There are many countries which use their own homegrown record companies to promote their native composers. Amongst the smaller European countries Denmark, Finland, Sweden, (to a lesser extent) Norway obviously stand out in this respect. The Dutch appear to be much more reticent!
I have an Et'Cetera CD which contains rather aged versions of Hendrik Andriessen's worthy four symphonies and a Donemus boxed set of Matthijs Vermeulen's wierd seven symphonies in acceptable but certainly not particularly outstanding performances. I have also managed to pick up Willem Pijper's Symphony No.2 from Donemus and the Symphony No.3 from BBC Music Legends in a 1961 recording by Pierre Monteux. CPO is apparently planning a Julius Rontgen cycle although on the evidence of the first instalment(Symphony No.3) I am not overly excited at the prospect! A composer whose symphonies I have heard good reports of is Henk Badings. Badings did himself no favours by his apparent co-operation with the Nazi occupying forces during the Second World War.
What these-and other-Dutch composers clearly need is more championship by record companies, orchestras and conductors. I wonder why they have not had such promotion to date?
Chandos did release quite a lot of recordings of Dutch music in the 90s.
Yes, Chandos did release a couple of CDs of Diepenbrock-short orchestral pieces and orchestral songs-and there is a CD containing three Vermeulen symphonies conducted(I think) by Rozhdestvensky which I have not heard. No Pijper, Badings or orchestral Andriessen however. I also seem to remember from over forty years ago hearing some music by Bernard Wagenaar which impressed at the time.
I am just somewhat surprised that the fine Dutch orchestras do not seem to be performing and exporting such music in the way that the Scandinavian regional orchestras-I am thinking Lahti, Odense, Bergen, Trondheim, Norkopping-promote their native music.
They also released music by Dopper, Verhulst, Hol and Voormolen. Don't sell them short!
And the Diependbrock releases (now a mid-priced two-fer) were just superb!
composers clearly need is more championship by record companies, orchestras and conductors. I wonder why they have not had such promotion to date?
The same can be said about : late 19th -early 20th century French composers. There's more than Ravel and Debussy, Poulenc and Saint Saens.
- CPO is really brave in unearthing some forgotten artists, but still, even in Germany more can be done.
- the US : apart from the odd exception, Naxos is recording American music with Russian orchestras!
- Brazil, Venezuela, Spain, Rumania, Bulgaria, Turkey, Greece, Croatia....there's a stagering amount of music that never get's performed. Of course I do realise that not everything is worth conserving - History is a cruel but usually rather fair judge- but a little bit of courage and curiosity would help to give us a broader view on musical history.
But -unknown- foreign music does not travel well ..and does not bring in money.
Quote from: sound67 on August 12, 2007, 05:53:40 AM
They also released music by Dopper, Verhulst, Hol and Voormolen. Don't sell them short!
And the Diependbrock releases (now a mid-priced two-fer) were just superb!
You are quite correct. I apologise to Chandos for the slight! I had forgotten the two CDs of symphonies by Cornelis Dopper; rather strange since I actually have both of them! They cannot have made much impression, I fear. The Voormolen I do not know. As for Verhulst and Hol-both were writing in the 19th century and I was, primarily, thinking of 20th century composers.
I do agree with you about the quality of the Diepenbrock I have heard.
A lot of the Dutch violin concertos from the 20th century are recorded and released commercially: Hans Kox 1-3, Tristan Keuris 1-2, Hendrik Andriessen, Oscar van Hemel 1-3, Tera de Marez Oyens, Guus Janssen, Willem Jeths, Otto Ketting, Robert de Roos, Willem Pijper, Jan van Vlijmen, Ton de Leeuw 2, Sem Dresden, Julius Roentgen 1-2 and a few others. I think thats quite good.
And I have to support pjme's posting: Especially the South and Middle American classical music is recorded worse and also very, very hard to find and get here in Europe. Several major works are impossible to hear due to missing recordings! (Bulgaria or Croatia on the other hand promote their music quite well. Check the national music information centre!)
Quote from: violinconcerto on August 12, 2007, 11:32:28 PM
A lot of the Dutch violin concertos from the 20th century are recorded and released commercially: Hans Kox 1-3, Tristan Keuris 1-2, Hendrik Andriessen, Oscar van Hemel 1-3, Tera de Marez Oyens, Guus Janssen, Willem Jeths, Otto Ketting, Robert de Roos, Willem Pijper, Jan van Vlijmen, Ton de Leeuw 2, Sem Dresden, Julius Roentgen 1-2 and a few others. I think thats quite good.
And I have to support pjme's posting: Especially the South and Middle American classical music is recorded worse and also very, very hard to find and get here in Europe. Several major works are impossible to hear due to missing recordings! (Bulgaria or Croatia on the other hand promote their music quite well. Check the national music information centre!)
Good gracious-that is a formidable list of Dutch violin concerti! I must confess to having never heard of most of these composers!
I have now found the Hendrik Andriessen on the Donemus label (and also Pijper's Cello Concerto). I cannot find the Pijper Violin Concerto however. Do you, by any chance, have a label reference?
Quote from: Dundonnell on August 14, 2007, 02:26:01 PM
I cannot find the Pijper Violin Concerto however. Do you, by any chance, have a label reference?
The Pijper is a record release many years ago. I also only have a copy from the LP from a friend, so I cannot say the label. But I saw the LP a few times at ebay.com. So if you keep your eyes open there, you may find it.
While I'm not as familiar with more modern composers (as in, more recent than 1830 for me!!), I do have two symphonies by the Dutchman Jan van Gilse, his symphonies #2 (from 1902) and #4 (1910-1915). #4 is titled Eindrücke der Natur. van Gilse was a student of Humperdinck, which I suppose makes him a 2nd generation stem from Richard Wagner. Neither of these symphonies sound very much like Wagner at all, though.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jan_van_Gilse
I kinda like #2, a three-movement work that starts out a little on the pastoral side, with horns introducing melodic passages. In my own opinion, this symphony has several themes that border just on the edge of being really fantastic tunes. If, like me, you find you have a hard time with the "harshness" of the symphonic sound of the 20th century, you might be pleasantly surprised by this symphony. I know I was. Not among my favourite symphonies, but I thought it was very worthwhile.
The Symphony #4 I have a harder time with. This one does some serious stuff that would never have appeared in the 19th century, not even the very very end of it. I freely admit that I do not like practically all music termed "classical" from the entire 20th century, and that sadly includes this symphony. I don't hate it ... well, I hate it sometimes. But I never really like it either, except when it tries to bring up a melody. Then, it's another of those things where the themes are pleasant, but never quite "oh wow, I'll be remembering that one a year from now!". Hmm... I have the 4th Symphony playing again as I write this. Yeah yeah, that's not really listening, I know. But I don't dislike it nearly as much as I did the last time I heard it. It's rambly, and I don't like the REAL 20th century stuff it does, like bizarre harmonies and abnormal ... stuff. and .. weird... yuck.... well, I just don't like that stuff. But when it's not doing that, and sounds 19th century, I like it.
Okay, well, just wanted to say a few words. Sorry it's not very helpful or informative, but if you're like me and have a harder time with a lot of 20th century music, you might like these. Start with the 2nd, and then try that 4th, which has like one foot in the 19th and two feet in the 20th. Yes, three feet. It's a 20th century symphony, of course it's deformed!! >:D
Quote from: Dundonnell on August 12, 2007, 05:00:26 AM
Yes, Chandos did release a couple of CDs of Diepenbrock-short orchestral pieces and orchestral songs-and there is a CD containing three Vermeulen symphonies conducted(I think) by Rozhdestvensky which I have not heard. No Pijper, Badings or orchestral Andriessen however. I also seem to remember from over forty years ago hearing some music by Bernard Wagenaar which impressed at the time.
I am just somewhat surprised that the fine Dutch orchestras do not seem to be performing and exporting such music in the way that the Scandinavian regional orchestras-I am thinking Lahti, Odense, Bergen, Trondheim, Norkopping-promote their native music.
Remember however that Brilliant licensed the Diepenbrock pieces on two cd's, for the ridiculous price of 6 euro's!
A bargain for these fantastic recordings from Chandos.
And from what I understand is that all Dutch music realeased on Chandos, will be licensed by Brilliant.
My knowledge of Dutch music is neither broad nor deep but the first three Vermeulen symphonies I have heard and find them amazing - they really deserve to be more widely known.
Splendid news for those of us of an enquiring disposition(or insane completist collect obscure music) disposition!
CPO-that ever-enterprising company-has committed itself to recording the complete orchestral works of Henk Badings(1907-87), the innovative Dutch composer whose reputation far outweighs his current exposure-which until now has been virtually zero! The first CD with his Symphonies Nos.2, 7 and 12 is to be released in a few days time played by the Janacek Philharmonic Orchestra of Ostrava(who??) conducted by David Porcelijn. Badings merits a full page in Mark Morris's 'Dictionary of Twentieth Century Composers'.
I had no idea that his symphonies extended into double figures!
Ah, another neglected composer at last sees the light of day! Who knows, maybe we could interest CPO in Havergal Brian yet!
I just ordered the Badings......
Quote from: Maciek on August 17, 2007, 11:56:03 AM
My knowledge of Dutch music is neither broad nor deep but the first three Vermeulen symphonies I have heard and find them amazing - they really deserve to be more widely known.
Vermeulen seems to be a kind of Dutch
Charles Ives (the Ives of the
Robert Browning Overture) or
Karl Hartmann.
You used to be able to get the score and a recording of selected works by Dutch composers from a group called Donemus. I have therefore - from the 1970's - a record of
Vermeulen's Second Symphony and the accompanying score.
Is Donemus still around and offering CD's with scores?
Quote from: Cato on November 15, 2007, 01:24:18 PM
Vermeulen seems to be a kind of Dutch Charles Ives (the Ives of the Robert Browning Overture) or Karl Hartmann.
You used to be able to get the score and a recording of selected works by Dutch composers from a group called Donemus. I have therefore - from the 1970's - a record of Vermeulen's Second Symphony and the accompanying score.
Is Donemus still around and offering CD's with scores?
Donemus is definitely alive and kicking, see
here (http://www.donemus.nl/). A friend of mine ordered Louis Andriessen's
Workers Union from them last summer, and it wasn't all that expensive, either. (Don't know if CD's come with the scores, though.)
--Bruce
Quote from: bhodges on November 15, 2007, 01:31:37 PM
Donemus is definitely alive and kicking, see here (http://www.donemus.nl/). A friend of mine ordered Louis Andriessen's Workers Union from them last summer, and it wasn't all that expensive, either. (Don't know if CD's come with the scores, though.)
--Bruce
Thanks for the link! Their font, however, is very difficult to read, at least on my computer here at school.
And yes, they still offer scores, but not apparently in combination with CD's.
For example, you can buy
Vermeulen's First Symphony for c. 40 Euros. And you can see the opening pages of the scores:
http://catalogus.donemus.nl/minisis/files/m039197.pdf
Quote from: JoshLilly on August 17, 2007, 11:25:34 AM
While I'm not as familiar with more modern composers (as in, more recent than 1830 for me!!), I do have two symphonies by the Dutchman Jan van Gilse, his symphonies #2 (from 1902) and #4 (1910-1915). #4 is titled Eindrücke der Natur. van Gilse was a student of Humperdinck, which I suppose makes him a 2nd generation stem from Richard Wagner. Neither of these symphonies sound very much like Wagner at all, though.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jan_van_Gilse
I kinda like #2, a three-movement work that starts out a little on the pastoral side, with horns introducing melodic passages. In my own opinion, this symphony has several themes that border just on the edge of being really fantastic tunes. If, like me, you find you have a hard time with the "harshness" of the symphonic sound of the 20th century, you might be pleasantly surprised by this symphony. I know I was. Not among my favourite symphonies, but I thought it was very worthwhile.
The Symphony #4 I have a harder time with. This one does some serious stuff that would never have appeared in the 19th century, not even the very very end of it. I freely admit that I do not like practically all music termed "classical" from the entire 20th century, and that sadly includes this symphony. I don't hate it ... well, I hate it sometimes. But I never really like it either, except when it tries to bring up a melody. Then, it's another of those things where the themes are pleasant, but never quite "oh wow, I'll be remembering that one a year from now!". Hmm... I have the 4th Symphony playing again as I write this. Yeah yeah, that's not really listening, I know. But I don't dislike it nearly as much as I did the last time I heard it. It's rambly, and I don't like the REAL 20th century stuff it does, like bizarre harmonies and abnormal ... stuff. and .. weird... yuck.... well, I just don't like that stuff. But when it's not doing that, and sounds 19th century, I like it.
Okay, well, just wanted to say a few words. Sorry it's not very helpful or informative, but if you're like me and have a harder time with a lot of 20th century music, you might like these. Start with the 2nd, and then try that 4th, which has like one foot in the 19th and two feet in the 20th. Yes, three feet. It's a 20th century symphony, of course it's deformed!! >:D
Apparently CPO intends to record all five of van Gilse's symphonies as well! The company further intend to record some of the music of van Gilse's bitter enemy/rival Willem Pijper.
So-at last-some proper recognition is being given to the Dutch music of the first half of the 20th Century.
I used to think that being an orchestral conductor must be one of the best jobs in the world. Now I am beginning to think that being the repertoire manager for a record company like CPO must rank pretty high up too!
May Sweelinck be considered a Dutch composer?
If he does, then he was the greatest, with no doubt. Just listen to his Fantasia Chromatica, or his Ricercar, for organ, played by Serge Schoonbroodt.
There's a whole handful of Andriessen's.
Konrad Boehmer usually gets called a Dutch composer, even though he was born in Germany.
Dick Raaijmakers is as close to the top of the heap as one could wish for.
Leo Smit.
Cruising around the Internet, I was struck with how few Dutch composers I know.
Quote from: val on November 17, 2007, 01:04:04 AM
May Sweelinck be considered a Dutch composer?
If he does, then he was the greatest, with no doubt. Just listen to his Fantasia Chromatica, or his Ricercar, for organ, played by Serge Schoonbroodt.
Yeah he Dutch and I agree the greatest. He is the Jimmy Hendrix of organ music with his psychedelic works and (must have) infuenced many composers to come.
Note that I dont know any other Dutch composers and Im Dutch
I ran into a series on Dutch music on Operashare recently, which I have been grabbing over the past few days. I haven't listened to much of it yet, but so far one obscurity has made an impression.
Daniël de Lange (1841-1918)
Symphony in C minor, Op.4 (c.1865)
I like this one a lot. It is quite one-dimensional and without much going on under the surface, but the themes are engaging and some even memorable. The way they are written seems to rely on quite simplistic repetition or "stock" note progressions, which sound very "gratifying", but come across as a little cheap (I wish that I could explain the technical side of this more usefully). If this isn't a problem, then the symphony as a whole is very enjoyable, with lots of grand rumblings and surprisingly engaging themes - plus the movements tend to keep up their pace without many drops in momentum (which from a great composer is to enhance the music, but weaker composers seem to resort to them when they cannot continue a theme's development, or meld two sections together naturally).
A good example of the plusses and minuses of this symphony is in the scherzo, which has a neat theme - pondorous, yet grand - but the composer doesn't seem to be able to do much with it, so at 0:50 is almost literally repeated briefly, but on higher notes, then peters out. But the music isn't crippled by this, and immediately after this there is a nice swirling tune to bridge the gap between the first theme and the development. While very romantic in sound, the symphony has a few classical leanings, such as the 8:20 min+ mark in the fourth movement, which sounds deliberately quite classical, probably to create a sense of occasion. I can't compare it to any other composer, it's not really like simplified Brahms (not that he took a cue from Brahms, due to its earlier date of writing). Once or twice the tone in the first movement comes a little close to Elgar's "Nimrod" from the Enigma Variations, and the freeness of the melody also has slight resemblence to (although being NOTHING as good as) Tchaikovsky, but the similarities to both are only passing.
Overall on an objective basis, it's neglected for good reason. It's quite simplistic and has no "greatness" to it, but I personally find it enjoyable, and it vindicates searching through these "lost" composers trying to find works of interest. Here is the scherzo (http://www.mediafire.com/?8lytpgxd3dm) for anybody interested. If somebody likes it I can upload the rest for them.
Quote from: Lethe on January 27, 2008, 07:20:52 AM
I ran into a series on Dutch music on Operashare recently, which I have been grabbing over the past few days. I haven't listened to much of it yet, but so far one obscurity has made an impression.
Daniël de Lange (1841-1918)
Symphony in C minor, Op.4 (c.1865)
I like this one a lot. It is quite one-dimensional and without much going on under the surface, but the themes are engaging and some even memorable. The way they are written seems to rely on quite simplistic repetition or "stock" note progressions, which sound very "gratifying", but come across as a little cheap (I wish that I could explain the technical side of this more usefully). If this isn't a problem, then the symphony as a whole is very enjoyable, with lots of grand rumblings and surprisingly engaging themes - plus the movements tend to keep up their pace without many drops in momentum (which from a great composer is to enhance the music, but weaker composers seem to resort to them when they cannot continue a theme's development, or meld two sections together naturally).
A good example of the plusses and minuses of this symphony is in the scherzo, which has a neat theme - pondorous, yet grand - but the composer doesn't seem to be able to do much with it, so at 0:50 is almost literally repeated briefly, but on higher notes, then peters out. But the music isn't crippled by this, and immediately after this there is a nice swirling tune to bridge the gap between the first theme and the development. While very romantic in sound, the symphony has a few classical leanings, such as the 8:20 min+ mark in the fourth movement, which sounds deliberately quite classical, probably to create a sense of occasion. I can't compare it to any other composer, it's not really like simplified Brahms (not that he took a cue from Brahms, due to its earlier date of writing). Once or twice the tone in the first movement comes a little close to Elgar's "Nimrod" from the Enigma Variations, and the freeness of the melody also has slight resemblence to (although being NOTHING as good as) Tchaikovsky, but the similarities to both are only passing.
Overall on an objective basis, it's neglected for good reason. It's quite simplistic and has no "greatness" to it, but I personally find it enjoyable, and it vindicates searching through these "lost" composers trying to find works of interest. Here is the scherzo (http://www.mediafire.com/?8lytpgxd3dm) for anybody interested. If somebody likes it I can upload the rest for them.
I find the Scherzo to be very fine, and would love it Sarah, if you would give me the rest.
Do you know by any chance the label on which it is recorded, or the orchestra that is performing it.
I never heard of the fellow....
Quote from: Harry on January 27, 2008, 07:35:00 AM
I find the Scherzo to be very fine, and would love it Sarah, if you would give me the rest.
Do you know by any chance the label on which it is recorded, or the orchestra that is performing it.
I never heard of the fellow....
If you haven't heard of him then he must be obscure ;D There seems to be an appreciation society for him here (http://www.danieldelange.nl/) (all in Dutch, of course). I doubt there have been any commercial CDs of his music released - this symphony was taped from a radio broadcast. I'll begin uploading the other movements - should be done in 20 mins :)
The information that came with the file:
Dutch Radio Symphony Orchestra
conducted by Jac van Steen
Studio recording Dutch Radio 4, ca. 1997
Quote from: Lethe on January 27, 2008, 07:37:46 AM
If you haven't heard of him then he must be obscure ;D There seems to be an appreciation society for him here (http://www.danieldelange.nl/) (all in Dutch, of course). I doubt there have been any commercial CDs of his music released - this symphony was taped from a radio broadcast. I'll begin uploading the other movements - should be done in 20 mins :)
The information that came with the file:
Dutch Radio Symphony Orchestra
conducted by Jac van Steen
Studio recording Dutch Radio 4, ca. 1997
I owe you one Sarah, thanks.... :)
Quote from: Lethe on January 27, 2008, 07:37:46 AM
If you haven't heard of him then he must be obscure ;D There seems to be an appreciation society for him here (http://www.danieldelange.nl/) (all in Dutch, of course). I doubt there have been any commercial CDs of his music released - this symphony was taped from a radio broadcast. I'll begin uploading the other movements - should be done in 20 mins :)
The information that came with the file:
Dutch Radio Symphony Orchestra
conducted by Jac van Steen
Studio recording Dutch Radio 4, ca. 1997
Well this site is only about a choir with his name but precious little about the works he composed.
Will look further into the matter.
There are recordings, from the first Symphony and chamber works, plus a vocal one.
See link, in Dutch.
I ordered the Sterling CD with the first Symphony.
http://www.stichtingdelange.nl/images/Content/Folder%20Stichting%20De%20Lange.pdf
Daniël de Lange was the teacher of Matthijs Vermeulen, so - he does live on in a sense...
Quote from: Harry on January 27, 2008, 07:51:11 AM
There are recordings, from the first Symphony and chamber works, plus a vocal one.
See link, in Dutch.
I ordered the Sterling CD with the first Symphony.
http://www.stichtingdelange.nl/images/Content/Folder%20Stichting%20De%20Lange.pdf
Ah, thanks. Nice to see that there's at least one CD available. I admit, I didn't look very hard - him not having any mention on the Dutch Wikipedia, let alone his own page, put me off :D
Quote from: Jezetha on January 27, 2008, 07:54:56 AM
Daniël de Lange was the teacher of Matthijs Vermeulen, so - he does live on in a sense...
Coolie - it's nice to always find out new ways in which composers are associated to each other - this link does seem rather surprising, given Vermeulen's style :)
Quote from: Lethe on January 27, 2008, 07:58:41 AM
Ah, thanks. Nice to see that there's at least one CD available. I admit, I didn't look very hard - him not having any mention on the Dutch Wikipedia, let alone his own page, put me off :D
Coolie - it's nice to always find out new ways in which composers are associated to each other - this link does seem rather surprising, given Vermeulen's style :)
There is mention on the Dutch wikipedia site Sarah, and his own page no less.
And there are three cd's with music of this composer.
http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dani%C3%ABl_de_Lange
Quote from: Lethe on January 27, 2008, 07:58:41 AM
Coolie - it's nice to always find out new ways in which composers are associated to each other - this link does seem rather surprising, given Vermeulen's style :)
Vermeulen was an individualist. And his contact with the composer Alphons Diepenbrock was more important. Also - he attended a lot of concerts at the Concertgebouw, where he heard all the latest music (Debussy, Mahler et al). He was voracious, but in the end everything came out as 'Vermeulen'...
I can't believe I didn't find that page! :) I should've probably directly searched WP instead of used Google...
Jezetha - Operashare also had Vermeulen's 2nd symphony, which is nice. I haven't listened to it closely yet, but it's near the top of my "to listen" pile.
Upload finished (restating the name and work in case anybody missed my first post).
Daniël de Lange (1841-1918)
Symphony in C minor, Op.4 (c.1865)
I. Allegro molto moderato (http://www.mediafire.com/?btmxvdby9xt)
II. Andante con moto (http://www.mediafire.com/?e2ncmkczny2)
III. Scherzo (Molto vivace) (http://www.mediafire.com/?8lytpgxd3dm)
IV. Allegro molto vivace (http://www.mediafire.com/?07rdntidmpm)
And one of his brother Samuel...
http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samuel_de_Lange_jr.
Quote from: Lethe on January 27, 2008, 08:08:47 AM
I can't believe I didn't find that page! :) I should've probably directly searched WP instead of used Google...
Jezetha - Operashare also had Vermeulen's 2nd symphony, which is nice. I haven't listened to it closely yet, but it's near the top of my "to listen" pile.
Upload finished (restating the name and work in case anybody missed my first post).
Daniël de Lange (1841-1918)
Symphony in C minor, Op.4 (c.1865)
I. Allegro molto moderato (http://www.mediafire.com/?btmxvdby9xt)
II. Andante con moto (http://www.mediafire.com/?e2ncmkczny2)
III. Scherzo (Molto vivace) (http://www.mediafire.com/?8lytpgxd3dm)
IV. Allegro molto vivace (http://www.mediafire.com/?07rdntidmpm)
Capital, thank you, will listen to this one carefully.
Does anyone here love the swashbuckling drama and ultra-rich orchestrations of Richard Strauss?
If so, try the Dutchman: Johann Wagenaar.
Personally I love my Chailly disc of his overtures and assorted other small orchestral pieces:
(http://www.arkivmusic.com/graphics/covers/non-muze/full/143203.jpg)
Quote from: johnQpublic on January 27, 2008, 02:06:16 PM
Does anyone here love the swashbuckling drama and ultra-rich orchestrations of Richard Strauss?
If so, try the Dutchman: Johann Wagenaar.
Personally I love my Chailly disc of his overtures and assorted other small orchestral pieces:
(http://www.arkivmusic.com/graphics/covers/non-muze/full/143203.jpg)
Yes, I like Richard Strauss (Zarathustra, Don Juan, Till Eulenspiegel, Heldenleben...)
and I like Johan Wagenaar's very colourful orchestral pieces... I have that disc.
Sorry about another big post (there may be further ones)... I have a large folder of mp3s from Operashare, and the stand-out ones are compelling me to write about them...
Cornelis Dopper (1870-1939)
Symphony No.1, "Diana" (1895, rev.1921)
Termed "dance symphony" by the composer, this work began as a ballet, and that is more or less what it still sounds like in symphony form. A better term may have been "suite", but that's not important. The work itself is light and springy, and excellent mood music. A few fanfares smattered around (a very Hollywood view of ancient Greece/Rome :P), especially in the first movement where they form something resembling a main theme. First movement builds up organically with woodwind fluttering, horn calls, noble/mysterious violin theme building into a little tizzy - all the stock effects, really. It's pulled off well, and creates a fine noble/naturalistic sounding setting.
The craftsman aspect overall is very good, even though it's his first symphony. The transitions and themes aren't as clunky as the previous composer I reviewed, and the music is also more varied, with far more interesting things happening outside of the violin/brass section - much better orchestration. There are also appealing melodies present, although they aren't really developed as in a structured symphony - it's freeform atmospheric music, which is especially delightful in the second movement's dance, though there seem to be a few reoccurring themes throughout some of the movements such as the horn call (maybe a little like Berlioz's idée fixe). Overall the symphony feels very youthful and Romantic, and not entirely similar to his later works (having already heard the 7th symphony while writing this). That is as much an asset as a minus point - the music is a delight, and where there are slightly miscalculated (or banal) parts, you forgive the young composer.
Symphony No.7, "Zuiderzee" (1917)
This is apparently the piece performed before Matthijs Vermeulen caused the scene which put him out of favour with much of the establishment of the time. While it's conservative, it's not THAT derivative. From the start it's attractive, appealing, and has the mark of a composer confident in every aspect of their craft. The formal problems of the 1st aren't an issue in this work (I can't speak for the ones in between, which I haven't heard), and his flowing and lyrical style is not at all inhibited by having to better structure this symphony. Melodies in surging string themes, which are then intertwined by other lines from the orchestra - it's the stuff you expect from great composers, but sometimes miss in obscure ones. This isn't the case with Dopper - he's a good melodist and orchestator, his themes building and combining very successfully.
The second movement is delightful, titled Humoreske, it harks back to pre-Scherzo Menuettos - a bit of bouncy fun. The end of this lilting, march-style movement finishes quite bombastically, something which will occur again at the end of the fourth movement. I can see this putting people off, but with such a talented composer, I find that they fit in well, rather than banging and crashing through otherwise attractive passages of music. I'm not sure how familiar he was with Tchaikovsky, but the march-like louder moments sound a bit like the third movement of the Pathétique. I found the slow third movement to be slightly less distinguished (but will give it many more listens before I give up on it), but this is more than made up for by the finale, which is exceptional.
It begins confidently with a hushed, scuttering tune on the strings soon interrupted by some uneasy sounding swirls from the woodwinds and percussion, before combining with them into a gusting tune, then as quickly as that arrived, a full orchestra theme makes its appearance with brilliant brass accompanying it. To me, this perfectly demonstrates what is so fun, enjoyable, and just plain "great" about symphonic music. It sounds absolutely wonderful, and contains a wealth of ideas. The second half... hehe! This is what will make people either love it or want to vomit. The hilarious peal of brass at 4:48 acts as a brief foreshadow to a high octane finale. The finale is so OTT that is is hard to take it seriously - I just listen to it grinning like an idiot. It's so tuneful, wonderful and foot-stamping fun. I'll upload the movement to show what I mean more effectively than my rather inadequate words: IV. Finale (http://www.mediafire.com/?f10ajyjzgxm) No time to upload the rest today, but I will tomorrow.
I am going to buy CDs by this composer ASAP (I see Chandos has released a few symphony discs, how handy), these symphonies made a big impression on me - the amount of ideas expertly constructed (in the 7th, at least) makes this music advocate itself very well. It's remarkable that Soviet bombast can be considered infinitely more attractive than this old-school imperialist European bombast 0:)
I have the Dopper recordings on Chandos, and find the music to be quite wonderful. It was a long time since I heard them, so I will will locate it, and give it a spin! ;D
Quote from: Jezetha on January 27, 2008, 02:12:30 PM
Yes, I like Richard Strauss (Zarathustra, Don Juan, Till Eulenspiegel, Heldenleben...) and I like Johan Wagenaar's very colourful orchestral pieces... I have that disc.
Somehow I missed this one, will remedy that ASAP. :)
Cornelis Dopper (1870-1939)
Symphony No.7, "Zuiderzee" (1917)
I. Allegro animato (http://www.mediafire.com/?bmjxs74yx12)
II. Humoreske (http://www.mediafire.com/?1hyxfztxdxy)
III. Andante rubato (http://www.mediafire.com/?fu22dhhm1zc)
IV. Finale (http://www.mediafire.com/?f10ajyjzgxm)
Dutch Radio Symphony Orchestra
Conductor: David Porcelijn
Recorded: December 1990, Vredenburg, Utrecht
Sorry about how long it took. This composer will appeal to many people who enjoy 20th century tonal music, including, perhaps Shostakovich fans.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louis_Andriessen
!!!!!!!!
Howard
Quote from: hautbois on January 28, 2008, 07:50:50 AM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louis_Andriessen
!!!!!!!!
Howard
Andriessen I always thought difficult to approach. Most of his compositions do not appeal to me.
I absolutely love Andriessen's work!
I caught some of "De Staat" once on the radio and had to immediately come home and look it up. Lo and behold, the original recording seems to be long OOP (Reinbert De Leeuw/Schoenberg Ensemble), but, I found it on iTunes, w/ De Leeuw and the Los Angeles Philharmonic, and really, really enjoy that recording. Not least because it also has Tabula Rasa, and Andriessen's wild "Racconto dall'Inferno", sung engagingly by Cristina Zavalloni.
Andiressen writes very interesting, intelligent music, akin to the minimalism of Reich, Riley, Adams. There are other composers I feel he is related to as well, but can't quite put my finger on it. He uses synths, voices, and sometimes electric guitar for color, and there is a distinctive space in his writing and a significant (but tasteful) brass presence that I notice. Sorry, I don't know how to best describe, but his writing is very unique.
Apparently he has been a significant influence to other Dutch contemporary composers as well, I realized that some things I heard in "De Staat" have also shown up in the work of Johan De Meij, another Dutch composer I love. The beginning of De Staat is similar to the ending of the 2nd mvmt of De Meij's 1st Symphony, and the middle (around 18 min) in De Staat is nearly identical to the latter part of the 2nd mvmt of De Meij's 3rd Symphony.
I would like to hear more Andriessen, and another Dutch composer I want to hear more of is Henk Badings, I really like his piece "The Arrival".
Quote from: Greta on January 28, 2008, 04:30:09 PM
I absolutely love Andriessen's work!
