Here's a fun thread and will give us a chance to see what we're all interested in at the moment.
Here's my current roster of composers I'm exploring at the moment: Beethoven (!!!), Dvořák, Rubbra, Berlioz, Grieg, Shostakovich, Brahms, and Schumann. Several of these composers I haven't spent enough time with and some of them I know already pretty well but it's been ages since I've really sat down and listened to their music.
Im planning to do surveys of the Symphonies and Chamber Music of Mahler, Prokofiev, Shostakovich, Sibelius, Tchaikovsky and Vaughan Williams.
I want to do some comparative listening as I have a few different versions of their key works so it should be a fun exercise.
Normally I do binges of one Composer but this time to keep it going I will listen to works from all 6 Composers depending on mood.
I had thought of including Bruckner and Stravinsky as well so may expand the project to include them at a later stage.
Antonio Locatelli, 1695-1764. Until relatively recently his music was very sparse in my collection but I have bought a number of CDs and I am quite enjoying the odyssey.
Exploring is fun.
I remember when I was exploring Prokofiev. Each new piece I heard sounded the same, weak, thin, tepid.
I think that Divertimento, which is not a big, famous, major piece by any means, was the first Prokofiev in a long time that I heard and liked right off. TPeter and the Wolf, from my childhood, I had liked right off, and the scherzo to the fifth symphony, which I heard in high school, I liked right off. The rest of them? No. But fortunately, I found that each weak, thin, tepid piece I heard turned magically into something strong, and full, and fascinating with only a couple of listens. So I learned very quickly that my first impressions were wrong and would fade.
But inevitably, once one has explored all the older stuff, then the only thing left is the newer stuff. Fortunately, for me, once I had heard Bartok's Concerto for orchestra in 1972, I was all over the newer stuff. I would have wanted that even had I not already explored all the older stuff. (No, "all" does not literally mean "all." It means "enough to mean there are no more surprises." Berlioz was probably the last big surprise for me. I had always liked the Symphonie fantastique, but nothing else seemed memorable or interesting. Incroyable. But I think I understand why. Berlioz did not rely on a cantus firmus, so when his music sounds, it sounds over nothing, literally nothing, whereas Germanic musics always had a something or other going on underneath the music. If you know what I mean.
Well, eventually, I got over that and suddenly liked everything by Berlioz all at once. That was an overwhelming experience.
But newer stuff. Yeah. Also inevitably, once one has gotten through the more accessible (i.e., commercially available) stuff, one is left with stuff that's really outside any system of vetting. For those of you who like their music to be thoroughly vetted, this is not an enviable position to be in. I highly recommend it, however, even for the "greatness," "masterpiece," "high quality" crowd, which I sometimes think is everyone but myself. It's not, but boy howdy does it often seem so, especially on-line. But here's the thing. With really new and relatively unknown music, you are really on your own with it. There is no history, there is no critical agreement--there is no critical anything, not yet, anyway--there is no consensus, there is nothing but you and those sounds, which will, for a time at least, be coming at you without precedent.
Now there's excitement. There is genuine exploration. Not treading paths that others have already tread (but which you are treading for the first time), but treading pathlessly. What fun. Will you get masterpieces? No. Will you get great music? No. Not because the what you're getting is in any way inferior--it's just that terms like "masterpiece" and "great" and "inferior" point to a reality quite alien to the reality you're now in, exploring. Your experience is what is "great" now. Or at least genuine, genuinely yours. There is little or nothing to come between you and the music, to mediate your experience, to soften the edges, to make the bewildering comprehensible. This is raw, with all the advantages and, I suppose, disadvantages to that state, a state in which you become simultaneously more and less important. You are alone with the music, so supremely important. Your tastes, desires, and expectations, however, no longer apply here. So in that sense, you are less, much less.
It cannot last, of course. If you explore everything, then everything will become familiar. Heigh ho. Someone, somewhere will come up with something, eventually, that will rock me back on my heels. I trust that that will be so.
In the meantime, it is fun to listen to music anyway, and if the fun, now, of listening to Lionel Marchetti is the same, now, as the fun of listening to Haydn or Bizet or Mahler or anyone else also utterly familiar and safe, then "oh well." Listening to utterly familiar things is still good, clean fun. It genuinely is.
Lack time for real explorations, but there are always one or two 'new' composers lumbering around, here. And in my mind.
At the moment Eivind Groven's two symphonies, a little before the William Schuman and Henri Sauguet cycles. And in between some ancient music.
Beethoven 1798-1800
Dvorak (piano music)
Shostakovich chronological
Chopin chronological
Sibelius more-or-less chronological now that I've got past the bit where he truly wrecked the opus numbers
Nielsen symphonies (a bit sporadic)
Szymanowski chronological (ditto)
Tubin symphonies (ditto)
Vine symphonies
Bach cantatas chronological (veeery gradually)
Schubert instrumental works that he bothered to finish
Faure song cycles
My Mozart collection by a tricky method designed to make me hit on random unexpected things.
The proposition that it's only "genuine" exploration if other people haven't got there before you is just tosh, though it's exactly the kind of tosh I'd expect from some guy. That's like saying it's not worth going to see a great building or painting because other people saw it first and told you they loved it. Given that music is designed to be heard, not written about, my own reactions to what I hear are infinitely more relevant than whether my reaction matches the reaction of large numbers of other people.
