I can't take corporate brainwashed Americans and their IDIOTIC views ANYMORE I GO INSANE
I MUST stop STOP. I must stop talking about politics online!!! I have wasted so many hours. Fuck you americanS! Elect Biden then and NEVER have healthcare. LET 30000 people DIE!!!! Every YEAR!!! Millions offff bankruptcies!!! OLIGARCHYY!! BILLIONAIRES GET RICCCGHHHJ
FUCK YOUR""! TRUMP is Potus because of this. Biden = new trump. Don't you see? YOU NEED Bernie You need ,nEED
I can't write so ANGRTTTTYYYYUYUYTYY
It's umbearable to see how stupid people are when you know something. So much suffering because of ignorance! Is this shit 21 st century? amazing
I AM SICK OF reading I am wrong! Fuck you!
Now I need to calm down and FORGET the fucking USA even exists but it is difficult when it's a superpower!! Trumps tweets everywhere to remind me this stupid oligarchy exists!
I am partly angry because it's +30°C (86°F) inside my apartment! Heatwave. +28°C out (some parts of Finland even hotter). No IC. I'm completely naked all the time and still it's too hot! Next week will be colder...
Quote from: 71 dB on July 27, 2019, 10:07:49 AM
I'm completely naked all the time and still it's too hot!
May I recommend one of Starkers recordings of Bach's cello suites.
I certainly didn't warm to them.
There is the so-called principle of subsidiarity that says that if a lower level societal structure or institution can solve certain problems and uphold certain necessary levels of organization etc. it is wrong to delegate this to a "higher" or more centralized institution.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subsidiarity_(Catholicism)
This may not always be applicable.
But one case where some variant of this principle can be applied is the relation between US healthcare and domestic policy and some guy in Finland. Just stop bothering with US domestic policy. Nobody gains anything and nothing will change if you make this your business, because it simply is not your problem and your business. Let the people in the US deal with it.
Quote from: (: premont :) on July 27, 2019, 10:49:06 AM
May I recommend one of Starkers recordings of Bach's cello suites.
I certainly didn't warm to them.
Hahah! ;D
Quote from: Jo498 on July 27, 2019, 11:09:24 AM
Let the people in the US deal with it.
Fair enough, but how about taking these people in the US who ARE dealing with it seriously? This war is asymmetric when the corporate media can smear, fearmonger and lie all day long without ramifications. People should understand better why this war exists and what it means. It just seems people who live outside the US in countries where the media is not as corrupt it is in the US can see so much better how brutal and horrible the healthcare system in the US is. We are just telling Americans things can be much better if you want...
The US is in danger of losing democracy altogether and become a dictatorship. The most powerful country in the World being a non-democratic oligarchic dictatorship is VERY BAD NEWS for this planet. That's why I care. I want to see the democracy resqued and restored so that this superpower can act as the leader of democratic free world against the not so free countries such as Russia and China.
Quote from: (: premont :) on July 27, 2019, 10:49:06 AM
May I recommend one of Starkers recordings of Bach's cello suites.
I certainly didn't warm to them.
Hah!
Quote from: (: premont :) on July 27, 2019, 10:49:06 AM
May I recommend one of Starkers recordings of Bach's cello suites.
I certainly didn't warm to them.
Ha ha, very drole!
p.s. 71dB, I do hope you find a way of reconciling your passion with a peace of mind. :)
Quote from: 71 dB on July 27, 2019, 10:07:49 AM
I am partly angry because it's +30°C (86°F) inside my apartment! Heatwave. +28°C out (some parts of Finland even hotter). No IC. I'm completely naked all the time and still it's too hot! Next week will be colder...
That's a normal temp for this time of year here (inland Southern California). Hope you at least have some fans. Try to keep hydrated as well.
28-30C is perfect weather IMO but a bit too hot for indoors!
Quote from: (: premont :) on July 27, 2019, 10:49:06 AM
May I recommend one of Starkers recordings of Bach's cello suites.
I certainly didn't warm to them.
Really a superb pun, congratulations, sir! :D
8)
Quote from: Daverz on July 27, 2019, 12:55:31 PM
That's a normal temp for this time of year here (inland Southern California). Hope you at least have some fans. Try to keep hydrated as well.
Sure it's normal in Southern California, but you guys have IC, we don't (well, some people have). I have a fans, but it doesn't help much to circulate hot air around. Now that it's night (1 am) here the temperature has dropped to +22°C (71°F) and my fan is blowing on my balcony air in and at the moment it's "only" +29°C (84°F) in my room. :-\
Thanks for your concern, I have been drinking water. 0:)
At least Finland is not France where it has been over 40°C (104°F)... :o
Quote from: 71 dB on July 27, 2019, 02:05:25 PM
Sure it's normal in Southern California, but you guys have IC, we don't (well, some people have).
The house I grew up in, about 10 miles North of here, did not have AC, so it was box fans on all the time in the Summer. But it was dryer heat back then:
https://www.kpbs.org/news/2019/jul/22/its-not-your-imagination-humidity-getting-worse-sa/
My condo does have AC. I try to keep the inside temp to about 78 F, which costs about $100 above my usual electric costs.
We typically don't get the really hot weather until the end of August, when 110 F highs are not unusual.
Corporatists of this forum can try to teach me what Kyle Kulinski gets wrong in this clip about Medicine prices:
https://www.youtube.com/v/MeQP6NWZWU4
Quote from: 71 dB on July 27, 2019, 03:07:32 PM
Corporatists of this forum can try to teach me what Kyle Kulinski gets wrong in this clip about Medicine prices:
https://www.youtube.com/v/MeQP6NWZWU4
I like his channel, but I'm more of a Sam Seder guy.
