Aside from Shostakovich, Prokofiev, Rachmaninoff, who is your favorite Soviet composer? I'll define Soviet composer as a composer whose reputation relies prominently between works composed during 1917-1992. So Khachaturian qualifies but Russian born Airat Ichmouratov (b. 1973) would not.
Sofia Gubaidulina
--Bruce
That's a tough one! If pushed into a corner, I'd say Weinberg. I'm not sure if he qualifies as a 'famous one'. If he does, then I choose Myaskovsky.
Second choice: Alfred Schnittke
--Bruce
Yes, Schnittke. But also Kancheli, Silvestrov, Popov, Shebalin and Lyatoshinsky, too. I guess Weinberg can be counted as an honorary Soviet composer. He deserves a top spot IMO.
Wait till vandermolen sees this thread ;).
Quote from: relm1 on June 03, 2020, 04:37:40 PM
Aside from Shostakovich, Prokofiev, Rachmaninoff, who is your favorite Soviet composer? I'll define Soviet composer as a composer whose reputation relies prominently between works composed during 1917-1992. So Khachaturian qualifies but Russian born Airat Ichmouratov (b. 1973) would not.
Your definition includes a lot of people, though, as it doesn't refer to nationality in any way. So Copland and Boulez and Stockhausen as well. And Stravinsky.
To answer what I think you were going for, however, Avet Terterian.
Dmitry Kabalevsky. Or Gavriil Popov. Or Nikolai Myaskovsky.
Khachaturian
Part
Quote from: Symphonic Addict on June 03, 2020, 07:51:21 PM
Dmitry Kabalevsky. Or Gavriil Popov. Or Nikolai Myaskovsky.
Would love to pick your mind about Kabalevsky, Cesar. What's so great about this composer in your opinion? I have a good bit of his music on disc: the CPO sets of symphonies and PCs and all of the Chandos recordings of various orchestral works. I believe I also own a good bit of his music on Naxos.
Quote from: Mirror Image on June 03, 2020, 08:07:21 PM
Would love to pick your mind about Kabalevsky, Cesar. What's so great about this composer in your opinion? I have a good bit of his music on disc: the CPO sets of symphonies and PCs and all of the Chandos recordings of various orchestral works. I believe I also own a good bit of his music on Naxos.
I sometimes feel Kabalevsky like a more relaxed and more good-humoured composer if compared with Shostakovich or Prokofiev, but at the same time he shares features from both composers. It's relatively noticeable. His music can be very fun (Piano Concertos, overtures, piano music), but he can achieve moments of eloquent profundity, like in his Requiem, the powerful Cello Concerto No. 2 or the 3rd Symphony. That CPO set of the symphonies is excellent. Naxos has recorded two of his symphonies with some overtures. A great disc.
I would think that if you like Shostakovich and Prokofiev, you could enjoy Kabalevsky.
Quote from: Symphonic Addict on June 03, 2020, 08:16:49 PM
I sometimes feel Kabalevsky like a more relaxed and more good-humoured composer if compared with Shostakovich or Prokofiev, but at the same time he shares features from both composers. It's relatively noticeable. His music can be very fun (Piano Concertos, overtures, piano music), but he can achieve moments of eloquent profundity, like in his Requiem, the powerful Cello Concerto No. 2 or the 3rd Symphony. That CPO set of the symphonies is excellent. Naxos has recorded two of his symphonies with some overtures. A great disc.
I would think that if you like Shostakovich and Prokofiev, you could enjoy Kabalevsky.
Thanks for the feedback, Cesar. I have listened to Kabalevsky many years ago, but haven't really thought about his music in years.
Quote from: André on June 03, 2020, 05:39:11 PM
Yes, Schnittke. But also Kancheli, Silvestrov, Popov, Shebalin and Lyatoshinsky, too. I guess Weinberg can be counted as an honorary Soviet composer. He deserves a top spot IMO.
Wait till vandermolen sees this thread ;).
Haha :)
If it's only one then definitely Miaskovsky but others on my radar are:
Popov
Shebalin
Eshpai
Boris Tchaikovsky's 'Sebastapol Symphony' (No.3) has recently had a big impact on me.
If Lyatoshinsky and Weinberg are allowed then them too.
Schnittke for me.
Quote from: relm1 on June 03, 2020, 04:37:40 PM
Aside from Shostakovich, Prokofiev, Rachmaninoff, who is your favorite Soviet composer? I'll define Soviet composer as a composer whose reputation relies prominently between works composed during 1917-1992. So Khachaturian qualifies but Russian born Airat Ichmouratov (b. 1973) would not.
This illustrates how random and "pointless" these classifications are. Arvo Pärt perhaps used to be a Soviet composer, but has certainly always identified himself as an Estonian! Are we supposed to call Pärt a Soviet composer just because Estonia's independence wasn't restored until 1991? How about Valentin Silvestrov? Did he identify himself as a Soviet or Ukranian composer? These are important things because how you identify yourself has an influence on your art! Weinberg can be perhaps called a "genuine" Soviet composer, but even he much have had Polish identity. However, this is a fool game. I like or dislike a composer regardless of their nationality, country of birth or how they identified themselves.
Should I pick 5 from the former Soviet sphere, it would probably be Myaskovsky, Schnittke, Gubaidulina, Feinberg, Silvestrov (including early Silvestrov).
But I could easily pick further ones - Weinberg, Denisov, Pärt, Glonti, Artyomov etc.
Silvestrov has gone rather Ukranian in the last years, due to the Russian leadership's attacks on Ukraine, but he is distinguishing between the Russian leadership/Putin and the cultural relations http://www.musicologynow.org/2014/03/valentin-silvestrov-and-what-times.html
Gubaidulina on the other hand, a friend of Silvestrov and Pärt etc., calling herself Russian, seems to adhere to the Russian version of the events in Ukraine, including the so-called Russian "humanitarian convoys" into it etc. https://russkiymir.ru/en/publications/235491/
Rachmaninov a Soviet composer? Surely that's a typo.
Anyway, I'm gonna have to default to Weinberg, though I enjoy Kabalevsky and I am curious if Czech and Hungarian composers from this time period qualify, or if they are more "Iron Curtain" composers than strictly Soviet. Someone listed Arvo Part, so maybe I can indeed sneak in Kabelac or Ligeti...
Quote from: relm1 on June 03, 2020, 04:37:40 PM
Rachmaninoff
If
Rachmaninoff, a staunchly anti-Bolshevik lesser aristocrat (described by Pravda as "especially dangerous on the ideological front of the current class war") who never set foot on USSR soil qualifies as Soviet, then next to him my favorites are
Medtner and
Bortkiewicz. ;D
EDIT: I see Brian beat me to it.
