Thought this might be an interesting poll, since some of the major French composers - Debussy, Fauré, Ravel - never seriously attempted a symphony. Debussy wrote a rather insubstantial one at age 18 that he never orchestrated, and Fauré destroyed his and (apparently) reused the material from it in other works. So, I'm looking for 6 of your favorite French symphonies besides the ever-popular Berlioz Fantastique and Saint-Saëns Organ, and preferably not more than one or two per composer. I know some will disagree with me about this, but for the intents and purposes of this poll, let's consider Franck to be Belgian and Honegger to be Swiss. Anyway, here's my current list:
Chausson B flat major
Dutilleux 1
Ferroud A major
Magnard 4 (no. 3 is great as well)
Paray 1
Roussel 3 (no. 1 is great as well)
I'm ashamed to say I still haven't listened to Dukas' Symphony (!) or most of the non-Organ symphonies of Saint-Saëns. I'm also completely unfamiliar with the symphonies of Ropartz, Sauguet, and Tournemire, which I know some here think highly of. I hope to rectify all of that soon! Anyway, looking forward to your lists! :)
Actually an interesting question since after the period of Méhul, Gossec, Onslow et al (none of whom I know well enough to nominate) the French basically stopped writing symphonies altogether except for a handful of composers.... I guess it was seen as irreparably Germanised, and therefore bad??
Berlioz Roméo et Juliette
Bizet C major
Bizet Roma
Poulenc Sinfonietta
Milhaud No.1
Dutilleux Le double
Quote from: amw on August 18, 2018, 09:49:11 AM
Actually an interesting question since after the period of Méhul, Gossec, Onslow et al (none of whom I know well enough to nominate) the French basically stopped writing symphonies altogether except for a handful of composers.... I guess it was seen as irreparably Germanised, and therefore bad??
Berlioz Roméo et Juliette
Bizet C major
Bizet Roma
Poulenc Sinfonietta
Milhaud No.1
Dutilleux Le double
I've heard good things about the symphonies of Méhul and Onslow, so I'll have to check them out. Yeah, there certainly weren't too many French composers writing symphonies in the mid-19th century. Berlioz, Saint-Saëns, Gounod, Farrenc, and Gouvy are some of the only names who spring to mind. The French symphony experienced something of a revival at the beginning of the 20th century with Magnard and Roussel producing their great cycles of four symphonies each (there's also Tournemire, whose 8 symphonies I'm unfamiliar with). Later on in the 20th century, composers like Henri Sauguet (4 symphonies), Jean Rivier (8 symphonies), and Georges Migot (13 symphonies!) contributed to the genre, but are very little-known today, and recordings of their symphonies (particularly the latter two) are very difficult to find. Of course, we shouldn't forget about Messiaen's epic and untraditionally-symphonic
Turangalîla-Symphonie, his only work in the genre.
Great list, BTW. I know the Bizet C major (I especially like the haunting slow movement) and Milhaud no. 1 but not the others (Berlioz's R&J is one of the those works that I've inexplicably never gotten around to listening to).
Damase
Sauguet 'Expiatoire'
Magnard 'Funebre' (correction I meant Symphony 4)
Tournemire No.3 'Moscow'
Chausson
Roussel No.4
Quote from: vandermolen on August 18, 2018, 11:00:44 AM
Damase
Sauguet 'Expiatoire'
Magnard 'Funebre'
Tournemire No.3 'Moscow'
Chausson
Roussel No.4
Great list, Jeffrey! You've reminded me that I need to listen to the Damase - I've enjoyed everything I've heard by him so far. By Magnard's "Funebre" do you mean his "Chant Funebre"? Which, of course, isn't a symphony ;)
Ropartz 2
Vierne
Messiaen Turangalîla
d'Indy Symphonie sur un chant montagnard française
Dukas
Lazzari Schmitt 2
Quote from: SymphonicAddict on August 18, 2018, 11:51:17 AM
Ropartz 2
Vierne
Messiaen Turangalîla
d'Indy Symphonie sur un chant montagnard française
Dukas
Lazzari
Great choices! I had forgotten about the d'Indy - I guess because of the piano soloist. In any case, it's a marvelous work - love that tune in the finale!
