For symphony cycles, I like to include Symphonic Dances and The Bells. Either way, what are your favorites? What are some good ones?
Quote from: Fritz Kobus on April 11, 2021, 02:27:34 PM
For symphony cycles, I like to include Symphonic Dances and The Bells. Either way, what are your favorites? What are some good ones?
The DECCA/London set with conductor
Vladimir Ashkenazy also offers
Isle of the Dead.
If you can find a set with
Eugene Ormandy and
The Philadelphia Orchestra, you will not regret those performances!
Quote from: Fritz Kobus on April 11, 2021, 02:27:34 PM
For symphony cycles, I like to include Symphonic Dances and The Bells. Either way, what are your favorites? What are some good ones?
The Ashkenazy set on Decca is very good.
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/61pn1sIb8sL._SX522_.jpg)
Eloquence Classics had reissued all of the symphonies conducted by Edo de Waart three years ago ...
It really deserves to be taken into consideration:
https://www.eloquenceclassics.com/releases/rachmaninov-mussorgsky-prokofiev-orchestral-works/ (https://www.eloquenceclassics.com/releases/rachmaninov-mussorgsky-prokofiev-orchestral-works/)
(https://www.eloquenceclassics.com/files/2018/07/4828981_RachmaninovProkofievMussorgsky_DeWaart.jpg) (https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/61xORFpOAUL._SL1200_.jpg)
I hadn't considered de Waart.
I currently have
Anissimov
Ashkenzxy
Dutoit
Kogan
Ormandy
Rozhdestvensky
Slatkin (St. Louis)
Quote from: Cato on April 11, 2021, 02:47:25 PM
The DECCA/London set with conductor Vladimir Ashkenazy also offers Isle of the Dead.
If you can find a set with Eugene Ormandy and The Philadelphia Orchestra, you will not regret those performances!
These would be my choices as well + the new DGG recording of No.1 (Nézet-Séguin/Philadelphia Orch.) and Previn's LSO No.3
Quote from: vandermolen on April 11, 2021, 11:07:39 PM
These would be my choices as well + the new DGG recording of No.1 (Nézet-Séguin) and Previn's No.3
There was an exceptionally glowing review recently on MusicWeb for the new set from Alexander Sladkovsky and his Tartarstan SO on Sony. His Shostakovich was really fine but the problem with this Rach is it seems to be download only (perhaps for the time-being only). Also, no "Bells" as far as I recall. I recently downlaoded the BIS/Shui/Singapore SO set as Studio Masters - they sound fantastic but again no "Bells".
Surprised no mention of Petrenko yet but he's another Bell-less collection!
For Symphony 2, Litton on Bis is one of the best of recent years. I'm still very fond of the Temirkanov on EMI (he also did it for RCA).
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/81o0QEQ1vJL._SX522_.jpg)
Quote from: Daverz on April 11, 2021, 11:28:08 PM
For Symphony 2, Litton on Bis is one of the best of recent years. I'm still very fond of the Temirkanov on EMI (he also did it for RCA).
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/81o0QEQ1vJL._SX522_.jpg)
Litton's cycle with the LPO (again no Bells) on Virgin is very good. One of the few conductors to use all (nearly all?) the percussion Rachmaninov wrote in Symphony 1. Not heard this BIS remake
Quote from: Daverz on April 11, 2021, 11:28:08 PM
For Symphony 2, Litton on Bis is one of the best of recent years. I'm still very fond of the Temirkanov on EMI (he also did it for RCA).
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/81o0QEQ1vJL._SX522_.jpg)
Great cover art too!
I agree that every self-respecting cycle should include 'The Bells' and 'The Isle of the Dead' as well.
I've been comparing a bunch of recordings of the 2nd symphony recently and was very surprised by the big differences between them, say in the presented orchestral sound picture, the varied degree of integration of instrumental groups, and also just the phrasing, for example in the scherzo and the finale.
Would be curious to hear any notes you made, Turner.
Quote from: Daverz on April 11, 2021, 11:28:08 PM
For Symphony 2, Litton on Bis is one of the best of recent years. I'm still very fond of the Temirkanov on EMI (he also did it for RCA).
I get to see Litton do this piece live next spring. Pretty excited. (An all-warhorse program with Stephen Hough joining for Tchaikovsky 1.)