Now seriously speaking, I haven't listened to much Soviet music besides
Shostakovich and
Prokofiev but I liked anything I've heard by
Khachaturyan and
Kabalevsky. And recently I discovered the wonderful piano music of one
Anatoly Alexandrov.
A composer I've been meaning to explore for ages but somehow never got to start the project is
Myaskovsky.
Quote from: Florestan on June 04, 2020, 06:00:12 AM
If Rachmaninoff, a staunchly anti-Bolshevik lesser aristocrat (described by Pravda as "especially dangerous on the ideological front of the current class war") who never set foot on USSR soil qualifies as Soviet, then next to him my favorites are Medtner and Bortkiewicz. ;D
EDIT: I see Brian beat me to it.
Now seriously speaking, I haven't listened to much Soviet music besides Shostakovich and Prokofiev but I liked anything I've heard by Khachaturyan and Kabalevsky. And recently I discovered the wonderful piano music of one Anatoly Alexandrov.
A composer I've been meaning to explore for ages but somehow never got to start the project is Myaskovsky.
You should definitely checkout Myaskovsky, Andrei. And while you're at it, Weinberg as well.
Quote from: Mirror Image on June 04, 2020, 06:07:08 AM
You should definitely checkout Myaskovsky, Andrei. And while you're at it, Weinberg as well.
Will certainly do, John.
From
Weinberg I have only this:
(https://i.ndcd.net/13/Item/500/299145.jpg)
and I quite liked the works I've already listened to.
Where would you say I should start with his symphonic and chamber music?
Quote from: Florestan on June 04, 2020, 06:12:19 AM
Where would you say I should start with his symphonic and chamber music?
The most readily accessible Weinberg is probably the concertante works - cello concerto (which I think is one of the 5 or so best ever written), clarinet concerto, flute concertos, violin concerto. The string quartets have a very big fan club and will appeal to anyone who likes Shostakovich, but I don't know which quartets exactly to start with, maybe somebody else will.
One thing I should say, knowing your own listening habits, is that near the end of his career, Weinberg got very bleak and gloomy and grayscale, so you should probably NOT try his late symphonies (i.e., after number 15 or so) until you are an advanced Weinberg fan. In terms of symphonic repertoire, better to start with symphonies 3 or 5.
EDIT: oh and the piano quintet is super duper good. The Rhapsody on Moldavian Themes is a light music masterpiece that fits right alongside rhapsodies by Enescu or the Dances of Galanta.
Quote from: Brian on June 04, 2020, 06:16:26 AM
The most readily accessible Weinberg is probably the concertante works - cello concerto (which I think is one of the 5 or so best ever written), clarinet concerto, flute concertos, violin concerto. The string quartets have a very big fan club and will appeal to anyone who likes Shostakovich, but I don't know which quartets exactly to start with, maybe somebody else will.
One thing I should say, knowing your own listening habits, is that near the end of his career, Weinberg got very bleak and gloomy and grayscale, so you should probably NOT try his late symphonies (i.e., after number 15 or so) until you are an advanced Weinberg fan. In terms of symphonic repertoire, better to start with symphonies 3 or 5.
EDIT: oh and the piano quintet is super duper good. The Rhapsody on Moldavian Themes is a light music masterpiece that fits right alongside rhapsodies by Enescu or the Dances of Galanta.
Thanks, Brian, duly noted.
Not mentioned yet (?): Ustvolskaya, to go by my personal listening frequency. Although I can't objectively consider her a "major" composer.
Quote from: Florestan on June 04, 2020, 06:12:19 AM
Will certainly do, John.
From Weinberg I have only this:
(https://i.ndcd.net/13/Item/500/299145.jpg)
and I quite liked the works I've already listened to.
Where would you say I should start with his symphonic and chamber music?
For Weinberg's symphonies, I'd start with the 3rd, 4th, 5th or 6th. You really can't go wrong with any of these symphonies, but I would probably start with the 3rd if I were just coming to Weinberg's symphonies for the first-time because this particular symphony has a more optimistic mood to it that I think will help you ease into the other symphonies. For the chamber works,
String Quartet No. 6 is probably the best place to start from the ones I've heard so far, but
String Quartet No. 7 would also be a fine introduction to his SQs as well. I also think the
Piano Quintet,
Violin Sonata No. 4,
Clarinet Sonata,
Piano Trio and the
Cello Sonatas would all make fine introductions to his chamber music.
Quote from: Mirror Image on June 04, 2020, 06:30:38 AM
For Weinberg's symphonies, I'd start with the 3rd, 4th, 5th or 6th. You really can't go wrong with any of these symphonies, but I would probably start with the 3rd if I were just coming to Weinberg's symphonies for the first-time because this particular symphony has a more optimistic mood to it that I think will help you ease into the other symphonies. For the chamber works, String Quartet No. 6 is probably the best place to start from the ones I've heard so far, but String Quartet No. 7 would also be a fine introduction to his SQs as well. I also think the Piano Quintet, Violin Sonata No. 4, Clarinet Sonata, Piano Trio and the Cello Sonatas would all make fine introductions to his chamber music.
Duly noted as well, John --- and thanks.
Quote from: Florestan on June 04, 2020, 06:32:38 AM
Duly noted as well, John --- and thanks.
My pleasure, Andrei. 8)
Concerning Khachaturian, it might be worth mentioning that there are two of them: Aram (= famous) and Karen (not so famous, but also a writer of symphonies, concertos and other ambitious works, in a perhaps slightly more modern and introvert style).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karen_Khachaturian
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aram_Khachaturian
Quote from: Florestan on June 04, 2020, 06:00:12 AM
A composer I've been meaning to explore for ages but somehow never got to start the project is Myaskovsky.
Andrei, if you listen to 21 symphony of Myaskovsky - you will know what could write and feel perhaps Rachmaninov if he had returned to USSR (shortly before war).
It is one part composition. Link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hGC3iPhRT5Y
Schnittke, Weinberg, and Myaskovsky
Quote from: Brian on June 04, 2020, 06:16:26 AM
The most readily accessible Weinberg is probably the concertante works - cello concerto (which I think is one of the 5 or so best ever written), clarinet concerto, flute concertos, violin concerto. The string quartets have a very big fan club and will appeal to anyone who likes Shostakovich, but I don't know which quartets exactly to start with, maybe somebody else will.
One thing I should say, knowing your own listening habits, is that near the end of his career, Weinberg got very bleak and gloomy and grayscale, so you should probably NOT try his late symphonies (i.e., after number 15 or so) until you are an advanced Weinberg fan. In terms of symphonic repertoire, better to start with symphonies 3 or 5.
