How did this all happen?
Can you guess?
I'll tell soon.
I just can't believe it. But, then again, I'm pretty sure you know it's not Mozart or Verdi. I just can't stand the "Classical singing style"- never could take the warbling. I thought every singer should sound like Linda Ronstadt; I never wanted to "get" opera singing. Still couldn't care less. I don't know how you all tolerate it. Sometimes I have to assume it's because of the stereotype? mm mm mm (I dunno)
Phyllis Bryn-Julson seems to be the only singer I can handle (actually, all the over-the-top singers, like DeGaetani and Berberian, have an increbebebley smooth voice to me)
So, I haven't gotten it yet...
Trust me, there won't be too many more, if any,... pretty sure... pretty sure
Well congratulations!
It's customary to buy a round at the local for the forum members to celebrate. Got a few quid?
"I thought every singer should sound like Linda Ronstadt..." - we know what you're thinking ;)
As far as the 'classical style' - try the Queen of Night aria from The Magic Flute - that's the sort of fantasy piece that gets away from the stereotypical fat prima donna warbling on center-stage.
Quote from: snyprrr on April 20, 2016, 07:32:36 AM
I just can't believe it. But, then again, I'm pretty sure you know it's not Mozart or Verdi. I just can't stand the "Classical singing style"- never could take the warbling. I don't know how you all tolerate it.
For me it's Verdi's music I can't tolerate (how he is considered one of the greatest opera composers is beyond me). Also, among all of Mozart's music it's the operas I really struggle with for some reason. Too "simple and entertaining" I guess, Lady Gaga -music of the 18th century?
Among opera composers my favorites are Handel, Rameau and Puccini. Those composers rule and I don't care what others think. ;D
I love how you make us google to find out which opera recording you got... 8)
This? ::)
[asin]B00000DNTI[/asin]
Even if it isn't - congratulations! :) Opera is a very amazing musical genre. And don't worry about not "getting" Mozart's operas... it will probably come eventually...He actually wrote some of the best operas in musical history. 8)
Q
Is there a recording of the Broadway production of La Boheme with Linda Ronstadt and the country singer Morris (forgot his first name)? That might be up your alley.
For me, opera is almost always at the bottom for my preferred Classical listening - there are some exceptions, and Handel's better ones are pretty good just because of the music - he's one of the top three of the Baroque, a true genius.
I like Smetana's The Bartered Bride. I kneel before Beethoven, but aside from the overture, I don't listen to Fidelio. I don't care much for the stories in Mozart's operas, but when he gets going on a great tune, he's, well, Mozart!
Wagner - the instrumental portions, the rest I leave behind.
No Verdi - his music doesn't grab me.
Lulu can be fun once in a while. Some parts of Shostakovich's operas work well.
Gluck is someone who I need to sit down some week and give a long listen to and see if I can get into his work.
So for me it is very hit-and-miss. I appreciate the hard work that singers go through to perform - both vocally and acting-wise.
Quote from: snyprrr on April 20, 2016, 07:32:36 AM
Trust me, there won't be too many more, if any,... pretty sure... pretty sure
Somehow La Scala and the Met will survive without your patronage.
Quote from: snyprrr on April 20, 2016, 07:32:36 AM
Can you guess?
Birtwistle's
Punch and Judy?
If so, perhaps not the most common entry point into opera as an art form but still a fine choice.
Quote from: Que on April 20, 2016, 08:09:24 AM
I love how you make us google to find out which opera recording you got... 8)
This? ::)
[asin]B00000DNTI[/asin]
Even if it isn't - congratulations! :) Opera is a very amazing musical genre. And don't worry about not "getting" Mozart's operas... it will probably come eventually...He actually wrote some of the best operas in musical history. 8)
Q
Hmmm, can our
snypppps now be an
Erwartung fan?
How about
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51gqk8KUw4L.jpg)
Quote from: Draško on April 20, 2016, 08:48:17 AM
Birtwistle's Punch and Judy?
If so, perhaps not the most common entry point into opera as an art form but still a fine choice.
Quote from: Que on April 20, 2016, 08:09:24 AM
I love how you make us google to find out which opera recording you got... 8)
This? ::)
[asin]B00000DNTI[/asin]
Even if it isn't - congratulations! :) Opera is a very amazing musical genre. And don't worry about not "getting" Mozart's operas... it will probably come eventually...He actually wrote some of the best operas in musical history. 8)
Q
Quote from: karlhenning on April 20, 2016, 10:32:07 AM
Hmmm, can our snypppps now be an Erwartung fan?
