GMG Classical Music Forum

The Back Room => The Diner => Topic started by: Saul on August 22, 2007, 05:54:29 PM

Title: Sad day for music
Post by: Saul on August 22, 2007, 05:54:29 PM
Over 50.000.000 views for avril's stupid video "girlfriend".
Most watched on youtube....
What pulls people to listen to this junk?
Title: Re: Sad day for music
Post by: Josquin des Prez on August 22, 2007, 06:18:29 PM
Quote from: Saul on August 22, 2007, 05:54:29 PM
Over 50.000.000 views for avril's stupid video "girlfriend".
Most watched on youtube....
What pulls people to listen to this junk?

Jews plotting to destroy western civilization are the cause behind the dumping down of our culture and arts.  :P

But seriously. This isn't anything new. Taste in art and general entertainment has gone downhill since the 60s. Blame it on the communists (dang i did it again).
Title: Re: Sad day for music
Post by: Heather Harrison on August 22, 2007, 07:25:33 PM
It's hard to say what causes it.  I wonder if it has to do with decreasing attention spans and the generally busy pace of life; many people don't want to go to the bother to listen to music that they might have to put some effort into.  They just want something simple and undemanding.  This isn't really all that new; some of the big hits of the late 1950's/early 1960's were quite simple and not very musically interesting (although now that they are dated and out of fashion, I find that they do have a certain level of quaint charm).

I have considered attempting to survey modern popular music in an attempt to understand the culture, but from what little I have heard it will be such an unpleasant task that I wonder if it's worth it, and I haven't so far been able to bring myself to dig in to this task.

I am very interested in popular music from the 1960's and earlier.  I have noticed that it often follows a cyclical pattern; one style gets old, tired, and worn out and then something new and exciting comes along to replace it.  In the 1890's, popular music based on light classical music (which had become rather tired by then) was upstaged by ragtime; by the late 1910's, ragtime had run its course and jazz (actually a variant of ragtime) burst onto the scene and supplanted not only ragtime, but also the remnants of the pre-ragtime style that remained.  1920's jazz evolved into swing which led to the easy listening pop vocals of the 1950's, which the young kids found so dull and boring that they went for the exciting new genre of rock & roll (actually a combination of boogie woogie, country, and rhythm & blues).  Nowadays, I think mainstream rock & roll and its derivatives have become dull and tired, and afflicted by the overapplication of modern technology to cover up for poor musicianship.  It is time for something entirely new and exciting to come along and sweep the current pop music scene aside.  (Rap came along and shook things up, but I just don't find it all that interesting, and it seems to be losing its edge anyway.)  However, I wonder if it can happen now like it did before.  Radio stations in the U.S. are run by large corporations that play it safe, and musical taste seems rather more fragmented than it used to be.  In the 1940's, practically everybody listened to or knew of artists such as Benny Goodman, Bing Crosby, Glenn Miller, and Frank Sinatra, and the styles of music they performed were everywhere and could not be avoided.  Nowadays, particular artists don't seem quite so ubiquitous (except when the gory details of their sordid lives make it into the news).

If something new does come in and take the pop music world by storm, I wonder if it will come from some non-western culture.  As I look around the world, I find interesting popular music from countries outside of Europe and North America.  Or perhaps someone will rearrange the influences that make up today's pop music and breathe some life back into it.  It's hard to say.

What I want from popular music is real talent and creativity - singers who can actually sing, people who can actually play musical instruments, and people who can compose a good song and write a good lyric.  I want to hear a real performance and not just recording technology.  The best salon music, ragtime, 1920's jazz, 1940's swing (and modern neo-swing), and 1950's through 1960's rock & roll have all these qualities.  But these qualities seem to be lacking in much of today's mainstream pop.

Heather
Title: Re: Sad day for music
Post by: head-case on August 22, 2007, 08:27:46 PM

Apparently you people imagine that in 1826 peasants throughout Europe were listening to Beethoven's Grosse Fugue and not some crude folk music that was less sophisticated than even Avril. 
Title: Re: Sad day for music
Post by: Renfield on August 23, 2007, 01:23:18 AM
Quote from: head-case on August 22, 2007, 08:27:46 PM
Apparently you people imagine that in 1826 peasants throughout Europe were listening to Beethoven's Grosse Fugue and not some crude folk music that was less sophisticated than even Avril. 