Quote from: orfeo on June 09, 2016, 04:42:02 AM
Beethoven 1798-1800
Dvorak (piano music)
Shostakovich chronological
Chopin chronological
Sibelius more-or-less chronological now that I've got past the bit where he truly wrecked the opus numbers
Nielsen symphonies (a bit sporadic)
Szymanowski chronological (ditto)
Tubin symphonies (ditto)
Vine symphonies
Bach cantatas chronological (veeery gradually)
Schubert instrumental works that he bothered to finish
Faure song cycles
My Mozart collection by a tricky method designed to make me hit on random unexpected things.
The proposition that it's only exploration if other people haven't got there before you is just tosh, though it's exactly the kind of tosh I'd expect from some guy. That's like saying it's not worth going to see a great building or painting because other people saw it first and told you they loved it.
Very nice list, orfeo. Agreed on your comments about some guy's uninformed opinion.
P.S. Would be
very interested in reading your opinions of Nielsen's symphonic cycle once you've finished it. Please share your thoughts on his thread.
Regarding "genuine" exploration: there's also the minor detail that if you are able to purchase a recording of a work, you are logically not the first person to get to know it. Genuine exploration would actually consist of unearthing manuscripts.
Quote from: Mirror Image on June 09, 2016, 04:46:07 AM
P.S. Would be very interested in reading your opinions of Nielsen's symphonic cycle once you've finished it. Please share your thoughts on his thread.
I clearly have no choice but to go to my preferred streaming service and crank up Symphony No.3 immediately.
Quote from: orfeo on June 09, 2016, 04:52:46 AM
I clearly have no choice but to go to my preferred streaming service and crank up Symphony No.3 immediately.
;) Got to love the
Espansiva! Happy listening!
So we are agreed? We are going with orfeo's distortion of what I said, never mind what that actually was?
Well, OK. I have to say, though, since we're trading expectations, that I wouldn't have expected anything else from the likes of Mirror or orfeo.
Heigh ho.
I am mostly doing a random walk through music.
Perhaps I am dwelling a bit more on Russian composer these days:
Mussorsky, Rimsky, Prokofiev, Shostakovich mostly
but also those USSR composers which have been kept in the bottle: Chaporin, Sviridov, who are the spiritual descendent of Tchaikovsky and Mussorsky Armenian music (Katchaturian, Komitas) is also a sidekick
Other areas of interest: British music (Britten, vaugh Willaims, Elgar)
and of course the french repertoire.
Currently Edvard Grieg (you are to blame for that, John!...). I plan to listen to the complete Lieder, chamber and piano music (Victoria Grieg Edition), complete orchestral works (Ruud) and complete chamber music (Brilliant).
In the last month:
Tchaikovsky (finished the complete piano works with Victoria Postnikova, excellent), Francois Couperin (finished the complete chamber music with Musica ad Rhenum, most charming), Anatol Lyadov (finished the complete piano works with Marco Rapetti, very enjoyable), Camille Saint-Saens (chamber music, concertos, symphonies with various artists, ongoing), Luigi Boccherini (Brilliant Edition and Goritzki complete symphonies, ongoing), Giuseppe Tartini (complete violin concertos, Federico Guglielmo, ongoing).
Scheduled in the near future: Carl Loewe, Louis Spohr, Dvorak, Granville Bantock, Cyril Scott, Scriabin, Rachmaninoff, Chopin, Edouard Lalo.
:D
Quote from: Florestan on June 09, 2016, 07:07:30 AM
Currently Edvard Grieg
A simple land with a few small peaks and much flat terrain.
I think it's a "land" with many fascinating surprises.
I'd say give it another visit!
Quote from: some guy on June 09, 2016, 06:33:36 AM
So we are agreed? We are going with orfeo's distortion of what I said, never mind what that actually was?
Well, OK. I have to say, though, since we're trading expectations, that I wouldn't have expected anything else from the likes of Mirror or orfeo.
Heigh ho.
Other shoe, meet other foot.
I <3 some guy
Quote from: nathanb on June 09, 2016, 01:11:07 PM
I <3 some guy
Is that a heart or a ballsack? ;D
Sarge
:-)
Quote from: Mirror Image on June 08, 2016, 03:48:00 PM
Here's a fun thread and will give us a chance to see what we're all interested in at the moment.
Here's my current roster of composers I'm exploring at the moment: Beethoven (!!!), Dvořák, Rubbra, Berlioz, Grieg, Shostakovich, Brahms, and Schumann. Several of these composers I haven't spent enough time with and some of them I know already pretty well but it's been ages since I've really sat down and listened to their music.
Rubbra is a favourite of mine. My favourites are symphonies 4,5,7,8 and 10. I also like the Piano Concerto. Let us know what you think John. :)
As for me:
Jean Cras (thanks to Drasko on this Forum)
Kabalevsky: Piano Concerto 1 has been a revelation.
Arthur Butterworth (can't wait for the new Lyrita issue of the sibelian Symphony 4).
Quote from: Sergeant Rock on June 09, 2016, 01:23:14 PM
Is that a heart or a ballsack? ;D
Sarge
Can't it be both?