I like Gergiev / LSO Live, too. I especially like his Symphonic Dances.
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/71Ud412sMWL._AC_SL1200_.jpg)
I have also recently acquired Rattle / LSO Live Symphony No.2 - haven't yet formed a view on it though. Perhaps LSO should make their minds up about the spelling ...
(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/81R4X+jKjTL._SS500_.jpg)
I have Litton Symphony 3 and Dances.
I have Zinman Symphonies 2, 3 and Dances. Did he record symphony 1?
Isle of the Dead was my intro to Rachmaninoff in the 1970s. Heard it on the radio and ran out and bought an LP of it.
Now listening to the de Waart 2 from the Rotterdam cycle. It's a very light, fleet, fast, dancing vision of the music. This is not really fleet music ordinarily - it can be heavy or Hollywoody or grandiose - which makes this quite an interesting alternative. I'll be honest, at places like the first movement climax, I do prefer the brass section to blast away at higher volume and with bigger impact. But I have a ton of respect for how transparent and clear this makes Rachmaninov's orchestration sound. The music sounds more carefully written and less melodramatic than usual. Although it downplays the biggest climaxes and tunes, the result definitely puts the composer's skill and craft in a good light.
The first movement's final chord includes the incorrect timpani thwack.
Professional conductors and musicians so why can't they get it right. :blank:
There's also a missing cymbal crash in the second movement. Hmmmm.
Thank you for your feedback, Brian :)
These "mistakes" may correspond to differences depending on the edition which is used because the history of this score has evolved a lot over time ... I am thinking in particular of the cuts.
But probably there are mistakes, too... ::)
Quote from: mabuse on April 12, 2021, 03:35:25 PM
Thank you for your feedback, Brian :)
These "mistakes" may correspond to differences depending on the edition which is used because the history of this score has evolved a lot over time ... I am thinking in particular of the cuts.
But probably there are mistakes, too... ::)
Yes, cuts made in and for the vinyl era, so that the work would fit on two sides, rather than three.
Quote from: Cato on April 12, 2021, 04:33:11 PM
Yes, cuts made in and for the vinyl era, so that the work would fit on two sides, rather than three.
Sanderling/Philharmonia on the Apex series uses almost 27 minutes for the 1st movement of the 2nd Symphony, most recordings up to 10 minutes less. Gergiev/LSO close to 23 minutes.
Quote from: MusicTurner on April 12, 2021, 08:54:26 PM
Sanderling/Philharmonia on the Apex series uses almost 27 minutes for the 1st movement of the 2nd Symphony, most recordings up to 10 minutes less. Gergiev/LSO close to 23 minutes.
I don't know the Sanderling recording but that will (almost certainly) be because he takes the exposition repeat which a lot of conductors don't. Rach 2 is just about the last big symphony to be written with this kind of optional repeat. Personally, if the composer wrote it, I think you should observe it.
On a tangent - fairly recently I was surprised and impressed by this Rach 3;
(https://img.discogs.com/zAoPoraeznDlengcXr690AWFKHw=/fit-in/600x598/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():quality(90)/discogs-images/R-8346819-1541782309-6757.jpeg.jpg)
available in various incarnations but very exciting and Mackerras getting the RLPO strings to use portamenti (slides between notes) to gloriously Romantic effect......
Quote from: Roasted Swan on April 12, 2021, 11:30:12 PM
I don't know the Sanderling recording but that will (almost certainly) be because he takes the exposition repeat which a lot of conductors don't. Rach 2 is just about the last big symphony to be written with this kind of optional repeat. Personally, if the composer wrote it, I think you should observe it.
On a tangent - fairly recently I was surprised and impressed by this Rach 3;
(https://img.discogs.com/zAoPoraeznDlengcXr690AWFKHw=/fit-in/600x598/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():quality(90)/discogs-images/R-8346819-1541782309-6757.jpeg.jpg)
available in various incarnations but very exciting and Mackerras getting the RLPO strings to use portamenti (slides between notes) to gloriously Romantic effect......
Very much agree about Mackerras - who was a fine conductor.
This thread inspired me to listen to the Gergiev cycle, I'm not done yet with it but some of his tempo choices are not my favorite. Too slow or too fast, never just right. I then listened to the Litton 2nd on BIS. Good, and I like it better than Gergiev, but not great.