I don't think I should add anything, after this comment. ;D

And to be honest, why not Avril, or even Marilyn Manson for that matter? Do you expect people to stop themselves from watching and/or enjoying something because there is some apparently "higher" art they can pursue and/or benefit from, at that moment? There's a time for everything, really: I listen to classical (a lot, obviously), and I also listen to Evanescence on occasion. Decadent me! :)

In other words, I find the present topic rather moot, whether it's trying to prove that western civilisation is eroding away, or is simply intending to focus all our attention on how "garbage" other forms of entertainment than our preferred own actually are. I trust I made my point. ;)
Title: Re: Sad day for music
Post by: Saul on August 23, 2007, 04:55:05 AM
Quote from: head-case on August 22, 2007, 08:27:46 PM
Apparently you people imagine that in 1826 peasants throughout Europe were listening to Beethoven's Grosse Fugue and not some crude folk music that was less sophisticated than even Avril. 

I think that at least their "folk music" wasnt junk. They were simple melodies and tunes.
Title: Re: Sad day for music
Post by: dtwilbanks on August 23, 2007, 04:57:41 AM
It's still simple melodies. With BIG DRUMS!
Title: Re: Sad day for music
Post by: Saul on August 23, 2007, 05:03:07 AM
Quote from: dtwilbanks on August 23, 2007, 04:57:41 AM
It's still simple melodies. With BIG DRUMS!

This music is stupid, all avrils music is stupid. Who follows her music?
Just watch her concerts, you'll see.
Title: Re: Sad day for music
Post by: Haffner on August 23, 2007, 05:11:56 AM
I agree with Heather on those excellently written and thought out points.

Sometimes I wonder whether I love "complicated music" (my father's term) just because it is complicated.

I have alot of trouble taking most of today's Rock world seriously. The bands I loved as a very young man (1970's) could be seen as a novelty today. I have the feeling that most of the Rock and Rap that's around today will seem that way in time.
Title: Re: Sad day for music
Post by: greg on August 23, 2007, 05:12:19 AM
Quote from: Heather Harrison on August 22, 2007, 07:25:33 PM
If something new does come in and take the pop music world by storm, I wonder if it will come from some non-western culture.  As I look around the world, I find interesting popular music from countries outside of Europe and North America.  Or perhaps someone will rearrange the influences that make up today's pop music and breathe some life back into it.  It's hard to say.
always wondering about the future, just like me, lol

or is this the future of music?...
http://youtube.com/watch/v/36Xt-XeWnHM
Title: Re: Sad day for music
Post by: Saul on August 23, 2007, 05:15:09 AM
Quote from: Heather Harrison on August 22, 2007, 07:25:33 PM
It's hard to say what causes it.  I wonder if it has to do with decreasing attention spans and the generally busy pace of life; many people don't want to go to the bother to listen to music that they might have to put some effort into.  They just want something simple and undemanding.  This isn't really all that new; some of the big hits of the late 1950's/early 1960's were quite simple and not very musically interesting (although now that they are dated and out of fashion, I find that they do have a certain level of quaint charm).

I have considered attempting to survey modern popular music in an attempt to understand the culture, but from what little I have heard it will be such an unpleasant task that I wonder if it's worth it, and I haven't so far been able to bring myself to dig in to this task.

I am very interested in popular music from the 1960's and earlier.  I have noticed that it often follows a cyclical pattern; one style gets old, tired, and worn out and then something new and exciting comes along to replace it.  In the 1890's, popular music based on light classical music (which had become rather tired by then) was upstaged by ragtime; by the late 1910's, ragtime had run its course and jazz (actually a variant of ragtime) burst onto the scene and supplanted not only ragtime, but also the remnants of the pre-ragtime style that remained.  1920's jazz evolved into swing which led to the easy listening pop vocals of the 1950's, which the young kids found so dull and boring that they went for the exciting new genre of rock & roll (actually a combination of boogie woogie, country, and rhythm & blues).  Nowadays, I think mainstream rock & roll and its derivatives have become dull and tired, and afflicted by the overapplication of modern technology to cover up for poor musicianship.  It is time for something entirely new and exciting to come along and sweep the current pop music scene aside.  (Rap came along and shook things up, but I just don't find it all that interesting, and it seems to be losing its edge anyway.)  However, I wonder if it can happen now like it did before.  Radio stations in the U.S. are run by large corporations that play it safe, and musical taste seems rather more fragmented than it used to be.  In the 1940's, practically everybody listened to or knew of artists such as Benny Goodman, Bing Crosby, Glenn Miller, and Frank Sinatra, and the styles of music they performed were everywhere and could not be avoided.  Nowadays, particular artists don't seem quite so ubiquitous (except when the gory details of their sordid lives make it into the news).