Quote from: some guy on June 09, 2016, 06:33:36 AM
So we are agreed? We are going with orfeo's distortion of what I said, never mind what that actually was?
Well, OK. I have to say, though, since we're trading expectations, that I wouldn't have expected anything else from the likes of Mirror or orfeo.
Heigh ho.
And I wouldn't expect anything less than for you to derail the thread with your own agenda. The topic was "which composers are you currently exploring", not "please provide your entire philosophy of music yet again". Heigh ho.
Quote from: vandermolen on June 09, 2016, 01:43:45 PM
Rubbra is a favourite of mine. My favourites are symphonies 4,5,7,8 and 10. I also like the Piano Concerto. Let us know what you think John. :)
As for me:
Jean Cras (thanks to Drasko on this Forum)
Kabalevsky: Piano Concerto 1 has been a revelation.
Arthur Butterworth (can't wait for the new Lyrita issue of the sibelian Symphony 4).
Thanks, Jeffrey. I actually am pretty familiar with Rubbra's music, it's just been too long since I have done any further exploring. Right now, the 4th, 5th, and 7th stand out in my mind.
Quote from: Florestan on June 09, 2016, 07:07:30 AM
Currently Edvard Grieg (you are to blame for that, John!...). I plan to listen to the complete Lieder, chamber and piano music (Victoria Grieg Edition), complete orchestral works (Ruud) and complete chamber music (Brilliant).
In the last month:
Tchaikovsky (finished the complete piano works with Victoria Postnikova, excellent), Francois Couperin (finished the complete chamber music with Musica ad Rhenum, most charming), Anatol Lyadov (finished the complete piano works with Marco Rapetti, very enjoyable), Camille Saint-Saens (chamber music, concertos, symphonies with various artists, ongoing), Luigi Boccherini (Brilliant Edition and Goritzki complete symphonies, ongoing), Giuseppe Tartini (complete violin concertos, Federico Guglielmo, ongoing).
Scheduled in the near future: Carl Loewe, Louis Spohr, Dvorak, Granville Bantock, Cyril Scott, Scriabin, Rachmaninoff, Chopin, Edouard Lalo.
:D
A very distinguish list you have there! Happy exploring! Let me know how you go on with Grieg. I've
really enjoyed everything I've heard so far. Such a unique composer.
some guy is my talkclassical sugar daddy and has been a positive influence upon my favorite new passion for much longer than I've been here. Be nice to him.
Nicholas de Grigny
Francois Couperin
Peeter Cornet
Alexandr Scriabin
J.S. Bach (as always)
Most immediate future will be Arnold and Schuman (symphonies)
Quote from: Ken B on June 09, 2016, 08:26:05 AM
A simple land with a few small peaks and much flat terrain.
Doesn´t look like Norway at all...
Orchestral music: colorful orchestration, catchy tunes, atmospheric and evocative moods.
Lieder: poetry of words and sounds.
Piano & Chamber music: maximum of expression with minimum of means.
What´s not to like about Grieg?
Quote from: Florestan on June 10, 2016, 06:40:04 AM
Doesn´t look like Norway at all...
Orchestral music: colorful orchestration, catchy tunes, atmospheric and evocative moods.
Lieder: poetry of words and sounds.
Piano & Chamber music: maximum of expression with minimum of means.
What´s not to like about Grieg?
Precisely. 8) Grieg's music is a product of not only his own environment, but of his own humanity. You can hear it in every haunting melody.
I find most of Grieg's orchestral music to be a bit too far on the naive side. But his lieder, lyric pieces, and chamber music alone is enough to make him great.
I'm presently listening to the works of Barber I've never before heard. That includes the first Symphony, parts of Medea, and the Capricorn Concerto. Also, I'm investigating the music of Dallapiccola..love the Partita and Variations for Orchestra. Also the big symphonies of Milhaud (post Opus 300) which I have been enjoying for a couple months.
Quote from: Rons_talking on June 11, 2016, 04:06:06 AM
I'm presently listening to the works of Barber I've never before heard. That includes the first Symphony, parts of Medea, and the Capricorn Concerto. Also, I'm investigating the music of Dallapiccola..love the Partita and Variations for Orchestra. Also the big symphonies of Milhaud (post Opus 300) which I have been enjoying for a couple months.
Barber and Dallapiccola are fantastic composers. Milhaud...umm...not so much. :-\
I guess after tonight's flurry I have to add Nørgård to my list. Three symphonies in one night, five more to go...
Quote from: orfeo on June 11, 2016, 07:45:48 AM
I guess after tonight's flurry I have to add Nørgård to my list. Three symphonies in one night, five more to go...
Nørgård's
Symphony No. 3 is something else. Really fantastic piece. I'm less sure of the others as it's been too long. Would it be possible after you've absorbed the music to write a little bit about your listening experience and what you got from these works? That would add a lot to the ongoing Nørgård composer thread.
Quote from: Mirror Image on June 11, 2016, 07:38:51 AM
Milhaud...umm...not so much. :-\
He´s one of the jolliest composers ever. In my book this is an asset. :D
Quote from: Florestan on June 11, 2016, 10:42:33 AM
He´s one of the jolliest composers ever. In my book this is an asset. :D
Milhaud was at one time one of John's favourites.
Well, same with everyone else. No one sticks until at least three tries.