My favorite second is Previn, and my favorite third is Stokowski. I don't have a favorite first but I really like the symphony.
Quote from: DavidW on April 13, 2021, 06:12:34 AM
This thread inspired me to listen to the Gergiev cycle, I'm not done yet with it but some of his tempo choices are not my favorite. Too slow or too fast, never just right. I then listened to the Litton 2nd on BIS. Good, and I like it better than Gergiev, but not great.
My favorite second is Previn, .
Previn recorded it 3 times (RCA (with cuts), EMI and Telarc).
Quote from: Daverz on April 13, 2021, 04:01:20 PM
Previn recorded it 3 times (RCA (with cuts), EMI and Telarc).
Previn Telarc is the one I grew up with, but Previn EMI is my favorite now for being just as rich and a tiny bit faster. The cut versions are unacceptable to me.
Quote from: Daverz on April 13, 2021, 04:01:20 PM
Previn recorded it 3 times (RCA (with cuts), EMI and Telarc).
Didn't know that. EMI is the only one I listen to.
Well, TTT after 4 years - my only Rach symphony set is the Ashkenazy shown below which I enjoy - but just listened to the Hurwitz review at the bottom and he raved about Leonard Slatkin with the Detroit Symphony - now streaming on Spotify with headphones - the physical discs seem available at more than I want to pay, however, Prestomusic has an offer for the FLAC/WAV DL (https://www.prestomusic.com/classical/products/9454385--rachmaninov-complete-symphonies-isle-of-the-dead-symphonic-dances) at $20 USD - tempted but maybe streaming is fine? Anyone heard these Slatkin recordings? Dave
(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/61pn1sIb8sL._SL1200_.jpg) (https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/61zFsgN6qtL._SL1500_.jpg)
Quote from: SonicMan46 on June 08, 2025, 10:05:21 AMWell, TTT after 4 years - my only Rach symphony set is the Ashkenazy shown below which I enjoy - but just listened to the Hurwitz review at the bottom and he raved about Leonard Slatkin with the Detroit Symphony - now streaming on Spotify with headphones - the physical discs seem available at more than I want to pay, however, Prestomusic has an offer for the FLAC/WAV DL (https://www.prestomusic.com/classical/products/9454385--rachmaninov-complete-symphonies-isle-of-the-dead-symphonic-dances) at $20 USD - tempted but maybe streaming is fine? Anyone heard these Slatkin recordings? Dave
(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/61pn1sIb8sL._SL1200_.jpg) (https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/61zFsgN6qtL._SL1500_.jpg)
Slatkin is fine, but I prefer Previn.
If you do want the Slatkin, the original "Vox Box" is available from Amazon for under $25
(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/71T0qRbgNpL._UF1000,1000_QL80_FMwebp_.jpg)
Quote from: JBS on June 08, 2025, 10:16:20 AMSlatkin is fine, but I prefer Previn.
If you do want the Slatkin, the original "Vox Box" is available from Amazon for under $25
(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/71T0qRbgNpL._UF1000,1000_QL80_FMwebp_.jpg)
Hurwitz has a disproportionate regard for Slatkin. He's good, often more than good but his Rachmaninov is simply
not the most distinguished, most individual there is. In all round terms Ashkenazy/Concertgebouw is hard to beat - and available these days dirt cheap. Previn is let down by a very weak Symphony 1 but there are many fine versions - individual and sets. I still love the fire and brimstone of the old Soviet sets by the likes of Svetlanov or Rozhdestvensky. Folk got very excited by Petrenko in Liverpool but I wasn't that fussed
My favourite three would be;
No.1 Svetlanov/USSR SO
No.2 Rozhdestvensky/LSO
No.3 Mackerras/RLPO (coupled with a great Symphonic Dances)
For a set (different orchestras but same conductor) I like Walter Weller on Decca if not the Ashkenazy...
PS. Litton on Virgin with the RPO was rather good too I thought......
