about great art versus schlocky entertainment. It is about the decline of the schlocky entertainment in question. One would think it wouldn't be possible to go lower than something like Star Wars, but apparently it is in fact possible. Just look at the state Hollywood is in. Nothing but remakes of older schlock films, which are now hailed as classics, and each of those films is praised for a span and forgotten within the year. Why? Because those films stink, as simple as that. Productions value may be through the roof but those movies fail where it counts.

Having seen a Jerry Lewis movie or two in my time,  yes it is possible to go really lower, and they were doing it in the 1960s.  I presume you remain in blissful ignorance of them, or you would not have made the remark I bolded.

The rest of your post merely gives evidence that you are prone to mistake your subjective opinions for objective facts....and that you seriously overrate the movies of the past ( and underrate the original Stars Wars).

Quote from: Purusha on December 25, 2015, 02:28:05 AM
Progressives are just as racist as the KKK, the only difference is that their racism is based on Marxist precepts rather than aristocratic, hierarchical ones.

Wow. I mean wow. Your mind is a magical place. The kkk were lynching and terrorizing people - how are these things in any way similar? We're talking about one casting choice, who all reports suggest did a good job.

...which btw is less "black" presence (if one feels for some reason they have to be concerned about such utterly unimportant things) than the prequels, which as a kiwi I know had at least three Maori actors, including Temuera Morrison as Django Fett.

The only racism appears to be your defensiveness about seeing a black face in what you percieve to be an exclusively white franchise.


also: my feeling is that the average modern film is far superior to the average film of the past.

...and the quality of the average composition of recent years is superior to the average composition of the Baroque or Classical eras. Your argument only sounds superficially attractive when you cherry-pick just a few top names - look at the whole field.

Different things flourish in different times and things flourish differently in different times. Computer music can't flourish before computers are invented. Piano music can't flourish before piano is invented. Dummy popcorn entertaiment has been flourishing recently. Who is to tell what are the correct ways to flourish? Purusha is the God who tells us apparently. Thank God I'm an atheist.  0:)

(In Yoda voice) "I see a locked thread ahead. For that, I am certain."

(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-KqpGUzIsAHg/UEQF6pGD_KI/AAAAAAAABKI/2hmmrS6Qo4E/s1600/yoda.jpg)

Quote from: Purusha on December 25, 2015, 10:38:33 AM
Name one single modern director that even remotely compares to the best of former times.

Steven Spielberg

Quote from: Purusha on December 25, 2015, 10:38:33 AMThis is like with modern classical music. People will bring this or that contemporary composer out of the woodwork, but it never works. Nobody can name a single musician that is on par with a Bach, or a Beethoven, simply because no such musician exists.

On par in what way? You can't expect anyone compose tons of baroque cantatas in the 21st century. How to compare Autechre to Beethoven? It makes no sense. I don't compare, I enjoy both and much more music from different times periods.

Quote from: Purusha on December 25, 2015, 10:38:33 AMOne would think it wouldn't be possible to go lower than something like Star Wars, but apparently it is in fact possible.

Be my guest and make a movie better than Star Wars. Should not be difficult according to you, but believe me you can't because you are just you, not George Lucas. After you have created more iconic things than George Lucas I believe you.  :laugh:

Quote from: Mirror Image on December 25, 2015, 03:33:17 PM
(In Yoda voice) "I see a locked thread ahead. For that, I am certain."

(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-KqpGUzIsAHg/UEQF6pGD_KI/AAAAAAAABKI/2hmmrS6Qo4E/s1600/yoda.jpg)

I think the correct phrase is"for that I certain am"

Quote from: The new erato on December 26, 2015, 12:41:23 AM
I think the correct phrase is"for that I certain am"

"For that certain I am!"

From Forbes:

QuoteBarring an unexpected chopping of the legs after Christmas, Star Wars: The Force Awakens is all but destined to top Avatar to become the biggest-grossing movie in the U.S. of all time. Moreover, it may well make so much money in America that it'll end up one of the top 10 biggest grossers adjusted for inflation. And as we head into its second weekend, we should note that The Force Awakens has earned a whopping $143 million in its first four weekdays of play, a number that would be among the bigger opening weekends of all time and would be almost double the previous December opening weekend record to boot.