John changes the glue from 3M stickie to regular glue stick to regular glue. After three times, John brings out The Super Glue.
Quote from: Christo on June 09, 2016, 04:06:25 AM
Lack time for real explorations, but there are always one or two 'new' composers lumbering around, here. And in my mind.
At the moment Eivind Groven's two symphonies, a little before the William Schuman and Henri Sauguet cycles. And in between some ancient music.
I really like the Sauguet and find the 'Expiatoire' very moving but I have increasingly come to appreciate the very long No.2 and the propulsive No.3 which I have two recordings of. There was a French recording of 'Expiatoire' which I'd like to track down.
Quote from: Rons_talking on June 11, 2016, 04:06:06 AM
I'm presently listening to the works of Barber I've never before heard. That includes the first Symphony, parts of Medea, and the Capricorn Concerto. Also, I'm investigating the music of Dallapiccola..love the Partita and Variations for Orchestra. Also the big symphonies of Milhaud (post Opus 300) which I have been enjoying for a couple months.
I love the Medea music and Symphony 1.
Quote from: springrite on June 11, 2016, 11:19:30 PM
Milhaud was at one time one of John's favourites.
Well, same with everyone else. No one sticks until at least three tries.
John changes the glue from 3M stickie to regular glue stick to regular glue. After three times, John brings out The Super Glue.
:P
Quote from: Mirror Image on June 11, 2016, 07:38:51 AM
Barber and Dallapiccola are fantastic composers. Milhaud...umm...not so much. :-\
I like a fair bit of early Milhaud, but none of it is great stuff, just lively and colorful. He's better in short fare. I find the symphonies hard to sit through. Impossible really.
Quote from: Ken B on June 12, 2016, 09:22:40 AM
I like a fair bit of early Milhaud, but none of it is great stuff, just lively and colorful. He's better in short fare. I find the symphonies hard to sit through. Impossible really.
The box set of
Milhaud symphonies was for me a rare case of near-instant buyer's remorse.
Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk
Side note
My eyes keep reading the thread title as
What Composers Are You Currently Exploding
In which case it's poor Darius who is the current victim.
Quote from: Ken B on June 12, 2016, 09:22:40 AM
I like a fair bit of early Milhaud, but none of it is great stuff, just lively and colorful. He's better in short fare. I find the symphonies hard to sit through. Impossible really.
The only symphony by Milhaud I like is the 6th. You can keep the rest. I do like his
Carnaval d'Aix, but found the rest of his music for piano/orchestra to be rather unmemorable and not worth revisiting. Generally speaking, there's only a few French composers I really enjoy: Ravel, Debussy, Saint-Saens, Poulenc, and Berlioz.
Quote from: nathanb on June 10, 2016, 07:04:56 AM
I find most of Grieg's orchestral music to be a bit too far on the naive side. But his lieder, lyric pieces, and chamber music alone is enough to make him great.
Not sure
why naivety has to be considered a
bad thing in music per se or used as a criticism, but, IMHO, it certainly doesn't apply to Grieg. I mean you have these 'greatest hits' in his orchestral music that may give that kind of impression, but the same could be said of a lot of composers whose famous bits are often quoted or used in a TV commercial, but have you heard the quiet, more lyrical moments of
Holberg's Time or picked up on the subtlety and exquisite nuances of his
Piano Concerto? You're certainly entitled to feel however you want, I'm just expressing an alternate viewpoint. I think with a composer like Grieg, you have to recognize the environment he was nurtured in and how perhaps a more positive outlook helped shape his own experiences. This isn't to say he doesn't have his dramatic moments...he certainly does, but that's deeper to the core and is a side that he personally doesn't share often, but, when he does, it's extremely arresting.
Quote from: Mirror Image on June 12, 2016, 11:15:32 AM
Not sure why naivety has to be considered a bad thing in music per se or used as a criticism, but, IMHO, it certainly doesn't apply to Grieg. I mean you have these 'greatest hits' in his orchestral music that may give that kind of impression, but the same could be said of a lot of composers whose famous bits are often quoted or used in a TV commercial, but have you heard the quiet, more lyrical moments of Holberg's Time or picked up on the subtlety and exquisite nuances of his Piano Concerto? You're certainly entitled to feel however you want, I'm just expressing an alternate viewpoint. I think with a composer like Grieg, you have to recognize the environment he was nurtured in and how perhaps a more positive outlook helped shape his own experiences. This isn't to say he doesn't have his dramatic moments...he certainly does, but that's deeper to the core and is a side that he personally doesn't share often, but, when he does, it's extremely arresting.
The Grieg
Piano Concerto has to be one of the classical pieces I've listened to most, period. I love it for what it is, but I'm stickin' to my guns on this one :)
Quote from: nathanb on June 12, 2016, 02:00:41 PM
The Grieg Piano Concerto has to be one of the classical pieces I've listened to most, period. I love it for what it is, but I'm stickin' to my guns on this one :)
Well, I'm certainly not trying to change your mind of course, but merely offering a well-considered rebuttal.
Quote from: Mirror Image on June 12, 2016, 02:03:31 PM
Well, I'm certainly not trying to change your mind of course, but merely offering a well-considered rebuttal.
Then you are a gentleman and a scholar, my good man.