I caught some of "De Staat" once on the radio and had to immediately come home and look it up. Lo and behold, the original recording seems to be long OOP (Reinbert De Leeuw/Schoenberg Ensemble), but, I found it on iTunes, w/ De Leeuw and the Los Angeles Philharmonic, and really, really enjoy that recording. Not least because it also has Tabula Rasa, and Andriessen's wild "Racconto dall'Inferno", sung engagingly by Cristina Zavalloni.
Andiressen writes very interesting, intelligent music, akin to the minimalism of Reich, Riley, Adams. There are other composers I feel he is related to as well, but can't quite put my finger on it. He uses synths, voices, and sometimes electric guitar for color, and there is a distinctive space in his writing and a significant (but tasteful) brass presence that I notice. Sorry, I don't know how to best describe, but his writing is very unique.
Apparently he has been a significant influence to other Dutch contemporary composers as well, I realized that some things I heard in "De Staat" have also shown up in the work of Johan De Meij, another Dutch composer I love. The beginning of De Staat is similar to the ending of the 2nd mvmt of De Meij's 1st Symphony, and the middle (around 18 min) in De Staat is nearly identical to the latter part of the 2nd mvmt of De Meij's 3rd Symphony.
I would like to hear more Andriessen, and another Dutch composer I want to hear more of is Henk Badings, I really like his piece "The Arrival".
What I like about you is your intrinsic knowledge of composers and their compositions. And the hunger you have for them. Still the modernism of Andriessen is too much for my nerves, but you are still young and beautiful, and can cope I guess. :)
I bought the CPO disc of Badings Orchestral works, not too long ago released, and his music is better for me to approach, and after some hearings begin to like what he wrote.
So there you are.
Being beautiful helps? No wonder a lot of us struggles with this modern stuff.
Quote from: erato on January 28, 2008, 11:57:03 PM
Being beautiful helps? No wonder a lot of us struggles with this modern stuff.
But it is nicely put right?
You put the cream on top, I think! ;D
I know only a few works by Rudolf Escher ( 1912-1980) . "Hymne du Grand Meaulnes" (1950-51) may well be his orchestral magnum opus : eric Vloermans calls it a " a song of controled extasy" ( in The essential guide to Dutch Music. 100 composers and their work. Amsterdam University Press/ Muziekgroep Nederland).
Le Grand Meaulnes is a famous novel by Alain Fournier - it's still quite popular . From Wikipedia :
Le Grand Meaulnes is the only novel by French author Alain-Fournier. Fifteen year old François Seurel narrates the story of his relationship with seventeen year old Augustin Meaulnes as Meaulnes searches for his lost love, Yvonne de Galais. Impulsive, reckless and heroic, Meaulnes embodies the romantic ideal, the search for the unobtainable, and the mysterious world between childhood and adulthood. It is considered one of the great works of French literature.
Escher's work manages to embody this world of longing in a great stream of endless melodies ....It is also an hommage to the Sologne region, where the novel is set.
Alas, no commercial recording is available ,I'm afraid. It was briefly available on a Teleac disc (Rotterdam PO / Hans Vonk) - as part of a TV series + book on Dutch music.
Much music remains to be discovered : Jan Ingenhoven ( "who had a fundamental disdain of accepted rules"!),Leon Orthel, Daniel Ruyneman,Henriette Bosmans, Marius Flothuis,Sem Dresden...all belong to the late 19th-early 20th century; Ton De Leeuw, Tristan Keuris, Joep Straesser, Paul Termos, Theo Loevendie, Jan Van Vlijmen....
I am delighted that this thread seems to have taken on a new lease of life!
In the period since I started the thread I have had the opportunity to buy the CPO CD containing the three symphonies of Henk Badings
(Nos. 2, 7 and 12), the three cello concerti by Julius Rontgen and also Rontgen's "Aus Goethe's Faust". I was impressed by the Badings-his reputation as a substantial and serious composer, now finally receiving the attention he deserves in his native country after years of neglect(for political rather than musical reasons, it appears), is certainly justified. I look forward to the further issues in CPO's ongoing series(what an amazingly prolific company CPO is and how seriously it takes its self-assumed responsibility to give us complete cycles of the music of forgotten composers!).
The two Rontgen CDs have made much more of an impact on me than the 3rd symphony(issued about a year ago now). One could not claim that Rontgen was a progressive or advanced composer(at least from the evidence available to me) but his music is extremely engaging and tuneful in an old-fashioned sort of way. His great friendship with Grieg certainly hugely influenced his music.
Having earlier been a bit dismissive of Dopper I had best go back and give him another go!
Quote from: Dundonnell on January 29, 2008, 04:18:52 PM
I am delighted that this thread seems to have taken on a new lease of life!
In the period since I started the thread I have had the opportunity to buy the CPO CD containing the three symphonies of Henk Badings
(Nos. 2, 7 and 12), the three cello concerti by Julius Rontgen and also Rontgen's "Aus Goethe's Faust". I was impressed by the Badings-his reputation as a substantial and serious composer, now finally receiving the attention he deserves in his native country after years of neglect(for political rather than musical reasons, it appears), is certainly justified. I look forward to the further issues in CPO's ongoing series(what an amazingly prolific company CPO is and how seriously it takes its self-assumed responsibility to give us complete cycles of the music of forgotten composers!).
The two Rontgen CDs have made much more of an impact on me than the 3rd symphony(issued about a year ago now). One could not claim that Rontgen was a progressive or advanced composer(at least from the evidence available to me) but his music is extremely engaging and tuneful in an old-fashioned sort of way. His great friendship with Grieg certainly hugely influenced his music.
Having earlier been a bit dismissive of Dopper I had best go back and give him another go!
I have been quite impressed by Rontgens cello concertoes and the double chamber music disc on Etcetera (and have mentioned that in other threads). The Badings series I have already made a note of and will be looking into.
What about Willem Pijper? I remember having his string quartets on and Olympia CD on my wish list but never coming around to buy it before Olympia went belly-up. Anybody know that disc? And any chance of seing that on a reissue label?
Quote from: erato on January 29, 2008, 10:51:34 PM
What about Willem Pijper? I remember having his string quartets on and Olympia CD on my wish list but never coming around to buy it before Olympia went belly-up. Anybody know that disc? And any chance of seing that on a reissue label?
Brilliant already released a few things from Olympia, but the problem is that the rights were rather randomly sold, so lets hope Brilliant did do the buying concerning the works from Pijper, and many others, for that label released many unknown works from obscure composers that had something to tell.
When I met up with fellow member Christo last August, he made me listen to some late symphonies by Röntgen. They were very surprising, structurally very free, almost improvised. They didn't want to impress you. The symphonies sounded like a colourful thinking aloud. All I remember from them is their atmosphere.
Quote from: Jezetha on January 30, 2008, 12:17:11 AM
When I met up with fellow member Christo last August, he made me listen to some late symphonies by Röntgen. They were very surprising, structurally very free, almost improvised. They didn't want to impress you. The symphonies sounded like a colourful thinking aloud. All I remember from them is their atmosphere.
Christo....yes I remember the genial fellow, was in, and then went out, not to be seen for how many months now. :P
Anyway, Rontgen is on my hunting list. I am glad that CPO will record loads of his music!
Quote from: erato on January 29, 2008, 10:51:34 PM
What about Willem Pijper? I remember having his string quartets on and Olympia CD on my wish list but never coming around to buy it before Olympia went belly-up. Anybody know that disc? And any chance of seing that on a reissue label?
I ran into his first symphony on Operashare, and it was a good listen, although I don't have much basis for comparison - I could rehost it later if you haven't heard it.
Quote from: Lethe on January 30, 2008, 12:28:32 AM
I ran into his first symphony on Operashare, and it was a good listen, although I don't have much basis for comparison - I could rehost it later if you haven't heard it.
Please Sarah! :)
I second Harry - a long time ago I read an article by Matthijs Vermeulen, called (iirc) 'De schreeuw van Pijper' ('Pijper's Cry'), in which he describes the overwhelming impression the opening of Pijper's First symphony made. It would be nice to be able to listen to it after more than 25 years...
Johan
P.S. Harry: Christo is very busy - he teaches at a 'Hogeschool' and is/was busy writing an essay for a book about twentieth-century music and religion. Apart from that he is married, with two young children... You get the picture.
Quote from: Jezetha on January 30, 2008, 12:42:59 AM
I second Harry - a long time ago I read an article by Matthijs Vermeulen, called (iirc) 'De schreeuw van Pijper' ('Pijper's Cry'), in which he describes the overwhelming impression the opening of Pijper's First symphony made. It would be nice to be able to listen to it after more than 25 years...
Johan
P.S. Harry: Christo is very busy - he teaches at a 'Hogeschool' and is/was busy writing an essay for a book about twentieth-century music and religion. Apart from that he is married, with two young children... You get the picture.
Absolutely! Well I did not know that, thought he was sitting in his comfy study, pipe in hand, remote control at his side, and playing music all day.
Little did I know. In my defense I can say, he never told me...... :)
Quote from: Harry on January 30, 2008, 12:53:43 AM
Absolutely! Well I did not know that, thought he was sitting in his comfy study, pipe in hand, remote control at his side, and playing music all day.
Little did I know. In my defense I can say, he never told me...... :)
I got to know him in 1995 in London, at a Brian concert. He was making a radio program for the VPRO about Brian (he worked as a free-lance journalist then, apart from teaching). Christo has made many, with a special emphasis on Nordic and Baltic composers, many of whom he knows personally. It was sheer luck I met him on this board, after we lost touch...
Quote from: Jezetha on January 30, 2008, 01:00:10 AM
I got to know him in 1995 in London, at a Brian concert. He was making a radio program for the VPRO about Brian (he worked as a free-lance journalist then, apart from teaching). Christo has made many, with a special emphasis on Nordic and Baltic composers, many of whom he knows personally.
That I knew, and that is one of the reasons why I miss his valuable contributions, allthough he teased me quite a bit with my imaginary cottage in Drenthe. He made it believe as if I still dug my own turf, and made my special Jenever every other weekend.....
Had a few good laughs about that. ;D
Quote from: Harry on January 30, 2008, 01:05:12 AM
That I knew, and that is one of the reasons why I miss his valuable contributions, allthough he teased me quite a bit with my imaginary cottage in Drenthe. He made it believe as if I still dug my own turf, and made my special Jenever every other weekend.....
Had a few good laughs about that. ;D
That's him alright! ;D
Mediafire was being a pain at the time, so I put it on Rapidshare. Zipped, so no single track sampling, but IMO better to do it all in one due to their silly download limits: Pijper - Symphony No.1 (http://rapidshare.com/files/87805882/Pijper_-_Symphony_No.1__Dufallo__Rotterdam_PO__Donemus_LP_.rar.html) Performer details included in a txt file.
I also uploaded this for someone outside of GMG yesterday, and it may as well be posted here (it's on topic, after all :)):
Bernard Zweers (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernard_Zweers)
Symphony No.3 "Aan mijn vaderland" (To my fatherland)
I. In the Dutch forests (http://www.mediafire.com/?1lmxj1nbned)
II. In the country (http://www.mediafire.com/?a1o4bxstcmd)
III. On the beach and at sea (http://www.mediafire.com/?5u9yen3lvjy)
IV. To the capital (http://www.mediafire.com/?0zqiigdpcgn)
Residentie Orchestra The Hague
Hans Vonk
Recorded in 1979
Apparently from an OOP Olympia CD
Thanks again Sarah, but I see not how to download Pijper, the link does not work......
Eek! The filename is a bit long, but the link works fine for me. I'll try Mediafire now that it's working again, it'll mean other people won't have to deal with RS's dl limits.
Quote from: Harry on January 30, 2008, 04:39:34 AM
Thanks again Sarah, but I see not how to download Pijper, the link does not work......
You have to copy-paste the link into the box (you know, where the web address is), then remove the html-extension, and then
Enter.
Oh, I almost forgot - thanks, Lethe!
O, dear, not a bit complicated, O, no..........
Pijper - Symphony No.1 (http://www.mediafire.com/?5et2kbvuczn) (Mediafire)
Quote from: Jezetha on January 30, 2008, 04:48:51 AM
Oh, I almost forgot - thanks, Lethe!
Hehe, I'm just mindlessly regurgitating Operashare links - shame that it's not accessable to the people not lucky enough to sign up before it went private. I also have these files, I can periodically (my upload is slow) host any especially wanted ones:
(http://img444.imageshack.us/img444/6759/animation1pj5.gif)
They are highly unorganised and messy atm.
Just listened to the opening of Pijper's First - I think Vermeulen must have been writing about his Second symphony - this opening is Mahlerian in the extreme, the Mahler of the Wunderhorn symphonies. 'Pijper's Cry' isn't here... I'll listen to the whole symphony later in the evening.
(Btw - the name 'Pijper' sounds a bit like 'Piper')
Hi,
"Pijper's cry" is the very opening of the majestic second symphony. Purists will find much to criticise in this work I suppose- I think it is one of the glories of Dutch symphonic writing! First of all, it is very "un-Dutch"...in its unbridled, almost orgiastic enthusiasm. Stomping rythms, Spanish/South American sultry influennces ( habanera), luxurious & extravagant instrumentation ( 3 pianos, 8 horns, organ, mandolins, percussion...) .It is in every way the opposite of restraint, cool balance à la Mondriaan or protestant ascetism. Pijper packs the whole experience into roughly 20 minutes ! ..and leaves the listener knocked out . great!
Pijper's 3 symphonies would fit on a single CD .
Peter
Quote from: Lethe on January 27, 2008, 07:47:01 PM
Sorry about another big post (there may be further ones)... I have a large folder of mp3s from Operashare, and the stand-out ones are compelling me to write about them...
Cornelis Dopper (1870-1939)
Symphony No.1, "Diana" (1895, rev.1921)
Termed "dance symphony" by the composer, this work began as a ballet, and that is more or less what it still sounds like in symphony form. A better term may have been "suite", but that's not important. The work itself is light and springy, and excellent mood music. A few fanfares smattered around (a very Hollywood view of ancient Greece/Rome :P), especially in the first movement where they form something resembling a main theme. First movement builds up organically with woodwind fluttering, horn calls, noble/mysterious violin theme building into a little tizzy - all the stock effects, really. It's pulled off well, and creates a fine noble/naturalistic sounding setting.
The craftsman aspect overall is very good, even though it's his first symphony. The transitions and themes aren't as clunky as the previous composer I reviewed, and the music is also more varied, with far more interesting things happening outside of the violin/brass section - much better orchestration. There are also appealing melodies present, although they aren't really developed as in a structured symphony - it's freeform atmospheric music, which is especially delightful in the second movement's dance, though there seem to be a few reoccurring themes throughout some of the movements such as the horn call (maybe a little like Berlioz's idée fixe). Overall the symphony feels very youthful and Romantic, and not entirely similar to his later works (having already heard the 7th symphony while writing this). That is as much an asset as a minus point - the music is a delight, and where there are slightly miscalculated (or banal) parts, you forgive the young composer.
Symphony No.7, "Zuiderzee" (1917)
This is apparently the piece performed before Matthijs Vermeulen caused the scene which put him out of favour with much of the establishment of the time. While it's conservative, it's not THAT derivative. From the start it's attractive, appealing, and has the mark of a composer confident in every aspect of their craft. The formal problems of the 1st aren't an issue in this work (I can't speak for the ones in between, which I haven't heard), and his flowing and lyrical style is not at all inhibited by having to better structure this symphony. Melodies in surging string themes, which are then intertwined by other lines from the orchestra - it's the stuff you expect from great composers, but sometimes miss in obscure ones. This isn't the case with Dopper - he's a good melodist and orchestator, his themes building and combining very successfully.
The second movement is delightful, titled Humoreske, it harks back to pre-Scherzo Menuettos - a bit of bouncy fun. The end of this lilting, march-style movement finishes quite bombastically, something which will occur again at the end of the fourth movement. I can see this putting people off, but with such a talented composer, I find that they fit in well, rather than banging and crashing through otherwise attractive passages of music. I'm not sure how familiar he was with Tchaikovsky, but the march-like louder moments sound a bit like the third movement of the Pathétique. I found the slow third movement to be slightly less distinguished (but will give it many more listens before I give up on it), but this is more than made up for by the finale, which is exceptional.
It begins confidently with a hushed, scuttering tune on the strings soon interrupted by some uneasy sounding swirls from the woodwinds and percussion, before combining with them into a gusting tune, then as quickly as that arrived, a full orchestra theme makes its appearance with brilliant brass accompanying it. To me, this perfectly demonstrates what is so fun, enjoyable, and just plain "great" about symphonic music. It sounds absolutely wonderful, and contains a wealth of ideas. The second half... hehe! This is what will make people either love it or want to vomit. The hilarious peal of brass at 4:48 acts as a brief foreshadow to a high octane finale. The finale is so OTT that is is hard to take it seriously - I just listen to it grinning like an idiot. It's so tuneful, wonderful and foot-stamping fun. I'll upload the movement to show what I mean more effectively than my rather inadequate words: IV. Finale (http://www.mediafire.com/?f10ajyjzgxm) No time to upload the rest today, but I will tomorrow.
I am going to buy CDs by this composer ASAP (I see Chandos has released a few symphony discs, how handy), these symphonies made a big impression on me - the amount of ideas expertly constructed (in the 7th, at least) makes this music advocate itself very well. It's remarkable that Soviet bombast can be considered infinitely more attractive than this old-school imperialist European bombast 0:)
My wife just told me, and proved to me that Dopper is family, of us.
What a coincidence that is huh?
Quote from: Lethe on January 30, 2008, 07:04:09 AM
Pijper - Symphony No.1 (http://www.mediafire.com/?5et2kbvuczn) (Mediafire)
Hehe, I'm just mindlessly regurgitating Operashare links - shame that it's not accessable to the people not lucky enough to sign up before it went private. I also have these files, I can periodically (my upload is slow) host any especially wanted ones:
(http://img444.imageshack.us/img444/6759/animation1pj5.gif)
They are highly unorganised and messy atm.
What a treasure trove it is, yummy. ;D
What a silly, hard-to-navigate and uninformative website! One would have to be really dedicated to find this useful. I hate flash and designers out to prove their cleverness. A straight HTML site with easily accessible information on their recordings may have made me contemplate actually buying something.
I have been away for a while but I am glad that I came across this thread with the great uploads. Thank you very much Lethe. Playing now the 3d Symphony of Zweers 'Aan mijn vaderland'. Great music. Pijper's Pan Symphony will be next. Being Dutch myself, it is nice to discover this music. Be obliged if you can manage some more uploads, Lethe.
I uploaded a bunch of files on the request of a GMG user, and I am reposting the collection here, not expecting it to necessarily be of interest to many people, but on the off-chance that someone else may be interested. These are all broadcasts/OOP CDs from Operashare, which I have reuploaded onto a more friendly host. I'll add the few from previous posts as well, to make them easier to find.
Hendrik Andriessen (1892-1981)
Symphony No.2
I. Fantasia (Quasi adagio) (http://www.mediafire.com/?5mv1y4xjmiy)
II. Pavane (Andante con eleganza) (http://www.mediafire.com/?bmm1vabb1ie)
III. Rondo (Allegretto con spirito) (http://www.mediafire.com/?2995q29jmom)
Alexander Vakoulsky, North-Holland Philharmonic Orchestra (Haarlem)
Radio recording from February 1992, transfer from tape
Variations and fugue on a theme by Johann Kuhnau (http://www.mediafire.com/?1dgjj3vmsbv)
Ferdinand Leitner, Residentie Orchestra The Hague
From an OOP Olympia cd (OCD 507)
Henk Badings (1907-1987)
Symphony No.2
I. Allegro (http://www.mediafire.com/?fnxyyjzes2j)
II. Adagio (http://www.mediafire.com/?22unk2trvxd)
III. Allegro vivace (http://www.mediafire.com/?4uvminuj20v)
Hendrik Schaefer, Dutch Radio Symphony Orchestra
1-3 December 2004, MCO Studio 1, Hilversum
Symphony No.3 (http://www.mediafire.com/?btgmywdmini)
The only info this file had was that it was a "BBC 2007 internet recording".
Symphony No.5
I. Lento - Allegro (http://www.mediafire.com/?4bgxyiczjlt)
II. Scherzo Presto (http://www.mediafire.com/?bg3zymvswbx)
III. Largo (http://www.mediafire.com/?1mwxoigycyt)
IV. Presto (http://www.mediafire.com/?8jheuh0wijx)
Andrew Mogrelia, Residentie Orchestra The Hague
November 1991
Symphonic Prologue (http://www.mediafire.com/?bd0birh2tzf)
Ed Spanjaard, Residentie Orchestra The Hague
6-9 July 1992, Dr. Anton Philipszaal, The Hague
Symphonic Variations (http://www.mediafire.com/?2ywzjns8dpm)
Henrik Schaefer, Dutch Radio Symphony Orchestra
Studio recording, Dutch Radio 4, 2004
Cello Concerto No.2
I. Allegro molto (http://www.mediafire.com/?98fh2nsjdjy)
II. Largo (http://www.mediafire.com/?fjyduzymfpe)
III. Allegro (http://www.mediafire.com/?2cxtpjl0j3w)
Henrik Schaefer (con.), Michael Müller (vnc.), Dutch Radio Chamber Philharmonia
Studio recording, Dutch Radio 4, 2007
Cello Concerto No.2
I. Allegro molto (http://www.mediafire.com/?chrvr9o1pff)
II. Largo (http://www.mediafire.com/?6f7n9uzso5v)
III. Allegro (http://www.mediafire.com/?532aenvmm10)
Eduard van Beinum (con), Carel van Leeuwen Boomkamp (vnc.)
27/03/1941
Johannes Bernardus van Bree (1801–1857)
Overture in E flat major (http://www.mediafire.com/?7m3jwnvluwb)
Lucas Vis, Dutch Radio Philharmonic Orchestra
Radio recording, transfer from tape
Scene for horn and orchestra (http://www.mediafire.com/?6m24ctzm399)
Hermann Breuer (con.), Ab Koster (hn.), Nordwestdeutsche Philharmonie
Digital satellite recording
Fantasie en forme de symphonie
I. Adagio (http://www.mediafire.com/?d09sse4eqmj)
II. Allegro (http://www.mediafire.com/?9cjg4uolmxh)
III. Andante (http://www.mediafire.com/?c5lvbrhvvqb)
IV. Allegro vivace (http://www.mediafire.com/?fv9jji93j3z)
Tjalling Wijnstra, Dutch New Philharmonic Orchestra
6 June 2006 in the Meinards Church, Minnertsga, The Netherlands, Digital satellite recording
Alphons Diepenbrock (1862-1921)
Elektra Suite
I. Andante agitato - Adagio (http://www.mediafire.com/?6vdybntj8wu)
II. Presto - Andantino moderato - Presto (http://www.mediafire.com/?0x9mjzywbxc)
III. Lento - Sostenuto e agitato - Largamente (http://www.mediafire.com/?e5xfnxdys56)
IV. Allegro agitato - Maestoso (http://www.mediafire.com/?dfgn2okjrud)
Hans Vonk, WDR-Sinfonieorchester Köln
Studio recording WDR
Cornelis Dopper (1870-1939)
Symphony No.1 "Diana"
I. Gathering of the Gods in the temple of Diana (http://www.mediafire.com/?8sy0mnumz8j)
II. Ball in the knights castle (http://www.mediafire.com/?5clzgmix0z9)
III. The wandering knight in the wood (http://www.mediafire.com/?bybvy3ltidy)
IV. In the mountain of Venus (http://www.mediafire.com/?4jssl89zdxb)
Jürgen Kussmaul, North Netherlands Orchestra
12 February 2005 in Theatre De Muzeval, Emmen, The Netherlands
Symphony No.7 "Zuiderzee"
I. Allegro animato (http://www.mediafire.com/?bmjxs74yx12)
II. Humoreske (http://www.mediafire.com/?1hyxfztxdxy)
III. Andante rubato (http://www.mediafire.com/?fu22dhhm1zc)
IV. Finale (http://www.mediafire.com/?f10ajyjzgxm)
Dutch Radio Symphony Orchestra
December 1990, Vredenburg, Utrecht
Rudolf Escher (1912-1980)
Musique pour l'esprit en deuil (http://www.mediafire.com/?d9yyc3zm9gg)
Bernard Haitink, Royal Concertgebouw Orchestra
February 25, 2005 in the Concertgebouw, Amsterdam
Passacaglia (http://www.mediafire.com/?6qdgvvc1kxt)
George Benjamin, Royal Concertgebouw Orchestra
October 27, 2006 in the Concertgebouw, Amsterdam
Carel Anton Fodor (1768-1846)
Symphony in C minor
I. Largo - Allegro assai (http://www.mediafire.com/?fryd5bdesbm)
II. Adagio non tanto (http://www.mediafire.com/?10vr0grcbz1)
III. Menuetto (Vivace) (http://www.mediafire.com/?d2jz3jij0b2)
IV. Finale (Vivace agitato) (http://www.mediafire.com/?5itjd5rzidz)
Antal Dorati, Residentie Orchestra The Hague
Recorded in The Hague, 1978, from a long out of print Olympia CD (OCD 501)
Jan van Gilse (1881-1944)
Symphony No.2
I. Andante – Allegro energico (http://www.mediafire.com/?2dilhgbynx0)
II. Intermezzo (Allegro grazioso) (http://www.mediafire.com/?cc38ynenmrd)
III. Finale (Andante molto – Adagio dolente – Andante) (http://www.mediafire.com/?2mmerikd0vq)
Markus Stenz, Royal Concertgebouw Orchestra
January 26, 2007, Concertgebouw, Amsterdam
Hans Henkemans (1913-1995)
Violin Concerto
I. Allegretto moderato - Allegro agitato (http://www.mediafire.com/?5d9mhm9ztbj)
II. Allegro marcato - Tempo di habanera (http://www.mediafire.com/?69s1xdynlp2)
III. Molto adagio (http://www.mediafire.com/?0jbwymnisti)
IV. Allegro (http://www.mediafire.com/?5g3jghdmgb7)
Jaap van Zweden (con.), Liza Ferschtmann (vn.), Dutch Radio Philharmonic Orchestra
September 14, 2007 in Central Studios, Utrecht
Daniël de Lange (1841-1918)
Symphony in C minor, Op.4
I. Allegro molto moderato (http://www.mediafire.com/?btmxvdby9xt)
II. Andante con moto (http://www.mediafire.com/?e2ncmkczny2)
III. Scherzo (Molto vivace) (http://www.mediafire.com/?8lytpgxd3dm)
IV. Allegro molto vivace (http://www.mediafire.com/?07rdntidmpm)
Jac van Steen, Dutch Radio Symphony Orchestra
Studio recording, Dutch Radio 4, ca.1997
Willem Pijper (1894-1947)
Symphony No.1 (http://www.mediafire.com/?5et2kbvuczn)
Richard Dufallo, Rotterdam Philharmonic Orchestra
March 11, 1983, from a Donemus (Dutch Music Information Centre) LP
Bernard Zweers (1854-1924)
Symphony No.3 "Aan mijn vaderland" (To my fatherland)
I. In the Dutch forests (http://www.mediafire.com/?1lmxj1nbned)
II. In the country (http://www.mediafire.com/?a1o4bxstcmd)
III. On the beach and at sea (http://www.mediafire.com/?5u9yen3lvjy)
IV. To the capital (http://www.mediafire.com/?0zqiigdpcgn)
Hans Vonk, Residentie Orchestra The Hague
Recorded in 1979, from an OOP Olympia CD
As I told before but I repeat it gladly before my fellow Forum members, I for one am very glad with your uploads since it fills a large gap in my knowledge and understanding of serious Dutch music. Great work, Lethe!
Sarah, you are a treasure, and I am glad that GMG has such a valuable member that puts her time and effort into giving us so many links, just to make us happy.
We owe you gratitude.
Harry
Thank you very much, Lethe! Great work!
P.S. Just listened to Hendrik Andriessen's 'Kuhnau Variations'. A piece that I heard many years ago and always has stayed with me. Wonderful piece, that any RVW fan would like.
This morning on Espace Musique (French Canadian Classical station), I heard a portion of a Julius Rontgen String Quartet. Unfortunately, looking bad on the music station's playlist, I could not find what string quartet they played, or who were the performers. :(
I really enjoyed what I heard, so this has piqued my curiosity about this composer's chamber music. :)
Good heavens!! I started this thread and then forgot about it(stupid me!). Now I find that Lethe has been so very kind as to post links to an absolutely marvellous selection of Dutch orchestral music. Pijper's 1st Symphony, the Henk Badings, the Dopper, the van Gilse....oh, joy indeed.
Must get busy before I wake up and find that it has all been a dream!!
Many, many thanks!!
I'm not sure how long Mediafire links last, but fortunately you DLing from some should at least keep those ones alive for a while longer :)
Edit:Quote from: Dundonnell on January 29, 2008, 04:18:52 PM
Having earlier been a bit dismissive of Dopper I had best go back and give him another go!
I must also add as a followup that my praise of Dopper's 7th has waned slightly. It is indeed far from "deep", but the sheer sound of the thing is still a joy to behold - like Shostakovich's 5th minus the philosophy/difficulty :P
I have managed to download the Badings, Dopper's 1st symphony and the van Gilse symphonies and other orchestral works.
Unfortunately, however, the last movement of Dopper's 7th, the de Lange and the Zweers all appear to have been removed from Mediafire!
The Pijper 1st Symphony is a RAR file. I am not familiar with this-sorry, bit of a technophobe! Any help?
A rar is a type of zip file, it's pretty standard and you'll probably run into it again in future, so it's worth the small download:
http://www.rarlab.com/download.htm (the top one)
I'll reupload those movements and any others you run into problems with.
Edit: Actually damn! I forgot, my PC is having problems with my external hard drive at the moment, and that is where I have all the files from this thread. I may take a while to sort this out :-X
Quote from: Lethe on April 01, 2008, 02:41:09 PM
A rar is a type of zip file, it's pretty standard and you'll probably run into it again in future, so it's worth the small download:
http://www.rarlab.com/download.htm (the top one)
I'll reupload those movements and any others you run into problems with.
Many thanks for your kindness!!
Quote from: Lethe on April 01, 2008, 02:41:09 PM
Edit: Actually damn! I forgot, my PC is having problems with my external hard drive at the moment, and that is where I have all the files from this thread. I may take a while to sort this out :-X
Found a simple way around this. I rehosted them as the original place I got them from doesn't like its links being posted around (plus Rapidshare sucks! :P), but as I'm not in a position to continue doing that atm, at least the original links are still active:
http://rapidshare.com/files/53809836/Dopper_Symphony_No_7.zip
http://rapidshare.com/files/74756382/Zweers_Symph3.zip
http://rapidshare.com/files/64854708/De_Lange_Symphony.zip
Ok, that seems to be working! I had to join Rapidshare and pay for the downloading but that's a small price to pay!
Incidentally, Etcetera are releasing a CD on April 14th of music by Johan Wagenaar(1862-1941) with the Netherlands Radio Symphony Orchestra under Eri Klas. Should be interesting. Never heard any Wagenaar.
Quote from: Dundonnell on April 01, 2008, 03:02:58 PM
Ok, that seems to be working! I had to join Rapidshare and pay for the downloading but that's a small price to pay!
Hm - I have a Rapidshare account...
The performance of Henk Badings 3rd Symphony broadcast by the BBC and linked in this thread is by the Residentie Orchestra, the Hague conducted by Willem van Otterloo. It was recorded in November 1955.
Just for info'!
Quote from: Dundonnell on April 02, 2008, 01:32:24 PM
The performance of Henk Badings 3rd Symphony broadcast by the BBC and linked in this thread is by the Residentie Orchestra, the Hague conducted by Willem van Otterloo. It was recorded in November 1955.