I am finding it difficult not to mock you. But I will give you a serious response first. You suffer from too much certainty. You think complex issues simple, that you cannot be wrong, that educated thoughtful people cannot have legitimate disagreement, that your knowledge is complete. You are thousands of miles away but free of the slightest doubt that your view is perfect. You would a lot less frustrated if you had a little intellectual humility.
It's been over 100 degrees F here in S.England (hottest day ever recorded) and the combination of this and Brexit does not augur well for a calm state of mind.
Quote from: 71 dB on July 27, 2019, 11:21:59 AM
The US is in danger of losing democracy altogether and become a dictatorship. The most powerful country in the World being a non-democratic oligarchic dictatorship is VERY BAD NEWS for this planet. That's why I care. I want to see the democracy resqued and restored so that this superpower can act as the leader of democratic free world against the not so free countries such as Russia and China.
The US has been a ruthless imperialist power since the early 19th century. Since WW II they have used their role as "leader of the free world" as the ideological defense for more ruthless imperialism. So you are not only naive about better leaving US domestic policy alone but even more naive about their foreign policy that might eventually affect you. (I lived close to the "Fulda gap" in my youth, I would have been among the first to be nuclearly obliterated if the cold war had turned hot.)
Quote from: Ken B on July 27, 2019, 07:21:47 PM
I am finding it difficult not to mock you. But I will give you a serious response first. You suffer from too much certainty. You think complex issues simple, that you cannot be wrong, that educated thoughtful people cannot have legitimate disagreement, that your knowledge is complete. You are thousands of miles away but free of the slightest doubt that your view is perfect. You would a lot less frustrated if you had a little intellectual humility.
Ironically, America as a whole has a marked tendency to exhibit the same flaws...
Certainly, when it comes to something like healthcare, America has plenty of places it could consider emulating because they demonstrate better and more equitable outcomes. But resistance to adopting ideas from elsewhere is part of the American sense of identity of being the greatest country.
Quote from: 71 dB on July 27, 2019, 10:07:49 AM
I'm completely naked all the time!
Certainly one of the most scary posts I've read here.
;)
Quote from: Daverz on July 27, 2019, 04:01:38 PM
I like his channel, but I'm more of a Sam Seder guy.
Sam Seder is a smart guy, but he is not entertaining. It takes a minute for him to say anything. Kyle Kulinski is entertaining, colouful and says a lot in 30 seconds.
Quote from: Ken B on July 27, 2019, 07:21:47 PM
I am finding it difficult not to mock you. But I will give you a serious response first. You suffer from too much certainty. You think complex issues simple, that you cannot be wrong, that educated thoughtful people cannot have legitimate disagreement, that your knowledge is complete. You are thousands of miles away but free of the slightest doubt that your view is perfect. You would a lot less frustrated if you had a little intellectual humility.
Thank you for providing coolly sensible advice, upon which any of us might benefit to reflect.
Quote from: Madiel on July 28, 2019, 01:53:18 AM
Ironically, America as a whole has a marked tendency to exhibit the same flaws...
Undeniable. They remain flaws, nevertheless.
Quote from: 71 dB on July 27, 2019, 08:24:05 AM
I can't take corporate brainwashed Americans and their IDIOTIC views ANYMORE I GO INSANE
I MUST stop STOP. I must stop talking about politics online!!! I have wasted so many hours. Fuck you americanS! Elect Biden then and NEVER have healthcare. LET 30000 people DIE!!!! Every YEAR!!! Millions offff bankruptcies!!! OLIGARCHYY!! BILLIONAIRES GET RICCCGHHHJ
FUCK YOUR""! TRUMP is Potus because of this. Biden = new trump. Don't you see? YOU NEED Bernie You need ,nEED
I can't write so ANGRTTTTYYYYUYUYTYY
It's umbearable to see how stupid people are when you know something. So much suffering because of ignorance! Is this shit 21 st century? amazing
I AM SICK OF reading I am wrong! Fuck you!
Now I need to calm down and FORGET the fucking USA even exists but it is difficult when it's a superpower!! Trumps tweets everywhere to remind me this stupid oligarchy exists!
I wish I was a composer and could set this to music. Say, for vocal quartet, electric guitar, percussion
Quote from: pjme on July 28, 2019, 04:50:45 AM
I wish I was a composer and could set this to music. Say, for vocal quartet, electric guitar, percussion
Ohhh. Yes. As I'm currently in Shostakovich mode this could be reminiscent of
Five Romances on Words from Krokodil Magazine. The cranky letter about a pensioner who punches a bus driver...
Quote from: Jo498 on July 28, 2019, 12:00:35 AM
The US has been a ruthless imperialist power since the early 19th century. Since WW II they have used their role as "leader of the free world" as the ideological defense for more ruthless imperialism. So you are not only naive about better leaving US domestic policy alone but even more naive about their foreign policy that might eventually affect you. (I lived close to the "Fulda gap" in my youth, I would have been among the first to be nuclearly obliterated if the cold war had turned hot.)
It was policy that the war stay cold. Saving your life was not the point of the Cold War, just one of them. U.S. policy makers selfishly determined that the best way to save American lives from WWIII was to save countless millions of other lives all over the world and tailor our ruthless imperialism to that end. The ruthless imperialism is real, just as you say. Being the defender of a world-wide liberal political and economic order might be termed enlightened self interest, a positive sum outcome. I think it's worth preserving, TrumPutinists want to dismantle it. Make your choice while you still can.
I want to stop. People are against me here. People here are idiots and brainwashed. I want to stop
WHY THE FUCK DID TRUMP HAVE TO WIN??? I am so angry for the world! I study, I learn, I think, but NO RESPECT!! FUCK YOU!
Most responses on this topic have been respectful and sympathetic.