Quote from: nathanb on June 12, 2016, 02:25:15 PM
Then you are a gentleman and a scholar, my good man.
8)
This is out-of-the-blue but have you participated in the 'Top 10 Favorite Composers' thread? I'd love to know your tastes. My current list is in serious compromise right now, but I have my firm favorites, which will never be bumped from my list.
I could certainly do that, but I've been thinking:
I would really have to just go ahead and exclude Bach/Mozart/Beethoven. I simply haven't listened to their music enough in the last year or so to justify including them without feeling that I'm just offering my blind allegiance. I love their music to death, and consider them to be three men of monolithic talent, but it is simply not where my heart leads me right now; I have listened to them a ton in the past, but if I'm going to do this kind of thing, I have to be honest about my present feelings, in spite of however much I may want to fit in and focus on historical giants.
Quote from: nathanb on June 12, 2016, 04:16:30 PM
I could certainly do that, but I've been thinking:
I would really have to just go ahead and exclude Bach/Mozart/Beethoven. I simply haven't listened to their music enough in the last year or so to justify including them without feeling that I'm just offering my blind allegiance. I love their music to death, and consider them to be three men of monolithic talent, but it is simply not where my heart leads me right now; I have listened to them a ton in the past, but if I'm going to do this kind of thing, I have to be honest about my present feelings, in spite of however much I may want to fit in and focus on historical giants.
Any list of this nature should speak of your current experiences and where you're currently at musically speaking. For me, I've been getting back into music that has long been in my heart. Many members view me as a 20th Century connoisseur and have caught me in many different phases in this development as a listener. I don't think they know that Romantic music (incl. late-Romanticism) is where I actually caught the classical bug. Hearing Dvorak, Berlioz, Brahms, Liszt, Smetana, Tchaikovsky, Borodin, Bruckner, Rachmaninov, Mahler, Strauss, Wagner, Mussorgsky, Liadov, Saint-Saens, etc. for the first-time seven years ago helped fuel what would turn into a passionate fire. Our tastes change as we get more experience under our belts, but I'll never forget the positive listening experiences I've had so far. I may have turned my back on this music for many years, but anything that has meant something to you will find a way back into your heart and mind. I'm a firm believer in that.
Quote from: Mirror Image on June 12, 2016, 04:25:40 PM
Any list of this nature should speak of your current experiences and where you're currently at musically speaking. For me, I've been getting back into music that has long been in my heart. Many members view me as a 20th Century connoisseur and have caught me in many different phases of this development as a listener. I don't think they know that Romantic music (incl. late-Romanticism, too) is where I actually caught the classical bug. Hearing Dvorak, Berlioz, Brahms, Liszt, Smetana, Tchaikovsky, Borodin, Bruckner, Mahler, Strauss, Wagner, Mussorgsky, Liadov, Saint-Saens, etc. for the first-time seven years ago helped fuel what would turn into a passionate fire. Our tastes change as we get more experience under our belts, but I'll never forget the positive listening experiences I've had so far. I may have turned my back on this music for many years, but anything that has meant something to you will find a way back into your heart and mind. I'm a firm believer in that.
And I firmly agree with what you say. As for where I am right this moment in my heart and mind, it's posted :)
Quote from: karlhenning on June 12, 2016, 09:30:57 AM
The box set of Milhaud symphonies was for me a rare case of near-instant buyer's remorse.
Me too.
So I took that as a challenge.
I hadn't listened to these but once since I bought the set, and when I found that I had the sound files stored on a hard drive, having ripped these CDs, I accepted the challenge.
I've only made it through the first four so far, but I have to say, it's been a much better experience than I anticipated. They are strange creatures, to be sure. Very subtle, actually. With big, obvious bits as well, it's true. A lot of long passages in which there are really no things that stand out, so requiring a pretty intense concentration. Lose your concentration for an instance, and you're sunk.
I've enjoyed the first four so far pretty well, though. And am looking forward to the next nine. That first entrance of the chorus in number three is pretty cool. Big chords in the orchestra. When they cut out, there's a wordless chorus continuing on, piano. Magical.
Edit: Plus those covers, too. Nice covers, no?
Quote from: Mirror Image on June 12, 2016, 10:57:41 AM
The only symphony by Milhaud I like is the 6th. You can keep the rest. I do like his Carnaval d'Aix, but found the rest of his music for piano/orchestra to be rather unmemorable and not worth revisiting. Generally speaking, there's only a few French composers I really enjoy: Ravel, Debussy, Saint-Saens, Poulenc, and Berlioz.
Magnard?
You should consider adding Faure and Cras. And is Honegger really French?
Quote from: Mirror Image on June 12, 2016, 11:15:32 AM
This isn't to say he doesn't have his dramatic moments...he certainly does, but that's deeper to the core and is a side that he personally doesn't share often, but, when he does, it's extremely arresting.
Like for instance in
Bergliot, which is one of the most frightening pieces I´v ever heard.
erato's post reminded me of something.
Milhaud wrote two sets of symphonies. The symphonies and the little symphonies.
Which #6 is Mirror referring to? The sixth symphony is not that much different from the other symphonies. (Yes, I'm up to six now. On to seven-twelve later today.) But the sixth little symphony I recall from my childhood as being quite cool. I don't recall any of the other little symphonies. Another thing to look forward to. I know I've listened to them. I just don't recall anything of them except for the sixth.