Actually, it's in the glorious 13 CD box with the 1950-60 recordings under Willem van Otterloo - at present on offer at JPC:
(http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2007/Feb07/Otterloo_CC72142.jpg)
Some other Dutch compositions in this box are:
* Johan WAGENAAR (1862-1941) De Getemde Feeks Op. 25 (Overture) (1906) [6:12] rec. 3 April 1954 + Cyrano de Bergerac Op. 23 (1905) (Overture) [12:15] rec. 3 April 1954
* Alphons DIEPENBROCK (1862-1921) Music to Sophocles' Tragedy
Electra (1919-20) (Symphonic Suite edited by Eduard Reeser1952) [17:36] rec. 8 May 1953
* Léon ORTHEL (1905-1985) Symphony No. 2
Piccola sinfonia Op. 18 (1940) [15:33] rec. Scheveningen, Kurhaus, October 1959*
* Sem DRESDEN (1881-1957) Dansflitsen (1951) [14:17] rec. 8 May 1953
* Hendrik ANDRIESSEN (1892-1981) Variations and Fugue on a Theme of Kuhnau (1935) [11:46] rec. 26 February 1952 + Ricercare (1949) [9:26] rec.5 June 1951
For the Orthel and Dresden pieces, these are the only recordings available, if I'm not mistaken.
An expensive purchase though just for the Dutch pieces!
Quote from: Dundonnell on April 03, 2008, 07:20:46 AM
An expensive purchase though just for the Dutch pieces!
Indeed :D Apparently the rest of the performances are fantastic, though. MusicWeb gave it a real rave review.
Quote from: Dundonnell on April 03, 2008, 07:20:46 AM
An expensive purchase though just for the Dutch pieces!
`It can't be too much if it is for the Dutch'. ;D But I should have writen: "at present on special offer with JPC", as I bought the set there for 20 euros (some 14 GBP or 30 USD), recently. Appearantly it's sold out by now, I couldn't find them anymore with JPC this afternoon.
As about Badings: CPO, the JPC label, started a series with his symphonies - all of them seem to be scheduled - recently, starting with Badings 2, 7, 12. I have it, but didn't find time to play it yet. Reviews tend to be very positive.
(http://www.jpc.de/image/w600/front/0/0761203727223.jpg)
This Etcetera disc is now in the shops:
(http://www.prestoclassical.co.uk/images/records/etceteraktc1326.jpg)
The (former) Dutch Radio SO is conducted by Eri Klas - Janny Zomer (soprano), Ingrid Nissen (oboe),
Johan Wagenaar - Orchestral Works
Levenszomer (orch.)
Sinfonietta (orch.)
Ouverture de Philosophische prinses (orch.)
Elverhoi (orch.)
Aveux de Phèdre ( soprano & orch.)
Larghetto ( oboe & orch.)
Quote from: pjme on April 03, 2008, 12:54:00 PM
This Etcetera disc is now in the shops:
Johan Wagenaar - Orchestral Works
Yes, that's the other surprising new CD I observed, but didn't buy yet. It took me a lot of trouble to find the old Decca CD with Chailly conducting the Concertgebouw Orchestra in a series of these Johan Wagenaar works. The question being, of course, how much extras this new twofer offers, and at which quality.
Well I discovered another surprise which is on my order list already.
Jan van Gilse, (1881-1944)
Symphonies No. 1 & 2.
Netherlands SO/David Porcelijn.
Release date 15-5-2008.
Another Dutch composer of great quality, writing in the late Romantic style, very melodious, and full of good tunes.
They plan to release even more works from him.
After Rontgen and Badings, this is indeed good news!
Quote from: Harry on April 04, 2008, 02:55:43 AM
Well I discovered another surprise which is on my order list already.
Jan van Gilse, (1881-1944) Symphonies No. 1 & 2. Netherlands SO/David Porcelijn. Release date 15-5-2008.
Another Dutch composer of great quality, writing in the late Romantic style, very melodious, and full of good tunes. They plan to release even more works from him. After Rontgen and Badings, this is indeed good news!
Good news indeed! JPC even states that you will have it in two weeks: `Erscheinungstermin: 21.4.2008'
The complete series wil offer the five symphonies (1901, 1903, 1903, 1915 and 1922 respectively) and the later opera `Thijl' (1940) - we all know for its famous
Treurmuziek (funeral music), a Dutch classic for solemn occasions, when Haitink uses to lead the Royal Concertgebouw Orchestra & the whole not-so-royal nation through it. :'( 0:)
Quote from: Christo on April 04, 2008, 03:53:29 AM
Good news indeed! JPC even states that you will have it in two weeks: `Erscheinungstermin: 21.4.2008'
The complete series wil offer the five symphonies (1901, 1903, 1903, 1915 and 1922 respectively) and the later opera `Thijl' (1940) - we all know for its famous Treurmuziek (funeral music), a Dutch classic for solemn occasions, when Haitink uses to lead the Royal Concertgebouw Orchestra & the whole not-so-royal nation through it. :'( 0:)
But then again, I never heard of this orchestra that is doing the honours with van Gilse? Netherlands SO?
Quote from: Harry on April 04, 2008, 03:57:36 AM
But then again, I never heard of this orchestra that is doing the honours with van Gilse? Netherlands SO?
NSO appears to be the name for international use applied by the
Orkest van het Oosten, based at Enschedé (not that far away from your own
plaggenhut, btw!)
The one release that I missed, and only observed now, being the second installment in the Röntgen series. Do you happen to know it?
(http://www.jpc.de/image/w600/front/0/0761203731121.jpg)
Quote from: Christo on April 04, 2008, 04:23:53 AM
NSO appears to be the name for international use applied by the Orkest van het Oosten, based at Enschedé (not that far away from your own plaggenhut, btw!)
The one release that I missed, and only observed now, being the second installment in the Röntgen series. Do you happen to know it?
(http://www.jpc.de/image/w600/front/0/0761203731121.jpg)
I changed my Plaggenhut, for a super modern home my friend back in 1978! ;D
You are a bit behind with recent info alltogether........
Het Orkest van het Oosten, a provincial orchestra of rather doubtful quality, at least what I heard of it. :P
But maybe I am behind with my info, for it was a long time ago I heard them do a live recording of Rachmaninov's first Symphony, and I walked out of that concert...
I have the second instalment of Rontgen's music, but I tremble a bit for its modernity. I have to come to terms with vocal music from that time yet, but one of these days I will play it, no doubt.
The same orchestra, blimey I did not notice this before, because I ordered it without thinking to much about the orchestra, and also the Vocal section of these forces..........
Quote from: Harry on April 04, 2008, 04:44:30 AM
I changed my Plaggenhut, for a super modern home my friend back in 1978! ;D
(...)
I have the second instalment of Rontgen's music, but I tremble a bit for its modernity.
Really, but could we observe the minor differences between a super modern plaggenhut from 1978 or one from 1798? (Both dates sound very ancient indeed). ;)
`Modernity' is a word his biographer and critic
Jurriaan Vis, who last month presented his elaborate doctoral thesis on Röntgen here in Utrecht, has never come up with. In his view, Röntgen sternly belongs to the 19th century, even if he continued composing untill 1931.
Talking about recent CD issues, I now discovered another new release I didn't observe before. It includes part of the
Harmony of the Spheres that I own in the complete, original recording, taking 64 minutes on its own:
(http://www.jpc.de/image/w600/front/0/8711801101514.jpg)
Hold on, hold on! Where did you get the info' about the release of the van Gilse Symphonies Nos. 1 and 2? The CPO website does not have the April releases up yet. I can't read German but I do know what "Neuheiten" means and the 'neuheiten' on their site covers the March releases.
I googled CPO + van Gilse and found the Joachim Raff forums(www.raff.org), according to which CPO intends to release this year-
the Bischoff Symphony No.2, von Reznicek's Symphony No.1, Rontgen's Symphony No.10 and Bruno Walter's Symphony No.1.
Interesting stuff!
Oh, by the way, I thought Rontgen's "Aus Goethes Faust" much more attractive and impressive than the 3rd symphony.
Quote from: Christo on April 04, 2008, 05:01:53 AM
`Modernity' is a word his biographer and critic Jurriaan Vis, who last month presented his elaborate doctoral thesis on Röntgen here in Utrecht, has never come up with. In his view, Röntgen sternly belongs to the 19th century, even if he continued composing untill 1931.
Yes, you are right, I should have said that this view is very personally, of course Rontgen is far from modern..... :)
Quote from: Dundonnell on April 04, 2008, 05:11:31 AM
Hold on, hold on! Where did you get the info' about the release of the van Gilse Symphonies Nos. 1 and 2? The CPO website does not have the April releases up yet. I can't read German but I do know what "Neuheiten" means and the 'neuheiten' on their site covers the March releases.
I googled CPO + van Gilse and found the Joachim Raff forums(www.raff.org), according to which CPO intends to release this year-
the Bischoff Symphony No.2, von Reznicek's Symphony No.1, Rontgen's Symphony No.10 and Bruno Walter's Symphony No.1.
Well under Neuheiten it was today.... ;D They refresh their info every day in neuheiten!
And I agree, the Bischoff/Reznicek/Rontgen releases are of major interest, at least for me.
Bisschoff second symphony, wow, I am already impatient.
Quote from: Harry on April 04, 2008, 05:20:15 AM
Well under Neuheiten it was today.... ;D They refresh their info every day in neuheiten!
And I agree, the Bischoff/Reznicek/Rontgen releases are of major interest, at least for me.
Bisschoff second symphony, wow, I am already impatient.
Well, they may have refreshed it for you but when I go to their site the Neuheiten still shows the March releases(eg Sallinen's 3rd and 5th symphonies). Very odd!! Sometimes the ways of the internet seem decidedly peculiar! ???
Quote from: Dundonnell on April 04, 2008, 05:27:21 AM
Well, they may have refreshed it for you but when I go to their site the Neuheiten still shows the March releases(eg Sallinen's 3rd and 5th symphonies). Very odd!! Sometimes the ways of the internet seem decidedly peculiar! ???
Here you go, right row, 6th picture, although it has no cover yet! ;D
http://www.jpc.de/jpcng/classic/novelties/-/flush/1/typnum/3
I never look at the CPO site, but just on JPC. There it's listed, complete with a description of the composer and his work in German (a rather widespread eastern Dutch dialect btw), as:
Jan van Gilse (1881-1944) Symphonien Nr. 1 & 2CD Erscheinungstermin: 21.4.2008
Neuheit zum limitierten Sonderpreis, gültig bis 15.5.2008, danach EUR 17,99
Künstler: Netherlands SO, David Porcelijn Label: CPO, DDD, 2007
Quote from: Christo on April 04, 2008, 05:33:49 AM
There it's listed, complete with a description of the composer and his work in German (a rather widespread eastern Dutch dialect btw)
Good to put matters straight. There is a lot of confusion about this (especially in Germany).
Many thanks! Yes, found it in the JPC new releases section minus cover picture as you say.
Interesting info' about the German language. Must remember that :) ;D
Quote from: Christo on April 04, 2008, 05:33:49 AM
I never look at the CPO site, but just on JPC. There it's listed, complete with a description of the composer and his work in German (a rather widespread eastern Dutch dialect btw), as:
Jan van Gilse (1881-1944) Symphonien Nr. 1 & 2CD Erscheinungstermin: 21.4.2008
Neuheit zum limitierten Sonderpreis, gültig bis 15.5.2008, danach EUR 17,99
Künstler: Netherlands SO, David Porcelijn Label: CPO, DDD, 2007
O, now I understand, he was on the CPO site, instead on the JPC site!
Sure you will not find it at CPO.
Quote from: Christo on April 04, 2008, 05:33:49 AM
I never look at the CPO site, but just on JPC. There it's listed, complete with a description of the composer and his work in German (a rather widespread eastern Dutch dialect btw), as:
;D ;D
Quote from: Harry on April 04, 2008, 05:42:50 AM
O, now I understand, he was on the CPO site, instead on the JPC site!
Sure you will not find it at CPO.
:-[ Is that not where one would look to find it? :-[
Quote from: Dundonnell on April 04, 2008, 05:47:59 AM
:-[ Is that not where one would look to find it? :-[
No, not us. Why should we, if it isn't shown there? ;)
Quote from: Dundonnell on April 04, 2008, 05:47:59 AM
:-[ Is that not where one would look to find it? :-[
No, most of the time the new releases are to be found on the JPC site, and well before CPO will show them.
Quote from: Christo on April 04, 2008, 05:57:44 AM
No, not us. Why should we, if it isn't shown there? ;)
Stupid me!! Should have thought of that! :)
Quote from: Harry on April 04, 2008, 05:58:26 AM
No, most of the time the new releases are to be found on the JPC site, and well before CPO will show them.
I will remember that :) Thank you for your kind indulgence ;) :)
Yesterday, erato wrote in the
present-listening-to thread, that he was playing another Röntgen release I din't year yet:
Quote from: Don on April 04, 2008, 01:23:59 PM
Rontgen's Three Cello Concertos on Etcetera. No. 1 isn't so hot, but 2 and 3 are wonderful examples of romantic era dialogues between cello and orchestra. Actually, I find no. 2 as rewarding as Dvorak's Cello Concerto.
(http://www.jpc.de/image/w600/front/0/8711801101651.jpg)
I wonder who else heard them - any opinions?
Quote from: Christo on April 06, 2008, 12:23:30 AM
Yesterday, erato wrote in the present-listening-to thread, that he was playing another Röntgen release I din't year yet:
(http://www.jpc.de/image/w600/front/0/8711801101651.jpg)
I wonder who else heard them - any opinions?
Yes, I have and was very pleasantly surprised at how thoroughly enjoyable and well-written they are! I would agree that No.1 is the most conventional and least interesting but Nos. 2 and 3 are really quite delightful works, full of good tunes! They deserve to be much better known and would make excellent additions to the cello repertoire in concert. Old-fashioned maybe but none the worse for that!
It will be interesting to follow Rontgen's music through the release of the CPO series. I was not particularly taken by Symphony No.3 but the cello concertos and 'Aus Goethes Faust' have impressed me.
Quote from: Dundonnell on April 06, 2008, 07:38:26 AM
It will be interesting to follow Rontgen's music through the release of the CPO series. I was not particularly taken by Symphony No.3 but the cello concertos and 'Aus Goethes Faust' have impressed me.
The point with Röntgen seems to be: the later, the better. In his final years he felt completely free to write music as pleased him, just for the joy of writing music. His style was almost completely outdated by that time (around 1930, when he enjoyed an Indian Summer in his villa `Gaudeamus' in the woods near Utrecht and desgined for him by his son), but the music is often uncomplicated, lyrical, direct and free - and worth a revival.
Quote from: Christo on April 08, 2008, 12:30:58 AM
The point with Röntgen seems to be: the later, the better. In his final years he felt completely free to write music as pleased him, just for the joy of writing music. His style was almost completely outdated by that time (around 1930, when he enjoyed an Indian Summer in his villa `Gaudeamus' in the woods near Utrecht and desgined for him by his son), but the music is often uncomplicated, lyrical, direct and free - and worth a revival.
I don't know which symphony of his you let me listen to once, Christo, but I found it, as you say, free and unfettered. A sort of controlled stream-of(-musical)-consciousness. Very appealing and surprising.
Quote from: Jezetha on April 08, 2008, 12:35:05 AM
I don't know which symphony of his you let me listen to once, Christo, but I found it, as you say, free and unfettered. A sort of controlled stream-of(-musical)-consciousness. Very appealing and surprising.
We were probably playing this CD:
(http://home.wirehub.nl/~jrontgen/Cobra_0017.jpg)
.. with both his `Bitonal' Symphony (1931) and his Symphony No. 4 in C sharp minor (1930) - both illustrative of your description. The `Music to Goethes Faust' dates from the same late period and might be of equal interest.
Quote from: Christo on April 10, 2008, 11:54:24 PM
We were probably playing this CD with both his `Bitonal' Symphony (1931) and his Symphony No. 4 in C sharp minor (1930) - both illustrative of your description. The `Music to Goethes Faust' dates from the same late period and might be of equal interest.
Yes, that's it! And I preferred the symphony whose argument was a bit tighter... Regarding that 'Faust' music - is it purely orchestral?
Quote from: Jezetha on April 11, 2008, 12:00:07 AM
Yes, that's it! And I preferred the symphony whose argument was a bit tighter... Regarding that 'Faust' music - is it purely orchestral?
Oh, oh. I should have corrected my info before posting: the Symphony in C sharp minor - my favourite - is no longer called his `Fourth' (actually, it's number 8 or something, in a completeseries of at least 21 symphonies) and the `Bitonal Symphony' - your favourite, if I recall well - stems from 1930 too.
The Faust Music rather looks like yet another huge `Faustian' oratorio (like e.g. Tobias'
Des Jonah Sendung or Mahler VIII):
(http://www.jpc.de/image/w600/front/0/0761203731121.jpg)
I wonder what Röntgen adds to Berlioz and Schumann (among many others)...
What Havergal Brian did with the Prologue to Faust is not without interest either:
http://www.mediafire.com/?jmdsed11jxi
At present, I'm much more concerned with everything I can find by Léon Orthel (1905-1985). I was extremely happy to find that the reissue of a series of radio recordings opens with his great Evocazione per orchestra that I heard in the Radio in the 1970s and really love to hear again: muscular, colourfull music, not unlike Tubin, Englund, or Barber.
The greatest discovery however being his Third Symphony from 1943 - a real war symphony, with even hidden references better not known to the occupier. Now that we are rediscovering Richard Arnell in the UK, and for very good reasons, we should do the same with Orthel.
(http://www.jpc.de/image/w600/front/0/8711801101965.jpg)
Quote from: Jezetha on April 11, 2008, 12:15:51 AM
I wonder what Röntgen adds to Berlioz and Schumann (among many others)...
What Havergal Brian did with the Prologue to Faust is not without interest either:
http://www.mediafire.com/?jmdsed11jxi
Ha!! I was waiting for Brian, could only surpress my inclination to name him as well because I was d-d sure you would'nt let this post go without doing so. No Faust without Brian, of course!
Quote from: Christo on April 11, 2008, 12:19:07 AM
The greatest discovery however being his Third Symphony from 1943 - a real war symphony, with even hidden references better not known to the occupier. Now that we are rediscovering Richard Arnell in the UK, and for very good reasons, we should do the same with Orthel.
You really have whetted my appetite! Those 'hidden references' - I suspect reminiscences of Valerius?
Quote from: Jezetha on April 11, 2008, 12:26:23 AM
You really have whetted my appetite! Those 'hidden references' - I suspect reminiscences of Valerius?
No, Valerius' glorious rebirth was over by those years - modernism had made its way into the Dutch interwar music as well. As it goes with things well hidden - no greater fun than to discover them for yourselves ;D ;)
Quote from: Christo on April 11, 2008, 12:35:19 AM
No, Valerius' glorious rebirth was over by those years - modernism had made its way into the Dutch interwar music as well. As it goes with things well hidden - no greater fun than to discover them for yourselves ;D ;)
You are cruel. :'( But right, of course. :)
Quote from: Jezetha on April 11, 2008, 12:36:50 AM
.. of course. :)
As always. >:D Do you happen to know any other piece by Orthel, e.g. his equally muscular Second Symphony, the
Piccola Sinfonia (1940), often regarded his masterpiece? The
Second and
Third can well stand comparison with e.g. Englund or Arnell, and I'm very curious after his
Fifth `Musica iniziale' (1960) and especially the larger
Sixth (1961).
(The
Fourth, a `Sinfonia concertante' from 1949, is also on this double CD, but it's more a kind of virtuoso piano concerto meant for his own performance, sounding very much like a
Rachmaninoff 5.
A fine performance of the
Piccola Sinfonia (in 1959 stereo) is in this great box I recently ordered from JPC for just the p&p costs:
(http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2007/Feb07/Otterloo_CC72142.jpg)
Quote from: Christo on April 11, 2008, 01:40:07 AM
Do you happen to know any other piece by Orthel, e.g. his equally muscular Second Symphony, the Piccola Sinfonia (1940), often regarded his masterpiece?
I only heard it once, in 1981, I think. A very good friend of mine (he still is) had the LP. I vaguely remember the sound...
Oh dear! Another new composer to explore! All this is costing me too much money!
The references to Arnell, Tubin and Englund are TOO tempting however. If Orthel's music sounds like that of these composers I cannot resist!! :)
Quote from: Dundonnell on April 11, 2008, 04:14:57 AM
Oh dear! Another new composer to explore! All this is costing me too much money!
The references to Arnell, Tubin and Englund are TOO tempting however. If Orthel's music sounds like that of these composers I cannot resist!! :)
Oh, he's actually even
much better! 0:) (But please, don't blame me for my opinion in case you'll think otherwise ... :'( )
I perhaps better send you a copy of the main orchestral pieces by Orthel on one CD, as they're found on to many different releases (the second half of the twofer contains chamber music).
Quote from: Christo on April 11, 2008, 04:21:54 AM
Oh, he's actually even much better! 0:) (But please, don't blame me for my opinion in case you'll think otherwise ... :'( )
I perhaps better send you a copy of the main orchestral pieces by Orthel on one CD, as they're found on to many different releases (the second half of the twofer contains chamber music).
Well, that would be quite fantastic!
Perhaps Christo, you could do an upload to rapidshare?
Th.
Quote from: Thom on April 11, 2008, 06:00:17 AM
Perhaps Christo, you could do an upload to rapidshare?
Th.
Good idea. Lethe already made a lot available, earlier in this thread. I'll do the same as soon as I'll have time to find out how it works, technically :-)
Quote from: Christo on April 13, 2008, 05:56:18 AM
Good idea. Lethe already made a lot available, earlier in this thread. I'll do the same as soon as I'll have time to find out how it works, technically :-)
If you need any help, PM me. And don't use Rapidshare but MediaFire...
Quote from: Jezetha on April 13, 2008, 06:58:47 AM
If you need any help, PM me. And don't use Rapidshare but MediaFire...
Yes, if an ancient technophobe like me can master Mediafire any one can! It is really very easy-I promise you! All you have to do is (a) register (b) tell Mediafire to upload however many files from your computer you wish (c) it then uploads the files and provides you with the link which you can then provide to anyone else you want to share your files with. It is so easy!
Ok then. Baby's first attempt at a Mediafire upload.
Julius Röntgen, Sijmphonie in cis `Herrn Generalmusik-direktor Carl Schuricht zugeeignet' (1930)
http://www.mediafire.com/?jdxzzyntdvj (http://www.mediafire.com/?jdxzzyntdvj)
The Symphony in C sharp minor is dated 8 May 1930 and dedicated to Carl Schuricht, who conducted the traditional summer concerts in the Scheveningen Kurhaus in the early 1930s. There, he performed this formally one-movement symphony on a number of occasions. The sections being: Andante mesto - Allegro agitato - Lento - Tempo I - Lento - Tempo I. There's a pastoral streak to the work expressed in the vocalise part for solo soprano.
It's here performed by the Netherlands Radio Symphony Orchestra under Jac van Steen, with Roberta Alexander, soprano.
You're a fast learner, Christo! Dl'ing as I write... This is the symphony I liked - great to have it!
P.S. Hm, this is the other one. Never mind! I'll reassess it.
Quote from: Christo on April 13, 2008, 08:04:40 AM
Ok then. Baby's first attempt at a Mediafire upload.
Julius Röntgen, Sijmphonie in cis `Herrn Generalmusik-direktor Carl Schuricht zugeeignet' (1930)
http://www.mediafire.com/?jdxzzyntdvj (http://www.mediafire.com/?jdxzzyntdvj)
The Symphony in C sharp minor is dated 8 May 1930 and dedicated to Carl Schuricht, who conducted the traditional summer concerts in the Scheveningen Kurhaus in the early 1930s. There, he performed this formally one-movement symphony on a number of occasions. The sections being: Andante mesto - Allegro agitato - Lento - Tempo I - Lento - Tempo I. There's a pastoral streak to the work expressed in the vocalise part for solo soprano.
It's here performed by the Netherlands Radio Symphony Orchestra under Jac van Steen, with Roberta Alexander, soprano.
That worked perfectly! Congratulations!! I see that it is labelled "Nummer 9". Does that mean it is Rontgen's 9th Symphony? From the Rontgen Foundation website it looks like No.6 but I know that there are problems with the numbering of the symphonies.
Many thanks!
Christo, thank you, much obliged.
Actually, I think it is his 8th symphony.
Thom
Quote from: Thom on April 13, 2008, 09:31:00 AM
Christo, thank you, much obliged.
Actually, I think it is his 8th symphony.
Thom
Confusingly, the Julius Rontgen Society(UK) says that it is No.4!
I'll upload later (possibly only tomorroiw) Rudolf Escher's "Hymne du grand Meaulnes" - a really extremely beautiful work. It was available on a Teleac CD,which I found purely by chance.
Peter
Another one: Julius Röntgen, Bitonal Symphony (1930) - Noord Nederlands Orkest, Hans Leenders
(Lento e mesto - Animato - Allegro agitato - Andante sostenuto - Molto tranquillo - Tempo I)
http://www.mediafire.com/?wbwmjyxytzx (http://www.mediafire.com/?wbwmjyxytzx)
http://www.mediafire.com/?mzdyyzoyk97 (http://www.mediafire.com/?mzdyyzoyk97)
http://www.mediafire.com/?40yyfxrwndd (http://www.mediafire.com/?40yyfxrwndd)
http://www.mediafire.com/?yyyjhzm08md (http://www.mediafire.com/?yyyjhzm08md)
http://www.mediafire.com/?tsdymymo7nx (http://www.mediafire.com/?tsdymymo7nx)
http://www.mediafire.com/?zgmwtpmy29m (http://www.mediafire.com/?zgmwtpmy29m)
We better forget about the numbering - there's too much confusion here. Last month, Jurriaan Vis came with a huge monography (biography + discussion of his major compositions) on Röntgen that no doubt clarifies the numbers of the surviving symphonies (a few went lost, appearantly). But I didn't buy that book yet.
To quote from the booklet:
` The Bitonal Symphony from 1930 is a unique and one-off experiment in the technique of contemporaries like the members of the Groupe of Six, Stravinsky and Martinu. Röntgen closely followed the developments of new music and was not narrow-minded in his admiration for composers like Debussy, Stravinsky, Hindemith and Gershwin. Debussy's Pelléas et Mélisande delighted Röntgen enormously. His analyses of contemporary music led incidentally to compositions in the style of admired examples. Röntgen however, rejected Schönberg and his twelve-tone system, which he regarded as unmusical. The Bitonal Symphony, which Röntgen proudly reported to Donald Tovey, is not really a homage to Debussy or the later representatives of bitonality. Röntgen's bitonality is one without sharp edges, without the gay insolence of Milhaud or Stravinsky's neoclassical hidden meaning. (...)
The symphony consists of six short movements linked to one another. A strong chromatic motif and its inversion set the introduction's atmosphere, which is sparsely instrumented and slow in development. The following Animato starts with ascending runs of five notes, exposing an instable harmony caused by the augmented fifth interval. Röntgen chooses for a contrasting tempo in a dance-like triple meter time. The motif of five rising notes characterizes the following Allegro agitato. The Andante sostenuto has again the form of a theme with a recognizable harmonic cadenza - without a tinge of bitonality! The texture becomes fuller and a romantic connecting passage leads to the last part, in which the chromatic opening motif and the bitonal `motto' sounds a last time in the harp. ' (notes by Theo Muller)
Thanks for uploading the two Röntgen symphonies!
Noblesse oblige! Finally, a third one: Julius Röntgen, Symphony in A minor (1931) Noord Nederlands Orkest, Hans Leenders
(Moderato - L'istesso tempo - Un poco vivace - Tempo I, Moderato)
http://www.mediafire.com/?mx1utn9omyt (http://www.mediafire.com/?mx1utn9omyt)
http://www.mediafire.com/?2bt9m3bl5lz (http://www.mediafire.com/?2bt9m3bl5lz)
http://www.mediafire.com/?uzzjydgcj0h (http://www.mediafire.com/?uzzjydgcj0h)
http://www.mediafire.com/?4htye9dtmwx (http://www.mediafire.com/?4htye9dtmwx)
` The symphony belongs to the group of one movement, through-composed symphonies. César Franck's cyclical principle is applied by usage of a central theme, which from the outset is heard a number of times. '
And now for a start with my major discovery, this week: Léon Orthel (1905-1985). I'm often reminded of Einar Englund, but you better decide for yourselves. As an easy starter, his very late & rather soundtrack-like Evocazione that I remember to have heard on the radio back in 1979, but didn't hear again untill last week, now that it was released on a new Etcetera CD with radio recordings.
Léon Orthel, Evocazione per orchestra Op. 83 (1977) [04:23]
Amsterdam Philharmonic Orchestra, Anton Kersjes, rec. NOS Radio, 24 October 1979.
http://www.mediafire.com/?gv2ynsnmqxt (http://www.mediafire.com/?gv2ynsnmqxt)
`Evocazione was written when the composer was 72 years old. It is the result of a commission for a short opening piece that the Dutch music rights organisation BUMA and Anton Kersjes gave to ten Dutch composers. The rather filmic introduction is followed by a lyric passage mainly in the strings, which is so characteristic of Orthel. It is followed by a march that leads to a climax, after which the work is concluded by rudiments of the introduction. The composer wrote down his ideas after reading Rilke's Toten-Tanz and seeing Pieter Bruegel the Elder's The Triumph of Death.' (from notes by Otto Ketting)
I can't wait to listen to Orthel, I'll download the Evocazione first!
Léon Orthel, Symphony No. 2 'Piccola sinfonia' Op. 18 (1940) [15:33]
Residentie Orkest, The Hague, Willem van Otterloo, rec. Scheveningen, Kurhaus, October 1959
http://www.mediafire.com/?bw3jz1ttagb (http://www.mediafire.com/?bw3jz1ttagb)
Léon Orthel's brief, one-movement Symphony No. 2 was dedicated to Eduard Flipse, who conducted the work's premiere in October 1941 with the Rotterdam Philharmonic Orchestra. The sombre, elegiac opening phrases and the dramatic tone of the closing measures – ominous rather than triumphant – perhaps reflect the mood of the time (1940) in which the work was written. This RO recording dates from 1959 and was released on a mono LP, together with Hendrik Andriessen's Kuhnau Variations and Ricercare. It was the only work that was recorded not in the Amsterdam Concertgebouw but in the Kurhaus in Scheveningen. Orthel's Symphony No. 2 enjoyed countless performances during the 1950's and 60's. Van Otterloo also performed this piece abroad, for example during the RO's American tour in 1965. (Otto Ketting)
Léon Orthel's Second Symphony is a concise wartime work, which is both tonal and accessible. At the start we hear "sombre, elegiac opening phrases" (Ketting). Then a faster, energetic passage for the strings ushers in a powerful section in which the brass are much involved. Around 4:10 the music becomes slower and more pensive; here the strings and a regretful flute solo are to the fore. The passage between 5:20 and 7:00, which mainly features the strings and woodwind, put me in mind of Vaughan Williams's Fourth and Sixth symphonies. This is followed by a more cheerful section, which could be taken for a brief scherzo, after which a short fugue paves the way for an exciting climax. A doleful clarinet solo [11:00] ushers in a slower, more reflective episode and then the brass lead a powerful ending. This impressed me as a serious, compact and worthwhile piece and so far as I can judge it is played with conviction and purpose. (John Quinn, review at Musicweb)
Léon Orthel, Scherzo no. 2 per orchestra Op. 38 (1957) [12:02]
Het Brabants Orkest, Marc Soustrot, rec. NPS Radio, Muziekcentrum Frits Philips, Eindhoven, 4 June 1998
http://www.mediafire.com/?dlo3jz1dt2w (http://www.mediafire.com/?dlo3jz1dt2w)
`Night-music and obsessive rhythmic repetition were two tried-and-true methods with which Badings created an atmosphere of sombreness in many of his works. Léon Orthel (1905-1985) was similarly possessed by a vision of darkness when composing his Second Scherzo for Orchestra in 1957. The idea of a sombre scherzo seems at first glance a contradiction in terminis, but Orthel explained his work thus: `While I never planned to depict any of his paintings in music, the figure of Hieronymus Bosch loomed before me during the process, of composing the piece. It is an indication that this scherzo is no laughing matter.' The jolly scherzo of old has indeed been transformed here into hideous grimace, it is not difficult to imagine the bitter faces of Boschs paintings in the stopped brass and biting instrumental solos. Léon Orthel was primarily a symphonist. He composed twelve large-scale symphonic works, including six symphonies. He observed new developments in compositional technique with great interest, but nevertheless always followed his own musical intuition, and neither atonality nor serialism was ever able to get a foot in the door. Orthel developed a completely personal style which was greeted by critics with a mix of relief and apprehension. Nevertheless, the high level of craftsmanship and musical integrity that characterize his entire oeuvre were rewarded with the Johan Wagenaar Prize in 1973.' (from notes by Saskia Törnquist)
Just listened to the Evocazione two times, and I am now in the middle of the 'Piccola sinfonia'... Well, what can I say - I am more than pleasantly surprised! Your enthusiasm is well-founded, Christo. This is excellent music. Orthel is audibly his own man.
