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The Music Room => General Classical Music Discussion => Topic started by: ComposerOfAvantGarde on August 17, 2016, 10:36:26 PM

Title: Greatest French composer since Messiaen dis is tru sorrynotsorry
Post by: ComposerOfAvantGarde on August 17, 2016, 10:36:26 PM
It Boulez yea? Discuss dat
Title: Re: Greatest French composer since Messiaen dis is tru sorrynotsorry
Post by: amw on August 17, 2016, 10:39:16 PM
Messiaen died in 1992. I'm trying to think of some good 23-year-old French composers but turning up blank so far.
Title: Re: Greatest French composer since Messiaen dis is tru sorrynotsorry
Post by: ComposerOfAvantGarde on August 17, 2016, 10:53:17 PM
Every composition Boulez composed since 1992
Title: Re: Greatest French composer since Messiaen dis is tru sorrynotsorry
Post by: Mandryka on August 18, 2016, 01:32:15 AM
Quote from: jessop on August 17, 2016, 10:36:26 PM
It Boulez yea? Discuss dat

Luc Ferrari. In my opinion there's a natural beauty about his music which he has more consistently than Boulez. Everything flows organically and logically more consistently than in Boulez. I personally find myself more unable to stop listening, more drawn in, more often than with Boulez.

And in a sense he's more visionary than Boulez.

I know Xenakis was Greek, but he was French by nature.
Title: Re: Greatest French composer since Messiaen dis is tru sorrynotsorry
Post by: ComposerOfAvantGarde on August 18, 2016, 01:57:14 AM
Quote from: Mandryka on August 18, 2016, 01:32:15 AM
Luc Ferrari. In my opinion there's a natural beauty about his music which he has more consistently than Boulez. Everything flows organically and logically more consistently than in Boulez. I personally find myself more unable to stop listening, more drawn in, more often than with Boulez.

And in a sense he's more visionary than Boulez.

I know Xenakis was Greek, but he was French by nature.
I do love French music and I understand what you mean about the flow of Luc Ferrari's music. It is always a pleasure to know other people enjoy his music. :)
Title: Re: Greatest French composer since Messiaen dis is tru sorrynotsorry
Post by: Monsieur Croche on August 18, 2016, 02:13:45 AM
Ahhhh, Merde! Yet another greatest post.

Seriously, you expect a mere guess, no matter how well-informed, as to some younger composer really still at the very beginning of their career? Well good luck with that!

This to simply make those who don't know of him aware:
Christophe Bertrand (1981-2010) composed some brilliant music, clearly showing a keen ear, and a ready depth of grasp of contemporary vocabulary. He was a severe manic-depressive. His death ruled more than likely a suicide from an overdose of medications while in one of those swings to the pit of depression.

What pieces we have from him are often quite literally brilliant, highly fluid writing with a canny sureness, but I doubt anyone would rank him the greatest simply because he did not live long enough to create a larger body of work from which to assess 'great.'

His works though, are far beyond the usual youthful, tentatively formative in that they have such a high degree of clearness of purpose, execution, and full command of the craft.

Scales, for large ensemble. (2009)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OLLamxVwAT0

https://www.youtube.com/v/OLLamxVwAT0

Now... I'm thinking at least in this moment to pass by the next ten to twenty 'Greatest' questions posted, and let the kids have at it ;-)


Best regards.
Title: Re: Greatest French composer since Messiaen dis is tru sorrynotsorry
Post by: (poco) Sforzando on August 18, 2016, 03:03:25 AM
Quote from: Mandryka on August 18, 2016, 01:32:15 AM
Luc Ferrari. In my opinion there's a natural beauty about his music which he has more consistently than Boulez. Everything flows organically and logically more consistently than in Boulez. I personally find myself more unable to stop listening, more drawn in, more often than with Boulez.

And in a sense he's more visionary than Boulez.

I know Xenakis was Greek, but he was French by nature.

I don't know Ferrari. What of his would you recommend?

Without being too literal about the chronology, I would have named Jean Barraqué. His Séquence for soprano and six instruments is utterly exquisite. The Piano Sonata is a nut I have yet to crack.
Title: Re: Greatest French composer since Messiaen dis is tru sorrynotsorry
Post by: Spineur on August 18, 2016, 03:08:45 AM
Ces superlatifs me fatiguent.
Pascal Dusapin a composé des operas pas mal du tout
Title: Re: Greatest French composer since Messiaen dis is tru sorrynotsorry
Post by: Monsieur Croche on August 18, 2016, 03:11:17 AM
Quote from: Spineur on August 18, 2016, 03:08:45 AM
Ces superlatifs me fatiguent.

