(http://cps-static.rovicorp.com/3/JPG_500/MI0002/869/MI0002869141.jpg?partner=allrovi.com)
Another difficult poll for many I'm sure, but I regrettably bow out for now as I'm now only reacquainting myself with his oeuvre after years of neglect. I did have a Tchaikovsky 'phase' about six years ago and even then I felt that I hadn't explored the composer as well as I should have.
Anyway, time to pick your five favorites! Повеселись!
Hmmmm.
Serenade for Strings
Symphony No. 4
Symphony No. 5
Piano Concerto No. 2 (original/uncut)
Sleeping Beauty
Honorable mentions: Dumky for solo piano, Souvenir de Florence in the string sextet version
Best Tchaikovsky TRIBUTE work: Anton Arensky's String Quartet No. 2 (for violin, viola, and two cellos)
Sleeping Beauty
Nutcracker
Swan Lake
Violin concerto
Symphony 1
Sleeping Beauty
Orchestral Suite # 1 (and the variations movement of # 3) :D
Symphony No. 3 'Polish'
Souvenir de Florence (string sextet original version)
Violin Concerto
Wow, could we have a favourite 20 instead? :P
Same as my bottom 5 Tchaikovsky works! Haha!!!
Now, seriously:
Rococo Variations
Violin Concerto
Symphony #6
Symphony #5
Queen of Spade
In this thread, there's no such thing as a bad list.
Hmmm. For sentimental reasons the list MUST start with
The Swan's theme, in this recording specifically https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LKh3XddgN7Q (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LKh3XddgN7Q)
I don't listen to Piotr much anymore but ..
Symphony 6
Symphony 5
Serenade for Strings
Violin Concerto
Quote from: Ken B on June 24, 2016, 11:15:22 AM
Serenade for Strings
OOPS how did I forget my #1 favorite...gotta go edit my post
top 5
Souvenir de Florence
6th symphony
1st symphony
1st piano concerto
String Serenade
bottom 2
Mozartiana Suite
Rococo variations
Symphony No.1 G minor "Winter Dreams"
Symphony No.4 F minor
The Nutcracker
Swan Lake
Violin Concerto
Quote from: Brian on June 24, 2016, 11:28:17 AM
OOPS how did I forget my #1 favorite...
Wait 'til your second divorce. Then you'll understand.
Eugene Onegin
Piano Concerto No.2
Piano Trio
Violin Concerto
The Nutcracker
It could've been any of the ballets, really, but I do slightly prefer the Nutcracker (and mostly for the numbers that aren't in the suite). If I continued counting favourites, Piano Concerto No.1 would hold sixth place, followed by Symphonies 1 & 4.
Quote from: Brian on June 24, 2016, 07:58:56 AM
Piano Concerto No. 2 (original/uncut)
Always.
Symphony 6 'Pathetique'
Serenade for Strings
Francesca da Rimini
Symphony 1 'Winter Daydreams'
1812 Overture 8)
Serenade for Strings
Suite No. 3
String Quartet No. 1
Symphony No. 6
idk, depends: maybe Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom or maybe The Seasons or the 2nd Piano Concerto or some other thing
or something like that?
Someone (maybe Taruskin?) pointed out that Tchaikovsky was the only composer after Mozart to excel—and make a permanent repertoire contribution—in every single genre of classical music of his time: opera, symphony, symphonic poem, concerto, ballet, chamber music, solo piano music, songs/romances, sacred choral works, secular choral works (idk about his contributions there but there must be something) and etc. In particular ever since Beethoven/Rossini there has been a very notable opera/symphony divide which only Tchaikovsky bridged. I couldn't think of any counterexamples off hand though there are probably some. (going forward to the 20th century, in terms of repertoire contributions, obviously Prokofiev and a few others also wrote both major operas and major symphonies—but idk about contributing in "every" genre in any of their cases.)
Violin Concerto
Francesca da Rimini
The Nutcracker
Symphony no 6 "Pathétique"
Pique Dame
I am not sure if any solo piano or song/lied by Tchaikovsky is cornerstone repertoire, but otherwise it is true that in the 1870s/80s he was maybe the most versatile. But he was not the only one (major, of course there were plenty of second rate composers who wrote all kinds of stuff, e.g. Spohr).
Dvorak has no ballett (but neither has Mozart, in fact Tchaikovsky seems the first mainstream major ballet composer, so I think one should leave this genre out) and only one of his operas (Rusalka) really entered the repertoire. Smetana and Saint-Saens might also qualify although they might lack choral works (I don't know any) and have even fewer important solo piano pieces.
Schubert and Schumann also wrote "everything" but their operas were failures.
I really dig Manfred and the 5th Symphony, the rest I find pretty much unlistenable, especially the 1st PC and the Roccoco Variations
PC 1
VC
Symphonies 1 and 5
SQ 2
Capriccio Italien
Serenade for Strings
Quote from: PerfectWagnerite on June 25, 2016, 01:12:38 PM
I really dig Manfred and the 5th Symphony, the rest I find pretty much unlistenable, especially the 1st PC and the Roccoco Variations
I dig
Manfred and the
5th, too. and I feel sorry I had to leave them out.