Later addition: the 'Piccola Sinfonia' just finished. 'Piccola' is quite an understatement! This is a very powerful symphony, very concentrated, with moments of poignant beauty. Vermeulen may be extraordinary, but Orthel is far from second-rate. On the contrary.
Quote from: Jezetha on April 13, 2008, 01:04:36 PM
Just listened to the Evocazione two times, and I am now in the middle of the 'Piccola sinfonia'... Well, what can I say - I am more than pleasantly surprised! Your enthusiasm is well-founded, Christo. This is excellent music. Orthel is audibly his own man.
Later addition: the 'Piccola Sinfonia' just finished. 'Piccola' is quite an understatement! This is a very powerful symphony, very concentrated, with moments of poignant beauty. Vermeulen may be extraordinary, but Orthel is far from second-rate. On the contrary.
More - the equally powerful but more extended and even more warlike
Third (1943) and rather different (`Sinfonia concertante')
Fourth (1949) - to follow later. Mediafire refusing service at the moment (well, my always poor signal is simply too weak at the moment ...). :-\ Good to hear that you like them! :)
Quote from: Christo on April 13, 2008, 01:17:26 PM
More - the equally powerfull but more extended and more warlike Third (1943) and rather different (`Sinfonia concertante') Fourth (1949) - to follow later. Mediafire refusing service at the moment (well, my always poor signal is simply too weak at the moment ...). :-\ Good to hear that you like them! :)
I am now listening to the Scherzo No. 2... 'Liking' isn't the word. This is music I can love unreservedly.
Later:
Now we are so busy sharing, for those who don't have these already, here are Vermeulen's Second and the Passacaille et Cortège form 'De Vliegende Hollander', first performances, Van Beinum conducting the Concertgebouw Orchestra:
http://rapidshare.com/files/102350106/Vermeulen_Symphony_No.2__Prelude_a_la_nouvelle_journee___Eduard_van_Beinum_Jul5_1956.mp3
http://rapidshare.com/files/102350103/Vermeulen_Passaceille_et_Cortege_from__De_vliegende_Hollander__Eduard_van_Beinum_Mar17_1957.mp3
Sooner or later I should upload Belgian music....but for now, here is Rudolf Escher's magnificent "Hymne du grand Meaulnes" - a multi-layered ,slowly expanding symphonic song. A tribute to the Sologne region in France and an hommage to the youthful striving and deceptions of Meaulnes himself ( (Alain -Fournier's novel is still quite popular today).
The Rotterdam Phil.O. / Edo De Waart
http://www.mediafire.com/?abmdtfyydmn
Quote from: pjme on April 13, 2008, 02:00:09 PM
Sooner or later I should upload Belgian music....but for now, here is Rudolf Escher's magnificent "Hymne du grand Meaulnes" - a multi-layered ,slowly expanding symphonic song. A tribute to the Sologne region in France and an hommage to the youthful striving and deceptions of Meaulnes himself ( (Alain -Fournier's novel is still quite popular today).
The Rotterdam Phil.O. / Edo De Waart
http://www.mediafire.com/?abmdtfyydmn
Many thanks, Peter, had a first listen - great music indeed!
I never saw that Telarc CD, can you offer some details?
Christo it is a TELEAC CD! ( not Telarc...that would be a real surprise).
The CD came with a book and (possibly) a series on the Radio or TV. ( Muziek in de Nederlanden 1950-heden) / 1989 - stichting Teleac/Utrecht - Klaas Postuma/Leo Samama)
Escher's work is coupled with Vermeulen's 6th symphony ( Les minutes heureuse), Ton de Leeuw's Symphonies for winds and Tristan Keuris "Catena" (winds and percussion). All works performed by the Rotterdam Ph.O / Edo De Waart.
I bought it at De Slegte ( a few left over Cd's - the book was sold out).
Peter
Quote from: pjme on April 14, 2008, 01:04:02 AM
Christo it is a TELEAC CD! ( not Telarc...that would be a real surprise).
The CD came with a book and (possibly) a series on the Radio or TV. ( Muziek in de Nederlanden 1950-heden) / 1989 - stichting Teleac/Utrecht - Klaas Postuma/Leo Samama). Escher's work is coupled with Vermeulen's 6th symphony ( Les minutes heureuse), Ton de Leeuw's Symphonies for winds and Tristan Keuris "Catena" (winds and percussion). All works performed by the Rotterdam Ph.O / Edo De Waart. I bought it at De Slegte ( a few left over Cd's - the book was sold out).
Peter
Telarc, the lark, Teleac, it's all a bit confusing for me :-) The funny thing being, that I think I own the book, but not the CD ... probably because you had bought it ;)
Thank you all so much for the great uploads! I appreciate this very much.
Th.
Léon Orthel, Symphony No. 3 Op. 24 (1943) [33 minutes]
1. Adagio [05:34]
2. Scherzo [06:57]
3. Adagio [07:27]
4. Allegro non troppo – Adagio [12:46]
http://www.mediafire.com/?xtnbljymvyv (http://www.mediafire.com/?xtnbljymvyv)
http://www.mediafire.com/?yjyic7nic22 (http://www.mediafire.com/?yjyic7nic22)
http://www.mediafire.com/?bz0m1cvmiz4 (http://www.mediafire.com/?bz0m1cvmiz4)
http://www.mediafire.com/?bvvwgxc0bsd (http://www.mediafire.com/?bvvwgxc0bsd)
Netherlands Radio Philharmonic Orchestra, Willem van Otterloo (rec. AVRO Radio, 12 April 1972).
`Orthel wrote six symphonies, the second of which is the best known and possibly Orthel's masterpiece. The Third Symphony was written three years after the Second. The introduction with the clarinet, violins and tenor drum, is a disguised quote from Psalm 140: `Evil shall hunt the violent man to overthrow him'. Naturally this had to be concealed during the German occupation and it was not revealed by the composer after the war. The Scherzo is rather angular and sarcastic; the Trio is based on the rhythm of a nursery rhyme, which also plays a role in the third movement, interrupting the slow pace. In the march at the end – the First Symphony (1933) finishes with a march as well – the psalm melody from the beginning is used again, but now in its entirety. ' (booklet notes by Otto Ketting)
Of course, I checked my books on Dutch music, but none of them, not even Leo Samama's extensive and often detailed overview of contemporary Dutch music (Zeventig jaar Nederlandse muziek, 1915-1985, Amsterdam 1986) pays any special attention to Léon Orthel's music, let alone to his Third Symphony. The Second (`Piccola Sinfonia', 1940) is the only one to receive some attention. The Fourth (`Sinfonia concertante for piano and orchestra', 1949) is also mentioned, but the Fifth (1960) and Sixth (1961) are both completely ignored as well. So, whether or not his Third Symphony is worth a listen at all, after all – it's completely up to you to decide. :)
I have been very busy today, so a belated thanks to Peter for the wonderful Escher piece and a big thankyou to Christo for uploading the discovery of the year - Orthel's Third! I am going to download it now and listen to it...
I just want to add my warmest appreciation and deepest thanks to Christo and Peter for their kindness in making so much Dutch music available to us in the last 24 hours.
Never in my wildest dreams when I started this thread could I have imagined that the flood gates would open(oh, I am sorry-that is probably not the best metaphor to use for those in the Low Countries! :)) and music I had never hoped to be able to hear should now be added to my collection.
Thank you so much, gentlemen!
So what do you think of Lex van Delden (1919 - 1988)?
From the New Groove:
He studied medicine at Amsterdam University, but as a Jew he
was forced to interrupt his studies during World War II. Van Delden was
self-taught as a composer. Between 1947 and 1982 he was music editor of
the daily paper Het parool, and published many articles in Dutch and
foreign periodicals. During his life he held several administrative posts in
Dutch musical life, including chairmanships of the Society of Dutch
Composers (GeNeCo) and the Office of Music Copyright (BUMA). The first
of Delden's works to attract attention was the cantata Rubáiyát, awarded
the music prize of the City of Amsterdam in 1948. His Harp Concerto and
Impromptu for solo harp were awarded prizes by the Northern California
Harpists' Association in 1953 and 1956. Many of his compositions were
commissioned by the Dutch government, the City of Amsterdam and Dutch
radio. Van Delden expresses his strong social concern in his works: In
memoriam was written in response to the flood disaster of 1953, while
Canto della guerra and Die vogel vrijheid are condemnations of war and
slavery respectively. His compositional style is overtly tonal and based on
conventional forms. He often builds a work from one fairly concise idea; the
tenacity to this starting point generates a conflict which provides the
impetus for the music. The resolution generally takes the initial idea
through a mosaic of variations.
I like his Concerto per Due Orchestre d'Archi
http://www.mediafire.com/?uzfytpjfzyn (http://www.mediafire.com/?uzfytpjfzyn)
This one is from an Etcetera disk (KTC 1156, 1993) with Eugen Jochem and the Concertgebouw. Orchestra. It is clearly a live recording with annoying background noises (coughs etc) but still, i think this is good music!
I knew Lex van Delden primarily as a good music-critic for the Amsterdam-based newspaper Het Parool. I heard one of his compositions in the Concertgebouw once (when he was still alive and even present in the audience). I found it a rather tame affair then, but I was a very absolute young man. I'll have a listen to this piece later today (those two string orchestras sound enticing already!). Thanks!
Quote from: Jezetha on April 14, 2008, 11:04:13 PM
I knew Lex van Delden primarily as a good music-critic for the Amsterdam-based newspaper Het Parool. I heard one of his compositions in the Concertgebouw once (when he was still alive and even present in the audience). I found it a rather tame affair then, but I was a very absolute young man. I'll have a listen to this piece later today (those two string orchestras sound enticing already!). Thanks!
Not to long ago
Johan I bought two MDG cd's with the SQ by Lex van Delden, and I have to say that I was pretty much impressed.
I have played them many times over, so they are good friends now, and I can recommend them any time, for they are well written and far from a tame affair. :)
Léon Orthel, Symphony No. 4 `Sinfonia concertante' for piano and orchestra Op. 32 (1949)
The recording (NCRV Radio, 1 October 1965) is not of the same high quality as those of the Second and Third symphonies (posted here before, both under Van Otterloo), but it features the composer himself at the piano!: Léon Orthel piano, Netherlands Radio Philharmonic Orchestra, Jean Fournet.
http://www.mediafire.com/?kz4vzt9frdo (http://www.mediafire.com/?kz4vzt9frdo)
`The Fourth Symphony is an `homage to the memory of my mother'. A childhood memory: passing an old church on his way to school he heard its bells – this sound scared him, made him sad and at the same time happy. They were the funeral bells. He incorporated these childhood memories into the finale of this work. The composer calls it `a concertante symphony for piano and orchestra'. On the occasion of the premiere (by the Residentie Orchestra conducted by Willem van Otterloo in 1950) Wouter Paap wrote in the periodical Mens en Melodie (vol. 5, no. 12): `The attractiveness of this overwhelming piece of music actually lies in the numerous, often unexpected impulses in which a predilection for virtuosity and a need for dramatic release fight for priority, and frequently come to an impressive agreement. (...) Numerous times it seems that in Orthel a new Rachmaninov has arisen.' Some weeks later Eduard Flipse introduced the work in Rotterdam. Jean Fournet, who also conducts the performance on this CD, gave the Amsterdam premiere with the Concertgebouw Orchestra in 1951. ' (Otto Ketting)
`Orthel belonged to what has come to be known as the lost generation: composers educated in the 1920s and 1930s whose traditional style did not fit in with the modernistic and avant-garde tendencies of the 1950s. Notable in Orthel's music is his desire to take account of the public's capacities of musical perception. Not that he shied away from experimenting with modern techniques: his First Symphony (1933) has a twelve-tone theme, and in later works, such as Epigrammen (1938, he explored polytonal and atonal techniques. But he ultimately distanced himself from modernism and found inspiration in a Romantic style, which in the post-war modern clamour was received by some critics with a mixture of relief und unease.
This was the case, for example, with his Fourth Symphony (1949), which music critic Wouter Paap described in the periodical Mens en Melodie as filled with `pathetic fantasy' that arises from the often unexpected impulses in which the longing for virtuosity and the need for the dramatic conveying of feelings vie for prominence', although `pathos seemed one of those qualities that modern music had unanimously abandoned.'
In retrospect, Orthel's best-known work, the Second Symphony (1940), reveals him to be a composer who was very conscious of the musical development of his time. This piece, in six uninterrupted movements, seems written by someone who took insightful note not just of what his Dutch and French contemporaries were doing, but also of Shostakovich's music. The Second Symphony has a forward drive, leaving itself and the listener no time for reflection and, despite its slightly threatening atmosphere, certainly no reason for gloom. The Fourth Symphony – whose many surprising turns make it exciting form beginning to end, despite its great length, is different in this respect. Here, Orthel seems to have wanted to confirm his preference for dark colours. Notable characteristics are his liking for the `al niente' close and extremely low pedal points: in the Second Symphony there is even a low A which is held for a full hundred measures. ' (Johan Kolsteeg)
Still more Orthel to follow ...
Now I have to find out how to store it on my computer. O, you young people, so knowingly about the download department, and other stuff, concerning computers.
My mind is just not made that way, I am afraid. :)
Quote from: Harry on April 14, 2008, 11:35:21 PM
Now I have to find out how to store it on my computer. O, you young people, so knowingly about the download department, and other stuff, concerning computers.
My mind is just not made that way, I am afraid. :)
There is still hope Harry :D
Not being so young anymore myself, I can manage.
Quote from: Thom on April 14, 2008, 11:40:00 PM
There is still hope Harry :D
Not being so young anymore myself, I can manage.
How nice to hear from you
Thom. Long time no see!
No time for your friends at GMG huh? ;D
Is all okay?
And concerning computers, I have a capable IT firm doing most of the software things that are beyond my capabilities, but downloading classical music is not one of the things I can ask them. As it is they have a low profile of me concerning or implementing things in the computer, for they have to repair the mistakes I made ever so often, so "There is still hope", well, I am skeptical my friend! ;D
Thank you for your kind words Harry. All is well. Very busy at work though but occasionally I look into this great forum. The Dutch Composers thread I like very much. It definitely added to my notion of Dutch Musical Life. Posted this morning a concerto by Lex van Delden myself. I noticed your upload of coverart of two Van Delden's cd's. I also bought his string quartets and have not regretted this. It was more or less a buy on impulse though and - stupid I know - by the splendid looks of the coverart (isn't it a painting by Willink?).
My regards, Thom
Quote from: Thom on April 15, 2008, 12:24:53 AM
Thank you for your kind words Harry. All is well. Very busy at work though but occasionally I look into this great forum. The Dutch Composers thread I like very much. It definitely added to my notion of Dutch Musical Life. Posted this morning a concerto by Lex van Delden myself. I noticed your upload of coverart of two Van Delden's cd's. I also bought his string quartets and have not regretted this. It was more or less a buy on impulse though and - stupid I know - by the splendid looks of the coverart (isn't it a painting by Willink?).
My regards, Thom
Willink, yes, it is!
Léon Orthel, Scherzi III per orchestra a tutti mani &c. (1961) [11:11]
Limburg Symphony Orchestra, André Rieu (père), rec. AVRO Radio, 31 October 1961.
http://www.mediafire.com/?jfxxm22zgtn (http://www.mediafire.com/?jfxxm22zgtn)
`Léon Orthel (1905-1985) wrote his virtuoso Scherzi III, `homage to the memory of my uncle', as a result of a commission for an opening piece for the first Dutch Paralympics. Orthel took inspiration from the tradition of the yearly festival of Lent, widely celebrated in the southern provinces. The premiere was conducted by Andre Rieu during the closing days of the festival with the leading orchestra of the region. The rather filmic and rhythmic introduction is followed by a long lyric passage mainly in the lower strings, which is so characteristic of Orchel's orchestral writing. It is followed by a warlike march leading to a second climax, after which the work is concluded by references to the opening material. The composer was also inspired by reading Rilke's Fasching and on seeing Hieronymus Bosch' paintings, originating in the same region.' (Wytze Klukhuhn)
(MUCH) LATER EDIT: Beware of this! After all the postings of Orthel's music, I decided to add a practical joke, as could have been deduced from the nonsense title and commentary. In reality, the music is the Estonian composer's, Veljo Tormis' Ouverture No. 2 (1958) - which reminds me a bit of Orthel's style.
Tormis' work is to be found at this twofer:
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/610r2ADJWdL._SL500_AA280_.jpg)
Magnificent, Christo. Can't thank you enough.
Thom
Quote from: Thom on April 14, 2008, 10:56:40 PM
So what do you think of Lex van Delden (1919 - 1988)? (...) I like his Concerto per Due Orchestre d'Archi. (...) This one is from an Etcetera disk (KTC 1156, 1993) with Eugen Jochem and the Concertgebouw. Orchestra. It is clearly a live recording with annoying background noises (coughs etc) but still, i think this is good music!
I agree! And I would have started offereing Van Delden's music - the same `lost generation' as Orthel, and not completely unlike him - here, if you hadn't done it already. The problem being, that the only disc available with some of his symphonic music is of a rather low recording quality. I own the disc you mention, and it contains also his
Third Symphony `Facetten' (1955), his
`Piccolo Concerto' for winds, timpani, percussion and piano (1960) and his
Musica Sinfonica for orchestra (1967).
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/416J1C2HYFL._SL500_AA240_.jpg)
Quote from: Christo on April 15, 2008, 01:09:35 AM
I agree! And I would have started offereing Van Delden's music - the same `lost generation' as Orthel, and not completely unlike him - here, if you hadn't done it already. The problem being, that the only disc available with some of his symphonic music is of a rather low recording quality. I own the disc you mention, and it contains also his Third Symphony `Facetten' (1955), his `Piccolo Concerto' for winds, timpani, percussion and piano (1960) and his Musica Sinfonica for orchestra (1967).
Yes I own the same. I also found this one somewhere on the inetrnet ;):
Symphony No. 8 for string orchestra, Op. 84 (1964)
Piccolo Concerto, for 12 wind instruments, timpani, percussion and piano, Op. 67 (1960)
Paul Hupperts; Utrecht Symphony Orchestra
Radio Nederland LP 109880.2 Y, 109877.1 Y (1968)
Sonata for violin and piano Op. 82 (1964)
Jaap van Zweden, violin; Boukje Land, piano
Radio Nederland broadcast
If you want me to, I can try to upload these.
Thom
Thank you very much for the two latest uploads, Christo! If that Third Scherzo is as good as the Second... (Scherzo No. 2 is my favourite Orthel piece at the moment, with the Second Symphony a close second...)
Keep 'em coming!
Quote from: Thom on April 15, 2008, 01:18:15 AM
Yes I own the same. I also found this one somewhere on the inetrnet ;):
Symphony No. 8 for string orchestra, Op. 84 (1964)
Piccolo Concerto, for 12 wind instruments, timpani, percussion and piano, Op. 67 (1960)
Paul Hupperts; Utrecht Symphony Orchestra Radio Nederland LP 109880.2 Y, 109877.1 Y (1968)
Thom
I am not aware of any recording of the
Eight Symphony (1964), Van Delden's last. It isn't mentioned in his discography: http://www.lexvandelden.nl/disco.php?LANG=EN Is it on CD, or just a radio recording? In any case: I would love to have it! Btw: in its transcription, as his
String Quartet II Op. 86, the work is included in the CD with his string quartets, shown here before.
As The orther recording of the
Piccolo Concerto (the one in the CD, below, is a mono recording from 1964) will also be most welcome, if you manage to do so! :)
All right, I will upload the lot. Give me some time. I notice that, while uploading, mediashare often breaks off before the end so i have to start all over again. Maybe something to do with my connection (although it is braodband).
Quote from: Thom on April 15, 2008, 01:48:40 AM
All right, I will upload the lot. Give me some time. I notice that, while uploading, mediashare often breaks off before the end so i have to start all over again. Maybe something to do with my connection (although it is braodband).
I sometimes had this problem with MediaFire, too, especially with larger (or multiple) files. And I have broadband, too. That's why I upload to Rapidshare the last few weeks (I have an account there).
Quote from: Jezetha on April 15, 2008, 01:54:32 AM
I sometimes had this problem with MediaFire, too, especially with larger (or multiple) files. And I have broadband, too. That's why I upload to Rapidshare the last few weeks (I have an account there).
In my case, after struggling with with Mediafire the same way the two of you describe, I found out the problem was caused by my anti-virus protection programme (Kaspersky). Now I switch it off for a moment, and Mediafire uploads go smoothly!
Listening to Scherzo No. 3 - another gem. And played very well, too!
Quote from: Christo on April 15, 2008, 02:07:22 AM
In my case, after struggling with with Mediafire the same way the two of you describe, I found out the problem was caused by my anti-virus protection programme (Kaspersky). Now I switch it off for a moment, and Mediafire uploads go smoothly!
Yes! That seems to do the trick. Uploading now after stopping Norman anti4us and it goes smoothly so far. Thanks for the tip.
LEX VAN DELDEN (1919-1988)
Symphony No. 8 for string orchestra, Op. 84 (1964)
Piccolo Concerto, for 12 wind instruments, timpani, percussion and piano, Op. 67 (1960)
Paul Hupperts; Utrecht Symphony Orchestra
Radio Nederland LP 109880.2 Y, 109877.1 Y (1968)
Sonata for violin and piano Op. 82 (1964)
Jaap van Zweden, violin; Boukje Land, piano
Radio Nederland broadcast
01 Symphony No 8 for string orchestra, Op 84 - I Mov
http://www.mediafire.com/?tjjzyitd9gz (http://www.mediafire.com/?tjjzyitd9gz)
02 Symphony No 8 for string orchestra, Op 84 - II Mov
http://www.mediafire.com/?tgctwllmy5h (http://www.mediafire.com/?tgctwllmy5h)
03 Symphony No 8 for string orchestra, Op 84 - III Mov
http://www.mediafire.com/?4jysz9lhjmy (http://www.mediafire.com/?4jysz9lhjmy)
04 Piccolo Concerto, for 12 wind instruments, timpani, percussion and piano
http://www.mediafire.com/?ljwxngmo1xl (http://www.mediafire.com/?ljwxngmo1xl)
05 Sonata for Violin and Piano Op 82.
http://www.mediafire.com/?dy1d0ywz2ot (http://www.mediafire.com/?dy1d0ywz2ot)
Thom
Oh my!! More!!
I knew that it was a good idea to spend a couple of days in Amsterdam in January!! I am being rewarded for my good sense in choosing Dutch!! ;D
We hope you'll like it. To be frank, I was not at all focused on Dutch serious music but since I have listened to several Dutch composers, thanks to the generous contributions by fellow forum members, I have found reason to reconsider my opinion of the quality in general of this music. It is not at all bad, Röntgen, Pijper, Badings, Dopper, Diepenbrock, to name a few.
Th.
Lex van Delden, Symphony no. 3 `Facetten' Op. 45 (1955) [14:10]
Royal Concertgebouw Orchestra, George Szell, live recording (mono), 15 December 1957
http://www.mediafire.com/?igvdkldfxtu (http://www.mediafire.com/?igvdkldfxtu)
After the Eight for Strings, posted below by Thom, the Third is probably the only other available recording of any of the eight symphonies by Lex van Delden (1919-1988), another member of the `lost generation'. Personally, I'm still less overwhelmed than by Léon Orthel - but I would be happy if all of you take a totally different view. No doubt, we'll be posting his rather Bartók-like Musica Sinfonica (1967) and another version of the more Martinu-like Piccolo Concerto (1960) as well. But we better start with exploring both of the available symphonies ...
`Sinfonia no. 3 is subtitled Facets to indicate the technical procedure that is the basis of this work (which like Musica Sinfonica has no breaks between the movements): the many aspects of the single theme are looked at from various angles, thus showing, like a cut diamond, ever differing facets. The thematic ideas are derived from a series of 21 notes, of which the 11th links two groups of ten each. These two groups are related in so far that the first four notes of group b, for instance, are the inversion of the `tail' of group a, and the end of the series in its turn is the inversion of the very beginning. Not all 21 notes are used in every movement of the symphony. The opening Lento, for example, makes use of just four notes of the long theme, which in the course of the composition returns in various fragmentary shapes, hightlighting certain parts of the tonal sequence in succession; its fully developed, definitive form is only revealed towards the end of the piece, played by the lower strings. The work was commissioned by the Holland Festival, completed on April 4th, 1955 and premiered at the 1955 Holland Festival. ' (Peter Bree)
Yesterday I bought a cd of Badings, but I don't like it, it's Nazi music I think.
I also bought:(http://www.edwardtop.com/pics2/Etcetera_RotterdamQuartets.jpg)
Peter-Jan Wagemans - De zevende symphonie, De stad en de engel (NRPO/Leenders,Hamel)
(The seventh symphony, the city and the angel)
I think this last one is a great work, though I've to listen to it yet.
Quote from: Henk on April 25, 2008, 12:15:45 AM
Yesterday I bought a cd of Badings, but I don't like it, it's Nazi music I think.
I am profoundly shocked by this statement
Henk!And please explain, what is exactly
Nazi-Music?
Quote from: Harry on April 25, 2008, 12:25:38 AM
I am profoundly shocked by this statement Henk!
And please explain, what is exactly Nazi-Music?
It shocked me too, I want to bring this cd to the store again. It just sounds that way. Badings was assigned by the nazi's to be the director of a museum.
If you just listen to it maybe you like it, you just notice there's something strange with it, but when you listen with the thought it could be nazi music, you hear it's nazi music.
Henk
Quote from: Harry on April 25, 2008, 12:25:38 AM
I am profoundly shocked by this statement Henk!
And please explain, what is exactly Nazi-Music?
I am not shocked, simply interested - which CD, Henk, and how does 'Nazi music' sound? Now it's just an assertion, based on extra-musical knowledge.
Btw, I remember composer and critic Konrad Boehmer once remarking, regarding Wagner's anti-Jewish sentiment, there are no such things as 'antisemitic notes'. The reverse might be true, too. Only if a work is a setting of passages of 'Mein kampf' or 'Der Stürmer', is 'Nazi music' a valid characterization!
Just saw your answer, Henk. But I am still none the wiser...
Quote from: Jezetha on April 25, 2008, 12:44:15 AM
I am not shocked, simply interested - which CD, Henk, and how does 'Nazi music' sound? Now it's just an assertion, based on extra-musical knowledge.
You're right.
Quote from: Jezetha on April 25, 2008, 12:44:15 AM
Btw, I remember composer and critic Konrad Boehmer once remarking, regarding Wagner's anti-Jewish sentiment, there are no such things as 'antisemitic notes'. The reverse might be true, too. Only if a work is a setting of passages of 'Mein kampf' or 'Der Stürmer', is 'Nazi music' a valid characterization!
Just saw your answer, Henk. But I am still not the wiser...
Just listen to Badings a bit if you want to know.
Then you first have to tell me which Badings CD it was. ;)
Quote from: Jezetha on April 25, 2008, 12:53:41 AM
Then you first have to tell me which Badings CD it was. ;)
This one:
(http://www.jpc.de/image/w600/front/0/0761203727223.jpg)
I will keep it, just because it's interesting. I also have Kagel, Lachenmann and Rihm, which I think are only interesting also.
Quote from: Henk on April 25, 2008, 01:21:55 AM
This one:
(http://www.jpc.de/image/w600/front/0/0761203727223.jpg)
I will keep it, just because it's interesting. I also have Lachenmann and Rihm, which I only think are interesting.
Right, I have that one, but it beats me, where the Nazi connection is.
There are several Badings scores on page 4 of this thread, uploaded to MediaFire. I'll give Symphonies 2 and 3 a listen later today.
I can not really believe, that you are to investigate into this accusation of Badings symphonies being Nazi music. :o
We have been here before-see the thread on German composers during the period 1933-1945.
I also have the new CPO recording of the three Badings symphonies. The first of these-Badings' 2nd Symphony was written in 1932. The other two date from the 1950s and 1960s respectively.
Are we entitled to call his music 'Nazi'? I do think that this is more than somewhat unfair. I don't know enough about Badings's position during the German occupation of the Netherlands except that he accepted the position as Director of the Conservatory in the Hague after the dismissal of Sam Dresden and that he accepted commissions for music from German orchestras. It is very difficult for an outsider to appreciate the depth of feeling of those living in an occupied country or-even more so-those who participated in resistance movements towards those who were perceived to collaborate with occupying forces. Badings suffered-and perhaps deserved to suffer-a considerable amount of public neglect in the Netherlands after the war. Whether this neglect should be permanent could be debated till the end of time.
I can dissociate the man's record from his music and listen to it with appreciation. Others may not and I can understand that.
Quote from: Harry on April 25, 2008, 01:35:12 AM
I can not really believe, that you are to investigate into this accusation of Badings symphonies being Nazi music. :o
Of course not. I simply want to listen to the music. Whether there is anything to the accusation, I can't tell. And I have already said what I think of 'antisemitic' vs 'Nazi' notes...
This is what I wrote on the Richard Wetz thread (and the same goes for Badings):
Most artists are conformists. Like most human beings they adapt to the status quo, because they want fame, recognition, attention, a position, an income (which means that if the times are rebellious, the artists are rebellious, when the times are pious, so are the artists...). It would be wonderful if artists had as firm a grasp of their art as of the times they live in. But they very often haven't.
I personally admire those artists the most who are masterly in their works and in their lives. But I am always interested in finding a human being in a work of art. That's why I can listen to Wetz.
Quote from: Harry on April 25, 2008, 01:27:42 AM
Right, I have that one, but it beats me, where the Nazi connection is.
Well, Harry, I'm an intellectual and you are not, that's the explanation ;).
Quote from: Henk on April 25, 2008, 01:52:11 AM
Well, Harry, I'm an intellectual and you are not, that's the explanation ;).