Quote from: Jeffrey Smith on April 20, 2016, 11:11:15 AM
How about
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51gqk8KUw4L.jpg)
Quote from: Jeffrey Smith on April 20, 2016, 11:11:15 AM
How about
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51gqk8KUw4L.jpg)
Wow, I didn't think I'd get such great responses from everyone (including all the other Posts). So, yes, it is very interesting to me how you all picked things like 'Erwartung', 'Punch and Judy' and 'Il Prigioniero'. In a way, you will all have a V8 moment when I tell you in the next Post.
If Diamanda Galas did 'Erwartung',... hmmm?
I could see getting the Salonen...
So, interesting, but no, I went full-bore, considered to be THE most complex Opera of all time. It's only because I am sure the experience will be different. Like I said, I just ordered it today. OK, I'll through the ball back into your court. I picked...
(drumroll)
'Die Soldaten' (Teldec; Kontarsky)
OK, it was the CHEAPEST thing I was looking at ($12), and, surely, has the most bang-for-buck-quotient than anything else I was considering. And, surely, as dense as I'm sure this set is, there truly couldn't have been anything as daunting as this. Had the EMI 'Prometeo' been up for $20 I might have snapped that up, but, I know the Zimmermann will have the higher sonic profile.
I realize that the Gielen has apparently the better singer, but, I can't argue with Teldec sound. (makes me wonder about the Sony 'Requiem...')
So, there it is, my first knowingly conscious Opera Purchase. I'm actually not even treating it as an "opera purchase"- it really is still an "avant purchase". Still, we'll see how the lead singer fares, though I don't hold any candles. I'm interested in Bryn-Julson in the 'Requiem...'.
Dude! Check out Linda in:
[asin]B000002GXE[/asin]
I'm admittedly not a big fan of the genre, but there's a few notable exceptions for me: Bartok's Bluebeard's Castle (!!!), Janacek's Kata Kabanova, Martinu's Julietta (really wish a more modern recording was available), and Ravel's L'enfant et les sortileges.
Quote from: springrite on April 20, 2016, 08:16:02 AM
Is there a recording of the Broadway production of La Boheme with Linda Ronstadt and the country singer Morris (forgot his first name)? That might be up your alley.
Now I remember, it was Gary Morris.
You should like Die Soldaten, though it really works best LIVE. Even on DVD, it does not capture the effect of FOUR simultaneous stages (sections) at the same time.
Quote from: snyprrr on April 20, 2016, 04:27:36 PM
'Die Soldaten' (Teldec; Kontarsky)
Quote from: springrite on April 20, 2016, 06:42:59 PM
You should like Die Soldaten, though it really works best LIVE. Even on DVD, it does not capture the effect of FOUR simultaneous stages (sections) at the same time.
If you like Zimmermann, you will probably like that Teldec recording - it is quite good. (Can't say I listen to it every day, but it's excellent.) And for a first-ever opera purchase, you have my admiration: that is damn adventurous.
As Paul says, it does work best live (frankly, as most operas do), so you may have to use your imagination for some of Zimmermann's spatial effects. Still, a powerful experience.
--Bruce
It's amazing, isn't it, we can "buy an opera" in a little box with round disks inside?
Rossini, et al, could have never conceived of such a thing, let alone Handel or Gluck!
Quote from: zamyrabyrd on April 20, 2016, 10:40:22 PM
It's amazing, isn't it, we can "buy an opera" in a little box with round disks inside?
Rossini, et al, could have never conceived of such a thing, let alone Handel or Gluck!
What a wonderful world!
Quote from: karlhenning on April 21, 2016, 04:26:22 AM
What a wonderful world!
feel the bernout! LOL
Quote from: Brewski on April 20, 2016, 06:57:40 PM
If you like Zimmermann, you will probably like that Teldec recording - it is quite good. (Can't say I listen to it every day, but it's excellent.) And for a first-ever opera purchase, you have my admiration: that is damn adventurous.
As Paul says, it does work best live (frankly, as most operas do), so you may have to use your imagination for some of Zimmermann's spatial effects. Still, a powerful experience.
--Bruce
I'm tempted to take a Valium and just lie there on the bed whilst listening. Or, would that be cheating? (does Valium make anything "cool"???)
oy- attempts at humor too early in the morning..... need more coffee...
btw- Bruce, do you know Brian at Mode? wtf happened to their Xenakis Series????????