Otherwise, here's some more French composers worth exploring:
Michele Bokanowski
Jerome Noetinger
Lionel Marchetti
Christine Groult
eRikm
Varese (unless you're counting him as (US) American)
Francis Dhomont
Pierre Henry
Gilles Gobeil
Luc Ferrari
Beatriz Ferreyra (if you count Varese as US)
Eliane Radigue
Jean-Francios Laporte
For starters....
Quote from: Mirror Image on June 12, 2016, 04:25:40 PM
Any list of this nature should speak of your current experiences and where you're currently at musically speaking.
Now I understand why your lists are always changing....I don't share that view by the way.
Quote from: The new erato on June 13, 2016, 01:49:28 AM
Magnard?
You should consider adding Faure and Cras. And is Honegger really French?
In term of nationality, yes. But which composer embodies really the French spirit ? As far as I am concerned, only
Jean-Philippe Rameau
Georges Bizet
Francis Poulenc
qualify.
As far as his music is concerned Berlioz could have been German. Debussy music is a mixture of Wagner and french influences. Ravel comes closer to the french spirit.
Quote from: Spineur on June 13, 2016, 04:28:54 AM
Georges Bizet
Who is famous for one work only which actually embodies the Spanish spirit. :D :D :D
Quote from: Florestan on June 13, 2016, 04:30:44 AM
Who is famous for one work only which actually embodies the Spanish spirit. :D :D :D
This reminds me of an interview of Sviatoslav Richter who was asked what is views were of spanish piano music. His answer was there wasn't much beyond Ravel "Elborada del gracioso" :D :D
Quote from: Spineur on June 13, 2016, 04:28:54 AM
which composer embodies really the French spirit ?
What is the French spirit really? Can it be defined in such certain terms as to clearly distinguish it from the spirit of other nations? And if some (famous) Frenchmen are found to be lacking it, are they then less French because of that?
Just asking. :)
Quote from: Florestan on June 13, 2016, 04:48:38 AM
What is the French spirit really? Can it be defined in such certain terms as to clearly distinguish it from the spirit of other nations? And if some (famous) Frenchmen are found to be lacking it, are they then less French because of that?
Just asking. :)
I prefer Virgil Thomson's approach. He was asked what you need to do to write American music. "First, be an American. Second, write music."
Quote from: Ken B on June 13, 2016, 05:06:39 AM
I prefer Virgil Thomson's approach. He was asked what you need to do to write American music. "First, be an American. Second, write music."
Very good. :laugh:
Quote from: Florestan on June 13, 2016, 04:48:38 AM
What is the French spirit really? Can it be defined in such certain terms as to clearly distinguish it from the spirit of other nations? And if some (famous) Frenchmen are found to be lacking it, are they then less French because of that?
Just asking. :)
For me its an emotional feeling that cant be defined. A little bit like "love" or "truth". I lived 1/3 of my life out of France. When you are away from "home" is when you can feel what you are missing. And when you listen to some recorded music, you instantly know that yes this is something that you have been missing, or no this isnt much different than any other european composer.
Listening to the music that Dvorak composed while in United States also helps understand what I mean. Its is strongly influenced by Czech and Slavonic roots, more so than his earlier compositions while he was still "at home".
Quote from: Spineur on June 13, 2016, 05:10:07 AM
For me its an emotional feeling that cant be defined.
Ah, I see. And if we switch to literature, who embodies the true French spirit? Just curious if my favorite French writers qualify.
Quote from: Spineur on June 13, 2016, 05:10:07 AM
Listening to the music that Dvorak composed while in United States also helps understand what I mean. Its is strongly influenced by Czech and Slavonic roots, more so than his earlier compositions while he was still "at home".
Except that Dvorak's "Slavic period" is generally dated to about a decade before he went to America, so scholarship doesn't agree with your impression.
Quote from: Florestan on June 13, 2016, 04:48:38 AM
What is the French spirit really?
The will to strike recklessly and violently every time you sense that somebody is trying to change anything. I think that is more or less it.
Quote from: The new erato on June 13, 2016, 01:49:28 AM
Magnard?
You should consider adding Faure and Cras. And is Honegger really French?
I don't really know enough about Magnard for him to be counted as a favorite and the same applies to Cras. Now, Faure is a composer I just can't get into. I've tried. Lord knows I've tried. Honegger is Swiss of course.
Quote from: mc ukrneal on June 13, 2016, 03:42:11 AM
Now I understand why your lists are always changing....I don't share that view by the way.
For me, a list is just a fun thing to do and isn't something that's concrete. I have a whole plethora of favorites, but there are some I keep closer to my heart than others.
Quote from: Florestan on June 13, 2016, 04:48:38 AM
What is the French spirit really?
Easy:
(http://liquorliquidators.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/391x/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/r/e/remy_martin_xo_cognaca.jpg)
I far prefer the honest and slightly rustic Armagnac to the majority of perfumed and processed Cognacs.
Quote from: Florestan on June 13, 2016, 04:30:44 AMWho is famous for one work only which actually embodies the Spanish spirit. :D :D :D
:D I side with Spineur, however: the colourful music he wrote to
l'Arlésienne - heard live in the Amsterdam Concertgebouw last month - and e.g. his heroic
Ouverture La Patrie - are written in a style that is definitely 'French', and cannot be mistaken for anything else.