Nice try, but I don't think so. 8)
This is what I wrote in another thread:
Henk Badings, Second Symphony (1932) (Schaefer, Dutch Radio Symphony Orchestra)
The first Badings I ever listened to. The work is rather grim and relentless, the orchestration not very colourful. The martial, fanfare-like main theme of the first movement is stronger in its gesture than in its substance. There are a few flashes of poetry, though, which I hope will be more in evidence in other symphonies of his (this is an early one). So this Badings symphony won't be my last.
(To Henk - you really have to define what you mean by 'Nazi music'. I can't hear it. The Nazis would have most likely regarded this work as 'entartet'!)
Quote from: Jezetha on April 26, 2008, 03:02:32 AM
This is what I wrote in another thread:
Henk Badings, Second Symphony (1932) (Schaefer, Dutch Radio Symphony Orchestra)
The first Badings I ever listened to. The work is rather grim and relentless, the orchestration not very colourful. The martial, striding main theme of the first movement is stronger in its gesture than in its substance. There are a few flashes of poetry, though, which I hope will be more in evidence in other symphonies of his (this is an early one). So this Badings symphony won't be my last.
(To Henk - you really have to define what you mean by 'Nazi music'. I can't hear it. The Nazis would have most likely regarded this work as 'entartet'!)
I finished listening to this disc (cpo) 10 minutes ago.
Interestingly the symphony nr 2 reminded me of the music of Harald Sæverud (1897 - 1992), a contemporary of Badings (1907 - 1987), associated with the Norwegian resistance. Sæverud was also living in the near vicinity of me, along with Grieg, Geirr Tveitt and Fartein Valen.
Quote from: erato on April 26, 2008, 03:08:42 AM
I finished listening to this disc (cpo) 10 minutes ago.
Interestingly the symphony nr 2 reminded me of the music of Harald Sæverud (1897 - 1992), a contemporary of Badings (1907 - 1987), associated with the Norwegian resistance. Sæverud was also living in the near vicinity of me, along with Grieg, Geirr Tveitt and Fartein Valen.
Nice one, Erato... So Sæverud wrote politically-correct music (
avant la lettre, of course) that happens to sound a lot like Badings! ;)
Quote from: Jezetha on April 26, 2008, 03:14:40 AM
Nice one, Erato... So Sæverud wrote politically-correct music (avant la lettre, of course) that happens to sound a lot like Badings! ;)
Yes, go figure. Of course that was just an impression based on an initial hearing of the symphony but it was very vlear in my mind at the time of listening.
"For an unbiased and correct evaluation of Badings position during the second WW, do read Leo Samama's " Zeventig jaar Nederlandse muziek - 1915 -1985" (Amsterdam Querido 1986) - pages 174 - 179.
It is clear that only few ( professional) musicians did actively refuse to work during the German occupation ( Mengelberg, Herman Krebbers, Cor de Groot, Eduard Flipse, Jan Koetsier, Paul Van Kempen...et al.,accepted commissions, continued to perform...) - accepting that in doing so, they would NOT earn a living.
Badings is described as an overly ambitious, somewhat naive and spiteful figure..who saw "opportunities"!
Peter
Quote from: pjme on April 26, 2008, 02:46:48 PM
Badings is described as an overly ambitious, somewhat naive and spiteful figure..who saw "opportunities"!
Well, that makes sense. Most artists are only human.
In Samama's book (page 176) one can even read that Badings helped Sem Dresden's wife ( Sem Dresden was a Jewish composer - condemned to forced labour) in getting work and actually managed later to have mr. Dresden relieved of digging trenches....
But of course, this does not diminish the fact that Badings ( possibly "inspired" by his wife!) collaborated with the Germans.
Quote from: pjme on April 27, 2008, 12:05:35 AM
In Samama's book (page 176) one can even read that Badings helped Sem Dresden's wife ( Sem Dresden was a Jewish composer - condemned to forced labour) in getting work and actually managed later to have mr. Dresden relieved of digging trenches....
But of course, this does not diminish the fact that Badings ( possibly "inspired" by his wife!) collaborated with the Germans.
Well, Badings was obviously a complex individual - I hope the same goes for his music!
A new release from CPO, Rontgen.......which I ordered.
Quote from: Harry on June 17, 2008, 06:24:07 AM
A new release from CPO, Rontgen.......which I ordered.
Thanks for that info', Harry!
CPO continues the good work for Dutch composers. Looking forward to further releases of Badings and van Gilse.
Still to be released by CPO this year are Bischoff's Symphony No.2, Bruno Walter's Symphony No.1, Felix Weingartner's Symphony No.6, Emil von Reznicek's Symphony No.1 and Saygun's Piano Concertos Nos. 1 and 2. One a month?
Quote from: Dundonnell on June 17, 2008, 07:44:07 AM
Thanks for that info', Harry!
CPO continues the good work for Dutch composers. Looking forward to further releases of Badings and van Gilse.
Still to be released by CPO this year are Bischoff's Symphony No.2, Bruno Walter's Symphony No.1, Felix Weingartner's Symphony No.6, Emil von Reznicek's Symphony No.1 and Saygun's Piano Concertos Nos. 1 and 2. One a month?
I eargerly await the Bischoff, Weingartner since I collect him, Reznicek, but I pass on Sayguns piano concertos, and Walter, but then again, I have no idea what to expect from him, do you know him D?
Quote from: Harry on June 17, 2008, 09:10:23 AM
I eargerly await the Bischoff, Weingartner since I collect him, Reznicek, but I pass on Sayguns piano concertos, and Walter, but then again, I have no idea what to expect from him, do you know him D?
Not sure which 'him' you are referring to-Saygun or Walter?
If it was Bruno Walter, then no I have not heard anything composed by him. I would assume however that his 1st Symphony(first performed in 1909) would be in the Central European tradition, probably influenced by Walter's hero, Mahler, and not dissimilar(?) to Weingartner's music.
If, on the other hand, you are referring to Saygun then- yes I do know his five symphonies, violin, viola and cello concertos. These are all fine works by the most distinguished of Turkish composers. To my ear they do not sound particularly Turkish compositions. Saygun was obviously influenced by mid European music-Bartok and Hindemith come to mind. He is worth exploring.
Quote from: Dundonnell on June 17, 2008, 03:34:28 PM
Not sure which 'him' you are referring to-Saygun or Walter?
If it was Bruno Walter, then no I have not heard anything composed by him. I would assume however that his 1st Symphony(first performed in 1909) would be in the Central European tradition, probably influenced by Walter's hero, Mahler, and not dissimilar(?) to Weingartner's music.
If, on the other hand, you are referring to Saygun then- yes I do know his five symphonies, violin, viola and cello concertos. These are all fine works by the most distinguished of Turkish composers. To my ear they do not sound particularly Turkish compositions. Saygun was obviously influenced by mid European music-Bartok and Hindemith come to mind. He is worth exploring.
Sorry for the confusion, I was indeed referring too Bruno Walter, and after your story I will check him out.
Saygun is represented in my collection, by his symphonies, violin, viola, and cello concertos too, so I am sorry about this confusion too, but you summed his characteristics up very nicely. I am not a great admirer of piano concertos, and that is the reason why I will probably pass on Saygun's concertos, unless you tell me, that they are earth shattering! :)
Quote from: Harry on June 17, 2008, 11:10:31 PM
Sorry for the confusion, I was indeed referring too Bruno Walter, and after your story I will check him out.
Saygun is represented in my collection, by his symphonies, violin, viola, and cello concertos too, so I am sorry about this confusion too, but you summed his characteristics up very nicely. I am not a great admirer of piano concertos, and that is the reason why I will probably pass on Saygun's concertos, unless you tell me, that they are earth shattering! :)
For a brief but informative review of Leon Botstein's American performance of Walter's 1st symphony-
http://www.robertaonthearts.com/id233.html
Quote from: Dundonnell on June 18, 2008, 07:45:48 AM
For a brief but informative review of Leon Botstein's American performance of Walter's 1st symphony-
http://www.robertaonthearts.com/id233.html
Thank you very much for this Dundonnell! :)
I just wanted to bump this thread, and thank all of you on it for this discussion. I found this thread while googling-- which is why I've joined this forum. It's so great to see the combination of scholarship and passion for music.
Orthel's THird Symphony and the Invocation for Orchestra just kill me!! Stick a fork in me, I'm done! I've discovered a lot of great music since I started prowling this forum (my wallet may not forgive me) but these two in particularly really nailed me!
I don't have much to add, but wanted to thank all of you for sharing....
Quote from: jowcol on October 21, 2008, 01:57:54 PM
I just wanted to bump this thread, and thank all of you on it for this discussion. I found this thread while googling-- which is why I've joined this forum. It's so great to see the combination of scholarship and passion for music.
Orthel's THird Symphony and the Invocation for Orchestra just kill me!! Stick a fork in me, I'm done! I've discovered a lot of great music since I started prowling this forum (my wallet may not forgive me) but these two in particularly really nailed me!
I don't have much to add, but wanted to thank all of you for sharing....
Thanks for the nice remarks! What about his Second Symphony and the Scherzo No. 2, my personal favourites (plus the
Evocazione)?
Quote from: jowcol on October 21, 2008, 01:57:54 PM
I just wanted to bump this thread, and thank all of you on it for this discussion. I found this thread while googling-- which is why I've joined this forum. It's so great to see the combination of scholarship and passion for music.
Orthel's THird Symphony and the Invocation for Orchestra just kill me!! Stick a fork in me, I'm done! I've discovered a lot of great music since I started prowling this forum (my wallet may not forgive me) but these two in particularly really nailed me!
I don't have much to add, but wanted to thank all of you for sharing....
Welcome in the club jowcol!
Apart from Jezetha, you're only the second one to respond that positive to Léon Orthel. As you might have read, I personally couldn't suppress my enthusiasm for his music, a rather recent discovery for me. I regard his Second Symphony a genuine masterpiece, but like the other ones very much as well, and share all of your enthusiasm. Great that a random googling act brought us here together!
Quote from: Christo on October 21, 2008, 09:36:05 PM
Welcome in the club jowcol!
Apart from Jezetha, you're only the second one to respond that positive to Léon Orthel. As you might have read, I personally couldn't suppress my enthusiasm for his music, a rather recent discovery for me. I regard his Second Symphony a genuine masterpiece, but like the other ones very much as well, and share all of your enthusiasm. Great that a random googling act brought us here together!
Oh Johan/Christo....
mea culpa..if I have not, as seems probable, expressed my admiration for Orthel previously and my thanks to my Dutch friends, including of course yourself, in making me aware of this fine composer I grovel in apology :-[ :(
I have-as an act of very pleasant penance-just listened again to the 3rd and 4th symphonies and that powerful little piece Evocazione with its stabbing chords and drum rolls.. I would have listened to the 2nd symphony and Scherzo No.2 but I seem, very stupidly, to have muddled up the burned discs with these pieces on them! All is not lost however-I still have these works on my pc and will burn fresh copies $:)
The Third Symphony is a very fine work indeed! It is so obviously a wartime piece full of sadness and a degree of bitterness but most moving. The string passages frequently remind me of the Vaughan Williams of the Pastoral Symphony or the last movement of the 6th. i am not a great fan of romantic piano concertos and the 4th Symphony is a Piano Concerto in all but name but it is also a good work and the closing pages in particular impress me.
It is so sad to re-read the first page of the booklet of the Etcetera disc containing the 3rd and 4th symphonies and reflect on the lost generation to which Orthel belongs. Composers who, apparently, were frequently performed in the 40s, 50s and 60s but are now forgotten. The extraordinary fact that the Germans required all Dutch orchestras to have at least 20% of their concerts devoted to Dutch music during the war! (Can we extend this morsel of gratitude to an occupying power?? I should not and will not express an opinion!). The fact that every Dutch orchestra around 1950 had a Dutch conductor who regularly performed Dutch music. Plus ca change indeed!
My sincere apologies for not commenting on Orthel sooner!
Quote from: Christo on April 15, 2008, 12:46:43 AM
Léon Orthel, Scherzi III per orchestra a tutti mani &c. (1961) [11:11]
Limburg Symphony Orchestra, André Rieu (père), rec. AVRO Radio, 31 October 1961.
http://www.mediafire.com/?jfxxm22zgtn (http://www.mediafire.com/?jfxxm22zgtn)
`Léon Orthel (1905-1985) wrote his virtuoso Scherzi III, `homage to the memory of my uncle', as a result of a commission for an opening piece for the first Dutch Paralympics. Orthel took inspiration from the tradition of the yearly festival of Lent, widely celebrated in the southern provinces. The premiere was conducted by Andre Rieu during the closing days of the festival with the leading orchestra of the region. The rather filmic and rhythmic introduction is followed by a long lyric passage mainly in the lower strings, which is so characteristic of Orchel's orchestral writing. It is followed by a warlike march leading to a second climax, after which the work is concluded by references to the opening material. The composer was also inspired by reading Rilke's Fasching and on seeing Hieronymus Bosch' paintings, originating in the same region.' (Wytze Klukhuhn)
(MUCH) LATER EDIT: Beware of this! After all the postings of Orthel's music, I decided to add a practical joke, as could have been deduced from the nonsense title and commentary. In reality, the music is the Estonian composer's, Veljo Tormis' Ouverture No. 2 (1958) - which reminds me a bit of Orthel's style.
Tormis' work is to be found at this twofer:
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/610r2ADJWdL._SL500_AA280_.jpg)
What!! You mean...I....Oh Johan/Christo :-[ :-[
You had me fooled! I burned this onto a disc in the middle of other Orthel pieces. (That is before you sent me a further copy of genuinely Orthel.)
"...as could be deduced..."?? Well not by this gullible idiot :(
Hemmm ::). Just happened to see this particular thread. My knowledge of dutch composers' works is woefully limited. I would welcome a few suggestions of readily available suggestions. My preferences are towards orchestral works. So far I only have discs of Juriaan Andriessen, Keuris and de Meij (plus a few classical era ones).
Quote from: Lilas Pastia on October 22, 2008, 06:52:37 PM
Hemmm ::). Just happened to see this particular thread. My knowledge of dutch composers' works is woefully limited. I would welcome a few suggestions of readily available suggestions. My preferences are towards orchestral works. So far I only have discs of Juriaan Andriessen, Keuris and de Meij (plus a few classical era ones).
Why don't you try Matthijs Vermeulen (1888-1967), the great outsider of Dutch music? He wrote seven symphonies, chamber works and songs. In this folder you'll find historic recordings of his first two symphonies (conducted by Haitink and Van Beinum respectively), and his wonderful
Passacaille et Cortège, incidental music to a play by Dutch poet Martinus Nijhoff. The Second (1919-1920) is Vermeulen's
Sacre...
http://www.mediafire.com/?sharekey=191b3b8d4da3c14f4012e8015643d9c8f9cdc4cdc5907fdc
There is a Vermeulen thread, too:
http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,5426.0.html
Thanks, Johan!
There seem to be two files each for the symphonies. Are they different peformances, or are they in two files?
Quote from: Lilas Pastia on October 23, 2008, 06:08:30 AM
Thanks, Johan!
There seem to be two files each for the symphonies. Are they different peformances, or are they in two files?
Yes, they are all different - those files where no conductor is mentioned are studio performances. I'll edit the info later today. Sorry.
Symfonie Nr 2, 'Prélude a la nouvelle journée'.mp3 -
live recording Rotterdam Philharmonic, Otto Ketting (10 February 1978)
Symfonie Nr 1, 'Symphonia carminum'.mp3 -
studio recording Rotterdam Philharmonic, Roelof van Driesten (24 June 1985)
You're the best, Johan ;).
I am listening to the Orthel Symphony No.2 'Piccola Sinfonia' again. Despite the fact that the recording is mono from 1959 the work does make a really fine impression of power and driving passion :) A moving work indeed!
What a very good conductor was Willem van Otterloo! Sad that he should have died as the result of a car accident in Australia in 1978.
What a golden period the 1950s must have been for Dutch music with van Beinum at the Concertgebouw, Flipse at the Rotterdam Philharmonic, van Otterloo in the Hague and van Kempen then Haitink at the Netherlands Radio Philharmonic.
With reference to an earlier remark in a post by me- do any of our Dutch friends know why the Germans insisted on the 20% Dutch music minimum in concerts during the war?
Oh and btw...the Orthel Scherzo No.2 is a little masterpiece!! What a superbly orchestrated, ferociously grim piece!!
Marvellous :) :)
Quote from: Dundonnell on October 24, 2008, 03:34:40 PM
I am listening to the Orthel Symphony No.2 'Piccola Sinfonia' again. Despite the fact that the recording is mono from 1959 the work does make a really fine impression of power and driving passion :) A moving work indeed!
What a very good conductor was Willem van Otterloo! Sad that he should have died as the result of a car accident in Australia in 1978.
What a golden period the 1950s must have been for Dutch music with van Beinum at the Concertgebouw, Flipse at the Rotterdam Philharmonic, van Otterloo in the Hague and van Kempen then Haitink at the Netherlands Radio Philharmonic.
With reference to an earlier remark in a post by me- do any of our Dutch friends know why the Germans insisted on the 20% Dutch music minimum in concerts during the war?
Great to read your verdict on Léon Orthel! The sad thing being, that he never received much recognition. He's widely regarded a minor composer and never mentioned among the leading Dutch twentieth century composers. Hadn't the Etcetera label launched the double CD with his
Third and Fourth Symphonies, I myself would perhaps never have "discovered" him. Only after that release did I look for Van Otterloo's perrformance of the
Second (Piccola Sinfonia, a fine 1959 recording, but if I recall well it's in stereo, not mono).
The only reason I decided to order for his Etcetera release being my admiration for the
Scherzo per orchestra No. 2, that I only "discovered" a year earlier, and a vague memory of really liking the
Evocazione I once heard on the Radio in the early 1980s. So, the Third Symphony really came like a revelation and the Second even more. Let's hope one day someone will record all six Symphonies and his other orchestral workd. This (Dutch) site lists all of his compositions: http://www.leonorthel100.com (http://www.leonorthel100.com)
The German occupation (1940-45) not only brought with it the condition that 20-30 % of all performances had to be of music by Dutch composers, it even initially created an Amsterdam-based "Joodsch Symphonie-Orkest" (Jewish SO) with members who were banned from all ""Dutch"" orchestras. In both cases, the aim was to underline the Dutch "national" culture - as an expression of "Germanic" culture, of course.
There were many reasons. ONe being, that the "Reichskommissariat" for the Netherlands was led by an Austrian music-lover, Dr. Arthur Seyss-Inquart, who took a lively interest in the music culture of the country he was now a sort of dictator of. Another reason was the long-term German interest in Dutch culture as an exotic corner in the "Greater German" realm, stemming from the early days of German nationalism (e.g. Schiller and Goethe, and the 19th C. discovery of Rembrandt and 17th C. Dutch painters school, all regarded "German" in this wider sense). So, a stress on "Dutch national culture" was regarded an integral part of the policy that aimed at convincing the Dutch public of their "Germanic" roots, especially in the early years 1940 and 1941, before the war became grimmer. :-\
See e.g.: Pauline Micheels, Het Nederlandse muziekleven tijdens de Duitse bezetting (´The Dutch music scene during the Greman occupation´)
Since Beethoven's ancestors were Dutch, it was probably important to at least express interest in the country's culture. Just a thought, of course.
Thank you very much indeed, Johan, for that very interesting and informative post!
Yes I understand now the thinking of the German occupying authorities. It is largely as I had guessed-the idea of impressing upon the Dutch public the links between their culture and that of Germany.
What I didn't know however was the fact that Seyss-Inquart was a music lover! Another tragic case of an intelligent and cultured man swept away by his prejudices and corrupted by his adherance to the evil doctrines of his time :( The ironic thing, of course, is that Seyss-Inquart was actually-at least on his father's side-a Czech!
I am very definitely now convinced of Orthel's great merit as a composer and join you in hoping that we one day get good modern recordings of all of the symphonies(CPO?)
(Btw, your notes on the Orthel Symphony No.2 do say that the performance was released on a mono LP-
http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,2630.140.html )
Quote from: Dundonnell on October 22, 2008, 06:35:36 PM
What!! You mean...I....Oh Johan/Christo :-[ :-[
I
am deeply sorry indeed.
Mea maxima culpa. 8)
Quote from: Dundonnell on October 25, 2008, 04:59:30 AM
(Btw, your notes on the Orthel Symphony No.2 do say that the performance was released on a mono LP-
I don't think so? Anyhow: the recording is in Stereo - and a fine one too. :)
Quote from: Dundonnell on October 24, 2008, 03:45:19 PM
Oh and btw...the Orthel Scherzo No.2 is a little masterpiece!! What a superbly orchestrated, ferociously grim piece!!
Marvellous :) :)
Both you and Jezetha seem to hold that extraordinary opinion - and I don't dare to disagree. ;)
Quote from: Christo on October 25, 2008, 11:08:19 AM
Both you and Jezetha seem to hold that extraordinary opinion - and I don't dare to disagree. ;)
You are wise as well as cautious.
Scrolling through the Gramophone archives (http://www.gramophone.net) - incredible, you can read all issues from 1923 on there! - I stumbled upon an LP I never encountered before. The Gramophone July 1966 reviews a performance of Léon Orthel's Second Scherzo for orchestra - the Royal Concertgebouw Orchestra under Bernard Haitink and Rein Jordans.
a. Louis Andriessen, Nocturnen
b. Marius Flothuis, Canti e Giuochi, op. 66
c. Léon Orthel, Scherzo No. 2, Op. 38.
Concertgebouw Orchestra conducted by Bernard Haitink (a and b), Rein Jordans (c) with Elisabeth Lugt (soprano). Donemus Audio-Visual Series iJ DAVS6504.
From the review:>> Marius Flothuis (born 1914) is obviously likely to write in a much more easily comprehensible style and so he does, even though his Songs and Games was composed five years later than Andriessen's Nocturnes. This is nicely scored and is pretty easily enjoyable at a first go. Even more so is the Scherzo of Leon Orthel (born 1905), a 3/8 scherzo with contrasting slower music that may date it (compare our own earlier romantic composers), but not, in my view, to its disadvantage. <<
A plug for Alphons Diepenbrock, whose 'Marysas Suite' is a very haunting and atmospheric work (thank you Christo :)), the opening of which reminds me of Meuleman's lovely 'Pliny's Fountain'.
I must investigate Orthel (but not at £105 for a single CD on amazon UK).
Quote from: vandermolen on December 29, 2008, 01:55:49 PM
A plug for Alphons Diepenbrock, whose 'Marysas Suite' is a very haunting and atmospheric work (thank you Christo :)), the opening of which reminds me of Meuleman's lovely 'Pliny's Fountain'.
I must investigate Orthel (but not at £105 for a single CD on amazon UK).
The Etcetera double CD of Orthel's 3rd and 4th Symphonies and instrumental music can be bought from Presto for £25.44(cheaper than on Amazon).
Well worth the money too :)
Quote from: Dundonnell on December 29, 2008, 03:58:35 PM
The Etcetera double CD of Orthel's 3rd and 4th Symphonies and instrumental music can be bought from Presto for £25.44(cheaper than on Amazon).
Well worth the money too :)
Thanks Colin.
There's a Chandos collection of Diepenbrock's orchestral "Songs " - tone poems for orchestra or solo voice and orchestra. It failed to leave much of an impression on me, but that was before I was introduced to the music of Vermeulen, Orthel and a few others. I' pulled it out and will give them a spin this week. Thanks for the tip, Jeffrey !
Quote from: Christo on December 26, 2008, 02:27:25 AM
Scrolling through the Gramophone archives (http://www.gramophone.net) - incredible, you can read all issues from 1923 on there! - I stumbled upon an LP I never encountered before. The Gramophone July 1966 reviews a performance of Léon Orthel's Second Scherzo for orchestra - the Royal Concertgebouw Orchestra under Bernard Haitink and Rein Jordans.
a. Louis Andriessen, Nocturnen
b. Marius Flothuis, Canti e Giuochi, op. 66
c. Léon Orthel, Scherzo No. 2, Op. 38.
Concertgebouw Orchestra conducted by Bernard Haitink (a and b), Rein Jordans (c) with Elisabeth Lugt (soprano). Donemus Audio-Visual Series iJ DAVS6504.
From the review:>> Marius Flothuis (born 1914) is obviously likely to write in a much more easily comprehensible style and so he does, even though his Songs and Games was composed five years later than Andriessen's Nocturnes. This is nicely scored and is pretty easily enjoyable at a first go. Even more so is the Scherzo of Leon Orthel (born 1905), a 3/8 scherzo with contrasting slower music that may date it (compare our own earlier romantic composers), but not, in my view, to its disadvantage. <<
Fascinating! I would dearly love to hear that performance!
Quote from: Christo on April 11, 2008, 12:19:07 AM
At present, I'm much more concerned with everything I can find by Léon Orthel (1905-1985). I was extremely happy to find that the reissue of a series of radio recordings opens with his great Evocazione per orchestra that I heard in the Radio in the 1970s and really love to hear again: muscular, colourfull music, not unlike Tubin, Englund, or Barber.
The greatest discovery however being his Third Symphony from 1943 - a real war symphony, with even hidden references better not known to the occupier. Now that we are rediscovering Richard Arnell in the UK, and for very good reasons, we should do the same with Orthel.
(http://www.jpc.de/image/w600/front/0/8711801101965.jpg)
I am listening to Leon Orthel's Third Symphony at the moment - a fine discovery. Johan is right to highlight this war-time work. Tubin and Barber do come to mind at times (as does Shostakovich) but it is a fine, gritty work in its own right. Darkly moving and searching but in no way sentimental. Great defiant march-like ending with eloquent coda. The short, compulsive 'Evocazione' is great fun, with a real sense of Tubin's music.
Quote from: vandermolen on January 09, 2009, 03:51:18 PM
I am listening to Leon Orthel's Third Symphony at the moment - a fine discovery. Johan is right to highlight this war-time work. Tubin and Barber do come to mind at times (as does Shostakovich) but it is a fine, gritty work in its own right. Darkly moving and searching but in no way sentimental. Great defiant march-like ending with eloquent coda. The short, compulsive 'Evocazione' is great fun, with a real sense of Tubin's music.
Great to learn that you took the trouble to find a copy! (Hope it didn't cost you 25 GBP :P). Most of us agree here, that the Second Symphony, Piccola Sinfonia from 1940, is even better. But that one is only available in a box with Willem van Otterloo conducting the Residentie Orchestra (The Hague) in the 1950s. Could I send you a copy? :)
Quote from: Christo on January 09, 2009, 10:34:04 PM
Great to learn that you took the trouble to find a copy! (Hope it didn't cost you 25 GBP :P). Most of us agree here, that the Second Symphony, Piccola Sinfonia from 1940, is even better. But that one is only available in a box with Willem van Otterloo conducting the Residentie Orchestra (The Hague) in the 1950s. Could I send you a copy? :)
André knows it already, thanks to an enthusiastic fellow member. ;) I remember him saying that it is a real symphony in spite of its short duration. But let the (great) man speak for himself! ;D
Quote from: Christo on January 09, 2009, 10:34:04 PM
Great to learn that you took the trouble to find a copy! (Hope it didn't cost you 25 GBP :P). Most of us agree here, that the Second Symphony, Piccola Sinfonia from 1940, is even better. But that one is only available in a box with Willem van Otterloo conducting the Residentie Orchestra (The Hague) in the 1950s. Could I send you a copy? :)
That would be very nice. Thank you Johan but, in return I shall insist on sending you 'The Krasnodonians' by Maraev. It will be nice to receive a legitimate package through the post rather than having to indulge in an elaborate smuggling ritual 8)
Quote from: Jezetha on January 10, 2009, 03:53:09 AM
André knows it already, thanks to an enthusiastic fellow member. ;) I remember him saying that it is a real symphony in spite of its short duration. But let the (great) man speak for himself! ;D
:-[ I thought André (Lilas Pastia) was reacting to Christo's post... Stupid...
Quote from: Jezetha on January 10, 2009, 01:27:09 PM
:-[ I thought André (Lilas Pastia) was reacting to Christo's post... Stupid...
I simply assumed you went mad ;) ;)
I must have missed something... ::) Sorry for not being very assiduous here (or elsewhere for that matter :P). But yes, I reiterate that Orthel's symphonies are all excellent (well, 2-4 for I haven't come across his first yet). But the second is probably the most interesting. Imposing and utterly confident, it's much more than the sum of its notes.
Quote from: Lilas Pastia on January 10, 2009, 05:26:56 PM
I must have missed something... ::) Sorry for not being very assiduous here (or elsewhere for that matter :P). But yes, I reiterate that Orthel's symphonies are all excellent (well, 2-4 for I haven't come across his first yet). But the second is probably the most interesting. Imposing and utterly confident, it's much more than the sum of its notes.
Just for the record ;D....Orthel wrote six symphonies in total. Nos. 5 and 6 date from 1960 and 1961 respectively. No.5 is a short piece(16 minutes) and is subtitled 'Musica iniziale', while No.6 is a big piece(35 minutes). Although he lived another 24 years Orthel wrote no more symphonies after 1961. Neither symphony has been recorded-to my knowledge. CPO?
Listing of Orthel's compositions(in Dutch)-
http://catalogus.donemus.nl/minisis/werkenlijstNL.php?/144/muzisn_link/werkenlijst/n+ORTHEL,%20LEON@?COMMANDSEARCH
Thanks for the correction. I had wrongly assumed #4 was the last of the lot sinc eI had never heard of any successor. So we can hope there could be a recording of 5 and 6. Has the first been recorded? I don't see it listed in that link ??
You are right! I withdraw the word 'full' from my description of the Donemus link ;D The list does not include much that Orthel wrote before 1947.
The 1st Symphony dates from 1936(when Orthel was developing his idiom). It has not been recorded.
Well, we should be thankful for what we have, then! Seriously, as I have mentioned soemtime late last year (say, about a month ago ;D), discovering the orchestral music of Vermeulen and Orthel has been one of the the highlights of my musical year.
And thank God for that, because it's been a rather poor musical year, other than amassing loads of discs it'll take me years to get down to :P
Quote from: Lilas Pastia on January 10, 2009, 08:16:57 PM
And thank God for that, because it's been a rather poor musical year, other than amassing loads of discs it'll take me years to get down to :P
This is commonly known as : "You're Taking the Words Right out of My Mouth" :-\
Per a PM request, I am beginning to reupload a bunch of music from earlier in the thread. This time I am putting it on Rapidshare so it remains permenently available (mediafire proved a bit problematic last time). I'll add more as they get upped.