I'm not that fond of the 1st PC (except for the slow movement), but for the rest I've always had a weak spot for Pjotr's music.
Plenty of melody, plenty of skill, and plenty (and more plenty) of drama.
His chamber music is very enjoyable IMO, but I couldn't think of any piece 'worthy' of a Top 5 position.
Only piece by Tchaikovsky I like is Le baiser de la fée... :D
I suggest the following rule on polls: Mirror Image is always restricted to one fewer choice than anyone else.
Do I have a second for the motion?
I never liked the Rococo and I became sick of the violin concerto very quickly. But I still like the b minor piano concerto once in a while in interpretations with sufficient sweep. There are other pieces where I admire some movements and quite dislike others, e.g. I could easily do without the finale of the 4th symphony but the other three movements are remarkable. One nasty thing is that I only have to think of the violin concerto or the 4th finale and the music will enter my brain as an earworm...
The seasons or the first string quartet are lovely pieces that deserve to be better known. Tchaikovsky seems a fairly extreme case of some super-popular works drowning the rest of his oeuvre. And unfortunately these works are sometimes not that good or become trite very quickly after listening more than twice... 1812... Marche slave... Capriccio italienne...
Even the standard Ballett suites sometimes leave out the best stuff (clearly in Nutcracker where the suite gives a completely skewed impression of the whole piece).
I really should get to know the famous operas better; I have a recording of Onegin on my shelves but only listened once or twice many years ago. (It's my old problem of not wanting to listen to opera on disc unless I already love the piece which makes it difficult to get into new operas...;))
Quote from: Jo498 on June 25, 2016, 01:12:00 PM
I am not sure if any solo piano or song/lied by Tchaikovsky is cornerstone repertoire, but otherwise it is true that in the 1870s/80s he was maybe the most versatile. But he was not the only one (major, of course there were plenty of second rate composers who wrote all kinds of stuff, e.g. Spohr).
Dvorak has no ballett (but neither has Mozart, in fact Tchaikovsky seems the first mainstream major ballet composer, so I think one should leave this genre out) and only one of his operas (Rusalka) really entered the repertoire. Smetana and Saint-Saens might also qualify although they might lack choral works (I don't know any) and have even fewer important solo piano pieces.
Schubert and Schumann also wrote "everything" but their operas were failures.
Taruskin may have committed a bit of sleight of hand by including newer genres (e.g. lieder) but excluding older genres which were still active but perhaps less popular (e.g. organ). I thought of organ when contemplating Brahms, who of course like Dvorak has no ballet.
If "ballet" were expanded to general "dance music", then Brahms and Dvorak both gain admittance, I think.
Quote from: Jo498 on June 25, 2016, 01:12:00 PM
Dvorak has no ballett (but neither has Mozart, in fact Tchaikovsky seems the first mainstream major ballet composer, so I think one should leave this genre out)
Well to be fair Tchaikovsky did basically put ballet on the map, to the point where whilst it's not fair to include it as a major genre in the work of earlier composers it
is a major genre for every subsequent generation.
With Mozart we have essentially the "complete artist" of the late 18th century w/opera seria, opera buffa, symphony, concerto, chamber music, sacred choral works, solo piano, etc. A genre like oratorio was not especially relevant anymore by this point (revived by Haydn after Mozart's death) so he cannot be faulted for not writing one, and a genre like song would not become particularly important until the early 19th century so Mozart's songs are forgiven not being repertoire pieces.
Dvořák iirc was cited in the same article although, while his lack of a ballet was not held against him, the fact that
Rusalka is his only remembered opera consigned him to be a one-opera composer like Beethoven in practice if not in fact. Though if any other operas enter the repertoire he'd also be a contender I guess lol
Honorary mentions:
Pique dame
Cherevicki.
Violin Concerto
Symphony No.5
Piano Concerto Nr.1
Sleeping Beauty
The Nutcracker
Quote from: springrite on June 25, 2016, 12:54:33 PM
You get a yellow card for this!
Guilty pleasure Paul. 8)
Quote from: amw on June 26, 2016, 07:06:52 AM
Dvořák iirc was cited in the same article although, while his lack of a ballet was not held against him, the fact that Rusalka is his only remembered opera consigned him to be a one-opera composer like Beethoven in practice if not in fact. Though if any other operas enter the repertoire he'd also be a contender I guess lol
I guess that some of the "national" composers were less fazed by the Wagnerian dominance in opera and did not see a need to pick a side in the quarrel between the "Neudeutsche" around Liszt and Wagner and the more traditionalist strain from Mendelssohn to Brahms. Mendelssohn might have tried an opera had he lived longer and Schumann actually composed a not very successful one. As Tchaikovsky is in practice a two-opera-composer I would not hold their "one opera" status against Beethoven, Dvorak or Smetana.