Definitely worth exploring this French composer, especially for his charming and inspiriting 'Symphonie':
[asin]B00M2D7MY0[/asin]
Quote from: Florestan on June 13, 2016, 04:30:44 AM
Who is famous for one work only which actually embodies the Spanish spirit. :D :D :D
Of course, many of us
here in Spain don't really think that opera embodies anything remotely close to the "Spanish spirirt" ;D
Quote from: Spineur on June 13, 2016, 04:43:18 AM
This reminds me of an interview of Sviatoslav Richter who was asked what is views were of spanish piano music. His answer was there wasn't much beyond Ravel "Elborada del gracioso" :D :D
It's a pity Mr. Richter did not enjoy the ready availability of information of the internet era, and never seemed to have heard of
Isaac Albéniz :D
Quote from: ritter on June 14, 2016, 06:14:13 AM
Of course, many of us here in Spain don't really think that opera embodies anything remotely close to the "Spanish spirirt" ;D
How do you define "the Spanish spirit" and what makes it so utterly alien to
Carmen? :)
Quote
It's a pity Mr. Richter did not enjoy the ready availability of information of the internet era, and never seemed to have heard of Isaac Albéniz :D
Enrique Granados, too.
Quote from: ritter on June 14, 2016, 06:14:13 AM
It's a pity Mr. Richter did not enjoy the ready availability of information of the internet era, and never seemed to have heard of Isaac Albéniz :D
Its also a pity we dont discuss more seriously spanish composers on GMG. There is a lot of it:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Spanish_composers (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Spanish_composers)
Thanks to Arkadi Volodos, I discovered last year, the fabulous Frederico Mompou.
Quote from: Florestan on June 14, 2016, 06:22:22 AM
How do you define "the Spanish spirit" and what makes it so utterly alien to Carmen? :)
I mght not know what the "Spanish spirit"
is, but I do recognise what it
is not.
Carmen's postccard folklorism is almost universally derided here in Spain (which does not mean, mind you, that many people here admire the opera
as such).
Cheers,
Quote from: ritter on June 14, 2016, 06:37:37 AM
I mght not know what the "Spanish spirit" is, but I do recognise what it is not.
Ah, I see. Kind of how
Spineur defined the "French"spirit:
Quote from: Spineur on June 13, 2016, 05:10:07 AM
For me its an emotional feeling that cant be defined.
OK, Florestan, let's put you on the spot then.
How about you play, too, and give us a wee bit definition of "the Romanian spirit?"
Maybe you would be fine with that definition featuring blood and preternaturally large canine teeth?
In any case, any of you could come up with any definition of any national spirit and anyone else could go out into the the streets of said nation and find a dozen native exceptions to that definition in, oh, about twelve seconds.
Within that same time span, the anyone else would also have found at least a half a dozen non-natives who exemplify neither the spirit of the nation in question nor the spirit of the country where they were born.
Easy!
Quote from: some guy on June 14, 2016, 07:04:58 AM
OK, Florestan, let's put you on the spot then.
How about you play, too, and give us a wee bit definition of "the Romanian spirit?"
Maybe you would be fine with that definition featuring blood and preternaturally large canine teeth?
In any case, any of you could come up with any definition of any national spirit and anyone else could go out into the the streets of said nation and find a dozen native exceptions to that definition in, oh, about twelve seconds.
Within that same time span, the anyone else would also have found at least a half a dozen non-natives who exemplify neither the spirit of the nation in question nor the spirit of the country where they were born.
Easy!
French music often sounds really French to me and that's typically what I like about it. Romanian music tends to sound less French than French music, but, since French music tends to sound less Romanian than Romanian music, it all tends to work out.
Best I can do.
Quote from: nathanb on June 14, 2016, 07:23:26 AMRomanian music tends to sound less French than French music, but, since French music tends to sound less Romanian than Romanian music, it all tends to work out.
Best I can do.
:)
And if a French composer born in Italy teams up with a Japanese compoer to do turntable improv that includes a recording of a German composer, that must get really confusing, no?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yhcgm3rdaUY&list=RDX2BmRDXIMlQ&index=18
Either that or it all works out, I guess. Yeah! It all works out!!
OK! :D
Quote from: some guy on June 14, 2016, 07:04:58 AM
OK, Florestan, let's put you on the spot then.
How about you play, too, and give us a wee bit definition of "the Romanian spirit?"
Believe it or not, I´ve been ruminating this topic for the whole afternoon, so I will willingly play.
Answer No. 1: the Romanian spirit is
țuica (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C8%9Auic%C4%83)
Answer No. 2: if by "the Romanian spirit" you mean an ensemble of specific psychological traits and behavioral patterns which are (1) markedly different, and notably distinguishable, from those of other nations, and (2) clearly discernible throughout the centuries, then I must confess that I don´t know what "the Romanian spirit" is, nor do I believe anyone can define it.
For instance, the Romanians of today and the Romanians of the 15th century are separated by such an insurmountable gap, first and foremost linguistical, that any attempt at defining a "Romanian spirit" which allegedly unite them is absolutely futile.
