GMG Classical Music Forum

Another one I'd like to continue from the old forum (http://www.good-music-guide.com/forum/index.php/topic,12792.msg382149.html#msg382149).

I'll start with a quote explaining a famous concept I forgot to mention previously:

QuoteEWA SZCZECIŃSKA: ... Do you still see the situation of music the same way you saw it 20 years ago, ie. as suspended between blather and banality (między bełkotem a banałem)?

PAWEŁ SZYMAŃSKI: I think this has not principally changed. ... The most popular idea is that art - and that means the artist - should create new values, new language, something that would depart from tradition. ... Such a language cannot be understood because languages are intersubjective; a language and convention that only one person understands - their creator - cannot become a medium of communication. The artist begins to blather. He may want to communicate something but no one can understand it - it is too far from the current cultural stereotypes. On the other hand, those stereotypes are banalities. 200, 300 years ago ... Art would evolve in an extensive manner. I don't think Mozart was aware that he was creating new values, he may have been convinced that he was writing the same way everyone else was; we only owe the fact that he created new values to his great genius.

Inspired by the Postmodernism (http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,399.0.html) thread, I'll mention a Pawel Szymanski piece showing nicely his general ideas about composition as a way of "creating new musical contexts out of traditional musical language" (his own words). The piece, La Folia (1979) for tape, involves the idea of collage - as usually with this composer. The piece was prepared with the help of Eugeniusz Rudnik in the Polish Radio Experimental Studio. The composer uses prerecorded sound of a harpsichord played by Wladyslaw Klosiewicz. The traditional language the composer refers to is therefore Baroque.

Thanks for the background info about La Folia!! I had no idea it was based on a harpsichord recording, and this after hearing it many many times.

Well, no wonder. I don't think anyone would have guessed that. Sounds more like some sort of old fashioned synthesizer... ;D

Thank you very much for posting that file Maciek! That's actually the first piece of purely electronic music I've heard. Very interesting indeed. I like how he builds up those themes in very weird counterpoint for the first few minutes, and then when it launches into the crazy old-fashioned synthesiser middle part it sounded kind of funny to me. ;D But after I got over the initial shock, I found that when it culminated in glissando madness it was actually quite moving.

I very much liked the ending too - That obvious harpsichord passage starting approximately 8:05 which seems to change into something halfway to a lute with some sort of distorted recorder coming in later in a Baroque reference sounded like a once-familiar passage now way out of place floating across an alien environment surrounded by those cluster effects and then disintegrating back into synthesiser glissando and fading away...

I suppose electronic music is definitely worth some exploration. And certainly Pawel Szymanski. What else has he written? I can see exactly what he means by artists of today struggling to find something between blather and banality; I agree with him. It relates well to the whole idea of postmodernity as well.

Thanks for your thoughts, Symphonien! It seems you realy "get" this music because your description fits very well with what most musicologists usually say of Szymanski (and what he says himself) - and not everyone hears those things, they're not as obvious as may seem to you!

Quote from: Symphonien on April 29, 2007, 11:26:17 PM
I suppose electronic music is definitely worth some exploration.

It definitely is!

Maciek

Quote from: MrOsa on April 29, 2007, 11:32:36 PM
Thanks for your thoughts, Symphonien! It seems you realy "get" this music because your description fits very well with what most musicologists usually say of Szymanski (and what he says himself) - and not everyone hears those things, they're not as obvious as may seem to you!

Yeah, some composers take more time than others and there are several well-known ones I have yet to come to terms with but that Szymanski piece was just one of those pieces that connected with me quite quickly.

Quote
It definitely is! Check out some of the stuff that loudav made available through his AGP project (http://www.avantgardeproject.org/)! There are some great pieces there! I can also upload a few more of the Polish electronic classics (never released on anything, not even LP!) later, if you want (in the Little-Known Polish Composers thread).

Maciek

Wow, looks like a good site! Thanks a lot, and I'll be sure to check it out. And if you could upload some more in that other thread that'd be great!

Here's a longish quote from Szabolcs Esztenyi who asked Szymanski to write a piece for him (the Two Studies):

Quote from: Szabolcs Esztenyi

These are Studies in the strict sense of the term, from beginning to end - there must be tens of thousands of notes, the systems are heaped one upon another immensely and at the same time there is an enormous, striking simplicity of the initial structural premise in both of them.
...
The first Study is based on vertical structures, on chord-like structures. ... Pawel used the method of superimposing two, three, four and even more layers which are out of phase - it is, scientifically speaking, authentically "simultaneously multimetric". Different metres are used synchronically and the listener has the right to move from one layer to the other or to enjoy the harmonies and the differences between the layers.
...
However, the second Study ... is stretched out in time. The musical matter is a single-voice melody which sometimes does a loop. The loop is again based on an arithmetic operation. This Study is performed by both hands playing the melody using very quick repetitions, and the second hand always plays one sound more than the first hand, so here again they are out of phase. And smaller loops appear, currents, mists, clouds of sound. It is impossibly difficult to perform.
...
My conclusion is that what Pawel offered here, in both the Studies, is revelatory, I'd even say they are a work of genius. Never before has any composer in any piece used similar composing devices. ... Of course, I can't say I've seen every piece ever composed but I am 65 years old and I have never encountered a single Study of this calibre. ... I noticed that from the very beginning of my work with these pieces, as a pianist, I had to build myself anew, practically from scratch. ... I had to get back to my starting point as a pianist and learn everything about rhythm from the beginning.

I'm glad at least one great pianist shares my views... ;D

Cheers,
Maciek

Szymanski - 3 Georg Trakl Songs. Version for soprano and chamber orchestra

The piece was first written for soprano and piano in January 2002, then Szymanski prepared the version with chamber orchestra in February of the same year. In 2003 he prepared an alto version for Jadwiga Rappé (with piano) - she performed that version for the first time in 2004 in the National Philharmonic (Warsaw). In 2005 the soprano and piano version was first performed by Urszula Kryger and Tomasz Herbut in Wurzburg. Tha chamber orchestra version was first performed in November 2006 during the Pawel Szymanski Festival in Warsaw by Urszula Kryger and The Orchestra of New Music (Orkiestra Muzyki Nowej) conducted by Szymon Bywalec.

Thanks a lot for that Maciek! I'll listen when I have time.

Wow! Thank heaps! A lot of music there to get through. :o

Not just the electronic stuff, but the rest of it looks interesting as well! I'll work my way through it all some time, but I've been very busy lately. And I've also just recently discovered Nancarrow's Player Piano Studies for the first time. Amazing music... ;D

Yes! I don't know all of them but they are amazing! :o

Indeed they are! I have the complete set, and the only thing that makes me tire of them is the sound of the player piano getting a bit grating on the ears after a while.

Anyway, as for those 3 songs, I'm not much into singing (at least, not yet) but I actually did enjoy them. Very mystical sounding, but that 3rd one was just beautiful. Szymanski's style here sounds so familiar to me, yet I just can't place it, where it's from... he's truly made it his own. He seems to have a great skill at writing something completely original without having to resort to extreme complexity ("blather"), yet manages to avoid "banality". (I like these terms, he expresses the dilemma of writing contemporary music perfectly!)

What can I say? I'm glad you liked it! And thanks for keeping the thread alive!

Important piece of news I managed to miss until today:

QuoteRESULTS of the 2007 International Rostrum of Composers

CATEGORIE GENERALE / GENERAL CATEGORY

OEUVRES RECOMMANDEES / RECOMMENDED WORKS

Paweł SZYMAŃSKI (Pologne/Poland) Drei Lieder nach Trakl

This, of course, happens to be the piece I've uploaded a couple of posts above and that Symphonien commented so favorably on. :D

The news were released on June 11th.

Wow! Very interesting indeed. Good to know that Szymanski is being highly regarded in the contemporary music scene.

Looking forward to hearing some more of his works soon when my download finishes. :D Thanks Maciek!