EDIT: oh and the piano quintet is super duper good. The Rhapsody on Moldavian Themes is a light music masterpiece that fits right alongside rhapsodies by Enescu or the Dances of Galanta.
Agree with most of your comments here, especially regarding the excellence and accessibility of the Cello Concerto and the gloominess/bleakness of the later symphonies.
Quote from: Florestan on June 04, 2020, 06:00:12 AM
If Rachmaninoff, a staunchly anti-Bolshevik lesser aristocrat (described by Pravda as "especially dangerous on the ideological front of the current class war") who never set foot on USSR soil qualifies as Soviet, then next to him my favorites are Medtner and Bortkiewicz. ;D
EDIT: I see Brian beat me to it.
Now seriously speaking, I haven't listened to much Soviet music besides Shostakovich and Prokofiev but I liked anything I've heard by Khachaturyan and Kabalevsky. And recently I discovered the wonderful piano music of one Anatoly Alexandrov.
A composer I've been meaning to explore for ages but somehow never got to start the project is Myaskovsky.
For Myaskovsky/Miaskovsky Andrei I'd agree with Dima in recommending the concise and poetic Symphony No.21. If you like it you might enjoy the Cello Concerto, Second Cello Sonata, 5th Piano Sonata and symphonies 3,6,17,22,23 (v approachable),24,25 and the valedictory 27. The Violin Concerto is enjoyable as well.
If forced to go with just one, I'd say Kabalevsky. His music often has more depth than it is credited for, not to mention a great sense of wit, inventiveness, and a gift for melody. Kabalevsky doesn't plumb the psychological depths of human anguish like Shostakovich or Weinberg often do, so I find his music more conducive to frequent listening. His two string quartets, Symphony no. 2, Piano Concerto no. 2, Piano Sonata no. 2, and Cello Sonata have all been recent revelations of mine.
Quote from: kyjo on June 04, 2020, 11:11:56 AM
If forced to go with just one, I'd say Kabalevsky. His music often has more depth than it is credited for, not to mention a great sense of wit, inventiveness, and a gift for melody. Kabalevsky doesn't plumb the psychological depths of human anguish like Shostakovich or (sometimes) Weinberg, so I find his music more conducive to frequent listening. His 2 string quartets, Symphony no. 2, Piano Concerto no. 2, Piano Sonata no. 2, and Cello Sonata have all been recent revelations of mine.
Very nice, Kyle. Sounds like I need to get out my Kabalevsky recordings. :)
Quote from: Mirror Image on June 04, 2020, 11:13:08 AM
Very nice, Kyle. Sounds like I need to get out my Kabalevsky recordings. :)
Sounds like a plan, John! 8)
Despite that Kabalevsky wrote many classical compositions, he is mostly famous in Russia by his songs for children chor.
They are not well known abroad, because of russian language, but I also suppose them as his best achivements.
It is just that case when one song may costs as all his symphonies.
Quote from: MusicTurner on June 04, 2020, 05:21:41 AM
Gubaidulina on the other hand, a friend of Silvestrov and Pärt etc., calling herself Russian, seems to adhere to the Russian version of the events in Ukraine, including the so-called Russian "humanitarian convoys" into it etc. https://russkiymir.ru/en/publications/235491/
Ouch. She sounds exactly like my elderly mother-in-law (another Soviet emigre), who leaves Russia's Channel 1 on in the background all day, and then tends to simply repeat unthinkingly everything she has been hearing. And this from someone whose entire life in the USSR was spent among a dissident intelligentsia and experiencing great hardship at the hands of the authorities.
People naturally change as they get older and there have been plenty of cases of Soviet dissidents ultimately becoming pro-authoritarian (Solzhenitsyn is perhaps the most infamous). In that case, you almost have to be grateful that a composer like Alfred Schnittke died young, so that his legacy of humanism and resistance remained unstained. Imagine how painful for fans it would be if the composer who wrote
Life with an Idiot started extolling Putin and the siloviki.
Quote from: CRCulver on June 04, 2020, 08:11:02 PM
Ouch. She sounds exactly like my elderly mother-in-law (another Soviet emigre), who leaves Russia's Channel 1 on in the background all day, and then tends to simply repeat unthinkingly everything she has been hearing. And this from someone whose entire life in the USSR was spent among a dissident intelligentsia and experiencing great hardship at the hands of the authorities.
People naturally change as they get older and there have been plenty of cases of Soviet dissidents ultimately becoming pro-authoritarian (Solzhenitsyn is perhaps the most infamous). In that case, you almost have to be grateful that a composer like Alfred Schnittke died young, so that his legacy of humanism and resistance remained unstained. Imagine how painful for fans it would be if the composer who wrote Life with an Idiot started extolling Putin and the siloviki.
That was more or less what I was thinking too ...
Probably Medtner
Followed by Veinberg
Medtner can hardly be considered "Soviet" (neither can Rachmaninoff). He left in 1921. I think composers who grew up and were established before the revolution should only be considered Soviet if they remained for some time and were somewhat appreciated by the Soviets. Someone like Lourié who was close to the Soviets at the very beginning but also left in 1921 is a borderline case.
I'd nominate Alexander Mosolov who was both one of the most interesting "Soviet Avantgarde" composers in the 1920s and eventually a victim of the totalitarian system.
Quote from: some guy on June 03, 2020, 05:43:04 PM
Your definition includes a lot of people, though, as it doesn't refer to nationality in any way. So Copland and Boulez and Stockhausen as well. And Stravinsky.
To answer what I think you were going for, however, Avet Terterian.
Strange response. So Copland, Boulez, and Stockhausen qualify as Soviets now? And Stravinsky qualifies as non-famous? Ok.
Quote from: 71 dB on June 04, 2020, 03:14:01 AM
This illustrates how random and "pointless" these classifications are. Arvo Pärt perhaps used to be a Soviet composer, but has certainly always identified himself as an Estonian! Are we supposed to call Pärt a Soviet composer just because Estonia's independence wasn't restored until 1991? How about Valentin Silvestrov? Did he identify himself as a Soviet or Ukranian composer? These are important things because how you identify yourself has an influence on your art! Weinberg can be perhaps called a "genuine" Soviet composer, but even he much have had Polish identity. However, this is a fool game. I like or dislike a composer regardless of their nationality, country of birth or how they identified themselves.
Wouldn't you say the Soviets would include Part since Estonia was in the Soviet Union till 1992? I think Schnittke is a more complex since he left in the 1970's to live in Germany when he was in his mid 30's. So I could see that as Soviet/German. It does get a bit slippery and is a bit of judgement.