If something new does come in and take the pop music world by storm, I wonder if it will come from some non-western culture.  As I look around the world, I find interesting popular music from countries outside of Europe and North America.  Or perhaps someone will rearrange the influences that make up today's pop music and breathe some life back into it.  It's hard to say.

What I want from popular music is real talent and creativity - singers who can actually sing, people who can actually play musical instruments, and people who can compose a good song and write a good lyric.  I want to hear a real performance and not just recording technology.  The best salon music, ragtime, 1920's jazz, 1940's swing (and modern neo-swing), and 1950's through 1960's rock & roll have all these qualities.  But these qualities seem to be lacking in much of today's mainstream pop.

Heather

Good points Heather...
Title: Re: Sad day for music
Post by: dtwilbanks on August 23, 2007, 05:23:15 AM
Quote from: Saul on August 23, 2007, 05:03:07 AM
Who follows her music?

Little kids?
Title: Re: Sad day for music
Post by: Sean on August 23, 2007, 05:26:44 AM
Art is in serious trouble- take the London Proms concerts, one of the world's longest music festivals, instead of exploring the rich resource of works we have there are now numerous jazz, musicals, film music, folk music, world pop music etc etc concerts: the whole idea of art has been lost. Most people just don't want it and the real Proms concerts become more and more self conscious and an embarrasment to the horde.
Title: Re: Sad day for music
Post by: beclemund on August 23, 2007, 05:49:37 AM
I think it is caused by the increased likelihood that 13 year old girls will have computer access this day and age.

Many are not looking for complexity in music and are happy to watch some forgettable stringy blond kid hop around and sing pointless songs that may resonate better in the lives of a pre-teen over something composed decades ago in dedication to some duke, count or other nobleman. I am sure none of us ever deigned to listen to pop music when we were in junior high. ;)
Title: Re: Sad day for music
Post by: greg on August 23, 2007, 05:54:14 AM
what i don't get is how people my age can't relate to the music i listen to when it's the exact same emotions that anyone else my age would understand.

either it's because it's a) never played on the radio; b) too long; c) not popular or d) all of the above.

ok, yeah, it's d
Title: Re: Sad day for music
Post by: karlhenning on August 23, 2007, 05:57:19 AM
Quote from: Saul on August 22, 2007, 05:54:29 PM
Over 50.000.000 views for avril's stupid video "girlfriend".

I don't get why this supposedly maps onto "a sad day for music."
Title: Re: Sad day for music
Post by: Hector on August 23, 2007, 05:57:29 AM
Quote from: Josquin des Prez on August 22, 2007, 06:18:29 PM
Jews plotting to destroy western civilization are the cause behind the dumping down of our culture and arts.  :P

But seriously. This isn't anything new. Taste in art and general entertainment has gone downhill since the 60s. Blame it on the communists (dang i did it again).

OK, OK, you're a Nazi, no need to labour the point, we know! $:)

Why bother with shit like Youtube? Is it the fashion?
Title: Re: Sad day for music
Post by: greg on August 23, 2007, 06:03:58 AM
Quote from: karlhenning on August 23, 2007, 05:57:19 AM
I don't get why this supposedly maps onto "a sad day for music."
yeah, every day is a sad day for music
Title: Re: Sad day for music
Post by: Renfield on August 23, 2007, 06:15:18 AM
Mind you, having now seen the video in question, I can assert with the utmost certainty that a certain percentage of those 50.000.000+ views were related to the imagery in the video, more than the music. Short skirts, anyone? ;)

(In other words, don't discount non-musical factors involved in the popularity of this type of music. It might sound base. but we're talking about human beings, here, not supreme disembodied higher intellects of some sort.)

Finally, may I add that the debate in the present thread is, unfortunately, showing signs of age-related bias? In fact, it's almost as strong as the equally-amusing ease by which people closer to my age dismiss classical music. Apparently, respect of other people's taste is not included in the classical-music-listening portfolio, any more than it is included in the "pop music" aficionados' agenda: a shame.