Quote from: Roasted Swan on June 08, 2025, 10:53:02 AMHurwitz has a disproportionate regard for Slatkin. He's good, often more than good but his Rachmaninov is simply not the most distinguished, most individual there is. In all round terms Ashkenazy/Concertgebouw is hard to beat - and available these days dirt cheap. Previn is let down by a very weak Symphony 1 but there are many fine versions - individual and sets. I still love the fire and brimstone of the old Soviet sets by the likes of Svetlanov or Rozhdestvensky. Folk got very excited by Petrenko in Liverpool but I wasn't that fussed
My favourite three would be;
No.1 Svetlanov/USSR SO
No.2 Rozhdestvensky/LSO
No.3 Mackerras/RLPO (coupled with a great Symphonic Dances)
For a set (different orchestras but same conductor) I like Walter Weller on Decca if not the Ashkenazy...
PS. Litton on Virgin with the RPO was rather good too I thought......
Hurwitz is very biased towards American conductors, especially Slatkin (whom I admire). He can be quite dismissive of 'Sir Adrian Boult' etc.
Quote from: vandermolen on June 08, 2025, 11:04:26 AMHurwitz is very biased towards American conductors, especially Slatkin (whom I admire). He can be quite dismissive of 'Sir Adrian Boult' etc.
The anti-Gramophone effect?
Thanks All for the comments on Slatkin - BTW, the Vox box is the the St. Louis Symphony - the Naxos features the Detroit recordings - Jerry Dubins and Fanfare (attachment) have the same sentiments, i.e. NOT the stellar performance promoted by Hurwitz - I listened to about half of the 3-disc set on Spotify this afternoon and was not overwhelmed - my Ashkenazy box will do just fine. Dave
Quote from: vandermolen on June 08, 2025, 11:04:26 AMHurwitz is very biased towards American conductors, especially Slatkin (whom I admire). He can be quite dismissive of 'Sir Adrian Boult' etc.
To be fair Boult (probably again the effect of recording technology catching up rather late - same fate that befell Walter and Klemperer) sounds rather undistinguished and even somewhat dull in all the music I've heard of him. A bit of a shame. Of course I don't really listen to much British orchestral music so perhaps he remained vital in that repertoire till the end.
Quote from: vandermolen on June 08, 2025, 11:04:26 AMHurwitz is very biased towards American conductors, especially Slatkin (whom I admire). He can be quite dismissive of 'Sir Adrian Boult' etc.
He is good friends with Slatkin, so that's why he always speaks so highly of him.
@SonicMan46 My favorites are Previn for the 2nd and Stokowski for the 3rd. Despite loving it, there is another great 3rd that I'm sad I can't quite put my finger on. :-X As for the 1st and the symphonic poems, you already have the box for that.
Everything that Ormandy and Reiner did is worth listening to.
If you wanted something modern, I like Nézet-Séguin, who is atmospheric in the symphonies and driven in the concertos (that is with Trifonov).
(https://images.universal-music.de/img/assets/572/572890/1/2048/yannick-nezet-seguin-rachmaninoff-symphonies-2-3-isle-of-the-dead.jpg)
Quote from: DavidW on June 09, 2025, 02:02:50 PM@SonicMan46 My favorites are Previn for the 2nd and Stokowski for the 3rd. Despite loving it, there is another great 3rd that I'm sad I can't quite put my finger on. :-X As for the 1st and the symphonic poems, you already have the box for that.
Everything that Ormandy and Reiner did is worth listening to.
If you wanted something modern, I like Nézet-Séguin, who is atmospheric in the symphonies and driven in the concertos (that is with Trifonov).
(https://images.universal-music.de/img/assets/572/572890/1/2048/yannick-nezet-seguin-rachmaninoff-symphonies-2-3-isle-of-the-dead.jpg)
Thanks
David - the Ashkenazy performance of the first is considered one of the best, so getting another version of Nos. 2 & 3 would be nice - assume these are not 'live' performances w/ audience distractions? Thanks again - Dave
Quote from: SonicMan46 on June 09, 2025, 02:19:56 PMThanks David - the Ashkenazy performance of the first is considered one of the best, so getting another version of Nos. 2 & 3 would be nice - assume these are not 'live' performances w/ audience distractions? Thanks again - Dave
The first symphony and the concertos are live. I didn't recall a symphony of coughs in any of the recordings, but if you have Spotify, you can listen for yourself.