Quote from: kyjo on August 18, 2018, 11:44:49 AM
Great list, Jeffrey! You've reminded me that I need to listen to the Damase - I've enjoyed everything I've heard by him so far. By Magnard's "Funebre" do you mean his "Chant Funebre"? Which, of course, isn't a symphony ;)
Sorry Kyle, I meant Magnard Symphony 4. I'll amend my earlier post. The Damase is a very good Symphony, very approachable and upbeat but with considerable depth and a great redemptive ending which I find inspiriting. I'm sure that you'd enjoy it.
More votes for:
Chausson
Mehul (any of the four: a shame that only one recording of #3 and #4 is available (in the NIMBUS set), at least according to Amazon)
Vierne
I believe no one has yet mentioned the two symphonies of:
Guilmant e.g.
[asin]B00003XB23[/asin]
And check out the Widor symphony on that CD!
Not to be forgotten...
Theodore Dubois
https://www.youtube.com/v/VxnxGXmFShY
I'm gonna change one of my choices. The Lazzari is out. The F. Schmitt No. 2 replaces it.
Thanks for all great suggestions! Let's give it a try:
Debussy 'Sea' ;)
Tournemire Six
Roussel Four
Sauguet Three, 'I.N.R.'
Daniel-Lesur One, 'De Danses'
Dutilleux Two, 'Double'
I'd just like to put in a good word for Ropartz 2nd. To me it always sounds kind of proto British pastoral somehow. Maybe the Breton connection.
Messiaen Turangalila
Dupré Symphony for Organ and Orchestra
Dutilleux 1
d'Indy 2
Roussel 3
Berlioz Grand symphonie funèbre et triomphale
Quote from: Draško on August 19, 2018, 03:18:13 AM
I'd just like to put in a good word for Ropartz 2nd. To me it always sounds kind of proto British pastoral somehow. Maybe the Breton connection.
I tend to think the same thing.
Roussel 3
Berlioz Romeo
Farrenc 1
Bizet in C
...now it gets harder...
Roussel 1
...Haydn 82??
Quote from: amw on August 18, 2018, 09:49:11 AMI guess it was seen as irreparably Germanised, and therefore bad??
Yes, precisely! Can't imagine there was a rush of new French symphonies in the 1870s...
Also omitting the Franck:
Roussel 3
Magnard 3
Chausson
Dutilleux 1 & 2
Dukas
Runners up:
Lalo G minor (this comes in for brickbats for being repetitive and a bit cheesy, but I love it).
Bizet C Major
Runner up symphonists
Milhaud
Maurice Emmanuel
Farrenc
Onslow
Mehul
Still exploring their output:
Sauget
Landowski
d'Indy
Gossec
Quote from: Cato on August 18, 2018, 03:01:20 PM
Mehul (any of the four: a shame that only one recording of #3 and #4 is available (in the NIMBUS set), at least according to Amazon)
Amazon's search engine has been getting worse and worse. I found this with a google search:
https://www.gramophone.co.uk/review/m%C3%A9hul-symphonies-nos-3-5
Not that I'm biting at that price.
Concerning
Mehul symphonies:
Quote from: Daverz on August 19, 2018, 02:24:44 PM
Amazon's search engine has been getting worse and worse. I found this with a google search:
https://www.gramophone.co.uk/review/m%C3%A9hul-symphonies-nos-3-5
Not that I'm biting at that price.
Many thanks for the information!
Quote from: Daverz on August 19, 2018, 02:14:16 PM
Lalo G minor (this comes in for brickbats for being repetitive and a bit cheesy, but I love it).
+1
Sarge
There really aren't that many French symphonists that I enjoy, so I wish I could contribute, but I can't. I do rather like Roussel's 3rd and Saint-Saëns' 3rd. Dutilleux's two symphonies are also great fun. I guess I enjoy more French symphonies than I initially realized. :D
Quote from: Daverz on August 19, 2018, 02:14:16 PM
Landowski
I keep forgetting about him (probably due to his most un-French sounding name). His 5 symphonies seem like they should be interesting!