But then again, it's all about the "kids being silly" and watching "stupid" videos on "shit like Youtube", isn't it? A "caste" even I seem to belong to, having just seen that very video-clip (albeit for reasons other than the "isn't Avril hawt", or "isn't this music the B3st eV4r??"). ::)
Title: Re: Sad day for music
Post by: head-case on August 23, 2007, 09:15:47 AM
Quote from: Renfield on August 23, 2007, 06:15:18 AM
Mind you, having now seen the video in question, I can assert with the utmost certainty that a certain percentage of those 50.000.000+ views were related to the imagery in the video, more than the music. Short skirts, anyone? ;)

The world really is going to hell in a hand-basket, after all "Girlfriend" is grossly inferior to "Complicated" by the same artist.  At this rate of decay, civilization will be all but decimated within 3 years, by my calculation.
Title: Re: Sad day for music
Post by: JoshLilly on August 23, 2007, 09:19:13 AM
Whew, what a relief! When I saw the title I thought they'd discovered Mahler's 11th Symphony.
Title: Re: Sad day for music
Post by: Saul on August 23, 2007, 10:59:07 AM
Quote from: karlhenning on August 23, 2007, 05:57:19 AM
I don't get why this supposedly maps onto "a sad day for music."

Good to see , Karl, that you are "updated" on these things... ::)  ;D  ;)
Title: Re: Sad day for music
Post by: orbital on August 23, 2007, 11:03:29 AM
Well I (and I'm sure a lot of others) have had my share of Avrilesque music in my earlier days I don't regret it one bit. What would the eighties mean without the likes of Kajagoogo, Duran Duran and the like ?  ;D

Similarly, I would not want my children to miss whatever it is that defines their generation. Art music or not, unless it is your profession why the need to take it so seriously? Avril is just fine, so is Fionna Apple  :) She is singing about boyfriend problems, why wouldn't a teenager want to listen to it? They have the same type of problems themselves. It is perfectly normal plus it is called Popular Music for a reason.
(Hey, I just bought a James Taylor CD this weekend, there is not any difference between them really when you think about it).
Title: Re: Sad day for music
Post by: karlhenning on August 23, 2007, 11:06:37 AM
I think I'm in trouble if pop music defines my generation  8)
Title: Re: Sad day for music
Post by: karlhenning on August 23, 2007, 11:09:28 AM
On the other hand, Songs in the Key of Life was a monster hit with my class our senior year;  we could have done much, much worse.
Title: Re: Sad day for music
Post by: orbital on August 23, 2007, 11:14:38 AM
Quote from: karlhenning on August 23, 2007, 11:06:37 AM
I think I'm in trouble if pop music defines my generation  8)
Don't you think it does? But Karl, you are professional too, so you have the right to take it seriously  $:)
Title: Re: Sad day for music
Post by: Haffner on August 23, 2007, 11:46:55 AM
Quote from: karlhenning on August 23, 2007, 11:09:28 AM
On the other hand, Songs in the Key of Life was a monster hit with my class our senior year;  we could have done much, much worse.





"Sir Duke" is a very fond memory from 6th grade. What an amazing voice that man had. Back then, I loved Elton John's "Captain Fantastic..." as well.
Title: Re: Sad day for music
Post by: Renfield on August 23, 2007, 12:08:37 PM
What is all this heresy!? The only songs you should all be listening to are the Rückert-Lieder! :P

(Kidding, in case it wasn't obvious. For my actual opinion, check page one.) 
Title: Re: Sad day for music
Post by: greg on August 23, 2007, 12:28:02 PM
Quote from: JoshLilly on August 23, 2007, 09:19:13 AM
Whew, what a relief! When I saw the title I thought they'd discovered Mahler's 11th Symphony.
don't even say that...
i just flooded my house with drool and then drowned in it and died.
Title: Re: Sad day for music
Post by: Haffner on August 23, 2007, 12:32:54 PM
Quote from: Renfield on August 23, 2007, 12:08:37 PM
What is all this heresy!? The only songs you should all be listening to are the Rückert-Lieder! :P

 





:-\I love those Lieder, especially the marvelous Karajan/Ludwig renderings.
Title: Re: Sad day for music
Post by: Renfield on August 23, 2007, 12:36:18 PM
Quote from: Haffner on August 23, 2007, 12:32:54 PM




:-\I love those Lieder, especially the marvelous Karajan/Ludwig renderings.