In the USA (the place you need to stop thinking about, especially when you're all naked and still hot) a lot of people have been going to therapy because they couldn't live with the daily deluge of awful frustrating stupid Trump news.
Maybe you have been following that type of news too much, too. It makes one feel helpless. You can just turn it off and be naked.
God (or that teapot orbiting the Sun between Earth and Mars),
Grant Poju the serenity to accept the things he cannot change,
Courage to change the things he can,
And wisdom to know the difference. 0:)
Quote from: Herman on August 04, 2019, 10:02:04 AM
Most responses on this topic have been respectful and sympathetic.
In the USA (the place you need to stop thinking about, especially when you're all naked and still hot) a lot of people have been going to therapy because they couldn't live with the daily deluge of awful frustrating stupid Trump news.
Maybe you have been following that type of news too much, too. It makes one feel helpless. You can just turn it off and be naked.
They have been. Maybe that's the problem. If anyone deserves mockery it's a naked Finn ranting about Trump and how much he knows about America. So in that spirit I for one will ask an American friend to donate to Trump's campaign in Poju's name.
Quote from: Herman on August 04, 2019, 10:02:04 AM
Most responses on this topic have been respectful and sympathetic.
In the USA (the place you need to stop thinking about, especially when you're all naked and still hot) a lot of people have been going to therapy because they couldn't live with the daily deluge of awful frustrating stupid Trump news.
Maybe you have been following that type of news too much, too. It makes one feel helpless. You can just turn it off and be naked.
You might be glad to know that the weather in Finland has turned A LOT colder and I'm wearing clothes at home again. :)
I just did some notch filter calculations/simulations while listening to
Ned Rorem. Helps a lot! 0:)
Quote from: 71 dB on August 04, 2019, 09:37:46 AM
I want to stop. People are against me here. People here are idiots and brainwashed. I want to stop
WHY THE FUCK DID TRUMP HAVE TO WIN??? I am so angry for the world! I study, I learn, I think, but NO RESPECT!! FUCK YOU!
Not all people.
But because of the way this board keeps a topic in your unread replies list forever if you post even a single thing, I resist the urge to post in certain topics.
What I will post here while I think of it is that if anyone wants to understand the problems with American health insurance, I recommend finding the podcast The Impact and listening to the episode "The curious case of the $629 Band-Aid".
I also find the fact that for so many people health insurance is tied to employment to be completely nuts. And as a factor preventing people from changing jobs it's economically inefficient.
Quote from: Madiel on August 04, 2019, 02:19:52 PM
What I will post here while I think of it is that if anyone wants to understand the problems with American health insurance, I recommend finding the podcast The Impact and listening to the episode "The curious case of the $629 Band-Aid".
I also find the fact that for so many people health insurance is tied to employment to be completely nuts. And as a factor preventing people from changing jobs it's economically inefficient.
Yes, the employer deduction is the root of much evil. One of the failures of Obamacare was the refusal to tackle it directly (ocare did have an indirect disincentive for some cases).
Quote from: Madiel on August 04, 2019, 02:19:52 PM
I also find the fact that for so many people health insurance is tied to employment to be completely nuts. And as a factor preventing people from changing jobs it's economically inefficient.
For real... I don't even get why anyone would take the risk of starting their own business, for example. Though maybe there is a reason I don't know about.
Quite.
Any discussion about how many people in the US have "private" health insurance needs to take into account that a very large proportion of those people can't actually afford to get it themselves, but rely on an employer to get it for them. Instead of relying on the government, people are relying on a corporation that can fire them.
Quote from: 71 dB on August 04, 2019, 11:24:00 AM
You might be glad to know that the weather in Finland has turned A LOT colder and I'm wearing clothes at home again. :)
I have no problem with you posting nude or naked. In fact I was assuming people in Finland are naked all summer long.
Quote from: 71 dB on August 04, 2019, 09:37:46 AM
I want to stop. People are against me here. People here are idiots and brainwashed. I want to stop
WHY THE FUCK DID TRUMP HAVE TO WIN??? I am so angry for the world! I study, I learn, I think, but NO RESPECT!! FUCK YOU!
I personally thought something stunk really bad about the win over Clinton. But then, it's not like this kind of thing happened before (i.e. Gore's getting outrageously cheated by Bush Jr.).
Quote from: Herman on August 05, 2019, 12:06:21 AM
I have no problem with you posting nude or naked. In fact I was assuming people in Finland are naked all summer long.
You must be thinking Finnish sauna...
I am noticing a pattern:
When I just live my life the way I want and don't tell about it to other people I am quite happy inside my introvert bubble, but then I start to feel I need to tell about these things to other people and I come online. What happens is a lot of people start telling:
- I don't know as much as I think I know
- I am wrong and lacking some information other people have
This causes feel of rejection and it bursts my bubble of happiness and self-esteem. It makes me feel anxiety. It makes me feel worthless. I am starting to realize that in order to be happy I NEED to be inside my introvert bubble while ignore to outside world completely. I think by calling other people idiots and brainwashed ignoramuses I try to protect my bubble so I can be happy. The problem is isolation. How to communicate only with people who are not out there to burst the happiness bubbles of other people? If only 1 % of people are like that, 99 % are not. It's devastating to realize isolation gives me happiness. I can't be happy without my introvert delusions. They make me feel the life is worth living.
This is the pattern of my life. It has happened so many times. I am a fragile person and other people can crush me easily. I need a strong bubble to protect me from anxiety and misery. Most people seem to be able to have high self-esteem while communicating with other people having various opininions. I can't. I have tried this. It's not working for me. So, now that I think I have gotten into music theory during the last year I won't share my "knowledge and understanding" with you! I won't allow you to crush my delusions about understanding music theory. Instead I concentrate on creating music because I am so excited to use what I know.