Well, he's more than 50 - it's high time he was recognized. ;D Anyway, Szymanski's pieces have already made it to the "recommended" UNESCO list at least twice before. This happened to his early (1979) piece Gloria and to Miserere (1993) which you are going to hear soon.

Gloria is definitely an early piece but most of Szymanski's characteristic traits are already there. Just that perhaps he hadn't achieved a complete mastery over them just then. Or maybe he had...?

Maciek

Quote from: Maciek on June 26, 2007, 05:27:09 AM
Here you go! It's definitely an early piece but most of Szymanski's characteristic traits are already there. Just that perhaps he hadn't achieved a complete mastery over them just then. Or maybe he had...?

Gloria performed by the Polish Radio Choir and Orchestra in Cracow, conducted by Tadeusz Wojciechowski:

DownloadLink: http://rapidshare.com/files/39429717/Szyma_ski_Pawe__Gloria__1979__na_ch_r__e_ski_i_orkiestr__ChiOPR_w_Kr_Tadeusz_Wojciechowski.mp3 (http://rapidshare.com/files/39429717/Szyma_ski_Pawe__Gloria__1979__na_ch_r__e_ski_i_orkiestr__ChiOPR_w_Kr_Tadeusz_Wojciechowski.mp3)

File-Size: 14,24 MB

Maciek

That's wonderful. Thanks very much for the link, Maciek.

A completely different kind of piece is Szymanski's A Study of Shade for orchestra (from a series of 2 studies for orchestra) - slow, meditative, brooding, with the music seemingly standing still all the way through. He has written a few more in a similar vein (Singletrack for piano, for example) but they certainly do not dominate in his output. It is also worth noting that parts of A Study of Shade have an uncanny resemblance to his Quasi una sinfonietta (the slow movement) and the soundtrack he wrote to the documentary State of Weightlessness (later made into a suite of sorts called Film Music).

My absolutely favorite Szymanski composition (well maybe on par with some of his chamber pieces from the Silesian Quartet disc). His Quasi una sinfonietta. A brilliant showcase of his composing method. And the haunting beauty of the slow middle movement!

The Pawel Szymanski Festival DVD was due out this spring. Well, it didn't come out then but now it finally has arrived. The official release date is - this Saturday (http://www.pwa.gov.pl/en/home/2/news/0/311/index.html)!!!

Well, in fact they actually released FIVE DVDs of Szymanski's music! :o :o :o 8) :D :D :D

This 4-DVD set, which contains almost every piece performed during the festival. And this 1-DVD "reduction" for the stingier types.

This whole QUDSIYA ZAHER situation is tiring... Hopefully he will manage to write it one day...

Quote from: QUDSIYA ZAHER on June 09, 2008, 03:30:32 AM
This whole QUDSIYA ZAHER situation is tiring... Hopefully he will manage to write it one day...

I've been talking to a friend with "inside knowledge" and according to her, the opera has been completed about 2-3 years ago, and is patiently waiting for the National Opera in Warsaw to finally stage it. >:(

It's been far too long since I've listened to Szymanski so I thought it was finally time to get back to this thread and post some opinions. Surely Szymanski deserves his thread to be bumped up and for some more people to take notice of him? :) Recently I've been trying to play catch-up with all that Szymanski I now have on my computer. And I still have plenty left to listen to (and download). ;) So I will try to post some short opinions as I listen to some more of his works.

Last night I returned to La Folia (the piece that started my interest in the composer), as well as Quasi una sinfonietta, A Study of Shade and the Piano Concerto (the last three I listened to once each a long time ago). La Folia remains a masterpiece in my view, even without considering that it was written with the technology of 1979! But my favourite piece so far is now the Quasi una sinfonietta. The first movement seems to depict a sort of fragmented Classical/Romantic (Beethovenian perhaps?) music with a particularly memorable part occurring when the music seems to jump about to different scenes punctuated by loud percussion. Sort of like frustratedly flicking between radio stations or through tracks on a CD! Plenty of fun. The second movement is really beyond words, just utterly beautiful... I particularly like the way the sighing string glissandi and percussion are incorporated here. Finally, the last movement briefly recalls the mood of the first before disintegrating away, as Szymanski does so well.

A Study of Shade on the other hand, I didn't like quite as much but it still has a lot going for it. It reminded me very much of the Ligeti of Atmospheres and Lontano but didn't really appeal to me until its second half. I did enjoy the moment where the orchestra reaches a diminished chord which resolves to a dominant seventh, but then dies away about 11 minutes in. A cool effect in this context and after that the music takes on some more of these strangely familiar harmonies and seems to be wanting to resolve somewhere but never quite does. I will definitely return to this one later.

The Piano Concerto I liked, but still haven't quite got my head around its form yet. It begins with some active, rhythmic music driven by the piano but then after 5 minutes it goes into a sort of stasis and stays that way for the rest of its duration. Beautiful music but I don't quite understand how it relates to the opening 5 minutes. And that ending is one of the strangest I've ever heard! This one will probably take some more listens as well.

Today, I went through a CD with Partitas III & IV, Lux Aeterna, Two Studies for Piano and the Miserere. Of the two Partitas, III appealed to me the most and I would rank it right up there with Quasi una sinfonietta amongst Szymanski's best compositions. The opening is amazing, really plunging you straight into a wild ride with some fantastic harpsichord playing. The rest is some more beautiful and typical Szymanski disintegration of Baroque music, and as I mentioned in the Listening thread almost recalls the harpsichord bits at the end of La Folia. Partita IV didn't really do much for me... after about 4 minutes, it seems to rest on a single high note! Some different textures moving around underneath though of course.

Lux Aeterna is very colourful with its mix of piano, harp, celesta (I think) and beautiful choral writing. A nice, relatively short little piece this and I quite enjoyed it even though I don't tend to like vocal music that much. The Miserere I didn't really like as much but the carefully judged string glissandi did impart a strange eerie quality over the top of the vocal lines.

As for the Two Piano Studies, although the first one was interesting with its chordal effects it was the second one that really captured my attention! Extremely beautiful all the way through and very imaginative in the way it emerges from the low cluster that ends the first study. I can describe this one as being like a sort of Bach prelude gently floating away into eternity... There are many images that come to my head here. For example, I can imagine Bach being somehow brought back to life and shown the modern piano. He starts to play something like this and is fascinated by all the possibilities that this instrument has to offer, using the pedal and obsessively repeating certain harmonies. Wonderful piece this one and it has already become one of my favourites.

I also just finished listening to the Concerto Grosso. All I can say for now is - wow, Szymanski certainly loves his Baroque music doesn't he? ;D I think perhaps he may have gotten a bit carried away on this one. Here I was expecting something like Schnittke, but to me it sounds like Szymanski has just appropriated the Baroque style here and not really done anything with it! "Banality" perhaps, but a nice work all the same (maybe it sounded somewhat refreshing since I don't listen to much Baroque music).

Tomorrow I plan to move on to the chamber music! 8)

Hi Bryce! Nice comments - you've made me think I need to listen to some Szymanski today. ;D

Quote from: Symphonien on September 28, 2008, 09:18:39 PM
But my favourite piece so far is now the Quasi una sinfonietta. The first movement seems to depict a sort of fragmented Classical/Romantic (Beethovenian perhaps?) music with a particularly memorable part occurring when the music seems to jump about to different scenes punctuated by loud percussion. Sort of like frustratedly flicking between radio stations or through tracks on a CD! Plenty of fun. The second movement is really beyond words, just utterly beautiful... I particularly like the way the sighing string glissandi and percussion are incorporated here. Finally, the last movement briefly recalls the mood of the first before disintegrating away, as Szymanski does so well.

100% agreement here. It's one of my 3 or 4 very favorite Szymanski pieces. And the slow (middle) movement is absolutely divine, one of the best things he's ever done.

Quote
A Study of Shade on the other hand, I didn't like quite as much but it still has a lot going for it.