Yes, I love them too. :)

In fact, part of one is in my signature. ;)
Title: Re: Sad day for music
Post by: Josquin des Prez on August 23, 2007, 01:31:00 PM
Quote from: head-case on August 22, 2007, 08:27:46 PM
Apparently you people imagine that in 1826 peasants throughout Europe were listening to Beethoven's Grosse Fugue and not some crude folk music that was less sophisticated than even Avril. 

Bruckner came from a poor background, and so did Haydn. Don't underestimate the peasants.  ;D
Title: Re: Sad day for music
Post by: Haffner on August 23, 2007, 01:35:13 PM
Quote from: Renfield on August 23, 2007, 12:36:18 PM
Yes, I love them too. :)

In fact, part of one is in my signature. ;)




"I live in my own Heaven..."

Truly marvelous...
Title: Re: Sad day for music
Post by: head-case on August 23, 2007, 01:35:27 PM
Quote from: Haffner on August 23, 2007, 12:32:54 PM
:-\I love those Lieder, especially the marvelous Karajan/Ludwig renderings.
You haven't lived until you've heard the Karajan/Ludwig recording of "Sir Duke."  ;D
Title: Re: Sad day for music
Post by: Josquin des Prez on August 23, 2007, 01:37:02 PM
Quote from: Heather Harrison on August 22, 2007, 07:25:33 PM
What I want from popular music is real talent and creativity

I think the world of popular music is chocked filled with talent and creativity (the human factor is a constant after all). What they lack is real training and a great ongoing tradition to serve as inspiration. Even somebody like Beethoven would have never gone far if his education amounted to a few jamming garage sessions with his teenage friends.
Title: Re: Sad day for music
Post by: head-case on August 23, 2007, 01:39:09 PM
Quote from: Josquin des Prez on August 23, 2007, 01:31:00 PM
Bruckner came from a poor background, and so did Haydn. Don't underestimate the peasants.  ;D
Bruckner's father was a schoolmaster and church organist, not a peasant.  Haydn came from a meager background but was fortunate to have a relative who was a schoolmaster and a musician. 
Title: Re: Sad day for music
Post by: Josquin des Prez on August 23, 2007, 01:42:42 PM
Quote from: head-case on August 23, 2007, 01:39:09 PM
Bruckner's father was a schoolmaster and church organist, not a peasant.

My bad, my informations were tainted apparently.

BTW, perhaps it's also a question of intelligence. People with IQs of 120+ make up 12% of the population. That means a huge chunk of the population might simply not have the brain power to process complex music without getting an headache.
Title: Re: Sad day for music
Post by: beclemund on August 23, 2007, 01:55:16 PM
Quote from: head-case on August 23, 2007, 01:39:09 PMBruckner's father was a schoolmaster and church organist, not a peasant.  Haydn came from a meager background but was fortunate to have a relative who was a schoolmaster and a musician. 

So not unlike Avril Lavigne's family life. ;)
Title: Re: Sad day for music
Post by: Saul on August 23, 2007, 02:21:45 PM
Quote from: Josquin des Prez on August 23, 2007, 01:37:02 PM
I think the world of popular music is chocked filled with talent and creativity (the human factor is a constant after all). What they lack is real training and a great ongoing tradition to serve as inspiration. Even somebody like Beethoven would have never gone far if his education amounted to a few jamming garage sessions with his teenage friends.

The problem is that these teens who practice their "tunes" in their garage sessions lack a most essential element, its called talent.
Title: Re: Sad day for music
Post by: Josquin des Prez on August 23, 2007, 02:29:10 PM
Quote from: beclemund on August 23, 2007, 01:55:16 PM
So not unlike Avril Lavigne's family life. ;)

I don't think Avril Lavigne would have gone far even under the best conditions. Some people just can't be helped.
Title: Re: Sad day for music
Post by: head-case on August 23, 2007, 02:29:38 PM
Quote from: Saul on August 23, 2007, 02:21:45 PM
The problem is that these teens who practice their "tunes" in their garage sessions lack a most essential element, its called talent.
You think the drivel you put up on on YouTube exhibits talent?   >:D
Title: Re: Sad day for music
Post by: Josquin des Prez on August 23, 2007, 02:37:14 PM
Quote from: Saul on August 23, 2007, 02:21:45 PM
The problem is that these teens who practice their "tunes" in their garage sessions lack a most essential element, its called talent.