Answer No. 3: I could certainly list some psychological traits and behavioral patterns which, based on (1) my personal experience and anecdotic evidence and (2) my corroborating foreign travellers´ recorded observations during the last two centuries, could give you, or anyone else, a very general and relative idea regarding how Romanians would behave or react in specific circumstances --- with two caveats: (a) you should not expect all Romanians, not even most of them, to behave or react as such and (b) you should not expect all non-Romanians, not even most of them, not to behave and react as such.
Answer No. 4: Had I been a musicologist, I could have certainly told you what the characteristics of the Romanian folklore music are, but unfortunately I am not.
Quote
In any case, any of you could come up with any definition of any national spirit and anyone else could go out into the the streets of said nation and find a dozen native exceptions to that definition in, oh, about twelve seconds.
Within that same time span, the anyone else would also have found at least a half a dozen non-natives who exemplify neither the spirit of the nation in question nor the spirit of the country where they were born.
Yes! Precisely one of my points above!
That´s why I (friendly and amiably) defy both
Spineur and
Ritter to come up with a definition of the "French" or "Spanish" spirit applicable to all Frenchmen / Spaniards, all the time. :laugh:
Quote from: Florestan on June 14, 2016, 10:33:30 AM
That´s why I (friendly and amiably) defy both Spineur and Ritter to come up with a definition of the "French" or "Spanish" spirit applicable to all Frenchmen / Spaniards, all the time. :laugh:
And I (as well as
notre cher Spineur, I venture to say) have (firendly and amiably ;)) said we cannot define our respective national "spirits". But I maintain that, whatever this undefinable Spanish spirit may be, it certainly ain't
Carmen ;).
Quote from: ritter on June 14, 2016, 01:02:34 PM
And I (as well as notre cher Spineur, I venture to say) have (firendly and amiably ;)) said we cannot define our respective national "spirits". But I maintain that, whatever this undefinable Spanish spirit may be, it certainly ain't Carmen ;).
Well, what can I say anything else than "Fair enough?" :D
And yet...
Unamuno maintained that
Don Quijote was far from being mad;
Ortega y Gasset claimed that, on the contrary,
Don Quijote was the paradigmatic madman. Now,
Unamuno and
Ortega y Gasset are both Spaniards. If one is right, then the other one is wrong. Now, who embodies the Spanish spirit? Undefinable as it is, it still cannot be A and non-A at the same time... :laugh:
Quote from: Florestan on June 14, 2016, 01:15:15 PM
Well, what can I say anything else than "Fair enough?" :D
And yet... Unamuno maintained that Don Quijote was far from being mad; Ortega y Gasset claimed that, on the contrary, Don Quijote was the paradigmatic madman. Now, Unamuno and Ortega y Gasset are both Spaniards. If one is right, then the other one is wrong. Now, who embodies the Spanish spirit? Undefinable as it is, it still cannot be A and non-A at the same time... :laugh:
You underestimate us Spaniards, dear
Florestan. If we wish to be A and non-A at the same time, we can do so with no trouble ;D.... Now, you're juxtaposing
Ortega and
Unamuno comes rather close to somehint akin to what could be seen as the "Spanish spirit": a country of people always arguing. No wonder we often speak of "
las dos Españas"...
Florestan,
Well OK, then.
We are agreed.
--some guy
Quote from: ritter on June 14, 2016, 01:25:41 PM
the "Spanish spirit": a country of people always arguing.
:laugh:
Quote
No wonder we often speak of "las dos Españas"...
Only two? :D
Quote from: ritter on June 14, 2016, 06:37:37 AM
I mght not know what the "Spanish spirit" is, but I do recognise what it is not. Carmen's postccard folklorism is almost universally derided here in Spain (which does not mean, mind you, that many people here admire the opera as such).
So can we say that
Carmen embodies the spirit of
postcards of Spain?
Quote from: ritter on June 14, 2016, 06:14:13 AM
Of course, many of us here in Spain don't really think that opera embodies anything remotely close to the "Spanish spirirt" ;D
It embodies the spirit of colonialism and misogyny, which are universal! At least among men, anyway.
Quote from: amw on June 16, 2016, 04:50:50 AM
[Carmen] embodies the spirit of colonialism and misogyny
Bullshit, or
mierda de toro if you prefer.
To answer the thread topic, I am currently exclusively listening to J.S. Bach, at this time-the solo keyboard music for harpsichord (partitas) and complete organ music.
Mostly comparative listening.
I have listened to solo keyboard Bach exclusively now for around 3 months. No other composers.
Quote from: hpowders on September 17, 2016, 10:40:22 AM
To answer the thread topic, I am currently exclusively listening to J.S. Bach, at this time-the solo keyboard music for harpsichord (partitas) and complete organ music.
Mostly comparative listening.
I have listened to solo keyboard Bach exclusively now for around 3 months. No other composers.
That's an easy rabbit hole to fall into!
Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on September 17, 2016, 11:14:08 AM
That's an easy rabbit hole to fall into!
J.S. Bach has seemed to spoil me for listening to any other composer at the moment.
When I was a kid, I couldn't stand Bach!
Older but wiser? :)
Currently making once again my semi-regular pilgrimage through the Mahler symphonies. This time it's a full cycle with Michael Gielen and the SWR Sinfonieorchester Baden-Baden und Freiburg.