I really didn't think I was going to get such good responses- all the "non-Opera" people are giving me their exceptions, so I'll keep this Thread in mind if I ever get the bug...
thanks all
Quote from: snyprrr on April 21, 2016, 07:13:07 AM
I'm tempted to take a Valium and just lie there on the bed whilst listening. Or, would that be cheating? (does Valium make anything "cool"???)
No，it only makes the opera listener cool. ;)
For your consideration: Saariaho!
https://www.youtube.com/v/gHuO2JjT7UY&list=PLzjYcWlnOdAPP6A-b4lfQoMY12c9OB8uw&index=5
Quote from: springrite on April 20, 2016, 06:42:59 PM
...though it really works best LIVE...
That's true of most operas. :)
Quote from: Cato on April 21, 2016, 08:03:42 AM
For your consideration: Saariaho!
https://www.youtube.com/v/gHuO2JjT7UY&list=PLzjYcWlnOdAPP6A-b4lfQoMY12c9OB8uw&index=5
right there my problem in a nutshell:
1) Starts off great... mise en scene and all... color... music... movement...
2) FIRST PROB: Opera Singers aren't ususally "hot" to look at, from a movie goers perspective- he should've looked like a HERO, but looked like a Fat Finn. She was better...
3) 2nd PROB- he opened his mouth and "typical opera tones" came out.
UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES should Opera Singing be done without single, diatonic intervals and "normal" sounding singing. "Opera Singing" is A Lie Straight From the Pits of the Opera- it's not how people sing.... really.... is it?
So, ultimately, I get pissed because such good music falls under the weight of "opera tradition", or something.
That clip was too much for me, must lay down for a .... while...
'Luonnatar' with Bryn-Julson is about the most I can stand.lip
Quote from: snyprrr on April 22, 2016, 09:42:12 AM
right there my problem in a nutshell:
1) Starts off great... mise en scene and all... color... music... movement...
2) FIRST PROB: Opera Singers aren't ususally "hot" to look at, from a movie goers perspective- he should've looked like a HERO, but looked like a Fat Finn. She was better...
3) 2nd PROB- he opened his mouth and "typical opera tones" came out.
UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES should Opera Singing be done without single, diatonic intervals and "normal" sounding singing. "Opera Singing" is A Lie Straight From the Pits of the Opera- it's not how people sing.... really.... is it?
So, ultimately, I get pissed because such good music falls under the weight of "opera tradition", or something.
That clip was too much for me, must lay down for a .... while...
'Luonnatar' with Bryn-Julson is about the most I can stand.lip
Note to self:
Under no circumstances give snyprrr any Callas recording.
I was looking into other singing I might ... uh.... "enjoy"
Would I like 'Le Grand Macabre'? The music seems interesting.
Shouuuuld I try the Bryn-Julson 'Erwartung'?
I don't see me getting into Ferneyhough's 'Shadowtome'.
Sessions's 'Idyll of Theocratus'????????? hear that one really hairy
Quote from: snyprrr on April 23, 2016, 06:48:08 AM
I was looking into other singing I might ... uh.... "enjoy"
Would I like 'Le Grand Macabre'? The music seems interesting.
Shouuuuld I try the Bryn-Julson 'Erwartung'?
I don't see me getting into Ferneyhough's 'Shadowtome'.
Sessions's 'Idyll of Theocratus'????????? hear that one really hairy
Dude! Visit YouTube and get a sampling!
e.g.
https://www.youtube.com/v/6KbMnO-2eFI
Quote from: Cato on April 23, 2016, 07:04:59 AM
Dude! Visit YouTube and get a sampling!
e.g.
https://www.youtube.com/v/6KbMnO-2eFI
yea, love the car horns... yea, I'd probably get this, though, it's definitely for "Monty Python" listening... whatever meaning is given in bawdiness to the point of entertainment... whatever that means, lol... Zimmermann and Ligeti... what could possibly be after that? (still thinking 'Erwartung'...)... maybe will haaaave to go with the Babbitt pieces...
snyprrr, here's an example of the kind of vocals that I do like (I hope you can view this as many people in other countries have trouble viewing these types of YT videos):
Szymanowski's Litany for the Virgin Mary
https://www.youtube.com/v/eDvA-pTlSmc
https://www.youtube.com/v/d6WZ0g4VU2U
Quote from: Mirror Image on April 25, 2016, 06:53:58 AM
snyprrr, here's an example of the kind of vocals that I do like (I hope you can view this as many people in other countries have trouble viewing these types of YT videos):
Szymanowski's Litany for the Virgin Mary
https://www.youtube.com/v/eDvA-pTlSmc
https://www.youtube.com/v/d6WZ0g4VU2U
Right. Same with the Gorecki. Stefania Wotocotowoisz wot wot is my favorite singer like that. I think I have the 'Song of the Night'...