Some of them do have talent though. I always use Roger Waters as an example. His grew up in a environment which was completely noxious to his development. His mother was absolutely against music or art in general, and he never even touched an instrument until his mid/late teens. He still managed to make his band world famous, and his music isn't even all that bad. One needs to wonder how far he could have gone with a proper education and better music to serve as inspiration then the petty popular bands of his day.

You could apply the same situation to many of the best popular musicians out there.
Title: Re: Sad day for music
Post by: Saul on August 23, 2007, 04:29:52 PM
Quote from: head-case on August 23, 2007, 02:29:38 PM
You think the drivel you put up on on YouTube exhibits talent?   >:D

Well ofcourse
Title: Re: Sad day for music
Post by: head-case on August 23, 2007, 07:56:34 PM
Quote from: Saul on August 23, 2007, 04:29:52 PM
Well ofcourse
Everybody does.   ;D
Title: Re: Sad day for music
Post by: Saul on August 23, 2007, 08:13:13 PM
Quote from: head-case on August 23, 2007, 07:56:34 PM
Everybody does.   ;D

Well ofcourse
Title: Re: Sad day for music
Post by: Bonehelm on August 23, 2007, 10:24:34 PM
I look at this in a completely different way than you guys.

Avril has no talent. But she can make money. And what is this world all about again, kids?

So who wins now? She, or the self-aggrandizing, "artistic'', elitist, real classical musicians? I bet she already made more than Karajan did in his entire career span of 60+ years..

















And of course, whoever thinks this is really how I think, need another link to the almighty, free SarcasmSensor TM, sponsored by bonehead...

Title: Re: Sad day for music
Post by: Saul on August 24, 2007, 04:16:01 AM
Quote from: Bonehelm on August 23, 2007, 10:24:34 PM
I look at this in a completely different way than you guys.

Avril has no talent. But she can make money. And what is this world all about again, kids?

So who wins now? She, or the self-aggrandizing, "artistic'', elitist, real classical musicians? I bet she already made more than Karajan did in his entire career span of 60+ years..






And of course, whoever thinks this is really how I think, need another link to the almighty, free SarcasmSensor TM, sponsored by bonehead...




Youre mixing three things up here... money, art and talnet.
If you are a true artist, you will never trade your talnet for money.
If you are not an artist and you don't have talnet, you will use art and the talent of others to make money.

So its not about 'elitists" , its about the "Real thing" and the "fake thing", and as you know the "real thing" always triumphs in the end.



Title: Re: Sad day for music
Post by: greg on August 24, 2007, 06:00:25 AM
ok, i watched 1:50 of the video.
what do i think about it? when she has her black hair and black clothes on, she looks niiiiiiiiiiice.
when she has her blond hair and other clothes on, she looks like an ugly whore
(those are the same two girls, right?)

anyways, i'd even go far enough to say she doesn't have talent. I bet thousands of teenage girls can sing her songs just as good as her, that's pretty sad.



Quote from: Saul on August 24, 2007, 04:16:01 AM
So its not about 'elitists" , its about the "Real thing" and the "fake thing", and as you know the "real thing" always triumphs in the end.
oh, Saul, being so naive and optimistic.....
eventually real music will be pushed off the planet (oh wait, it already is)....
Title: Re: Sad day for music
Post by: mahlertitan on August 24, 2007, 07:46:07 AM
wow that video is horrible, basically you learn after watching it:
1) dress like a prostitute, because Avril Does, so that must be cool!
2) bully other normal people because you want to steal their boyfriends
3) it's possible to make money with a piece of crap
Title: Re: Sad day for music
Post by: Haffner on August 24, 2007, 08:29:43 AM
I was pretty put off by the music's recycled nature...I've heard each and every melody in this track dozens of times, easily. But overall it was bouncy and fun...the profanity seemed ignorant to me, but maybe that's simple American vernacular. In fact, the lyrics overall were pretty bad.