Escher - Musique pour l'esprit en deuil, Passacaglia (http://rapidshare.com/files/182801609/Escher_-_Musique_pour_l_esprit_en_deuil__etc__Haitink__Concertgebouw__2005-02-25_.rar) // L. Andriessen - De Staat (http://rapidshare.com/files/182807663/Andriessen__L_-_De_Staat__Vis__Dutch_Wind_Ensemble__1976__Donemus_LP_.rar) // H. Andriessen - Symphony No.2, Kuhnau Variations (http://rapidshare.com/files/182811847/Andriessen__H_-_Symphony_No.2__etc__Vakoulsky__Leitner__NH_PO__Hague_Res._Orch_.rar) // Wagenaar - Sinfonietta, Cyrano de Bergerac Overture (http://rapidshare.com/files/182816582/Wagenaar_-_Sinfonietta__etc__Otterloo__Hague_Res._Orchestra__1958__Fontana_LP_.rar) // Wagenaar, H. Andreissen - Cyrano de Bergerac, Organ Concerto (http://rapidshare.com/files/182824261/Wagenaar__H._Andreissen_-_Cyrano_de_Bergerac__Organ_Concerto.rar) // Gilse - Symphony No.2 (http://rapidshare.com/files/182839295/Gilse_-_Symphony_No.2__Stenz__Concertgebouw__2007-01-26_.rar) // Verbey - Clarinet Concerto (http://rapidshare.com/files/182870818/Verbey_-_Clarinet_Concerto__etc__Stenz__Douwes__Rotterdam_PO__2006-01-13_.rar) // Gouvy - Symphony No.6, Sinfonietta (http://rapidshare.com/files/182880689/Gouvy_-_Symphony_No.6__etc__Mercier__Saarbruecken_RSO__2007-03-03_.rar) // Zweers - Symphony No.3 (http://rapidshare.com/files/182889263/Zweers_-_Symphony_No.3__Vonk__Hague_Res._Orchestra__1979__Olympia_.rar) // Röntgen - Cello Concerto No.2 (http://rapidshare.com/files/182930843/Roentgen_-_Cello_Concerto_No.2.rar) // Röntgen - Piano Trio No.3, String Quartet No.2 (http://rapidshare.com/files/182968313/Roentgen_-_String_Quartet_No.2__Piano_Quintet_No.3.rar) // Röntgen - Piano Trio No.4, String Quartet No.14 (http://rapidshare.com/files/182939453/Roentgen_-_Piano_Trio_No.4__String_Quartet_No.15__Storioni_Trio__Park_nyi_Quartet_.rar) // Diepenbrock - Te Deum (http://rapidshare.com/files/182942731/Diepenbrock_-_Te_Deum.rar) // Diepenbrock - Elektra Suite (http://rapidshare.com/files/182943929/Diepenbrock_-_Elektra_Suite__Vonk__WDR_SO_Koeln_.rar) // Badings - Cello Concerto No.2 (http://rapidshare.com/files/182952970/Badings_-_Cello_Concerto_No.2__Van_Beinum__Boomkamp__1941-03-27_.rar) // Badings - Cello Concerto No.2 (different recording) (http://rapidshare.com/files/182953096/Badings_-_Cello_Concerto_No.2__etc__Schaefer__Dutch_Radio_Chamber_Phil.__2007_.rar) // Schat - Houdini (http://rapidshare.com/files/182965928/Schat_-_Houdini__a_circus_opera__Vonk__Concertgebouw__1977__Donemus_LP_.rar) // Dopper - Symphony No.7 (http://rapidshare.com/files/197166971/Dopper_-_Sym_No.7.rar) // Dopper - Symphony No.1 (http://rapidshare.com/files/198411841/Dopper_-_Sym_No.1__Kussmaul__North_Netherlands_Orch_.rar) // Dopper - Gothic Chaconne (http://rapidshare.com/files/198415916/Dopper_-_Ciaconna_Gotica__Bakels__Netherlands_RSO_.mp3)
The Kuhnau Variations should appeal to Britten fans, quite nice light-footed romanticism.
Great initiative!
[Some people have reported downloading from MediaFire didn't go very well; and Rapidshare is giving me trouble with uploading... Count yourself lucky!]
Dutch composers rock ;D ;D
(Doesn't sound right coming from me somehow :( It's all these young Americans on here you know!!)
Quote from: Dundonnell on January 13, 2009, 07:59:12 AM
Dutch composers rock ;D ;D
(Doesn't sound right coming from me somehow :( It's all these young Americans on here you know!!)
If you had said
Dutch composers suck I
really would have been mad. ;)
You don't want to tick Jezetha off . . . .
Is this Théodore Gouvy you're offering ?
Quote from: Lilas Pastia on January 13, 2009, 04:05:16 PM
Is this Théodore Gouvy you're offering ?
The file says "Louis Théodore Gouvy (1819–1898)" but from looking him up, he doesn't have much to do with the Netherlands. I wonder why he was included in the series.
Quote from: Lethe on January 13, 2009, 04:12:17 PM
The file says "Louis Théodore Gouvy (1819–1898)" but from looking him up, he doesn't have much to do with the Netherlands. I wonder why he was included in the series.
Must be a Dutch grandmother then!
OH, this download limit thing. This will take me a few days...
Quote from: springrite on January 13, 2009, 04:22:06 PM
OH, this download limit thing. This will take me a few days...
If you have a dynamic IP (I can't believe ISPs class a static IP as a "perk") then you can just disconnect and reload your internet after a minute or so, and it should negate the Rapidshare limit.
Théodore Gouvy (like Florent Schmitt) was a lorrain composer - ie, he hailed from a portion of France that was annexed back and forth by Germany and France between 1815 and 1945 (Alsace and Sarre were the others). When Gouvy was born in 1819, Lorraine had been handed over to Germany under the Versailles Treaty, following Napoleon's defeat at Waterloo. Therefore, Gouvy could not obtain French citizenship before he was 32 years of age (1851).
He is a very good composer, the author of some large scale chamber works and a very fine Requiem. The file comprises his Sinfonietta, op. 80 and Symphony no. 6, neither of which has been recorded (indeed, I wasn't aware of their existence at all!). A real find: I can't thank you enough for that! :-*
Quote from: Lethe on January 13, 2009, 04:35:44 PM
If you have a dynamic IP (I can't believe ISPs class a static IP as a "perk") then you can just disconnect and reload your internet after a minute or so, and it should negate the Rapidshare limit.
Uh, much better. Thanks!
I am feeling so Dutch now, I think I will ask Vanessa to pay for half for the lunch we are about to have.
Thirteen pages so far, and still no mention of Institute of Sonology. For shame.
Here's some music from three alumni, Wouter Snoei:
http://www.woutersnoei.nl/composities/pulse/files/pulse.mp3 (http://www.woutersnoei.nl/composities/pulse/files/pulse.mp3)
Alo Allik:
http://tehis.net/sounds/sundimatus.mp3 (http://tehis.net/sounds/sundimatus.mp3)
And Jorrit Tamminga:
http://kmt.hku.nl/~jorrit/mp3/bosch.mp3 (http://kmt.hku.nl/~jorrit/mp3/bosch.mp3)
And, someone who's just Dutch, Michel van der Aa:
http://www.doublea.net/media_audio/Second%20Self-live.mp3 (http://www.doublea.net/media_audio/Second%20Self-live.mp3)
All these people are alive. I know you folks prefer your composers to be dead (or at least to write as if they were ;)), but too bad. (No one's forcing you to listen to any of this.)
Quote from: springrite on January 13, 2009, 08:13:54 PM
Uh, much better. Thanks!
I am feeling so Dutch now, I think I will ask Vanessa to pay for half for the lunch we are about to have.
:D ;D ;)
Quote from: Lilas Pastia on January 13, 2009, 06:50:15 PM
Théodore Gouvy (like Florent Schmitt) was a lorrain composer - ie, he hailed from a portion of France that was annexed back and forth by Germany and France between 1815 and 1945 (Alsace and Sarre were the others). When Gouvy was born in 1819, Lorraine had been handed over to Germany under the Versailles Treaty, following Napoleon's defeat at Waterloo. Therefore, Gouvy could not obtain French citizenship before he was 32 years of age (1851).
He is a very good composer, the author of some large scale chamber works and a very fine Requiem. The file comprises his Sinfonietta, op. 80 and Symphony no. 6, neither of which has been recorded (indeed, I wasn't aware of their existence at all!). A real find: I can't thank you enough for that! :-*
Sorry to be pedantic...it is the old History teacher in me ;D...but I think that you are referring to the Saarland rather than Lorraine.
Gouvy was born in the Sarre, most of which was indeed handed over to Prussia(rather than Germany) after the Congress of Vienna in 1815. In 1919, as a consequence of the Treaty of Versailles, the Saarland was placed under French administration as a League of Nations mandated territory and returned to Germany after a plebiscite in 1935.
Downloads mostly complete. The listening will commence tomorrow morn. Thanks!
PS: Can't get onto mediafire here in China, this missed out on all the Dutch and Polish uploads there for the past month.
Quote from: Dundonnell on January 14, 2009, 03:45:16 AM
Sorry to be pedantic...it is the old History teacher in me ;D...but I think that you are referring to the Saarland rather than Lorraine.
Gouvy was born in the Sarre, most of which was indeed handed over to Prussia(rather than Germany) after the Congress of Vienna in 1815. In 1919, as a consequence of the Treaty of Versailles, the Saarland was placed under French administration as a League of Nations mandated territory and returned to Germany after a plebiscite in 1935.
It's even more complicated than that, or at least less clear cut. Gouvy was indeed born in Saarland, in a small town that is now part of Germany (Saarbrücken sits right on the border). Sarre is a region that came into being over 1000 years ago and during its existence it covered an area that is now divided between France, Germany and Luxembourg. Politically it was placed under the tutelage of the Dukes of Lorraine and Bishops of Metz. Lorraine, like Brittany or Burgundy used to be an independent Duchy before it was absorbed by the Kingdom of France. That's why Gouvy is referred to in articles or books as a composer from Lorraine - no mention of Sarre at all. For example the KV617 booklet of the Requiem makes a big fuss about "Gouvy - Un compositeur lorrain".
The confusion is in part due to the fact that France has always been a centralizing state, and smaller entities were routinely absorbed by greater ones and never recognized as entities by the central power. On the contrary, Germany has a long tradition of independent states within the greater federation. Therefore today's Saarland has its own distinct political apparatus as one of Germany's
Land. As one of the Allied Forces of Occupation after WWII, France fought tooth and nail to keep the german Saarland from being returned to Germany. It encouraged the formation of an independent state with its own constitution. It even participated as an independent state in the 1952 Summer Olympics. It became officially part of the Bundesrepublik Deutschland in 1957.
Moving back to topic, can someone upload
Roentgen's c# minor symphony on Rapidshare? That stupid file just won't work on my computer. It' a musicmatch file which freezes the instant it's opened :P.
Quote from: some guy on January 13, 2009, 10:22:03 PM
Thirteen pages so far, and still no mention of Institute of Sonology. For shame.
Here's some music from three alumni, Wouter Snoei:
http://www.woutersnoei.nl/composities/pulse/files/pulse.mp3 (http://www.woutersnoei.nl/composities/pulse/files/pulse.mp3)
Alo Allik:
http://tehis.net/sounds/sundimatus.mp3 (http://tehis.net/sounds/sundimatus.mp3)
And Jorrit Tamminga:
http://kmt.hku.nl/~jorrit/mp3/bosch.mp3 (http://kmt.hku.nl/~jorrit/mp3/bosch.mp3)
And, someone who's just Dutch, Michel van der Aa:
http://www.doublea.net/media_audio/Second%20Self-live.mp3 (http://www.doublea.net/media_audio/Second%20Self-live.mp3)
All these people are alive. I know you folks prefer your composers to be dead (or at least to write as if they were ;)), but too bad. (No one's forcing you to listen to any of this.)
Thanks for introducing the music of 3 new composers to me. Unfortunately I just have never been able to enjoy that particular soundworld.
Of course
Aa is much more mainstream Dutch in the Andriessen mode and I do enjoy his music. I have about a dozen of his works. The earliest piece I have is Auburn for guitar and tape from 1994 and the latest is the 2004 'Second Self' that you linked to. For me Second Self is an excellent fusion of live and electronic sounds. I would put it up there with
Saariaho's 'Six Japanese Gardens' and 'Lichtbogen.' Not that they sound the same but how the live and electronics compliment each other.
His 'Here' trilogy is very good and for me it would be even better if it was written for mezzo-soprano but that is a quibble.
Have you heard Aa's 'Mask?' The reviews make it sound worth hearing.
Quote from: UB on January 14, 2009, 07:32:00 AM
Thanks for introducing the music of 3 new composers to me.
You're very welcome.
Quote from: UB on January 14, 2009, 07:32:00 AMHave you heard Aa's 'Mask?' The reviews make it sound worth hearing.
Not yet! Soon, I hope.
Quote from: some guy on January 13, 2009, 10:22:03 PM
And, someone who's just Dutch, Michel van der Aa:
http://www.doublea.net/media_audio/Second%20Self-live.mp3 (http://www.doublea.net/media_audio/Second%20Self-live.mp3)
His works I do enjoy.
Aa. Now, that's a name that has to be assured of near top status on any alphabetical list!
The only person I can think of who would go ahead of Aa is A. (Chinese composer A Bing. Using the western family-names-goes-last system, he'd be Bing A)
Quote from: springrite on January 14, 2009, 09:11:20 PM
His works I do enjoy.
Aa. Now, that's a name that has to be assured of near top status on any alphabetical list!
The only person I can think of who would go ahead of Aa is A. (Chinese composer A Bing. Using the western family-names-goes-last system, he'd be Bing A)
If you search for
Michel van der Aa in, say, a library catalogue, he is indexed as follows:
Aa, Michel van der. But his
surname is
Van der Aa.
A work colleague has kindly lent me a CD of Jakob Van Domelsaer's (1890-1960) 1st Symphony and piano concertos. What may I expect? He was a pupil of Wagenaar.
I bought that set a couple of years ago and do not like it. 0:) ...although these works can be classified as very strange and unusual...
Van Domselaer and Mondriaan were friends for a while ( ca 1914-15) but, appartently, they broke up because Mondriaan did not like Van Domselaer's music. In the booklet one can read : His music is now nothing but dissonance.I find it damned ugly and said so. He wants to play God, but it's tough ,you know, having been such good friends"
Somewhere within that craggy first symphony lurks something like Ruggles' Sun treader - but ,afaik, the work is constructed too loosely. It does'n hang together ( sorry for the cliché), misses real power and tension....It left me perplexed. The pianoconcerti are totaly different, in a late romantic style, not unlike Liszt, Rachmaninoff, Busoni. I find them very boring !
It is good to have these discs( good performances I think!) as historical information on a strange loner.
I gave Van Domselaer's first symphony another spin. Weird music! Still don't like it- but for 1921 it is definitely...unusual. There are vague echoes of Mahler ( and Shostakovitch!), but in the end, it remains frustrating. Very often an idea ( melodic, rythmic) is started, but leads nowhere or is stopped abruptly. My -amateur- ears long for resolution, tension,progress...but that never happens.
He experiments with instrumental color ( the clarinets come in a whole family), the finale has (reportedly) an organ..but remains,to my ears, inaudible.
P.
The Etcetera label has now issued 2 cds of music by the conductor/composer Otto Ketting. Vol. 2 has Ketting's 3rd and 4th symphonies and the 3rd is described as "full of the influences of Mahler and Stravinsky".
I am sceptical. Can anyone advise me about Ketting's music? I was under the impression that he was a 'modernist'(code for "I wouldn't like him" ;D)
Quote from: pjme on January 16, 2009, 05:14:10 AM
My -amateur- ears long for resolution, tension,progress...but that never happens.
P, I think you have hit the very nub of it, here. People bring certain expectations to music, and when they hit a piece that doesn't fulfill those expectations, (and just as often, when they merely hit a
description of a piece (as, say, "modernist")) they reject it.
I've had that experience myself, so I understand. I've also gotten past it, so can safely advise anyone who does that that you're only hurting yourself, you're only cutting yourself off from an enormous amount of beauty and enjoyment. Of course, you are all free to continue trying to find music that fits your expectations.
I would like to request one thing, again, and that is that you don't transmogrify "I don't like it" into "It's bad music." (I know that many people who are accused of this will deny it. So you needn't bother! I already
expect that your denials will be disingenuous! ;D)
OK, end of sermon. Here's a clip (annoyingly interrupted every thirty seconds, but "Oh, well") of the not nearly well enough known Dutch electronic pioneer, Dick Raaijmakers. (Clips of this guy's music are very difficult to find.)
http://www.boomkat.com/jukebox/jbFramed02.cfm?tracks=49137:30014&type=music (http://www.boomkat.com/jukebox/jbFramed02.cfm?tracks=49137:30014&type=music)
Quote from: Dundonnell on January 16, 2009, 05:29:43 AM
The Etcetera label has now issued 2 cds of music by the conductor/composer Otto Ketting. Vol. 2 has Ketting's 3rd and 4th symphonies and the 3rd is described as "full of the influences of Mahler and Stravinsky".
I am sceptical. Can anyone advise me about Ketting's music? I was under the impression that he was a 'modernist'(code for "I wouldn't like him" ;D)
Otto Ketting.......anybody?
Find some Ketting music and listen to it would be my advice.
It might fufill your expectations; it might not. If you rely on others' opinions, opinions very possibly prejudicial and ill-informed, you might prejudge yourself, thus cutting yourself off from even the possibility of enjoying something new (to you) and fresh.
Time to give those ears of yours some real workouts, I'd say.
Quote from: some guy on January 19, 2009, 08:45:45 AM
Find some Ketting music and listen to it would be my advice.
It might fufill your expectations; it might not. If you rely on others' opinions, opinions very possibly prejudicial and ill-informed, you might prejudge yourself, thus cutting yourself off from even the possibility of enjoying something new (to you) and fresh.
Time to give those ears of yours some real workouts, I'd say.
Thank you for your advice :)
I have no difficulty in principle with accepting your argument that one should find out for oneself what the music of a particular composer sounds like. Unfortunately I do not have unlimited financial means :)
Ketting is an eminent Dutch composer and conductor. Etcetera has now issued two volumes of his orchestral music. My enquiry was, I suppose, directed principally towards our Dutch members here. I do respect their views and have not found those views in the past to be prejudicial or ill-informed :)
Quote from: Dundonnell on January 19, 2009, 01:39:35 PM
Thank you for your advice :)
I have no difficulty in principle with accepting your argument that one should find out for oneself what the music of a particular composer sounds like. Unfortunately I do not have unlimited financial means :)
Same here. Otherwise we'd all have a collection even bigger than Harry's!
Otto Ketting:
http://muzetunes.com/playback.asx?c=y-LLCralryF8TrbanmGf4wTzaTvArIxi0_JkaHcuMbU=&f=B (http://muzetunes.com/playback.asx?c=y-LLCralryF8TrbanmGf4wTzaTvArIxi0_JkaHcuMbU=&f=B)
From this page.
http://www.cduniverse.com/productinfo.asp?pid=6900645&style=classical&cart=834550060
It's only thirty seconds, but then it only took me about three minutes to find. I'm sure you could find more if you wanted.
Quote from: springrite on January 19, 2009, 02:23:38 PM
Same here. Otherwise we'd all have a collection even bigger than Harry's!
;D And a new...shipment is already on its way to Groningen!
(http://www.simplystainless.com/graphics/containerShip.jpg)
Quote from: pjme on January 20, 2009, 12:08:47 AM
;D And a new...shipment is already on its way to Groningen!
(http://www.simplystainless.com/graphics/containerShip.jpg)
How did you know this? ;D ;D
Quote from: some guy on January 16, 2009, 10:11:28 AM
P, I think you have hit the very nub of it, here. People bring certain expectations to music, and when they hit a piece that doesn't fulfill those expectations, (and just as often, when they merely hit a description of a piece (as, say, "modernist")) they reject it.
I've had that experience myself, so I understand. I've also gotten past it, so can safely advise anyone who does that that you're only hurting yourself, you're only cutting yourself off from an enormous amount of beauty and enjoyment. Of course, you are all free to continue trying to find music that fits your expectations.
I would like to request one thing, again, and that is that you don't transmogrify "I don't like it" into "It's bad music." (I know that many people who are accused of this will deny it. So you needn't bother! I already expect that your denials will be disingenuous! ;D)
OK, end of sermon. Here's a clip (annoyingly interrupted every thirty seconds, but "Oh, well") of the not nearly well enough known Dutch electronic pioneer, Dick Raaijmakers. (Clips of this guy's music are very difficult to find.)
http://www.boomkat.com/jukebox/jbFramed02.cfm?tracks=49137:30014&type=music (http://www.boomkat.com/jukebox/jbFramed02.cfm?tracks=49137:30014&type=music)
(http://imagecache2.allposters.com/images/pic/MEPOD/10012230~Found-Daisy-in-a-Dead-Faint-on-the-Floor-and-Captain-Hallam-Bending-Over-Her-Posters.jpg)
"I told you darling, don't listen to Van Domselaer's first symphony again! It's really bad music." ;D
Quote from: pjme on January 15, 2009, 12:20:40 PM
I bought that set a couple of years ago and do not like it. 0:) ...although these works can be classified as very strange and unusual...
Van Domselaer and Mondriaan were friends for a while ( ca 1914-15) but, appartently, they broke up because Mondriaan did not like Van Domselaer's music. In the booklet one can read : His music is now nothing but dissonance.I find it damned ugly and said so. He wants to play God, but it's tough ,you know, having been such good friends"
Somewhere within that craggy first symphony lurks something like Ruggles' Sun treader - but ,afaik, the work is constructed too loosely. It does'n hang together ( sorry for the cliché), misses real power and tension....It left me perplexed. The pianoconcerti are totaly different, in a late romantic style, not unlike Liszt, Rachmaninoff, Busoni. I find them very boring !
It is good to have these discs( good performances I think!) as historical information on a strange loner.
Thanks very much for this information. I have only listened to the opening of Symphony 1 so far, which I liked very much but maybe my opinion will change when I hear the rest of it.
Quote from: pjme on January 20, 2009, 12:16:28 AM
(http://imagecache2.allposters.com/images/pic/MEPOD/10012230~Found-Daisy-in-a-Dead-Faint-on-the-Floor-and-Captain-Hallam-Bending-Over-Her-Posters.jpg)
"I told you darling, don't listen to Van Domselaer's first symphony again! It's really bad music." ;D
;D
According to the reviews this MDG cd is really cool:
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41%2BmIQis9rL._SS400_.jpg)
Quote from: Herman on January 21, 2009, 11:33:18 AM
According to the reviews this MDG cd is really cool:
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41%2BmIQis9rL._SS400_.jpg)
It is! :)
Quote from: some guy on January 19, 2009, 06:41:33 PM
Otto Ketting:
http://muzetunes.com/playback.asx?c=y-LLCralryF8TrbanmGf4wTzaTvArIxi0_JkaHcuMbU=&f=B (http://muzetunes.com/playback.asx?c=y-LLCralryF8TrbanmGf4wTzaTvArIxi0_JkaHcuMbU=&f=B)
From this page.
http://www.cduniverse.com/productinfo.asp?pid=6900645&style=classical&cart=834550060
It's only thirty seconds, but then it only took me about three minutes to find. I'm sure you could find more if you wanted.
Thank you for taking the time to seek out these links. I appreciate that :)
Incidentally, I see that Etcetera is issuing a cd of Henk Badings' Symphony No.2, Cello Concerto No.2 and Symphonic Scherzo-
http://www.etcetera-records.com/index.php?713
CPO issued the Badings Symphony No.2(coupled with Nos. 7 and 12) last year and I would guess that a lot of people interested in the music of Badings will have already bought that cd....which is bad news for Etcetera! How many will buy the disc for the Cello Concerto, I wonder. It sounds a bit silly when you read the Etcetera cd blurb which says that the symphony is "finally available".
Here's some more Dutch composers. They have one other thing in common.*
Rozalie Hirs
Joey Roukens
Dante Boon
Taylan Susam
Robert Zuidam
Jacob ter Veldhuis
Peter-Jan Wagemans
*They're all featured on a program of contemporary Dutch music at Redcat on the 20th of February this year. L.A. residents take note!!
Does anybody know anything by Daniel Ruyneman apart from Hieroglyphs (1918)? It's a weird combo and here's an extract, although not brilliantly performed.
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=lu7lPID-SLU
Jan van Gilse: symphony no. 2 (from 1902 - 32 mins, 3 movements)
Theo Verbey: orchestration of Berg's sonata op. 1 (13 mins, in one movement) / Clarinet Concerto (from 2005 - 20 mins, 3 movements)
Lex van Delden: Symphony no. 3 "Facetten" (from 1955 - 14 mins, in one movement)
I've indicated the dates, length and general layout of these works as I think it gives an indication of their character. The Van Gilse is a romantic work (not even late-romantic). In the character of Barhms (Serenade no 1), Dvorak (symphonies 3-5), and his contemporary scandinavian composers (Norman, Olsson). Rich orchestration, simple but effective melodies, very professional but unadventurous treatment. Listening once didn't leave much of an impression, but a couple more listening sessions proved quite rewarding: it's a solid and very agreeable work (reminds me also of Ives 1).
Theo Verbey's orchestration of Berg's sonata is a masterly piece of work: sumptuously decadent and overwhelmingly dramatic at times, yet transparent and shimmering in the quiet moments. It drips with late romantic chromaticism. Gustav Klimt's The Kiss in sound. The Clarinet Concerto is something altogether different (obviously). Its three movements faithfully adhere to the classic concertante concept, yet the treatment of the familiar fast-slow-fast pattern is anything but conventional. There's an elaborate, imposing orchestral introduction that is quite surprising. Modern works normally dispense with that and get straight to business. Verbey has the patience and expertise that make this first movement a really impressive confection. The rest treads more familiar terrain but the work as a whole has freshness and sincerity right until the end.
I'll need to give van Delden's synmphony more airing time, but this too impresssed me with its big content within a compact format.
Quote from: Lethe on January 27, 2008, 07:47:01 PM
Symphony No.7, "Zuiderzee" (1917)
This is apparently the piece performed before Matthijs Vermeulen caused the scene which put him out of favour with much of the establishment of the time. While it's conservative, it's not THAT derivative. From the start it's attractive, appealing, and has the mark of a composer confident in every aspect of their craft. The formal problems of the 1st aren't an issue in this work (I can't speak for the ones in between, which I haven't heard), and his flowing and lyrical style is not at all inhibited by having to better structure this symphony. Melodies in surging string themes, which are then intertwined by other lines from the orchestra - it's the stuff you expect from great composers, but sometimes miss in obscure ones. This isn't the case with Dopper - he's a good melodist and orchestator, his themes building and combining very successfully.
The second movement is delightful, titled Humoreske, it harks back to pre-Scherzo Menuettos - a bit of bouncy fun. The end of this lilting, march-style movement finishes quite bombastically, something which will occur again at the end of the fourth movement. I can see this putting people off, but with such a talented composer, I find that they fit in well, rather than banging and crashing through otherwise attractive passages of music. I'm not sure how familiar he was with Tchaikovsky, but the march-like louder moments sound a bit like the third movement of the Pathétique. I found the slow third movement to be slightly less distinguished (but will give it many more listens before I give up on it), but this is more than made up for by the finale, which is exceptional.
It begins confidently with a hushed, scuttering tune on the strings soon interrupted by some uneasy sounding swirls from the woodwinds and percussion, before combining with them into a gusting tune, then as quickly as that arrived, a full orchestra theme makes its appearance with brilliant brass accompanying it. To me, this perfectly demonstrates what is so fun, enjoyable, and just plain "great" about symphonic music. It sounds absolutely wonderful, and contains a wealth of ideas. The second half... hehe! This is what will make people either love it or want to vomit. The hilarious peal of brass at 4:48 acts as a brief foreshadow to a high octane finale. The finale is so OTT that is is hard to take it seriously - I just listen to it grinning like an idiot. It's so tuneful, wonderful and foot-stamping fun. I'll upload the movement to show what I mean more effectively than my rather inadequate words: IV. Finale (http://www.mediafire.com/?f10ajyjzgxm) No time to upload the rest today, but I will tomorrow.
It was this excellent and tantalising post which made me want to hear Dopper asap. As I wrote in the Listening thread, the Finale is even more exhilarating when you know the tunes - the solemn one is one of those glorious hymns which were collected at the start of the seventeenth century by Adriaen Valerius. It's called 'O Nederland, let op u saeck'. Dopper combines this with a song every Dutch child knows, about Piet Hein and the Zilvervloot - a Dutch admiral who robbed silver from the Spanish. The effect of hearing Valerius and the Zilvervloot had an almost psychedelic effect on me - the stern Calvinist burghers rioting together with the lower orders. At the same time I heard something of a warning for the Dutch to guard their threatened freedom (which is what 'O Nederland, let op u saeck' is about). When Mengelberg conducted this work in 1940 a year after Dopper's death, during the German occupation, he was very brave... There seems to be a CD of this historic performance. I'd really like to hear that!
All in all - a wonderful piece. Dopper is a really good composer.
Quote from: Jezetha on February 13, 2009, 09:45:53 AM
When Mengelberg conducted this work in 1940 a year after Dopper's death, during the German occupation, he was very brave... There seems to be a CD of this historic performance. I'd really like to hear that!
Then I better lend you my copy ;) It was released as Volume 13 in the Mengelberg Edition (and included in other editions of the Mengelberg legacy as well). My copy has no details about the recording date, but I think you're right and it's from the Autumn of 1940. Which means, that the Concertgebouw Orchestra had already lost its Jewish players - a fact that sheds a slightly different light on it.
But in my modest opinion Bernard Zweers'
Third 'Aan Mijn Vaderland' (To My Fatherland, 1890), a similar concept with similar references, is much more orginal and a better symphony. :)
Quote from: Christo on February 13, 2009, 01:13:09 PM
Then I better lend you my copy ;) It was released as Volume 13 in the Mengelberg Edition (and included in other editions of the Mengelberg legacy as well). My copy has no details about the recording date, but I think you're right and it's from the Autumn of 1940. Which means, that the Concertgebouw Orchestra had already lost its Jewish players - a fact that sheds a slightly different light on it.
But in my modest opinion Bernard Zweers' Third 'Aan Mijn Vaderland' (To My Fatherland, 1890), a similar concept with similar references, is much more orginal and a better symphony. :)
So you have it... Excellent! And I agree - an 'entjudetes' Concertgebouworkest seems to cancel out Mengelberg's patriotic daring... Btw - I found a very interesting web page (only in Dutch) where a contemporary and friend of Mengelberg comments on the 'Vermeulen affair' on the night itself!
http://www.egoproject.nl//archief-debooijfamilie/Fragm.%20Concertgebouw.htm
I started listening to Zweers's Third a few hours ago, but was interrupted. What I heard appeals to me and shows more subtlety and atmosphere than Dopper. But what I like about Dopper is his unapologetic self-confidence, a rare quality in our country...
The wonderful RCO box "Bernard Haitink: RCO Live The Radio Recordings" has a piano Concerto by Kees Van Baaren, a name I am not familiar with. The 1964 (?) concerto is serial, relatively concise at around 15 min and frankly a bit academic and dry. I have not seen his name discussed. Any other works worth exploring?
[from the Listening thread]
Just listened to Zweers's Third. It's more poetic/pictorial than dramatic. It's a big canvas and Zweers takes his time. The music has no 'plot'. It simply moves and its progress is beguiling. Most of the time, though not in the interminable last movement (which Lethe was thinking of, I think, when she says the music went on and on and on).
Before I start complaining - Zweers has a flair for orchestration and there is a strong atmosphere. I found the first three movements very good. I could hear influences of Schubert, Weber and Wagner (Lohengrin), but they didn't bother me. I liked the unconventional structure of the first movement, which seemed more a fantasy than anything else, not a heavy Germanic curtain-raiser to a world drama.
There is a motto theme from which Zweers derives most of his material, but the order in which he finds all his variations seems to be rather random. Victim of this rather spatial approach to musical time is that terrible last movement, which is an absolute shambles, as if Zweers had dozens of ideas floating in his head and decided to put them all in. I don't know why this movement has turned out so badly. But in this Finale the fantasy element I spotted and admired in the first movement causes a structural chaos full of badly-managed Brucknerian non sequiturs, where a listener thinks the music has ended or is reaching a decisive climax, only to discover Zweers is continuing with another variation of his motto.
In conclusion - Zweers is subtler and more poetic than Dopper when he is at his best. But Dopper has more sense of direction and a firmer grip.