^^^Certainment!

Moi, j'ai assez ;-)
Title: Re: Greatest French composer since Messiaen dis is tru sorrynotsorry
Post by: Mandryka on August 18, 2016, 03:20:43 AM
Quote from: (poco) Sforzando on August 18, 2016, 03:03:25 AM
I don't know Ferrari. What of his would you recommend?

Without being too literal about the chronology, I would have named Jean Barraqué. His Séquence for soprano and six instruments is utterly exquisite. The Piano Sonata is a nut I have yet to crack.

Presque Rien I suppose. Barraqué is an interesting case because he didn't leave very much music unfortunately, the only piece I listen to often is the clarinet concerto. The piano sonata is an early piece, I seem to remember he had a bit of an ambiguous relation with it (I'll try to find the thing I read where he talks it down later - until I do be warned that this could be a figment of my imagination) 
Title: Re: Greatest French composer since Messiaen dis is tru sorrynotsorry
Post by: Mandryka on August 18, 2016, 03:21:58 AM
Quote from: Monsieur Croche on August 18, 2016, 03:11:17 AM
^^^Certainment!

Moi, j'ai assez ;-)

Et moi, j'en ai assez.
Title: Re: Greatest French composer since Messiaen dis is tru sorrynotsorry
Post by: Karl Henning on August 18, 2016, 05:14:30 AM
Quote from: jessop on August 17, 2016, 10:53:17 PM
Every composition Boulez composed since 1992

What, both of them?
Title: Re: Greatest French composer since Messiaen dis is tru sorrynotsorry
Post by: ComposerOfAvantGarde on August 18, 2016, 05:23:11 AM
I love how even though this thread is essentially just a joke thread, there are a number of interesting and informative posts. Just goes to show that there are always things to be learnt at GMG no matter what silly claims might be made by some of the members here.
Title: Re: Greatest French composer since Messiaen dis is tru sorrynotsorry
Post by: Mirror Image on August 18, 2016, 06:19:45 AM
My vote goes to Dutilleux. Definitely would never consider Boulez a great composer.
Title: Re: Greatest French composer since Messiaen dis is tru sorrynotsorry
Post by: nathanb on August 18, 2016, 06:24:45 AM
I hope Christophe Bertrand's music gets some more attention. I've been thoroughly impressed by the works of his that have popped up on various compilations in my possession: Aus, Sanh, and Dikha so far.
Title: Re: Greatest French composer since Messiaen dis is tru sorrynotsorry
Post by: amw on August 18, 2016, 06:32:21 AM
I wish there'd been more Christophe Bertrand. :/
Title: Re: Greatest French composer since Messiaen dis is tru sorrynotsorry
Post by: Mandryka on August 18, 2016, 08:23:08 AM
Quote from: amw on August 18, 2016, 06:32:21 AM
I wish there'd been more Christophe Bertrand. :/

I managed to find a couple of clarinet pieces on spotify - Sanh and Aus. I agree it's nice music, with tension and release and sounds and textures that I can't remember hearing before.
Title: Re: Greatest French composer since Messiaen dis is tru sorrynotsorry
Post by: Cato on August 18, 2016, 09:14:57 AM
For your consideration:

http://www.alexandredesplat.net/index.php (http://www.alexandredesplat.net/index.php)

He is the youngest I can think of!

Title: Re: Greatest French composer since Messiaen dis is tru sorrynotsorry
Post by: Spineur on August 18, 2016, 09:18:58 AM
Quote from: Mirror Image on August 18, 2016, 06:19:45 AM
My vote goes to Dutilleux. Definitely would never consider Boulez a great composer.
This spring was the 100th anniversary of his birth...
Title: Re: Greatest French composer since Messiaen dis is tru sorrynotsorry
Post by: Brian on August 18, 2016, 09:21:16 AM
Not sure this is meaningful, since I have such dubious taste in living composers, but my favorite active French composer is probably Thierry Escaich. He's done a lot of stuff I enjoy - Nuits hallucinées, some cool chamber music with winds, and of course he's a very accomplished organist; there's even a recording of his organ improvisations. Haven't listened to that yet. Maybe I should!
Title: Re: Greatest French composer since Messiaen dis is tru sorrynotsorry
Post by: Pat B on August 18, 2016, 09:46:31 AM
Quote from: Monsieur Croche on August 18, 2016, 02:13:45 AM
Scales, for large ensemble. (2009)