And as you pointed out, this changes again after the early 1900s with many composers writing at least a few major pieces in all important genres (although they are often one-opera-guys like Bartok or Schönberg and Stravinsky has very little chamber and almost no relevant piano solo)
Quote from: Brian on June 26, 2016, 06:35:09 AM
Taruskin may have committed a bit of sleight of hand by including newer genres (e.g. lieder) but excluding older genres which were still active but perhaps less popular (e.g. organ). I thought of organ when contemplating Brahms, who of course like Dvorak has no ballet.
If "ballet" were expanded to general "dance music", then Brahms and Dvorak both gain admittance, I think.
But "organ" is not a genre. My top 5 Tchaikovsky works probably are:
Symphonies 5 and 6
Nutcracker (but it has to be in Balanchine's choreography)
Romeo and Juliet
Pf Concerto 1
But not 2. Really sorry you had to miss the NYC Ballet in Balanchine's choreography for 2, Brian, since it would have blown you away.
Quote from: Wanderer on June 24, 2016, 12:58:34 PM
Eugene Onegin
Piano Concerto No.2
Piano Trio
Violin Concerto
The Nutcracker
I can get behind that list, though I really need the Souvenir de Florence in the sextet version on that list as no 6) - BTW I'll be in Florence at the end of next week. :D
Francesca da Rimini (especially the apocalyptic performance from the 70's conducted by Leopold Stokowski )
Manfred (especially the Toscanini/NBC Orchestra performance)
First Symphony
Third Symphony
Sixth and Fifth Symphonies ;) (and #2 and #4)
Quote from: Cato on June 28, 2016, 02:30:31 PM
Francesca da Rimini (especially the apocalyptic performance from the 70's conducted by Leopold Stokowski )
Manfred (especially the Toscanini/NBC Orchestra performance)
First Symphony
Third Symphony
Sixth and Fifth Symphonies ;) (and #2 and #4)
Good to know you were never a
math teacher Cato.
:P
Quote from: Cato on June 28, 2016, 02:30:31 PM
Francesca da Rimini (especially the apocalyptic performance from the 70's conducted by Leopold Stokowski )
Manfred (especially the Toscanini/NBC Orchestra performance)
First Symphony
Third Symphony
Sixth and Fifth Symphonies ;) (and #2 and #4)
Good choices. I forgot about Manfred and should have included it in my original list. I especially like the Svetlanov version where he brings the terrific end of the first movement back at the end of the last movement although this wasn't what Tchaikovsky had in mind! 8)
how did I miss this poll ????
my list (not very original - just being honest as usual):
Symphony #6
Romeo & Juliet
Piano Concerto #1
Swan Lake
SQ #3
Manfred
Symphony No. 3
Piano Concerto No. 1
Swan Lake
Romeo & Juliet overture
This is my list today. It's always changing though.
Symphonies 1,2,3
Nutcracker
Swan Lake
also like the Vln Cncerto a lot...
Quote from: Heck148 on July 03, 2016, 06:50:46 PM
Symphonies 1,2,3
Nutcracker
Swan Lake
also like the Vln Cncerto a lot...
The first three symphonies are much better than many give them credit for.
Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk
Quote from: The new erato on June 27, 2016, 05:23:54 AM
I can get behind that list, though I really need the Souvenir de Florence in the sextet version on that list as no 6) - BTW I'll be in Florence at the end of next week. :D
Excellent! If you have enough days at your disposal, I've been told that Siena is a very worthwhile day-trip from Florence. Have a great time!
Quote from: karlhenning on July 03, 2016, 06:55:42 PM
The first three symphonies are much better than many give them credit for.
yup...I much prefer them to #s 4 and 5...tho I admit that over-exposure of performance colors my opinion of 4 and 5.
I like the 1st, never got into the strange 3rd (maybe the most original after the 6th, though), don't care much for the very light and suite-like 2nd. My problem with the 4th and 5th concerns some movements/passages, especially the finales, but also the rather sentimental mvmts. 2+3 of the 5th. It might be overexposure for that one, but not for the 4th because I only got to know it much later. I admire the first 3 mvmts of the 4th and the first of the 5th, though. And the 6th is really justifiedly held above the rest with the most original conception and no flaws.
Quote from: Jo498 on July 04, 2016, 05:08:36 AM
I like the 1st, never got into the strange 3rd (maybe the most original after the 6th, though), don't care much for the very light and suite-like 2nd. My problem with the 4th and 5th concerns some movements/passages, especially the finales, but also the rather sentimental mvmts. 2+3 of the 5th. It might be overexposure for that one, but not for the 4th because I only got to know it much later. I admire the first 3 mvmts of the 4th and the first of the 5th, though. And the 6th is really justifiedly held above the rest with the most original conception and no flaws.