Quote from: 71 dB on August 05, 2019, 04:05:23 AM
I am noticing a pattern:
When I just live my life the way I want and don't tell about it to other people I am quite happy inside my introvert bubble, but then I start to feel I need to tell about these things to other people and I come online. What happens is a lot of people start telling:
- I don't know as much as I think I know
- I am wrong and lacking some information other people have
This causes feel of rejection and it bursts my bubble of happiness and self-esteem. It makes me feel anxiety. It makes me feel worthless. I am starting to realize that in order to be happy I NEED to be inside my introvert bubble while ignore to outside world completely. I think by calling other people idiots and brainwashed ignoramuses I try to protect my bubble so I can be happy. The problem is isolation. How to communicate only with people who are not out there to burst the happiness bubbles of other people? If only 1 % of people are like that, 99 % are not. It's devastating to realize isolation gives me happiness. I can't be happy without my introvert delusions. They make me feel the life is worth living.
This is the pattern of my life. It has happened so many times. I am a fragile person and other people can crush me easily. I need a strong bubble to protect me from anxiety and misery. Most people seem to be able to have high self-esteem while communicating with other people having various opininions. I can't. I have tried this. It's not working for me. So, now that I think I have gotten into music theory during the last year I won't share my "knowledge and understanding" with you! I won't allow you to crush my delusions about understanding music theory. Instead I concentrate on creating music because I am so excited to use what I know.
Very insightful, and I empathize with so much of this.
Quote from: 71 dB on August 05, 2019, 04:05:23 AM
I am noticing a pattern:
When I just live my life the way I want and don't tell about it to other people I am quite happy inside my introvert bubble, but then I start to feel I need to tell about these things to other people and I come online. What happens is a lot of people start telling:
- I don't know as much as I think I know
- I am wrong and lacking some information other people have
This causes feel of rejection and it bursts my bubble of happiness and self-esteem. It makes me feel anxiety. It makes me feel worthless. I am starting to realize that in order to be happy I NEED to be inside my introvert bubble while ignore to outside world completely. I think by calling other people idiots and brainwashed ignoramuses I try to protect my bubble so I can be happy. The problem is isolation. How to communicate only with people who are not out there to burst the happiness bubbles of other people? If only 1 % of people are like that, 99 % are not. It's devastating to realize isolation gives me happiness. I can't be happy without my introvert delusions. They make me feel the life is worth living.
This is the pattern of my life. It has happened so many times. I am a fragile person and other people can crush me easily. I need a strong bubble to protect me from anxiety and misery. Most people seem to be able to have high self-esteem while communicating with other people having various opininions. I can't. I have tried this. It's not working for me. So, now that I think I have gotten into music theory during the last year I won't share my "knowledge and understanding" with you! I won't allow you to crush my delusions about understanding music theory. Instead I concentrate on creating music because I am so excited to use what I know.
You have to learn when the internet is getting toxic for you and walk away from it.
It's harder on a message board that doesn't give you many tools to shut a conversation off (as I already noted, THIS message board will mark a conversation you've participated in as one you want to see replies in, permanently, and that's exactly why I've never posted in the thread that is annoying you so much).
The first step you can consider on this particular board is, if an individual is annoying you constantly then you can hide their posts. It will still show they've posted and you can choose to open the post to read the text, but it at least gives one barrier when you are feeling vulnerable.
Apart from that it's self learning about when you've got in too deep and too angry and it's doing you more damage than is worth the trouble. You learn to feel those signals and then go away to cool off.
At one point I left for seven years.
Quote from: Andy D. on August 05, 2019, 04:53:36 AM
Very insightful, and I empathize with so much of this.
Your empathy and understanding is much appreciated. 0:)
Quote from: Madiel on August 05, 2019, 05:05:02 AM
You have to learn when the internet is getting toxic for you and walk away from it.
It's harder on a message board that doesn't give you many tools to shut a conversation off (as I already noted, THIS message board will mark a conversation you've participated in as one you want to see replies in, permanently, and that's exactly why I've never posted in the thread that is annoying you so much).
The first step you can consider on this particular board is, if an individual is annoying you constantly then you can hide their posts. It will still show they've posted and you can choose to open the post to read the text, but it at least gives one barrier when you are feeling vulnerable.
Apart from that it's self learning about when you've got in too deep and too angry and it's doing you more damage than is worth the trouble. You learn to feel those signals and then go away to cool off.
Seeing the signals is not the main problem. It's more about having the self-control to do the right thing and walk away before things escalate and to my experience thing DO escalate fast. The first comment by someone on your FIRST post of a given topic can already be toxic in nature. It has taken me years to believe things can escalate that fast. I am finally believing it after experiencing it numerous times on various internet discussion boards. It's also impotant to realize you are don't have to respond to mean comments. We are free to walk away. So, let's celebrate our freedom to walk away from toxic discussions online. 0:)
Quote from: 71 dB on August 05, 2019, 04:05:23 AM
I am noticing a pattern:
When I just live my life the way I want and don't tell about it to other people I am quite happy inside my introvert bubble, but then I start to feel I need to tell about these things to other people and I come online. What happens is a lot of people start telling:
- I don't know as much as I think I know
- I am wrong and lacking some information other people have
This causes feel of rejection and it bursts my bubble of happiness and self-esteem. It makes me feel anxiety. It makes me feel worthless. I am starting to realize that in order to be happy I NEED to be inside my introvert bubble while ignore to outside world completely. I think by calling other people idiots and brainwashed ignoramuses I try to protect my bubble so I can be happy. The problem is isolation. How to communicate only with people who are not out there to burst the happiness bubbles of other people? If only 1 % of people are like that, 99 % are not. It's devastating to realize isolation gives me happiness. I can't be happy without my introvert delusions. They make me feel the life is worth living.