That Walt Disney was able to get both a summer blockbuster-level opening weekend and James Cameron-style December legs is nothing short of remarkable and utterly unprecedented. I don't think even Disney thought they'd be able to get both when they rescheduled the film from its original May 2015 slot back in November 2013.

I will once again state that if you are new to Star Wars or just came back after a long sabbatical, I highly recommend you check out the six seasons of Star Wars: The Clone Wars and the two seasons (and counting) of Disney XD's excellent Star Wars: Rebels show.

See:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/scottmendelson/2015/12/25/box-office-star-wars-the-force-awakens-earns-27m-thursday-for-391m-1st-week-tops-810m-global/ (http://www.forbes.com/sites/scottmendelson/2015/12/25/box-office-star-wars-the-force-awakens-earns-27m-thursday-for-391m-1st-week-tops-810m-global/)

Quote from: Jeffrey Smith on December 25, 2015, 10:52:27 AM
Having seen a Jerry Lewis movie or two in my time, yes it is possible to go really lower, and they were doing it in the 1960s.

I had forgotten those, nor am I truly pleased to be reminded.  But it is not your fault, dear fellow, the fact was called for in the present context.

Quote from: The new erato on December 26, 2015, 12:41:23 AM
I think the correct phrase is"for that I certain am"

Have you ever listened to the way Yoda constructs sentences? Instead of saying "You must try," he will say "Try, you must."

Quote from: karlhenning on December 26, 2015, 05:12:28 AM
I had forgotten those ( Jerry Lewis movies), nor am I truly pleased to be reminded.  But it is not your fault, dear fellow, the fact was called for in the present context.

One was so bad it has stayed in the vault: The Day the Clown Cried

QuoteInterestingly, Lewis has screened the film for a very select few Hollywood insiders over the years. Harry Shearer (of The Simpsons) is one of the rare people to have actually seen The Day the Clown Cried. In Shearer's words:

"This was the perfect object. This movie is so drastically wrong, its pathos, its comedy, are so wildly displaced, that you could not, in your fantasy of what it might be like, improve on what it is. 'Oh my God!' That's all you can say."

Shearer told Lewis after the screening that the film was "terrible." Lewis, says Shearer, was furious.

See:

http://mentalfloss.com/article/28683/jerry-lewis-film-nobody-has-ever-seen (http://mentalfloss.com/article/28683/jerry-lewis-film-nobody-has-ever-seen)

Quote from: Purusha on December 26, 2015, 06:41:26 AM
Yes, at a time when lynching was common place (and had nothing to do with race specifically. White "criminals" were routinely lynched as well). If it still was you'd see lynching of people who go against progressive dogma. As it is the lynching only occurs at a social level, which is already bad enough, since much of the time it is not only a matter of becoming ostracized but you are also at risk of losing your job and having your life destroyed. But fear not, we are soon moving towards giving jail sentences to thought criminals. SJWs ARE the progressive counterpart to the KKK. Literally. No hyperbole or exaggeration involved.

Besides, does an ideology need to invariably lead to violence before it can be denounced for being evil and wrong? Is racism against blacks ok if no lynching is involved? Was KKK evil solely because it led to lynching and violence, or was it evil in and of itself?

What does ANY OF THIS have to with Star Wars?!?!? Goodness gracious me. Nobody cares what you think, especially whenever it's completely unrelated to the topic at hand, which is STAR WARS.

Moderators do something! There is no call for this kind of thread derailment.

Quote from: Purusha on December 26, 2015, 06:51:46 AM
I don't know. Ask J. J. Abrams. He's the one who made a big stink about Star Wars being "too white".

But you know good and well that you're purposely setting up your own platform so you can spew your twisted opinions from your soapbox. Get off your high horse!

Goodness, folks, all this agita - and on the day after Christmas, too. I'm going to let things cool down a bit, and in the meantime, a reminder: this is a classical music board.

To those of you who are consistently posting about subjects other than classical music - and you know who you are - go and listen to some. It makes you a better person.

--Bruce