For me, this type of music is for whenever there exists a need to completely "not think". Fortunately (or maybe unfortunately) for me, I don't need this kind of thing often. Rarely in fact. But if I did, I wonder if my life would be a whole lot easier.
Title: Re: Sad day for music
Post by: marvinbrown on August 24, 2007, 08:32:22 AM
Quote from: Saul on August 22, 2007, 05:54:29 PM
Over 50.000.000 views for avril's stupid video "girlfriend".
Most watched on youtube....
What pulls people to listen to this junk?

 What can I say Saul...there's no accounting for taste, (bad taste as is the case here.)  

 marvin
Title: Re: Sad day for music
Post by: orbital on August 24, 2007, 08:37:56 AM
So if only Ms Lavigne never dyed her hair blonde and wore long flowing dresses that cover her ankles she would deserve our respect. At least partially  ;D If she gave up on singing and took on say, violin... she would be a model citizen for young girls everywhere  >:D
Title: Re: Sad day for music
Post by: Larry Rinkel on August 24, 2007, 08:49:23 AM
Quote from: head-case on August 23, 2007, 02:29:38 PM
You think the drivel you put up on on YouTube exhibits talent?   >:D


To paraphrase Oscar Wilde, there is drivel that exhibits talent and drivel that does not exhibit talent. Surely that is a matter that every piece of drivel can decide for itself.
Title: Re: Sad day for music
Post by: greg on August 24, 2007, 10:02:28 AM
Quote from: Haffner on August 24, 2007, 08:29:43 AM
For me, this type of music is for whenever there exists a need to completely "not think". Fortunately (or maybe unfortunately) for me, I don't need this kind of thing often. Rarely in fact. But if I did, I wonder if my life would be a whole lot easier.
it's like the epitome of "non thinking" music....
i do understand how people who are young, in high school, middle school, etc. don't really feel like thinking or using their brain so much after a long, hard, boring day at school studying... but this is a bit TOO much. There's really nothing going on in the music, i don't understand how that can be pleasing to anyone....
Title: Re: Sad day for music
Post by: orbital on August 24, 2007, 10:17:34 AM
Quote from: greg on August 24, 2007, 10:02:28 AM
it's like the epitome of "non thinking" music....
i do understand how people who are young, in high school, middle school, etc. don't really feel like thinking or using their brain so much after a long, hard, boring day at school studying... but this is a bit TOO much. There's really nothing going on in the music, i don't understand how that can be pleasing to anyone....
Greg, different people do different things for different reasons. You probably hear the same things from your peers about your musical taste: How can those screeching (that's how they may perceive it, believe it or not) noises be pleasing to you?

I don't enjoy her music myself, but I think the world needs a whole lot of more girls/women like her. Doing their own thing and yes, making money for it, and for me this is enough to justify any type of empty sounding music that is around.
Title: Re: Sad day for music
Post by: Haffner on August 24, 2007, 10:19:31 AM
Quote from: orbital on August 24, 2007, 10:17:34 AM

but I think the world needs a whole lot of more girls/women like her. Doing their own thing and yes, making money for it, and for me this is enough to justify any type of empty sounding music that is around.





If large groups of people are having their lives made in any way happier by it, I say YES!!!! I'm all for it.
Title: Re: Sad day for music
Post by: Renfield on August 24, 2007, 10:21:45 AM
Orbital beat me to the punch by some 45 seconds, then Haffner re-beat me to the second punch by a minute. Either I need to start typing extremely fast, or we are just of serendipitously similar mind, on this issue. ;)

(In other words, Orbital covered me, and Haffner covered me even more completely. :P)
Title: Re: Sad day for music
Post by: orbital on August 24, 2007, 10:23:47 AM
Quote from: Haffner on August 24, 2007, 10:19:31 AM




If large groups of people are having their lives made in any way happier by it, I say YES!!!! I'm all for it.
I am sure those 500,000 viewers take approximately the same amount of pleasure from watching that video as I do of a Sokolov one  :D Now I would not mind if some people put a few more out there (Sokolov not LAvigne ;D )
Title: Re: Sad day for music
Post by: greg on August 24, 2007, 10:28:35 AM
Quote from: orbital on August 24, 2007, 10:17:34 AM
Greg, different people do different things for different reasons. You probably hear the same things from your peers about your musical taste: How can those screeching (that's how they may perceive it, believe it or not) noises be pleasing to you?