This is the pattern of my life. It has happened so many times. I am a fragile person and other people can crush me easily. I need a strong bubble to protect me from anxiety and misery. Most people seem to be able to have high self-esteem while communicating with other people having various opininions. I can't. I have tried this. It's not working for me. So, now that I think I have gotten into music theory during the last year I won't share my "knowledge and understanding" with you! I won't allow you to crush my delusions about understanding music theory. Instead I concentrate on creating music because I am so excited to use what I know.
This is fascinating, thanks for sharing.
Might even be enough info to check my list of people that might have an extremely similar or same personality type- so if I found someone, often you can learn from their insights especially if they are older.
I would definitely be interested in discussing music theory. I've tried and even here in the past it has generated almost no interest. Make a thread or something.
I think one of the reasons i got into personality theory lately is the idea of connecting something so abstract to something so concrete and scientific, and it's exactly the same reason i found music theory so fascinating.
Quote from: Madiel on August 05, 2019, 05:05:02 AM
You have to learn when the internet is getting toxic for you and walk away from it.
It's harder on a message board that doesn't give you many tools to shut a conversation off (as I already noted, THIS message board will mark a conversation you've participated in as one you want to see replies in, permanently, and that's exactly why I've never posted in the thread that is annoying you so much).
The first step you can consider on this particular board is, if an individual is annoying you constantly then you can hide their posts. It will still show they've posted and you can choose to open the post to read the text, but it at least gives one barrier when you are feeling vulnerable.
Apart from that it's self learning about when you've got in too deep and too angry and it's doing you more damage than is worth the trouble. You learn to feel those signals and then go away to cool off.
Bravo ! Your post contains sound and practical pieces of advice. About 3 years ago I put some people on my ignore list. I choose to open a post only if I'm interested in a subject and only in my own time. It defuses the negativity (some people write mostly negative stuff) and I feel on a better footing when I am not caught unawares.
The hardest part is to abstain from chiming in when a subjects engages the emotions. We are not robots. We are human beings, with beliefs and feelings. We can get hurt. Staying away is a form of self protection.
I, too, wish I could 'ignore' a thread I have once contributed in. Unfortunately it's impossible :(. Now that I've posted in this thread, it will forever pop up in the my list of unread threads. Something should be done about that. Can the board settings be changed by the Administrator ?
I have been reading but not commenting here because I want to let the OP enjoy one thread without my presence!
But please remember...no one is obligated to read every thread. Open the threads you want, don't open the threads you don't want. And at the end of the session, hit the "Mark all messages as read" button.
[Returns to read mode]
I never enabled a show me unread posts thing.
Quote from: drogulus on August 05, 2019, 12:20:17 PM
I never enabled a show me unread posts thing.
You don't have to enable it. It's sitting at the top of every page. Advertising itself as the quick way to see forum activity.
And for things you WANT to see it's a lot more convenient than trying to go through all the parts of the forum.
I now concentrate on my own life in order to find
peace of mind and joywhich I had before internet came dominant in our lives. Ignorance
is bliss when you don't know most people in the World disagrees with you.
I now know internet can do mental harm, make me angry and frustrated.
I have cared far too much about what other people think.
Not saying I leave for good, but I will be much less active.
If I am active I just state my opinions and ignore if people disagree.
I'm doing the same on other boards so, it's not
this board,
it's internet discussion boards in general. So toxic places... ::)
Quote from: greg on August 05, 2019, 08:09:53 AM
This is fascinating, thanks for sharing.
Might even be enough info to check my list of people that might have an extremely similar or same personality type- so if I found someone, often you can learn from their insights especially if they are older.
I would definitely be interested in discussing music theory. I've tried and even here in the past it has generated almost no interest. Make a thread or something.
I think one of the reasons i got into personality theory lately is the idea of connecting something so abstract to something so concrete and scientific, and it's exactly the same reason i found music theory so fascinating.
Thanks to yourself!
I certainly would like to discuss music theory, but I have learned my lesson by now. Everything turns toxic in unexpected ways. It's a law of human nature.
Quote from: 71 dB on August 07, 2019, 04:55:43 AM
I now concentrate on my own life in order to find peace of mind and joy
which I had before internet came dominant in our lives. Ignorance
is bliss when you don't know most people in the World disagrees with you.
I now know internet can do mental harm, make me angry and frustrated.
I have cared far too much about what other people think.
Not saying I leave for good, but I will be much less active.
You have finally seen the light! Bravo!
Quote from: Florestan on August 07, 2019, 05:08:50 AM
You have finally seen the light! Bravo!
Thanks! How about yourself? ;)
I like to stay in the dark so I can creep up on my opponents and strike without warning.
(https://fsmedia.imgix.net/7a/0e/fa/80/309f/4e78/8379/7daafa541092/this-albino-ball-python-has-smiley-face-patterns.gif?rect=44%2C0%2C392%2C196&auto=compress&dpr=2&w=392&fm=jpg)
(http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/Smileys/classic/grin.gif) (http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/Smileys/classic/grin.gif) (http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/Smileys/classic/grin.gif)
Quote from: drogulus on August 07, 2019, 10:05:48 AM
I like to stay in the dark so I can creep up on my opponents and strike without warning.
(https://fsmedia.imgix.net/7a/0e/fa/80/309f/4e78/8379/7daafa541092/this-albino-ball-python-has-smiley-face-patterns.gif?rect=44%2C0%2C392%2C196&auto=compress&dpr=2&w=392&fm=jpg)
(http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/Smileys/classic/grin.gif) (http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/Smileys/classic/grin.gif) (http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/Smileys/classic/grin.gif)
*chortle*
Quote from: 71 dB on August 07, 2019, 04:55:43 AM
Everything turns toxic in unexpected ways.