Quote from: MusicTurner on June 04, 2020, 06:40:03 AM
Concerning Khachaturian, it might be worth mentioning that there are two of them: Aram (= famous) and Karen (not so famous, but also a writer of symphonies, concertos and other ambitious works, in a perhaps slightly more modern and introvert style).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karen_Khachaturian
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aram_Khachaturian
Wow, talented family!
Quote from: relm1 on June 05, 2020, 06:21:08 AM
Wouldn't you say the Soviets would include Part since Estonia was in the Soviet Union till 1992? I think Schnittke is a more complex since he left in the 1970's to live in Germany when he was in his mid 30's. So I could see that as Soviet/German. It does get a bit slippery and is a bit of judgement.
Gubaidulina also left the Soviet Union to live in Germany, so does this maker her Soviet/German as well?
Quote from: Mirror Image on June 05, 2020, 09:03:46 AM
Gubaidulina also left the Soviet Union to live in Germany, so does this maker her Soviet/German as well?
Hardly, she stemmes from Tatarstan, which was an integral part of Russia (and the Soviet-Union) since the 1550s. She has Tatar ethnic roots herself BTW.
Estonia was simply occupied by Stalin and cannot be compared to Tatarstan or other Republics; the occupation is more comparable to the occupation of Denmark or Norway by Nazi-Germany.
Quote from: Christo on June 05, 2020, 09:13:43 AM
Hardly, she stemmes from Tatarstan, which was an integral part of Russia (and the Soviet-Union) since the 1550s. She has Tatar ethnic roots herself BTW.
Estonia was simply occupied by Stalin and cannot be compared to Tatarstan or other Republics; the occupation is more comparable to the occupation of Denmark or Norway by Nazi-Germany.
Ah yes, I had forgotten about her Tatar roots. Thanks for the correction.
Quote from: CRCulver on June 04, 2020, 08:11:02 PM
People naturally change as they get older and there have been plenty of cases of Soviet dissidents ultimately becoming pro-authoritarian (Solzhenitsyn is perhaps the most infamous).
Based on what I know about Soviet dissidents, a lot of them were
always pro-authoritarian. The fact that they were anti-communist tended to conceal this.
Quote from: relm1 on June 05, 2020, 06:21:08 AM
I think Schnittke is a more complex since he left in the 1970's to live in Germany when he was in his mid 30's. So I could see that as Soviet/German. It does get a bit slippery and is a bit of judgement.
Schnittke didn't move to Germany until about 1990. He had Volga German ancestry and grew up speaking German as well as Russian. I don't want to get into the complexities of Soviet nationality policy, but he probably could have claimed German nationality in the USSR.
Quote from: Archaic Torso of Apollo on June 05, 2020, 09:19:37 AMSchnittke didn't move to Germany until about 1990. He had Volga German ancestry and grew up speaking German as well as Russian. I don't want to get into the complexities of Soviet nationality policy, but he probably could have claimed German nationality in the USSR.
His father was actually a German Jew and his mother was Volga German. So there's not a drop of Russian blood in him.
Quote from: Archaic Torso of Apollo on June 05, 2020, 09:19:37 AM
Based on what I know about Soviet dissidents, a lot of them were always pro-authoritarian. The fact that they were anti-communist tended to conceal this.
I think this is not so clear-cut an issue. Let's take the most (in)famous case:
Solzhenitsyn. Anyone who has attentively read
The Gulag Archipelago knows that for him the Russian Enpire was paradise on earth when compared to USSR. Now, I ask you and anyone else: all things considered, if forced at the point of a gun to choose, where would you have rather lived, in Tsarist Russia or in the USSR? My own answer can be correctly guessed just by looking at my avatar. (And I hasten to add that strictly politically speaking I am an intractable Russophobe).
Quote from: Mirror Image on June 05, 2020, 09:24:01 AM
His father was actually a German Jew and his mother was Volga German. So there's not a drop of Russian blood in him.
How much
Russian blood is needed to be a
Soviet artist?
Quote from: 71 dB on June 05, 2020, 09:33:41 AM
How much Russian blood is needed to be a Soviet artist?
Good question, Poju, very good. Hanns Eisler had no (known) drop of Russian blood in his veins yet he was Soviet through and through. ;D
Quote from: Florestan on June 05, 2020, 09:31:38 AM
I think this is not so clear-cut an issue. Let's take the most (in)famous case: Solzhenitsyn. Anyone who has attentively read The Gulag Archipelago knows that for him the Russian Enpire was paradise on earth when compared to USSR. Now, I ask you and anyone else: all things considered, if forced at the point of a gun to choose, where would you have rather lived, in Tsarist Russia or in the USSR? My own answer can be correctly guessed just by looking at my avatar.
I suppose I should clarify my point. Many dissidents were never liberal or democratic at all. A lot of them were hardcore nationalists of various stripes, dissenting Marxists who thought the Communist Party had strayed from the true path, or promoters of oddball political ideas like Eurasianism. (As an instructive example, consider the career of Georgia's first post-Soviet president, Zviad Gamsakhurdia.) About people like this, the novelist Sergei Dovlatov said "after Communists, I hate anti-Communists the most."
It is mainly Westerners marinated in liberal democratic ideology who assume that, because somebody opposes an oppressive gov't, they must necessarily be a liberal democrat (i.e. "like us"). E.g., they are shocked (shocked, I tell ya!) upon discovering that the heroic political prisoner Aung San Suu Kyi is actually a Burmese nationalist who persecutes Muslims.
Anyway, I don't want to derail this thread so I'll stop there.
Quote(And I hasten to add that strictly politically speaking I am an intractable Russophobe).
Yeah, you've made that pretty clear :D
Quote from: Archaic Torso of Apollo on June 05, 2020, 09:59:52 AM
It is mainly Westerners marinated in liberal democratic ideology who assume that, because somebody opposes an oppressive gov't, they must necessarily be a liberal democrat (i.e. "like us").
Totally agreed. "Arab Spring" immediately comes to mind.
Quote
Yeah, you've made that pretty clear :D
I'd like to clarify it even more: on one hand, I loathe and hate, nay, I abhor Russian politics, be it Tsarist or Soviet; on the other hand, I like and love, nay, I adore Russian music and literature, mostly Tsarist, partially Soviet. :D
When watching Russian movies I am delighted to discover that I do remember quite a lot of my Russian courses I had in school for 4 years. And I can fluently read (as different from fluently understand) Russian.
But you didn't answer my question, though. ;)
Quote from: 71 dB on June 05, 2020, 09:33:41 AM
How much Russian blood is needed to be a Soviet artist?
Zero, but I was merely reiterating a point made by Apollo about Schnittke.
Quote from: Florestan on June 05, 2020, 10:20:02 AM
But you didn't answer my question, though. ;)
I can't answer your question the way it was posed, because it really depends on one's circumstances and status within either of those countries, not to mention the historical periods specified.