Did you listen to it together with its counterpart, A Study of Outline? It makes much more sense that way (with A Study of Outline as the first movement). My sentiments used to be exactly like yours, I considered it sort of "meh", until a couple of months ago I finally listened to both pieces together (as Two Studies for orchestra). And now I rank it with Two Studies for piano!

Of course, you might not like it even then. I think you will like the first study, with it's breathtaking superposition of rhythmic patterns. But as a whole Two Studies for orchestra is formally very similar to both the 4th Partita and the Piano Concerto (two movements, short dynamic first, slow, extremely extended second) - since you only "like" (and don't "love" ;)) those, A Study of Shade might still not work for you, even in its original surroundings.

My personal (current) Szymanski pantheon is, in random order: 2 Pieces for String Quartet, 2 Studies for Piano (only I prefer the first, but I love them both, consider this to be a masterpiece, in fact), Partita IV, Piano Concerto, 2 Studies for Orchestra, Quasi una sinfonietta. And not far behind, there are quite a few more (the extremely delicate, beautiful chlorophaenhylohydroxipiperidinofluorobutyrophaenon, the dynamic Sonata for chamber orchestra, Kaleidoscope, 2 Illusory Constructions, 5 Pieces for SQ etc. etc. etc.). So there's an interesting overlap in our tastes (Quasi una sinfonietta, 2 Studies for piano) - with a simultaneous strong contrast (Partita IV, Piano Concerto). I find that fact really fascinating and pleasing in a strange sort of way. (Yeah, I'm odd ;D)

Quote
I also just finished listening to the Concerto Grosso. All I can say for now is - wow, Szymanski certainly loves his Baroque music doesn't he? ;D I think perhaps he may have gotten a bit carried away on this one. Here I was expecting something like Schnittke, but to me it sounds like Szymanski has just appropriated the Baroque style here and not really done anything with it! "Banality" perhaps, but a nice work all the same (maybe it sounded somewhat refreshing since I don't listen to much Baroque music).

Actually the Concerto is not a "real" composition. It is one of the two pieces he has officially released which weren't planned to be released. This is the sort of material he works on. He composes pieces like this and then pulls them apart. But he has decided to "show the world" two samples of the early stages of his work - the Concerto grosso and Suite for harpsichord.

I've actually made our resident HIPsters Gurn and Que listen to the Concerto. Gurn enjoyed it very much, Que hasn't commented yet. He was probably too overwhelmed for words. ;D

Quote from: Maciek on September 29, 2008, 01:41:26 AM
Did you listen to it together with its counterpart, A Study of Outline? It makes much more sense that way (with A Study of Outline as the first movement). My sentiments used to be exactly like yours, I considered it sort of "meh", until a couple of months ago I finally listened to both pieces together (as Two Studies for orchestra). And now I rank it with Two Studies for piano!

Of course, you might not like it even then. I think you will like the first study, with it's breathtaking superposition of rhythmic patterns. But as a whole Two Studies for orchestra is formally very similar to both the 4th Partita and the Piano Concerto (two movements, short dynamic first, slow, extremely extended second) - since you only "like" (and don't "love" ;)) those, A Study of Shade might still not work for you, even in its original surroundings.

Ah, ok... I did not realise that it had a partner; thought it was just a stand-alone piece. I will have to listen to the two of them together later then, when I get around to the rest of the orchestral music I haven't heard yet.

So Partita IV and the Piano Concerto are in two movements (attacca though)? This I did not realise and maybe it will help me to better understand them if I consider them this way rather than as one movement. The Two Piano Studies made much more sense to me because they were labelled as such, so I will try listening to these other two pieces then as having separate movements.

Quote
My personal (current) Szymanski pantheon is, in random order: 2 Pieces for String Quartet, 2 Studies for Piano (only I prefer the first, but I love them both, consider this to be a masterpiece, in fact), Partita IV, Piano Concerto, 2 Studies for Orchestra, Quasi una sinfonietta. And not far behind, there are quite a few more (the extremely delicate, beautiful chlorophaenhylohydroxipiperidinofluorobutyrophaenon, the dynamic Sonata for chamber orchestra, Kaleidoscope, 2 Illusory Constructions, 5 Pieces for SQ etc. etc. etc.). So there's an interesting overlap in our tastes (Quasi una sinfonietta, 2 Studies for piano) - with a simultaneous strong contrast (Partita IV, Piano Concerto). I find that fact really fascinating and pleasing in a strange sort of way. (Yeah, I'm odd ;D)

Fascinating indeed! Although I may come to like those latter two pieces yet, time will tell... Good to see plenty of chamber pieces on your list; I'll try and get round to listening to some of those tomorrow. :)

Now just what exactly is chlorophaenhylohydroxipiperidinofluorobutyrophaenon all about? Please tell me you didn't remember how to spell that one off the top of your head! :o

Quote
Actually the Concerto is not a "real" composition. It is one of the two pieces he has officially released which weren't planned to be released. This is the sort of material he works on. He composes pieces like this and then pulls them apart. But he has decided to "show the world" two samples of the early stages of his work - the Concerto grosso and Suite for harpsichord.

Ah, that makes perfect sense then! And I find it really interesting to note that this is the method Szymanski uses - actually composing whole pieces like this and then pulling them apart for his real compositions. Perhaps this is the reason that his "deconstructions" of other styles are so effective in the context of his actual pieces.

It's funny how some people that don't like contemporary music often say things like "I bet these modern composers couldn't actually write a masterpiece in the style of Bach/Beethoven/etc". Well, Szymanski clearly can, and I'm sure he would have been a great Baroque composer if he had lived 300 years ago. :D

Yep, chlorophaenhylohydroxipiperidinofluorobutyrophaenon... Don't you love how that just rolls off the tongue?

Here, I'll do it again:

chlorophaenhylohydroxipiperidinofluorobutyrophaenon

chlorophaenhylohydroxipiperidinofluorobutyrophaenon

Aaah, that was good.

Quote from: Symphonien on September 29, 2008, 05:27:15 AM
So Partita IV and the Piano Concerto are in two movements (attacca though)? This I did not realise and maybe it will help me to better understand them if I consider them this way rather than as one movement. The Two Piano Studies made much more sense to me because they were labelled as such, so I will try listening to these other two pieces then as having separate movements.

Well, I've never seen the scores, but that's how I see (or rather: hear) the pieces. In Partita IV it's more like there's a sort of overlap between movements. Or, actually, it's more like the second movement just can't start: there are a couple of false starts, a sort of battle between the first and second movement, before the first finally gives way and the second really begins...

It seems we have the thread to ourselves. As usual. Ah, the glories of venerating an unjustly ignored composer! ::)

You should definitely try Szymanski's Under a plane tree - his second electronic piece. Brilliant, even funny! though very different to La Folia.

Quote from: Maciek on September 29, 2008, 08:08:27 AM
You should definitely try Szymanski's Under a plane tree - his second electronic piece. Brilliant, even funny! though very different to La Folia.

Just listened to that one and enjoyed it a lot! I actually find it quite similar to La Folia in certain ways really - in its form and treatment of the electronic medium. Both pieces can be categorised as broadly similar in terms of their structure... it would be a bit of an oversimplification but not too far-fetched to describe them as a rough sonata form. They both begin with the "exposition" of a certain idea/sound (harpsichord in La Folia, birds in Under the Plane Tree), then "develop" it until it becomes more and more polyphonic (with copious electronic glissandi and other funny synthesisers in both cases ;D), after that the music dies down and seems to return (a "recapitulation" of sorts) to some of the initial ideas with a more sparse texture (but with some "echoes" of the louder section) before fading out.

I also listened to the string quartets a while ago (Silesian Quartet) and can give some brief first impressions...

The 2 Pieces for String Quartet take that typical Szymanski two movement structure (short dynamic first, longer more static second) and I feel they do quite a good job at making it work in the quartet medium. But as much as I liked them, I can say that it was the 5 Pieces that really impressed me on the first listen and will go to my list of favourite Szymanski works.