Insofar as hearing different points of view and having your own ideas challenged is "toxic".
Quote from: 71 dB on August 07, 2019, 04:55:43 AM
I now concentrate on my own life in order to find peace of mind and joy
which I had before internet came dominant in our lives. Ignorance
is bliss when you don't know most people in the World disagrees with you.
I now know internet can do mental harm, make me angry and frustrated.
I have cared far too much about what other people think.
Not saying I leave for good, but I will be much less active.
If I am active I just state my opinions and ignore if people disagree.
I'm doing the same on other boards so, it's not this board,
it's internet discussion boards in general. So toxic places... ::)
Thanks to yourself!
I certainly would like to discuss music theory, but I have learned my lesson by now. Everything turns toxic in unexpected ways. It's a law of human nature.
This is very useful thank you. I also tend to abandon boards in frustration, it seems whatever anyone says there is always someone to disagree with it.
Quote from: 2dogs on August 13, 2019, 10:00:46 AM
This is very useful thank you. I also tend to abandon boards in frustration, it seems whatever anyone says there is always someone to disagree with it.
Something to that, of course.
One of the truly awful things about "heaven" (along with everything else) is that there is no one to argue with.
Quote from: 2dogs on August 13, 2019, 10:00:46 AM
This is very useful thank you. I also tend to abandon boards in frustration, it seems whatever anyone says there is always someone to disagree with it.
No there isn't.
Just kidding. ;D
100% true... which is not a bad thing, really, as long as everyone isn't religiously glued to their own conclusions. That's the difference between it feeling like a discussion versus feeling like arguing.
Which is literally why it's called a "Discussion board" and not a "Argue to the death board" or a "Groupthink/Circlejerk board."
The best way to go about not feeling like that is to keep in mind that once you reach a conclusion about something in their mind, you should remember that there usually is going to be something you missed to throw off the equation. So throw it out there for people to discuss, and if someone present compelling evidence, you can change your mind and won't end up taking it personal. If it turns out no one has compelling evidence, then maybe over time you can gain some confidence that you're right.
Quote from: drogulus on August 13, 2019, 02:26:16 PM
One of the truly awful things about "heaven" (along with everything else) is that there is no one to argue with.
I am not convinced by this assertion.
People are rarely killed by arguments. Arguments are what discussions are about. How can you discuss if you don't know what argument is being offered?
Oh, there's no argument, people are just
chatting......in a supportive environment maybe?
Quote from: Madiel on August 13, 2019, 07:25:36 PM
I am not convinced by this assertion.
I'm way more not convinced than you are.
(http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/Smileys/classic/smiley.gif)
I understand what's bugging 71dB, but it's just a matter of how you look at differences of opinion.
Certainly where it's about taste in music, it doesn't really matter if someone else doesn't share your preference. He or she is a different person so it makes sense he or she likes something else.
The effort to persuade other people of one's pov is what causes a lot of aggravation. However, one can just say: "interesting you like this or that, chacun son gout.
Drogulus, the Bible has several examples of people arguing with God and God seeming to cope with this just fine.
So I'm not convinced there'll be no arguing in heaven. It will just be pleasant and respectful and not lead to claims that someone is going to hell for their views.
Churches that think everyone must think and believe EXACTLY the same thing on absolutely everything are generally not the healthiest churches.
Quote from: Herman on August 14, 2019, 12:17:26 AM
I understand what's bugging 71dB, but it's just a matter of how you look at differences of opinion.
Debating online seems to deteriote my happiness and well-being plus nobody pays me for doing it so why do it? Just because internet makes it technically possible doesn't mean I should do it. It just took this long to see what I do to myself. Sure, every now and then there's positive experiences online, but the toxic negativity is just overhelming.
Everything is
powerplay. Doesn't really matter if you are right or wrong. Power matters. Trump is in power so wind causes cancer. 99.9 % of scientists don't matter. They are not in power. The opinions of people in Hong Kong don't matter because they are not in power (meaning there is no real democracy). China is in power and it is a matter of time when they crush the people of Hong Kong. It's not feelings over facts or facts over feelings. It's (political and financial) power over both feelings AND facts.
Quote from: Madiel on August 14, 2019, 12:42:08 AM
Drogulus, the Bible has several examples of people arguing with God and God seeming to cope with this just fine.
Quiet, I'm having an argument with Godzilla in a Toho film.
OK, we're done.
(http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/Smileys/classic/cheesy.gif)
Quote from: drogulus on August 14, 2019, 04:43:38 AM
Quiet, I'm having an argument with Godzilla in a Toho film.
You're the one who mentioned "heaven". You don't have to believe in it to have a discussion about what the Bible actually says (which is at times in marked contrast to what some Christians think it says), anymore than you have to think Harry Potter is a documentary to read the text.
Quote from: Madiel on August 14, 2019, 04:46:18 AM
You're the one who mentioned "heaven". You don't have to believe in it to have a discussion about what the Bible actually says (which is at times in marked contrast to what some Christians think it says), anymore than you have to think Harry Potter is a documentary to read the text.
That's good to know, since I don't do "believe in". As far as what books say about the concept, they record beliefs that have passed down through time, they aren't evidence for the truth of any of them.
When an argument is bolstered by an equally suspect authority nothing much is accomplished. That's what "believe in" is for. When all else fails, there's that.
Monty Python had a sketch about theology, a block of flats that started shaking when people didn't believe in it.
(http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/Smileys/classic/smiley.gif)
Quote from: 71 dB on August 14, 2019, 01:58:08 AM
Debating online seems to deteriote my happiness and well-being plus nobody pays me for doing it so why do it? Just because internet makes it technically possible doesn't mean I should do it. It just took this long to see what I do to myself. Sure, every now and then there's positive experiences online, but the toxic negativity is just overhelming.