Quote from: Archaic Torso of Apollo on June 05, 2020, 11:00:40 AM
I can't answer your question the way it was posed, because it really depends on one's circumstances and status within either of those countries, not to mention the historical periods specified.
Okay, then. Consider your present circumstances and status and transpose them either in Tsarist Russia or in the USSR. What would you rather have? Come on, it's just for fun, man. :D
Quote from: Florestan on June 05, 2020, 11:05:07 AM
Okay, then. Consider your present circumstances and status and transpose them either in Tsarist Russia or in the USSR. What would you rather have? Come on, it's just for fun, man. :D
My present circumstances would probably best suit me for life in the one of the major urban centers of the late-period Russian Empire (say, approx. 1870-1914).
Whew, that was fun.
Quote from: Archaic Torso of Apollo on June 05, 2020, 11:12:30 AM
My present circumstances would probably best suit me for life in the one of the major urban centers of the late-period Russian Empire (say, approx. 1870-1914).
Thanks for your honest answer, which coincidentally or not is also mine. 8)
Quote
Whew, that was fun.
Wasn't it? :D
Quote from: relm1 on June 05, 2020, 06:15:49 AM
Strange response. So Copland, Boulez, and Stockhausen qualify as Soviets now? And Stravinsky qualifies as non-famous? Ok.
According to the definition given by the OP. You left off the crucial part of my sentence "as it doesn't refer to nationality in any way" in order to make this bad faith remark.
And I wasn't addressing "fame" at all. You're the one who illustrated your definition with "Khatchaturian," who also would not qualify as non-famous.
Quote from: Florestan on June 05, 2020, 09:31:38 AM
I think this is not so clear-cut an issue. Let's take the most (in)famous case: Solzhenitsyn. Anyone who has attentively read The Gulag Archipelago knows that for him the Russian Enpire was paradise on earth when compared to USSR. Now, I ask you and anyone else: all things considered, if forced at the point of a gun to choose, where would you have rather lived, in Tsarist Russia or in the USSR?
If all Solzhenitsyn said in his last years was that the Russian Empire was preferable to the Soviet era, that would be one thing. But in his last years he was calling for an authoritarian, Orthodox state centered around the Russian ethnos and in express opposition to the West. The Russian Empire, which was multi-ethnic and had an aristocracy that looked to Europe, did not satisfy the identitarian and spiritual values that he thought should be the basis of post-Soviet Russia.
With regard to Soviet dissidents holding abhorrent beliefs, that started to take off from the 1980s on. Many of the writings on which modern Russian nationalism was based were not widely available to Russians (even samizdat) until the era of perestroika.
As for Sofia Gubaidulina's Tatar roots, this does get mentioned occasionally because it lets Gubaidulina be marketed as an exotic composer. Having vaguely Eastern roots helps one stand out from the crowd. But what doesn't get mentioned is that Gubaidulina's Tatar father preferred to assimilate to Russian and downplay his Tatar origins. Gubaidulina's later interest in non-Western musics is the result of her learning about these things from books and talking with ethnographers, but she didn't actually absorb any of this in her home environment.
One reason Arvo Pärt shouldn't be identified as a "Soviet composer" is that Pärt himself bristles at this. He made a statement a few years ago that he would no longer respond to interview questions that referred to the Soviet era.
Should a 21st century composer who adheres to the soviet values be included in this list? I don't know if any exist but this is more about how difficult it is to define exactly what is a soviet composer.
Easy:
VYACHESLAV OVCHINNIKOV!
https://www.youtube.com/v/0AfNVrVmCGs
https://www.youtube.com/v/ACymze0Max4
https://www.youtube.com/v/D3REhHukPng
https://www.youtube.com/v/YFpj_oMHTaQ
Quote from: relm1 on June 03, 2020, 04:37:40 PM
Aside from Shostakovich, Prokofiev, Rachmaninoff, who is your favorite Soviet composer? I'll define Soviet composer as a composer whose reputation relies prominently between works composed during 1917-1992. So Khachaturian qualifies but Russian born Airat Ichmouratov (b. 1973) would not.
There are many Russian composers that I have a regard for who are not mentioned above. I have no idea which of them are not famous. Even if they are not famous in the west they may still be famous in Russia.
Quote from: relm1 on June 03, 2020, 04:37:40 PM
Aside from Shostakovich, Prokofiev, Rachmaninoff, who is your favorite Soviet composer? I'll define Soviet composer as a composer whose reputation relies prominently between works composed during 1917-1992. So Khachaturian qualifies but Russian born Airat Ichmouratov (b. 1973) would not.
Under those parameters,
Nikolai Medtner.
But Medtner's case closely parallels Rachmaninoff in such that he wanted nothing to do with the Soviets and basically left as soon as it was convenient (1921).
Quote from: Jo498 on June 06, 2020, 05:22:16 AM
But Medtner's case closely parallels Rachmaninoff in such that he wanted nothing to do with the Soviets and basically left as soon as it was convenient (1921).
Yes. Bortkiewicz too.
I believe it's high time that the OP clarify once and for all what he means by "Soviet composers".
Kabalevsky:IMHO his Piano Concertos are major opus
http://kabalevsky.ru/page/language-en-de-fr
Alfred Schnittke, without question. Other favourites include Boris Tishchenko, Aram Khachaturian, Gavriil Popov. I own a couple recordings of Weinberg's music, but I have yet to have that huge eureka moment with his music.
Quote from: Maestro267 on June 12, 2020, 11:14:00 AM
Alfred Schnittke, without question. Other favourites include Boris Tishchenko, Aram Khachaturian, Gavriil Popov. I own a couple recordings of Weinberg's music, but I have yet to have that huge eureka moment with his music.
Just out of curiosity, what have you heard of Weinberg's? Interesting choice with Tishchenko, I've got to get back into his music as I still have many of those Northern Flowers recordings that I haven't even listened to yet. I never could get into Khachaturian and I've heard a lot music from him through the years.
I remember there was a compilation of rare Soviet symphonies that included these but I'm not familiar with them. Any good?
Rostislav BOIKO (1931-) No 2
Revol BUNIN (1924-1976) No 6
Revaz GABICHVADZE (1913-) for strings, piano & timps
Boris PARSADANIAN (1925-) No 2
Arif MELIKOV (1923-) No 2
Quote from: relm1 on June 13, 2020, 06:12:35 AM
I remember there was a compilation of rare Soviet symphonies that included these but I'm not familiar with them. Any good?