The 5 Pieces for String Quartet are just amazing! For the first movement, I really find it difficult to say exactly what sort of material Szymanski is using here to begin with. It just sounds oddly familiar but I can't place it in any distinct period stylistically. This is really part of Szymanki's genius and he shows us here how similar various styles can be in the way he puts together and manipulates this tonal material. Anyway, there is some effective string glissandi (seems to be a hallmark of his style), and some interesting harmonic effects can be heard in those low notes on the cello. The second movement is wonderful in the disjointed, fragmented sound it produces with its combination of short arco and pizzicato notes... here I can detect a Bach Cello Suite; perhaps that cello outburst just before the end puts that in my mind. :) Now the third is just another one of those brilliant Szymanski slow movements, and I find it particularly beautiful because it appears to be built entirely out of harmonics. The fourth is more clearly Baroque-inspired fun - some great rhythmic work and a lovely ending. :D The fifth is permeated by an incessant violin tritone from which the music seems to be trying to seek solace. As a whole, this is truly a fantastic work in my mind. 8)

Photo from a Birthday Party appears to be a less serious work, but a fun one all the same and would probably make a nice encore. The pizzicato chords at the beginning remind me of Ligeti (Hungarian Rock amongst other things) and what follows after that is a rather light-hearted jazzy mood, but interspersed with just detectable traces of some of Szymanski's characteristics.

Well, if you asked me which composition is better, in an objective sense (in so far as that is possible to judge), I would say it's 5 Pieces. But if you wanted to know which one I like more - it's definitely 2 Pieces. Either I simply have something for that 2-movement form of his or, more likely, it's just "listening fatigue". 5 Pieces was one of the very first Szymanski pieces I ever heard. OTOH, it shares that distinction with Quasi una sinfonietta, a piece I will, seemingly, never tire of. ;D Anyway, the pieces for string quartet is definitely a case where I respond to two compositions in different ways intellectually and emotionally. Also, I do like both sets - just prefer the shorter one.

Quote from: Maciek on September 30, 2008, 08:51:35 AM
Well, if you asked me which composition is better, in an objective sense (in so far as that is possible to judge), I would say it's 5 Pieces. But if you wanted to know which one I like more - it's definitely 2 Pieces. Either I simply have something for that 2-movement form of his or, more likely, it's just "listening fatigue". 5 Pieces was one of the very first Szymanski pieces I ever heard. OTOH, it shares that distinction with Quasi una sinfonietta, a piece I will, seemingly, never tire of. ;D Anyway, the pieces for string quartet is definitely a case where I respond to two compositions in different ways intellectually and emotionally. Also, I do like both sets - just prefer the shorter one.

Interesting that you feel this way... Based on my limited experience with these works, all I can say is that I prefer the 5 Pieces so far, whether intellectually or emotionally I don't really know. :D

Just to bump up this thread again while I remember (amazing how quickly it gets buried down in the 3rd page ::)), I have listened to some more of Szymanski's chamber music. I don't really have time for extensive comments so I'll just comment briefly on the two works that made the greatest impression on me: the 2 Illusory Constructions and the Kaleidoscope for MCE. The 2 Constructions once again typify Szymanski's contrasting two movement structure, beginning with a very lively, rhythmical first movement with the sound of the clarinet's high register prominent in the texture. The second movement is possibly the most meditative piece of music I've heard from the composer so far. I suppose it could be described as minimalistic in the way that it is entirely built out of the repetition of one short phrase, yet it is recognisably Szymanski-an in character - great use of repeated, pedalled piano notes; the way the melody is seamlessly tossed around between the trio of instruments; and the ingenius way in which the movement emerges in the first place from a single loud, low piano note which is then sustained. To me, it sounds like another decontextualisation in the same vein as the second of the 2 Studies for Piano; in this case I imagine a small, isolated moment in a musical performance (perhaps a short cadenza or ornamentation) that has been frozen in time and we are allowed to view it as it gently floats in front of us before gradually disappearing into the distance. Puts me in mind of a quote by Rautavaara when he said that through music we should be able to catch "a glimpse of eternity through the window of time" (not that I'm much of a Rautavaara fan but I think it fits quite nicely here).

The Kaleidoscope for MCE, for solo cello maintains more or less the same rough, uneven rhythmic feel throughout but I had a couple of those oddly familiar (déjà vu?) experiences during a couple of moments in the piece that I often have with Szymanski, and I mean that in a good way. At some point in the middle, where the cello plays some squeakier-sounding high notes it began to sound almost strangely like jazz to me, but very far removed. And just before the end, it sounds like Szymanski's postmodern, decontextualised counterpart to the ending of the Prelude from Bach's 1st Cello Suite. Maybe these moments in particular were just my impression, but it's the wonderful postmodern style Szymanski has developed that will inevitably create these sorts of experiences for listeners somewhere in a piece that makes him such a fascinating composer to explore.

Wow, I didn't even mean to post that much! ;D

Let's just keep watching this thread and saving it every time it drops below the surface! :D Like today.

If you liked Kaleidoscope for MCE, you would definitely love the Cellovator disc.

(I'm waiting for our resident cellists to pounce at me for spewing nonsense... :-X)

I have decided he might be a genius.

(Yes, another one.)

It all happened yesterday. I was feeling pretty depressed and listening to all sorts of random stuff on my mp3 player when one of the slow parts of Sixty-odd pages came up - a piece I merely like (as opposed to venerate). But there and then I experienced the same sort of "light" that I usually associate only with vocal Bach. A music that is shot through with light, immersed in it, soaked with it. It somehow made perfect sense in connection with everything else: the russet leaves, the intense smell of apples as I passed a grocer's stall (it was an unusually warm day). Difficult to describe what I mean - it is a certain lightness of texture and stasis of colour that always makes me perceive the world sub specie aeternitatis.

Funny thing is, Sixty-odd pages still doesn't make my "favorite Szymanski" list. ;D

Yesterday I listened to the 2 Studies for orchestra. And I was struck once again by how perfect the double set is as a whole, and by how little sense the second movement makes when it's left on its own. The first movement's presence is absolutely essential, to the point where it doesn't really make sense to call it a "movement" - it's an unbreakable, organic binding. Not only are they intertwined (which is always the case in Szymanski's bipartite pieces), but the second movement simply requires the buildup of tension that the first movement creates - it thrives on that tension, on those tempestuous bursts of energy. Without them, it falls flat. With them - a truly amazing effect is attained, the serene, ululating undulations attain a divine, metaphysical, transcendental quality. The same goes for Partita IV or the Piano Concerto. As much as I love the second "movements" of these pieces, I wouldn't want them on their own - it just wouldn't be the same.

If he absolutely had to release one of the movements separately, the first one would have worked much better. It has great "hit" potential, could easily compete with the likes of Short Ride in a Fast Machine or Lollapalooza (and I believe it's more than a bit more refined).

All of which is not meant to imply that he is incapable of writing slow, calm pieces of interest.

chlorophaenhylohydroxipiperidinofuorobutyrophaenon is a prime example of such a piece: I don't think it ever goes beyond a p, or maybe even pp, but it is a fascinating, even exciting musical journey throughout.

Sorry, that's chlorophaenhylohydroxipiperidinofluorobutyrophaenon. (Was typing too fast.)

 ;)

I think Szymanski's postmodernism has great depth (due, I suppose, to the complexity he introduces in his scores?). While it remains in many respects universal, it seems Szymanski's musical idiom is a highly personal affair, an emanation of his creative personality. (Though I guess those who find his music "artificial" and "contrived" would disagree.)

[Don't really see the point of the comparison, it seems needlessly harsh in retrospect, so have removed it from this post.]

Quote from: Maciek on November 05, 2008, 12:21:29 PM
Have been thinking about the difference between (early) Mykietyn and Szymanski and am still convinced that Mykietyn (up to a point) was simply "writing nice melodies" without much substance, while Szymanski's postmodernism has enormous depth. The funny thing is - I believe that what Mykietyn currently does has enormous depth as well, he finally has found his voice. But if he continued to blindly imitate Szymanski, it would have been his musical undoing - for him, it was clearly a blind alley (even if it lead to enormous popularity, because the music was "easy" and extremely alluring). So, while it remains in many respects universal, it seems Szymanski's musical language is a highly personal affair, a fascinating emanation of his creative personality. This may be difficult to believe/understand for those who find his music "artificial" and "contrived".