I've never care much for the 4th myself, especially its bombastic finale. As for the 3rd, my favorite way to experience that work is through Balanchine's choreography, the concluding Diamonds section of his ballet Jewels:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ArLbpD38sc
I think the pizzicato scherzo is brilliant, I don't care for the brassy fatum intro as well but the main section of the first movement "off beat" waltz is quite good although not better than the 5th or 6th.
Overall, for Tchaikovsky is better in "lighter" music which does not mean less serious but more theatrical, less focussed on symphonic style and development. So the scherzo of the 4th might be "too light" for a serious "fatum" symphony but it is quite brilliant as it is...
(For the 3rd ballett I have to find a gadget that will let me watch it in GEMA-Land)
Tchaikovsky's is the only symphony cycle where I couldn't live without any of them.
Quote from: Jo498 on July 04, 2016, 09:59:56 AM
Overall, for Tchaikovsky is better in "lighter" music which does not mean less serious but more theatrical,
I wouldn't say Tchaikovsky is better with "lighter" music - but rather with
dance music,
ballet...PIT really excels with the dance - here he really plugs into the drama, the great buildup and release of the dance action. ie - some of the wonderful Nutcracker music - [conclusion to act I], or the opening, or Waltz from Swan Lake - great stuff...
I find the first 3 symphonies to be more in this style...I like #6, but not schmaltzy and overly sentimentalized - I prefer Reiner or Mravinsky, or perhaps Mitropoulos...
Quote from: Jo498 on July 04, 2016, 09:59:56 AM
I think the pizzicato scherzo is brilliant, I don't care for the brassy fatum intro as well but the main section of the first movement "off beat" waltz is quite good although not better than the 5th or 6th.
Overall, for Tchaikovsky is better in "lighter" music which does not mean less serious but more theatrical, less focussed on symphonic style and development. So the scherzo of the 4th might be "too light" for a serious "fatum" symphony but it is quite brilliant as it is...
In the symphonies you presumably prefer recordings like Gatti's which emphasize the lightness and dance elements rather than the melodrama?
I don't like the symphonies enough to seek out multiple recordings. (In fact I could probably easily do without any of them. There were years when I could not listen to this stuff and I still get tired of most of them fairly quickly; a few years ago I wanted to compare several versions of the 4th or 5th and had to stop because I could not bear listening to the piece twice within an afternoon/evening...)
I don't think anything can redeem the 4th's finale for me and the scherzo is brilliant as long as it is played well enough.
I still have a lot of 4-6. I bought Mravinsky's and Fricsay's 4-6 on purpose, also Markevitch's complete recording and I have quite a few more of 4,5,6 because they came in boxes or as fillers for other things, e.g. Klemperer, Silvestri, another Markevitch 6th, another Fricsay 6th, Szell in 4 and 5...
If I found Svetlanov's (or maybe Roshdestvensky's) 1970s recordings of 1-3 separately, I might get them as alternatives to Markevitch, but I am not seeking out more of 4-6.
Quote from: Jo498 on July 04, 2016, 09:59:56 AM
I think the pizzicato scherzo is brilliant, I don't care for the brassy fatum intro as well but the main section of the first movement "off beat" waltz is quite good although not better than the 5th or 6th.
Overall, for Tchaikovsky is better in "lighter" music which does not mean less serious but more theatrical, less focussed on symphonic style and development. So the scherzo of the 4th might be "too light" for a serious "fatum" symphony but it is quite brilliant as it is...
(For the 3rd ballett I have to find a gadget that will let me watch it in GEMA-Land)
Does YouTube not function in Germany, or just that video?
Agree on the pizzicato scherzo of 4.
Quote from: (poco) Sforzando on July 05, 2016, 04:32:49 AM
Does YouTube not function in Germany, or just that video?
GEMA is the Gesellschaft für musikalische Aufführungs-und mechanische Vervielfältigungsrechte (Society for musical performing and mechanical reproduction rights). They prevent many videos, although not all by any means, from being shown in Germany (or rather, they make YouTube block the viewing for anyone trying to access the video from a German IP).
This is what your link looks like to those of us living in Germany:
(http://photos.imageevent.com/sgtrock/feb2016/Untitledcrop.jpg)
Sarge
Sorry, I naively assumed that the topic of GEMA blocked youtube videos had come up before.
Blame Richard Strauss, co-founder of GEMA (or more precisely its preceding institution).
Something else we can blame Richard Strauss for! (j/k)
Quote from: Sergeant Rock on July 05, 2016, 04:42:52 AM
GEMA is the Gesellschaft für musikalische Aufführungs-und mechanische Vervielfältigungsrechte (Society for musical performing and mechanical reproduction rights). They prevent many videos, although not all by any means, from being shown in Germany (or rather, they make YouTube block the view of anyone trying to access the video from a German IP).