I don't enjoy her music myself, but I think the world needs a whole lot of more girls/women like her. Doing their own thing and yes, making money for it, and for me this is enough to justify any type of empty sounding music that is around.
what i don't respect is the lack of knowledge about music that stars like her can get away with. Composers train and study for years just to learn "enough" to be succesfull. People like her get away with very little and make more money than you can ever dream of. So people like her don't get my respect (even if i did like pop/commercial music) compared to someone who is really knowledgeable, like Pierre Boulez.
it's ok to enjoy something simple and silly like that, but there's just no respect for anything that's complex.... i guess i'd be more succesfull if i forgot all the "extra" stuff i learned about music and join some gaya** band and strummed a chord or two for them cuz it's "cool" (though i'd die of boredom).
either way, the world's totally messed up...
Title: Re: Sad day for music
Post by: Haffner on August 24, 2007, 10:43:26 AM
Quote from: Renfield on August 24, 2007, 10:21:45 AM
Orbital beat me to the punch by some 45 seconds, then Haffner re-beat me to the second punch by a minute. Either I need to start typing extremely fast, or we are just of serendipitously similar mind, on this issue. ;)

(In other words, Orbital covered me, and Haffner covered me even more completely. :P)





(smiling wide in appreciation) But, wait...that's a good thing isn't it?
Title: Re: Sad day for music
Post by: Renfield on August 24, 2007, 10:49:12 AM
Quote from: greg on August 24, 2007, 10:28:35 AM
what i don't respect is the lack of knowledge about music that stars like her can get away with. Composers train and study for years just to learn "enough" to be succesfull. People like her get away with very little and make more money than you can ever dream of. So people like her don't get my respect (even if i did like pop/commercial music) compared to someone who is really knowledgeable, like Pierre Boulez.
it's ok to enjoy something simple and silly like that, but there's just no respect for anything that's complex.... i guess i'd be more succesfull if i forgot all the "extra" stuff i learned about music and join some gaya** band and strummed a chord or two for them cuz it's "cool" (though i'd die of boredom).
either way, the world's totally messed up...

Or maybe the world includes a variety of different people, and thus a variety of different tastes... If someone tried really hard and, after many years of careful study and practice, succeeded in emulating the sound of a dog barking, it wouldn't please me aesthetically more than "Girlfriend" did.

Understanding that certain pursuits require a certain type of rigorous and systematic effort to pursue successfuly is all nice and fair; but assuming that anything good must have years of practice behind it is a huge logical leap. Avril has her way, and Pierre Boulez has his: fair enough? :)

Haffner: Yeah, it's a good thing, as far as I'm concerned. ;D
Title: Re: Sad day for music
Post by: greg on August 25, 2007, 08:46:05 AM
Quote from: Renfield on August 24, 2007, 10:49:12 AM
Avril has her way, and Pierre Boulez has his: fair enough? :)

yeah, and she has to do much less study.

but i won't worry about it anyways, there's no way to change the tastes of the whole world.
Title: Re: Sad day for music
Post by: mahlertitan on August 25, 2007, 08:53:03 AM
Quote from: greg on August 25, 2007, 08:46:05 AM
yeah, and she has to do much less study.

but i won't worry about it anyways, there's no way to change the tastes of the whole world.

Avril has her qualities, and Boulez has his, i agree with Renfield on that one. For instance, Avril's ability to appeal to a wider audience obviously is not something that Boulez can ever manage to have.
Title: Re: Sad day for music
Post by: greg on August 25, 2007, 08:54:49 AM
Quote from: MahlerTitan on August 25, 2007, 08:53:03 AM
Avril has her qualities, and Boulez has his, i agree with Renfield on that one. For instance, Avril's ability to appeal to a wider audience obviously is not something that Boulez can ever manage to have.
nope, cuz he's too old
Title: Re: Sad day for music
Post by: mahlertitan on August 25, 2007, 09:12:44 AM
Quote from: greg on August 25, 2007, 08:54:49 AM
nope, cuz he's too old

i doubt that a young Boulez would've make much of a difference, unless he chose to play the bass guitar instead...
Title: Re: Sad day for music
Post by: greg on August 25, 2007, 09:44:44 AM
Quote from: MahlerTitan on August 25, 2007, 09:12:44 AM
i doubt that a young Boulez would've make much of a difference, unless he chose to play the bass guitar instead...
bass guitar?.....
nah, i think he'd have been succesful as a French hip hop artist