I am not familiar with Mykietyn (or of anyone that may have imitated Szymanski for that matter!) but I wouldn't say Szymanski's style is really that "easy" to begin with. Certain pieces perhaps may have an immediate surface appeal due to the familiarity of style/tonality etc, but to my ears there always seems to be a deeper level there as well. He has developed a very unique personal style whereby even the familiar elements are clearly apart of his own soundworld, and the fact that he has actually composed source material such as the Concerto Grosso and the harpsichord pieces speaks volumes. "Artifical" and "contrived" he most certainly is not! Who are these people that said such things? >:D

Quote from: Maciek on October 25, 2008, 11:33:43 AM
All of which is not meant to imply that he is incapable of writing slow, calm pieces of interest.

chlorophaenhylohydroxipiperidinofluorobutyrophaenon is a prime example of such a piece: I don't think it ever goes beyond a p, or maybe even pp, but it is a fascinating, even exciting musical journey throughout.

I did give this one a listen recently. By some strange coincidence, a constant stream of cars seemed to keep driving past my window while I was listening. ;D

Seriously though, do you have any background information on the choice of title or the piece itself? I enjoyed this piece a lot and found the sonorities to be quite fascinating, but I am not sure what this piece is supposed to mean. I can only guess (by the title and the cars) that it is supposed make some sort of environmental statement? Yet I actually found the sound of the cars driving past to be strangely soothing, and very interesting in the context of the music.

Quote from: Symphonien on November 07, 2008, 10:55:08 PM
I am not familiar with Mykietyn (or of anyone that may have imitated Szymanski for that matter!) but I wouldn't say Szymanski's style is really that "easy" to begin with.

Sorry if what I said came out muddled. I did not mean to say that Szymanski is "easy". I meant to say that the imitation of Szymanski that Mykietyn used to produce (he has now turned into a microtonal spectralist, so the situation has changed) was "easy" (he certainly was more "popular" than Szymanski, at least among people who don't normally listen to contemporary music).

Quoteand the fact that he has actually composed source material such as the Concerto Grosso and the harpsichord pieces speaks volumes. "Artifical" and "contrived" he most certainly is not! Who are these people that said such things? >:D

Well, they are the sort of people who think that if notation is precise, or the composer is meticulous about details, then there isn't enough space for "emotion". Also, the argument here would be precisely that pre-composing something and then pulling it apart is "unnatural" etc. ::) ;D

Quote from: Symphonien on November 07, 2008, 11:05:59 PM
Seriously though, do you have any background information on the choice of title or the piece itself?

I have no idea. But considering Szymanski's general outlook on art, I don't think he would ever compose anything with a "program". I think the cars are simply used as abstract sounds, a sort of musique concrète. But I don't know, I've never read any program notes on the piece or anything. I don't even know what that title substance is, exactly. Perhaps knowing that would help? ??? ;D

Quote from: Maciek on October 24, 2008, 12:28:51 PM
Yesterday I listened to the 2 Studies for orchestra. And I was struck once again by how perfect the double set is as a whole, and by how little sense the second movement makes when it's left on its own. The first movement's presence is absolutely essential, to the point where it doesn't really make sense to call it a "movement" - it's an unbreakable, organic binding. Not only are they intertwined (which is always the case in Szymanski's bipartite pieces), but the second movement simply requires the buildup of tension that the first movement creates - it thrives on that tension, on those tempestuous bursts of energy. Without them, it falls flat. With them - a truly amazing effect is attained, the serene, ululating undulations attain a divine, metaphysical, transcendental quality. The same goes for Partita IV or the Piano Concerto. As much as I love the second "movements" of these pieces, I wouldn't want them on their own - it just wouldn't be the same.

If he absolutely had to release one of the movements separately, the first one would have worked much better. It has great "hit" potential, could easily compete with the likes of Short Ride in a Fast Machine or Lollapalooza (and I believe it's more than a bit more refined).

I finally found the time to listen to the 2 Studies and I couldn't agree with you more here. "A Study of Outline" and "A Study of Shade" - all makes perfect sense now. That first movement really acts as a springboard for the second, and since this follows attacca they're really too linked to be listened to separately. When I first listened to the 2nd study by itself it struck me mostly as a pale imitation of Ligeti, but now hearing it in the context of both movements I can recognise more of Szymanski's style and its role as a part of a bigger work.

Regarding your comments about the first movement, it is definitely likeable but I do think you are probably going way too far to suggest it could ever compete with John Adams for popularity! ;D

Quote from: Maciek on November 10, 2008, 11:07:31 AM
Sorry if what I said came out muddled. I did not mean to say that Szymanski is "easy". I meant to say that the imitation of Szymanski that Mykietyn used to produce (he has now turned into a microtonal spectralist, so the situation has changed) was "easy" (he certainly was more "popular" than Szymanski, at least among people who don't normally listen to contemporary music).

Well, they are the sort of people who think that if notation is precise, or the composer is meticulous about details, then there isn't enough space for "emotion". Also, the argument here would be precisely that pre-composing something and then pulling it apart is "unnatural" etc. ::) ;D

Ah ok, well that clears things up a bit then. I probably didn't read your post properly in the first place... oh well, "unnatural" or not Szymanski is still an awesome composer! 8)

Quote from: Maciek on November 10, 2008, 11:14:57 AM
I have no idea. But considering Szymanski's general outlook on art, I don't think he would ever compose anything with a "program". I think the cars are simply used as abstract sounds, a sort of musique concrète. But I don't know, I've never read any program notes on the piece or anything. I don't even know what that title substance is, exactly. Perhaps knowing that would help? ??? ;D

Well, I did try a Google search but it turned up nothing except Szymanski (only 12 results, one of which was your post in this forum). Even if it was a very obscure substance, I'm sure if it actually existed there would probably be a site somewhere that at least mentioned it once. I initially thought it had something to do with cars, which it probably doesn't. Other than that, I guessed he had just made up a long chemical name either to poke fun at humanity polluting the environment with stuff most people don't really understand and can't even pronounce, or simply for the sake of an interesting title. Considering what you've said about Szymanski, the latter is probably true. The "environmental" thing was just my initial impression when I put the title together with the cars driving past in the piece, and is probably wrong - but who really knows?

Quote from: Symphonien on November 15, 2008, 01:41:16 PM
Regarding your comments about the first movement, it is definitely likeable but I do think you are probably going way too far to suggest it could ever compete with John Adams for popularity! ;D

You think so? :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'(

Oops! Can't let the thread drop to 2nd page, can we? I mean, this is the most private place we two can get on this board... ;D

Thoughts for today: it is almost terrifying to think of the task 20th and 21st century composers face of inventing their own idioms, almost from scratch. In view of that, it is fascinating to note that while Szymanski's idiom may at first seem to be some sort of compilation made up of earlier styles, it is in fact absolutely original. Because those earlier styles are taken completely out of context, treated like mere objects.

I have thought up a simile that, IMO, describes his composing method very well: it is as if someone chopped up a Gothic castle or Baroque palace into pieces, and used those pieces to build something completely new and modern. The pieces of the castle/palace can be seen in the walls of this new structure but they have been drained of their original sense: they now serve a different, contemporary sensitivity, they have been integrated into a new framework. You can easily recognize them: a piece of an archway there, the tip of a column here, but they do not make their old "sense" anymore. They are just building blocks serving a different purpose. But an important part of the aesthetic effect comes from this feeling of recognition.

In other words, Szymanski's music does not "pick up" where older music left off or anything of that sort. His stance seems a paradox: on the one hand, he completely disavows and deconstructs those glorious but outdated systems of aesthetic norms (in a sense), on the other, by using them as "objects", by "including" them in his music, he acknowledges them (in a sense).