This is what your link looks like to those of us living in Germany:]
Sarge
Ah. Ich wusste das nicht. You will therefore have to move to America, or I will have to find you a different link. Someone ought to inform the good people at YouTube, however, that the comma following "music" is incorrect, as it refers to music in an absolute (non-restrictive) sense, while the intention is to make the statement restrictive.
There is a rather good DVD version of the complete Jewels by the Paris Opera Ballet, for those interested.
There are workarounds. There are programs that use proxy servers to hide one's identity, so youtube doesn't recognize one is browsing from Germany. I just can't be bothered to install such a thing.
While there are similar institutions in many other countries, GEMA seems to be in perennial strife with youtube. I often cannot access videos embedded on US or even Austrian or other European websites/fora.
Quote from: Jo498 on July 04, 2016, 11:11:18 PM
I don't like the symphonies enough to seek out multiple recordings. (In fact I could probably easily do without any of them. There were years when I could not listen to this stuff and I still get tired of most of them fairly quickly; a few years ago I wanted to compare several versions of the 4th or 5th and had to stop because I could not bear listening to the piece twice within an afternoon/evening...)
I don't think anything can redeem the 4th's finale for me and the scherzo is brilliant as long as it is played well enough.
I still have a lot of 4-6. I bought Mravinsky's and Fricsay's 4-6 on purpose, also Markevitch's complete recording and I have quite a few more of 4,5,6 because they came in boxes or as fillers for other things, e.g. Klemperer, Silvestri, another Markevitch 6th, another Fricsay 6th, Szell in 4 and 5...
If I found Svetlanov's (or maybe Roshdestvensky's) 1970s recordings of 1-3 separately, I might get them as alternatives to Markevitch, but I am not seeking out more of 4-6.
I can't believe I'm saying this, but I'm finding myself nodding in agreement with you here. I revisited
Symphonies 1-3 & 5 a week or so ago and I found myself not really allured by this music any longer. I'm not sure if it's just been that time away from his music that changed my outlook, but I barely got through these symphonies. The 1st ("Winter Dreams") was my favorite as I thought the writing was had a greater unity than the others. I then listened to the
Violin Concerto and found it uninteresting. There's nothing that stuck out to me. I think, as someone else mentioned, that Tchaikovsky's greatest talent was writing ballet music. Even here, I'm not too impressed by these works either. Just give me some Mussorgsky any day of the week over Tchaikovsky.
Edit: This post should be in the 'Unpopular Opinions' thread. :)
Quote from: Mirror Image on July 05, 2016, 07:28:05 AM
I think, as someone else mentioned, that Tchaikovsky's greatest talent was writing ballet music. Even here, I'm not too impressed by these works either.
As will not surprise anyone, I think the three ballets work best when seen and not only heard. The Nutcracker, despite some minor cuts and rearrangements, is absolutely sublime in the version George Balanchine devised for the NYC Ballet, and a good DVD is available. (Macaulay Culkin plays the Nutcracker Prince, but fortunately he's still young and innocent enough so as not to be obnoxious.) Balanchine's great strength, in addition to fabulous sets and costumes, was to conceive the ballet in terms of childlike innocence rather than the nascent sexuality that tarnishes some other versions like Baryshnikov's. It can be fairly said that no other work dominates the world of dance as this one; it still draws sell-out crowds each year during City Ballet's winter season, where it is the sole work being presented some 45 times.
The other two ballets are more problematical for various reasons. It is hard not to make the villain in Swan Lake other than a caricature, and I've yet to see the ending make sense. But a great ballerina can make the Black Swan section in Act Three thrilling, especially if she does the full 32 famous fouettées (whip turns) in this act. As for Sleeping Beauty, I've seen some spotty productions, but one of the most thrilling experiences in my life was seeing Paloma Herrera from American Ballet Theatre in the Rose Adagio. As the movement drew to its conclusion with the most difficult balancing on point that I've ever seen, the entire audience that night at the Metropolitan Opera erupted in an ovation practically beyond anything else in my experience.
Quote from: Mirror Image on July 05, 2016, 07:28:05 AM
Just give me some Mussorgsky any day of the week over Tchaikovsky.
But what about weekends? That said, I do find Mussorgsky the more original, rougher and less polished voice. Boris Godunov is a stunning work.
Quote from: Heck148 on July 04, 2016, 12:30:42 PM
I wouldn't say Tchaikovsky is better with "lighter" music - but rather with dance music, ballet...PIT really excels with the dance - here he really plugs into the drama, the great buildup and release of the dance action. ie - some of the wonderful Nutcracker music - [conclusion to act I], or the opening, or Waltz from Swan Lake - great stuff...
Yes, this is a better description. He is also quite good at dramatic gestures like the prelude to Sleeping Beauty (and while I don't care for the fatal fanfare in the Fourth, I can hardly deny its striking effect) and evocative scenes like the snowy forest at the end of Nutcracker act I. These qualities do not always compute for me when combined in a symphony so I tend to find most of them mixed bags while there are no complaints about the ballet music or the string serenade.