I initially posted this in the listening thread, but deleted it, figuring it makes more sense to have it here.
After Jezetha's revealing impressions on Zweers' third symphony, I am giving it a relisten. I am finding it more to my taste this time - the first movement passed without hitch despite its 15 minute length, and the same length second movement, which is halfway through at the moment, is providing a fine contrast (the noble section starting a bit before 9 mins is superb). I am going to relisten to Dopper's first symphony after this, as it bears more of a kinship with the Zweers than his later tightly-constructed ones (it was originally a ballet score, and arguably still is, even with its title).
It is during moods like this (a desire for discovering new music) that makes me so grateful at the high standard of these barely-known (at least outside of their native countries) orchestras. The Zweers is performed strongly, even during brass crescendos, the strings nimble and the recorded sound very fine. The recording industry made such huge strides between 1970 and 2000, and produced wonders.
Edit: It's finished now, and I can see what Jezetha meant about the unfocused finale. It comes across as a bit of a patchwork, and the ending doesn't have any feeling of conclusion, almost coming across as a little feeble. I also found the third movement a little less inspired than the second, but it was fine and should reward closer listening. I am not sure that just a simple trimming of material could solve the problems of the finale, as it could risk it sounding less significant than the preceeding movements. Perhaps Zweers set himself a problem he simply could not solve?
Quote from: Lethe on February 14, 2009, 07:31:18 PM
It's finished now, and I can see what Jezetha meant about the unfocused finale. It comes across as a bit of a patchwork, and the ending doesn't have any feeling of conclusion, almost coming across as a little feeble. I also found the third movement a little less inspired than the second, but it was fine and should reward closer listening. I am not sure that just a simple trimming of material could solve the problems of the finale, as it could risk it sounding less significant than the preceeding movements. Perhaps Zweers set himself a problem he simply could not solve?
I am in close agreement with you on the merits of the first three movements. When I was listening to the first movement in particular I was amazed at how good it was, because AND in spite of its structural oddities (several development sections springing up during its course without explanation). And you're also spot on with
Perhaps Zweers set himself a problem he simply could not solve? Yes, I think the duty of writing a 'great' finale was too much for Zweers, who had already demonstrated in the earlier movements of not being able to write a plausible climax, which was fine, beacuse the beauty and atmosphere made up of for it. But a finale has to clinch matters, which Zweers signally fails to do. And I don't think you can trim that last movement either, its mistakes are all over the place. For it to work, you'd have to, literally, recompose it.
And that Dopper First, please report back!
P.S.
Zweers at his best is subtler and more poetic than Dopper is what I meant to write. Although, after listening to Dopper's marvellous
Gothic Chaconne just now, I wonder whether this still holds... So far I prefer Dopper to Zweers, because I know
he knows what he is doing and where he is going.
From re-reading my previous post, I seem to overuse commas bigtime :D
Quote from: Jezetha on February 15, 2009, 12:02:13 AM
And that Dopper First, please report back!
I wrote a review of it somewhere in this thread, but I would probably be embarassed by my ham-fisted attempts to describe formal elements. It certainly sounds like an early work, but rather than being mediocre all-round, it has points of interest from being "different". The first is the theme - based strongly on classical mythology, Dopper reacts to these elements in an attempt to produce a sound to fit. The first movement has a brief exposed brass fanfare which repeats several times throughout, recalling to me the trumpets used during Roman state occasions, which is presumably his intention due to the movement title. The first movement is very "classically" restrained, colourful and without much incident. This style is modified to fine effect in a dance movement, where the coy and elusive writing no longer represent woodland-murmurs, but instead the activity of a ball. The third movement offers some more standard writing - a typical mysterious and attractive evocation of a woodland scene. The final movement is the most dramatic and a fine closer (with once again those fanfares popping up in modified form). It seems a work of two halves to me at the moment, with the delicacy (or arguably thinness) or orchestration betraying its ballet origins, not to mention the lack of a strong form or forward movement. Despite grumbles, though, it has many plus points and represents a classically-influenced dramatic tradition that began to die out in place of the new national forms of inspiration that arose during the 19th century.
I notice that I haven't reuploaded it yet for some reason, I will do that and add it to the list a few pages back.
Quote from: Jezetha on February 15, 2009, 12:02:13 AM
P.S. Zweers at his best is subtler and more poetic than Dopper is what I meant to write.
They seem to be from slightly different schools of compositional thought, I think (although I have only heard Zweers' third). In Dopper there are echoes of the formally strong Brahms (in the more abstract less "national" works), Dvořák, and perhaps slight hints of the Russians. Zweers' third reminds me of the no-holds-barred Romanticism of the Symphony Fantastique and early Wagner's. I was going to add Smetana to Dopper, but they both seem to channel the style of Ma Vlast, but in different ways.
Thanks, Sarah, for that excellent write-up. And I'm looking forward to Dopper's First!
I have been busy listening to Zweers and (especially) Dopper these last two days. I intend to widen my enthusiastic exploration of Dutch music the coming days and weeks. I have Verhulst, Badings and Diepenbrock lined up. It is a joy to discover, rather belatedly, that fine music has been composed in this country and not only by Vermeulen, Pijper and a few others. Orthel was an opening fanfare, perhaps - I can't understand how I have lived without him all these years
On to Dopper (again)! I have listened to Mengelberg's performance of the Zuiderzee symphony 4, 5 times and he really excels in the first three movements. His wonderfully fluid tempi and sense of dynamic gradation work wonders. For example - David Porcelijn uses basically the same tempo for the first movement, only slowing down for the 'O Nederland, let op u saeck' theme. Not so Mengelberg. He really moulds the music. In the Porcelijn the rather four-square main theme can get a bit boring, but Mengelberg is very adroit at varying the pace, so that it can sound grand, yearning, peremptory or simply blunt and forthright. Another thing - in the Mengelberg Dopper's daring combination of themes (akin to Vermeulen!) is much much clearer, so much so that one passage in particular sounded almost new (I'll have to check where the same passage occurs in the Porcelijn). The 'romantic' passages come off better, too. The third movement is very very beautiful in this respect, with a quite other-worldly atmosphere. There is something phantasmagoric about Dopper's soundscapes, and Mengelberg knows how to create sheer magic. I really urge you, Sarah, to listen to that third movement again... Where Porcelijn is the winner is in the final movement, but here, perhaps, the quality of a 1940 recording has let Mengelberg down.
One final remark about the Gothic Chaconne - it is absolutely masterly even in its seriously truncated form (a bl**dy shame!). Dopper equals Brian, Schmidt and other original late Romantics, and his powers of orchestral invention are terrific.
A great discovery.
There certainly seems to be more of the requested rubato in the Mengelberg, and the fantasy elements are also played very well, such as in the expressive solos. I found the slow movement slightly plain - if technically admirable - on my listenings to the Porcelijn, but the Mengelberg does make a slightly better case for it. I say slightly, because my cursed ears can't "hear-through" the constant crackling of the recording, or its limited dynamic range - it was especially unfortunate when the crackles became louder in the second half... In both recordings I get more than occasional hints of Sibelius in this movement. It is quite disorienting to hear a woodwind solo (f.eg.) which reeks of Sibelius suddenly developing in a completely different way (where Sibelius would fade out, or move to a fresh idea, Dopper extends it under plucked strings to give a march-like quality, keeping the constant flow of the orchestra intact).
Regarding the critics claims of Dopper's "German nature" of composition, I wonder what exactly they considered un-German in Dutch music of the time... Zweers and De Lange certainly are indebted to central Europe.
As a Brianite I am used to 'hear-through' bad recordings, supplementing what I can't hear by what I know should be there or what I can imagine to be there!
QuoteRegarding the critics claims of Dopper's "German nature" of composition, I wonder what exactly they considered un-German in Dutch music of the time... Zweers and De Lange certainly are indebted to central Europe.
The better question to be asked would have been - how exactly does
Dutch music sound? You can't blame Dopper for using what was the musical
lingua franca of his age, before Debussy and Stravinsky toppled the German-Austrian hegemony.
I am going to listen to Dopper's First. I read a rather unfavorable review of the performance yesterday, so I'll keep in mind I'm hearing only a
performance of the piece and not the piece itself...
Wow! A sudden wave of interest in Dopper!!
(Ok, well maybe not a wave exactly but a ripple of significance ;D)
I had rather dismissed Dopper up to now but having read these enthusiastic posts and having dusted the cobwebs off my three Chandos Dopper symphonies for Jezetha's benefit I had better give him a serious re-evaluation(and Zweers too!) :)
Quote from: Dundonnell on February 18, 2009, 03:37:38 PM
I had rather dismissed Dopper up to now but having read these enthusiastic posts and having dusted the cobwebs off my three Chandos Dopper symphonies for Jezetha's benefit I had better give him a serious re-evaluation(and Zweers too!) :)
I must admit, I listened to my two Chandos CDs (Nos.2, 3 & 6) after Jezetha's recent interest in the 7th, and their impact was much lesser. I will give them plenty more listens first before a final opinion, though...
Odd if Chandos chose to record lesser works ;D
By no means impossible though :)
I listened again to the Dopper 7 and De Lange 4. I had much pleasure and fun listening to Dopper's inventive potpourri of tunes and expert use of orchestration, but as a symphony I find it a bit uneven. Movements 2 and 4 stand out. It was a good idea of Dopper's to keep the scherzo short (that's movement 2). Infectiously good-humoured and foot-tapping stuff that could easily take a life of its own as a 'Proms'-like encore. And the finale is so over the top and well-crafted that it cunningly brings the house down with its rousing conclusion. I found the first movement more dutiful than impressive (one expects whooping horn thrills in a finale, as in Dvorak 8th). A good but not entirely memorable slow movement.
Superficially, De Lange's work appears as more traditional. I would rather say that the composer has a better command and understanding of the classical symphony's structure - both in its structural 4-movement outlay and their internal content. What impresses me is that this work grows from strength to strength, piling up its musical dividends like an experienced dutch banker. IOW, each movement's musical potential is bettter than the preceding one, and the whole is better than the sum of its parts. The huge brucknerian piling up of brass and timpani in the finale (around 5 minutes in) is a truly spectacular moment. I also think his themes are more original and expertly worked out.
Both works are superb additions to the music lover who has already explored every corner of the standard repertoire. I think De Lange's has more staying power and deserves to be placed on the same plane as Nielsen's first two symphonies for example.
(Edited for typos)
Quote from: Lethe on February 18, 2009, 04:00:15 PM
I must admit, I listened to my two Chandos CDs (Nos.2, 3 & 6) after Jezetha's recent interest in the 7th, and their impact was much lesser. I will give them plenty more listens first before a final opinion, though...
I'm in a hurry, so I have to be brief - I gave No. 6 a listen yesterday and was slightly disappointed, too - the 'Dopper sound' is there, and I like that sound a lot, but an 'inventive potpourri of tunes and expert use of orchestration' (to quote André) seems to be what Dopper is mainly capable of. I say 'seems', because I still have 2 and 3 to listen to. But I already listened to No. 1 too, which shows the same charasteristics... So at this moment I think the 'Zuiderzee' symphony and the
Gothic Chaconne might well be (two of) Dopper's peaks, where his shortcomings turn into advantages.
[Extended repost]
I may have been absent here, due to complex personal circumstances, but I have been listening to music, of course! One piece in particular has become a favourite -
Cornelis Dopper, Gothic Chaconne (Mengelberg, Concertgebouw Orchestra, 1940)
Just as Brahms in his Chaconne in the Finale of his Fourth Symphony, Dopper wrings a whole world of feeling and drama from his grave bass theme.
A chaconne, to quote Wikipedia, is a type of musical composition popular in the baroque era when it was much used as a vehicle for variation on a repeated short harmonic progression, often involving a fairly short repetitive bass-line (ground bass) which offered a compositional outline for variation, decoration, figuration and melodic invention. In this it closely resembles the Passacaglia.
Mengelberg's performance is a classic. Yes, the recording isn't perfect, but the power of the work is never in doubt. Dopper wrote it in 1920 and had to foreshorten it considerably (from 50 minutes to 15...) I don't know what we have lost, because that original version has never been recorded. Nevertheless, what we have now is an orchestral masterpiece.
For those interested, here is a link (my thanks to Sarah/Lethe!):
http://www.mediafire.com/file/mmgenqyzndy/Dopper - Gothic Chaconne.mp3
Since I wrote this, I have been in contact with Joop Stam, Dopper's biographer and one of the organisers of a Dopper Festival which will take place later this year in the composer's native Stadskanaal and other places in the province of Groningen. He writes that the full score of the Ciaconna gotica has gone missing (probably destroyed by Dopper), but that it could be reconstructed because the orchestral parts are still extant. I wish someone would do this job!
Other Dopper works I now rate more highly are the Sixth Symphony and the Päân I...
Quote from: Jezetha on April 14, 2009, 11:25:33 PM
One piece in particular has become a favourite -
Cornelis Dopper, Gothic Chaconne (Mengelberg, Concertgebouw Orchestra, 1940)
Great to hear! The
Ciaconna Gotica has been a personal favourite since the late 1970s, I think I first heard it (this same 1940 Mengelberg recording with a Concertgebouw Orchestra that had just ``lost'' its Jewish members ...) back in 1978. I loved it immediately, especially the wonderful finale (roughly from 00:14' on) 8)
BTW I think the title is nice but misleading; it's really a set of orchestral variations, not a chaconne.
The only other extant recording, by Kees Bakels with the Netherlands Radio SO, is quite okay. But Mengelberg is better indeed. Hope they will organize a new recording this year. :)
Now playing: the Mengelberg version.
Hi, Johan! I must have listened to the Chaconne dozens of times already, and it never gets boring. An amazing piece! On November 19th the world premiere of Dopper's Requiem will take place up in the North. It's a bit far afield for me, but who knows what I'll do...
16 pages...wow! Talk about a rabbitt hole!
H. Andriessen has a flute+harp piece that I fell in love with (Entr'acte?, Intermezzo?). It's on a Glorian Duo cd on Delos, I believe. When I went after Sym.No4, and the NM cd with the concertos, I was disappointed (reminded me of Hammer film music). I will have to listen to some of these downloads. btw, Andriessen has 3 SQs: Quartetto in stile antico, Il Pensiero, and L'indifferent (1957-66). Pensiero is on the Olympia cd. I'm still wanting more from him.
H. Badings also has a couple of nice, modern flute+harp duos (Cavatina, and _____on Klavier w/Persichetti), and a flute+organ piece (Dialogo w/Martin et al), and a wind quintet, but I was checking out Amazon, and apparently cpo never followed up on their initial release. His discography is as meager as ever. SQs, please! But I really like the grey modernism of what I've heard. Won't touch the Nazi thing with a ten foot pole!
W. Pijper's SQs still elude me. Anyone want to sell?
Why must BIS, Donemus, Etcetera, etc, be soooo expensive$$$???
I would appreciate any specific SQ comments concerning any of these composers.
Honestly, the area south of Sweden and north of France has me really scratching...yes, I DO have a map. If I drove from Pennsylvania to South Carolina, maybe not all that much would change (stifle), but in Europe everything seems to be "county" by "county", regardless of the country name, no?
Quote from: snyprrr on April 21, 2009, 11:09:16 AM
W. Pijper's SQs still elude me. Anyone want to sell?
I gotta tell ya, someone here saw this and sent me a CDr. THAT is just what this is all about, no? I won't call you out, but thanks again.
So, I finally get to hear Pijper's SQs 1-5. 2-5 are all around 10min, but they are so "festina lente" that they appear almost timeless.
I am listening to the student work
No.1 (under Wagenaar; 1914) in F minor for the first time right now. Haha, the first mvmt opens in "echtCzech" mode, almost humorously so. Already I like Myaskovsky's student works better (there is a very very small similarity in the minor keyish drama). Didn't most of the composers of this "way" write longish semi-derivative/interesting student works (Hindemith No.0, Roussel PianoTrio, Respighi)? Pijper was 20 and I love the awkwared? duck walking for the first time feel. The Mahler9 slow mvmt IS nice. He hasn't quite got his chromatics down yet, but that's half the fun: a certain medievel minor key jauntiness caps this charmer!
SQs 2-4 ('20,'23,'28) from the core of the meat of the matter.
No.2 opens in dramatically original impressionistic style, a Calvinist Szymanowski? If this is what the first modern DSQ sounds like, it is like an overcast/pressionism perfumed with sterile decay. No real hint of Bartok to my ears, but I feel like I WISH Schoenberg sounded like this. Yes, Calvinist Szymanowski, but structurally much more original, and honestly, at 9:59, it may very well be the best SQ under 10min next to Webern, and I might argue Pijper's soundworld more evocative, perhaps.
No.3 opens with a Pijper Waltz, creepy in that Honegger way. The slow mvmt is again the best Szymanowski I've heard, otherworldly AND restrained! Very original. The finale again reminds me of idealized Honegger/Bloch, though, I may argue, with more wit, delicacy, and originality. There is a certain horse<car overcast Dutch/Swiss urbanity here that feels like early modern pre-mature Hindemith perfection.
And
No.4 opens in perfected Pijper style, sounding to me like a Calvinist Berg perhaps...I've got to admit,Pijper's SQs are really getting me. Second mvmt 2min moto. By the slow mvmt I'm thinking Crawford-Seeger? By now, the only thing left of Pijper's near hallucinatory slow mvmts is the creative use of pizz. SQ4 seems more like Hindemith meets Schoenberg: not one note is wasted on anything but the arguement, and Pijper is one of the "cleanest" composers now that I've ever heard. Clinical, yet searching.
No.5 is "late" Pijper (who died at 52? from cancer), left unfinished, 2 out of 4 mvmts. It opens in echt Pijper quartet style, original, with his trademark pizz and Dutch urbane 20th centuryness, and his rigorous restraint and constant changing of his simple germ cells. This is the best elusive style music I think I've heard; it just really had me from hello, and now through my second full listen, these SQs have satisfied a long desire for such a remarakable synthesis of styles. I have to admit that I am a fan of grey anonymous modernity, yet Pijper is one of the most original "normal" composers I've encountered. SQ2 is an unqualified youknowwhat, and 3-5 chart one of the most original courses of the time, equal to
Hindemith's quartal harmonies, and with
Honegger's individuality. I also hear Frank
Martin and a perfected
Bloch and
Milhaud. Teeny teeny seeds of Dutilleux.
Pijper's SQs have ALWAYS "been on the list", but now they are revealed as one of the most inevitable cycles of development and perfection of style. Had he lived, I can picture perhaps one 20min concentrated masterpiece, but the fact that Pijper crams so much evocation into SQs of about 10min length, is so absolutely perfect 20th century music.
Yea, I could really go on...
Snyprrr, your great post makes me want to listen to Pijper's SQs for the first time. Thank you!
Are them available commercially? :)
Or even anonymously ? 8)
They're in the "hopelessly out of print" bin. None on Amazon, though it can show up on ebay.
A perfect candidate for Brilliant Classics.
Is it my imagination, or did EVERY Dutch composer of the previous generation have 2-3 children that became composers?
Beyond that, I was trying to make a list of modern Dutch composers, but it got to the point where I couldn't tell who was who: Theo Verbey, Klaas de Vries, Wagenaar,...maybe it's all those "aa"s, but also, there are just SO MANY of them! It's a HIVE!!! Do they have a leader? Is it a free for all? The Rotterdam School? Who at GMG has more than 10 Donemus cds?
AAAhhhhhhhh.......
Yes, it is your imagination.
No.
No.
Don't know.
I don't.
Sorry that I cannot be more helpful ;D
;D- Dun, you always make me smile!
I used to have that cd of Schat's "Himel/Heavens?" conducted by Chailly (on NM?). I recall that it reminded me of Simpson's Sym.9 in that it was built on the circle of fifths. Schat's work had that perfected 1980s sound, maybe a touch of Messiaen, but for all the wow, there was still that which left me wanting.
I had some piece by Chiel Meijerling? I remember liking, haha, I know.
Yea, ever since I heard those Pijper SQs I've been on a mission to shed some light on this black hole of Dutch music, but once you hit the 60s-80s it just gets to be too many names and not enough info.
I seem to have lost Holland on the map, too. :-\
Quote from: snyprrr on May 11, 2009, 05:32:22 PM
I seem to have lost Holland on the map, too. :-\
http://maps.google.nl/
This one, anybody?
(http://www.mdt.co.uk/public/pictures/products/standard/CDS10882.jpg)
New from Sterling.
I've only heard it from mp3s of an unavailable old CD release, but I'd say go for it based on the quality of the piece. Sterling is not very well-known, but the handfull of discs I have heard by them have all had decent production standards.
The symphony sustains its length quite well in the first 3 movements, very atmospheric. Things come off the rails a little in the finale, but if you have the patience it's a great work. There are certain similarites to Langgaard's 1st, but it's rather more easy-going: perhaps imagine a middle ground between that work and Smetana.
Quote from: snyprrr on May 11, 2009, 01:08:13 PM
Who at GMG has more than 10 Donemus cds?
I do, but having all of these CDs just makes it all the more fun! I find that many Dutch composers these days have such original voices, including the ones you mentioned, that it's just more and more fascinating to discover new ones, including the ones after the 1960s-1980s. Yes, there do seem to be countless amounts of them, but they do have their distinguishing characteristics. I actually happen to like Theo Verbey very much, speaking of him. He has been compared to John Adams, but I find his music far more interesting. He really has an ear for harmony and rhythm, especially in his pieces Triade and Fractal Symphony.
Quote from: erato on May 10, 2010, 08:07:49 AM
This one, anybody?
(http://www.mdt.co.uk/public/pictures/products/standard/CDS10882.jpg)
New from Sterling.
I agree with everything Lethe already wrote on it. Bernard Zweers (1854-1924) is a Romantic composer, the Dutch equivalent of, say, the Czech nationalists and stylistically roughly somewhere in between Fibich and Dvořák. His Third Symphony `Aan mijn vaderland' (To My Country/Fatherland) from 1890 is his finest and also final symphony. It takes over an hour. Lethe is right in identifying the first three parts as better than the Finale. Especially the chorale-like central theme of the second movement is great, imho. Am playing it now. :)
Apparently the new Sterling release is the same recording Lethe also heard, released as an LP in the 400 Years of Dutch music series and later as an Olympia cd (No. 4 in that series). It was recorded in The Hague in 1979.
(http://rond1900.nl/Images/Zweers4.jpg)
Ah, a shame it's not a new recording, but, erato - don't be put off about it being a reissue - I was surprised at how decent that Olympia performance was - it sounded good even in mp3, and this reissue looks like a chance for me to "upgrade" it, if I can justify the expense.
Oh, very nice, thanks for the tip. Too bad I just bought the Escher Chamber music disc at full price hehe. Still, some interesting stuff there, looks like I'll be getting a few new discs :]
I can definitely recommended that CD with chamber music by Escher, and also the one with the Concert for String Orchestra (and more importantly, the Musique pour l'Esprit en Deuil).
Que, kind of you to point this out but you are going to RUIN me ;D
For those interested; I see that they also carry the Van Gilse Symphonies 1 & 2 and Badings 2, 7 & 12 on CPO for 8 euros each.
This is becoming a nice order :]
Several Röntgens too - he doesn't seem to be considered very good, but I really love his music.
I have heard one or two pieces by Rontgen and thought they were a bit lame. But then again, I also thought that about Dopper and I did came to like his 7th symphony and Gothic chaconne.
What would you call Rontgen's 'greatest hits' if i may ask? Since there is quite some of his music available now, at least to (semi)-Dutch composer's standards.
I really enjoyed RCA's "Through the Bone" disc of chamber music. It's never quite as typical-sounding as it first appears - there are constant fleeting hints towards weirder soundworlds.
The CPO disc with his 3rd symphony is excellent - if I may quote a post from outside of this thread:
Quote from: Lethe Dmitriyevich Shostakovich on June 07, 2011, 12:59:58 PM
[asin]B000KC83FM[/asin]
Edit: heh, typical Röntgen. While overall this music is less valuble than his cello concertos, it is important and well-worth additional recordings.
This always happens when I listen to Röntgen's orchestral music: I tend to be grabbed by some interesting device, become increasingly dismayed at how thin the writing can sound, then come to terms with this and begin to love his sense of pep and fun. It's very lightweight sounding music, but it has a slightly military drill-style snap and crackle with an unfolding succession of tightly-reined dramatic waypoints. If the music was of a lesser quality, or performed less ideally, then it could sound horribly empty, but Röntgen produces music with a truly mid-Romantic charm - despite being a 20th century composer as far as his 24 symphonies are concerned.
The production CPO has done is marvelous, it really shows the music off as best as it could.
Edit2: Good lord the "filler" suite on this disc is even better. Wide-ranging in tone, from a genuinely dance-like scherzo to an elegiac yet upbeat closer, it's gorgeous.
Röntgen, like Reger, does suffer from writing too much, but everything I have heard from him I have enjoyed. Also like Reger, his style needs to be come to terms with before the music can be enjoyed. At first it seems rather thin and lightweight, but I feel a real commitment to good music in Röntgen's writing.
Thanks for that!, just ordered the "Through the Bone" disc.
Also found this 2CD with viola sonatas, "Lyrische Gange" and some Brahms songs:
[asin]B000FILJZ2[/asin]
Only for a fiver, so that's worth the risk ;]
Hi, downloaded must of Rontgen's Bitonal Symphony, the first appears to be deleted as the Orthel, Symphony No. 3 1. Adagio 05:34, 2-4 are there. Can these be reloaded? thanx in advance.
Still getting invalid or deleted files on Orthel's 3rd Symphony, 1st movement and Rontgen's Bitonal Symphony's first movement. Can someone restore these please? Would make me a very happy person. Thank you.
Uploading as I write ;D
Should be ready in a few minutes :)
I am uploading the entire Rontgen Bitonal Symphony since I have it in six separate files.
OK :)
Orthel Symphony No.3, First Movement:
http://www.mediafire.com/?43jbytdb42ozach
Rontgen Bitonal Symphony:
http://www.mediafire.com/?tltki3o7ogs6p7a
http://www.mediafire.com/?q97k7c75sawf6mu
http://www.mediafire.com/?c4ritf2ud0d4ns6
http://www.mediafire.com/?vm0cdb4q6ghytht
http://www.mediafire.com/?rfms7knlrvmzkbv
http://www.mediafire.com/?mx6nooe0hef8jjk
Hope this is ok :)
Thank you, I'm a happy person. both played well.
Quote from: Dundonnell on January 20, 2012, 11:47:18 AM
Uploading as I write ;D
Orthel Symphony No.3, First Movement:
Easily one of my favorite 20th century symphonies. The last movement is great, it has the really maniacal march, and then slips back into the gloom of the opening of the first.
Quote from: Lethevich on January 27, 2008, 07:20:52 AM
I ran into a series on Dutch music on Operashare recently, which I have been grabbing over the past few days. I haven't listened to much of it yet, but so far one obscurity has made an impression.
Daniël de Lange (1841-1918)
Symphony in C minor, Op.4 (c.1865)
I like this one a lot. It is quite one-dimensional and without much going on under the surface, but the themes are engaging and some even memorable. The way they are written seems to rely on quite simplistic repetition or "stock" note progressions, which sound very "gratifying", but come across as a little cheap (I wish that I could explain the technical side of this more usefully). If this isn't a problem, then the symphony as a whole is very enjoyable, with lots of grand rumblings and surprisingly engaging themes - plus the movements tend to keep up their pace without many drops in momentum (which from a great composer is to enhance the music, but weaker composers seem to resort to them when they cannot continue a theme's development, or meld two sections together naturally).
A good example of the plusses and minuses of this symphony is in the scherzo, which has a neat theme - pondorous, yet grand - but the composer doesn't seem to be able to do much with it, so at 0:50 is almost literally repeated briefly, but on higher notes, then peters out. But the music isn't crippled by this, and immediately after this there is a nice swirling tune to bridge the gap between the first theme and the development. While very romantic in sound, the symphony has a few classical leanings, such as the 8:20 min+ mark in the fourth movement, which sounds deliberately quite classical, probably to create a sense of occasion. I can't compare it to any other composer, it's not really like simplified Brahms (not that he took a cue from Brahms, due to its earlier date of writing). Once or twice the tone in the first movement comes a little close to Elgar's "Nimrod" from the Enigma Variations, and the freeness of the melody also has slight resemblence to (although being NOTHING as good as) Tchaikovsky, but the similarities to both are only passing.
Overall on an objective basis, it's neglected for good reason. It's quite simplistic and has no "greatness" to it, but I personally find it enjoyable, and it vindicates searching through these "lost" composers trying to find works of interest. Here is the scherzo (http://www.mediafire.com/?8lytpgxd3dm) for anybody interested. If somebody likes it I can upload the rest for them.
Ah! I'm glad I found this. I was just enjoying hearing this work this afternoon, and wondering if anyone mentioned it here. I have the performance that you have, and it's very good!
I agree with your review. I had a great time with this work and will definitely revist.
8)
I don't think anybody has yet mentioned this CD (http://www.cduniverse.com/search/xx/music/pid/1162010/a/Dutch+Masters+-+Andriessen,+Diepenbrock,+Van+Gilse,+Badings.htm) (Olympia OCD 507), which I bought dirt cheap ca. 2001. It contains interesting works by a selection of Dutch composers and makes a good introduction to the whole nation's music.
The outstanding piece is Diepenbrock's "Lydische Nacht", a gorgeous work which is, as far as I know, otherwise unrecorded except in a big (14 CD) box of micellaneous Concertgebouw recordings. It can be heard via Youtube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vbEk0afyd2c) if you can't track down the CD.
Jacob ter Veldhuis. Rainbow Concerto. 15 times this week, easily. Currently researching how to have his babies.
Just wanted to resurrect this thread to point out what a great yet underrated composer Leon Orthel is (I included him in my list of the 30 most underrated composers). Try his Symphony no. 2 on YouTube:
Part 1: http://youtu.be/6P_rIAUuWR4
Part 2: http://youtu.be/CiisTVw0Gco
Misleadingly subtitled Sinfonia piccola, this dark wartime work has a sense of defiance that recalls Shostakovich. Not a note is wasted in this brief, striking work.
Orthel's Symphonies 3, 4 and 6 can also be found on YT. The Third, especially, is another powerful wartime work which is an outcry for humanity:
Part 1: http://youtu.be/ht95SsdhlbI
Part 2: http://youtu.be/aIozMgW49z4
The complete works by Leo Smit have been rereleased by Etcetera some time ago. Nothing earth-shattering, but there are some fine works to be discovered if you're into Poulenc/Ravel (he spent a considerable amount of time in Paris) and the lighter side of Stravinsky. He died far too young, as he was deported to an extermination camp in '43. Had he not distributed his unpublished works to his pupils during his last days in Amsterdam, we might have never heard any of this music.
[asin]B00P9ZYMZ0[/asin]
Quote from: Klaze on January 27, 2015, 01:24:52 PM
The complete works by Leo Smit have been rereleased by Etcetera some time ago. Nothing earth-shattering, but there are some fine works to be discovered if you're into Poulenc/Ravel (he spent a considerable amount of time in Paris) and the lighter side of Stravinsky. He died far too young, as he was deported to an extermination camp in '43. Had he not distributed his unpublished works to his pupils during his last days in Amsterdam, we might have never heard any of this music.
[asin]B00P9ZYMZ0[/asin]
I've been wondering when Etcetera were going to reissue this set. Just bought it! Thanks, Klaze.
Quote from: Mirror Image on January 27, 2015, 01:45:39 PM
I've been wondering when Etcetera were going to reissue this set. Just bought it! Thanks, Klaze.