Wow! And I thought I had come up with a great and simple way of explaining what his music is about (or at least how I understand it). ::)

Quote from: Maciek on November 25, 2008, 08:21:04 AM
Oops! Can't let the thread drop to 2nd page, can we? I mean, this is the most private place we two can get on this board... ;D

Thoughts for today: it is almost terrifying to think of the task 20th and 21st century composers face of inventing their own idioms, almost from scratch. In view of that, it is fascinating to note that while Szymanski's idiom may at first seem to be some sort of compilation made up of earlier styles, it is in fact absolutely original. Because those earlier styles are taken completely out of context, treated like mere objects.

I have thought up a simile that, IMO, describes his composing method very well: it is as if someone chopped up a Gothic castle or Baroque palace into pieces, and used those pieces to build something completely new and modern. The pieces of the cathedral/palace can be seen in the walls of this new structure but they have been drained of their original sense: they now serve a different, contemporary sensitivity, they have been integrated into a new framework. You can easily recognize them: a piece of an archway there, the butt of a column here, but they do not make their old "sense" anymore. They are just building blocks serving a different purpose. But an important part of the aesthetic effect comes from this feeling of recognition.

In other words, Szymanski's music does not "pick up" where older music left off or anything of that sort. His stance seems a paradox: on the one hand, he completely disavows and deconstructs those glorious but outdated systems of aesthetic norms (in a sense), on the other, by using them as "objects", by "including" them in his music, he acknowledges them (in a sense).

Wow! And I thought I had come up with a great and simple way of explaining what his music is about (or at least how I understand it). ::)

No need to doubt yourself in that last sentence - I think it's a wonderful comparison! :D Couldn't have said it better myself.

As for the previous paragraph, it is a paradox indeed and Szymanski has said so himself: blather and banality, as he puts it. Although his solution (decontextualisation of past musical elements) to avoid this dilemma seems obvious, I do not know of many other composers that have applied this method in such an effective, coherent and personal way as Szymanski has. The only other composer I can think of that has achieved similar things in music is Alfred Schnittke. I don't believe that the full potential of this particular approach of "polystylism" has really been explored enough, and that is probably why I appreciate both of these composers so much for making such valuable contributions. It definitely seems to be a very difficult thing to successfully pull off in music. Take Schnittke's 1st Symphony for example: while it is a fun piece, the polystylism comes across to me as a rather incoherent collage of ideas. It took him a while to master this new style, but when he did, he produced some real masterpieces. That's not to say that I think Szymanski is trying to do the same thing as Schnittke, but rather that these are two composers that I think have managed to create uniquely personal styles through their own decontextualisation of familiar elements.

That being said, I haven't listened to any new Szymanski music yet since my last posting on chloro...phaenon ;D, but this thread of course is always an inspiration. ;)

Anything new? I'm in the mood for some of his string quartet pieces.

Incidentally, I notice that Polish Radio Katowice has issued a new recording of the Two Pieces, played by the Akademos Quartet (http://www.akademos.art.pl/english/quartet/index.html). Don't really know who they are but found on the internet that they gave two concerts at Carnegie Hall in 2007 (playing Beethoven quartets - which they've also recorded for Acte Préalable). So I guess I need to get this CD (despite the off-putting cover). ;D

(http://www.radio.katowice.pl/files/strony/wydawnictwa/prk084.jpg)

Apparently managed to miss the composer's birthday on the 28th!

The PolMIC site featured two older photos in their "photo of the day" section:

1985

1988

Thanks for those. Very good.

I also like the picture on his wikipedia page, where he appears to be smoking a pipe:

(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e7/Pawel_Szymanski.jpg)

I notice a distinct similarity to Gandalf:

(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/7/72/Vlcsnap-5984376.png)

(who also smokes a pipe) ;D

Recently I've been rather obsessed with the Drei Lieder nach Trakl (chamber orchestra version) so I thought I may as well bump up the good old thread again 8). I love the delicate, sometimes sparse sonorities of the first - almost Webernian in nature yet with that eerily familiar recurring melody, the second which kind of plays around with a series of diatonic thirds stacked on top of each other and the utterly gorgeous, spellbinding third. I swear, the first thirty seconds or so of that third song has got to be one of the most beautiful openings I know in all of music (of course the entire piece is beautiful all the way through too!).

An appropriate choice of ensemble with the piano, harp, strings and tuned percussion but also an accordion? Who would have thought? :D Surprisingly, Szymanski somehow manages to make the accordion fit in perfectly, genius that he is! Now that I think of it, I don't really know any other works which have an accordion in them...

I also know nothing about Georg Trakl. You wouldn't happen to know what poems the songs come from and what they are about, would you? I would be interested to find an English translation just to know Szymanski's inspiration behind his songs.

---

Oh and by the way, I was browsing the topic on the  old forum (http://www.good-music-guide.com/forum/index.php/topic,12792.0.html) and I managed to find the sheet music for his Gigue for solo cello. You also uploaded a couple of performances of it, but being more than 2 years ago the rapidshare links have of course expired now! Do you still have any of these (recorded at that 2007 cello competition I believe) that you would be able to upload again?

Quote from: Symphonien on April 24, 2009, 11:59:37 PM
Recently I've been rather obsessed with the Drei Lieder nach Trakl (chamber orchestra version) so I thought I may as well bump up the good old thread again 8). I love the delicate, sometimes sparse sonorities of the first - almost Webernian in nature yet with that eerily familiar recurring melody, the second which kind of plays around with a series of diatonic thirds stacked on top of each other and the utterly gorgeous, spellbinding third. I swear, the first thirty seconds or so of that third song has got to be one of the most beautiful openings I know in all of music (of course the entire piece is beautiful all the way through too!).

An appropriate choice of ensemble with the piano, harp, strings and tuned percussion but also an accordion? Who would have thought? :D Surprisingly, Szymanski somehow manages to make the accordion fit in perfectly, genius that he is! Now that I think of it, I don't really know any other works which have an accordion in them...

I also know nothing about Georg Trakl. You wouldn't happen to know what poems the songs come from and what they are about, would you? I would be interested to find an English translation just to know Szymanski's inspiration behind his songs.

---

Oh and by the way, I was browsing the topic on the  old forum (http://www.good-music-guide.com/forum/index.php/topic,12792.0.html) and I managed to find the sheet music for his Gigue for solo cello. You also uploaded a couple of performances of it, but being more than 2 years ago the rapidshare links have of course expired now! Do you still have any of these (recorded at that 2007 cello competition I believe) that you would be able to upload again?

Ah, what a pleasant surprise to see both you around and the thread bumped to the top of the section (where it belongs and should perpetually stay ;D).

I'm glad to hear you're enjoying the Trakl songs so much! They seem to be rather popular with singers over here - I think I've heard at least three different performances on the radio. Though I've also heard at least one singer complain that Szymanski's vocal writing is very difficult for the performers... >:D

Trakl was an Austrian turn-of-the-century poet. He's actually fairly popular here (in a slightly snobbish way). Perhaps because he was vaguely connected with Poland (mainly due to the fact that during Trakl's life a large part of Poland was an Austrian "colony", so to speak). I don't really know more about him than what you can read in this (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georg_Trakl) Wikipedia article. The Wittgenstein connections are interesting.

I'll try to find those Gigue recordings BUT: 1) bear in mind that (IIRC) the sound quality is absolutely abominable!, 2) it will take a while, since I don't think I have them on my computer any longer (I'll need to locate the disc, and my labelling scheme is neither verbose nor precise ;D).

Incidentally, I wonder how much time it will take before this fad really catches on. I mean, we're up to page 3 and except for us two, barely anyone ever says anything!

(Maybe it's because we're so smart - it may intimidate some people. Heck, I know it's intimidating me! I read some of the stuff I've written here and I say to myself: 'Oh my gosh! I am so smart, I really can't continue posting in this thread, sooner or later I'll say something stupid and then I'll have to laugh at myself because I'm so very smart and very smart people always laugh at stupid people. So I'd better just shut up and leave this thread alone.')