There were years when I hardly listened to PIT. But there was a Melodiya sale at jpc so I ordered Svetlanov's recording of Sleeping Beauty and Khaikin's of Pique Dame and maybe I'll finally get to seriously listen to the latter as well as Eugen Onegin.
Quote from: (poco) Sforzando on July 05, 2016, 07:52:51 AM
As will not surprise anyone, I think the three ballets work best when seen and not only heard. The Nutcracker, despite some minor cuts and rearrangements, is absolutely sublime in the version George Balanchine devised for the NYC Ballet, and a good DVD is available. (Macaulay Culkin plays the Nutcracker Prince, but fortunately he's still young and innocent enough so as not to be obnoxious.) Balanchine's great strength, in addition to fabulous sets and costumes, was to conceive the ballet in terms of childlike innocence rather than the nascent sexuality that tarnishes some other versions like Baryshnikov's. It can be fairly said that no other work dominates the world of dance as this one; it still draws sell-out crowds each year during City Ballet's winter season, where it is the sole work being presented some 45 times.
The other two ballets are more problematical for various reasons. It is hard not to make the villain in Swan Lake other than a caricature, and I've yet to see the ending make sense. But a great ballerina can make the Black Swan section in Act Three thrilling, especially if she does the full 32 famous fouettées (whip turns) in this act. As for Sleeping Beauty, I've seen some spotty productions, but one of the most thrilling experiences in my life was seeing Paloma Herrera from American Ballet Theatre in the Rose Adagio. As the movement drew to its conclusion with the most difficult balancing on point that I've ever seen, the entire audience that night at the Metropolitan Opera erupted in an ovation practically beyond anything else in my experience.
But what about weekends? That said, I do find Mussorgsky the more original, rougher and less polished voice. Boris Godunov is a stunning work.
I'm sure watching ballet has it's benefits for some people, but I don't like watching ballet, so, therefore, I don't see any benefits it would have for me. The music is all I care about at the end of the day.
Quote from: Mirror Image on July 05, 2016, 08:01:39 AM
I'm sure watching ballet has it's benefits for some people, but I don't like watching ballet, so, therefore, I don't see any benefits it would have for me. The music is all I care about at the end of the day.
If you ever visit New York during winter, John, I'll buy you a ticket to Nutcracker. As Balanchine himself said, if you don't like the dancing you can close your eyes and enjoy a live concert.
Quote from: (poco) Sforzando on July 05, 2016, 08:05:24 AM
If you ever visit New York during winter, John, I'll buy you a ticket to Nutcracker. As Balanchine himself said, if you don't like the dancing you can close your eyes and enjoy a live concert.
That would be great. I mean I'm not opposed to seeing a ballet of course. I guess this is simply my Brucknerian logic acting up on me again. ;)
Symphony No.4
1812
Sleeping Beauty
Piano Concerto
Romeo and Juliet
As a five year-old, the 1812 Overture was my big favorite. I'd act out the whole scenerio :).
Quote from: Rons_talking on July 13, 2016, 09:57:31 AM
Symphony No.4
1812
Sleeping Beauty
Piano Concerto
Romeo and Juliet
As a five year-old, the 1812 Overture was my big favorite. I'd act out the whole scenerio :).
A five-year-old acting out the battle of Borodino? Both sides? That's some impressive and, mathematically speaking, extensive acting ;D
Sarge
Piano Trio
Pathétique
Symphony No. 5
Piano Concerto No. 2
Violin Concerto
Quote from: Keep Going on December 01, 2016, 09:20:51 AM
Piano Trio
Pathétique
Symphony No. 5
Piano Concerto No. 2
Violin Concerto
Nice to see the love for the
Pf Trio.
Symphony no. 1
Symphony no. 3
Francesca da Rimini
Violin Concerto
Piano Trio
Fifth Symphony (of course)
Piano trio (Tchaikovsky's best chamber piece)
Romeo and Juliet
Piano concerto 1
Symphony 1 or Symphony 2 or Francesca da Rimini
Tchaikovsky's more popular works have lost some of their magic to me due to overexposure, so nowadays I find myself overall preferring his lesser-known works. Here's my current list:
Symphony no. 6
Romeo and Juliet
Piano Concerto no. 2
Souvenir de Florence
Piano Trio
Honorable mentions: Symphony no. 1, Manfred Symphony, Piano Concerto no. 1
Time for a new list, mostly stage works.
Sleeping Beauty
Nutcracker
Pique dame
Cherevichki
Violin concerto
If you ask me what are his main masterpieces, I will tell that:
1. Nutcracker
2. Pique dame
3. Symphonies 4,6, Manfred.
But my favorite one:
1. Symphony no.1.
2. Piano concerto No.2
I must tell that some compositions of Tchaikovsky that are popular in the west are not well known in Russia. For example Overture 1812 year: it is difficult to find meloman in Russia who know this work. And out of Russia it is very popular. But operas of Tchaikovsky of course are known better in Russia.