Everything is powerplay. Doesn't really matter if you are right or wrong. Power matters. Trump is in power so wind causes cancer. 99.9 % of scientists don't matter. They are not in power. The opinions of people in Hong Kong don't matter because they are not in power (meaning there is no real democracy). China is in power and it is a matter of time when they crush the people of Hong Kong. It's not feelings over facts or facts over feelings. It's (political and financial) power over both feelings AND facts.
Yes I am starting to feel more detached about the conflicts in the outside world and more interested in maintaining peace and order in my own mind and sphere of influence. The whole of human history could be summed up as
people fought each other to get stuff and ideas are some of the weapons.
Quote from: 71 dB on August 14, 2019, 01:58:08 AM
Everything is powerplay. Doesn't really matter if you are right or wrong. Power matters. Trump is in power so wind causes cancer. 99.9 % of scientists don't matter. They are not in power. The opinions of people in Hong Kong don't matter because they are not in power (meaning there is no real democracy). China is in power and it is a matter of time when they crush the people of Hong Kong. It's not feelings over facts or facts over feelings. It's (political and financial) power over both feelings AND facts.
True. Power decides everything.
Everything, truth, meaning, justice is all underneath power.
So much that I feel like the concept of personal responsibility might be way overemphasized. I mean, it exists, but 90% of the stuff that happens to people is outside their control.
Quote from: drogulus on August 14, 2019, 06:22:47 AM
That's good to know, since I don't do "believe in". As far as what books say about the concept, they record beliefs that have passed down through time, they aren't evidence for the truth of any of them.
When an argument is bolstered by an equally suspect authority nothing much is accomplished. That's what "believe in" is for. When all else fails, there's that.
Monty Python had a sketch about theology, a block of flats that started shaking when people didn't believe in it. (http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/Smileys/classic/smiley.gif)
Lol. So what was your source for making a claim about "heaven" in the first place? Clearly you had one.
Never mind. Because all this conversation is now doing is illustrating what I find to be one of the classic problems of arguing on the internet, and one of the most profoundly irritating. So let's just leave it as the model "answer" for the thread.
We disagree about the point of argument, which takes me back to my original position that it's useful and essential to intellectual life, as well as fun for all ages, except babies who haven't yet learned how.
You don't know that we disagree about the point of argument. We haven't discussed the point of argument.
All that we've discussed is your assertion that "heaven" doesn't have argument, which is fruitless because I can't get past the first step of establishing where your conception of "heaven" even comes from. For all I know it's purely an invention of your own mind and doesn't correspond with anyone else's conception of "heaven" at all.
Making the whole discussion about as effective as me deciding for some reason known only to me that heaven forbids the consumption of apricots, and then complaining that heaven is going to be missing my favourite fruit.
And that's one of the classic problems of arguing on the internet that I find so exasperating: an argument only works if you all start from the same basic premises, and I find that attempting to engage people on the basis of their own apparent premises rarely works because then they just spiral off anywhere they feel like. As you are doing. I can't debate "heaven" with you because I can't tell whether you just made "heaven" up entirely on your own or whether you recognise that there are established religions that have conceptions of heaven, regardless of whether you agree with those religions, that we can start from.
You are your own arbiter of truth, rendering argument utterly impossible.
Might I add, it does rather seem you think that the discussion is about whether heaven actually exists, when I haven't made any statement about that.
Nothing I've said depends on that any more than your original statement critiquing heaven depends on that. All it depends on is CONCEPTIONS of heaven existing. And me trying to figure out whether some external source told you in some way that heaven doesn't have argument (in which case I can assess the source and your use of it), or whether you just made up your own conception of heaven that you probably don't believe in for the sole purpose of critiquing it, which just makes your original remark masturbatory.
You can ride horses, you can have a concept of a horse, but you can't ride a horse concept.
Quote from: Madiel on August 14, 2019, 02:30:44 PM
I can't debate "heaven" with you because I can't tell whether you just made "heaven" up entirely on your own or whether you recognise that there are established religions that have conceptions of heaven, regardless of whether you agree with those religions, that we can start from.
I made it up just like everyone else did, but not very differently. There's no beer, for example. But my point about the value of argument was to use an imaginary realm where people don't argue. Since it's not a place but a "concept horse" it doesn't have to exactly conform to a particular tradition, the one with apricots any any other. The generic version will do. It's not like I have to book a flight or anything.
So you made a point about argument by using a conception of heaven that is fundamentally unarguable because you yourself created it and get to decide what it looks like.
Yeah. Good one.
As I said a couple of posts ago, I think what you've demonstrated is one of the fundamental problems with arguing on the internet. Without common external reference points it's useless. Your conception of heaven is just... yours.
EDIT: And you invented a heaven you don't like so you could tell us what was wrong with it. Seems slightly masochistic.
Quote from: Madiel on August 14, 2019, 03:51:01 PM
So you made a point about argument by using a conception of heaven that is fundamentally unarguable because you yourself created it and get to decide what it looks like.
Yeah. Good one.
Thanks, but I'm not taking special credit for using the bare-bones generic "no x in heaven" for all kinds of stuff people won't do there.
I might point out that at least one version of heaven, the traditional Jewish one, assumes friendly debate and argument (on topics of traditional Jewish law and lore) is an essential part of the heavenly lifestyle.
Quote from: JBS on August 14, 2019, 05:42:26 PM
I might point out that at least one version of heaven, the traditional Jewish one, assumes friendly debate and argument (on topics of traditional Jewish law and lore) is an essential part of the heavenly lifestyle.