Anyway, what was I going to say. Oh, I know. I did a cursory search and found two more Trakl song cycles: Three songs for voice and string trio by the Teresin composer Viktor Ullmann and a single Trakl setting for contralto, harp and horn by Dorota Dywańska. He seems to inspire unorthodox instrumentation. ;D

[I apologize humbly for calling Szymanski fandom a fad!]

[[I admit that I am very, very tired and should probably go to sleep.]]

[[[Good night.]]]

Thank you very, very much for those texts + translations. I can definitely see how the songs fit now!

Oh and thank you for your efforts in finding the Gigue recording too. Believe it or not, I actually did manage to find the score on that website. They still have it uploaded  there (http://lutoslawski-cello.art.pl/en/progr.htm) thankfully!

Quote from: Symphonien on April 27, 2009, 12:13:32 AM
Oh and thank you for your efforts in finding the Gigue recording too. Believe it or not, I actually did manage to find the score on that website. They still have it uploaded  there (http://lutoslawski-cello.art.pl/en/progr.htm) thankfully!

You're right! I tried their site yesterday but didn't realize I had to roll over the text at the very top of the page for the menu to appear. Thanks for digging up that page. There seems to be a recording of the Gigue available there too (the little speaker to the left of the title of the piece) but there's no information on who plays it...???

I hope Guido is reading this thread. There are scores of two other solo cello pieces available there as well! 8) And I see a recording of the Szalonek Sonata - he's a composer I like very much. :D

Oh, and a Knapik piece - another favorite composer! :D :D

And Penderecki's Divertimento!

Thanks again! :)

Quote from: Maciek on April 27, 2009, 02:36:51 AM
There seems to be a recording of the Gigue available there too (the little speaker to the left of the title of the piece) but there's no information on who plays it...???

:o

I can't believe I missed that! ::) Oh well thank you for pointing it out. You needn't bother wasting your time digging up those old recordings if you don't want. All I really wanted was any recording to listen to while following the score which I plan to do shortly. :)

Page eight? PAGE EIGHT?! How on earth could we let this happen! The BEST thread on the board sank to page EIGHT of the Composer Discussion! :o :o :o :o

BTW, the thread has fascinating statistics. Top posters:
Maciek 41 posts (42 with this one)
Symphonien 20
Xantus' Murrelet 1
Bonehelm 1

;D

Speaking of vocal Szymanski, my favorite is still Four Liturgical Pieces for soprano and orchestra, one of the first Szymanski pieces I ever heard - I listened to it again last week and it is pure genius. I wish I could share it with you. The good recording I have is on cassette. Have got to get hold of a better sounding copy on another medium...

Over to you, Bryce.

(Have you seen State of Weightlessness yet?)

Quote from: Maciek on June 12, 2009, 04:19:06 AM
Page eight? PAGE EIGHT?! How on earth could we let this happen! The BEST thread on the board sank to page EIGHT of the Composer Discussion! :o :o :o :o

BTW, the thread has fascinating statistics. Top posters:
Maciek 41 posts (42 with this one)
Symphonien 20
Xantus' Murrelet 1
Bonehelm 1

You can tell right away who the fanboys are, can't you? ;D

Hrmph. Believe I have not yet heard a note of Szymanski .

Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on June 14, 2009, 07:49:12 AM
Hrmph. Believe I have not yet heard a note of Szymanski .

Haha, nice try, Karl. ;D

Perhaps you would like I get Maciek to set you Szymanski's complete works on zip file?

And where did you get that idea?? ???

Judging by the year of his birth, he's still writing, so his complete works does not yet exist in final form. Long may he write!

A little quote from an amusing old Vibraphone Quartet review (http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,13067.msg321163.html#msg321163)...

Quote from: Maciek on June 16, 2009, 11:33:47 AM
A little quote from an amusing old Vibraphone Quartet review (http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,13067.msg321163.html#msg321163)...

Love it!  (Although with a title like that, how could one not be intrigued?)

Thanks, very funny...

--Bruce

Page six? PAGE SIX? I can't believe it!






BTW, taking advantage of a summer sale I've recently finally got hold of Szymanski's "Zaratustra" theatre music (heretofore had only heard selections from it). I'll post my thoughts soonish.

...wow, I need my glasses fixed. I thought this was the Szymanowski thread!

See, that's what happens if you only listen to classical era string quartets and nothing else...

I actually was thinking that my brain was missing that post-war kick, kind of like a vegetarian in need of some red meat! This is really strange for me... I would not be listening to endless Haydn! I feel like I'm in school, haha ::). But of course now I have to finish my little "project" before i can rejoin life..oy!!!

I've been saving that Xenakis Complete SQs as a "Break Open in Case of Emergency." Haha!!!

Haha, your post really cheered me up! Thanks.

Quote from: Maciek on July 10, 2009, 05:24:29 AM
BTW, taking advantage of a summer sale I've recently finally got hold of Szymanski's "Zaratustra" theatre music (heretofore had only heard selections from it). I'll post my thoughts soonish.

Zaratustra

Sadly, what I have to report is a first major disappointment in my Pawel Szymanski experience. While I wouldn't call the Zaratustra disc a complete waste of money (and anyway, it did cost very little), it is redeemed by only a single track. That single track is the only part of the disc I return to. The rest are sub-Enoish ambient music. The track that makes it worthwhile is a serene, romantic, sad and slightly soundtrackish (but then, this is theatre music) movement called The Streets of Babylon. To my ears, the rest is just monotonous and, frankly, quite irritating. And far, far too much generic percussion. (Even if it did receive some sort of accolade for best theatre music of 2005.) Sad.

Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on June 14, 2009, 07:49:12 AM
Hrmph. Believe I have not yet heard a note of Szymanski .

Have you fixed this yet Karl?(http://www.newlegendproductions.com/community/images/smilies/fishslap.gif)

This is pretty good Karl--

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51iCcBvlePL._SS500_.jpg) (http://www.amazon.com/Karol-Szymanowski-Concertos-Nocturne-Tarantella/dp/B0000014ES)

It is (don't have that specific recording though). But it's not Szymanski. It's Szymanowski! ;D

PS Love that smiley!

Oh shuckins!  I didn't see that! :o  OOps!  Well I haven't heard Szymanski either.  D'oh, my apologies I did that thing where I slipped in the ow in my mind without realizing it.

Quote from: Maciek on August 05, 2009, 04:02:02 AM
PS Love that smiley!

Thanks a lot, Maciek!  ::) ;D  8)

 :-* :-* ;D

Hmm . ..  I could go for some herring . . . .

And even more of Pawel Szymanski's music available on-line! (http://musicalwren.wordpress.com/2009/08/20/pawel-szymanski-x-4-on-nina/) :o :D :D :D

I guess a 3 minute snippet is nothing to write home about - but if anyone is interested in sampling Szymanski's 5 pieces for string quartet, then piece no. 3 is included in this (http://www.factmagazine.co.uk/index.php?Itemid=28&id=1310&option=com_content&task=view) (free) downloadable compilation (scroll down a bit for playlist and link).

I've posted a Pawel Szymanski discography here (http://musicalwren.wordpress.com/2009/09/04/pawel-szymanski-a-checklist-of-recordings/). If you feel like taking a look and notice any mistakes, or anything I've left out, or have any suggestions - please let me know through the comments. Thank you. :)

Bryce, your favorite Trakl song (the last one) is actually very similar to The Streets of Babylon (from Zaratustra) - though the song is much, much shorter (the incidental music is sort of on auto-repeat, but very nice anyway). You should try Streets one day.

Well, I haven't been around this forum in quite some time but it's sure nice to see the Szymanski thread right up the top where it belongs, even if there still seems to be only one user predominantly responsible... but good work I say!

Thanks for linking to all those videos; they were enough to entice me to post. ;D Good to see the Drei Lieder in video form of course, but I especially enjoyed the Partita No. 3 which I hadn't heard for a while. I love the way the two extremes compete with each other before they seem to reach a sort of compromise: that awesome, aimlessly floating, distorted Baroque music that Szymanski does so well. It really does seem as if time has stopped.