Rostislav BOIKO (1931-) No 2
Revol BUNIN (1924-1976) No 6
Revaz GABICHVADZE (1913-) for strings, piano & timps
Boris PARSADANIAN (1925-) No 2
Arif MELIKOV (1923-) No 2
I've got those works except the Gabichvadze, and I guess they are all on you-tube. But I don't remember the exact ongoings in them. However, as far as I remember, they are all very decent composers, Melikov and Parsadanian being the most ambitious, Boiko adhering to an effective, at times perhaps too, popular style. And though a symphonist, Bunin is perhaps better known for the Violin Concerto, recorded by Kogan.
Quote from: relm1 on June 13, 2020, 06:12:35 AM
Boris PARSADANIAN (1925-)
That's a funny "The king of a fairytale" name. ;D "Parsa" means
asparagus in Finnish.
Speaking of
SERGE PROTOPOPOV...
I am in contact with a young pianist from Belgium named
Valere Burnon who is a great promoter of
Protopopov's music. Through his teacher - and I do not yet know how the man did this - he has come across an Opus 32
Five Preludes by
Protopopov.
Those who know only the article on Wikipedia or the few other sources may be surprised by that opus number, as the impression is given that the composer gave up composing after c. 1930 and only about a dozen works remained extant.
Anyway,
Valere Burnon wrote to me this morning that he will soon ( "am Ende des Monats") be able to record a CD with those preludes and other works by
Prokofiev and
Debussy.
Quote from: 71 dB on June 13, 2020, 07:39:13 AM
That's a funny "The king of a fairytale" name. ;D "Parsa" means asparagus in Finnish.
Could that "Parsa" be related to the word "Parsnip" (a root vegetable) in English?
Quote from: Cato on June 13, 2020, 07:58:01 AM
Could that "Parsa" be related to the word "Parsnip" (a root vegetable) in English?
A lot of food related words in Finnish language seems to be of Russian origin (спаржа in this case) which is very close to "parsa" if you consider the first "s" missing as Finnish words rarely start "sp..." (Spain =>
Espanja, but spatial =>
spatiaalinen)
Parsnip is
palsternakka in Finnish. ;D
Quote from: 71 dB on June 13, 2020, 11:27:56 AM
Parsnip is palsternakka in Finnish. ;D
Wow! In Romanian it's
păstârnac which, if you ignore the diacritics, looks very similar. :D
I just checked its etymology and it's closely related to
Hungarian paszternák,
Serbo-Croatian pastrank and
German pastinak.
Fascinating stuff, at least or me.
Quote from: Mirror Image on June 12, 2020, 11:48:58 AM
Just out of curiosity, what have you heard of Weinberg's?
Symphonies Nos. 8, 12, 17 & 18. I know full well I have a long way to go with most of these composers I mentioned.
Quote from: Maestro267 on June 13, 2020, 12:07:30 PM
Symphonies Nos. 8, 12, 17 & 18. I know full well I have a long way to go with most of these composers I mentioned.
Very nice. May I suggest check out the 3rd, 4th, 5th and 6th symphonies next. I think you'll really enjoy these.
Quote from: Florestan on June 13, 2020, 11:38:04 AM
Wow! In Romanian it's păstârnac which, if you ignore the diacritics, looks very similar. :D
I just checked its etymology and it's closely related to Hungarian paszternák, Serbo-Croatian pastrank and German pastinak.
Fascinating stuff, at least or me.
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/67/Leonid_Pasternak_-_Boris_and_Alexander.jpg/1280px-Leonid_Pasternak_-_Boris_and_Alexander.jpg)
There's also
Boris, painted with his brother
Alex here by their father,
Leonid Pasternak.
Quotehttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pastinaca
The etymology of the generic name Pastinaca is not known with certainty. The name may be derived from the Latin word pastino (or pastinare), meaning "to prepare the ground for planting of the vine" (or more simply, "to dig") or the Latin word pastus, meaning "food", liberally translated as "Earth-food.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parsnip#History
Like carrots, parsnips are native to Eurasia and have been eaten there since ancient times. Zohary and Hopf note that the archaeological evidence for the cultivation of the parsnip is "still rather limited", and that Greek and Roman literary sources are a major source about its early use.[5] They warn that "there are some difficulties in distinguishing between parsnip and carrot (which, in Roman times, were white or purple) in classical writings since both vegetables seem to have been sometimes called pastinaca, yet each vegetable appears to be well under cultivation in Roman times"
Quote from: Cato on June 13, 2020, 07:58:01 AM
Could that "Parsa" be related to the word "Parsnip" (a root vegetable) in English?
According to the Institute for the Languages of Finland (https://www.kotus.fi/nyt/kysymyksia_ja_vastauksia/sanojen_alkuperasta/parsa), it is derived from asparagus, via Italian
sparagio and Russian
spárža.
Thread duty:
Schnittke and
Weinberg are my favourite composers who worked in Soviet Russia, after the big two.
Quote from: Florestan on June 13, 2020, 11:38:04 AM
Wow! In Romanian it's păstârnac which, if you ignore the diacritics, looks very similar. :D
I just checked its etymology and it's closely related to Hungarian paszternák, Serbo-Croatian pastrank and German pastinak.
Fascinating stuff, at least or me.
Yeah, that is fascinating! Pretty damn close. $:)
Quote from: Mirror Image on June 13, 2020, 12:18:42 PM
Very nice. May I suggest check out the 3rd, 4th, 5th and 6th symphonies next. I think you'll really enjoy these.
Considering how much I like Weinberg's Symphonies 2, 10, 12, 19, 20 and 21, the ones I own and know it's almost scary to think I haven't even heard the "good stuff" yet. ??? ;D
I fear I will be disappointed after all this hype especially for the 5th...
Many thanks for the linguistic discussion on "parsnip," etc.
A performance of the Protopopov Fifth Prelude from the Opus 32 by Valere Burnon:
https://www.youtube.com/v/a2lUACWny6A
Quote from: 71 dB on June 13, 2020, 12:40:19 PM
Considering how much I like Weinberg's Symphonies 2, 10, 12, 19, 20 and 21, the ones I own and know it's almost scary to think I haven't even heard the "good stuff" yet. ??? ;D
I fear I will be disappointed after all this hype especially for the 5th...
It seems like you know the later ones better than I do. Those symphonies I mentioned previously are the ones I know really well.
Quote from: Mirror Image on June 13, 2020, 02:03:20 PM
It seems like you know the later ones better than I do. Those symphonies I mentioned previously are the ones I know really well.
I wouldn't say I know any of his Symphonies
well. I am still pretty "new" to the composer despite of having discovered him about 5 years ago. That's because I haven't been heavily into classical music, but this year I have been more active and listening also some Weinberg. That's one reason why I am not "hoarding" Weinberg CDs. I haven't listened to those I already have nearly enough!