Quote from: vandermolen on June 08, 2025, 11:04:26 AMHurwitz is very biased towards American conductors, especially Slatkin (whom I admire). He can be quite dismissive of 'Sir Adrian Boult' etc.
I don't think it's fair to say Hurwitz is dismissive of Boult. Here's the description of his "Top 10 Boult recordings" video:
QuoteEnglish conductor Adrian Boult wasn't just a passionately devoted advocate of 20th-century British music; he was one of the first conductors whose reputation did not depend on his conducting of the German standard repertoire. In this preview of the ClassicsToday.com survey of his ten greatest recordings (ad free, with sound samples), we explore his remarkable career in some detail.
He's also covered a lot of Boult's Decca, EMI and Lyrita recordings in separate videos. If not much non-British repertoire is covered, I think that's more the fault of the record labels Boult worked with.
https://www.youtube.com/@DavesClassicalGuide/search?query=boult
Quote from: Daverz on June 09, 2025, 06:07:42 PMI don't think it's fair to say Hurwitz is dismissive of Boult. Here's the description of his "Top 10 Boult recordings" video:
He's also covered a lot of Boult's Decca, EMI and Lyrita recordings in separate videos. If not much non-British repertoire is covered, I think that's more the fault of the record labels Boult worked with.
https://www.youtube.com/@DavesClassicalGuide/search?query=boult
Fair enough - ok thanks :)
Quote from: Der lächelnde Schatten on June 09, 2025, 12:51:58 PMHe is good friends with Slatkin, so that's why he always speaks so highly of him.
Interesting to know. I do like many Slatkin recordings. (Shostakovich, Bernstein, Rachmaninov etc)
Quote from: vandermolen on June 09, 2025, 10:48:11 PMInteresting to know. I do like many Slatkin recordings. (Shostakovich, Bernstein, Rachmaninov etc)
His Vaughan Williams is also great IMO, I put his cycle at third after Boult and Previn. Well I guess fourth, since Boult made two different outstanding cycles.
Quote from: DavidW on June 10, 2025, 07:06:11 AMHis Vaughan Williams is also great IMO, I put his cycle at third after Boult and Previn. Well I guess fourth, since Boult made two different outstanding cycles.
Previn and Boult are huge gaps for me in whatever they conducted.
Bad Fox *spanks self*
Quote from: DavidW on June 10, 2025, 07:06:11 AMHis Vaughan Williams is also great IMO, I put his cycle at third after Boult and Previn. Well I guess fourth, since Boult made two different outstanding cycles.
David et al - is this the Previn set from the '70s that you're ranking toward the top? Dave
(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/71uv7VdRBqL._SL1111_.jpg)
Quote from: SonicMan46 on June 11, 2025, 03:37:48 PMDavid et al - is this the Previn set from the '70s that you're ranking toward the top? Dave
(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/71uv7VdRBqL._SL1111_.jpg)
You didn't ask me, but Previn's Rachmaninov is excellent.
Previn also recorded 2 & 3 for RCA. At the back of my mind later in his career for Teldec too.
Quote from: Der lächelnde Schatten on June 11, 2025, 06:44:12 PMYou didn't ask me, but Previn's Rachmaninov is excellent.
Well,
et al includes you and anyone else who cares to respond - thanks. :laugh: Dave
Quote from: Irons on June 11, 2025, 11:20:57 PMPrevin also recorded 2 & 3 for RCA. At the back of my mind later in his career for Teldec too.
I think you meant Telarc and, yes, Previn only made one Rachmaninov recording for this label:
(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/71AxcPOZGmL._SL1200_.jpg)
Quote from: SonicMan46 on June 11, 2025, 03:37:48 PMDavid et al - is this the Previn set from the '70s that you're ranking toward the top? Dave
(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/71uv7VdRBqL._SL1111_.jpg)
I was actually talking about RVW. But Previn is my favorite second.
Quote from: Der lächelnde Schatten on June 12, 2025, 06:47:10 AMI think you meant Telarc and, yes, Previn only made one Rachmaninov recording for this label:
(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/71AxcPOZGmL._SL1200_.jpg)
Of the earlier RCA recordings No.2 was of the (then) standard cut version and No.3 has curiously never made it to CD as far as I know but can be found on YouTube.....
it sounds rather brash as a recording but I haven't listened to it all the way through yet.