I have also managed to hear Zaratustra as well, and I would have to say my initial impression is pretty much the same as yours i.e. the only track there that I enjoyed was "Streets of Babylon". Otherwise repeated drum beat with very thin musical substance above in 1 & 3 and lame atmospheric percussion patterns in 2 & 4. The last piece didn't do much for me either. "Streets of Babylon" was quite good however - I'd say it's perhaps more similar to the second of the Two Illusory Constructions though than the last Trakl song (probably those trills).

Wow! Someone other than myself posting on this thread? Must be a hallucination...
















Hi there, Bryce! Those drums are terrible, aren't they? :(

On a tangent: I can't believe there's no recording available of Four Liturgical Pieces. The Warsaw Autumn cassette that I have has a wonderful rendition and I don't understand why the Polish Composers' Union won't release a widely available CD of stuff like that from their vault (a few years ago they released a CD box of Warsaw Autumn recordings which wasn't for sale - so what's the use, I ask?)...

Anyway, I'm trying to figure out if Szymanski has written a complete mass piecemeal or not, but I don't think so. Let's see, there's: Kyrie (77) and Gloria (79). I don't remember details of the 4 Liturgical Pieces, but I'm pretty sure it contains at least an Agnus Dei. So still a Credo, Sanctus, and Benedictus needed (or maybe some of those are included in the liturgical pieces too, I need to check). But at least we have some psalm settings: Miserere (93) and Viderunt omnes fines terrae (98) - that last one could be included in a Christmas Mass... And if we wanted a Requiem mass, there's the Lux aeterna (84) and In Paradisum (95).

Oh, well, it would have been a terrible mass anyway, as each of these pieces is as autonomous as can be and very different in character, and I cringe at the very thought of treating them as a continuous flow of music.

[EDIT: After listening to the Four Pieces today, in conditions very far from ideal, I've managed to ascertain that the first piece is Christe eleison, there definitely is an Agnus Dei in there, and also what appears to be a Credo snippet, perhaps in two movements (well, I don't think it's the whole Credo - but I could only make out the words "Maria Virgine" and later, in what appears to be a different movement, "resurrexit"). The whole thing is sumptuously beautiful. It also seems insanely difficult to sing (which would explain its rarity) and definitely my favorite Szymanski at the moment.]

First impressions from today's premiere. (http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,9.msg356608.html#msg356608)

I know this is coming a little late but I have a message to all New Yorkers. The American premiere of 5 pcs for sq is coming up tomorrow:


1st October, 7:30 PM
venue: Symphony Space
performer: Del Sol Quartet from San Francisco (their NY debut)
repertoire: Pawel Szymanski's Five Pieces for SQ, Pawel Mykietyn's SQ no. 2, Tania León's Esencia and Gabriela Ortiz's SQ no. 1

An hour before the concert Pawel Mykietyn and Tania León are going to talk about their music.

(I only heard about this today.)

[EDIT: Could this really be the American premiere of 5 pcs? Didn't the Brodskys ever take the piece abroad with them? Did they even perform it live, ever??]

Torontonians can get to hear the Concerto a 4 on January 10 at the Glenn Gould Studio.

Also on the program are Pawel Mykietyn's 3 for 13, Agata Zubel's Cascando, Zygmunt Krauze's Piano Quintet and Polychromie and M. A. D. by Wojtek Blazejczyk.

Very nice program! Don't think I know the Zubel and Blazejczyk pieces but Krauze's Quintet is, IMHO, one of his best compositions - it's both quintessential Krauze (well, from a certain period) and really beautiful music. Mykietyn's 3 for 13 is one of my favorite pieces from his "polystylistic" period - great fun. And Concerto a 4 is striking Szymanski, of the more "pensive" kind, with something of a surprise ending. Really, great programming there - looks like a concert well worth hearing.

Speaking of recordings. A couple of months ago I was holding one of the two new Agata Zubel discs in my hands (CD Accord) and somehow (?) I managed not to notice that it contained a recording of Drei Lieder nach Trakl! (Otherwise I would have bought it right away. Oh, well, I'll search it out, I guess.)

(Hm, actually, I think an Agata Zubel thread is in order...)

Had to post this, from a review on musicweb (by William Hedley) of the Zubel disc just mentioned:

Quote from: http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2010/Jan10/poems_zubel_ACD1492.htmThe recital ends with a real surprise, and though it may seem absurd to say so, the disc is worth buying for Pawel Szymanski's songs alone.

Nice to see Szymanski get some airplay  :P

Have you heard his 2 pieces for string quartet, as well as the 5 pieces by the Silesian Quartet?

I only have the 1992 Brodsky Quartet premiere version of the 5 pieces. 

His micro-language in music is just phenomenal.  Partita III is just astounding for its whacky combo of sounds and seamless integration of both ancient (harpsichord) and modern orchestra. 

Has anyone heard the new piece premiered in September? For 8 harps and piano. A piu corde. Commissioned by Paweł Potoroczyn, director of the Adam Mickiewicz Institute. Apparently, Potoroczyn had a dream where he was listening to a new Szymanski piano concerto, with a harp ensemble in place of a regular orchestra. So he commissioned the dreamt up piece.

Anyway, somehow I managed to miss the radio broadcast of its premiere and was wondering if anyone had heard the piece...

1.

Quote from: CaramelJones on August 09, 2010, 03:31:10 PM
Nice to see Szymanski get some airplay  :P

Have you heard his 2 pieces for string quartet, as well as the 5 pieces by the Silesian Quartet?

I only have the 1992 Brodsky Quartet premiere version of the 5 pieces. 

His micro-language in music is just phenomenal.  Partita III is just astounding for its whacky combo of sounds and seamless integration of both ancient (harpsichord) and modern orchestra. 

A reply almost four years later is probably not what you were counting on, but yes, I have heard the 2 pieces and 5 pieces. I think I've posted some thoughts on them earlier in the thread (and I think Symphonien has too).

2.
Where is Symphonien? :(

3.
I think I've never posted links to the pieces available from NInA. I'm posting three of them below.

There's K - a piece completed in 1972 when the composer couldn't have been older than 18:
Paweł Szymański K. for symphony orchestra (http://ninateka.pl/film/pawel-szymanski-k-na-orkiestre-symfoniczna)

And there are the Trakl settings that Symphonien commented on (http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,281.msg301912/topicseen.html#msg301912) (rather favorably) earlier in the thread:
Paweł Szymański Three Trakl songs for soprano and chamber orchestra (http://ninateka.pl/film/pawel-szymanski-trzy-piesni-do-slow-trakla)

And there's the Lux aeterna setting (which I think I'll make part of my Holy Saturday listening - unless I decide to spend the day without private music listening):
Paweł Szymański Lux aeterna for voices and instruments (http://ninateka.pl/film/pawel-szymanski-lux-aeterna)

A review of the new Hyperion release, where you can actually listen to the recording (below the text):

http://www.wqxr.org/#!/story/royal-string-quartet-brings-verve-and-polish-szymanski-and-mykietyn/ (http://www.wqxr.org/#!/story/royal-string-quartet-brings-verve-and-polish-szymanski-and-mykietyn/)

A little while ago I discovered that a video of last year's premiere of Through the looking glass... IV is available on Youtube. I guess that's good enough a reason to pay good old GMG a visit.

Here's a link:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0-lpdZejaf4#t=24m40s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0-lpdZejaf4#t=24m40s)

(I thought Szymanski had abandoned this type of idiom, so the piece was a bit of a surprise.)

I've also discovered that on Spotify he is listed as "Pawet Szymanski" (that's a T at the end of his first name).

I just learnt that Szymanski wrote an opera in 2013 called "Qudsja Zaher". Alex Ross reviewed it and a there is a financial times article on it as well.

Has anyone here listened to it/saw it live?
Afaik no recording exists.