AND- I DIDN'T MEAN LINDA RONSTADT LITERALLY (not you MI)!!
I like DeGaetani's voice for Crumb, or anything- those Modern Singers that had that really flat, laser beam, no vibrato, husky, easy sound. The other one...???
Dawn Upshaw in the Schoenberg SQ No.2. Perfect
Penderecki doesn't count...
Barainsky, Tony Arnold...
I have some other singing on various random recitals, but there's no "Classical Music" I listen to for the voice. I had my Chant Phase. Madrigal non-Phase, Troubadour Phase. Choral non-Phase. But I balked at "Songs", or "LayderLeeder" or any post-Renaissance singing, until you get to, eh, the 1920s? Ute Lemper.lol
Helen Merrill
smoky singers
singers of the 70s
SO, A MUSICAL is when they sing "normal", and an OPERA is when they sing "classical:????????????????????
We're still waiting on that drink, mate!
$:)
Quote from: Que on April 20, 2016, 08:09:24 AM
I love how you make us google to find out which opera recording you got... 8)
This? ::)
[asin]B00000DNTI[/asin]
Even if it isn't - congratulations! :) Opera is a very amazing musical genre. And don't worry about not "getting" Mozart's operas... it will probably come eventually...He actually wrote some of the best operas in musical history. 8)
Q
I'm almost through Act1 of 'Die Soldaten'. The singing's OK... but it's the music and orchestration that are really outstanding to me, and holding it all together. The orchestra is like one giant nightmare factory that is micro/macro-utilized- I've never heard such "from solo to tutti" back and forth with diamond edged brightness and glitter- including harpsichord and electric guitar so far.
The 'Prelude' is everything one could want in 5 minutes- awesomely spectacular.
SO YEA- it's hard for me to count this an an "Opera Purchase", ha!!!
Quote from: Scion7 on April 25, 2016, 09:58:30 PM
We're still waiting on that drink, mate!
$:)
wait... was I buying a round?...
I was just having too much time and forgot.
DRINKS ON THE HOUSE!!
QUE- that's you!!!!!
Quote from: Mirror Image on April 20, 2016, 05:25:43 PM
I'm admittedly not a big fan of the genre, but there's a few notable exceptions for me: Bartok's Bluebeard's Castle (!!!), Janacek's Kata Kabanova, Martinu's Julietta (really wish a more modern recording was available), and Ravel's L'enfant et les sortileges.
Getting to the end of CD1 on the Teldec set of 'Die Soldaten' (Act2,...). Well, it's overwhelmingly impressive, and there are actually moments where one can hear "everything going on at once" from different directions (though not manipulated, panning=wise). The organ entry was pretty pretty cool. The, I assume, rape scene- totally noted!!
The tuttis are tremendous. Oh, and the jazz section, lol, out of nowhere! Sounds a little like Mingus's 'Epitaph'?
BAZ's flute writing is of particular mention, out of this world- I'd say a notch up from Messiaen's bird-song flutes. BAZ is so very intricate, and with the eriting, or conducting, once can practically see the notes on the page as they're played- BAZ is literally the most "direct" Composer that way, much like Xenakis (BAZ seems a little more "international"m so to speak, ha, )-P
Anyhow, yea, it's the wildest cool thing fer shur- and more "meaningingful" perhaps than Ligeti? comedy vs tragedy?
Schnittke wishes he sounded like BAZ!!
Continuing on with 'Die, Soldaten'. Simply, this is superlative music- maybe Schnittke+Ferneyhough???......absolute technicality at the service of a totally personal/human agenda.
The lines are so etched, so delineated , that one hears everything- even though, behind it all is a dark black, silent screen of silence that crops up as an unseen partner when the music gets bare.
And, the orchestration is a hallucination's wet dream of four orchestras going at once, and being Dutilleaux on acid- guitar, harpsichord, all keyboard percussion, all other percussion, gongs, bells, serial string bursts, Xenakian and Beyond belief fast trumpets... oh, just so much great, dense meat... overwhelming certainly.
And this is 1959-60??
Quote from: snyprrr on April 24, 2016, 08:39:03 AM
yea, love the car horns... yea, I'd probably get this, though, it's definitely for "Monty Python" listening... whatever meaning is given in bawdiness to the point of entertainment... whatever that means, lol... Zimmermann and Ligeti... what could possibly be after that? (still thinking 'Erwartung'...)... maybe will haaaave to go with the Babbitt pieces...