Quote from: Dima on May 01, 2020, 07:32:11 AM
I must tell that some compositions of Tchaikovsky that are popular in the west are not well known in Russia. For example Overture 1812 year: it is difficult to find meloman in Russia who know this work. And out of Russia it is very popular. But operas of Tchaikovsky of course are known better in Russia.
One year I visited Paris on Bastille Day, and what do I hear walking down the boulevard but someone with their windows open, playing 1812 as loud as possible! I don't think they knew their French history ;D
Quote from: Brian on June 24, 2016, 07:58:56 AM
Hmmmm.
Serenade for Strings
Symphony No. 4
Symphony No. 5
Piano Concerto No. 2 (original/uncut)
Sleeping Beauty
Honorable mentions: Dumky for solo piano, Souvenir de Florence in the string sextet version
Four years later, the only change I would make to this list of five is replacing Symphony No. 5 with Orchestral Suite No. 3 and changing the second honorable mention to Orchestral Suite No. 2.
Quote from: Florestan on June 25, 2016, 01:16:56 PM
PC 1
VC
Symphonies 1 and 5
SQ 2
Capriccio Italien
Serenade for Strings
Four years later, I'm still perfectly happy with this list.
Just in case, here's an alternative one:
Nutcracker (complete ballet, not the suites)
Swan Lake
Six Pieces for Piano op. 51
Hamlet (overture and incidental music)
Romeo and Juliet overture
Here's mine, from 40 years ago, when I used to listen to this stuff.
Symphony 6 (I remember annoying the neighbours playing it very loud on a balcony)
Symphony little Russian (very jolly)
PC 3 played by Gilels (the fast bits would have me dancing round the room)
Roméo and Juliette (I used to play this on loop)
Manfred (except I kept scratching the LP.)
Quote from: Mandryka on May 01, 2020, 07:55:50 AM
Here's mine, from 40 years ago, when I used to listen to this stuff.
Some people age badly. >:D
If one day Tchaikovsky's music will leave me cold then that will be the day I died. ;)
My 5 favourite Tchaikovsky works 40 years ago: none.
My 5 favourite Tchaikovsky works now: none.
:-[
Quote from: ritter on May 01, 2020, 08:12:02 AM
My 5 favourite Tchaikovsky works 40 years ago: none.
My 5 favourite Tchaikovsky works now: none.
:-[
You were already dead 40 years ago. >:D
Quote from: Jo498 on June 24, 2016, 11:32:06 AM
top 5
Souvenir de Florence
6th symphony
1st symphony
1st piano concerto
String Serenade
Today I might replace the 1st symphony with the 3rd string quartet and/or Souvenirs with the 1st string quartet. The string quartets are really underrated pieces. And while I am still not really familiar with the operas (despite having the two famous ones on my shelves) I think one Ballett should be included but I have a hard time deciding between them.
40 years ago I probably knew exactly one piece by PIT, namely the suite or another 1 LP side worth of Nutcracker excerpts that made up the B-side of "Peter and the Wolf". A little later I might even have seen a cartoon nutcracker with a little more music. About 33 years ago, the 1812 Ouverture, the Capriccio Italien, the first piano concerto were among the first classical pieces that really got me interested in classical music. I still like the b flat minor piano concerto but don't care for the shorter potpourri pieces.
Quote from: Jo498 on May 01, 2020, 08:55:34 AM
The string quartets are really underrated pieces.
+1.
Quotedon't care for the shorter potpourri pieces.
What do you mean by that?
Leaving the symphonies out:
Piano Trio
Souvenir de Florence (sextet version)
Piano Concerto no. 2
Swan Lake
The Voyevode
Symphony No. 5
Symphony No. 6
Piano Trio
Piano Concerto No. 2
Violin Concerto
I never got all that into Tchaikovsky, something just never clicked with me. Couldn't tell you what it is. That being said I can definitely name 5 pieces of his that I enjoy:
Piano Concerto No.1
Violin Concerto
Rococo Variations
Symphony No.5
Romeo & Juliet
The first piano concerto is a favorite of mine when I go through my "romantic piano" phases, easily several times a year.
Quote from: Florestan on May 01, 2020, 08:59:07 AM
What do you mean by that?
Capriccio italien, Marche Slave, 1812, maybe another one I forgot. (I guess only the Capriccio italien is really a potpourri I loved them at 14 years old but don't care for them anymore. I never really got into the more serious programmatic pieces either although I like Francesca da Rimini and I often think I should give Manfred more serious listening.
Quote from: Jo498 on May 01, 2020, 01:28:25 PM
Capriccio italien, Marche Slave, 1812, maybe another one I forgot. (I guess only the Capriccio italien is really a potpourri I loved them at 14 years old but don't care for them anymore. I never really got into the more serious programmatic pieces either although I like Francesca da Rimini and I often think I should give Manfred more serious listening.