Also, I have noticed Weinberg's music is "liquid" in the sense that it sounds really good when I listen to it *, but I don't remember much afterworths so it's diffcult to learn the pieces. I just know that when I listen to it I like it. 0:) That's why it's pretty impossible for me to rank the 6 Symphonies I have. I have to listen to them much more. I have over a dozen Weinberg CDs most of it chamber music.
* To me Weinberg isn't so much about memorable melodies or themes, but excellent use of dissonance as "sonic special effects" over otherwise consonant music. That creates for me the great combination of "pleasantness" from consonance and excitement from dissonance.
I have a simple test to evaluate the worth (to me) of "unknown" Soviet composers. Invariably I find the pieces interesting, but are they interesting enough to re-listen repeatedly or do they sit like a trophy on my shelves. Eshpai and the conductor/composer Konstantin Ivanov are most worthwhile and bare repeated listening. But the two works above all the others is Bunin's 8th Symphony.
(https://i.imgur.com/fjgz9v4.jpg)
Even better the 24 Preludes for Piano by Tsintsadze played by Gorelashvili from 1971. Which is the one I treasure the most. There is a noisy transfer on YT.
(https://i.imgur.com/DeRYM5u.jpg)
I would have to say Lydia Auster and Eduard Tubin
(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/81rwKKVTxRL._SS500_.jpg)
Well, based on the number of CDs I own, then it has to be Veinberg, hands down. As mentioned, his music is not necessarily "memorable" in the sense that you'd remember anything specific in a memorable way, but the overall feel is just fantastic.
The works that I do remember having a strong impact are: Symphonies 5, 10, Cello Sonatas, and the Trumpet Concerto.
Quote from: 71 dB on June 13, 2020, 12:40:19 PM
Considering how much I like Weinberg's Symphonies 2, 10, 12, 19, 20 and 21, the ones I own and know it's almost scary to think I haven't even heard the "good stuff" yet. ??? ;D
I fear I will be disappointed after all this hype especially for the 5th...
Maybe, but try to hear the Kondrashin recording.
Quote from: vandermolen on June 15, 2020, 06:04:45 AM
Maybe, but try to hear the Kondrashin recording.
+1 I'd say 71 dB hasn't heard the 5th until he's heard Kondrashin.
Quote from: vandermolen on June 15, 2020, 06:04:45 AM
Maybe, but try to hear the Kondrashin recording.
Can't find it in Spotify!!
BUT youtube seems to have i! :)
For anyone interested, it is on you-tube.
Quote from: Mirror Image on June 13, 2020, 12:18:42 PM
Very nice. May I suggest check out the 3rd, 4th, 5th and 6th symphonies next. I think you'll really enjoy these.
+1 Weinberg's earlier symphonies are more accessible.
Quote from: kyjo on June 16, 2020, 08:59:43 AM
+1 Weinberg's earlier symphonies are more accessible.
Having heard Weinberg's early (2 & 5), middle (10 & 12) and late (19-21) Symphonies I would say there has not been accessibility problems for me with any of them! What I am hearing is in the early Symphonies Weinberg's own style isn't that strong yet, for example the 5th felt a bit "Mahlerian" to my ears while the later Symphonies have perhaps more distinctive "Weinberg" -feel to them. I don't know if this is what makes Weinberg's earlier symphonies more accessible to some people?
Quote from: Jo498 on June 06, 2020, 05:22:16 AM
But Medtner's case closely parallels Rachmaninoff in such that he wanted nothing to do with the Soviets and basically left as soon as it was convenient (1921).
True, but, regarding this thread, irrelevant. By the parameters set by the OP, both
Rachmaninov* and
Medtner are clearly included among the possible options.
*(and Rachmaninov is explicitly excluded by the OP because he's too famous) ;)
Quote from: 71 dB on June 16, 2020, 09:26:46 AM
Having heard Weinberg's early (2 & 5), middle (10 & 12) and late (19-21) Symphonies I would say there has not been accessibility problems for me with any of them! What I am hearing is in the early Symphonies Weinberg's own style isn't that strong yet, for example the 5th felt a bit "Mahlerian" to my ears while the later Symphonies have perhaps more distinctive "Weinberg" -feel to them. I don't know if this is what makes Weinberg's earlier symphonies more accessible to some people?
Weinberg's own style isn't that strong yet? The slow movement of the 5th is incredibly powerful and moved me to tears. Have you heard Kondrashin's performance of the 5th? If you haven't, then you don't know this symphony at all.
Quote from: Mirror Image on June 16, 2020, 09:50:26 AM
Weinberg's own style isn't that strong yet? The slow movement of the 5th is incredibly powerful and moved me to tears. Have you heard Kondrashin's performance of the 5th? If you haven't, then you don't know this symphony at all.
Yes. I have listened to IT alright. :D
Quote from: Mirror Image on June 16, 2020, 05:14:08 PM
???
As I said, it's not on Spotify, but it is on Youtube. I listened to it on Monday.
The recorded sound is what it is and the performance is good. Symphony itself is good. Gave me Mahlerian vibes for some reason.
Quote from: 71 dB on June 16, 2020, 06:27:07 PM
As I said, it's not on Spotify, but it is on Youtube. I listened to it on Monday.
The recorded sound is what it is and the performance is good. Symphony itself is good. Gave me Mahlerian vibes for some reason.
Ah okay. 8) Very good, 71 dB.
(https://i.postimg.cc/1RKyfZmW/618-Wj-XNT3-L-SX300-QL70-ML2.jpg) (https://postimages.org/) (https://postimages.org/)
Quote from: geralmar on July 10, 2020, 08:09:21 PM
(https://i.postimg.cc/1RKyfZmW/618-Wj-XNT3-L-SX300-QL70-ML2.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
(https://postimages.org/)
Kalinnikov nor Rimsky-Korsakov were Soviet Era composers.
Quote from: Irons on June 14, 2020, 01:07:36 AM
I have a simple test to evaluate the worth (to me) of "unknown" Soviet composers. Invariably I find the pieces interesting, but are they interesting enough to re-listen repeatedly or do they sit like a trophy on my shelves. Eshpai and the conductor/composer Konstantin Ivanov are most worthwhile and bare repeated listening. But the two works above all the others is Bunin's 8th Symphony.
(https://i.imgur.com/fjgz9v4.jpg)
Even better the 24 Preludes for Piano by Tsintsadze played by Gorelashvili from 1971. Which is the one I treasure the most. There is a noisy transfer on YT.
(https://i.imgur.com/DeRYM5u.jpg)
I wish some enterprising label would record more of Bunin's music. I loved his 6th symphony (dedicated to Shostakovich), but that's all I've heard.