Jews are awesome! I read they got the 7 heavens idea from the Babylonians, and the Greeks introduced the idea of an immortal soul. These days Jews don't try to ride concept horses like that. It's the history of their religion. Preserving that is an essential part of preserving themselves.
Quote from: drogulus on August 14, 2019, 06:58:30 PM
Jews are awesome! I read they got the 7 heavens idea from the Babylonians, and the Greeks introduced the idea of an immortal soul. These days Jews don't try to ride concept horses like that. It's the history of their religion. Preserving that is an essential part of preserving themselves.
Too much credit for the Greeks. The idea of a soul surviving physical death is already found (although not necessarily the idea of heaven as a reward) in various early strata of the Bible, as well as Egyptian and Persian religion. If anything, the Greeks got it from Egypt and Persia.
Quote from: Herman on August 14, 2019, 12:17:26 AM
I understand what's bugging 71dB, but it's just a matter of how you look at differences of opinion.
Certainly where it's about taste in music, it doesn't really matter if someone else doesn't share your preference. He or she is a different person so it makes sense he or she likes something else.
The effort to persuade other people of one's pov is what causes a lot of aggravation. However, one can just say: "interesting you like this or that, chacun son gout.
Truly
Quote from: JBS on August 14, 2019, 07:07:08 PM
Too much credit for the Greeks. The idea of a soul surviving physical death is already found (although not necessarily the idea of heaven as a reward) in various early strata of the Bible, as well as Egyptian and Persian religion. If anything, the Greeks got it from Egypt and Persia.
I think it's true the Greeks got it from the Egyptians. Originally the Jews thought souls would merge with their god, separate immortal existence came later. The Jewish Encyclopedia (1906) says:
The belief in the immortality of the soul came to the Jews from contact with Greek thought and chiefly through the philosophy of Plato, its principal exponent, who was led to it through Orphic and Eleusinian mysteries in which Babylonian and Egyptian views were strangely blended
Quote from: drogulus on August 14, 2019, 03:15:56 PM
You can ride horses, you can have a concept of a horse, but you can't ride a horse concept.
It's kind of ironic to start an argument about religion (on of the most contentious issues) in a topic which 71dB started to say arguments drive him mad (literally).
It's like saying: "we are going to argue and we're going to do it right in your back yard, and if you don't like it, just get out."
Quote from: drogulus on August 14, 2019, 08:35:14 PM
I think it's true the Greeks got it from the Egyptians. Originally the Jews thought souls would merge with their god, separate immortal existence came later. The Jewish Encyclopedia (1906) says:
The belief in the immortality of the soul came to the Jews from contact with Greek thought and chiefly through the philosophy of Plato, its principal exponent, who was led to it through Orphic and Eleusinian mysteries in which Babylonian and Egyptian views were strangely blended
In the intervening 113 years since that was written, that idea has been disproved. The idea of existence in a not clearly defined afterlife (Sheol) was already existence by the time the books of Samuel and Kings were written, which occurred before any contact with the Greeks. To put in context, Saul and David lived a century or two after the Trojan War; Homer and Hesiod were roughly contemporary with the Assyrian conquest of the Northern Kingdom of Israel; Plato was roughly contemporary with Nehemiah, Ezra, and the building of the Second Temple. Even if you think most of the Old Testament was written during the Babylonian Captivity or soon after, that means it was written before anyone outside Greece would ever know anything about Plato, and Jewish contact with the Greeks came mainly as a result of the conquests of Alexander the Great. Whereas, aside from any indigenous ideas on the subject, the Hebrews would have known about the Egyptian beliefs on the subject from the time (obviosly) of the slavery in Egypt, and been exposed to Babylonian and Persian beliefs no later than the Babylonian Captivity.
Quote from: JBS on August 15, 2019, 06:55:23 AM
In the intervening 113 years since that was written, that idea has been disproved. The idea of existence in a not clearly defined afterlife (Sheol) was already existence by the time the books of Samuel and Kings were written, which occurred before any contact with the Greeks. To put in context, Saul and David lived a century or two after the Trojan War; Homer and Hesiod were roughly contemporary with the Assyrian conquest of the Northern Kingdom of Israel; Plato was roughly contemporary with Nehemiah, Ezra, and the building of the Second Temple. Even if you think most of the Old Testament was written during the Babylonian Captivity or soon after, that means it was written before anyone outside Greece would ever know anything about Plato, and Jewish contact with the Greeks came mainly as a result of the conquests of Alexander the Great. Whereas, aside from any indigenous ideas on the subject, the Hebrews would have known about the Egyptian beliefs on the subject from the time (obviosly) of the slavery in Egypt, and been exposed to Babylonian and Persian beliefs no later than the Babylonian Captivity.
Yes, that's what I read. Then there is this from the Encyclopedia of Religion (2005):
According to the Hebrew Bible, a dead human being remains in possession of the soul upon entering Sheʾol, a shadowy place sometimes synonymous with the grave, where the vitality and energy associated with worldly life are drastically decreased. Since both the body and the soul enter Sheʾol, the later doctrine of the resurrection (as expressed in Isaiah 24–27 and Daniel 12) indicates a reentry into life in both aspects. The Greeks brought a sharp dualism of body/soul and soul immortality that was not present in prior Jewish thought. I looked at other sources to confirm that body/soul unity and resurrection of both was the early view. I don't know how this fits with soul merger, it doesn't seem like it does.
Quote from: Herman on August 14, 2019, 10:48:37 PM
It's kind of ironic to start an argument about religion (on of the most contentious issues) in a topic which 71dB started to say arguments drive him mad (literally).
It's like saying: "we are going to argue and we're going to do it right in your back yard, and if you don't like it, just get out."
I can't argue with that.
(http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/Smileys/classic/smiley.gif)