Just listened to Damase's Symphonie at Jeffrey's recommendation. My goodness, words cannot describe how wondrously uplifting and glorious this piece is (the ominous beginning is a bit of a "red herring")! Wow! This goes straight to the top of my list. Huge hat tip to Jeffrey for recommending this one! :) :)
Quote from: kyjo on August 19, 2018, 07:07:30 PM
Just listened to Damase's Symphonie at Jeffrey's recommendation. My goodness, words cannot describe how wondrously uplifting and glorious this piece is (the ominous beginning is a bit of a "red herring")! Wow! This goes straight to the top of my list. Huge hat tip to Jeffrey for recommending this one! :) :)
So pleased you enjoyed it Kyle!
:)
Boulez Pli Selon Pli
Debussy Images
Dutilleux Metaboles
Grisey Les Espaces Acoustiques
Messiaen Chronochromie
Murail Gondwana
Quote from: kyjo on August 18, 2018, 09:30:57 AM
I'm ashamed to say I still haven't listened to Dukas' Symphony
You're in for a treat.
Quote from: vandermolen on August 21, 2018, 12:23:53 PM
So pleased you enjoyed it Kyle!
:)
I cannot stress enough how much I enjoyed it, Jeffrey! The latter half of the first movement, in particular, is one of the most breathtakingly gorgeous and inspiriting passages of music I've heard. It rather put me in mind of Honegger's more lyrical moments (opening of the Cello Concerto, ending of the 3rd Symphony) and the ending of Bax's 3rd Symphony, though even more glorious than either of those. It's now my second favorite French symphony, right behind the Saint-Saens
Organ. :)
Quote from: kyjo on August 21, 2018, 04:00:47 PM
I cannot stress enough how much I enjoyed it, Jeffrey! The latter half of the first movement, in particular, is one of the most breathtakingly gorgeous and inspiriting passages of music I've heard. It rather put me in mind of Honegger's more lyrical moments (opening of the Cello Concerto, ending of the 3rd Symphony) and the ending of Bax's 3rd Symphony, though even more glorious than either of those. It's now my second favorite French symphony, right behind the Saint-Saens Organ. :)
I think that the thing about Damase's fine 'Symphonie' Kyle is that, at one level, it is a very upbeat and optimistic work, (you rightly describe it as 'inspiriting') but it is also not without depth. It has a kind of redemptive 'triumph against the odds' ending which invariably appeals to me. In fact I play the whole CD with much pleasure. Damase sounds like an endearing character (someone who knew him contributed to the Damase thread here) and I think that comes across in his music. A pity he didn't write another 'Symphonie' but we must be grateful for what we have. As I said, I'm delighted that you think highly of the work. I often listen to it and it is one of those works, in my opinion, which has the power to lift one's mood - definitely inspiriting. In that sense, it reminds me a little of Honegger's 4th Symphony 'Delights of Basel' which I enjoy for similar reasons, with its charming glockenspiel section in the opening movement. :)
Quote from: vandermolen on August 21, 2018, 11:15:05 PM
I think that the thing about Damase's fine 'Symphonie' Kyle is that, at one level, it is a very upbeat and optimistic work, (you rightly describe it as 'inspiriting') but it is also not without depth. It has a kind of redemptive 'triumph against the odds' ending which invariably appeals to me. In fact I play the whole CD with much pleasure. Damase sounds like an endearing character (someone who knew him contributed to the Damase thread here) and I think that comes across in his music. A pity he didn't write another 'Symphonie' but we must be grateful for what we have. As I said, I'm delighted that you think highly of the work. I often listen to it and it is one of those works, in my opinion, which has the power to lift one's mood - definitely inspiriting. In that sense, it reminds me a little of Honegger's 4th Symphony 'Delights of Basel' which I enjoy for similar reasons, with its charming glockenspiel section in the opening movement. :)
Very much agree with all of this!