John
Olympia released four volumes "400 Years Of Dutch Music" plus the one mentioned above "Dutch Masters". It might be difficult to find....
Robert
Quote from: Robert on January 27, 2015, 02:13:13 PM
John
Olympia released four volumes "400 Years Of Dutch Music" plus the one mentioned above "Dutch Masters". It might be difficult to find....
Robert
Hey Robert, Olympia recordings are difficult to track down for good prices. I wish more Pijper was available. He's regarded as one of the greatest Dutch composers of the first half of the 20th Century.
Quote from: Mirror Image on January 27, 2015, 01:45:39 PM
I've been wondering when Etcetera were going to reissue this set. Just bought it! Thanks, Klaze.
Great! hope you enjoy it.
Quote from: Mirror Image on January 27, 2015, 02:16:28 PM
Hey Robert, Olympia recordings are difficult to track down for good prices. I wish more Pijper was available. He's regarded as one of the greatest Dutch composers of the first half of the 20th Century.
Pijper has some very nice works, but I find Escher and Vermeulen to be more inspired overall.
I'm not sure, but I think his reputation is also based to a large extent on his influence on other Dutch composers and also on his role as critic and his other functions within the musical establishment.
But yea, a little Pijper goes a long way, I had to resort to vinyl to collect his works. But i think i got most of it covered now.
Anyone familiar with Ton de Leeuw? This is enjoyable stuff as well:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=c1jO2TurwUQ
Quote from: Klaze on January 28, 2015, 10:01:57 AM
Great! hope you enjoy it.
Pijper has some very nice works, but I find Escher and Vermeulen to be more inspired overall.
I'm not sure, but I think his reputation is also based to a large extent on his influence on other Dutch composers and also on his role as critic and his other functions within the musical establishment.
But yea, a little Pijper goes a long way, I had to resort to vinyl to collect his works. But i think i got most of it covered now.
Anyone familiar with Ton de Leeuw? This is enjoyable stuff as well:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=c1jO2TurwUQ
Cool, thanks for the recommendations. I'll check out Escher and Vermeulen. I've heard of both of these composers, but I haven't heard any of their music.
Quote from: Mirror Image on January 28, 2015, 06:05:36 PM
Cool, thanks for the recommendations. I'll check out Escher and Vermeulen. I've heard of both of these composers, but I haven't heard any of their music.
Both are fine composers and especially Vermeulen (try the first two symphonies to start with, and how completely different they are) has his own fan club. I would personally recommend to 'start' with Orthel (Second and Third Symphonies especially) and also Hendrik Andriessen. Yes, father of, and more and more respected by the son as the special composer (and great man) he was.
Here's the son listening in the audience to his father's Ricercare (after 23 seconds): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZwbZz7NSTMA
Orthel's Second Symphony (great work!): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-d2evVqZps4 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-d2evVqZps4)
Quote from: Mirror Image on January 28, 2015, 06:05:36 PM
Cool, thanks for the recommendations. I'll check out Escher and Vermeulen. I've heard of both of these composers, but I haven't heard any of their music.
Nice, as Christo said, for Vermeulen, definitely check out Symphony No.2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tJaQRPKt_X8
Escher is not a composer that I immediately appreciated, not because he is so experimental or anything, but because he is usually quite subtle and not the type of guy who goes for spectacular effects or keeps hitting you with a catchy theme. I think that most people tend to be more into orchestral works here?, but in my opinion Escher's best works are mainly chamber music, try the Sonata concertante for cello and piano for example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WU0enDCMESY
Musique pour lésprit en deuil is a nice orchestral work: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pb6hpFkzwDw
But in all honesty, I could recommend a bunch of Escher works. I really think his, rather small, oeuvre is of a consistently very high quality.
I have enjoyed the works of Alfons Diepenbrock too largely thanks to Christo.
[asin]B000QCQ7M2[/asin]
The inexpensive set above is a great way to discover this late romantic composer. I love the Caspar David Friedrich cover art too.
Thanks, Johan, Klaze, and everyone else for your recommendations.
Quote from: vandermolen on January 29, 2015, 02:46:14 PM
I have enjoyed the works of Alfons Diepenbrock too largely thanks to Christo.
[asin]B000QCQ7M2[/asin]
The inexpensive set above is a great way to discover this late romantic composer. I love the Caspar David Friedrich cover art too.
Of course, if people want to splurge on Diepenbrock, they'll need to get this set:
(http://www.jpc.de/image/w600/front/0/8711801014357.jpg)
I haven't began to dig into the treasures in this set, but I really like the orchestral works and songs. Beautiful music. Kind of a happy medium stylistically between R. Strauss and Debussy.
http://youtu.be/P-o8sDVkVLg
Escher's Hymne du grand Meaulnes is an alltime favorite . Sadness, mystery, youthfull longing....Wonderful!
Peter
Quote from: pjme on January 30, 2015, 03:52:58 AMhttp://youtu.be/P-o8sDVkVLg Escher's Hymne du grand Meaulnes is an alltime favorite . Sadness, mystery, youthfull longing....Wonderful! Peter
Good to be reminded of the piece again. And also, to discover that it's finally available on CD too:
(http://cps-static.rovicorp.com/3/JPG_400/MI0001/025/MI0001025735.jpg?partner=allrovi.com)
Have we discussed the music of Jan van Gilse (1881-1944) whose Third Symphony (1909) I have just discovered? It has a Mahlerian quality to it and also reminded me a bit of the music of one of my very favourite composers Vitezslav Novak. The symphony lasts over an hour and uses a soprano soloist in two of its movements. It would appeal to admirers of Richard Strauss too I guess and those to whom opulent late Romanticism has an appeal. He did not have an easy life during the Nazi occupation of the Netherlands as he refused to collaborate with the German occupiers and his two sons were executed because of their involvement with the resistance movement in the Netherlands. The composer also joined the underground movement:
[asin]B007HOEZ7Q[/asin]
Post # 71 of this thread: symphony no 2.
I have the 4th on CPO. Very good late-romantic stuff.
Right now re-re-listening to Matthijs Vermeulen's fascinating second cello and piano sonata, played by Anner Bylsma and Reinbert de Leeuw. Followed by the Sting Quartet (played by the Schoenberg Quartet).
I'm reviving this thread from a five year slumber to say how much I've been enjoying the music of Hendrik Andriessen, especially Symphony No.3, which is a fine, eloquent and, in places, turbulent symphony, very much of its times (1946) - there is a fine modern recording on CPO as well. Now, on to Leon Orthel :)
Quote from: vandermolen on May 28, 2022, 11:44:33 PM
I'm reviving this thread from a five year slumber to say how much I've been enjoying the music of Hendrik Andriessen, especially Symphony No.3, which is a fine, eloquent and, in places, turbulent symphony, very much of its times (1946). there is a fine modern recording on CPO as well. Now, on to Leon Orthel :)
Another very fine Dutch composer ! :)
Quote from: André on May 29, 2022, 11:42:40 AM
Another very fine Dutch composer ! :)
Excellent! Good to know André :)
Quote from: vandermolen on May 29, 2022, 11:48:47 AM
Excellent! Good to know André :)
Go for his Second Symphony, his masterpiece, the 'Piccola Sinfonia', better than his Third, which is a 'war symphony', written during WWII and full of references to it. :)
As I see now, the other Johan already said so:
Quote from: J.Z. Herrenberg on January 29, 2015, 04:37:44 AM
Orthel's Second Symphony (great work!): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-d2evVqZps4 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-d2evVqZps4)
I have the following works by Orthel, all worth attentive listening:
Evocation fo orchestra (Amsterdam Phil., Anton Kersjes)
Scherzo no 2 for orchestra (Marc Soustrot, Het Brabants Orkest)
Symph. no 2, Residentieorkest den Hague, Willem van Otterloo
Symph. no. 3, Residentieorkest den Hague, van Otterloo
Symph. no. 4, 'Sinfonia concertante' for piano and orchestra (composer at the piano, Netherlands Radio Phil., Jean Fournet).
Quote from: Christo on May 29, 2022, 11:58:50 AM
Go for his Second Symphony, his masterpiece, the 'Piccola Sinfonia', better than his Third, which is a 'war symphony', written during WWII and full of references to it. :)
As I see now, the other Johan already said so:
Thanks Johan!
I'm now listening to 'Evocazione' - which is terrific!
Unfortunately the ET'CETERA double CD set doesn't feature Symphony No.2 (only 3 and 4) but I will be looking out for it.
Oddly enough I'm sure that 'Evociazone' was once used as background music for a drama documentary about the life of the painter Jacques Louis David.
The 'other Johan' returns... The Third Symphony is my favourite Andriessen symphony. A marvellous piece. I prefer a historic performance, under Jean Fournet. You can find it here: https://youtu.be/d4jmwDh9eVo (https://youtu.be/d4jmwDh9eVo)
As for Orthel, I still love that Second Symphony, a minor masterpiece, in my opinion. Scherzo No. 2 is just as good.
Quote from: J.Z. Herrenberg on May 29, 2022, 02:00:30 PM
The 'other Johan' returns... The Third Symphony is my favourite Andriessen symphony. A marvellous piece. I prefer a historic performance, under Jean Fournet. You can find it here: https://youtu.be/d4jmwDh9eVo (https://youtu.be/d4jmwDh9eVo)
As for Orthel, I still love that Second Symphony, a minor masterpiece, in my opinion. Scherzo No. 2 is just as good.
Good to see the return of the 'other' Johan ;D
I thought that this thread might bring you out of hibernation ;D
I see that the Orthel Symphony No.2 is on You Tube, so I will track it down there. Totally agree about Andriessen's 3rd Symphony and fortunately have both recordings of it (I like them both).
Quote from: vandermolen on May 29, 2022, 10:44:42 PM
Good to see the return of the 'other' Johan ;D
I thought that this thread might bring you out of hibernation ;D
Summer is coming.
I've had Orthel's 'Evocazione' and 3rd Symphony on repeat listening - two great discoveries for me. I know that others have been enthusing over the 2nd Symphony (which I'm yet to hear) but I have been moved and impressed by the 3rd Symphony, especially the opening movement. I'm playing that Symphony again now.
(//)
Quote from: vandermolen on May 30, 2022, 10:38:19 PM
I've had Orthel's 'Evocazione' and 3rd Symphony on repeat listening - two great discoveries for me. I know that others have been enthusing over the 2nd Symphony (which I'm yet to hear) but I have been moved and impressed by the 3rd Symphony, especially the opening movement. I'm playing that Symphony again now.
The Third is a beautiful piece, so - enjoy!
Quote from: J.Z. Herrenberg on May 30, 2022, 10:45:37 PM
The Third is a beautiful piece, so - enjoy!
Thanks Johan - I'm currently enjoying the 4th Symphony, which is rather like a piano concerto.
Every work on this CD (Evocazione, 3rd and 4th Symphony) has given me much pleasure and they make a great programme of works.
Quote from: beer on November 17, 2007, 02:08:21 AM
Yeah he Dutch and I agree the greatest. He is the Jimmy Hendrix of organ music with his psychedelic works and (must have) infuenced many composers to come.
Note that I dont know any other Dutch composers and Im Dutch
Super old comment but I liked this and agree ;D
It seems clarify relationship between Johan and Bernard Wagenaar that was quite obscure
https://www.icebreaker.org.uk/diderik-wagenaar.html
Lahav Shani conducted Pijper"'s second symphony twice - in Rotterdam and Berlin.
Edo de Waart performed a lot of Dutch composers. these adagios are Pijpers most lyrical, symphonic work.
Quote from: vandermolen on May 30, 2022, 10:38:19 PMI've had Orthel's 'Evocazione' and 3rd Symphony on repeat listening - two great discoveries for me. I know that others have been enthusing over the 2nd Symphony (which I'm yet to hear) but I have been moved and impressed by the 3rd Symphony, especially the opening movement. I'm playing that Symphony again now.
absolutely and incomprehensibly forgotten
To be released on July 23rd:
(https://d1iiivw74516uk.cloudfront.net/eyJidWNrZXQiOiJwcmVzdG8tY292ZXItaW1hZ2VzIiwia2V5IjoiOTY0MDAyMS4xLmpwZyIsImVkaXRzIjp7InJlc2l6ZSI6eyJ3aWR0aCI6OTAwfSwid2VicCI6eyJxdWFsaXR5Ijo2NX0sInRvRm9ybWF0Ijoid2VicCJ9LCJ0aW1lc3RhbXAiOjE3MTk0MTIxNTF9)
The Piano Quintet in D-flat major, op. 5 (1901) by the Dutch composer Dirk Schäfer is a real gem (there's a typo on the front cover, the Schlegel is the piano quartet and it is not in the same league as the aforementioned work). I don't know many chamber works by composers of this nationality, but this tuneful, passionate, well-crafted, memorable quintet clearly stands out and might reach the category of masterpiece I think. According to some notes I wrote down, I listened to it more than 4 years ago, and glad I revisited it today. A formidable composition.
(https://is1-ssl.mzstatic.com/image/thumb/Music114/v4/f0/23/87/f02387dc-668f-1f5c-b2f4-e11dd8bc30e2/8713309920468.png/600x600bf-60.jpg)
Quote from: Symphonic Addict on August 04, 2024, 06:02:18 PMThe Piano Quintet in D-flat major, op. 5 (1901) by the Dutch composer Dirk Schäfer is a real gem (there's a typo on the front cover, the Schlegel is the piano quartet and it is not in the same league as the aforementioned work). I don't know many chamber works by composers of this nationality, but this tuneful, passionate, well-crafted, memorable quintet clearly stands out and might reach the category of masterpiece I think. According to some notes I wrote down, I listened to it more than 4 years ago, and glad I revisited it today. A formidable composition.
(https://is1-ssl.mzstatic.com/image/thumb/Music114/v4/f0/23/87/f02387dc-668f-1f5c-b2f4-e11dd8bc30e2/8713309920468.png/600x600bf-60.jpg)
Fully agreed! That opening theme is so catchy. I also love the fact that it's in my favorite key! ;)
Quote from: kyjo on August 06, 2024, 06:14:56 AMFully agreed! That opening theme is so catchy. I also love the fact that it's in my favorite key! ;)
Indeed, and it reappears in the fourth movement to give the work a cyclical form.
I wish more prominent works had been written in this key. There's something subdued and special about it.
Another brand-new release already available for streaming:
(https://d1iiivw74516uk.cloudfront.net/eyJidWNrZXQiOiJwcmVzdG8tY292ZXItaW1hZ2VzIiwia2V5IjoiOTY2MTcxMi4xLmpwZyIsImVkaXRzIjp7InJlc2l6ZSI6eyJ3aWR0aCI6OTAwfSwid2VicCI6eyJxdWFsaXR5Ijo2NX0sInRvRm9ybWF0Ijoid2VicCJ9LCJ0aW1lc3RhbXAiOjE3MjMwMzk2MTB9)
Quote from: Symphonic Addict on August 07, 2024, 05:55:41 PMAnother new-brand release already available for streaming:
(https://d1iiivw74516uk.cloudfront.net/eyJidWNrZXQiOiJwcmVzdG8tY292ZXItaW1hZ2VzIiwia2V5IjoiOTY2MTcxMi4xLmpwZyIsImVkaXRzIjp7InJlc2l6ZSI6eyJ3aWR0aCI6OTAwfSwid2VicCI6eyJxdWFsaXR5Ijo2NX0sInRvRm9ybWF0Ijoid2VicCJ9LCJ0aW1lc3RhbXAiOjE3MjMwMzk2MTB9)
Love this one, one of the best "Beethoven time & style" symphonies I know. We already had this wonderfull recording:
(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/NnXoMmAAwo8/maxresdefault.jpg)
https://www.documuziekproductie.nl/cds/theo-olof
Met Theo Olof's grandson,
Johan Olof, two weeks ago. A violonist, he led the Amsterdam String Orchestra
Lundi Bleu ('Blue Monday', the orchestra is an "extra" for most performers, in order to be able to do some 20th century music). His programme -- perfect performances -- was daring enough:
- George Antheil, Serenade for Strings
- Ralph Vaughan Williams, Charterhouse Suite
- Geörgy Ligeti, Hommage a Ligeti
- Alfred Schnittke, Moz-Art à la Haydn
A couple of weeks ago - an interesting concert by PhilZuid/Duncan Ward conductor, Alice Sara Ott, piano
I especially loved Joey Roukens Distorted fantasia after J.P.Sweelinck
Bryce Dessners pianoconcerto (written for Ott) was very repetitively busy, but left me absolutely cold
Duncan Ward and PhilZuid gave good performances of two Respighi classics: Fontane di Roma and Feste Romane
Quote from: Christo on December 29, 2024, 10:10:33 PMMet Theo Olof's grandson, Johan Olof, two weeks ago. A violonist, he led the Amsterdam String Orchestra Lundi Bleu ('Blue Monday', the orchestra is an "extra" for most performers, in order to be able to do some 20th century music). His programme -- perfect performances -- was daring enough:
- George Antheil, Serenade for Strings
- Ralph Vaughan Williams, Charterhouse Suite
- Geörgy Ligeti, Hommage a Ligeti
- Alfred Schnittke, Moz-Art à la Haydn
Nice!
Johan Olaf's penchant for 20th century music is only natural, given his descent :) . His father was the dedicatee of
Bruno Maderna's superb
Violin Concerto.
Another interesting CPO recording to be released on 19 June:
(https://d1iiivw74516uk.cloudfront.net/eyJidWNrZXQiOiJwcmVzdG8tY292ZXItaW1hZ2VzIiwia2V5IjoiOTc3ODAwMy4xLmpwZyIsImVkaXRzIjp7InJlc2l6ZSI6eyJ3aWR0aCI6OTAwfSwid2VicCI6eyJxdWFsaXR5Ijo2NX0sInRvRm9ybWF0Ijoid2VicCJ9LCJ0aW1lc3RhbXAiOjE3NDc2NjMzNjl9)
Quote from: Christo on December 29, 2024, 10:10:33 PMGeörgy Ligeti, Hommage a Ligeti
Ligeti wrote an
hommage to himself? That may be the most
Ligeti thing I's ever heard of.
Quote from: Karl Henning on May 21, 2025, 11:34:08 AMLigeti wrote an hommage to himself? That may be the most Ligeti thing I's ever heard of.
Hah. Certainly
@Christo meant
Horn Trio, "Hommage à Brahms".
....or Hommage to Hilding Rosenberg? ::)
Jan Ingenhoven (1876-1951)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jan_Ingenhoven
to be explored....! :)
"Ingenhoven composed orchestral music in a late Romantic style, comparable to Franz Schmidt, Richard Strauss and Alexander Zemlinsky. Typical are the three orchestral Symphonic Poems (Lyrical, Dramatic, Romantic) composed between 1905 and 1908: the second of these was performed three times by the Concertgebouw Orchestra in September 1915, conducted by Evert Cornelis. Other large scale orchestral pieces in much the same vein are the Symphonische Fantasie über Zarathustras (1906) and the Symphonische Fantasie Brabant and Holland (1910–11).[4]A more original side of his work is seen in his songs, vocal quartets and choral music. The song cycle Blumenlieder (1907–8) - seven flower songs with words by various authors - experiments with a declamatory style which closely reflects the accents, relative lengths and inflections of the text.[3] The vocal quartet 'Nous n'irons plus au bois' (1909) from the 4 quatuors à voix mixtes, was claimed by Ingenhoven to be the first atonal vocal work by a Dutch composer.[1][5] The choral settings put an emphasis on intricate polyphony, derived both from Renaissance music and his contemporary Max Reger.[1]Ingenhoven also composed much chamber music, including three String Quartets, a Quintet for woodwind, a Clarinet Sonata, two Violin Sonatas, two Cello Sonatas, and various combinations of trios. His later music showed an increasing influence from French music (particularly Debussy) and a turning away from Romanticism to a more objective style.[4] In particular, the later chamber works combine his interest in polyphony with a more homophonic approach, harmonically ambiguous with long melismatic melodies of little thematic function.[3]His work as a composer was admired by contemporaries such as Matthijs Vermeulen, Willem Landré and Daniël Ruyneman,[6] but after his German period Ingenhoven himself did little to promote his compositions.[3]"
Quote from: Der lächelnde Schatten on May 22, 2025, 05:14:37 AMHah. Certainly @Christo meant Horn Trio, "Hommage à Brahms".
No, no. What was called the "Hommage a Ligeti" was actually a re-enactment of his 1962
Poème symphonique for one hundred mechanical metronomes, Ligeti's contribution to the 'Holland Festival'. Lundi Bleu did it with 25 metronomes on their mobile phones, big fun indeed. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Po%C3%A8me_symphonique
Quote from: Christo on May 27, 2025, 02:21:05 AMNo, no. What was called the "Hommage a Ligeti" was actually a re-enactment of his 1962 Poème symphonique for one hundred mechanical metronomes, Ligeti's contribution to the 'Holland Festival'. Lundi Bleu did it with 25 metronomes on their mobile phones, big fun indeed. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Po%C3%A8me_symphonique
Ah okay. Interesting. Thanks for the info. 8)
Another forthcoming release devoted to Bosmans. Available from 17 July on:
(https://d1iiivw74516uk.cloudfront.net/eyJidWNrZXQiOiJwcmVzdG8tY292ZXItaW1hZ2VzIiwia2V5IjoiOTc4MDc2Ni4xLmpwZyIsImVkaXRzIjp7InJlc2l6ZSI6eyJ3aWR0aCI6OTAwfSwid2VicCI6eyJxdWFsaXR5Ijo2NX0sInRvRm9ybWF0Ijoid2VicCJ9LCJ0aW1lc3RhbXAiOjE3NDkwNDU5MTF9)
Quote from: Symphonic Addict on June 16, 2025, 09:32:31 AMAnother forthcoming release devoted to Bosmans. Available from 17 July on:
(https://d1iiivw74516uk.cloudfront.net/eyJidWNrZXQiOiJwcmVzdG8tY292ZXItaW1hZ2VzIiwia2V5IjoiOTc4MDc2Ni4xLmpwZyIsImVkaXRzIjp7InJlc2l6ZSI6eyJ3aWR0aCI6OTAwfSwid2VicCI6eyJxdWFsaXR5Ijo2NX0sInRvRm9ybWF0Ijoid2VicCJ9LCJ0aW1lc3RhbXAiOjE3NDkwNDU5MTF9)
Along with the forthcoming release you mentioned containing her cello concerti, this will be a very welcome release!
However (as a certain YouTube music critic would say ;)), I do wish they could've found a more inspired cellist than Raphael Wallfisch to record these works. As much as I admire him for recording so much great lesser-known cello repertoire, I find his playing consistently uncompelling, especially with regards to his lack of variation in tone color and character in his sound. Maybe this is just my pretentious musician side showing itself, but I can't help but being critical when I feel it's warranted. :)
Quote from: kyjo on June 16, 2025, 12:12:49 PMAlong with the forthcoming release you mentioned containing her cello concerti, this will be a very welcome release! However (as a certain YouTube music critic would say ;)), I do wish they could've found a more inspired cellist than Raphael Wallfisch to record these works. As much as I admire him for recording so much great lesser-known cello repertoire, I find his playing consistently uncompelling, especially with regards to his lack of variation in tone color and character in his sound. Maybe this is just my pretentious musician side showing itself, but I can't help but being critical when I feel it's warranted. :)
Yes, Wallfisch hardly ever stands out as a top-tier cellist, but at least he has performed very unusual repertoire that otherwise would've been unrecorded yet. He's almost like the cello counterpart of Oliver Triendl in that regard.
Quote from: Symphonic Addict on May 21, 2025, 08:27:23 AMAnother interesting CPO recording to be released on 19 June:
(https://d1iiivw74516uk.cloudfront.net/eyJidWNrZXQiOiJwcmVzdG8tY292ZXItaW1hZ2VzIiwia2V5IjoiOTc3ODAwMy4xLmpwZyIsImVkaXRzIjp7InJlc2l6ZSI6eyJ3aWR0aCI6OTAwfSwid2VicCI6eyJxdWFsaXR5Ijo2NX0sInRvRm9ybWF0Ijoid2VicCJ9LCJ0aW1lc3RhbXAiOjE3NDc2NjMzNjl9)
Another very fine release. The three works are in a sort of late-Romantic style. The first cello concerto may be a bit long for its material (it lasts 38 minutes), but I thought it didn't outstay its welcome. The second cello concerto, on the other hand, contains more interesting ideas and it's more concise. The 2nd movement is particularly brilliant, what a delicious piece in itself. An excellent work overall. And last but not least, the Poème for cello and orchestra even made a stronger impression. With that powerful opening one is hooked and what comes next only confirms the high quality of the music. It intersperses mischievous passages with others more subdued and poetic as its title indicates, and all covered by a colourful orchestration. For me, the best piece of the CD.
Even though Wallfisch's tone leaves something to be desired, the performances themselves and sound quality of the recording make the pieces a very welcome input to the canon (the Poème had been recorded before, though).
All what I've heard by Bosmans has been substantial and with purpose, showcasing her as a composer of some stature.
(https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.musiques-regenerees.fr%2FPays-Bas%2FBosmansHenriette%2FBosmansZonderMuziekBook.jpg&f=1&nofb=1&ipt=8ba52e3b5582ae6514b4f742645c6a4977ea76b274b0d07566d9b99febbb8ffc)
This biography (Dutch only - Without music life isn't necessary) was issued in 2002...it is -of course - a more than interesting read, giving a good insight into the wondrous twists and turns of a human life.
She had a difficult life: a complicated relationship with her demanding mother, the early death of both her father and her fiancé, violinist Francis Koene, the atrocities of WWII, quite possibly her doubts about being lesbian/bi-sexual...doubts about her artistic development. Bosmans grew up in a musical family, grounded in tradition. It was Willem Pijper who introduced her to more modern techniques, musical possibilities. After the death of Koene she didn't compose for a long time.
After the war Bosmans met singer Noémie Perugia with whom she developed a close friendship that- moreover- rekindled her creativity. Apparently she also had close friendships with Benjamin Britten and Peter Pears and Matthijs Vermeulen.
Sadly that creative period didn't last long. Bosmans developed stomach cancer and died in 1952.
I'm glad that her concertante works (flute, violin, cello, piano) get new attention.
Quote from: Symphonic Addict on June 20, 2025, 11:43:15 AMAnother very fine release. The three works are in a sort of late-Romantic style. The first cello concerto may be a bit long for its material (it lasts 38 minutes), but I thought it didn't outstay its welcome. The second cello concerto, on the other hand, contains more interesting ideas and it's more concise. The 2nd movement is particularly brilliant, what a delicious piece in itself. An excellent work overall. And last but not least, the Poème for cello and orchestra even made a stronger impression. With that powerful opening one is hooked and what comes next only confirms the high quality of the music. It intersperses mischievous passages with others more subdued and poetic as its title indicates, and all covered by a colourful orchestration. For me, the best piece of the CD.
Even though Wallfisch's tone leaves something to be desired, the performances themselves and sound quality of the recording make the pieces a very welcome input to the canon (the Poème had been recorded before, though).
All what I've heard by Bosmans has been substantial and with purpose, showcasing her as a composer of some stature.
I agree about the excellence of the
Poème, Cesar. Recently, I listened to the recording contained here, excellently played by cellist Dmitri Ferschtman:
(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/91SPZ6ZmhQL._SY355_.jpg)
Also contained are Willem Pijper's typically concise and quirky Concerto, Leo Smit's intriguing and even shorter Concertino, and Hans Kox's Concerto which I haven't heard in full yet but sounds quite interesting.
More Bosmans. To be released on 19 September:
(https://i.imgur.com/dQ02IsW.png)
Poème for cello and orchestra
Cello Concerto No. 2
Concertstück for violin and orchestra
Quote from: Symphonic Addict on June 20, 2025, 11:43:15 AMAnother very fine release. The three works are in a sort of late-Romantic style. The first cello concerto may be a bit long for its material (it lasts 38 minutes), but I thought it didn't outstay its welcome. The second cello concerto, on the other hand, contains more interesting ideas and it's more concise. The 2nd movement is particularly brilliant, what a delicious piece in itself. An excellent work overall. And last but not least, the Poème for cello and orchestra even made a stronger impression. With that powerful opening one is hooked and what comes next only confirms the high quality of the music. It intersperses mischievous passages with others more subdued and poetic as its title indicates, and all covered by a colourful orchestration. For me, the best piece of the CD.
Even though Wallfisch's tone leaves something to be desired, the performances themselves and sound quality of the recording make the pieces a very welcome input to the canon (the Poème had been recorded before, though).
All what I've heard by Bosmans has been substantial and with purpose, showcasing her as a composer of some stature.
Thanks for the review. And another great cover painting from CPO!
Quote from: Symphonic Addict on July 31, 2025, 08:41:25 AMMore Bosmans. To be released on 19 September:
(https://i.imgur.com/dQ02IsW.png)
Poème for cello and orchestra
Cello Concerto No. 2
Concertstück for violin and orchestra
Wow, more great news! On the basis of what I've heard by her, Bosmans definitely deserves the attention she's just now receiving.
To be released on 25 September:
(https://d1iiivw74516uk.cloudfront.net/eyJidWNrZXQiOiJwcmVzdG8tY292ZXItaW1hZ2VzIiwia2V5IjoiOTgwMTk0Ny4xLmpwZyIsImVkaXRzIjp7InJlc2l6ZSI6eyJ3aWR0aCI6NDMyfSwid2VicCI6eyJxdWFsaXR5Ijo2NX0sInRvRm9ybWF0Ijoid2VicCJ9LCJ0aW1lc3RhbXAiOjE3NTUxODAyMDF9)
That is good news! I heard that performance on the radio in 2023 and posted it here
https://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php?topic=32215.0
"In 1929, Van Gilse began to set lyrics to music by Rainer Maria von Rilke, who had died of leukemia three years earlier. For what he called Der Kreis des Lebens, Van Gilse drew on early works by Rilke: Die frühe Gedichte (published in 1909) and Das Buch der Bilder (published in its original form in 1902, expanded in 1906 and 1913). You could see a life cycle in the free selection that Van Gilse made, ending with a poem about death. Always in our midst, an echo of the Gregorian 'Media vita in morte sumus'. The reason for Van Gilse's composition was the centenary anniversary of the Society for the Promotion of Toonkunst in 1929. Entries were anonymous, under motto, so that the jury would not be able to see who composed what. To Van Gilse's great frustration, the first prize was awarded to a short work by Rudolf Mengelberg. Van Gilse's wife Ada later recalled that the jury (which also included Willem Pijper) thought Van Gilse's work was the strongest. But that Willem Mengelberg, also a member of the jury, had stepped up. There was no way, Mengelberg argued, that he would get this work in with his choir in a short time. The choice then fell on a much smaller work.
In the end, the cantata for soprano, tenor, eight-part choir and orchestra had to wait years for a first performance. Van Gilse offered them to his successor at the USO in 1931, but this Evert Cornelis believed: 'In particular I have taken into account the demands of the work from a choral technical point of view. And in doing so I have to take into account the capacities of the choral societies available to me. Unfortunately, the result of this mature deliberation turned out to be negative. I really don't dare with one of my choirs.' Ultimately, Der Kreis des Lebens did not have its premiere until June 1937, during the Maneto, the Manifestation of Dutch Toonkunst. Incidentally, fair is fair: when Jan van Gilse had lunch at Mengelberg's later, Der Kreis des Lebens was on the wing of his host. Mengelberg praised this, in his eyes, great work, before toasting Van Gilse: 'I have always stood in the sun and he in the shade. There will come a time when he will be in the sun and I will be in the shade!'
Peter"