Snyprrr, get Grande Macabre. If nothing else, its attitude about politics is right up your alley.
Quote from: Jeffrey Smith on April 26, 2016, 05:36:41 PM
Snyprrr, get Grande Macabre. If nothing else, its attitude about politics is right up your alley.
I'd say that what is
really needed here is something like
Cavalleria Rusticana. Then our friend can cliemb up the ladder into loftier territory... :D
Quote from: ritter on April 27, 2016, 06:05:27 AM
I'd say that what is really needed here is something like Cavalleria Rusticana. Then our friend can cliemb up the ladder into loftier territory... :D
Quote from: Jeffrey Smith on April 26, 2016, 05:36:41 PM
Snyprrr, get Grande Macabre. If nothing else, its attitude about politics is right up your alley.
Yea, I don't know how this is going to work. I just made it through my first Opera without reading the synopsis, or following German, and what I got out of 'Die Soldaten' is that there's a girl named Marie, and she gets raped, and I'm guessing it's by a bunch of soldiers. I don't know if I needed to know much more... if 'CavRust' is about the finer nuances concerning Italian Politics, I'm not sure my method of listening would pick it up. FRANKLY, LIBRETTO PRINT WEARS ME OUT!!!!!
Quote from: snyprrr on April 27, 2016, 08:25:16 AM
Yea, I don't know how this is going to work. I just made it through my first Opera without reading the synopsis, or following German, and what I got out of 'Die Soldaten' is that there's a girl named Marie, and she gets raped, and I'm guessing it's by a bunch of soldiers. I don't know if I needed to know much more... if 'CavRust' is about the finer nuances concerning Italian Politics, I'm not sure my method of listening would pick it up. FRANKLY, LIBRETTO PRINT WEARS ME OUT!!!!!
There's not much literary quality in the
Cav libretto (or in the music, for that matter), just a story of unfaithfulness and revenge. But it's
great fun to listen to the singers scream their lungs out ;)
Quote from: Cato on April 20, 2016, 04:57:18 PM
Dude! Check out Linda in:
[asin]B000002GXE[/asin]
Today's listening started on Track6 of CD2 of the Teldec 'Soldaten'. Act3 seemed to have the most longeurs, and I found myself somewhat irritated, and wondering if I would make it passed this "passage work"- but, I decided it was my problem and not BAZ's. So then we get to Act4, which has four Tracks that are all @4mins., so I knew I'd get to the end before the trip was through (always car listening).
I CAM.
I had my Zimmergasm at the beginning of... Track9?... where all the different gongs and cymbals clash away. Wonderful! And thn the man man laments "Marie"... and there is also a great great final tutti to take the breath away...
AND THEN!!!The last Track introduces, I believe, a tape, and the next few minutes are the most harrowing and horrifying one could imagine, ending with the sound of jack stepping, and then a final spew of ultimate horror at the very very end, just absolutely the most horrifying ending of anything ever ever.
I mean... WOW!!
Absolutely the Best Thing Ever?
Soldaten, what's it about?
Quote from: Mandryka on April 27, 2016, 10:41:51 AM
Soldaten, what's it about?
Dixit Wikipedia
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Die_Soldaten
Going by the description, it may really be the sort of work which has to be seen, not just heard.
Quote from: snyprrr on April 25, 2016, 09:44:07 PM
Right. Same with the Gorecki. Stefania Wotocotowoisz wot wot is my favorite singer like that. I think I have the 'Song of the Night'...
Umm...this is better than anything Gorecki composed IMHO.
Quote from: Mandryka on April 27, 2016, 10:41:51 AM
Soldaten, what's it about?
I think soldiers rape a girl? The horrors of war? Now that I've heard it, I dread going back to reeeeead, lol!! Anyway, it's well nigh one of the most cumulatively awesome things I've ever heard- like Ive's 'Universe' Symphony for Opera??
Just ordered the 'Requiem for A YoungPpoet'... the new SACD 5:1... guess I'll have to go to the Bose store to hear this one proper, hah, that should scare em...
For 2nd listen, am cutting up 'Die Soldaten', listening to individual Tracks So much powerful music. Quite literally the most bang for the buck in quite a while.
The fact that the instrumentation is so all encompassing, along with the poly-styles-at-once makes this some of the densed listening.
OK, I'll contain myself...
Die Soldaten will be staged here in a few months. I've never heard anything by Zimmermann, but did see that this opera has won high praise. So, should I go?