Thanks. Well, I guess Tchaikovsky's music is really for people much older than 14, although if at 14 one doesn't like his music one is a hopeless case.
Quote from: ritter on May 01, 2020, 08:12:02 AM
My 5 favourite Tchaikovsky works 40 years ago: none.
My 5 favourite Tchaikovsky works now: none.
:-[
Pretty much how I feel, Rafael. I used to have great affection for his music when I started seriously listening to classical music more than a decade ago. Now, I can't even make it through 10 minutes of anything he wrote. Strange how tastes change over time and, yes, Andrei they do change. ;)
Quote from: Mirror Image on May 02, 2020, 07:24:26 AM
Strange how tastes change over time and, yes, Andrei they do change. ;)
Oh, I know. My favorite composer 30 years ago was Beethoven. Now he's not even in top 5.
Quote from: Florestan on May 02, 2020, 07:59:17 AM
Oh, I know. My favorite composer 30 years ago was Beethoven. Now he's not even in top 5.
I know a composer that was a favorite of yours 30 years ago and still one, Franz Schubert. Would this be accurate?
There is actually not a lot of music I dislike or rather that I don't much care about anymore that I loved 30 years ago. I don't think that stuff like Capriccio italien was ever intended to be more than a fun potboiler and this explains both its appeal to newbies (melodic, colorful, "dance-like") and the fact that it can also fall out of favor quickly. It's not so simple, of course. The features mentioned are also true for Dvorak's Slavonic dances ((also favorites when I was about 15-16) and while they are not my daily or maybe not even yearly fare, I'd much rather listen to them than to e.g. Capriccio italien or Marche slave or (to name another early favorite) Grieg's Peer Gynt suites.
Quote from: Mirror Image on May 02, 2020, 08:02:10 AM
I know a composer that was a favorite of yours 30 years ago and still one, Franz Schubert. Would this be accurate?
Yes.
Quote from: Jo498 on May 02, 2020, 08:41:27 AM
There is actually not a lot of music I dislike or rather that I don't much care about anymore that I loved 30 years ago. I don't think that stuff like Capriccio italien was ever intended to be more than a fun potboiler and this explains both its appeal to newbies (melodic, colorful, "dance-like") and the fact that it can also fall out of favor quickly. It's not so simple, of course. The features mentioned are also true for Dvorak's Slavonic dances ((also favorites when I was about 15-16) and while they are not my daily or maybe not even yearly fare, I'd much rather listen to them than to e.g. Capriccio italien or Marche slave or (to name another early favorite) Grieg's Peer Gynt suites.
I agree with you on this one. My entryway to classical music was through stuff like 1812, Capriccio italien, Capriccio espagnole, Carnival of the Animals, Kaiserwalzer. And I don't dislike them now or look down on them. They're meant to be fun and they are fun.
(But yes...the Slavonic Dances are better ;) )
My mind's choice:
Piano Trio
Symphony No. 6
Symphony No. 5
The Sleeping Beauty
The Queen of Spades
My heart's choice:
Piano Trio
Symphony No. 1
Symphony No. 5
Symphony No. 6
Kanareyka Romance op. 25 No. 4
My heart's singular movements choice:
Piano Trio: Pezzo elegiaco
Symphony No. 1: Adagio cantabile ma non tanto
Symphony No. 4: Andantino in modo di canzona
The Snow Maiden: Monologue of Frost
String Quartet No. 1: Andante cantabile
Quote from: mszczuj on May 08, 2020, 06:07:51 AM
My mind's choice:
Piano Trio
Symphony No. 6
Symphony No. 5
The Sleeping Beauty
The Queen of Spades
My heart's choice:
Piano Trio
Symphony No. 1
Symphony No. 5
Symphony No. 6
Kanareyka Romance op. 25 No. 4
My heart's singular movements choice:
Piano Trio: Pezzo elegiaco
Symphony No. 1: Adagio cantabile ma non tanto
Symphony No. 4: Andantino in modo di canzona
The Snow Maiden: Monologue of Frost
String Quartet No. 1: Andante cantabile
Nice post, excellent choices.
I suppose I'd say:
The a minor pf trio
Souvenir de Florence
The e minor Symphony
Евгений Онегин
Пиковая дама
and the Francesca da Rimini symphonic fantasia
Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on May 08, 2020, 07:16:38 AM
I suppose I'd say:
The a minor pf trio
Souvenir de Florence
The e minor Symphony
Евгений Онегин
Пиковая дама
and the Francesca da Rimini symphonic fantasia
8)
1. Piano Sonata (Both)
2. The Maid of Orleans (plus other operas)
3. The Snow Maiden
4. The Seasons
5. Symphony 6
Piano Concerto no. 2
Piano Trio
Souvenir de Florence (sextet version)
Symphony no. 1 Winter Daydreams
The Voyeveda
Great as they are, I have suffered a bit from overexposure to his most popular works.