Quote from: Mirror Image on June 04, 2020, 06:07:08 AM
You should definitely checkout Myaskovsky, Andrei. And while you're at it, Weinberg as well.
+1
My recommendations, for starters, are;
Miaskovsky/Myaskovsky symphonies 21,6,17,27,24,3 + Cello Concerto + Cello Sonata No.2 = SQ 13
Weinberg Symphony 5, Piano Quintet
Quote from: vandermolen on July 10, 2020, 09:53:15 PM
+1
My recommendations, for starters, are;
Miaskovsky/Myaskovsky symphonies 21,6,17,27,24,3 + Cello Concerto + Cello Sonata No.2 = SQ 13
Weinberg Symphony 5, Piano Quintet
That's A LOT of Myaskovsky 'for starters', Jeffrey. ;) ;D Good recommendations for the Weinberg, but I would also perhaps suggest the 3rd and 6th symphonies and the
Cello Concerto.
Quote from: Mirror Image on July 10, 2020, 08:48:51 PM
Kalinnikov nor Rimsky-Korsakov were Soviet Era composers.
True. They didn't even live long enough to witness the establishment of the USSR. Neither were
Rachmaninoff, Medtner or
Bortkiewicz Soviet composers --- they would have nothing to do with Bolsheviks, Soviets and the USSR; actually, they left their homeland never to return precisely because of Bolsheviks, Soviets and the USSR.
Quote from: Florestan on July 12, 2020, 09:01:10 AM
True. They didn't even live long enough to witness the establishment of the USSR. Neither were Rachmaninoff, Medtner or Bortkiewicz Soviet composers --- they would have nothing to do with Bolsheviks, Soviets and the USSR; actually, they left their homeland never to return precisely because of Bolsheviks, Soviets and the USSR.
Yep and I find it curious that Rachmaninov was included in the OP's initial post.
While I do not think of Rachmaninov as a Soviet composer at all, when one is not thinking properly it's easy to make mistakes like that. Rachmaninov was born in Russia (or whatever it was called when he was born), and his life overlapped that of the USSR by some 26 years or so.
Quote from: Mirror Image on July 12, 2020, 09:24:34 AM
Yep and I find it curious that Rachmaninov was included in the OP's initial post.
I think he's a grey area. Wouldn't you agree Prokofiev was a Soviet composer? Was the thing that made him a Soviet that he returned to Russia despite decades in the West? Do you consider Stravinsky a Soviet composer because I think he left Russia in 1919 to live in France and then US in 1957. It's a grey area so feel free to disagree with my composer list and add whoever you want or take out whoever I wanted.
Quote from: Maestro267 on July 13, 2020, 03:45:08 AM
While I do not think of Rachmaninov as a Soviet composer at all, when one is not thinking properly it's easy to make mistakes like that. Rachmaninov was born in Russia (or whatever it was called when he was born), and his life overlapped that of the USSR by some 26 years or so.
Read Andrei's post (#104). He explains
why Rachmaninov wasn't a Soviet composer and relm1 seems to be believe that he was, which is odd. Also, Prokofiev was a Russian
and Soviet composer having been born there, but also because he came back and started writing there under that oppressive system. Stravinsky was a Russian composer, but not a Soviet one. His history is like Rachmaninov in that he remained in exile.
Quote from: relm1 on July 13, 2020, 06:07:13 AM
I think he's a grey area. Wouldn't you agree Prokofiev was a Soviet composer? Was the thing that made him a Soviet that he returned to Russia despite decades in the West? Do you consider Stravinsky a Soviet composer because I think he left Russia in 1919 to live in France and then US in 1957. It's a grey area so feel free to disagree with my composer list and add whoever you want or take out whoever I wanted.
It's not a 'grey area' at all. It's quite clear that Rachmaninov and Stravinsky weren't Soviet composers. To me, a Soviet composer is one that wrote music under that government's rule and lived/worked in that environment. Rachmaninov and Stravinsky were Russian composers but not Soviet ones.
Ustvolskaya or Gubaidulina, probably.
Quote from: Mirror Image on July 13, 2020, 06:33:15 AM
It's not a 'grey area' at all. It's quite clear that Rachmaninov and Stravinsky weren't Soviet composers. To me, a Soviet composer is one that wrote music under that government's rule and lived/worked in that environment. Rachmaninov and Stravinsky were Russian composers but not Soviet ones.
Since you are the definitive source, what about Schnittke?
Quote from: relm1 on July 14, 2020, 06:05:47 AM
Since you are the definitive source, what about Schnittke?
Schnittke is most definitely a Soviet composer. He was born and raised in the Soviet Union. He studied at the Moscow Conservatory and he didn't move to Germany until 1990. A similar path Gubaidulina took in her own career. As for me being a 'definitive source'...ummm...no, I'm not, but my definition of a Soviet composer isn't as all-inclusive as your own.
Quote from: Mirror Image on July 11, 2020, 10:27:00 AM
That's A LOT of Myaskovsky 'for starters', Jeffrey. ;) ;D Good recommendations for the Weinberg, but I would also perhaps suggest the 3rd and 6th symphonies and the Cello Concerto.
I agree with your additional Weinberg choices John. I'd also suggest Symphony No.1.
Quote from: vandermolen on July 14, 2020, 06:52:45 AM
I agree with your additional Weinberg choices John. I'd also suggest Symphony No.1.
Cheers, Jeffrey. 8)
I thought this was an excellent recording very much worth exploring. I was surprised how much the Sergei Slonimsky sounded like a mix of Ralph Vaughan Williams and Shostakovich. All the works were fabulous!
(https://d1iiivw74516uk.cloudfront.net/eyJidWNrZXQiOiJwcmVzdG8tY292ZXItaW1hZ2VzIiwia2V5IjoiODYxOTI5NC4xLmpwZyIsImVkaXRzIjp7InJlc2l6ZSI6eyJ3aWR0aCI6OTAwfSwianBlZyI6eyJxdWFsaXR5Ijo2NX0sInRvRm9ybWF0IjoianBlZyJ9LCJ0aW1lc3RhbXAiOjE1NjM3MzU2MTd9)
Quote from: relm1 on July 29, 2020, 05:01:48 PMI thought this was an excellent recording very much worth exploring. I was surprised how much the Sergei Slonimsky sounded like a mix of Ralph Vaughan Williams and Shostakovich. All the works were fabulous!
On composition art by Slonimsky
(https://compozitor.spb.ru/upload/iblock/c70/c704f3aae3ea6f4830d49ab8eced99a1.jpg)
Quote from: vandermolen on July 14, 2020, 06:52:45 AMI agree with your additional Weinberg choices John. I'd also suggest Symphony No.1.
Fact is,
Jeffrey, one cannot go wrong with
Weinberg!