I took the OP as a joke and planned to respond in kind, but I rather liked this piece. Merci.
Title: Re: Greatest French composer since Messiaen dis is tru sorrynotsorry
Post by: Rinaldo on August 18, 2016, 10:49:41 AM
Quote from: Cato on August 18, 2016, 09:14:57 AM
For your consideration:

http://www.alexandredesplat.net/index.php (http://www.alexandredesplat.net/index.php)

He is the youngest I can think of!

Desplat is good! Love his Birth score.

Anyway, the anwswer is Grisey, obvs. ::) kthxbai!
Title: Re: Greatest French composer since Messiaen dis is tru sorrynotsorry
Post by: SimonNZ on August 18, 2016, 04:27:41 PM
I'm loving all the Christophe Bertrand love here. On *cough* another forum just recently I was suggesting him as one of the recent still relatively unknowns whose stock I'd be willing to bet will rise and rise with time.

Taking the OP more seriously than it was intended I'd note that Philippe Manoury and Tristan Murail now have an impressive body of work behind them and are still going strong.
Title: Re: Greatest French composer since Messiaen dis is tru sorrynotsorry
Post by: ComposerOfAvantGarde on August 18, 2016, 04:33:43 PM
Philippe Manoury is one of my favourites currently working. Also, Bruno Mantovani has composed a bunch of great tunes. 8)
Title: Re: Greatest French composer since Messiaen dis is tru sorrynotsorry
Post by: Monsieur Croche on August 18, 2016, 04:40:22 PM
Quote from: Rinaldo on August 18, 2016, 10:49:41 AM
Desplat is good! Love his Birth score.

I have it on good authority that Desplat is either a pseudonym, or that under a pseudonym, he has composed chamber music, string quartets, etc. which are in a very different and fully contemporary classical mode, and these are highly regarded within those circles. The film scores are very-well done, and written while wearing a completely different hat.

The integrity of the source did not yield when I tried -- aggressively -- to pull that other name out of him -- i.e. he respected this composer's wish to keep his anonymity in keeping the two very different kind of activities well apart.
Title: Re: Greatest French composer since Messiaen dis is tru sorrynotsorry
Post by: ComposerOfAvantGarde on August 18, 2016, 04:46:49 PM
Quote from: Monsieur Croche on August 18, 2016, 04:40:22 PM
I have it on good authority that Desplat is either a pseudonym, or that under a pseudonym, he has composesed chamber music, string quartets, etc. which are in a very different and fully contemporary classical mode, and these are highly regarded within those circles. The film scores are very-well done, and written while wearing a completely different hat.

The integrity of the source did not yield when I tried -- aggressively -- to pull that other name out of him -- i.e. he respected this composer's wish to keep his anonymity in keeping the two very different kind of activities well apart.
This is very very intriguing. Desplat is a highly skilled film composer with the ability to compose in a broad variety of styles including a much more unique style as evident in his soundtracks for Wes Anderson films.......but I haven't heard his non-film music if what you say is true........more investigation is needed, evidently.
Title: Re: Greatest French composer since Messiaen dis is tru sorrynotsorry
Post by: Cato on August 18, 2016, 05:12:26 PM
Quote from: jessop on August 18, 2016, 04:46:49 PM
This is very very intriguing. Desplat is a highly skilled film composer with the ability to compose in a broad variety of styles including a much more unique style as evident in his soundtracks for Wes Anderson films.......but I haven't heard his non-film music if what you say is true........more investigation is needed, evidently.

Are there any candidates for the second identity?  $:)
Title: Re: Greatest French composer since Messiaen dis is tru sorrynotsorry
Post by: Mirror Image on August 18, 2016, 06:59:24 PM
Quote from: Spineur on August 18, 2016, 09:18:58 AM
This spring was the 100th anniversary of his birth...

It sure was and there's many box sets available for purchase. There's also been many new recordings appear throughout the year so far.